Well, we knew that was coming
Shocking
TIL it's a sacred privilege to overheat, get yeast infections, and not be able to wear any current styles
Yay!
Edit to add: As a woman, I was lucky in that I never had any problems with the garment, although i knew many women who did get the yeast infections etc
Then I hit my 40s. Whoa. Peri menopause and garments are a toxic combination. This is why we need women in leadership. Not one of the people writing these questions or making these rules has ever had a hot flash.
They have no idea what it feels like when your body decides to be an oven and you have an extra layer on your skin. It is not a sacred privilege. It is hell
I too was lucky in not having health problems due to garments, but man was shopping demoralizing. Not even because I wanted to wear "immodest" styles. But when you already struggle to find clothes you feel good in, discovering your sleeve is just that tiny 1/8" too short, or that neckline is just 1/5" too wide.... it is such a blow. The men in charge have no idea how hard it is for women to dress for garments.
More than that, they *like it.* It forces you to think about the church constantly, while making you feel alienated from “the world.” Same principle behind the coffee ban.
It's funny my endroconologist told me to drink coffee for my diabetes 2 and I have not taken insulin since last December my blood sugar has been normal
>they *like it.*
That's an interesting perspective. Maybe they put all these strict rules because they are super fans of the religion (Who can blame them? The religion put *them* in charge!)
The trouble is, the more they tried to build a religion that they like, versus one that everybody else likes, the more people grow discomforted and leave.
I wish I could find it, but someone posted a link on this sub about women’s clothing and garments. It looked at a sample of 8,160 items from Macy’s.com, and it found that less than 8% of the sample would be appropriate with garments. That’s ridiculous.
Edited to correct the details of the By Common Consent blog post that discussed this issue.
The blog post is mentioned in the SLTrib article from two weeks ago about the church doubling down on garments. The article [was posted on this sub.](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/u2quYkEx5x)
When I was a member, I used to dream of opening a clothing store that sold only clothing that could cover garments. I bet it would have been a big hit.
There were however MLMs that TBM women joined that sold shirts that were made to be worn in layers: that multi-layered "modest" look that was all the rage like 10 or so years ago.
If there's any Mormon clothing that is going to be marketed, I think the people starting will always go with the MLM approach and market to TBM SAHMs to "be your own boss", so the upline always gets the guaranteed money, but those are the bottom rung downline have to recruit and sell like mad to make money, or even recoup the losses for the package they bought in order to "start their own business". I don't think a modest TBM fashion line would ever be in it for the women's sake, it is just to exploit them and their money for trying to be good members, like always. 😕😮💨😓 Men get to go to stores for clothes and women get to wear clothes that they don't like or have to pay dearly to get clothes catered to their religion. It's so messed up. I don't see men's clothing and bodies being policed, limited (what works from stores and/or clothes the women would actually want), or made to pay extra for more freedom (choice selection).
I finally found it. It’s from a SL Tribune article from a couple of weeks ago that someone [posted here](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/u2quYkEx5x). If you don’t have a subscription, just scroll down: someone copied and pasted the article into the comments.
I totally misremembered the numbers. According to the article, someone from By Common Consent did a blog post about trying to find appropriate clothes that cover garments. The writer went to the Macy’s website in an attempt to find dresses that would work with garments. Of 8,160 items, only 619 (~8%) would work with garments. It dropped down to only about 4% of items if someone was looking for a formal dress.
I keep telling people they should be free, and they're like... what?
I'm like..FREE. if you have to wear the magic underwear, they have to provide it. Also temple clothing needs to be FREE
"You can ask your bishop for help if you can't afford them"
FREE. I'm not talking to my bishop about my underwear budget
"But, it costs money to make them'
FREE
Then i switch to cash registers in the temple and they get quiet about that, too
"The church used to be broke, that's why!"
Well it isn't now. FREE FREE FREE
>Cash registers in a temple? Imagine what Jesus would say. Flipping tables all around
Dude you're so right. I never thought about this, but that's hugely ironic
I was so surprised when I found out I had to pay for them when they were required. Like, y'all are taking so much tithe money from me, I surely should get REQUIRED underwear for free.
If you have to give 10% of your income for the privilege of covenanting to wear it, it shouldn't be that hard for the church to provide it.
On another note, am I the only one who wondered how President Hinckley could just slash the garment cost in half? I always assumed we were charged nothing more than how much it cost them to make it because otherwise, how could that be morally justified?
Cash registers in the temple, where the holy presence of god gets to share space with only the holiest of institutions such as... *checks notes* mastercard, VISA and paypal.
Holy, indeed.
There is also a very significant hidden cost in buying garments - at least for the first time: tithing has to be paid for a long enough amount of time to get the 'recommend', so that people can go to the temple. so that they can get endowed and receive their garments.
I wish the MFMC still required full length garments, then members would’ve had more protection compared to now. Whoever decided to go shorts and shirt style must not’ve cared about their safety and spiritual well being because members are now more exposed than ever before. /s
Nothing in the "covenant" states their colour, design, origin, or material.
Make small patches with the symbols and attach to clothing that works.
If the military can have green or tan garments ...
My endowed Mom and Sister have both gotten yeast infections... I never have. I also never wore garments. They both were shocked and told me I was wrong when I told them yeast infections were a frequent complaint... caused by garments. 'They must have been wearing the wrong kind!' Sigh.
I’m so glad I ditched garments before experiencing pregnancy and breastfeeding. Your body is already so uncomfortable and all your clothing is already in the way; I can’t imagine adding a fussy layer to that.
God, I wish the qualifier for question 12 “*This question is omitted when interviewing a child or youth*” applied to asking about the law of chastity too 🙃🙃
I noticed that same thing and it made my stomach hurt. How far gone (or straight up perverted) do you have to be to ask a child about their sexual activity??
I don't think they omitted that question when I first got my temple recommend. I vaguely remember them asking me that and having no idea what that meant. I think they accidentally asked me that, but I don't really remember. That was almost 10 years ago
Oh I definitely got asked that as well when I was turning 12. I remember the bishopric member being as uncomfortable as I when he asked. I just can’t believe they revamped it but kept that question in, in this day and age.
Only if you wear the "sacred garment of the Holy Priesthood" will you qualify for blessings, magic wishes, grace (from an all-loving God who puts qualifiers on everything), and magic beans to plant so you can rise up in the last day and see the bearded dragon, and the sacred harp."
Can it get any more ridiculous? To put your trust in shit rags?
Dear SCMC,
If you are interested in following Christ, please amend these questions to the following:
1.) Do you love god?
2.) Do you love your neighbor?
Sincerely,
A PIMO desperate to get value from church, and eager to reduce harm.
Yeah those two commandments, along with caring for the poor and needy, apparently aren’t relevant to the temple.
But underwear, eating and drinking choices, and paying membership dues are.
Sorry, friend…
But don't you remember all the times Jesus emphasized loyalty in sustaining the general and local leaders? No, me neither. In fact in Matthew 23 Jesus criticized those who "sat in Moses seat" (held the Levitical priesthood) and yet openly criticized them ("do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.").
It's also interesting with all the "Nelson praise" that conference is full of that Jesus criticized the religious leaders of his day for loving public praise and being called "Rabbi" and said, "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren." -- and yet the LDS church insists on using the full name and Title for these men, *even President Russell M Nelson*.
But don't you at least remember all the times that Jesus questions what underwear or clothing people were wearing? No, me neither. In fact, in Matthew 23 he criticizes the leaders of his day who made a big deal of their religious clothing, "they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments". He did mention John the Baptist's clothing, in order to point out that "they that wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses" and that people complained about John's austerity \*and\* complained that he by contrast "came eating and drinking" and so people called him "gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners". (Matthew 11)
This is a great comment. Sadly I can only imagine a ridiculous apologetics excuse to each one from my TBM family, completely ignoring the cognitive dissonance their own church creates by teaching both the Bible and coming up with their own BS.
And also: don't answer out loud. Just ponder to yourself. No one has the right to judge your spiritual walk. NO ONE.
Then one last question: do you want a recommend to go do Masonic cosplay in a great and spacious building? Yes? Here ya go. No? Good choice! You're growing closer to God/the universe/your inner strength. I commend you for your integrity.
The full SEC order put out on the church for their 1st presidency direcred 20+yr fraud and the floodlit.org website make it very clear that members who stay are only helping a dangerous organization stay afloat.
Sure they can:
How much love do you have for god? 1-5
How much love do you have for your neighbor? 1-5
or (for more fun)
How many gods do you love?
How many neighbors do you love?
/s in case that wasn’t apparent.
When did it become the garment of the holy priesthood? That wasn’t the way the clarifying statement was written before. Is this so women have “the priesthood” too?/s
This is my exact thought. Even if it's mentioned in the temple, it was still a little vague what they represented. I thought it was the coat of skins they wore after getting cast out of the garden. They're emphasizing THE GARMENT OF THE HOLY PRIESTHOOD now so that women will think that they are wearing the much-coveted priesthood. Such pandering. They must think we're five.
I guess they're also now emphasizing SEEK TO RESTORE IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE after you remove them. You've finished that 10K? RESTORE YOUR GARMENTS! You just got out of the shower? RESTORE YOUR GARMENTS! You just spent an hour losing your Gs in the sheets with your spouse? RESTORE YOUR GARMENTS!
\[My all-caps quota for the second quarter of 2024 has been filled.\]
ETA: In the Gospel Library general conference section, "garment of the holy priesthood" in quotes only pulls up one conference talk in 2024. "Garment of the priesthood" in quotes pulls up two conference talks, one in 2019 (by Nelson) and one in 2022 by Jean B. Bingham, quoting the 2019 talk by Nelson.
So all of this "garment of the holy priesthood" talk is just another Mormon jingoism created by Nelson to guilt people to pay tithing.
Previous wording, for comparison:
>[Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?](https://www.thechurchnews.com/2019/10/6/23215540/general-conference-october-2019-temple-recommend-questions/)
As I recall, the endowment actually does not give instructions regarding the garments.
*As I recall, the endowment actually does not give instructions regarding the garments.*
Bingo!! Now they are just a policy change away from having the garment be used only in the temple. Because NO WHERE in the temple do you 'put your arm to the square' and 'covenant' to wear those ugly things. NO WHERE!!
Clearly the lawyers are in charge, because it's so carefully worded.
It used to imply that it was a covenant. Now they admit it's not, but try to guilt it a different way by saying it's basically the same as the sacrament and represents Jesus.
Oh, I forgot/was already out when they asked if you wear the garment. So they're trying to soften the language because it's not actually a covenant. Fortunately, one can "honor the privilege" by just thinking "yes, it is my privilege" without actually wearing or doing anything with the garment. Like, mushing garments into the mud is dishonoring the garment, I don't know how you can dishonor a privilege as an individual, only the church can dishonor your privilege by telling you what you can do.
My parents have always been hardcore garment enforcers and speculators. Literally anytime someone would post a picture online or wear a tank top, they would speculate about if they had left the church because “they obviously aren’t wearing their garments”. Even as a young very TBM teenager and young adult I would challenge them on this, I’d ask why it was such a big deal, and why they cared so much, the response always was and always has been, “they are breaking there covenants, it’s a really big deal”. I never heard anything when I went to the temple about making a covenant to wear the garment, always just that it represents the covenants you made. So then I started to challenge them on the point that someone could be fully living their “McCovenants™️” and not wearing their garments, that totally reasonable and logical argument always got them painted into a corner and they never had a good response. There is no covenant made to wear the special underwear.
I never remember being told the temple veil was symbolic of Jesus.
I'm seeing some recent search results that mention it, but the guide to the scriptures hasn't caught up yet:
Veil A word used in the scriptures to mean (1) a divider separating areas of the tabernacle or temple, (2) a symbol for a separation between God and man, (3) a thin cloth worn by people to cover their face or head, or (4) a God-given forgetfulness that blocks people’s memories of the premortal existence.
I am so tired of this never ending cycle of shoving things down the memory hole when it suits them.
Veil = Jesus is simply bending their doctrine to fit the needs of the garment letter. No one was ever taught this. This isn’t even a formal teaching anywhere. They literally pulled that shit out of a hat to guilt and gaslight members about wearing their *Pantaloons by J Smith*.
Yeah, from what I remember of 35 years of church, garments are symbolic of the covenants we made in the temple. They are not symbolic of Jesus. Or the veil. And the veil has never, to my knowledge, been a symbol of Jesus. I was confused to read that.
I assume that they want to pretend the temple is more Jesus-centered. It is more palatable to say “garments are to remind you of Jesus” than it is to say “garments are to remind you of the promises you made to us.”
If it makes y'all feel any better, I'm a NeverMo and \*I\* was surprised when I read that. Every person I've heard talk about the endowment described the veil as symbolic of the afterlife. 🤔
I always envisioned the veil as the transformation from life to death. For example we are alive… we die and that process of moving to a new realm or new physical form is what the veil represents. The person behind the veil giving the signs and tokens I always envisioned to be Jesus Christ or God.
It’s more absurd the further I distance myself from it. Nowhere ever did they ever tell us Veil = Jesus Christ = Garments. I feel like I’m living in a twilight zone where they just make stuff up on a whim to justify their end goal.
I mean, it's OBVIOUS isn't it? You know, when you go to the veil for a certain set of vain repetitions and the temple worker represents THE LORD on the other side of himself and after you get everything exactly right including the new secret special name that no one knows except the person who receives it but is also the same name given to every other person of the same gender on that day then THE LORD reaches through himself and then pulls you through himself to get to his presence in the Celestial Kingdom which incidentally you can't actually get to without at least 3 wives so we're just pretending for now but it sure is peaceful there! And by the way GTFO because we have another batch of patrons headed this way in about 5 minutes.
/s
None of the veil stuff even makes sense symbolically if the veil is Jesus. You reach through Jesus and give the signs? And then you’re allowed to go past Jesus into heaven? What?
Apparently Jesus is the thing that separates you from God's presence. And the garment does that too, since it represents the veil, which represents Jesus.
🤷♀️
I mean, the *tearing* of the temple veil at Christ's death was symbolic of his overcoming death and sin.
...so should we be tearing garments off WWE-style if we really want to follow him?
I wanna know what these chuds are smoking.
I can’t remember for sure, but don’t they explicitly say in the endowment that the temple worker behind the veil represents Jesus? The veil itself is definitely not a symbol of Jesus.
What a joke. Greater access? What does that even mean? They now control how much mercy Jesus can give me? They control how much power or strength I can receive from Christ? I have to pay them for the super premium package of Jesus power??
I just wonder how they measure it. What does “greater access” look like, compared to “less access”? The Savior dispenses his mercy, protection, strength, and power only at certain times or hours? If you’re wearing garments, you’re closer to the front of the line as he is measuring out the mercy? Like a line at the soup kitchen, hope you get to the front before the soup runs out?
And here I thought the Savior’s mercy was infinite. Silly me.
Wear the garment unless it cannot possibly be avoided then it must be restored.
Carthage jail anyone?
People are being made to wear this because Joseph didn't.
…and we all know how *that* turned out. 100% of lds prophets who weren’t wearing their gs, died when involved in a gunfight. 0% of lds prophets have been shot to death while wearing their gs.
So…
Notice how they are no longer using language that we covenanted to wear the garment and admitting that we were just told we had to wear it. They are listening to us 🙄.
“…that veil is symbolic of Jesus Christ.”
Welp…that’s some bullshit. It’s not, in any way, a symbol of Jesus Christ.
But…it *is* because we say so. Bow your head, and say “yes.”
So their plan is to get kids endowed at 18 before a wedding or mission call, then double-down on strict garment wearing.
Oh boy, that's going to work SO well on GenZ...
I am forever grateful that I am no longer a member of this weird, uncomfortable church. The fact that I never ever ever have to feel obligated to answer any of those questions for the rest of my life is so freeing.
I think the best thing about leaving the church is never being obligated to attend or do anything I don't want to. There aren't any sins, my thoughts are my own, my decisions don't need confessions for normal behaviors, and I can wear whatever the hell I want.
Seriously for anybody who's on the line and wondering whether or not you should leave, you 100% should because it's not easy but it is the BEST feeling in the entire world when you look back and go "I don't have to do that anymore."
Same. I can’t describe the amount of relief I feel knowing that I don’t have to be part of this anymore.
So much peace and joy is on the other side for those who are brave enough to take the leap. To any lurkers on the fence- it’s not easy, but it is absolutely worth it.
1-4: Do you support this POS of an organization?
A: No.
5: Will you live in shame for being a normal person?
A: No.
6: Do you try to be a good person? (as taught by any religion, philosopher, parent, mentor, or just plain common sense)
A: Of course!
7: Are you trying to help yourself and others by discussing and sharing publicly available information on r/exmornon and/or other forums?
A: Hell Yes!
8: Will you prioritize this POS of an organization over your family, friends, and self, at the expense of their and your own well-being?
A: Fuck No!
9: Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?
A: Yes. That’s why I had to stop supporting the church.
10: Do you keep giving us money that you could probably use better than we can?
A: Fuck No!
11: Do you deprive yourself of life’s simple pleasures because some old fart told you it’s “bad”?
A: Not anymore.
12: Do you meet your obligations to people who depend on you?
A: I try to exceed them.
13: Do you let us have power over you?
A: No Fucking Way!
14: Can I check your underwear?
A: WTF?!?!?!
15: Got any nasty stories for me?
A: ….
16: Are you a robot like the Organization wants you to be?
A: I’m so out of here!
That garment statement reads like a committee of chatbots wrote it:
"The garment is like the veil. It's also a symbol of Christ. It's also an outward thing of an inward things. It's also a symbol of your covenants."
Wow! Garments of the priesthood, now with extra mercy! Try some today.
Seriously, I thought everyone could get mercy from Jesus? But now you get even MORE mercy if wesd garments?
Wearing garments is about control. The church wants to control most aspects of our lives. The geographic area (ward boundary) where we attend church. What we drink, what we wear, how many ear pearcings, tattoos, money, time, entertainment, who we date, who we marry, where we marry, even the underware, and what clothing we are dressed in after we die.
I will always post this when the church gets more strict:
Good! Let them remind all the “I follow my own version of Mormonism” millennials that it’s a binary church. You’re all in and obedient to the dear leaders’ whims, you’re you’re fucking out.
We’ll welcome you heathens, in your underwear of choice, with open arms.
I wore freakish, horrendous garments for around 35 years: I don’t remember equating them symbolically with Jesus Christ. Obviously, they are symbolic of the curtain veil in the temples with the Masonic imagery sewn in. Did I miss something?
I’m with you. I wore them until I was age 32 and I was never told the veil represents Jesus Christ. I thought the “man behind the veil” represented Jesus Christ. It’s sort of hilarious to me that I’ve been a member for 40+ years and try they throw stuff like this in as if it were everyday knowledge for lifelong LDS members. Must have missed the memo after a decade of attending the temple.
Was a woman assigned to give the whiney voice talk about garment wearing last week in GC?
I can’t believe it was coincidence, obviously this new TR question and statement have been in the works.
Do you think they hoped a woman’s voice would soften the message?
>The garment of the holy priesthood reminds us of the veil in the temple, and that veil is symbolic of Jesus Christ.
Lol what? Since when? That makes no sense at all.
Exactly.
I never remember being told the temple veil was symbolic of Jesus.
I'm seeing some recent search results that mention it, but the guide to the scriptures hasn't caught up yet:
Veil A word used in the scriptures to mean (1) a divider separating areas of the tabernacle or temple, (2) a symbol for a separation between God and man, (3) a thin cloth worn by people to cover their face or head, or (4) a God-given forgetfulness that blocks people’s memories of the premortal existence.
I am so tired of this never ending cycle of shoving things down the memory hole when it suits them.
I'm willing to bet they have done extensive research and interviews into the people leaving and what were some of the first steps they took away from the church. I bet that not wearing garments is one of those first baby steps. If they can convince you to wear those, they can convince you to stay and pay. This rejuvenation of garment policy is a direct response to their dwindling numbers.
How does wearing white underwear give someone "greater access to the savior's mercy, protection, strength, and power?"
That is a blatant, unveiled cult control mechanism. I can't believe there are people who are gullible enough to devote their lives to this nonsense.
"...they will have greater access to..."
So apparently God runs his show like every other shitty MLM on earth? Like he's there conditionally doling out blessings, saying, "oh sorry. Your subscription level doesn't grant you access to that level of mercy and protection. Perhaps if you wore this other kind of underwear, I could help you out..." what utter bullshit.
I think that beyond wanting more money, these new crackdowns on garments are a direct consequence of their choice a couple of years ago, when they created new wording in the For The Strength of Youth Manual. They wanted to give youth "more autonomy" in what they wore, by saying. "Hey youth, You can choose what it means to be modest and I'm *sure* you'll make the right decisions \*wink\*wink\*"
I think it backfired spectacularly. Just based on what I've seen the youth took it and ran. Now there was less doctrinal basis for the old men in the ward or the seminary/institute teachers or parents to judge you for wearing what literally everyone else in high school or college is wearing. (It was legitimately such a problem, and it's crazy to me how much mormons have problems with shoulders and legs). Anyways, I think that freedom of wearing what you wanted to started infecting other people besides youth. Particularly those who were newly endowed, or married super young, where all of their peers are still wearing fashionable, and weather appropriate clothing, and they're stuck in jeans in 100+ degrees.
Obviously it would be such terrible PR for the church to change the manual back. So instead, they're enforcing modesty in a different and much worse way, by connecting it to "salvation". Autonomy has been ripped away from the infantilized members of the church once again. (Also, has anyone else noticed the age for endowments getting younger and younger?)
I would like to point out that the garments can "be removed for activities that cannot reasonably be done while wearing the garment," and also that LIFE cannot reasonably be done while wearing the garment.
Seeing those questions in print just drives home how "worthiness" is really just about obedience to the church. The only value there is honesty which is very hypocritical coming from them.
Fun's over kids! Night and day garment wearing is back!
Me: dear Jesus. I'm really struggling right now. Please give me more of your mercy, protection, strength, and power.
Jesus: whatcha wearing under there, huh?
Ah yes, reinforcement of the old adage from Christ: outward expressions of your inner commitment.
Oh wait, just kidding. That was the Pharisees and the Sadducees who did that and Christ despised them since they were hypocrites.
Greater access to the Savior’s mercy? What the fuck does that mean?
So let me get this straight, your position is that Jesus has more mercy for the .001% of the population who wear garments (any by church doctrine are already on the straight and narrow path) than those who don’t (and who are arguably lost and in greater need of mercy)?
How exactly is that Christlike?
🤦♂️
Now that we can see that the “recommend questions” can easily be changed, when are they going to address question # 10? Remove the temple ban on the poor. Today. Not tomorrow. Delete that evil question.
This is how the church used to do things. It was 10% on your increase, i.e., your extra income after expenses. The poor who were on welfare and the like? Yeah, they paid no tithing on their income as they had no increase. The fact that they managed to shift the debate around what "increase" means to a question of pre or post tax income is absolutely pernicious.
Have any of them (other than Uchtdorf) ever been poor, like actually poor?
Didn't think so. No one who's ever experienced (or even seen actual poverty IRL) would ever fault a single mother (or father) for not paying tithing.
Or choosing food over tithing. Yet the wealthy elite, our “dear leaders,” absolutely and unequivocally demand it. No exceptions. It’s wrong and it’s evil.
lol, “honor your sacred privilege…” that’s the same language they use when telling their underpaid employees how _bLeSsEd_ they are to have the _pRiVeLeGe_ of working there, which somehow makes up for dollars not given. They’ll talk all day long about honoring the widow’s mite, but it’s just cheap lip service.
Can’t believe I ever submitted to the pretend authority of these assholes.
Interesting that the question about honest has changed from: “Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow men”. To “Do you strive to be honest?”. Evidently garment wearing is an absolute. Truth telling , just try your best. I fucking hate these people.
You know what just occurred to me? When I stopped wearing my garments…not a single damn thing changed. So either the savior’s mercy, protection, strength, and power are overrated…or it’s a bunch of hooey.
Upcoming question “Garments are a sacred symbol of Jesus Christ. Have you ripped any massive farts into your garments, thereby symbolizing the busting of ass onto our beloved Savior?”
How sneaky, it's now about wearing the garment as instructed, instead of including it in a sentence about keeping your covenants, thereby making everyone think it was a covenant. Now they are clearing up that it is not.
P.S. The word of wisdom is also explicitly *not* a covenant as written in D&C.
"Do you honor your sacred privilege to wear the polygamy pantaloons that Joe plagiarized to mark his buddies in his secret polygamy cult?"
Fixed that question for them...
It just blows my mind that as members are obviously struggling to take this stuff seriously, the church decides to double down on....magic! Covenants, temple, garments, priesthood - it's all fucking magic! They have a trove of wisdom to pull from in Christianity to help members be better, kinder people, and truly be a force for good in the world. But nope. They're gonna hammer us about our white ninja magic.
If there were an afterlife, I bet Joe Smith would be so happy to know that people are still wearing the cult underwear he created (of course, with many modifications since the 1800s) along with the plagiarized symbols.
Are you honest in all that you do? You know do you form shell companies to hide assets because that’s totally cool but I’m afraid lying about what time you can home is unacceptable
Oh my god! Nothing says cult like hyper focusing on people’s underwear!! I’m glad there’s no other problems in the world that the church could try to focus on to resolve!!! Assholes!!
All I am really seeing here, is that the sheep are not hitting the sales metrics for the cheaply made G's.
There has been enough of a downturn in profits that it is hitting the Prophets wallets.
This has triggered the Pharisees into pulling out the sales tactics.
You are not worthy of anything if you don't buy what we tell you makes you worthy.
Here I thought Jesus was for realizes when He "paid in full" at Easter. Didn't these guys just push Easter harder in SLC?
Wild how this is exactly the opposite of anything related to Jesus.
I mean, he trashed a Temple up for EXACTLY this kind of shill game.
Matthew 21:12–17, Mark 11:15–19, and Luke 19:45–48 and at the top of the Gospel of John, 2:13–16
Den of Thieves, I see you.
“You will have more access to the Savior’s mercy” ONLY if you wear your garments??? WTF? I thought he was “all merciful?”
That’s a wild statement and what it insinuates is that he’s withholding a special portion of his mercy from everyone on earth that isn’t wearing garments…? That is such a ridiculous claim to make and expecting that to coexist quietly with their other claims that say he’s already all merciful to all of gods children is nuts??
The god they’re selling does NOT sound like an all-loving, all-merciful god to me
The ONLY question the needs asking on here is 16. They should not care about a single other thing than if you yourself think you are ok to go in the temple
I wonder if this will affect people who are already not wearing them? Or will they just answer, "yes," and not worry about it? Or will we have more stories on here in the coming months from women who were called out by bishops who were paying too much attention to their underwear (or lack thereof)?
Genuinely so glad I was wanting to get tf outta the church by the time came around for me to get a temple recommend, I truly forgot how God awful these questions are 😩 Lied through my teeth every time I got asked these and didn't burn alive while doing baptisms for the dead so I think I'm alright lmfao
The last part of the garment paragraph is super culty: "you will have greater access to the Savior's mercy, protection, strength, and power. "
I guess one of the "plain and precious truths" lost during the apostasy was Jesus's teachings about how only the elite, tithe paying, temple going members get the super special powers of the gospel.
We exmos tend to like the details. Like the changes, the garments, the tithing.
But step back. How WEIRD is it that there is even a list of questions?!?! A list! Of questions!
It makes you wonder. I'm glad I woke up. The last time I had a temple recommend interview a man in the Bishopric stared at my chest while asking me about my underwear. I was DONE. I went home and took them off for good. No man is going to ask me about my underwear ever again and no man is going to tell me what to put on my body. If Jesus doesn't like that he knows where I am. But I'm 100% certain if he came knocking he would not care what was under my clothes!
Sooo, I live in Morridor and I see both men & women out doing yard work it tank tops, no tops (men) and shorty shorts. Not sure if they are pissed off, did not listen to conference, or don't care or all of it.
The MFMC can stick it!
Well, we knew that was coming Shocking TIL it's a sacred privilege to overheat, get yeast infections, and not be able to wear any current styles Yay! Edit to add: As a woman, I was lucky in that I never had any problems with the garment, although i knew many women who did get the yeast infections etc Then I hit my 40s. Whoa. Peri menopause and garments are a toxic combination. This is why we need women in leadership. Not one of the people writing these questions or making these rules has ever had a hot flash. They have no idea what it feels like when your body decides to be an oven and you have an extra layer on your skin. It is not a sacred privilege. It is hell
I too was lucky in not having health problems due to garments, but man was shopping demoralizing. Not even because I wanted to wear "immodest" styles. But when you already struggle to find clothes you feel good in, discovering your sleeve is just that tiny 1/8" too short, or that neckline is just 1/5" too wide.... it is such a blow. The men in charge have no idea how hard it is for women to dress for garments.
They know it’s difficult to find clothing that fits garments. They. Just. Don’t. Care.
More than that, they *like it.* It forces you to think about the church constantly, while making you feel alienated from “the world.” Same principle behind the coffee ban.
It's funny my endroconologist told me to drink coffee for my diabetes 2 and I have not taken insulin since last December my blood sugar has been normal
>they *like it.* That's an interesting perspective. Maybe they put all these strict rules because they are super fans of the religion (Who can blame them? The religion put *them* in charge!) The trouble is, the more they tried to build a religion that they like, versus one that everybody else likes, the more people grow discomforted and leave.
lol they wish they could get more women to stay at home and sew modest clothes to fit over the Jesus Jammie’s.
I wish I could find it, but someone posted a link on this sub about women’s clothing and garments. It looked at a sample of 8,160 items from Macy’s.com, and it found that less than 8% of the sample would be appropriate with garments. That’s ridiculous. Edited to correct the details of the By Common Consent blog post that discussed this issue. The blog post is mentioned in the SLTrib article from two weeks ago about the church doubling down on garments. The article [was posted on this sub.](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/u2quYkEx5x)
When I was a member, I used to dream of opening a clothing store that sold only clothing that could cover garments. I bet it would have been a big hit.
I’m surprised there isn’t a store like that already, because it would make a lot of profit!
There were however MLMs that TBM women joined that sold shirts that were made to be worn in layers: that multi-layered "modest" look that was all the rage like 10 or so years ago. If there's any Mormon clothing that is going to be marketed, I think the people starting will always go with the MLM approach and market to TBM SAHMs to "be your own boss", so the upline always gets the guaranteed money, but those are the bottom rung downline have to recruit and sell like mad to make money, or even recoup the losses for the package they bought in order to "start their own business". I don't think a modest TBM fashion line would ever be in it for the women's sake, it is just to exploit them and their money for trying to be good members, like always. 😕😮💨😓 Men get to go to stores for clothes and women get to wear clothes that they don't like or have to pay dearly to get clothes catered to their religion. It's so messed up. I don't see men's clothing and bodies being policed, limited (what works from stores and/or clothes the women would actually want), or made to pay extra for more freedom (choice selection).
Wow! I'd love to find that.
I finally found it. It’s from a SL Tribune article from a couple of weeks ago that someone [posted here](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/u2quYkEx5x). If you don’t have a subscription, just scroll down: someone copied and pasted the article into the comments. I totally misremembered the numbers. According to the article, someone from By Common Consent did a blog post about trying to find appropriate clothes that cover garments. The writer went to the Macy’s website in an attempt to find dresses that would work with garments. Of 8,160 items, only 619 (~8%) would work with garments. It dropped down to only about 4% of items if someone was looking for a formal dress.
I bet it would be even less for plus sizes. And also at a store outside of Utah in a hot climate.
They don’t care, also more to judge us women by if they “show” or we have to roll something up to keep them from showing.
Infection and sweat for the Lord!
It's a sacred privilege to pay $100 for $20 underwear produced by church slaves.
I keep telling people they should be free, and they're like... what? I'm like..FREE. if you have to wear the magic underwear, they have to provide it. Also temple clothing needs to be FREE "You can ask your bishop for help if you can't afford them" FREE. I'm not talking to my bishop about my underwear budget "But, it costs money to make them' FREE Then i switch to cash registers in the temple and they get quiet about that, too "The church used to be broke, that's why!" Well it isn't now. FREE FREE FREE
Cash registers in a temple? Imagine what Jesus would say. Flipping tables all around
>Cash registers in a temple? Imagine what Jesus would say. Flipping tables all around Dude you're so right. I never thought about this, but that's hugely ironic
I felt weird about it as a TBM and so did pretty much everyone I talked to about it
I was so surprised when I found out I had to pay for them when they were required. Like, y'all are taking so much tithe money from me, I surely should get REQUIRED underwear for free.
We gave them 10%. You're completely right.
Good news: The church is now providing the garments! Bad news: Your tithe is now an twentithe.
If you have to give 10% of your income for the privilege of covenanting to wear it, it shouldn't be that hard for the church to provide it. On another note, am I the only one who wondered how President Hinckley could just slash the garment cost in half? I always assumed we were charged nothing more than how much it cost them to make it because otherwise, how could that be morally justified?
China
Cash registers in the temple, where the holy presence of god gets to share space with only the holiest of institutions such as... *checks notes* mastercard, VISA and paypal. Holy, indeed.
There is also a very significant hidden cost in buying garments - at least for the first time: tithing has to be paid for a long enough amount of time to get the 'recommend', so that people can go to the temple. so that they can get endowed and receive their garments.
$2
Pulls out switchblade comb
TWO. DOLLARS.
Hoarsely, “I want my two dollars.”
4 weeks, twenty papers. That's 2 dollars. Plus tip.
Just think of the poor women when the garments were still a one-piece going from ankles till armwrists.
I wish the MFMC still required full length garments, then members would’ve had more protection compared to now. Whoever decided to go shorts and shirt style must not’ve cared about their safety and spiritual well being because members are now more exposed than ever before. /s
Not to mention the spiritual benefits. As in, many more people would be leaving the church . . .
It might protect from a sunburn, if the the heatstroke doesn't kill you first.
Nothing in the "covenant" states their colour, design, origin, or material. Make small patches with the symbols and attach to clothing that works. If the military can have green or tan garments ...
A thong with the symbols of the holy covenant 🤔
I never had a yeast infection and am so glad I threw those out in my 30s. I am now going thru menopause and cannot imagine garments!!!
Just a bit of unsolicited advice for you: try taking some sage. It really helped my hot flashes and night sweats.
My endowed Mom and Sister have both gotten yeast infections... I never have. I also never wore garments. They both were shocked and told me I was wrong when I told them yeast infections were a frequent complaint... caused by garments. 'They must have been wearing the wrong kind!' Sigh.
To be fair, this is supposed to be handed down from God. So either God is doing this intentionally or there isn’t one.
I’m so glad I ditched garments before experiencing pregnancy and breastfeeding. Your body is already so uncomfortable and all your clothing is already in the way; I can’t imagine adding a fussy layer to that.
Can confirm. Did that. It was awful. Wish i had been smarter
I can't imagine wearing a pad, then underwear, then garment, then whatever normal clothes on top.
God, I wish the qualifier for question 12 “*This question is omitted when interviewing a child or youth*” applied to asking about the law of chastity too 🙃🙃
A thousand upvotes for this
I noticed that same thing and it made my stomach hurt. How far gone (or straight up perverted) do you have to be to ask a child about their sexual activity??
I don't think they omitted that question when I first got my temple recommend. I vaguely remember them asking me that and having no idea what that meant. I think they accidentally asked me that, but I don't really remember. That was almost 10 years ago
Oh I definitely got asked that as well when I was turning 12. I remember the bishopric member being as uncomfortable as I when he asked. I just can’t believe they revamped it but kept that question in, in this day and age.
Same. I was asked at 13 if I followed the law of chastity. I nodded and my bishop said I had to say it out loud. I was sooo uncomfortable
I remember just looking confused when my bishop asked me at age 12. He didn't go into any detail, just said "you do," and moved on.
MY DEAR TBM SISTERS AND BROTHERS THIS IS A CULT. YOU ARE IN A CULT.
Only if you wear the "sacred garment of the Holy Priesthood" will you qualify for blessings, magic wishes, grace (from an all-loving God who puts qualifiers on everything), and magic beans to plant so you can rise up in the last day and see the bearded dragon, and the sacred harp." Can it get any more ridiculous? To put your trust in shit rags?
Yeah! It also goes against what Oaks just said in conference when he mentioned, "There is no Magic..."
You had me at bearded dragon.
Dear SCMC, If you are interested in following Christ, please amend these questions to the following: 1.) Do you love god? 2.) Do you love your neighbor? Sincerely, A PIMO desperate to get value from church, and eager to reduce harm.
Yeah those two commandments, along with caring for the poor and needy, apparently aren’t relevant to the temple. But underwear, eating and drinking choices, and paying membership dues are. Sorry, friend…
But don't you remember all the times Jesus emphasized loyalty in sustaining the general and local leaders? No, me neither. In fact in Matthew 23 Jesus criticized those who "sat in Moses seat" (held the Levitical priesthood) and yet openly criticized them ("do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."). It's also interesting with all the "Nelson praise" that conference is full of that Jesus criticized the religious leaders of his day for loving public praise and being called "Rabbi" and said, "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren." -- and yet the LDS church insists on using the full name and Title for these men, *even President Russell M Nelson*. But don't you at least remember all the times that Jesus questions what underwear or clothing people were wearing? No, me neither. In fact, in Matthew 23 he criticizes the leaders of his day who made a big deal of their religious clothing, "they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments". He did mention John the Baptist's clothing, in order to point out that "they that wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses" and that people complained about John's austerity \*and\* complained that he by contrast "came eating and drinking" and so people called him "gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners". (Matthew 11)
This is a great comment. Sadly I can only imagine a ridiculous apologetics excuse to each one from my TBM family, completely ignoring the cognitive dissonance their own church creates by teaching both the Bible and coming up with their own BS.
I’ll take Top signs you might be in a cult for $300, Alex!
And also: don't answer out loud. Just ponder to yourself. No one has the right to judge your spiritual walk. NO ONE. Then one last question: do you want a recommend to go do Masonic cosplay in a great and spacious building? Yes? Here ya go. No? Good choice! You're growing closer to God/the universe/your inner strength. I commend you for your integrity.
The full SEC order put out on the church for their 1st presidency direcred 20+yr fraud and the floodlit.org website make it very clear that members who stay are only helping a dangerous organization stay afloat.
Sorry, those don't translate well into KPIs.
Sure they can: How much love do you have for god? 1-5 How much love do you have for your neighbor? 1-5 or (for more fun) How many gods do you love? How many neighbors do you love? /s in case that wasn’t apparent.
How many neighbors do you love? Well I have a pineapple on by doorstep, so....
When did it become the garment of the holy priesthood? That wasn’t the way the clarifying statement was written before. Is this so women have “the priesthood” too?/s
This is my exact thought. Even if it's mentioned in the temple, it was still a little vague what they represented. I thought it was the coat of skins they wore after getting cast out of the garden. They're emphasizing THE GARMENT OF THE HOLY PRIESTHOOD now so that women will think that they are wearing the much-coveted priesthood. Such pandering. They must think we're five. I guess they're also now emphasizing SEEK TO RESTORE IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE after you remove them. You've finished that 10K? RESTORE YOUR GARMENTS! You just got out of the shower? RESTORE YOUR GARMENTS! You just spent an hour losing your Gs in the sheets with your spouse? RESTORE YOUR GARMENTS! \[My all-caps quota for the second quarter of 2024 has been filled.\] ETA: In the Gospel Library general conference section, "garment of the holy priesthood" in quotes only pulls up one conference talk in 2024. "Garment of the priesthood" in quotes pulls up two conference talks, one in 2019 (by Nelson) and one in 2022 by Jean B. Bingham, quoting the 2019 talk by Nelson. So all of this "garment of the holy priesthood" talk is just another Mormon jingoism created by Nelson to guilt people to pay tithing.
THINK CELESTIAL! RESTORE YOUR GARMENTZ! Catchy!
Nice digging and research.
[удалено]
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Yep, this. The semi-shocking part is that they are calling it that outside of the temple, not the fact that this is its full name.
Previous wording, for comparison: >[Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?](https://www.thechurchnews.com/2019/10/6/23215540/general-conference-october-2019-temple-recommend-questions/) As I recall, the endowment actually does not give instructions regarding the garments.
*As I recall, the endowment actually does not give instructions regarding the garments.* Bingo!! Now they are just a policy change away from having the garment be used only in the temple. Because NO WHERE in the temple do you 'put your arm to the square' and 'covenant' to wear those ugly things. NO WHERE!!
Clearly the lawyers are in charge, because it's so carefully worded. It used to imply that it was a covenant. Now they admit it's not, but try to guilt it a different way by saying it's basically the same as the sacrament and represents Jesus.
Oh, I forgot/was already out when they asked if you wear the garment. So they're trying to soften the language because it's not actually a covenant. Fortunately, one can "honor the privilege" by just thinking "yes, it is my privilege" without actually wearing or doing anything with the garment. Like, mushing garments into the mud is dishonoring the garment, I don't know how you can dishonor a privilege as an individual, only the church can dishonor your privilege by telling you what you can do.
My parents have always been hardcore garment enforcers and speculators. Literally anytime someone would post a picture online or wear a tank top, they would speculate about if they had left the church because “they obviously aren’t wearing their garments”. Even as a young very TBM teenager and young adult I would challenge them on this, I’d ask why it was such a big deal, and why they cared so much, the response always was and always has been, “they are breaking there covenants, it’s a really big deal”. I never heard anything when I went to the temple about making a covenant to wear the garment, always just that it represents the covenants you made. So then I started to challenge them on the point that someone could be fully living their “McCovenants™️” and not wearing their garments, that totally reasonable and logical argument always got them painted into a corner and they never had a good response. There is no covenant made to wear the special underwear.
How the hell is the veil symbolic of Jesus? Didn't the veil in the temple in Jerusalem tear? This is the very definition of using his name in vain.
I never remember being told the temple veil was symbolic of Jesus. I'm seeing some recent search results that mention it, but the guide to the scriptures hasn't caught up yet: Veil A word used in the scriptures to mean (1) a divider separating areas of the tabernacle or temple, (2) a symbol for a separation between God and man, (3) a thin cloth worn by people to cover their face or head, or (4) a God-given forgetfulness that blocks people’s memories of the premortal existence. I am so tired of this never ending cycle of shoving things down the memory hole when it suits them.
The beauty of making shit up is that you can always make *different* shit up when it suits you. :(
Veil = Jesus is simply bending their doctrine to fit the needs of the garment letter. No one was ever taught this. This isn’t even a formal teaching anywhere. They literally pulled that shit out of a hat to guilt and gaslight members about wearing their *Pantaloons by J Smith*.
Yeah, from what I remember of 35 years of church, garments are symbolic of the covenants we made in the temple. They are not symbolic of Jesus. Or the veil. And the veil has never, to my knowledge, been a symbol of Jesus. I was confused to read that. I assume that they want to pretend the temple is more Jesus-centered. It is more palatable to say “garments are to remind you of Jesus” than it is to say “garments are to remind you of the promises you made to us.”
I was today old when I learned the veil is a symbol of Jesus. I thought the veil was symbolic of death or the divide between the living and the dead.
Me too. I’ve been a member for 40+ years and had never been told that the veil represents Jesus Christ.
Thank you for saying! They have a way of making you feel crazy!
If it makes y'all feel any better, I'm a NeverMo and \*I\* was surprised when I read that. Every person I've heard talk about the endowment described the veil as symbolic of the afterlife. 🤔
I always envisioned the veil as the transformation from life to death. For example we are alive… we die and that process of moving to a new realm or new physical form is what the veil represents. The person behind the veil giving the signs and tokens I always envisioned to be Jesus Christ or God. It’s more absurd the further I distance myself from it. Nowhere ever did they ever tell us Veil = Jesus Christ = Garments. I feel like I’m living in a twilight zone where they just make stuff up on a whim to justify their end goal.
I mean, it's OBVIOUS isn't it? You know, when you go to the veil for a certain set of vain repetitions and the temple worker represents THE LORD on the other side of himself and after you get everything exactly right including the new secret special name that no one knows except the person who receives it but is also the same name given to every other person of the same gender on that day then THE LORD reaches through himself and then pulls you through himself to get to his presence in the Celestial Kingdom which incidentally you can't actually get to without at least 3 wives so we're just pretending for now but it sure is peaceful there! And by the way GTFO because we have another batch of patrons headed this way in about 5 minutes.
/s
None of the veil stuff even makes sense symbolically if the veil is Jesus. You reach through Jesus and give the signs? And then you’re allowed to go past Jesus into heaven? What?
Apparently Jesus is the thing that separates you from God's presence. And the garment does that too, since it represents the veil, which represents Jesus. 🤷♀️
I mean, the *tearing* of the temple veil at Christ's death was symbolic of his overcoming death and sin. ...so should we be tearing garments off WWE-style if we really want to follow him? I wanna know what these chuds are smoking.
I’m today old too. We share a birthday. Awesome.
I can’t remember for sure, but don’t they explicitly say in the endowment that the temple worker behind the veil represents Jesus? The veil itself is definitely not a symbol of Jesus.
Yes! "...converse with the Lord through the veil." Not converse with the Lord through the Lord.
You have to penetrate Jesus in order to get to God, perhaps??.
Great point. Neither the veil itself nor the symbols on it represent Jesus.
I think i was taught that the veil was symbolic of the veil of forgetfulness, damn mormons keep changing the lore
"...you will have greater access to the Savior's mercy, protection, strength and power." That statement kind of sets me off. The arrogance.
What a joke. Greater access? What does that even mean? They now control how much mercy Jesus can give me? They control how much power or strength I can receive from Christ? I have to pay them for the super premium package of Jesus power??
You can chill in the VIP sinner lounge!
I just wonder how they measure it. What does “greater access” look like, compared to “less access”? The Savior dispenses his mercy, protection, strength, and power only at certain times or hours? If you’re wearing garments, you’re closer to the front of the line as he is measuring out the mercy? Like a line at the soup kitchen, hope you get to the front before the soup runs out? And here I thought the Savior’s mercy was infinite. Silly me.
This caught me too. Mormons = greater access to Jesus H Christ. You don’t have to wonder why Christians don’t accept Mormons as part of their group.
Saving this to shock my therapist ✌️
Wear the garment unless it cannot possibly be avoided then it must be restored. Carthage jail anyone? People are being made to wear this because Joseph didn't.
You can't be reasonably shot by mobs with it on, so Joseph was correct in removing it.
…and we all know how *that* turned out. 100% of lds prophets who weren’t wearing their gs, died when involved in a gunfight. 0% of lds prophets have been shot to death while wearing their gs. So…
Notice how they are no longer using language that we covenanted to wear the garment and admitting that we were just told we had to wear it. They are listening to us 🙄.
This new statement literally correlates garments with the word "protection." Yet leaders continue to gaslight that this was never taught.
In conference Oaks just said there is no magic, yet here we are...
Well yeah, it’s not magic, it’s divine power /s
“…that veil is symbolic of Jesus Christ.” Welp…that’s some bullshit. It’s not, in any way, a symbol of Jesus Christ. But…it *is* because we say so. Bow your head, and say “yes.”
This is the first time I've ever heard that. I'm confused.
Well, it is now. * turns up the gas *
So their plan is to get kids endowed at 18 before a wedding or mission call, then double-down on strict garment wearing. Oh boy, that's going to work SO well on GenZ...
I am forever grateful that I am no longer a member of this weird, uncomfortable church. The fact that I never ever ever have to feel obligated to answer any of those questions for the rest of my life is so freeing. I think the best thing about leaving the church is never being obligated to attend or do anything I don't want to. There aren't any sins, my thoughts are my own, my decisions don't need confessions for normal behaviors, and I can wear whatever the hell I want. Seriously for anybody who's on the line and wondering whether or not you should leave, you 100% should because it's not easy but it is the BEST feeling in the entire world when you look back and go "I don't have to do that anymore."
Same. I can’t describe the amount of relief I feel knowing that I don’t have to be part of this anymore. So much peace and joy is on the other side for those who are brave enough to take the leap. To any lurkers on the fence- it’s not easy, but it is absolutely worth it.
It's nice the Q-15 has an out-clause regarding honesty. They can say they "strive," and who can challenge that?
I noticed that.
Maybe people still in the church (PIMOs, etc.) should smile big at every question and nod, and say, "I strive!"
Nemo, never stop the good works you are engaged in! You are a hero!
1-4: Do you support this POS of an organization? A: No. 5: Will you live in shame for being a normal person? A: No. 6: Do you try to be a good person? (as taught by any religion, philosopher, parent, mentor, or just plain common sense) A: Of course! 7: Are you trying to help yourself and others by discussing and sharing publicly available information on r/exmornon and/or other forums? A: Hell Yes! 8: Will you prioritize this POS of an organization over your family, friends, and self, at the expense of their and your own well-being? A: Fuck No! 9: Do you strive to be honest in all that you do? A: Yes. That’s why I had to stop supporting the church. 10: Do you keep giving us money that you could probably use better than we can? A: Fuck No! 11: Do you deprive yourself of life’s simple pleasures because some old fart told you it’s “bad”? A: Not anymore. 12: Do you meet your obligations to people who depend on you? A: I try to exceed them. 13: Do you let us have power over you? A: No Fucking Way! 14: Can I check your underwear? A: WTF?!?!?! 15: Got any nasty stories for me? A: …. 16: Are you a robot like the Organization wants you to be? A: I’m so out of here!
That garment statement reads like a committee of chatbots wrote it: "The garment is like the veil. It's also a symbol of Christ. It's also an outward thing of an inward things. It's also a symbol of your covenants."
Wow! Garments of the priesthood, now with extra mercy! Try some today. Seriously, I thought everyone could get mercy from Jesus? But now you get even MORE mercy if wesd garments?
The Mormon influencers that never wear them have no room to skirt around this now 😂😂
That’s how I read it too. If you don’t wear them you aren’t getting a recommend.
Wearing garments is about control. The church wants to control most aspects of our lives. The geographic area (ward boundary) where we attend church. What we drink, what we wear, how many ear pearcings, tattoos, money, time, entertainment, who we date, who we marry, where we marry, even the underware, and what clothing we are dressed in after we die.
I will always post this when the church gets more strict: Good! Let them remind all the “I follow my own version of Mormonism” millennials that it’s a binary church. You’re all in and obedient to the dear leaders’ whims, you’re you’re fucking out. We’ll welcome you heathens, in your underwear of choice, with open arms.
Meh. I think I'd still prefer not to wear them. Thanks anyway, though!
I feel like they had a really bad quarter, so now the shareholders are pushing the magic underwear to make up lost profits.
Must control every waking thought & activity 24/7.
I wonder if all those in social media not wearing garments got to them? Most of the Mormon influencers do not wear garments.
I wore freakish, horrendous garments for around 35 years: I don’t remember equating them symbolically with Jesus Christ. Obviously, they are symbolic of the curtain veil in the temples with the Masonic imagery sewn in. Did I miss something?
I’m with you. I wore them until I was age 32 and I was never told the veil represents Jesus Christ. I thought the “man behind the veil” represented Jesus Christ. It’s sort of hilarious to me that I’ve been a member for 40+ years and try they throw stuff like this in as if it were everyday knowledge for lifelong LDS members. Must have missed the memo after a decade of attending the temple.
It totally takes out the part about seeking guidance from the Holy Spirit in how to wear them. So much for personal revelation. 🙃
Was a woman assigned to give the whiney voice talk about garment wearing last week in GC? I can’t believe it was coincidence, obviously this new TR question and statement have been in the works. Do you think they hoped a woman’s voice would soften the message?
>The garment of the holy priesthood reminds us of the veil in the temple, and that veil is symbolic of Jesus Christ. Lol what? Since when? That makes no sense at all.
Exactly. I never remember being told the temple veil was symbolic of Jesus. I'm seeing some recent search results that mention it, but the guide to the scriptures hasn't caught up yet: Veil A word used in the scriptures to mean (1) a divider separating areas of the tabernacle or temple, (2) a symbol for a separation between God and man, (3) a thin cloth worn by people to cover their face or head, or (4) a God-given forgetfulness that blocks people’s memories of the premortal existence. I am so tired of this never ending cycle of shoving things down the memory hole when it suits them.
I'm willing to bet they have done extensive research and interviews into the people leaving and what were some of the first steps they took away from the church. I bet that not wearing garments is one of those first baby steps. If they can convince you to wear those, they can convince you to stay and pay. This rejuvenation of garment policy is a direct response to their dwindling numbers.
How does wearing white underwear give someone "greater access to the savior's mercy, protection, strength, and power?" That is a blatant, unveiled cult control mechanism. I can't believe there are people who are gullible enough to devote their lives to this nonsense.
this is gonna suck for all of the progressive mormon influencers💀💀
"...they will have greater access to..." So apparently God runs his show like every other shitty MLM on earth? Like he's there conditionally doling out blessings, saying, "oh sorry. Your subscription level doesn't grant you access to that level of mercy and protection. Perhaps if you wore this other kind of underwear, I could help you out..." what utter bullshit.
I think that beyond wanting more money, these new crackdowns on garments are a direct consequence of their choice a couple of years ago, when they created new wording in the For The Strength of Youth Manual. They wanted to give youth "more autonomy" in what they wore, by saying. "Hey youth, You can choose what it means to be modest and I'm *sure* you'll make the right decisions \*wink\*wink\*" I think it backfired spectacularly. Just based on what I've seen the youth took it and ran. Now there was less doctrinal basis for the old men in the ward or the seminary/institute teachers or parents to judge you for wearing what literally everyone else in high school or college is wearing. (It was legitimately such a problem, and it's crazy to me how much mormons have problems with shoulders and legs). Anyways, I think that freedom of wearing what you wanted to started infecting other people besides youth. Particularly those who were newly endowed, or married super young, where all of their peers are still wearing fashionable, and weather appropriate clothing, and they're stuck in jeans in 100+ degrees. Obviously it would be such terrible PR for the church to change the manual back. So instead, they're enforcing modesty in a different and much worse way, by connecting it to "salvation". Autonomy has been ripped away from the infantilized members of the church once again. (Also, has anyone else noticed the age for endowments getting younger and younger?)
#6 is a real problem. How about “have you abused anyone physically, sexually or emotionally, including members of your family?”
I would like to point out that the garments can "be removed for activities that cannot reasonably be done while wearing the garment," and also that LIFE cannot reasonably be done while wearing the garment.
Seeing those questions in print just drives home how "worthiness" is really just about obedience to the church. The only value there is honesty which is very hypocritical coming from them. Fun's over kids! Night and day garment wearing is back!
Me: dear Jesus. I'm really struggling right now. Please give me more of your mercy, protection, strength, and power. Jesus: whatcha wearing under there, huh?
"I'm wearing your symbols, Lord, and I try not to pass gas in them but it just happens sometimes."
Ah yes, reinforcement of the old adage from Christ: outward expressions of your inner commitment. Oh wait, just kidding. That was the Pharisees and the Sadducees who did that and Christ despised them since they were hypocrites.
Greater access to the Savior’s mercy? What the fuck does that mean? So let me get this straight, your position is that Jesus has more mercy for the .001% of the population who wear garments (any by church doctrine are already on the straight and narrow path) than those who don’t (and who are arguably lost and in greater need of mercy)? How exactly is that Christlike? 🤦♂️
Nice Job Nemo. Back to night and day it seems.
Now that we can see that the “recommend questions” can easily be changed, when are they going to address question # 10? Remove the temple ban on the poor. Today. Not tomorrow. Delete that evil question.
Make a tithing exception for the poor, and suddenly every Mormon will be poor (because paying tithing is stupid).
This is how the church used to do things. It was 10% on your increase, i.e., your extra income after expenses. The poor who were on welfare and the like? Yeah, they paid no tithing on their income as they had no increase. The fact that they managed to shift the debate around what "increase" means to a question of pre or post tax income is absolutely pernicious.
It’s a temple ban on the poor. It’s downright evil, and the leaders know it.
Have any of them (other than Uchtdorf) ever been poor, like actually poor? Didn't think so. No one who's ever experienced (or even seen actual poverty IRL) would ever fault a single mother (or father) for not paying tithing.
Or choosing food over tithing. Yet the wealthy elite, our “dear leaders,” absolutely and unequivocally demand it. No exceptions. It’s wrong and it’s evil.
True! The rich know and use all the loopholes. They don’t do it the way “the regular members” do it.
Its funny how old men think this is going to change anything.
No mention of Joseph smith? Wow.
That’s what I noticed, too!! Back slowly away from the first true Prophet of God in almost 2000 years.
lol, “honor your sacred privilege…” that’s the same language they use when telling their underpaid employees how _bLeSsEd_ they are to have the _pRiVeLeGe_ of working there, which somehow makes up for dollars not given. They’ll talk all day long about honoring the widow’s mite, but it’s just cheap lip service.
We WISH they were like those PeeWee undies.
Get ready for the “anti underwear mandate” wave of people to leave the church. The next big thing on new exmo posts.
Can’t believe I ever submitted to the pretend authority of these assholes. Interesting that the question about honest has changed from: “Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow men”. To “Do you strive to be honest?”. Evidently garment wearing is an absolute. Truth telling , just try your best. I fucking hate these people.
They didn’t build that new expansion of the garment factory 2 years ago for you heathens to stop wearing them! 
It’s still kind of vague. I could still see Mormon moms wearing their workout fit all day and justifying it.
None of the general authorities would pass this test.
You know what just occurred to me? When I stopped wearing my garments…not a single damn thing changed. So either the savior’s mercy, protection, strength, and power are overrated…or it’s a bunch of hooey.
Absolutely laughable. Of ALL THE THINGS going on in the world right now, this is the issue the brethren are most concerned about.
Upcoming question “Garments are a sacred symbol of Jesus Christ. Have you ripped any massive farts into your garments, thereby symbolizing the busting of ass onto our beloved Savior?”
How sneaky, it's now about wearing the garment as instructed, instead of including it in a sentence about keeping your covenants, thereby making everyone think it was a covenant. Now they are clearing up that it is not. P.S. The word of wisdom is also explicitly *not* a covenant as written in D&C.
"Do you honor your sacred privilege to wear the polygamy pantaloons that Joe plagiarized to mark his buddies in his secret polygamy cult?" Fixed that question for them...
It just blows my mind that as members are obviously struggling to take this stuff seriously, the church decides to double down on....magic! Covenants, temple, garments, priesthood - it's all fucking magic! They have a trove of wisdom to pull from in Christianity to help members be better, kinder people, and truly be a force for good in the world. But nope. They're gonna hammer us about our white ninja magic.
If there were an afterlife, I bet Joe Smith would be so happy to know that people are still wearing the cult underwear he created (of course, with many modifications since the 1800s) along with the plagiarized symbols.
So much for them loosening up on garment requirement. Hahaha.
Are you honest in all that you do? You know do you form shell companies to hide assets because that’s totally cool but I’m afraid lying about what time you can home is unacceptable
As someone who sleeps naked at night guess I will not be able to get a recommend.
Oh my god! Nothing says cult like hyper focusing on people’s underwear!! I’m glad there’s no other problems in the world that the church could try to focus on to resolve!!! Assholes!!
This is going to go over as well as the ban on caffeine did back in the 70s and 80s.
All I am really seeing here, is that the sheep are not hitting the sales metrics for the cheaply made G's. There has been enough of a downturn in profits that it is hitting the Prophets wallets. This has triggered the Pharisees into pulling out the sales tactics. You are not worthy of anything if you don't buy what we tell you makes you worthy. Here I thought Jesus was for realizes when He "paid in full" at Easter. Didn't these guys just push Easter harder in SLC? Wild how this is exactly the opposite of anything related to Jesus. I mean, he trashed a Temple up for EXACTLY this kind of shill game. Matthew 21:12–17, Mark 11:15–19, and Luke 19:45–48 and at the top of the Gospel of John, 2:13–16 Den of Thieves, I see you.
Man. I failed 100% of these questions and I’m so happy for myself.
“You will have more access to the Savior’s mercy” ONLY if you wear your garments??? WTF? I thought he was “all merciful?” That’s a wild statement and what it insinuates is that he’s withholding a special portion of his mercy from everyone on earth that isn’t wearing garments…? That is such a ridiculous claim to make and expecting that to coexist quietly with their other claims that say he’s already all merciful to all of gods children is nuts?? The god they’re selling does NOT sound like an all-loving, all-merciful god to me
I’m just still sad I wasted my best body years (age 18-40) in garments.
There is no way in hell their signatures are that straight anymore.
The ONLY question the needs asking on here is 16. They should not care about a single other thing than if you yourself think you are ok to go in the temple
I wonder if this will affect people who are already not wearing them? Or will they just answer, "yes," and not worry about it? Or will we have more stories on here in the coming months from women who were called out by bishops who were paying too much attention to their underwear (or lack thereof)?
Of all the things I do not miss about the church, it was their obsession with underwear.
Genuinely so glad I was wanting to get tf outta the church by the time came around for me to get a temple recommend, I truly forgot how God awful these questions are 😩 Lied through my teeth every time I got asked these and didn't burn alive while doing baptisms for the dead so I think I'm alright lmfao
The last part of the garment paragraph is super culty: "you will have greater access to the Savior's mercy, protection, strength, and power. " I guess one of the "plain and precious truths" lost during the apostasy was Jesus's teachings about how only the elite, tithe paying, temple going members get the super special powers of the gospel.
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We exmos tend to like the details. Like the changes, the garments, the tithing. But step back. How WEIRD is it that there is even a list of questions?!?! A list! Of questions!
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It makes you wonder. I'm glad I woke up. The last time I had a temple recommend interview a man in the Bishopric stared at my chest while asking me about my underwear. I was DONE. I went home and took them off for good. No man is going to ask me about my underwear ever again and no man is going to tell me what to put on my body. If Jesus doesn't like that he knows where I am. But I'm 100% certain if he came knocking he would not care what was under my clothes!
“Sacred privilege”. Orale, more like SWEATY PRIVILEGE.
Sooo, I live in Morridor and I see both men & women out doing yard work it tank tops, no tops (men) and shorty shorts. Not sure if they are pissed off, did not listen to conference, or don't care or all of it. The MFMC can stick it!