Such a horrible tragedy! I've seen a few comments on Deseret News articles saying that this man was such a "good person". This jerk murdered his wife - not a good person!! Period!!! End of discussion!!!!
The abuse likely went on behind closed doors for their entire relationship.
And his Bishops knows/knew what was going on, you know he does.
Hopefully the bishop can be prosecuted for having knowledge of someone being in imminent danger and failing to report it.
Other redditors who knew them personally have commented that the abuse & control was obvious to anyone who knew them & that there would be “many people who will feel regret for many years to come for not doing more”. 😔 Tells us people knew. Most likely their Bishop damn well knew.
I do not know them nor have I met them however my son is friends with one of their sons & it has rocked their peer group & high school. An absolutely unnecessary tragedy.
I’m so sorry to hear this. I can’t imagine being a kid & feeling like there’s no one to help. Makes me so angry.
Truly, the (any) church is the perfect place to breed & cover up abuse. When anyone claims to have “discernment” or to speak for god, it’s an immediate red flag for me that their moral compass is fucked. Their
1st priority: protect the “good name of the church” aka no public scrutiny
2nd priority: guilt the victim into forgiving the abuser “like Christ taught” aka shut them up
I wish that wasn’t part of your story, childhood is supposed to be safe. 😔
After I was an adult, I had one of my leaders actually tell me that she knew I was getting mistreated but that no one knew how to handle it. They just wanted to keep my mom happy because she was notoriously difficult within the stake, so they fawned all over her to avoid making a scene. I feel like the message I received was that my parents were right and I was the problem. I still feel like I was an awful kid, and unworthy of friendship or love.
The thing I never understood about the "protect the good name of the church" reaction: wouldn't the best way to protect the good name of the church be to build a reputation for reporting abusers?
Same. And the excuse is always “(abuser) is mentally ill, she can’t help it. We wouldn’t punish someone for having a physical illness.”
The mental illness in question is narcissistic personality disorder and explosive anger disorder… and I was her main victim. She targets me more than anyone.
Everyone knows. No one ever steps in.
They won't feel a moment of regret. They'll justify their own behaviour in their own heads, most likely using bible quotes to paper over the cracks and come out the other side of this completely unscared. Those poor freaking kids though, they will carry this with them forever and in a couple of months everyone else will have moved on and wonder why the kids haven't.
You’re right, save maybe a few who will carry it with them. They’ll say shit like “lords will” & “trials of mortality” blah blah but hopefully anyone close to the situation will learn from the idea of how important it is if you see something, do something. I read there was something posted where some dimwit had the gaddham audacity to write #familiesareforever. Like he *murdered* her, what planet are you living on to assume she’d even want to be stuck with him in fake forever?? Absolute Idiots.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/EBWoZzO4ns
They’re in this thread - also I’ve never done this before, (linking another post) so I hope it works lol.
If it doesn’t, it was posted here on exmormon a day or two ago with a picture of the couple & a link to an article.
There's a good chance that the bishop had no clue. Especially if the husband was so controlling that he did not allow his wife to meet with the bishop.
Bishops don't sign up to be bishops. There are a few men that are looking for that rung on the ladder, but most men do not want to be Bishops and are extremely unqualified to be a bishop. That's how the corporation wants it.
It's the mistake presidents when you start to really get into the asshole category of leaders. Most bishops are just doing what the mistake president tells them to do. But there are a few Bishops out there that are total assholes.
The free low level managers like Bishops & Stake Pres. I have had to interact with had zero training to counsel anyone about mental health issues or abusive marriages.
Really GOOD former Bishops ( like you if I remember correctly) or Stake Pres. who do understand this pandemic of domestic abuse in mormon church are few & far between.
There is a ton of men in this area (Alpine, Highland, PG) using questionable supplements & steroids trying to hold onto their youth & to portray prosperity gospel.
Add on someone who is already a highly controlling individual, abusive across all the spectrums & guns & you have a potential for the worst possible outcome.
This scenario happens most often when a spouse discloses they are leaving the marriage.
Floodlit.org illustrates that the only thing church is concerned about is making sure the church is always percieved as perfect and could care less about safety of infants, children, teen-agers or women.
Most people in this area are knee deep in debt, highly leveraged & the bank owns them & their business.
I can't imagine how utterly devastated the children are & the free low level local leaders will advise them to forgive their Dad & that they are still an eternal family & male & female leaders wil minimize & deny the abuse in the family & blame Lucifer or porn for this.
I think he was the bishop's executive secretary if I remember right. The father / murderer that is.
I'm also trying to remember if the wife had been in council with the bishop with regards to divorcing her husband.
It has a lot in common with the Rob Porter situation from a few years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Porter
Bishop knew. Read scriptures together more, pray together, and of course, temple attendance more often will help. Just keep that tithing money coming in. He knew.
Surely some of the crime has to be laid at the feet of the church. It warps minds and ruins lives and maybe the same angel that told Nephi to kill Laban instructed him to murder.
Daybell, Haight, now Johnson. All religious and political extremism, guns, patriarchy, perfectionist “putting on appearances,” worship of money and image. Utah County for Johnson and Daybell (of course) When will Mormons awake to their awful condition?
Jodi Arias. I was going to put Hamblin (and friends) but chances are, their alleged crimes (including murder) will continue to never go in front of a court of law.
Lori Vallow USED to be my aunt…. She is in Arizona now awaiting trial for conspiring to kill my uncle Charles and for the conspired attempt to kill Brandon Boudreaux (her blood niece’s now ex husband). It’s only taken 2 long ass trials in Idaho to finally get her ass back to AZ and face what she (and others imo) did to my uncle, and then ultimately my family. My mom Kay was rated as a “zombie” and Chad even issued my mom a zombie name of “Rhonda”. Crazy MF’er’s if you ask me. Been researching the deep abyss of Mormonism for right at 5 years now.
Mental illness is real!
I can name quite a few more including Martin MacNeil, Kouri Richins, the Haight family in Cedar City - fairly recent familicide! Thank you for your comment!
That'll happen when you believe you can still get into the upper echelons of Mormon heaven even if you murder-suicide your wife, so long as you do it before she divorces you ...
Do you suppose it can only get worse from here as we further watch the decline of Mormonism and husbands losing their perceived "control" of their wives?
It's the internet. This probably has been going on since the cult was started way back when.
The evil doers can't hide anymore. I thank God everyday for the internet, for ExMo, and for all of you!
You've been sharing things and I've learned SO much that this cult was never Christ's. It has become so obvious that it's The Corporation of Christ.
There is no difference between the Mega-pastors and the profit.
Quite possible he played the "Mormon game" his whole life, i.e. all outward smiley-face appearance without really getting a healthy state of mind, and it finally snapped.
If you google his name, it’s all over the nation on different news sources
I hope the kids realize this isn’t their fault and doesn’t reflect on them. I hope they also someday consider how the Mormon church failed them. And I hope they don’t let a bishop conduct the funeral.
Well, like a PH said proudly from the pulpit in my ward, “my wife knows how to push my buttons to get me angry”. Yes he did say it and no one said a word. It still haunts me.
I scrolled through for a while, til 2020 or so. What problems did you see? That’s what I was looking for too, but I just might be dense, I’d love to hear your take. Like a born and bred mo, I can be annoyingly black and white so sometimes I need to be led there 🫠
The only pics of his wife are posed (most of the pics are posed, which is automatically a set-up). Her Halloween costume looks like a normal outfit. And there are no pics of him being proud of her for something she's accomplished except as it relates to him (ie: shooting a gun, baking bread, or traveling with him). For example, I glean from the comments that she was a dance team coach, but you don't see him taking pride in her by posting a pic of her coaching or anything.
She was a singer and vocal coach and she performed frequently in local theater, often in starring, prominent roles. You’re right - there’s not one word expressing pride or support for her doing that. 😢
Who posts non posed pictures on their instagram? That’s usually what stories are for and let’s be honest yall are reading into his social media with the context of him being a psycho and a murderer. Otherwise the posts seem normal.
I feel like the kids are just trying to calm him a bit with those comments. Posting something that self deprecating has probably happened before after a family fight. It sounds like he’s playing the victim.
He does something wrong like yell at his wife or be controlling and immediately is like “Everyone thinks I’m a jerk. Poor me” to get attention and excuse his poor behavior. My dad does this sometimes.
I don’t think this is playing the victim. This is an untreated mental health issue. I’ve dealt with depression myself that feels a little like what you’re describing. Shit is going downhill and you only blame yourself and don’t know a way out. It sucks.
Obviously this doesn’t excuse the behavior.
Idk I think it’s both.
If say a small conflict happened where the dad screamed or hit his wife and then he made a post or said something like “no one loves me” then he’s demanding attention and pretending he’s the hurt one (playing the victim). No one hurt him in this situation, he just feels bad and lonely cuz people are mad at him. Sure he can have regret and feel stuck but his wife has the black eye.
There’s definitely a mental heath factor. You don’t shoot your wife and commit suicide without some mental health issues. From what I’ve gathered he was abusive and wasn’t trying to get better or be better.
Hopefully what you’ve experienced is different. I too feel lonely sometimes and I see people post things on Facebook to get sympathy or support. But I hope you and 99% of them aren’t abusers that continuously hurt others then cry about it because people don’t like being around them.
Playing the victim COMES from untreated mental health issues. As someone who is anti-demonizing of mental health, we also need to face the reality. Without proper care in society (let's face it, health care is a joke in the US) a LOT of trauma related disorders go untreated here. This in general can be VERY dangerous. Not to themselves, but to other's around them. This is why therapists always say they are legally obligated to say something if you are a danger to yourself or OTHERS. As someone with a cluster B, I know that at least all cluste Bs have a huge victim mindset.
Interesting. I noticed that the kids’ responses here didn’t say that their mom loved him. I think there were definite relationship problems…my guess is there was abuse involved…
The exact same thing happened to a close Mormon friend of mine last year in the fall. Husband shot her and planned to kill himself to, but didn’t go through with it. Had a bunch of kids. Makes you think, huh?
I mean they had 6 kids, obviously can’t speak on their financial situation with certainty but anything to make their transition from their uprooted life easier is fine with me.
True - it wasn’t a focus of the text, but nor was it explicitly connected to the case/motive/story, so it felt odd that it was mentioned several times - title, article, photo caption, with multiple paparazzi-esque photos of home.
It's weird that it got picked up on by a UK paper. But when the story broke, before we knew anything at all other than having photos of the home, I said "that's another abusive mormon piece of shit who killed his wife because he was in a mood and turned the gun on himself because didn't want to face the consequences of his church going peers finding out he's a piece of shit."
I find it strange that many of the orphaned “kids” are married adults, and most rich people don’t need a go fund me. I guess I’m maybe just a cynic—my dad died with $10 in his checking account, paying tithing to his local church and not letting anyone know he was suffering. Fuck the prosperity gospel.
It is a sad and tragic loss, but such a weird article.
The house itself is so big and gorgeous, it’s sensational by itself. Especially considering this is a British tabloid, and something that large is quite unimaginable- even for $1.5
I live in the UK, so can say their house looks unusually large and beautiful. Not something you’d see here
I worked client support with families in their homes in Eagle Mountain, and they were not huge like this. I’m sure that’s not the only house of its size in the area, but it’s hardly typical from my experience.
I saw that post but it didn't stand out in any way. What unnerved me was the fact that his profile linked to a site where you could buy shoot houses that could be changed around to create different configurations.
What is a shoot house? It's a practice shooting set up made to look like a residential house....
The eerie part of his post said “no matter how bad of a guy I am … something will always love me” I think it was motorcycles. Self fulfilling prophecy.
>'No matter how crappy a person I am, motorcycles always love me back. Oh and skiing. Skiing loves me too.'
"Chilling" seems a little sensationalized. I see posts like this everyday on my feed
It is chilling when you read his children (plural) replying to *this exact post* telling him “you’re a good Dad and we still love you.” You know . . . *consoling* him. Also chilling when a son of his ran away inside the home — to hide — and called 911 when Dad was in such a fit of rage and threw a laptop into the wall. YMMV
Idk given the fact he murdered his wife, this post kinda showed he didn’t think he was loved by her and knew he was being a shitty person.
Maybe if he was more humble and open he could’ve taken that realization to get some help? 🤷♀️
His social media posts make it sound like even as abusive and controlling as he was, he couldn't make his wife love him. Did he decide that breedem young was right and blood attone her??
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/fremont-man-found-guilty-in-death-of-wife-2765340.php
The more I find, the more horrified I become! I left and I never plan to return, but this (now from the outside) is beyond messed up.
Hey, the good news for us exmos is that he won't be in the same kingdom as us. We're going to outer darkness and he'll be up in the Telestial probably.
One of my friends has been best friends with her since they were 11 years old. She is truly devastated and rocked to her core. So many of the community members are grieving her loss. She really was an incredible person.
But as many have said, all the abuse will be swept under the rug. It make some so angry that someone had to lose their life because the church wants to keep a good name.
The house is about 2 miles away from where I live. I went to costco yesterday and I drive by that area on my way to costco. I looked over as I was passing by, there must have been about 50 people outside their house. Dressed for church. From a human perspective I have to feel for their ward members, this is a rather shocking thing to happen in a neighborhood. But even in a tragedy like this they make excuses to justify their beliefs. They are ignorant, sadly in the matrix of their church. I feel so bad for their kids, the kind of pain they will go through the rest of their lives is immeasurable. I posted a comment on his last post about him rotting in hell. Nobody removed it, and then I decided to. No reason for his kids to see that. Their pain is great, no reason to pile.
So my question is...if it comes out that bishops and others in the church knew about the abuse and pressured the wife to stay and "try harder," what are the chances it'll cause the kids (if any) to leave? Or have they been so conditioned in the culture that they'll do mental gymnastics and remain in the faith?
What a champion. Nice hat, champion
When I saw this guy's stupid face, I knew I didn't like him.
Then I read the article, and all of my intutions were confirmed.
Sometimes, the Holy Ghost really does whisper to us. Sometimes,a picture IS worth a thousand words.
"I like shooting guns and driving cars!" Fuck you
People are extra shocked when white, affluent ppl living the “American Dream” do low brow shit. Like engage in domestic violence or chain kids up in basements. That embarrassing behavior is for the poors.
Big contrast with the gofundme account that’s already raised more than $60,000. It’s certainly a tragedy, but why do a multimillionaire’s adult kids need a gofunme?
This really sucks for them and also they don’t need monetary donations. It’s probably one of the only ways people know to be helpful, but I’m guessing they need a LOT more than just more money.
This is so sad. Another thought is that on social media/to the rest of the world/ward/neighborhood, a couple or family can appear "Perfect" which is super common especially in ***UTAH.***
**I hope that we all can embark on more conversations of mental health, and that truly, the highest number of people committing suicide are older ADULT MEN. Crazy but true.**
**Please, seek professional therapy, CBT, EMDR, and whatever emotional support groups to recalibrate if you find yourself or a loved one spiraling or aggressing to a point of domestic violence, self harm, etc.**
Browsing the web in 2024 without uBlock Origin and/or AdGuard is a horrible user experience. Running these on my home network i didn't see any spam, and zero ads.
The downward spiral of the enshittification process will only make the Internet worse from here. Should you have to do this to browse the web? No, but here we are.
Get uBlock here: https://ublockorigin.com
AdGuard here: https://adguard.com
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- https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Capacity_Enhancement_Guide-Securing_Web_Browsers_and_Defending_Against_Malvertising_for_Federal_Agencies.pdf
You're welcome, apologies I didn't phrase it the nicest — the coffee hadn't quite kicked in (lame excuse, I know — it's not your fault I'm a somewhat insufferable asshole before noon, I shouldn't take it out on random redditors).
Rephrased it to be less... tech-snobish.
Click bait wording in the title but that's par for the course on any national "news" outlet that picks up these kinds of stories.
You're not an orphan if your parents die when you're an adult.
It's just a quibble but the real problem is the story was picked up as tragedy porn for middle aged soccer moms and the true crime crowd.
So sad.
It reminds me of that other family where the dad killed all the kids in part bc of huge financial issues and he couldn't bear to shatter the illusion of wealth
I left my wife because she was unrelenting in her abuse and manipulation. I could imagine myself killing her it was getting that bad. After I left she directed her abuse to our 5 year old daughter. The police and DCFS refused to get involved. Today my children are grown with families of their own. They spend as little time as possible with their mother.
That house was only 1.5 million? An identical house to mine in San Jose (4 bedroom 2.5 bath town home build in the 80s, with very small patio.) down the street is selling for 1.4 million.
Housing sucks the world over right now, but California Bay Area is still way over the top.
Such a tragedy. Those poor kids having to deal with this senseless loss.
I'm sure they too, witnessed his violence against her. Another thing to overcome.
Such a horrible tragedy! I've seen a few comments on Deseret News articles saying that this man was such a "good person". This jerk murdered his wife - not a good person!! Period!!! End of discussion!!!!
The abuse likely went on behind closed doors for their entire relationship. And his Bishops knows/knew what was going on, you know he does. Hopefully the bishop can be prosecuted for having knowledge of someone being in imminent danger and failing to report it.
Other redditors who knew them personally have commented that the abuse & control was obvious to anyone who knew them & that there would be “many people who will feel regret for many years to come for not doing more”. 😔 Tells us people knew. Most likely their Bishop damn well knew. I do not know them nor have I met them however my son is friends with one of their sons & it has rocked their peer group & high school. An absolutely unnecessary tragedy.
I believe this happens because it hits close to home. I was abused as a kid and everyone in my ward knew it, but said and did nothing to protect me.
Not good. I’m so sorry.
I’m so sorry to hear this. I can’t imagine being a kid & feeling like there’s no one to help. Makes me so angry. Truly, the (any) church is the perfect place to breed & cover up abuse. When anyone claims to have “discernment” or to speak for god, it’s an immediate red flag for me that their moral compass is fucked. Their 1st priority: protect the “good name of the church” aka no public scrutiny 2nd priority: guilt the victim into forgiving the abuser “like Christ taught” aka shut them up I wish that wasn’t part of your story, childhood is supposed to be safe. 😔
After I was an adult, I had one of my leaders actually tell me that she knew I was getting mistreated but that no one knew how to handle it. They just wanted to keep my mom happy because she was notoriously difficult within the stake, so they fawned all over her to avoid making a scene. I feel like the message I received was that my parents were right and I was the problem. I still feel like I was an awful kid, and unworthy of friendship or love.
I still to this day don't 'really' know what to do. In that situation.
The thing I never understood about the "protect the good name of the church" reaction: wouldn't the best way to protect the good name of the church be to build a reputation for reporting abusers?
One would think! I mean that seems to make the most sense to me but what do we peasants know 🙄
But church is such a safe respectful place. /s *screams into the void!*
Same. And the excuse is always “(abuser) is mentally ill, she can’t help it. We wouldn’t punish someone for having a physical illness.” The mental illness in question is narcissistic personality disorder and explosive anger disorder… and I was her main victim. She targets me more than anyone. Everyone knows. No one ever steps in.
They won't feel a moment of regret. They'll justify their own behaviour in their own heads, most likely using bible quotes to paper over the cracks and come out the other side of this completely unscared. Those poor freaking kids though, they will carry this with them forever and in a couple of months everyone else will have moved on and wonder why the kids haven't.
You’re right, save maybe a few who will carry it with them. They’ll say shit like “lords will” & “trials of mortality” blah blah but hopefully anyone close to the situation will learn from the idea of how important it is if you see something, do something. I read there was something posted where some dimwit had the gaddham audacity to write #familiesareforever. Like he *murdered* her, what planet are you living on to assume she’d even want to be stuck with him in fake forever?? Absolute Idiots.
Links to these comments?
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/EBWoZzO4ns They’re in this thread - also I’ve never done this before, (linking another post) so I hope it works lol. If it doesn’t, it was posted here on exmormon a day or two ago with a picture of the couple & a link to an article.
It worked! Many thanks!
Awesome, you’re welcome!
Anyone posting photos of guns on social media, that are clearly intended as weapons, has violent tendencies.
There's a good chance that the bishop had no clue. Especially if the husband was so controlling that he did not allow his wife to meet with the bishop. Bishops don't sign up to be bishops. There are a few men that are looking for that rung on the ladder, but most men do not want to be Bishops and are extremely unqualified to be a bishop. That's how the corporation wants it. It's the mistake presidents when you start to really get into the asshole category of leaders. Most bishops are just doing what the mistake president tells them to do. But there are a few Bishops out there that are total assholes.
No one on the planet is qualified to be a bishop. They’re setup to fail on purpose.
The free low level managers like Bishops & Stake Pres. I have had to interact with had zero training to counsel anyone about mental health issues or abusive marriages. Really GOOD former Bishops ( like you if I remember correctly) or Stake Pres. who do understand this pandemic of domestic abuse in mormon church are few & far between. There is a ton of men in this area (Alpine, Highland, PG) using questionable supplements & steroids trying to hold onto their youth & to portray prosperity gospel. Add on someone who is already a highly controlling individual, abusive across all the spectrums & guns & you have a potential for the worst possible outcome. This scenario happens most often when a spouse discloses they are leaving the marriage. Floodlit.org illustrates that the only thing church is concerned about is making sure the church is always percieved as perfect and could care less about safety of infants, children, teen-agers or women. Most people in this area are knee deep in debt, highly leveraged & the bank owns them & their business. I can't imagine how utterly devastated the children are & the free low level local leaders will advise them to forgive their Dad & that they are still an eternal family & male & female leaders wil minimize & deny the abuse in the family & blame Lucifer or porn for this.
Did the Enoch murders have the bishop in the loop? I seem to recall he knew.
I think he was the bishop's executive secretary if I remember right. The father / murderer that is. I'm also trying to remember if the wife had been in council with the bishop with regards to divorcing her husband. It has a lot in common with the Rob Porter situation from a few years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Porter
I mean, when I was 10 our bishop was essentially our YW pimp so…let’s not umbrella them as people just doing a job.
>But there are a few Bishops out there that are total asshole
I think pimping out young women to older unsatisfied men to test your ‘purity’ would definitely put you in the asshole category and more.
Wtf, that’s insane
Holy shit, did he go to jail?
Of course not, why would he have? Everyone who knew wouldn’t have told, then they would have lost their stream of young toys.
Yeah, this tracks.
Bishop knew. Read scriptures together more, pray together, and of course, temple attendance more often will help. Just keep that tithing money coming in. He knew.
They *do* sign up…by not saying “no”. It’s not like they don’t get a say.
You never say no to a calling, Until you do.
I keep seeing the phrase "devoted parents."
I can see that people thought he was a good person. My sister married an asshole but to the outside world, everyone loves him!
Surely some of the crime has to be laid at the feet of the church. It warps minds and ruins lives and maybe the same angel that told Nephi to kill Laban instructed him to murder.
Seems like this is happening more and more in Utah with Mormons.
Mormons gonna have their own wing in the true crime museum!
Daybell, Haight, now Johnson. All religious and political extremism, guns, patriarchy, perfectionist “putting on appearances,” worship of money and image. Utah County for Johnson and Daybell (of course) When will Mormons awake to their awful condition?
Don't forget Mark Hacking.
And Josh Powell
and Tim Ballard!!!
Laffertys
And JAMES CRAIG the LDS dentist in Colorado who poisoned his wife.
And the murderess children's book author of something like "Daddy's in Heaven Now." Yeah bitch, cuz you put him there.
And Michael Haight of Enoch who killed his entire family before shooting himself.
They mentioned him above.
Jodi Arias. I was going to put Hamblin (and friends) but chances are, their alleged crimes (including murder) will continue to never go in front of a court of law. Lori Vallow USED to be my aunt…. She is in Arizona now awaiting trial for conspiring to kill my uncle Charles and for the conspired attempt to kill Brandon Boudreaux (her blood niece’s now ex husband). It’s only taken 2 long ass trials in Idaho to finally get her ass back to AZ and face what she (and others imo) did to my uncle, and then ultimately my family. My mom Kay was rated as a “zombie” and Chad even issued my mom a zombie name of “Rhonda”. Crazy MF’er’s if you ask me. Been researching the deep abyss of Mormonism for right at 5 years now. Mental illness is real!
Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt
Kouri Richins & Stampin up MLM heiress RM Shanna Gardner.
And Aaron Pennington
There are oh so many more unfortunately.
Don't forget James Craig, Mormon dentist who killed his wife (mother of 6) by poisoning her morning protein shakes to f*@* an orthodontist in Texas.
I can name quite a few more including Martin MacNeil, Kouri Richins, the Haight family in Cedar City - fairly recent familicide! Thank you for your comment!
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/fremont-man-found-guilty-in-death-of-wife-2765340.php Another... wtf is happening with these Mormon men!?
OMG - Hadn't seen this article!
Ruby Franke
It’s because LDS theology and culture endorse coercive control.
That'll happen when you believe you can still get into the upper echelons of Mormon heaven even if you murder-suicide your wife, so long as you do it before she divorces you ... Do you suppose it can only get worse from here as we further watch the decline of Mormonism and husbands losing their perceived "control" of their wives?
It's the internet. This probably has been going on since the cult was started way back when. The evil doers can't hide anymore. I thank God everyday for the internet, for ExMo, and for all of you! You've been sharing things and I've learned SO much that this cult was never Christ's. It has become so obvious that it's The Corporation of Christ. There is no difference between the Mega-pastors and the profit.
Quite possible he played the "Mormon game" his whole life, i.e. all outward smiley-face appearance without really getting a healthy state of mind, and it finally snapped.
That’s what I think, too. When will Mormons awake to their awful condition? Because it *is awful
If you google his name, it’s all over the nation on different news sources I hope the kids realize this isn’t their fault and doesn’t reflect on them. I hope they also someday consider how the Mormon church failed them. And I hope they don’t let a bishop conduct the funeral.
Well, like a PH said proudly from the pulpit in my ward, “my wife knows how to push my buttons to get me angry”. Yes he did say it and no one said a word. It still haunts me.
This is a bit overly broad to comprehend. PH literally refers to 3.5 billion people...
Sorry, PH?
If you scroll through all his posts, it gets creepier. There was clearly a lot of problems poorly covered with a social media mask
I scrolled through for a while, til 2020 or so. What problems did you see? That’s what I was looking for too, but I just might be dense, I’d love to hear your take. Like a born and bred mo, I can be annoyingly black and white so sometimes I need to be led there 🫠
The only pics of his wife are posed (most of the pics are posed, which is automatically a set-up). Her Halloween costume looks like a normal outfit. And there are no pics of him being proud of her for something she's accomplished except as it relates to him (ie: shooting a gun, baking bread, or traveling with him). For example, I glean from the comments that she was a dance team coach, but you don't see him taking pride in her by posting a pic of her coaching or anything.
She was a singer and vocal coach and she performed frequently in local theater, often in starring, prominent roles. You’re right - there’s not one word expressing pride or support for her doing that. 😢
Who posts non posed pictures on their instagram? That’s usually what stories are for and let’s be honest yall are reading into his social media with the context of him being a psycho and a murderer. Otherwise the posts seem normal.
Right. I forgot the platform. I don't actively use Instagram.
FWIW there are those of us out there who don't mostly post 'posed' pictures. Candids are more fun and natural anyway.
Awful!
The comments from the kids are a gut punch. So fucked.
I feel like the kids are just trying to calm him a bit with those comments. Posting something that self deprecating has probably happened before after a family fight. It sounds like he’s playing the victim. He does something wrong like yell at his wife or be controlling and immediately is like “Everyone thinks I’m a jerk. Poor me” to get attention and excuse his poor behavior. My dad does this sometimes.
Yep, this is a common tactic of narcissistic abusers. Rapunzel’s mom in “Tangled” does the same thing. “Oh great, now I’m the bad guy.”
Exactly!
100%. Have so lived that, everyone walking on egg shells all the time. They were appeasing his pathetic ego as to not start another fight.
So true good call
I don’t think this is playing the victim. This is an untreated mental health issue. I’ve dealt with depression myself that feels a little like what you’re describing. Shit is going downhill and you only blame yourself and don’t know a way out. It sucks. Obviously this doesn’t excuse the behavior.
Idk I think it’s both. If say a small conflict happened where the dad screamed or hit his wife and then he made a post or said something like “no one loves me” then he’s demanding attention and pretending he’s the hurt one (playing the victim). No one hurt him in this situation, he just feels bad and lonely cuz people are mad at him. Sure he can have regret and feel stuck but his wife has the black eye. There’s definitely a mental heath factor. You don’t shoot your wife and commit suicide without some mental health issues. From what I’ve gathered he was abusive and wasn’t trying to get better or be better. Hopefully what you’ve experienced is different. I too feel lonely sometimes and I see people post things on Facebook to get sympathy or support. But I hope you and 99% of them aren’t abusers that continuously hurt others then cry about it because people don’t like being around them.
Playing the victim COMES from untreated mental health issues. As someone who is anti-demonizing of mental health, we also need to face the reality. Without proper care in society (let's face it, health care is a joke in the US) a LOT of trauma related disorders go untreated here. This in general can be VERY dangerous. Not to themselves, but to other's around them. This is why therapists always say they are legally obligated to say something if you are a danger to yourself or OTHERS. As someone with a cluster B, I know that at least all cluste Bs have a huge victim mindset.
I noticed as well that they (the couple) were not FB friends with each other.
Interesting. I noticed that the kids’ responses here didn’t say that their mom loved him. I think there were definite relationship problems…my guess is there was abuse involved…
The LDS culture and doctrine fosters and protects men who thrive on coercive control. We know, not all men, but my god, there’s a lot of them.
When the other men aren't doing anything to stop it, it start to feel a lot like all men.
The exact same thing happened to a close Mormon friend of mine last year in the fall. Husband shot her and planned to kill himself to, but didn’t go through with it. Had a bunch of kids. Makes you think, huh?
Tragic. I see a go fund me has been set up for the children Multi millionaires? ?
What’s more is that there’s a multibillion dollar church which supposedly takes care of their own in times of financial need in the mix.
It really doesn’t.
Hopefully the go fund me will help with the teen’s educations, housing, cars etc…
Just because you see nice stuff, that doesn't mean it wasn't bought with debt.
Very true
I mean they had 6 kids, obviously can’t speak on their financial situation with certainty but anything to make their transition from their uprooted life easier is fine with me.
How old are the orphaned kids?
Teens to young adults.
Not sure how related but it is very tragic. Hope there is a further progress with the investigation.
Why the focus on the value of the home?
The US’s infatuation with the idea that “good people” prosper. It’s a prosperity gospel thing, at least that’s my opinion.
🎯
Not a focus, but I also found it curious that they think American Fork is rural Utah.
True - it wasn’t a focus of the text, but nor was it explicitly connected to the case/motive/story, so it felt odd that it was mentioned several times - title, article, photo caption, with multiple paparazzi-esque photos of home.
It's weird that it got picked up on by a UK paper. But when the story broke, before we knew anything at all other than having photos of the home, I said "that's another abusive mormon piece of shit who killed his wife because he was in a mood and turned the gun on himself because didn't want to face the consequences of his church going peers finding out he's a piece of shit."
To someone in London? It's definitely rural. American Fork pop dens: 1,335/km2 London pop dens: 5,640/km2
Do they call St. Helens rural? Unlikely. Just because something isn't London dense doesn't make it rural or not a city.
Because people are more shocked when a rich person kills themselves.
More money more problems. 🤷
I find it strange that many of the orphaned “kids” are married adults, and most rich people don’t need a go fund me. I guess I’m maybe just a cynic—my dad died with $10 in his checking account, paying tithing to his local church and not letting anyone know he was suffering. Fuck the prosperity gospel. It is a sad and tragic loss, but such a weird article.
Could've been up to his eyeballs in debt to buy all that stuff.
Very true, and very likely I’m sure!
The house itself is so big and gorgeous, it’s sensational by itself. Especially considering this is a British tabloid, and something that large is quite unimaginable- even for $1.5 I live in the UK, so can say their house looks unusually large and beautiful. Not something you’d see here
Ohhhh. That makes way more sense. Thats a pretty typical home for the wealthy of Utah County.
Really? It’s HUGE. And I live in slc. Does not seem typical at all to me.
That’s why i specified Utah county. Highland, alpine, Draper, newer AF, Eagle mountain, Saratoga, Lehi
I worked client support with families in their homes in Eagle Mountain, and they were not huge like this. I’m sure that’s not the only house of its size in the area, but it’s hardly typical from my experience.
Honest question: can most people actually afford those houses? Or are they deeply in debt and house-poor for the sake of appearances?
No clue. I definitely can’t.
But now, try selling it when someone has been murdered in it.
Haha, with the Utah real estate market, it will still be out of budget Need to find a nice townhome with a murder before I could start tk afford Utah
Too true.
Good thing we know the value of their home
I saw that post but it didn't stand out in any way. What unnerved me was the fact that his profile linked to a site where you could buy shoot houses that could be changed around to create different configurations. What is a shoot house? It's a practice shooting set up made to look like a residential house....
It’s used by the DOJ for tactical training (according to his website and a Facebook post)
Sure. But it's still really unnerving.
Completely
The eerie part of his post said “no matter how bad of a guy I am … something will always love me” I think it was motorcycles. Self fulfilling prophecy.
Narcissistic validation seeking behavior on display.
💯
Motorcycles and skiing. I guess it's kind of creepy but it didn't really strike me as weird. But that link....
Apparently it was the business he owned
Supplies that police use for training.
They are sold to the military/police for training purposes, I believe, but I could be wrong there.
America has a gun and religion problem
And a political problem too.
The political problem is mostly religious though.
The political problem is more related to big money and the rich, but religion is certainly a useful tool for them.
I think it’s the opposite, mostly, but also a mixture of the two.
Religion is just a way for the guys at the top to have big money and be the rich.
Since when is American Fork considered rural? Its practically a suburb of SLC
Mental health is not divided along religious lines.
Wealthy Mormon? I think you mean absolute piece of fucking shit cuntbag loser Destroyed 7 lives when he could have divorced and lived comfortably
>'No matter how crappy a person I am, motorcycles always love me back. Oh and skiing. Skiing loves me too.' "Chilling" seems a little sensationalized. I see posts like this everyday on my feed
It is chilling when you read his children (plural) replying to *this exact post* telling him “you’re a good Dad and we still love you.” You know . . . *consoling* him. Also chilling when a son of his ran away inside the home — to hide — and called 911 when Dad was in such a fit of rage and threw a laptop into the wall. YMMV
Idk given the fact he murdered his wife, this post kinda showed he didn’t think he was loved by her and knew he was being a shitty person. Maybe if he was more humble and open he could’ve taken that realization to get some help? 🤷♀️
Hopefully he remembers her new name.
Hopefully she tells him to fuck off as he is dragged to hell.
Mormons do not have hell. Outer darkness at worst, but this man does not qualify for it, most bad people don't.
You have to be a member of ex-mormon Reddit to qualify for OD. You can bypass that requirement if you steal sacred tithing funds.
He's a smoothie now!!
Not in a non-Catholic Jesus religion, unfortunately. Jesus forgives murderers and abusers! Zero reason for them to hold back.
Ya no shit.
But wait, how expensive was the home again?🙄 Not sure why the Daily Mail thinks that's such an important part of this story.
Wealthy. Check. White. Check. Mormon. Check. The Daily Mail is a tabloid. They tend to check off the boxes that drive engagement. Nothing new.
His social media posts make it sound like even as abusive and controlling as he was, he couldn't make his wife love him. Did he decide that breedem young was right and blood attone her??
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/fremont-man-found-guilty-in-death-of-wife-2765340.php The more I find, the more horrified I become! I left and I never plan to return, but this (now from the outside) is beyond messed up.
Thankfully he didn’t take the kids, too.
I don’t understand. Why didn’t their bishop fix this? 🤔
Hey, the good news for us exmos is that he won't be in the same kingdom as us. We're going to outer darkness and he'll be up in the Telestial probably.
I think we are going to find out about money problems on his side
In the business we call this… foreshadowing
Calling that house stunning is generous
“We need taller steeples to stop these tragedies!!”
So sad!
One of my friends has been best friends with her since they were 11 years old. She is truly devastated and rocked to her core. So many of the community members are grieving her loss. She really was an incredible person. But as many have said, all the abuse will be swept under the rug. It make some so angry that someone had to lose their life because the church wants to keep a good name.
The house is about 2 miles away from where I live. I went to costco yesterday and I drive by that area on my way to costco. I looked over as I was passing by, there must have been about 50 people outside their house. Dressed for church. From a human perspective I have to feel for their ward members, this is a rather shocking thing to happen in a neighborhood. But even in a tragedy like this they make excuses to justify their beliefs. They are ignorant, sadly in the matrix of their church. I feel so bad for their kids, the kind of pain they will go through the rest of their lives is immeasurable. I posted a comment on his last post about him rotting in hell. Nobody removed it, and then I decided to. No reason for his kids to see that. Their pain is great, no reason to pile.
If you scroll through the photos, that’s a lot of weapons!
So my question is...if it comes out that bishops and others in the church knew about the abuse and pressured the wife to stay and "try harder," what are the chances it'll cause the kids (if any) to leave? Or have they been so conditioned in the culture that they'll do mental gymnastics and remain in the faith?
Where was the inspiration from leaders?!
What a champion. Nice hat, champion When I saw this guy's stupid face, I knew I didn't like him. Then I read the article, and all of my intutions were confirmed. Sometimes, the Holy Ghost really does whisper to us. Sometimes,a picture IS worth a thousand words. "I like shooting guns and driving cars!" Fuck you
Goes to show having money doesn't mean you're doing good.
What does his income and the cost of their home have to do with anything?
People are extra shocked when white, affluent ppl living the “American Dream” do low brow shit. Like engage in domestic violence or chain kids up in basements. That embarrassing behavior is for the poors.
Big contrast with the gofundme account that’s already raised more than $60,000. It’s certainly a tragedy, but why do a multimillionaire’s adult kids need a gofunme?
They’re not all adults. The youngest is about 13 and I think there was another still at home.
This really sucks for them and also they don’t need monetary donations. It’s probably one of the only ways people know to be helpful, but I’m guessing they need a LOT more than just more money.
This is so sad. Another thought is that on social media/to the rest of the world/ward/neighborhood, a couple or family can appear "Perfect" which is super common especially in ***UTAH.*** **I hope that we all can embark on more conversations of mental health, and that truly, the highest number of people committing suicide are older ADULT MEN. Crazy but true.** **Please, seek professional therapy, CBT, EMDR, and whatever emotional support groups to recalibrate if you find yourself or a loved one spiraling or aggressing to a point of domestic violence, self harm, etc.**
Well that was spammy link.
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Thanks.
You're welcome, apologies I didn't phrase it the nicest — the coffee hadn't quite kicked in (lame excuse, I know — it's not your fault I'm a somewhat insufferable asshole before noon, I shouldn't take it out on random redditors). Rephrased it to be less... tech-snobish.
No stress.
Do you think that she threatened to leave / divorce after years of abuse? That seems like the most likely possibility.
Disgusting. This is toxic positivity at the next level, I mean, damn.
I hate Mormons
Are your adult children considered orphans if you die?
Click bait wording in the title but that's par for the course on any national "news" outlet that picks up these kinds of stories. You're not an orphan if your parents die when you're an adult. It's just a quibble but the real problem is the story was picked up as tragedy porn for middle aged soccer moms and the true crime crowd.
Who writes these articles some 12 year old journalist
So sad. It reminds me of that other family where the dad killed all the kids in part bc of huge financial issues and he couldn't bear to shatter the illusion of wealth
I left my wife because she was unrelenting in her abuse and manipulation. I could imagine myself killing her it was getting that bad. After I left she directed her abuse to our 5 year old daughter. The police and DCFS refused to get involved. Today my children are grown with families of their own. They spend as little time as possible with their mother.
More Mormon Cult murders. Nothing new here people. Keep it moving.
Could the cult experience have contributed to this
That house was only 1.5 million? An identical house to mine in San Jose (4 bedroom 2.5 bath town home build in the 80s, with very small patio.) down the street is selling for 1.4 million. Housing sucks the world over right now, but California Bay Area is still way over the top.
Ahh. Textbook Mor[m]on Family.
So a controlling gun nut.
The wife looks like Ruby Franke.