https://www.gulflive.com/news/2024/03/how-a-religious-organization-became-floridas-largest-private-landowner.html
They need to be taxed. I’m a small business owner. I don’t think it should be a thing that I possibly should have to compete with an organization that has tax free funds to use.
Yeah well that and the $6-$7 BILLION all tax free annually that they rob from the Duped TBMs $$$ that ought to be going towards retirement savings rather than going to fund real estate investment ventures and playing the Stock market. . The church would be more accurately named GREED INC .
Enjoying the benefits of capitalism while evading all the costs and responsibilities, just like Jesus.
As a homeowner who cares about the younger generation, I'm sickened by what investors are doing to the price of housing. Hedge funds are buying up housing units faster than humans are in some areas.
It definitely shouldn't be that way. I understand small businesses not paying tax, but once you hit a certain threshold of a large size it absolutely should be a thing and not have tax breaks
Property Reserve is actually taxed. But their one and only investor/owner is not. So they essentially raise investment capital tax free which literally no other kind of business in the world gets to do besides religion.
I feel exactly the same way. There's so many reasons they should be taxed. But they aren't alone. So many organizations, both public and private, are buying up everything.
YES!!!! I often feel helpless realizing I am competing against churches and corporations just in my daily living. I cannot imagine the pain small business owners feel in having very real competition with organizations that have massive tax benefits and exemptions. My heart goes out to you and others in your camp.
Yeah that’s what they said about their insurance businesses. And they got fined for using interest off of tithing money.
Churches have no business owning businesses. Unless it’s a legit charity, which almost doesn’t exist.
I’m arguing the church doesn’t have any business running for profit business’s. And to go any further, no church should be able too.
edit- and considering they’ve been caught cheating….
Ok. That’s your opinion but your opinion doesn’t reflect the current tax code in the US, which allows religions to own for-profit business entities.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf
You’ll have to talk to congress to see if they will create legislation that reflects your opinion. Downvoting me for stating the facts, doesn’t help your cause.
Weirdo, I understand it’s legal now. It shouldn’t be. It never worked nor it should.
Your argument is they’re paying tax’s, but they don’t. They literally got fined the weakest amount for breaking those rules.
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/05/984527939/mormon-church-misused-donors-money-says-federal-lawsuit
I’m going out of my fucking mind right now. I’m sickened. I’m PIMO so by staying quiet, I’m endorsing this bullshit.
These motherfuckers don’t know when to quit. They don’t give two shits about bad press. It’s them who are being the assholes, not me. They can’t control themselves.
The SEC ruling didn’t do anything to humble them and their financial ambitions.
God damn them.
> They don’t give two shits about bad press.
They seemed to have taken this stance. The previous modus operandi was to never sully the good name of the church. Now it seems they relish bad press.
They aren’t under any illusions that people are joining the church anymore. One internet search is enough for normal people to say no thanks. They’d rather have the money and power than the respect.
Warning: SA
> The Associated Press obtained nearly 12,000 pages of sealed records from an unrelated child sex abuse lawsuit against the Mormon church in West Virginia, which show that the help line is part of a system that can easily be misused by church leaders to divert abuse accusations against church members away from law enforcement and instead to church attorneys, who may bury the problem, leaving victims in harm’s way.
> It was **established in 1995** when legal claims of sex abuse against churches were on the rise.
> Officials of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said in sworn statements included in the sealed records that the help line is staffed by social workers who destroy records of all calls at the close of each day.
([Source](https://web.archive.org/web/20240524221548/apnews.com/article/mormon-church-sexual-abuse-takeaways-f01fba7521ddddffa89622668b54ac10))
So yeah, 1995 is one of *many* good demarcation points of how depraved they've convinced themselves it's ok to be.
In the late 90s we were still baptizing full families and people who were accomplished enough that they went straight in to leadership.
Now it’s just desperate single moms, single guys on house arrest, & 9 year olds.
To keep their families fed. I grew up food insecure, and it can mean extremes not to let one's child slip into malnutrition - even joining a cult for access to the bishop's store.
Not sure. You’d have to ask them. But it’s absolutely a thing. There were 3 at church this last Sunday. When we lived in Tacoma, there were new ones every week. Whatever it is they’re looking for, they aren’t gonna find it tho.
Why are we here bashing women who are raising children on their own? These are strong women. Why assume they are poor or desperate for food, a man or anything? Maybe they are looking for a bit of support and a good lifestyle as they do their best to raise the children. Someone has recommended the church as a good thing for kids and families and they will soon find out that they will be looked down upon in the church just as they are being bashed on this thread. Where are the fathers of these little ones?
Nobody’s bashing women. At all. Read it again. Some people are so sensitive that they read offense where there’s none there. These women are desperate and tricked because they are vulnerable. They’re victims. That was 100% clear in my statement.
I'm not bashing on them. It's an attractive option for some people. I personally don't like my kids' new stepmother, but her marrying an engineer with kids is a good move on her part. Especially since she wants to be a stay at home mom. She's also a convert that got suckered into joining the church because they were nice to her. I'll judge her on that one, but I also understand getting suckered by seemingly nice people.
I will also say my ex isn't an abusive asshole. We are just wildly mismatched for each other, and felt like we were the only options. His new wife seems to be way closer to the trad wife he wanted. I'm a fuckin weirdo that he got stuck with. *shrugs*
Used to feel like that too. Then I got out. I'm not letting them claim my support and membership backing for all the bullshit they do. I know it's a small thing in the grand scheme, but I definitely feel less conflicted.
lets talk optics...
a "church", that would not allow black male members to hold its highest "priesthood" until 1978, has purchased an apartment complex in a municipality named "Plantation".
irony much???
That is exactly right... Back in 1978 the federal government informed the LDS Church that unless it allowed blacks full membership (including the priesthood) they would have to cease calling themselves a non-profit organization and start paying income taxes. On $16.5 million a day in tithing alone that’s a lot of tax monies that could be better used in building up the Kingdom of God.
I've posted these comments multi-times & I will continue to every time they expand their world wide real estate empire.
Every year the homeless die of heatstroke or freeze to death a block or two away from Temple Square & the Church Administration Bldg (CAB).
Q15 & 70 walk out of the CAB & cross the street to City Creek Mall that church leaders spent est. $ 1.5 Billion + to build.
Q15/70 etc... have lunch or dinner and shop at Tiffany's, Louis Vuitton, Nordstrom, Restoration Hardware, Macys,etc...
The church has no "Not for profit" hospitals (Google St. Judes Hospital for example) no cooling/heating locations for homeless, no free food banks, no men or women homeless shelters, no free medical clinics or gift cards for gas, etc...
Church leaders refuse to help even middle class, lower middle class or the poor in their wards & stakes.
I've lived in 2-3% income bracket wards/stakes & they do anything & everything to help these high paying tithe priesthood holders/families when they hit a bump/pothole in the road of life.
If the church does help you & your the other 97% & the majority of church members you must pay them back in free labor & tithe 10% & grovel.
The number of homeless in Utah is obscene.
Single women with children & women over 58 are getting hit extremely hard.
Q15/70 live in 7+ figure homes & many have second or a 3rd home in Midway where they can flee to cool off from the desert floor heat while everyone else literally roasts.
Mormon hierarchy has obviously never read the New Testament.
Evil.
How is this behavior by a "non-profit church" & it's leaders any different than the political & ruling class in Russia, China, North Korea, etc....
This sub is really good about fact checking and aligning with reality. I just don’t want any TBMs to look over here and claim that we are peddling inaccurate data and claim to be victims of misinformation.
I cannot wait for these to be filled with the destitute, the down trodden, the poor and humble among the inhabitants of the earth. These shall glorify God by providing for those who have not place to lay their heads. Oh wait…
Ah yes, Jesus commanding his apostles to buy an apartment complex for $133 million is one of my favorite stories in the New Testament.
Does anyone have a running tally of large commercial purchases like this in 2024? I'd love to compare it to their "charitable giving" at the end of the year.
Google Widows Mite Mormon
I think it's widowsmite.wordpress.com?
It's all accountants, professionals,etc... & the break down on church assets is spot on.
Salt Lake Tribune uses their site as a source and credits the site in their investigative articles on the church.
I'm aware of WM, but I was wondering if anyone had a list of this year to date. WM is absolutely amazing, I love it, but their data is only from Previous quarters and years. I guess I can always wait for the reports to be compiled
Idk what's more sinister... the heads of the church doing shit like this, or the fact they've successfully continued a 200-year long scam so well, that the majority of church members who look into events like this and the SEC filings of the church etc will simply write it off as "evidence" of this being God's one true church, because they're THAT deeply indoctrinated. Jim Jones ain't had nothing on the mormom church. Why kill em when you could indoctrinate entire families and entire sections of the world for generations, securing their convictions, time, money, and labor, all for free, and you get to reap all the benefits of that, all you have to do is put on a good act publically?
Do you have a link to the article? I like to collect these things. I think it would be fun to have a constant Twitter feed of everything the church buys.
Glad to know that Jesus needs a Florida property. I guess when the Big Man needs some time away from Missouri, he can just pop over to FL and catch some rays. /s
And the Lord^tm spake unto the rich man and said, ‘Verily, I say unto you, unless thou sellest all that thou possess and follow me, so that we mayest use that money to purchase all these fresh condos in South Florida so that we may charge excessive rent and return our investment with usury, you cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven^tm.
Can you tell me where I can read more about the church buying the property in Hawaii after the fires? I’m curious did they actually do it to help the people or to take away and develop? I’m scared to know the answer. :/
It I am just going to erase this whole thing. Too much explaining. But I’ll leave it up for you to read. Because I wish none of what I ever said was true.
With the name of the building being the Ellsworth and Ellsworth being a big Mormon name, this looks more like a friendly buy out. Someone who is Mormon had something to do with the original construction and naming of this complex.
I figured another real estate acquisition was in the works because The Church News just announced $55.8 million for a “women and children initiative”.
At least it’s 35% of this purchase.
Isn’t that DEI? 🤡
The U of U just had to close the women’s center thanks to the Mormon legislature. Funny that even their church is a little less bigoted and hateful than they are…
Post paywall article
https://archive.is/2024.07.02-122950/https://www.bisnow.com/south-florida/news/deal-sheet/this-weeks-south-florida-deal-sheet-124934
How is this not a shelf breaker for more people? I kind of understand having the tithing money in a CD or something to beat inflation, but this is completely unacceptable.
https://www.gulflive.com/news/2024/03/how-a-religious-organization-became-floridas-largest-private-landowner.html They need to be taxed. I’m a small business owner. I don’t think it should be a thing that I possibly should have to compete with an organization that has tax free funds to use.
Exactly the MFMC is a real estate and securities hedge fund masquerading as a church in order to be tax exempt.
This latest real estate purchase is more than they spend on humanitarian aid annually. This isn't how a church is supposed to act.
Go easy on them geez. We pay 10% so they can avoid the 6% real estate commish.
Yeah well that and the $6-$7 BILLION all tax free annually that they rob from the Duped TBMs $$$ that ought to be going towards retirement savings rather than going to fund real estate investment ventures and playing the Stock market. . The church would be more accurately named GREED INC .
Enjoying the benefits of capitalism while evading all the costs and responsibilities, just like Jesus. As a homeowner who cares about the younger generation, I'm sickened by what investors are doing to the price of housing. Hedge funds are buying up housing units faster than humans are in some areas.
And look at the church being part of the problem.
It definitely shouldn't be that way. I understand small businesses not paying tax, but once you hit a certain threshold of a large size it absolutely should be a thing and not have tax breaks
Property Reserve is actually taxed. But their one and only investor/owner is not. So they essentially raise investment capital tax free which literally no other kind of business in the world gets to do besides religion.
I feel exactly the same way. There's so many reasons they should be taxed. But they aren't alone. So many organizations, both public and private, are buying up everything.
YES!!!! I often feel helpless realizing I am competing against churches and corporations just in my daily living. I cannot imagine the pain small business owners feel in having very real competition with organizations that have massive tax benefits and exemptions. My heart goes out to you and others in your camp.
Property Reserve Inc is a for-profit entity (owned by the church) and is taxed as such.
Yeah that’s what they said about their insurance businesses. And they got fined for using interest off of tithing money. Churches have no business owning businesses. Unless it’s a legit charity, which almost doesn’t exist.
> they need to be taxed You stated this previously. Are you arguing that none of the church’s for-profit businesses are taxed?
I’m arguing the church doesn’t have any business running for profit business’s. And to go any further, no church should be able too. edit- and considering they’ve been caught cheating….
Ok. That’s your opinion but your opinion doesn’t reflect the current tax code in the US, which allows religions to own for-profit business entities. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf You’ll have to talk to congress to see if they will create legislation that reflects your opinion. Downvoting me for stating the facts, doesn’t help your cause.
Weirdo, I understand it’s legal now. It shouldn’t be. It never worked nor it should. Your argument is they’re paying tax’s, but they don’t. They literally got fined the weakest amount for breaking those rules. https://www.npr.org/2021/04/05/984527939/mormon-church-misused-donors-money-says-federal-lawsuit
> weirdo I refuse to waste my time having a conversation with someone that can’t be civil, or ignores facts. Later.
Since the Mormon Church is a restored version of Jesus’ church, I wonder what Jesus called HIS for-profit entities back in the day…
I’m going out of my fucking mind right now. I’m sickened. I’m PIMO so by staying quiet, I’m endorsing this bullshit. These motherfuckers don’t know when to quit. They don’t give two shits about bad press. It’s them who are being the assholes, not me. They can’t control themselves. The SEC ruling didn’t do anything to humble them and their financial ambitions. God damn them.
> They don’t give two shits about bad press. They seemed to have taken this stance. The previous modus operandi was to never sully the good name of the church. Now it seems they relish bad press.
They aren’t under any illusions that people are joining the church anymore. One internet search is enough for normal people to say no thanks. They’d rather have the money and power than the respect.
> They aren’t under any illusions that people are joining the church anymore I think that ship sailed roughly 1995.
Warning: SA > The Associated Press obtained nearly 12,000 pages of sealed records from an unrelated child sex abuse lawsuit against the Mormon church in West Virginia, which show that the help line is part of a system that can easily be misused by church leaders to divert abuse accusations against church members away from law enforcement and instead to church attorneys, who may bury the problem, leaving victims in harm’s way. > It was **established in 1995** when legal claims of sex abuse against churches were on the rise. > Officials of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said in sworn statements included in the sealed records that the help line is staffed by social workers who destroy records of all calls at the close of each day. ([Source](https://web.archive.org/web/20240524221548/apnews.com/article/mormon-church-sexual-abuse-takeaways-f01fba7521ddddffa89622668b54ac10)) So yeah, 1995 is one of *many* good demarcation points of how depraved they've convinced themselves it's ok to be.
In the late 90s we were still baptizing full families and people who were accomplished enough that they went straight in to leadership. Now it’s just desperate single moms, single guys on house arrest, & 9 year olds.
What do you mean by 'desperate single moms'? What are they desperate for?
To keep their families fed. I grew up food insecure, and it can mean extremes not to let one's child slip into malnutrition - even joining a cult for access to the bishop's store.
Not sure. You’d have to ask them. But it’s absolutely a thing. There were 3 at church this last Sunday. When we lived in Tacoma, there were new ones every week. Whatever it is they’re looking for, they aren’t gonna find it tho.
They're looking for a breadwinner man while they stay and raise their babies. Exactly who my ex married.
Why are we here bashing women who are raising children on their own? These are strong women. Why assume they are poor or desperate for food, a man or anything? Maybe they are looking for a bit of support and a good lifestyle as they do their best to raise the children. Someone has recommended the church as a good thing for kids and families and they will soon find out that they will be looked down upon in the church just as they are being bashed on this thread. Where are the fathers of these little ones?
Nobody’s bashing women. At all. Read it again. Some people are so sensitive that they read offense where there’s none there. These women are desperate and tricked because they are vulnerable. They’re victims. That was 100% clear in my statement.
I'm not bashing on them. It's an attractive option for some people. I personally don't like my kids' new stepmother, but her marrying an engineer with kids is a good move on her part. Especially since she wants to be a stay at home mom. She's also a convert that got suckered into joining the church because they were nice to her. I'll judge her on that one, but I also understand getting suckered by seemingly nice people. I will also say my ex isn't an abusive asshole. We are just wildly mismatched for each other, and felt like we were the only options. His new wife seems to be way closer to the trad wife he wanted. I'm a fuckin weirdo that he got stuck with. *shrugs*
Sure. It’s free. They like free shit. Bastards.
Used to feel like that too. Then I got out. I'm not letting them claim my support and membership backing for all the bullshit they do. I know it's a small thing in the grand scheme, but I definitely feel less conflicted.
You can't humble a human being or a corporation that's traits are narcissistic, psychopathic & machivellian.
lets talk optics... a "church", that would not allow black male members to hold its highest "priesthood" until 1978, has purchased an apartment complex in a municipality named "Plantation". irony much???
That's the opposite of irony. It's prophecy.
I believe The only reason they changed that was because they were going to lose their tax exemption or some shit.
Correct
That is exactly right... Back in 1978 the federal government informed the LDS Church that unless it allowed blacks full membership (including the priesthood) they would have to cease calling themselves a non-profit organization and start paying income taxes. On $16.5 million a day in tithing alone that’s a lot of tax monies that could be better used in building up the Kingdom of God.
I've posted these comments multi-times & I will continue to every time they expand their world wide real estate empire. Every year the homeless die of heatstroke or freeze to death a block or two away from Temple Square & the Church Administration Bldg (CAB). Q15 & 70 walk out of the CAB & cross the street to City Creek Mall that church leaders spent est. $ 1.5 Billion + to build. Q15/70 etc... have lunch or dinner and shop at Tiffany's, Louis Vuitton, Nordstrom, Restoration Hardware, Macys,etc... The church has no "Not for profit" hospitals (Google St. Judes Hospital for example) no cooling/heating locations for homeless, no free food banks, no men or women homeless shelters, no free medical clinics or gift cards for gas, etc... Church leaders refuse to help even middle class, lower middle class or the poor in their wards & stakes. I've lived in 2-3% income bracket wards/stakes & they do anything & everything to help these high paying tithe priesthood holders/families when they hit a bump/pothole in the road of life. If the church does help you & your the other 97% & the majority of church members you must pay them back in free labor & tithe 10% & grovel. The number of homeless in Utah is obscene. Single women with children & women over 58 are getting hit extremely hard. Q15/70 live in 7+ figure homes & many have second or a 3rd home in Midway where they can flee to cool off from the desert floor heat while everyone else literally roasts. Mormon hierarchy has obviously never read the New Testament. Evil. How is this behavior by a "non-profit church" & it's leaders any different than the political & ruling class in Russia, China, North Korea, etc....
City Creek (allegedly) cost about a billion to build (not $250B+).
250b is their total net worth
Or possibly >$300B-$350B
[удалено]
This sub is really good about fact checking and aligning with reality. I just don’t want any TBMs to look over here and claim that we are peddling inaccurate data and claim to be victims of misinformation.
When god said to provide shelter, he meant at a reasonable rate of return. /s
😅
🙌
God also goes by the name Le Chiffre.
Cuz he hits you right in the balls?
I would have preferred that to what I got.
# There's absolutely no reason for you to pay anymore tithing!!!
exactly! thankfully my TBM wife doesn't bring it up anymore when we go over budget.
A prophet of God said that once the church had enough they wouldn't ask for tithing anymore. I guess God changed his mind.
He does that all the time in this cult- I mean religion
So is Florida the new Zion?
I cannot wait for these to be filled with the destitute, the down trodden, the poor and humble among the inhabitants of the earth. These shall glorify God by providing for those who have not place to lay their heads. Oh wait…
BIG AND SPACIOUS BUILDING
I came to say this!
Ah yes, Jesus commanding his apostles to buy an apartment complex for $133 million is one of my favorite stories in the New Testament. 
 Now Mormons and Scientologists be like…..
“Godzirra!” 🤣
Does anyone have a running tally of large commercial purchases like this in 2024? I'd love to compare it to their "charitable giving" at the end of the year.
Google Widows Mite Mormon I think it's widowsmite.wordpress.com? It's all accountants, professionals,etc... & the break down on church assets is spot on. Salt Lake Tribune uses their site as a source and credits the site in their investigative articles on the church.
I'm aware of WM, but I was wondering if anyone had a list of this year to date. WM is absolutely amazing, I love it, but their data is only from Previous quarters and years. I guess I can always wait for the reports to be compiled
Idk what's more sinister... the heads of the church doing shit like this, or the fact they've successfully continued a 200-year long scam so well, that the majority of church members who look into events like this and the SEC filings of the church etc will simply write it off as "evidence" of this being God's one true church, because they're THAT deeply indoctrinated. Jim Jones ain't had nothing on the mormom church. Why kill em when you could indoctrinate entire families and entire sections of the world for generations, securing their convictions, time, money, and labor, all for free, and you get to reap all the benefits of that, all you have to do is put on a good act publically?
So Jesus is retiring to Florida? 😉
Do you have a link to the article? I like to collect these things. I think it would be fun to have a constant Twitter feed of everything the church buys.
Please share if you end up doing it.
https://www.bisnow.com/south-florida/news/deal-sheet/this-weeks-south-florida-deal-sheet-124934
https://www.bisnow.com/south-florida/news/deal-sheet/this-weeks-south-florida-deal-sheet-124934
Ah yes. Just as Jesus would. or Ah yes. Just as the prophecy foretold.
Can you imagine, part of the lease agreement is to get baptized lmao.
The church needs to use up all of their hidden portfolio funding somehow 🙄. Corruption at its finest!
I think they are buying up all the Florida real estate because some new buried records talk about a third Hill Cumorah.
I served in Broward County. I lived in a roach and flea infested shit hole. These look a lot nicer.
So do living in these apartments requiring signing an honor code? Gonna have some low occupancy rates, if so
Glad to know that Jesus needs a Florida property. I guess when the Big Man needs some time away from Missouri, he can just pop over to FL and catch some rays. /s
Good way to keep people in the cult is to own their homes. But it’s also a great way to ensure revenue stream when cultists leave.
I’m sure it’s to house the homeless, right?
And the Lord^tm spake unto the rich man and said, ‘Verily, I say unto you, unless thou sellest all that thou possess and follow me, so that we mayest use that money to purchase all these fresh condos in South Florida so that we may charge excessive rent and return our investment with usury, you cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven^tm.
They're for housing the homeless, single parents, the elderly, those who are suddenly unemployed, etc. /s (just in case you were wondering)
I could be rich too if none of my income was taxable and I didn’t have to pay property and I get to keep all my tithing I mean my income my bad ! 😳😩
Close to Costco, check Close to Fort Lauderdale, hello Spring break! lol
*Scientologists perk their heads up in alarm*
[удалено]
Can you tell me where I can read more about the church buying the property in Hawaii after the fires? I’m curious did they actually do it to help the people or to take away and develop? I’m scared to know the answer. :/
It I am just going to erase this whole thing. Too much explaining. But I’ll leave it up for you to read. Because I wish none of what I ever said was true.
That’s impressive considering Disney at one time had their own town (before DeSatan attacked them)…
Theyre the largest private non-contiguous land owner in the US.
With the name of the building being the Ellsworth and Ellsworth being a big Mormon name, this looks more like a friendly buy out. Someone who is Mormon had something to do with the original construction and naming of this complex.
I figured another real estate acquisition was in the works because The Church News just announced $55.8 million for a “women and children initiative”. At least it’s 35% of this purchase.
Isn’t that DEI? 🤡 The U of U just had to close the women’s center thanks to the Mormon legislature. Funny that even their church is a little less bigoted and hateful than they are…
Article here; https://www.bisnow.com/south-florida/news/deal-sheet/this-weeks-south-florida-deal-sheet-124934
Post paywall article https://archive.is/2024.07.02-122950/https://www.bisnow.com/south-florida/news/deal-sheet/this-weeks-south-florida-deal-sheet-124934
Fuck the Mormon cult
How is this not a shelf breaker for more people? I kind of understand having the tithing money in a CD or something to beat inflation, but this is completely unacceptable.
Hey take it easy on them. They gotta buy a bitchin’ house for Jesus when he returns