This. Absolutely this. [My side of the EEOC story.](https://deirdre.net/2012/once-upon-a-time/) and [my husband’s recounting of the events that led up to my eventual firing](http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/essays/preipo.html).
It's more complicated than this. If the company had fewer than 15 employees, the federal law doesn't apply as employers of that size are effectively allowed to discriminate from a federal standpoint. Possible Utah has a more strict law.
All these years and I never knew that in order for the anti-discrimination rules of the 1964 Civil Rights Act to apply, the employer in question must have at least 15 employees. Thanks for clarifying.
I would frankly be shocked if Utah were stricter than the Federal Government in this regard. Massachusetts or California perhaps. Utah? I highly unlikely.
Thanks, this is good to know. This was 2 years ago, and I found his inquiry so off putting that I didn’t ever reach out again. Do you think there’s still a shot at compensation? Our interview wasn’t recorded, but he was very zealous, and it’s likely he’d openly admit to it again.
No it is also illegal for a small company, unless that company’s purpose is religious. If you’re making a non-spiritual app, you are not a religious company. Do not pretend there is some loophole for small companies.
There, quite literally, is a “loophole.” A company must employ more than 15 individuals before title VII applies. At least know what you’re talking about before acting like a know it all jackass.
Yup yup. A friend of mine tried to get into a vocal studio as a part time voice teacher, the studio being a LDS friendly but not associated company, and super small. As a gay pagan, obviously, that doesn’t jive with the church, but he was well groomed and over qualified, and they were so condescending and said that he’d corrupt the kids, so wouldn’t be a good example or employee for the company 🙄
*Maybe.* I am not an employment law attorney, but my understanding is that Title VII religious discrimination protections apply to companies with 15 or more employees. OP did mention that the company was small so it might be exempt.
Yup, exactly!
If I lived in Utah I’d be recording all my interviews for this very reason. Unfortunately Utah isn’t a true one party state regarding that but there are several instances where you can record the other party without their consent it seems
The same thing happened to me in 1980, and it was as illegal then as it is now. In my case I handled it much differently... I had gone to school in software programming and I had been out pounding the pavement looking for my first career job and having zero luck. One of my teachers at school was in contact with an old Seminary teacher of mine who had a software company and we set up an interview
As soon as we sat down, he said "I look for three things in an employee:
1. They are a full-time active Mormon (it was okay to use that word in those days!)
2. They are a full-time tithe payer
3. They know a little bit about computers.
At that point in time, my new wife and I had recently married in the temple (back in the days when there were more creepy things going on) and we had no testimony at all and planned on leaving. Nevertheless, my desperation for getting my first job was first and foremost in my mind. So I sucked it up and said yes to all of the questions. Then my wife and I joined a local university singles ward, which was more fun than anything serious. I rode that job for one year and used it as a springboard to get the hell out of there. I'm not positive I would handle it the same way today.
I don't give a crap about doxing that asshole Larry Bair, has he built a pretty major company in the industry and has served several missions. I've wanted to write him a letter all of these many years later (and he is a very old man by now), but the only reason I don't is because I've got family that still lives there and I'm sure it would get back to them. I really resent his spiritual blackmail to this day.
What were you programming in 1980? it doesn’t seem like there were that many programming jobs in that early stage of the computer revolution. Obviously, most computers were pieces of shit in 1980.
Ultimate, a flavor of the Pick OS. That company is still very much around on a similar platform. They managed to maintain some market dominance over the years.
My experience has been negative with employers like this, they have the mindset that they are doing you a huge favor by employing you and take advantage any way they can. Good luck getting a fair wage or not working yourself to burnout.
It is illegal under federal law to ask about religion in a job interview unless that company's purpose is religious.
You could turn them in to the US Equal Opportunity Commission.
I interviewed at a company, made it through several rounds, and finally got to meet with the CEO. In his office was a picture of Hinckley and Big Old Mormon Jesus™️ He started each work day with a devotional. Even though about half the people weren’t LDS. I didn’t end up getting the job and was very glad in the end.
Everybody's up in arms about the question—which is indubitably a shitty question to ask—but the fact of the matter is if a company doesn't have at least 15 employees they there is no federal law that prohibits them from discriminating based on any of the following:
* race
* color
* religion
* sex (including pregnancy, sexual orientation, or gender identity)
* national origin
* disability and genetic information (including family medical history)
* age
Based on OP's description, the CEO is guilty of asking a shitty question. But nothing they described could be construed as a federal employment law violation.
I interviewed for a marketing role at HP a while back and it was clear the hiring manager was LDS. Kind of played up my “mormon” links and he never asked a direct question since he knew it was illegal. As a Spanish speaker from SLC, he thought for sure I was a member. He was a bit surprised to find me drinking a beer at a company event a few days after I was hired! Wonderful guy but there is definitely a bias towards “members” in hiring, especially in Utah County.
Absolutely. Being outwardly mormon has served me well insude morridor. Outside? It would be much tougher. Although early in my career outside of morridor, I was hired by another byu graduate. I know the reason I was hired was because of being mormon.
Faith has no place in business and is illegal to bring up in an interview or professional atmosphere like that. Period. If he wasn't in Utah, he most likely would have been reported.
Not just illegal, but a good way to take advantage of your employees. There's a reason Utah is the MLM capital. You're told over and over again to trust your fellow Mormons and doubt your doubts and all that garbage.
Also doesn't sound like they really know what they want. Computers are magic!
I work remotely, and most of my coworkers are from the eastern half of the US. It’s really nice to be around non-Mormons all day. I hope you can find that too
That kind of stuff happens a lot in Utah, whether it's legal or not. Sometimes, they really think they're being clever. My personal policy is if I can use the fact that I look like the RS president to get something small that I want, I go with the flow. If I have to keep up the charade for more than 20 minutes, I leave the situation. Getting some free food, a better place in line, or a little extra service is fine. It's on them for offering perks with perceived membership.
“Yes, ‘Brother’ I’m full to the brim and overflowing with faith.”
“My faith? It’s QUITE full, thank you for asking.”
Then wink at him and kinda giggle, tell him about the funny thing your primary kids did last Sunday.
Once worked with a boss who did the opposite tactic, though still quite illegal tactic. This was back in the day when help wanted ads in newspapers was still relevant. He'd put an ad for a programmer in the Salt Lake Tribune and in Deseret News. At the end of the interview, he'd ask which newspaper ad they read. He'd only hire out of the Trib's readership. Ended up with a workforce of ex's, nevers, and PIMOs.
I'll never forget interviewing for a job in SLC when I was first married, over 25+ years ago. It was in long term care marketing- interviews had come down to myself and a much-older man. The two men who were interviewing me told me I was clearly the "stand-out applicant," however they were hesitant to hire me because "you're a newly married young woman and it's likely you'll be pregnant soon- we really can't have that situation here because we need reliable employees." I didn't get the job and was too young/inexperienced to know what to do about it.
What I wouldn't give to go back to that interview today... would immediately go to an attorney and get a nice payout.
I’m sorry you experienced that! I was up for a promotion & was asked how I was going to travel & handle childcare for my child ( I was a single mother) I asked my boss if he had been asked that question … meanwhile, I didn’t get that particular promotion and every time my boss travelled, his wife ,with their two kids at home, called me for assistance—- she couldn’t manage life w/o him…babysitting her & their kids w/o any remuneration! Corporate America was not always a friendly place for women back in the day…
Note to anyone if this happens ever again, you seriously need to report them, or things like this will keep happening to people. This is blatantly illegal, blatant discrimination.
in the small echo chamber pond of mormon dumb think its ok to check the 'worthiness' of anyone by the standards put forth by men who amassed billions on the backs of unsuspecting fools such as he. The same men choose to retain a law firm that actively thwart any S A allegations, whether true or not, whether there is demonstrable harm or not, defaulting to the aiding and abetting the side of the perpetrators. So for someone to make that batshit crazy narrative of mormonism a part of their hiring process is a dumpster fire prospect. You dodged a bullet.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act prohibits this from being legal. 100% illegal of him to ask. Do what the top commenter said and call employment office. They’re allowed to be a religious-based private company, but they can’t personally ask you about your own religious beliefs.
>Isn’t that kinda weird and unprofessional to ask about faith?
More than that, it is illegal to discriminate based on that. It is illegal to ask discriminatory questions that are not related to the job during the interview process, and starting business meetings with prayer creates a hostile work environment for nonreligious people.
I can't imagine that business lasted long.
It’s dumb and unprofessional, but in reality these small companies with a founder and a few employees can essentially do what they want with not much more than slap on the wrist.
I had a job back in my young TBM days where the owner of the company was some variety of Christian. I can’t remember which. He hired a company pastor who would go around to everyone once a week and pray for them. When he got to my office I told him that I could pray for myself and wasn’t interested in his services. I ruffled some feathers with that!
Tell them I’m faithful that the sun will rise tomorrow and that night follows day . if they are a tiny company your better off not working for them anyway consider it as dodging a bullet you don’t want to be surrounded by a bunch of fully brainwashed religious assholes anyway
I said “what?” out loud while reading your post. Yeah, that is not normal. I’ve never been told that by a potential employer, even having lived in Mormon bubbles in Idaho and Utah for a long time. I am pretty sure imposing one’s faith at work like that is not allowed? I don’t know…
"I really love working for companies where I have faith of their vision of the where we are going and the future we're making!" -- make it look like you read it as a company question and you admit nothing. :)
what you’ve described is actually illegal under various labor laws in the usa. asking people about things like religion, marriage status, medical conditions, age, etc during job interviews is not ok
Illegality of this shit aside...
> They wanted to make some revolutionary app that would “gamify” the learning/memorization process.
Yikes, yet another Silicon Slopes^(TM) finance bro, who thinks he's a ***genius*** for reinventing a shitty clone of Duolingo
You'd be better off working for wish.com; at least they know what their knockoffs are worth
to be fair, you’ll be working with the CEO a majority of the time if you took the job. While its illegal to decide whether to employ you based on on your faith, the CEO really is making the matchmaking better by putting this out early on. It could have been worse if 3 months into the company, you start realizing that your boss talks about church all the time and wants to quit because of that
This is really unacceptable. I had a coworker in a large organization reach out to me via cell phone to express her "concern" for me and the amount of stress I seemed to be under. She was convinced that as it seemed I was not observing and living the guidelines of the gospel, that my situation could be much improved by committing myself to it all.
But no actually, I really was put upon at work, and acting ethically in order to serve those in my sphere, meeting needs of others ahead of my own. There really wasn't a great way out of that unless it was against my code of ehics; doing less than I saw was truly needed.
Anyway, I was on my way out and while this lady stayed faithful, a few seasons later met some extreme stress of her own. God and the church didn't save her from it either.
The church doesn't have a corner on the market where good works, ethical conduct, or quality of life are concerned. I wish more people knew that.
I would have quickly said, "I'm atheist." I suppose it's good to know up front what you're dealing with. I would not feel comfortable working with a bunch of religious nuts. I once had to get physical therapy at a place where all the therapists had prayer together, talked non-stop about their religious activities. When asked if I had a church home, I said no. They then enthusiastically invited me to their church at which time I looked them in the eye and said emphatically, "I'm atheist." I will not give my business to companies who make a point of their religions. I certainly wouldn't work for one.
I understand those who have a mission for their career which includes some religious undertones. Living in Missouri I know of several businesses who proudly tout that they “knew God led them to open a business” (and this was a tattoo parlor)
But to ask if you’re an active member? That is beyond what is allowed from an interviewer. Gross.
They can't fire you based on religion.
But if they chose to include prayers as part of the opening process, they can't force you to pray. That is them forcing their beliefs on you. But if you are disruptive during the process those opportunities would be made unavailable to you because you are unwilling to do it.
It's going to be a cultural balancing act of tolerance.
Don't be a butthead, and they can't fire you. If they pray, you don't have to fold your hands and take a prayer stance with them if you don't want to but being loud and obnoxious during it is cultural intolerance.
But they will be a stick in the mud and try to find ways to fire you or get you to leave. Do be careful if you choose to stay. It can get "holier than thou" toxic fairly easily.
Utah law mimics federal law on this issue
https://laborcommission.utah.gov/divisions/utah-antidiscrimination-and-labor-uald/employment-discrimination/#:~:text=The%20Utah%20Antidiscrimination%20Act%20prohibits,childbirth%20or%20pregnancy%2Drelated%20conditions.
Run away! Fast! Are you SERIOUSLY considering subjecting yourself to that? Next would come a description of an Op Ed piece I was planning on sending the news outlets about the lack of separation of church and state at this place of employment. It's all SO gross!
This sucks, but I see you mentioned Utah. I'm christian and not mormon so they most likely would not even like a christian person. They want a mormon and nothing else.
thats fucking bullshit. he has a bias based on his religious practices. either the fucking idiot doesn't know the law or he things that gods law overrules it
I worked for a company in Northern Utah where the CEO offered mormon prayers prior to almost every thing we did. I lasted 2 months before noping out of that environment but it was surprising to me how many secular employees just went along with it to keep their jobs knowing damn well it wasn't right 🤷🏻♀️
My Mom told me she had a similar question in an interview for an elementary school position. She just said, "yes" with a smile, even though she's been inactive for decades.
Wow, how long ago was this?
East Coast here , 15 years or more ago. I was so excited to had gotten an interview with the top law firm in our little county. Walked in so excited and the lady who let me in says, “oh here you are, ms. “Smith” well you are a good little Mormon girl, aren’t you?”
When that same thing sort of happened to me I almost wondered if it was a “test” being that it was a law firm or something, but it was a menial secretarial position so nope they were just being nosy and rude
File a report with the Dept of Workforce Services and the Department of Labor. You might get some cash out of that douchnozzle.
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Contact the local office: https://www.eeoc.gov/field-office
This. Absolutely this. [My side of the EEOC story.](https://deirdre.net/2012/once-upon-a-time/) and [my husband’s recounting of the events that led up to my eventual firing](http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/essays/preipo.html).
It's more complicated than this. If the company had fewer than 15 employees, the federal law doesn't apply as employers of that size are effectively allowed to discriminate from a federal standpoint. Possible Utah has a more strict law.
All these years and I never knew that in order for the anti-discrimination rules of the 1964 Civil Rights Act to apply, the employer in question must have at least 15 employees. Thanks for clarifying.
I would frankly be shocked if Utah were stricter than the Federal Government in this regard. Massachusetts or California perhaps. Utah? I highly unlikely.
This is true my wife was fired from a small start up for being pregnant and having a baby. Less than 15 can do anything they want to you.
Thanks, this is good to know. This was 2 years ago, and I found his inquiry so off putting that I didn’t ever reach out again. Do you think there’s still a shot at compensation? Our interview wasn’t recorded, but he was very zealous, and it’s likely he’d openly admit to it again.
To be fair I doubt that the company even exists anymore.
If they had less than ~15 employees, then they're probably allowed to discriminate since the EEOC wouldn't apply
Statute of limitations is four years as I understand it.
Is the company still in business? Most startups fail.
Even if you don’t get money you can still smear them and hopefully it will protect other who unfortunately get a job there.
In most states as far as I know it is illegal.
It's illegal in every state.
For now, anyway 🫤
It's a federal law so it is illegal in every state.
The EEOC only comes into effect with a company of more than 15 employees. Based on the post it doesn’t sound like they even had enough employees.
It's not only unprofessional, it's not legal in large corporations. A small company has more latitude, but it's still in poor taste.
No it is also illegal for a small company, unless that company’s purpose is religious. If you’re making a non-spiritual app, you are not a religious company. Do not pretend there is some loophole for small companies.
Nope, title VII of the civil rights act only applies to companies with more than 15 employees.
Thank you - now we know I wasn't "pretending."
Interesting TIL, thanks!
There, quite literally, is a “loophole.” A company must employ more than 15 individuals before title VII applies. At least know what you’re talking about before acting like a know it all jackass.
I was wrong, didn’t fully understand it. Happy to learn. Jumping to name calling and assuming negative intent doesn’t seem required.
Yup yup. A friend of mine tried to get into a vocal studio as a part time voice teacher, the studio being a LDS friendly but not associated company, and super small. As a gay pagan, obviously, that doesn’t jive with the church, but he was well groomed and over qualified, and they were so condescending and said that he’d corrupt the kids, so wouldn’t be a good example or employee for the company 🙄
Not only icky, illegal
*Maybe.* I am not an employment law attorney, but my understanding is that Title VII religious discrimination protections apply to companies with 15 or more employees. OP did mention that the company was small so it might be exempt.
Yes you are exactly right
Yup, exactly! If I lived in Utah I’d be recording all my interviews for this very reason. Unfortunately Utah isn’t a true one party state regarding that but there are several instances where you can record the other party without their consent it seems
The same thing happened to me in 1980, and it was as illegal then as it is now. In my case I handled it much differently... I had gone to school in software programming and I had been out pounding the pavement looking for my first career job and having zero luck. One of my teachers at school was in contact with an old Seminary teacher of mine who had a software company and we set up an interview As soon as we sat down, he said "I look for three things in an employee: 1. They are a full-time active Mormon (it was okay to use that word in those days!) 2. They are a full-time tithe payer 3. They know a little bit about computers. At that point in time, my new wife and I had recently married in the temple (back in the days when there were more creepy things going on) and we had no testimony at all and planned on leaving. Nevertheless, my desperation for getting my first job was first and foremost in my mind. So I sucked it up and said yes to all of the questions. Then my wife and I joined a local university singles ward, which was more fun than anything serious. I rode that job for one year and used it as a springboard to get the hell out of there. I'm not positive I would handle it the same way today. I don't give a crap about doxing that asshole Larry Bair, has he built a pretty major company in the industry and has served several missions. I've wanted to write him a letter all of these many years later (and he is a very old man by now), but the only reason I don't is because I've got family that still lives there and I'm sure it would get back to them. I really resent his spiritual blackmail to this day.
Wow, it’s shocking hear so many other people have had similar experiences with this!
Columbia Ultimate Business Systems
Yeah, no love lost. Living happily ever after.
What were you programming in 1980? it doesn’t seem like there were that many programming jobs in that early stage of the computer revolution. Obviously, most computers were pieces of shit in 1980.
Ultimate, a flavor of the Pick OS. That company is still very much around on a similar platform. They managed to maintain some market dominance over the years.
What even is this question? Modern computer applications didn't just arrive by magic one day.
 I wouldn't want that job
My experience has been negative with employers like this, they have the mindset that they are doing you a huge favor by employing you and take advantage any way they can. Good luck getting a fair wage or not working yourself to burnout.
They’ll pay you at the “law of consecration” rate.
This is true they use the big daddy church corporation as their guide how to treat employee/volunteers.
I can’t stop laughing at that gif. It’s perfect. 😂🤣
It is illegal under federal law to ask about religion in a job interview unless that company's purpose is religious. You could turn them in to the US Equal Opportunity Commission.
I worked for a small company that would start every meeting with a prayer. Fuckin wild.
This is elementary school stuff.
I interviewed at a company, made it through several rounds, and finally got to meet with the CEO. In his office was a picture of Hinckley and Big Old Mormon Jesus™️ He started each work day with a devotional. Even though about half the people weren’t LDS. I didn’t end up getting the job and was very glad in the end.
True, honestly dodged a bullet in the end! I’m starting to feel like I did too!
Everybody's up in arms about the question—which is indubitably a shitty question to ask—but the fact of the matter is if a company doesn't have at least 15 employees they there is no federal law that prohibits them from discriminating based on any of the following: * race * color * religion * sex (including pregnancy, sexual orientation, or gender identity) * national origin * disability and genetic information (including family medical history) * age Based on OP's description, the CEO is guilty of asking a shitty question. But nothing they described could be construed as a federal employment law violation.
[удалено]
There’s a King of the Hill Episode about it. Hank has to quit so the boss can fire an alcoholic that won’t do any work.
I interviewed for a marketing role at HP a while back and it was clear the hiring manager was LDS. Kind of played up my “mormon” links and he never asked a direct question since he knew it was illegal. As a Spanish speaker from SLC, he thought for sure I was a member. He was a bit surprised to find me drinking a beer at a company event a few days after I was hired! Wonderful guy but there is definitely a bias towards “members” in hiring, especially in Utah County.
Absolutely. Being outwardly mormon has served me well insude morridor. Outside? It would be much tougher. Although early in my career outside of morridor, I was hired by another byu graduate. I know the reason I was hired was because of being mormon.
Faith has no place in business and is illegal to bring up in an interview or professional atmosphere like that. Period. If he wasn't in Utah, he most likely would have been reported.
Not just illegal, but a good way to take advantage of your employees. There's a reason Utah is the MLM capital. You're told over and over again to trust your fellow Mormons and doubt your doubts and all that garbage. Also doesn't sound like they really know what they want. Computers are magic!
I work remotely, and most of my coworkers are from the eastern half of the US. It’s really nice to be around non-Mormons all day. I hope you can find that too
That kind of stuff happens a lot in Utah, whether it's legal or not. Sometimes, they really think they're being clever. My personal policy is if I can use the fact that I look like the RS president to get something small that I want, I go with the flow. If I have to keep up the charade for more than 20 minutes, I leave the situation. Getting some free food, a better place in line, or a little extra service is fine. It's on them for offering perks with perceived membership.
“Yes, ‘Brother’ I’m full to the brim and overflowing with faith.” “My faith? It’s QUITE full, thank you for asking.” Then wink at him and kinda giggle, tell him about the funny thing your primary kids did last Sunday.
Once worked with a boss who did the opposite tactic, though still quite illegal tactic. This was back in the day when help wanted ads in newspapers was still relevant. He'd put an ad for a programmer in the Salt Lake Tribune and in Deseret News. At the end of the interview, he'd ask which newspaper ad they read. He'd only hire out of the Trib's readership. Ended up with a workforce of ex's, nevers, and PIMOs.
Sounds like Tim Ballard… you dodged a bullet, imo.
I'll never forget interviewing for a job in SLC when I was first married, over 25+ years ago. It was in long term care marketing- interviews had come down to myself and a much-older man. The two men who were interviewing me told me I was clearly the "stand-out applicant," however they were hesitant to hire me because "you're a newly married young woman and it's likely you'll be pregnant soon- we really can't have that situation here because we need reliable employees." I didn't get the job and was too young/inexperienced to know what to do about it. What I wouldn't give to go back to that interview today... would immediately go to an attorney and get a nice payout.
I’m sorry you experienced that! I was up for a promotion & was asked how I was going to travel & handle childcare for my child ( I was a single mother) I asked my boss if he had been asked that question … meanwhile, I didn’t get that particular promotion and every time my boss travelled, his wife ,with their two kids at home, called me for assistance—- she couldn’t manage life w/o him…babysitting her & their kids w/o any remuneration! Corporate America was not always a friendly place for women back in the day…
it's not "weird and unprofessional". it's religious discrimination. it's illegal.
This is an EEO violation and should be reported. Religion has no place in such a workforce.
Note to anyone if this happens ever again, you seriously need to report them, or things like this will keep happening to people. This is blatantly illegal, blatant discrimination.
My Christian boss has done this too.
in the small echo chamber pond of mormon dumb think its ok to check the 'worthiness' of anyone by the standards put forth by men who amassed billions on the backs of unsuspecting fools such as he. The same men choose to retain a law firm that actively thwart any S A allegations, whether true or not, whether there is demonstrable harm or not, defaulting to the aiding and abetting the side of the perpetrators. So for someone to make that batshit crazy narrative of mormonism a part of their hiring process is a dumpster fire prospect. You dodged a bullet.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act prohibits this from being legal. 100% illegal of him to ask. Do what the top commenter said and call employment office. They’re allowed to be a religious-based private company, but they can’t personally ask you about your own religious beliefs.
>Isn’t that kinda weird and unprofessional to ask about faith? More than that, it is illegal to discriminate based on that. It is illegal to ask discriminatory questions that are not related to the job during the interview process, and starting business meetings with prayer creates a hostile work environment for nonreligious people. I can't imagine that business lasted long.
It’s dumb and unprofessional, but in reality these small companies with a founder and a few employees can essentially do what they want with not much more than slap on the wrist.
I had a job back in my young TBM days where the owner of the company was some variety of Christian. I can’t remember which. He hired a company pastor who would go around to everyone once a week and pray for them. When he got to my office I told him that I could pray for myself and wasn’t interested in his services. I ruffled some feathers with that!
Run, run, run away.
Not only is it weird, it’s illegal. FFS…
Tell them I’m faithful that the sun will rise tomorrow and that night follows day . if they are a tiny company your better off not working for them anyway consider it as dodging a bullet you don’t want to be surrounded by a bunch of fully brainwashed religious assholes anyway
Illegal. File a complaint and this will create a bridge for others.
I said “what?” out loud while reading your post. Yeah, that is not normal. I’ve never been told that by a potential employer, even having lived in Mormon bubbles in Idaho and Utah for a long time. I am pretty sure imposing one’s faith at work like that is not allowed? I don’t know…
>Isn’t that kinda weird and unprofessional to ask about faith? Uhhh, it's illegal. You should have sued them.
"I really love working for companies where I have faith of their vision of the where we are going and the future we're making!" -- make it look like you read it as a company question and you admit nothing. :)
Sounds illegal. Religion is a protected category.
what you’ve described is actually illegal under various labor laws in the usa. asking people about things like religion, marriage status, medical conditions, age, etc during job interviews is not ok
Not only weird and unprofessional but illegal.
Illegality of this shit aside... > They wanted to make some revolutionary app that would “gamify” the learning/memorization process. Yikes, yet another Silicon Slopes^(TM) finance bro, who thinks he's a ***genius*** for reinventing a shitty clone of Duolingo You'd be better off working for wish.com; at least they know what their knockoffs are worth
I used to be required to recruit at BYU for a large national company. It was a shit-show. Similar stuff to this.
to be fair, you’ll be working with the CEO a majority of the time if you took the job. While its illegal to decide whether to employ you based on on your faith, the CEO really is making the matchmaking better by putting this out early on. It could have been worse if 3 months into the company, you start realizing that your boss talks about church all the time and wants to quit because of that
I once got a job because I was wearing my young women’s medallion. Turns out it was a horrible and extremely judgmental place to work
Did you say “what the fuck” and leave? 😂😂
If that would happen in Europe, they would get a big ass fine and discriminatory lawsuit.
This is really unacceptable. I had a coworker in a large organization reach out to me via cell phone to express her "concern" for me and the amount of stress I seemed to be under. She was convinced that as it seemed I was not observing and living the guidelines of the gospel, that my situation could be much improved by committing myself to it all. But no actually, I really was put upon at work, and acting ethically in order to serve those in my sphere, meeting needs of others ahead of my own. There really wasn't a great way out of that unless it was against my code of ehics; doing less than I saw was truly needed. Anyway, I was on my way out and while this lady stayed faithful, a few seasons later met some extreme stress of her own. God and the church didn't save her from it either. The church doesn't have a corner on the market where good works, ethical conduct, or quality of life are concerned. I wish more people knew that.
I would have quickly said, "I'm atheist." I suppose it's good to know up front what you're dealing with. I would not feel comfortable working with a bunch of religious nuts. I once had to get physical therapy at a place where all the therapists had prayer together, talked non-stop about their religious activities. When asked if I had a church home, I said no. They then enthusiastically invited me to their church at which time I looked them in the eye and said emphatically, "I'm atheist." I will not give my business to companies who make a point of their religions. I certainly wouldn't work for one.
Living in the Deep South taught me to avoid “Christian” companies at all cost. Religion and business do not mix healthily.
Illegal as fuck
It’s illegal is what it is.
You could easily sue him. Surprised you didn't.
I understand those who have a mission for their career which includes some religious undertones. Living in Missouri I know of several businesses who proudly tout that they “knew God led them to open a business” (and this was a tattoo parlor) But to ask if you’re an active member? That is beyond what is allowed from an interviewer. Gross.
Can uou move out of state
They can't fire you based on religion. But if they chose to include prayers as part of the opening process, they can't force you to pray. That is them forcing their beliefs on you. But if you are disruptive during the process those opportunities would be made unavailable to you because you are unwilling to do it. It's going to be a cultural balancing act of tolerance. Don't be a butthead, and they can't fire you. If they pray, you don't have to fold your hands and take a prayer stance with them if you don't want to but being loud and obnoxious during it is cultural intolerance. But they will be a stick in the mud and try to find ways to fire you or get you to leave. Do be careful if you choose to stay. It can get "holier than thou" toxic fairly easily.
Ooh lawd, you dodged a huge bullet there
Utah law mimics federal law on this issue https://laborcommission.utah.gov/divisions/utah-antidiscrimination-and-labor-uald/employment-discrimination/#:~:text=The%20Utah%20Antidiscrimination%20Act%20prohibits,childbirth%20or%20pregnancy%2Drelated%20conditions.
Run away! Fast! Are you SERIOUSLY considering subjecting yourself to that? Next would come a description of an Op Ed piece I was planning on sending the news outlets about the lack of separation of church and state at this place of employment. It's all SO gross!
Ugh
This sucks, but I see you mentioned Utah. I'm christian and not mormon so they most likely would not even like a christian person. They want a mormon and nothing else.
thats fucking bullshit. he has a bias based on his religious practices. either the fucking idiot doesn't know the law or he things that gods law overrules it
I would’ve said Fuck No I’m out.
Report him.
I worked for a company in Northern Utah where the CEO offered mormon prayers prior to almost every thing we did. I lasted 2 months before noping out of that environment but it was surprising to me how many secular employees just went along with it to keep their jobs knowing damn well it wasn't right 🤷🏻♀️
Just came here to say “holy crap!”
My Mom told me she had a similar question in an interview for an elementary school position. She just said, "yes" with a smile, even though she's been inactive for decades.
I would've on reflex busted out laughing.
Sue them not appropriate question or conduct.
Wow, how long ago was this? East Coast here , 15 years or more ago. I was so excited to had gotten an interview with the top law firm in our little county. Walked in so excited and the lady who let me in says, “oh here you are, ms. “Smith” well you are a good little Mormon girl, aren’t you?”
It went downhill from there 😂😂😂😂
When that same thing sort of happened to me I almost wondered if it was a “test” being that it was a law firm or something, but it was a menial secretarial position so nope they were just being nosy and rude
If this happened in Utah, Idahooooo, wyoooooming or Arizona it’s not illegal because there is no separation between church and state government .