I used to believe that people at church had good motives, but now I know that any position of leadership in the church is about control. Almost every calling has an underlying thread of control running through it, and I’m not talking about being organized.
This bishop is trying to control your family first through your husband now your kids. Someone needs to put a stop to it and very clearly. In his mind the bishop is just doing his job, but send him to work on some other project. Your family is not subject to his control period.
I think that a lot of ppl, like me, join for altruistic reasons and to genuinely want to help others ( I’m speaking of the mission field and converts, I can’t relate to that unique mindset in the west). But built into their leadership callings is that push to always control others, and very few can resist it. Sometimes I would remind myself that I live in a free country and can do as I please, thank you.
Honestly, his actions seem pretty textbook. My husband, as head of the family, must speak for me. When he does not reign his wife in, then go to the next available priesthood holder. I assume he'll finally talk to me after he's consulted all my other family members, ministering leaders, the neighbors, and a plate of cookies at my doorstep.
I'm a fan of beating bishop to the punch with an assertive phone call.
"Hello Bishop. From your conversations with my husband and my son, you seem to think I am a project. I am not. Here is how you will be interacting with my family: my children will not be baptized until they are 18, and they will not be pressured or shamed for this. I am a full human being. If you want to talk to me, you talk TO ME, and you will not ask my priesthood master to reign me in, or rope my children into manipulating me. Finally, I am--at best!--a semi-active, non-believing Mormon, and you will not attempt to 'reactivate' me or else me and my children will simply stop attending altogether. Is this clear?"
This is where I have landed too. So much of what they do is about controlling others by any manipulative means necessary.
When I was a member, I remember doing it too. Convincing myself that these strangers were God's wayward children and he loves them, so therefor, I believe that I should love them. And Jesus said, if ye love me, keep my commandments. Therefore, God talks to prophets and they say I need to reactivate these people because they must not really be happy unless they do what the prophet says because he says I can't be happy outside the church. So, I convince myself I love them, then try to love bomb them back into doing what I think they should be doing. And once they start doing it, my job is done. I believe I still love them, I just don't need to talk to them again because I need to go find the next heathen.
Blaaaah! I'm sorry for the things I did as a mormon.
Same here - it's especially poignant this year! I recently moved to a much smaller community than the large metroplex area I'd lived in for many decades and I watched a local parade on TV today. It was so sweet and such a reminder of Small Town America. The "floats" were mostly cars, trucks, and maybe buses festooned with patriotic bunting and flags and signs naming the school or business they represented (some were even handmade). The town is small enough that the entire parade (it went on for quite a while) was televised live with a reporter announcing each "float" going by. The streets were not too wide & were lined with people on lawn chairs.
I love my new little town; this is the America we need to preserve and cherish.
❤️❤️❤️
People in the church aren't generally equipped to socialize with anyone "outside the church" about the church. Even my active Mormon wife and I can't talk about the church much beyond basic mechanics. Even the most mild criticisms of the church - even if it's the SAME complaints THEY have about the church - sends them nuclear.
Tribalism is one hell of a drug.
That’s just so insane he would talk about you with your underage child. Just goes to show that making your neighborhood accountant an ecclesiastical leader with zero training is ridiculous
This guy hasn't really had a great track record about how he treats women. When my parents came to town a while ago, he asked if they were visiting from Utah. When they said they lived on the east coast, he asked why. Well, that's because they have 8 grand kids out there. He then looked me in the eyes and asked when I was going to have my next kid so I could start getting caught up. My kids are all teens. I'm done. Turns out he's been asking a few ladies at church when they are going to have more kids, ladies who already have a lot of kids and are very openly done having kids.
I hate a lot about Mormonism but number one is how people feel entitled to ask you about marriage and having kids. Sounds like you got the shit end of bishop roulette
Wow this is soooo out of line. Does he believe women should pump them out until they physically can’t????
Otherwise they are lazy and non valiant??
Wow.
I’m guessing the Stake Prez might need to talk to him and get him back in line.
As a gay guy I *hate* when they describe me as "struggling" with same sex attraction. They try to control the narrative by making it sound like "deep down" you agree with them.
Oh dear. We all work with what little we have been given. Honestly, no one *really* believes that anyone in the church is called by inspiration do they? People are given callings because of *desperation*. This poor bishop doesn’t seem to know his hand from his foot and is about as graceful as an elephant tiptoeing through a crystal factory. I foresee his release from the bishop’s office in around 18 months, unless someone wises him up to how the world really operates. I am embarrassed for him.
>this new bishopric has been stepping on a lot of toes and really bringing out the old patriarchal and misogynistic church I remember.
https://youtu.be/Yd4tkiW94fk?si=cQZEfSAWllr0dQIP
>the bishop asked each youth in class if they wanted to serve a mission. One of my kids said yes to avoid any awkward confrontation and keep flying under the radar, while my other kid said maybe which caused the bishop's brain to have to reboot. This wavering caused the bishop to look further into our family's situation.
Teach your kids honesty. At least one is lying to cult leaders to make them happy, which is a bad reason to lie.
Staying under the radar until you age out of church so you can avoid confrontation seems pretty low stakes, especially when you consider the fact that the bishop used a cult tactic of asking each of the youth individually and publicly and under the "discerning eye."
Your kiddo has had lots of good support to be able to speak to the bishop like that. Good job!
Thanks! He tends to say whatever comes to his mind. It has mixed results, but almost always entertaining.
At his age that is a really good quality. He can work out how to moderate that in his 20s, no need to worry about it much now.
Both kiddos, as the first answering "yes" to deflect any criticism is also a valid approach.
I agree!
I used to believe that people at church had good motives, but now I know that any position of leadership in the church is about control. Almost every calling has an underlying thread of control running through it, and I’m not talking about being organized. This bishop is trying to control your family first through your husband now your kids. Someone needs to put a stop to it and very clearly. In his mind the bishop is just doing his job, but send him to work on some other project. Your family is not subject to his control period.
I call it "scheming for the lord" thats what 80% of ward council is about in my experience.
I think that a lot of ppl, like me, join for altruistic reasons and to genuinely want to help others ( I’m speaking of the mission field and converts, I can’t relate to that unique mindset in the west). But built into their leadership callings is that push to always control others, and very few can resist it. Sometimes I would remind myself that I live in a free country and can do as I please, thank you.
Honestly, his actions seem pretty textbook. My husband, as head of the family, must speak for me. When he does not reign his wife in, then go to the next available priesthood holder. I assume he'll finally talk to me after he's consulted all my other family members, ministering leaders, the neighbors, and a plate of cookies at my doorstep.
I'm a fan of beating bishop to the punch with an assertive phone call. "Hello Bishop. From your conversations with my husband and my son, you seem to think I am a project. I am not. Here is how you will be interacting with my family: my children will not be baptized until they are 18, and they will not be pressured or shamed for this. I am a full human being. If you want to talk to me, you talk TO ME, and you will not ask my priesthood master to reign me in, or rope my children into manipulating me. Finally, I am--at best!--a semi-active, non-believing Mormon, and you will not attempt to 'reactivate' me or else me and my children will simply stop attending altogether. Is this clear?"
“Hello Bishop. I hear the church is struggling with my decision to leave…” Turn it back on them
This is where I have landed too. So much of what they do is about controlling others by any manipulative means necessary. When I was a member, I remember doing it too. Convincing myself that these strangers were God's wayward children and he loves them, so therefor, I believe that I should love them. And Jesus said, if ye love me, keep my commandments. Therefore, God talks to prophets and they say I need to reactivate these people because they must not really be happy unless they do what the prophet says because he says I can't be happy outside the church. So, I convince myself I love them, then try to love bomb them back into doing what I think they should be doing. And once they start doing it, my job is done. I believe I still love them, I just don't need to talk to them again because I need to go find the next heathen. Blaaaah! I'm sorry for the things I did as a mormon.
Did someone just say, "Show up at his work?" I'd like to be a fly on that wall.
>The bishop also said he knew his mom(me) was struggling with the church. "Oh I'm not struggling at all, I *know* it's a farce" Right?
Exactly. 😆
Ooooh love that
It's like when Wile E. Coyote starts opening up Acme boxes. You just laugh, because he's so earnest, and has no idea.
Happy Independence Day to you! Great story, and I totally admire your spunk. Hugs from a certified Boomer Bitch!
I love Independence day!
Same here - it's especially poignant this year! I recently moved to a much smaller community than the large metroplex area I'd lived in for many decades and I watched a local parade on TV today. It was so sweet and such a reminder of Small Town America. The "floats" were mostly cars, trucks, and maybe buses festooned with patriotic bunting and flags and signs naming the school or business they represented (some were even handmade). The town is small enough that the entire parade (it went on for quite a while) was televised live with a reporter announcing each "float" going by. The streets were not too wide & were lined with people on lawn chairs. I love my new little town; this is the America we need to preserve and cherish. ❤️❤️❤️
"I wouldn't say I've been struggling, Bob."
But he still hasn't asked me to meet with him! He's just talking about me to my husband and kid.
People in the church aren't generally equipped to socialize with anyone "outside the church" about the church. Even my active Mormon wife and I can't talk about the church much beyond basic mechanics. Even the most mild criticisms of the church - even if it's the SAME complaints THEY have about the church - sends them nuclear. Tribalism is one hell of a drug.
Literally just posted a question that addresses a “will my kids get cornered if the ward knows I’m leaving” type of situation.
Depends on the leadership, but they are more likely to target kids than adults. Having children put me in the cross hairs.
Yes. These are trained liars, manipulators and bullies. They target the women and children.
I'm actually *not* struggling since leaving. Finally.
Ten years out and they think mom is still struggling 😂 I’m pretty sure mom won already
That’s just so insane he would talk about you with your underage child. Just goes to show that making your neighborhood accountant an ecclesiastical leader with zero training is ridiculous
This guy hasn't really had a great track record about how he treats women. When my parents came to town a while ago, he asked if they were visiting from Utah. When they said they lived on the east coast, he asked why. Well, that's because they have 8 grand kids out there. He then looked me in the eyes and asked when I was going to have my next kid so I could start getting caught up. My kids are all teens. I'm done. Turns out he's been asking a few ladies at church when they are going to have more kids, ladies who already have a lot of kids and are very openly done having kids.
I hate a lot about Mormonism but number one is how people feel entitled to ask you about marriage and having kids. Sounds like you got the shit end of bishop roulette
Now, this is just plain creepy. What’s next? Asking how often you and your husband have sex?
Wow this is soooo out of line. Does he believe women should pump them out until they physically can’t???? Otherwise they are lazy and non valiant?? Wow. I’m guessing the Stake Prez might need to talk to him and get him back in line.
I have zero confidence in the current stake president. https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/80xelJJFXc
Jesus, that woman who complained about your kids is a bitch. That’s how you keep people in the church 🙄
I just threw up in my mouth.
Wow wow wow this is actually so disgusting. F this cult!! It's so awful
As a gay guy I *hate* when they describe me as "struggling" with same sex attraction. They try to control the narrative by making it sound like "deep down" you agree with them.
Oh dear. We all work with what little we have been given. Honestly, no one *really* believes that anyone in the church is called by inspiration do they? People are given callings because of *desperation*. This poor bishop doesn’t seem to know his hand from his foot and is about as graceful as an elephant tiptoeing through a crystal factory. I foresee his release from the bishop’s office in around 18 months, unless someone wises him up to how the world really operates. I am embarrassed for him.
>this new bishopric has been stepping on a lot of toes and really bringing out the old patriarchal and misogynistic church I remember. https://youtu.be/Yd4tkiW94fk?si=cQZEfSAWllr0dQIP
The old patriarchy guard is long dead. So glad your kid said two adults present in the room
>the bishop asked each youth in class if they wanted to serve a mission. One of my kids said yes to avoid any awkward confrontation and keep flying under the radar, while my other kid said maybe which caused the bishop's brain to have to reboot. This wavering caused the bishop to look further into our family's situation. Teach your kids honesty. At least one is lying to cult leaders to make them happy, which is a bad reason to lie.
Staying under the radar until you age out of church so you can avoid confrontation seems pretty low stakes, especially when you consider the fact that the bishop used a cult tactic of asking each of the youth individually and publicly and under the "discerning eye."
lol not my crazy mom she all up in the momo
that bishop is EDP336