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I swear fundamentalists are shitheads, regardless of the faith. Not a few Israelis have inadvertendly crossed the Haradim just trying to live their lives.
Fundamentalism and people who mix nationalism with it are the worst kinds of humans. They are all, without exception, shit heads. That's saying something because I usually avoid painting with a broad brush or lumping all people together.
But these variations of religiosity all have a pretty clear defining line: they're the point at which the faith and the dogma stop only being a guideline for how to live their own life, they also become a guideline and a requirement for how they think that society and the law should define how everyone else lives their life as well.
That's invariably where it becomes oppressive, dangerous, and heavily prone to hypocrisy.
I was just thinking this. Whilst my religious education did focus on being a good person to others and similar "good Christian valiues", I really think the world would be a better place without it. I'm sure we'll find other reasons to kill each other in astronomical numbers but at least it won't be due to an imaginary sky fairy that watches you play with your pee pee.
People replace their Christian god with one of Trump. If god isn’t imaginary than he is a king or president
The excuse may change , but war never changes
Wars are rarely fought about religion though. They’re mostly about ethnicity, land ownership, or strategic resource control. The religion aspect comes into play pretty often, but it’s hardly ever the driving factor, just one more thing to add to the list of grievances.
It’s actually a bad view that wars are fought over religion. As you said, that’s pretty rare.
But religion is almost always used to justify wars and to motivate a populace
Less religion won’t solve wars. But in a lot of cases people would have a hard time starting wars without religion to mislead people
It's not rare at all, approximately 70% of recorder wars were fought about the other side believing in the wrong god, or worshipping the right god in the wrong way, and this unsubstantiated claim that: "It's not really about religion" lets religion and religious organisations off the hook too easily, and that happens way too much already.
Whether its the Lord's resistance army massacring in East Africa, or the salvation army trying to eradicate the lgbt+ community through lobbying and funding hate groups, religion has, throughout history and in modern times quite often been a force of evil, and very rarely made a situation better.
Religious organisations however, spend most of their time and resources gaslighting their flock.
Exactly. Europe got wrecked for 100s of years fighting wars specifically about religion. Christian v Christian. Muslim v Christian. Christians vs "heretics"... You name it..
They are all the same. It would be funny if it wasn’t so stupid. Ultra Orthodox Jews are exactly the same as fundamentalist Muslims, or Christians, or Hindus, or Mormons, or whatever flavor of religion you want. They are all the same, only the window dressing changes.
I can see why believing that you're absolutely right about every single thing and that you have an invisible sky daddy backing you up would make you a real piece of shit.
Always weird to me how people look at a set of values that are supposed to make you a better person and when a person doesn’t adhere to them then the values are shit and the world would be better off without them
I didn't say anybody's values were shit, I said that they believe sky daddy has thier back, regardless of what thier actual belief system says is good and bad. People like this use religion as an excuse to do awful things.
People who wish to live their own lives in accordance with fundamentalist beliefs I can handle. People who insist others must conform to their beliefs need to be told to pull their heads in.
You've never had proper sex until you do a lady in the back of the knee. Of course, through a hole in the clothing. I'm not some sex crazed heathen you know
This should be higher up. At a guess the driver may have to work Saturdays or holidays. Any time a group of Ultra Orthodox Jews gets on a busy bus they probably have to work out how to ensure men and women are separate, slowing the bus even more. Then they berate the driver for the other passengers' clothes. The driver probably had spare loose clothing for this purpose.
If girls in skimpy clothing are seen from outside the bus that may encourage stone throwing at the windows.
Yeah, they could have chosen to not allow them on the bus but instead they had a solution at the ready. Despite appearances the bus driver's a good person.
There are zero, they are privately owned buses filling their role as a public transit company, and precisely zero of those buses are allowed to discriminate like this. The company who owns this bus already apologized and said it was against their policy.
They actually vote and pay attention. Meanwhile I can’t convince my 18 > family to vote.
“We are all doomed anyway”.
I tried to reason and let them know the laws voted in now will affect them the rest of their lives. The “I don’t care” attitude is strong.
Can’t say why in other places but in the US it’s because they’re dying out. They’re trying to enshrine their stuff in law now because more and more of the population is becoming non-religious and they’re losing power that way.
Nah. They will lose the fight against information being readily available. There are a couple of things happening simultaneously that are warping perception. These are the last ditch efforts of these powerful religious entities to hold on to power. They are losing. In America, churches are closing in droves nationwide as the country trends away from religion. Beyond that, you're now seeing 'Jesus' ads all over the place, including the Super Bowl. They are THAT desperate.
At the same time, every bad thing that happens in the world can be read about on a daily basis, so we perceive the world as being more chaotic, when in reality it continues to get less chaotic. (except the climate, that is going to be bad)
The religious extremists are the ones that are still breeding machines. Orthodox jews are still a minority in Israel but at the rate they are procreating that will change in the not so distant future.
eeeyup. but then people go and whine "but its just a tradition!! it's always been like this!!!"
just because it is a tradition or whatever the fuck it is doesn't mean it's not harmful. there are lots of harmful traditions that have existed for a very very long time. just because they've existed for a long time doesn't mean they're good.
The ultra orthodox have been known to throw rocks at women walking through the wrong neighborhood in shorts. In Brooklyn they fought a bike lane because scantily clad women might ride bikes on it. Fundamentalist Jews are no different from fundamentalist Muslims and Christians. It's like the Christians who are afraid of Sharia law despite supporting basically the same thing only with their own brand of oppression.
I wish. But we're the ones suffering the consequences of their breakdown. My country just passed a law that penalizes a rape victim that aborts more than the sentence of a rapist.
Fundamentalists are living their dream lately.
How does a religion that teaches you to love everyone somehow hate everyone instead? Seems like people aren't really following the religion and are just using it as an excuse to hate people they don't like.
Because no one reads the Bible.
For centuries the church prevented people from learning to read the Bible because it put the control into the hands of the clergy. Then the printing press comes along and everyone has access.
No one bothers. No one reads the word of Christ. They listen to preachers lie to them and read out of the old testament.
Religion is a very personal thing. It's about self control and introspection. These people are all cultists. They never take any time to look inward unless it's to do an inventory on whether they're sufficiently hating queer people and minorities.
Very little of what American Christians believe comes from Christ. They worship power and money and reject Christ while insisting that your kids pray to him at football games.
Actually I think they do read the bible but the problem is that they take and twist the pieces that they want which leads to the fuckery that we are witnessing around the world!!
No religion only teaches you to love everyone. It's like a murderer also being nice and helpful to his neighbours and to his mother. He will still be a murderer.
In the holy books there are countless passages that tell their followers everyone else needs to die/be killed next to contradicting passages that tell their followers to be good people and love everyone.
If you want to know if a religion is a good one look up their worst teachings and go from there. There are things that make you a bad person, no matter if you also do good things.
The abrahamic religions are just that. Don't be fooled by all the smoke around their evil teachings.
That religion has a lot of contradictions in it. It doesn't matter how often their holy book tells their followers to be good when they also tell their followers to kill and stone people. So yes, they are pretending on order to reach everybody.
Good people tend to only focus on the "good teachings" while others read all of it and follow all of it or even only the worst part of it. And that's why you have people fighting what their religion actually teaches and everyone telling the other they are doing it wrong.
[Teen girls told to sit in back of bus, cover up because of Haredi passengers](https://www.timesofisrael.com/teen-girls-told-to-sit-in-back-of-bus-cover-up-because-of-haredi-passengers/)
There's a difference between assholes....
And assholes that tell women to cover themselves because of religious beliefs that aren't even the beliefs of the women being told to cover themselves.
As a Jewish person. This isn’t what the religion stands for at all. Using your faith to cover up your blatant bigotry and sexism is beyond fucked up. It’s an insult to these women and all the people that don’t use their faith as an excuse for this kind of pathetic bullshit. “You’re in a Jewish state” kindly fuck off. This makes my blood boil. It’s beyond me that someone of such a historically prejudiced against community can turn around and be just as bigoted as the people who’ve persecuted us throughout history. It’s disgusting. Fuck this guy and anyone who thinks like him.
I take exception to the idea that these sorts of negative things aren't part of Judaism (or Christianity, or Islam, or any other religion) because no one subset can unilaterally decide what a given religion stands for. A big-tent religion, like the three Abrahamic religions, are each composed of many, many different systems of morality and ethics. They don't stand for any one thing, they are composed of many different, even mutually incompatible things.
Ultimately, I think we have to acknowledge that there are good people and not-so-good people, and those categories intersect with nearly every other category of people that exists. The religion isn't a statement of the goodness of a person, the person is a statement of the goodness of a person.
I remember being referred to a couples therapist once, and the referrer said the therapist was a "good Christian". That made my skin crawl a little, as I don't care how good a Christian a person is, I care how good a person a person is. There are so many flavors of Christian that that statement tells me very little. It's very possible to be a good Christian, yet a bad person.
Yeah I’m under no delusion that any religion is perfect much less my own. I’m far more of an ethnic Jew than one of faith. There’s bad subsets of every religion. That being said I still stand by what I said that it’s disgusting to use faith to impede on the rights of others or to excuse bigotry.
Like I have no real problem with religion as a concept. It can bring together communities and such. But its twisted misuse as a culture weapon is atrocious and unforgivable.
That was Jesus who said that. I don't think Orthodox Jews are particularly concerned about him to begin with.
Not that fundamentalist Christians actually pay attention to it either...
When did I mention anything about it being all busses? When did I mention busses at all? I was literally just saying using faith as an excuse for bigotry is bad. I never made or stated any assumptions that it extended beyond this individual. I disagree with what this individual did and that’s all. I don’t know why you’re extrapolating that into framing me as someone assuming there’s any sort of large group that shares his belief. I’m actually glad to hear that the vast majority of busses do not operate like this and to be frank I never assumed otherwise. Why would I read this and assume it’s more than just this individuals prerogative. Don’t frame me as making generalizations or assumptions about a large group just because I said it was immoral to use faith as an excuse for bigotry and hatred. Nowhere in my comment did I make it out to be anything further than this individuals actions.
It literally says in the post that the bus company didn’t want this to happen again. I really don’t know why you took my statement as an assumption of the actions of anyone beyond this individual bus driver who imo was grossly out of line.
It's concerning how many people disregard such facts or just don't care enough to get a better grasp of the situation. If those girls actually boarded one of the few busses that do intend to support the interests of the ultra religious people, then it's not to much to ask for them to cover themselves. They might not have known about what kind of bus they were boarding, but nevertheless it's not some form of harassment on those girls specifically.
(Different story, if it was a regular bus, which is kinda unlikely)
There are plenty of places (mostly religious) that have restrictions on who can visit, or what to wear.
I don't agree with any form of religious doctrine to control the lives of people, but when I visit a foreign place I will inform myself on things like this.
It's not too hard to make sure not to offend religious groups when coming to their home turf. Going from the premise, that it was one of the busses for the religious folks, either those girls just weren't informed, which is in fact their problem, or they knew better and wanted some tension for some klicks online. From what is written, all that happened to them was being told "don't be dicks and behave accordingly" and they could have gotten in way more trouble without any "instructions" by the driver, when ultra religious people would be the ones encountering them "disrespecting" their culture.
In the end nothing bad happened, so there shouldn't be a reason to make a fuss.
This folks, is why we need to keep EVERY religion the absolute fuck away from our government. No one should ever be able to say this is a state and ask you to abide by their rules. Fuck that.
The problem is that you can't realistically do that without getting rid of religion in total. How are you going to ensure that a religious person isn't basing their governance on that religion? They say so?
Religion should be a starting point to question the metaphysical and our consciousness after death; it shouldn’t be a cudgel to beat people with when you don’t get your way.
so when the company says it wont happen again do they mean no girls wearing tanks with exposed skin will be allowed on the bus or the driver wont be a fucking fundamentalist dip shit? its kinda open-ended
Alright thanks. Don’t really know it.
Still, I think it is kinda funny people complaining about Ultrazionists and fundamentalists but not the Muslim Fundamentalists.
Reddit is so selective with its outrage :)
This isn't even related to Zionism Kibbutzim were famously immodest and they were Zionist
This is more so about Judaism but this is a literal non-issue driver was fired because he was dumb and all is well
They are from my town and yeah, we were also very mad.
Like the article said they wore jeans and tanktops but in no way were those clothes that count as inappropriate for a bus ride. When we heard about this we had people from my town like parents and I think the girls too go on the news because of this.
So yeah. We were mad.
I hope all of you people heal from your religious trauma. All of this talk of hoping all religions disappear so we can finally be "free" is exactly the same kind of tribalism you complain about. I bet you wouldn't look me in the eye and say these things.
Of course fundamentalists are assholes - they are people who choose to embrace extreme beliefs and inconvenient/restrictive practices purely to set themselves aside as superior to literally everyone else without actually having to be superior at anything.
As a religious jew myself, I understand the driver's intentions, but the way he did it is definitely wrong. You should pretty much never force your views on someone else if he doesn't believe in them (and even if he does)
The guy was a subcontractor the bus company. He was fired, his wife tried to make a stink about modesty and so her Facebook bikini photos were spammed all over.
They were both hypocrites.
Do y'all also react this way when your female friend is being told to cover up in a Islamic country or is this just because we're supposed to hate Israel now?
It really depends on where youre going in israel. Its 100% true this could happen but its on the same weight as needing to dress properly in the vatican. The thing is that bugs me is that these kind of places in israel arent for tourists, usually just for the people who live in very religious parts of the country. Still fucked up tho.
American conservatives rarely understand nuance. So to them, if you defend individual people in a Muslim country, clearly you are okay with everything all Muslims do. Or if you criticize an action taken by the Israeli government, you're anti-semitic. Or if you express concern about right wing/fundamentalist Christianity trying to restrict freedom in the US, you must clearly be anti-Christian.
Everything is black and white to them. There's no shades of grey.
There are sects of orthodox Judaism in the west that are essentially the cult end of Judaism similar to how Jehovah’s Witness or Mormonism is to Christianity. I watched a documentary called One of Us about how a culture was perpetuated where dudes there didn’t treat women much different than those in Islamic states.
I'm glad this is being exposed, but I wish every instance of it would be shamed instead of only when it's Israel. Women's rights should extend to the Arab world too
“Women in Middle East told to follow middle eastern customs.”
Look im not saying it’s a good thing but it’s like if I went to Japan and complained that places were being mean to me because I’m covered in tattoos.
Being expected to respect local customs is just part of traveling, it can really suck sometimes but it’s not fair to hold everyone to the standards of your country.
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I swear fundamentalists are shitheads, regardless of the faith. Not a few Israelis have inadvertendly crossed the Haradim just trying to live their lives.
Fundamentalism and people who mix nationalism with it are the worst kinds of humans. They are all, without exception, shit heads. That's saying something because I usually avoid painting with a broad brush or lumping all people together. But these variations of religiosity all have a pretty clear defining line: they're the point at which the faith and the dogma stop only being a guideline for how to live their own life, they also become a guideline and a requirement for how they think that society and the law should define how everyone else lives their life as well. That's invariably where it becomes oppressive, dangerous, and heavily prone to hypocrisy.
100% this. The flavor of the religious kool-aid is inconsequential, fundy nationalism is a total blight to any country that has it.
This opening sentence.
I was just thinking this. Whilst my religious education did focus on being a good person to others and similar "good Christian valiues", I really think the world would be a better place without it. I'm sure we'll find other reasons to kill each other in astronomical numbers but at least it won't be due to an imaginary sky fairy that watches you play with your pee pee.
Craig Ferguson once called it, "angry Santa in a cloud,"and I try to remember to call God that since then.
Magical imaginary friend for me (but also vengeful)
We take away religion and we’ll still be fighting over imaginary borders and the colour of our skin
But at least you could argue on merits instead of trying to dissuade someone from "my God said so".
People replace their Christian god with one of Trump. If god isn’t imaginary than he is a king or president The excuse may change , but war never changes
Because the other side would totally listen.
Who gets to decide what’s meritorious?
The one with the bigger guns
Bingo
People? Just like they do with religion? Only difference is, without religious arguments, they have no choice but to come up with something better.
Who’s They?
The people who hide behind empty platitudes like “divinely inspired word of God”.
Okay
Is fighting wars over "merit" better than ones over religion?
I don’t know about that, but fighting over an imaginary sky daddy is fucking stupid
Resources mostly I’d imagine.
So then we really don't need it anymore. People have morals and governments still have fear
Wars are rarely fought about religion though. They’re mostly about ethnicity, land ownership, or strategic resource control. The religion aspect comes into play pretty often, but it’s hardly ever the driving factor, just one more thing to add to the list of grievances.
It’s actually a bad view that wars are fought over religion. As you said, that’s pretty rare. But religion is almost always used to justify wars and to motivate a populace Less religion won’t solve wars. But in a lot of cases people would have a hard time starting wars without religion to mislead people
It's not rare at all, approximately 70% of recorder wars were fought about the other side believing in the wrong god, or worshipping the right god in the wrong way, and this unsubstantiated claim that: "It's not really about religion" lets religion and religious organisations off the hook too easily, and that happens way too much already. Whether its the Lord's resistance army massacring in East Africa, or the salvation army trying to eradicate the lgbt+ community through lobbying and funding hate groups, religion has, throughout history and in modern times quite often been a force of evil, and very rarely made a situation better. Religious organisations however, spend most of their time and resources gaslighting their flock.
Exactly. Europe got wrecked for 100s of years fighting wars specifically about religion. Christian v Christian. Muslim v Christian. Christians vs "heretics"... You name it..
Violence aside, religion also gets people killed by getting in the way of embryonic stem cell research.
They are all the same. It would be funny if it wasn’t so stupid. Ultra Orthodox Jews are exactly the same as fundamentalist Muslims, or Christians, or Hindus, or Mormons, or whatever flavor of religion you want. They are all the same, only the window dressing changes.
All religions have extremists. Therefore all religion leads to evil.
I can see why believing that you're absolutely right about every single thing and that you have an invisible sky daddy backing you up would make you a real piece of shit.
Even the sky daddy tells them to be kind. An asshole is an asshole.
Always weird to me how people look at a set of values that are supposed to make you a better person and when a person doesn’t adhere to them then the values are shit and the world would be better off without them
I didn't say anybody's values were shit, I said that they believe sky daddy has thier back, regardless of what thier actual belief system says is good and bad. People like this use religion as an excuse to do awful things.
People who wish to live their own lives in accordance with fundamentalist beliefs I can handle. People who insist others must conform to their beliefs need to be told to pull their heads in.
I've seen Jewish fundamentalist in Israel claim the Torah gives them a right to kill non-Jews. So yeah they're all the same.
Can't have their knees or shoulders distracting him. Poor guy.
you want the bus to get into accident?? the knee is the most sensual part of a woman for sure after all
Knee boners man, they kill more men than Ankles
I once saw a thigh and died, I'm dead now, my penis exploded from seeing it
You've never had proper sex until you do a lady in the back of the knee. Of course, through a hole in the clothing. I'm not some sex crazed heathen you know
Obviously none of you have seen my left middle toe.
I find the most erotic part of a woman is the boobies.
I was going to post this and then thought I should check to see if it was already here first.
Weird fetish man. /s
Bold statement.
Lt. Kroker!
Yeah. This is a reasonable request. He even gave them blankets to keep themselves warm.
Probably super clean, and smells fresh Edit: talking about the public transport blankets, not the human beings also should’ve added a /s
I’m sure they do, but most women are good at hygiene.
It’s actually the ankles
Chances are good that he told them to cover up, to protect them from the Ultra-Orthodox passengers.
This should be higher up. At a guess the driver may have to work Saturdays or holidays. Any time a group of Ultra Orthodox Jews gets on a busy bus they probably have to work out how to ensure men and women are separate, slowing the bus even more. Then they berate the driver for the other passengers' clothes. The driver probably had spare loose clothing for this purpose. If girls in skimpy clothing are seen from outside the bus that may encourage stone throwing at the windows.
Yeah, they could have chosen to not allow them on the bus but instead they had a solution at the ready. Despite appearances the bus driver's a good person.
Even I’m not this horny lol.
World's Most Moral Bus Line
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There are zero, they are privately owned buses filling their role as a public transit company, and precisely zero of those buses are allowed to discriminate like this. The company who owns this bus already apologized and said it was against their policy.
And there was a big uproar about the discrimination. I think he was fired.
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It seems like we're heading in the opposite direction, with religious extremism gaining power across the globe.
They actually vote and pay attention. Meanwhile I can’t convince my 18 > family to vote. “We are all doomed anyway”. I tried to reason and let them know the laws voted in now will affect them the rest of their lives. The “I don’t care” attitude is strong.
as baldwin put it: cynicism is a form of obedience.
Can’t say why in other places but in the US it’s because they’re dying out. They’re trying to enshrine their stuff in law now because more and more of the population is becoming non-religious and they’re losing power that way.
Nah. They will lose the fight against information being readily available. There are a couple of things happening simultaneously that are warping perception. These are the last ditch efforts of these powerful religious entities to hold on to power. They are losing. In America, churches are closing in droves nationwide as the country trends away from religion. Beyond that, you're now seeing 'Jesus' ads all over the place, including the Super Bowl. They are THAT desperate. At the same time, every bad thing that happens in the world can be read about on a daily basis, so we perceive the world as being more chaotic, when in reality it continues to get less chaotic. (except the climate, that is going to be bad)
The religious extremists are the ones that are still breeding machines. Orthodox jews are still a minority in Israel but at the rate they are procreating that will change in the not so distant future.
Stopped? How about eradicated
Guys guys! I have this new idea nobody's ever tried before! What if we just kill all of them? Surely that will make everything better.
 No humans = No conflict
"be the change you want to see"?
Easy enough, just start taxing all of them.
eeeyup. but then people go and whine "but its just a tradition!! it's always been like this!!!" just because it is a tradition or whatever the fuck it is doesn't mean it's not harmful. there are lots of harmful traditions that have existed for a very very long time. just because they've existed for a long time doesn't mean they're good.
The ultra orthodox have been known to throw rocks at women walking through the wrong neighborhood in shorts. In Brooklyn they fought a bike lane because scantily clad women might ride bikes on it. Fundamentalist Jews are no different from fundamentalist Muslims and Christians. It's like the Christians who are afraid of Sharia law despite supporting basically the same thing only with their own brand of oppression.
if this behavior by these people is know, was the driver just trying to protect them girls, trying to make sure they werent harrassed?
The 3 Abrahamic religions are having a collective nervous breakdown lately.
Good. Let them all disappear
I wish. But we're the ones suffering the consequences of their breakdown. My country just passed a law that penalizes a rape victim that aborts more than the sentence of a rapist. Fundamentalists are living their dream lately.
If you mean the Brazilian law, it wasn’t passed yet, they just voted to allow it to be voted with urgency, that is, in a faster process
For real. Hopefully all religions/cults will disappear at some point in my lifetime but it’s not looking good
They would be replaced with some other form of stupidity
If it isnt Christianity or Islam then it's Scientology, Trumpism, Musk-ism, or whatever weird brand/company fanatism.
Yes. The desperate and uneducated will always look for something to tell them it's not their fault.
Invest in education then
In the US half the government is actively pushing the privatization of education.
The U.S. is captured by religious extremists that’s why.
You don't say lol
How does a religion that teaches you to love everyone somehow hate everyone instead? Seems like people aren't really following the religion and are just using it as an excuse to hate people they don't like.
Because no one reads the Bible. For centuries the church prevented people from learning to read the Bible because it put the control into the hands of the clergy. Then the printing press comes along and everyone has access. No one bothers. No one reads the word of Christ. They listen to preachers lie to them and read out of the old testament. Religion is a very personal thing. It's about self control and introspection. These people are all cultists. They never take any time to look inward unless it's to do an inventory on whether they're sufficiently hating queer people and minorities. Very little of what American Christians believe comes from Christ. They worship power and money and reject Christ while insisting that your kids pray to him at football games.
Actually I think they do read the bible but the problem is that they take and twist the pieces that they want which leads to the fuckery that we are witnessing around the world!!
No religion only teaches you to love everyone. It's like a murderer also being nice and helpful to his neighbours and to his mother. He will still be a murderer. In the holy books there are countless passages that tell their followers everyone else needs to die/be killed next to contradicting passages that tell their followers to be good people and love everyone. If you want to know if a religion is a good one look up their worst teachings and go from there. There are things that make you a bad person, no matter if you also do good things. The abrahamic religions are just that. Don't be fooled by all the smoke around their evil teachings.
Ty. But I don't understand what you mean with your last sentence. It's not a good religion but they are pretending to be good?
That religion has a lot of contradictions in it. It doesn't matter how often their holy book tells their followers to be good when they also tell their followers to kill and stone people. So yes, they are pretending on order to reach everybody. Good people tend to only focus on the "good teachings" while others read all of it and follow all of it or even only the worst part of it. And that's why you have people fighting what their religion actually teaches and everyone telling the other they are doing it wrong.
Let’s hope Mormons are waiting this one out.
[Teen girls told to sit in back of bus, cover up because of Haredi passengers](https://www.timesofisrael.com/teen-girls-told-to-sit-in-back-of-bus-cover-up-because-of-haredi-passengers/)
"they respect your way of life and you should respect theirs" Now get in the back of the bus and cover yourselves up.
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Haredi pedophiles?
Conservatives, same wherever you go.
Conservatives are also very genocidal too
It's kind of their brand.
Aholes exist everywhere. The driver is an Ahole.
There's a difference between assholes.... And assholes that tell women to cover themselves because of religious beliefs that aren't even the beliefs of the women being told to cover themselves.
Yes. A religious asshole.
As a Jewish person. This isn’t what the religion stands for at all. Using your faith to cover up your blatant bigotry and sexism is beyond fucked up. It’s an insult to these women and all the people that don’t use their faith as an excuse for this kind of pathetic bullshit. “You’re in a Jewish state” kindly fuck off. This makes my blood boil. It’s beyond me that someone of such a historically prejudiced against community can turn around and be just as bigoted as the people who’ve persecuted us throughout history. It’s disgusting. Fuck this guy and anyone who thinks like him.
I take exception to the idea that these sorts of negative things aren't part of Judaism (or Christianity, or Islam, or any other religion) because no one subset can unilaterally decide what a given religion stands for. A big-tent religion, like the three Abrahamic religions, are each composed of many, many different systems of morality and ethics. They don't stand for any one thing, they are composed of many different, even mutually incompatible things. Ultimately, I think we have to acknowledge that there are good people and not-so-good people, and those categories intersect with nearly every other category of people that exists. The religion isn't a statement of the goodness of a person, the person is a statement of the goodness of a person. I remember being referred to a couples therapist once, and the referrer said the therapist was a "good Christian". That made my skin crawl a little, as I don't care how good a Christian a person is, I care how good a person a person is. There are so many flavors of Christian that that statement tells me very little. It's very possible to be a good Christian, yet a bad person.
Yeah I’m under no delusion that any religion is perfect much less my own. I’m far more of an ethnic Jew than one of faith. There’s bad subsets of every religion. That being said I still stand by what I said that it’s disgusting to use faith to impede on the rights of others or to excuse bigotry.
I agree strongly with your statement condemning faith as a justification for bigotry. It's a position you absolutely should stand by.
Like I have no real problem with religion as a concept. It can bring together communities and such. But its twisted misuse as a culture weapon is atrocious and unforgivable.
Not to mention the Bible says to rip out your eyes if you are tempted. But they "forget" about that part.
That was Jesus who said that. I don't think Orthodox Jews are particularly concerned about him to begin with. Not that fundamentalist Christians actually pay attention to it either...
The Bible also pretty clearly says thou shalt not kill but ya know.
Thou shalt not "murder," because slaughtering the Canaanites is okay
I mean everything’s okay if you just completely twist your own interpretation of a who knows how old book.
That's the new testament. I understand your point but generally Jewish religious persons don't recognize the new testaments.
That's not in the Torah, that's in the later fanfic bit
Many Muslims are talking the same way.
Turns out religion is universally oppressive.
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When did I mention anything about it being all busses? When did I mention busses at all? I was literally just saying using faith as an excuse for bigotry is bad. I never made or stated any assumptions that it extended beyond this individual. I disagree with what this individual did and that’s all. I don’t know why you’re extrapolating that into framing me as someone assuming there’s any sort of large group that shares his belief. I’m actually glad to hear that the vast majority of busses do not operate like this and to be frank I never assumed otherwise. Why would I read this and assume it’s more than just this individuals prerogative. Don’t frame me as making generalizations or assumptions about a large group just because I said it was immoral to use faith as an excuse for bigotry and hatred. Nowhere in my comment did I make it out to be anything further than this individuals actions. It literally says in the post that the bus company didn’t want this to happen again. I really don’t know why you took my statement as an assumption of the actions of anyone beyond this individual bus driver who imo was grossly out of line.
As a Muslim I agree Some people seems to not even have read their book
Those were Jewish girls btw Yeah the driver was insane but this is very old at this point not sure why it is posted right now
>not sure why it is posted right now Rage bait.
Anti israel propaganda\*
Some batshit crazy person is acting batshit crazy in a region composed of batshit crazy people? I'm shocked.
Wait, did he do it cause they entered the bus or cause he was scared of what could happen yo them ?
this was from about a year ago As far as I remember he was religious himself but not ultra-orthodox.
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It's concerning how many people disregard such facts or just don't care enough to get a better grasp of the situation. If those girls actually boarded one of the few busses that do intend to support the interests of the ultra religious people, then it's not to much to ask for them to cover themselves. They might not have known about what kind of bus they were boarding, but nevertheless it's not some form of harassment on those girls specifically. (Different story, if it was a regular bus, which is kinda unlikely) There are plenty of places (mostly religious) that have restrictions on who can visit, or what to wear. I don't agree with any form of religious doctrine to control the lives of people, but when I visit a foreign place I will inform myself on things like this. It's not too hard to make sure not to offend religious groups when coming to their home turf. Going from the premise, that it was one of the busses for the religious folks, either those girls just weren't informed, which is in fact their problem, or they knew better and wanted some tension for some klicks online. From what is written, all that happened to them was being told "don't be dicks and behave accordingly" and they could have gotten in way more trouble without any "instructions" by the driver, when ultra religious people would be the ones encountering them "disrespecting" their culture. In the end nothing bad happened, so there shouldn't be a reason to make a fuss.
This is from a few years ago (just for reference)
Religion is poison to the human mind.
This folks, is why we need to keep EVERY religion the absolute fuck away from our government. No one should ever be able to say this is a state and ask you to abide by their rules. Fuck that.
The problem is that you can't realistically do that without getting rid of religion in total. How are you going to ensure that a religious person isn't basing their governance on that religion? They say so?
... So, to confirm, this is a non-issue, right? The bus company already said they were going to prevent this from happening again, yes?
Rage bait.
This subreddit will take any excuse to hate on Jews, apparently.
Yes this occurred about a year ago and the driver was fired afaik
This isn’t news.
I love it how this sub works tirelessly to blacken out Israel.
Well, something to unite all branches of the Abrahamics.
wait till you hear about sharia
dont matter what religion. they are all the same.
All religions are a facepalm.
Religion should be a starting point to question the metaphysical and our consciousness after death; it shouldn’t be a cudgel to beat people with when you don’t get your way.
You don't need religion to question what comes after life. Religion is not a requirement for curiosity...
Horrible. It's also news from last year, which sparked mass outrage then. What caused you to post it now?
so when the company says it wont happen again do they mean no girls wearing tanks with exposed skin will be allowed on the bus or the driver wont be a fucking fundamentalist dip shit? its kinda open-ended
The driver was fired a year ago when this happened
This story is from at least ten months ago
way more from what I remember
Very possible. I just saw an article from 10 months ago about a lawsuit. I have no idea how far the actual incident goes
Ultra-orthodox isn't exactly popular in Israel. It makes up only 13% of the population. They tend to oppose a Jewish state.
What’s the publication?
Ha'Aretz
Alright thanks. Don’t really know it. Still, I think it is kinda funny people complaining about Ultrazionists and fundamentalists but not the Muslim Fundamentalists. Reddit is so selective with its outrage :)
This isn't even related to Zionism Kibbutzim were famously immodest and they were Zionist This is more so about Judaism but this is a literal non-issue driver was fired because he was dumb and all is well
The right wing idiots are on the rise everywhere it seems.
They are from my town and yeah, we were also very mad. Like the article said they wore jeans and tanktops but in no way were those clothes that count as inappropriate for a bus ride. When we heard about this we had people from my town like parents and I think the girls too go on the news because of this. So yeah. We were mad.
I hope all of you people heal from your religious trauma. All of this talk of hoping all religions disappear so we can finally be "free" is exactly the same kind of tribalism you complain about. I bet you wouldn't look me in the eye and say these things.
We need hippies back more than ever and I feel like Gen Alapha is going to be the ones to bring it back when they hit young adult age.
Who took the photo though?
No shoes, no shirt, no service. Or something like it.
Of course fundamentalists are assholes - they are people who choose to embrace extreme beliefs and inconvenient/restrictive practices purely to set themselves aside as superior to literally everyone else without actually having to be superior at anything.
article about jewish, comments about other religions... Is reddit moderated in Israel?
We really need to amend 'freedom of religion' to clarify 'unless you're being a complete prick to your fellow citizens in which case fuck you'.
Theocracy Theocracies.
As a religious jew myself, I understand the driver's intentions, but the way he did it is definitely wrong. You should pretty much never force your views on someone else if he doesn't believe in them (and even if he does)
The guy was a subcontractor the bus company. He was fired, his wife tried to make a stink about modesty and so her Facebook bikini photos were spammed all over. They were both hypocrites.
Just morally treading back to 1920s gender equality.
Do y'all also react this way when your female friend is being told to cover up in a Islamic country or is this just because we're supposed to hate Israel now?
It really depends on where youre going in israel. Its 100% true this could happen but its on the same weight as needing to dress properly in the vatican. The thing is that bugs me is that these kind of places in israel arent for tourists, usually just for the people who live in very religious parts of the country. Still fucked up tho.
This isn’t a religious building though, it’s a damn bus.
They're busses that are designated for ultra orthodox people. They only run a few times between regular busses.
this wasn't in a religious area as far as I remember
Are busses in Israel considered worshipping spaces?
No, but neither do streets in the vatican. Been there myself and i remember havibg told to not enter with shorts.
Tbh this would happen in a fundamentalist Islamic place too but Reddit wouldn’t dare post that
What are you saying? Nobody in Iran or Saudi Arabia has objected to how a young woman dresses, ever… /s
Except that "Reddit" clearly posts about it all the time...
Thnx for explaining Israel is a fundamentalist place. We already knew about SArabia.
They both are for sure
Ah, it wouldn't be a criticism of Israel without some whataboutism in the comments.
reddit definitely does not shy away from critisicing islam where did you get that from
American conservatives rarely understand nuance. So to them, if you defend individual people in a Muslim country, clearly you are okay with everything all Muslims do. Or if you criticize an action taken by the Israeli government, you're anti-semitic. Or if you express concern about right wing/fundamentalist Christianity trying to restrict freedom in the US, you must clearly be anti-Christian. Everything is black and white to them. There's no shades of grey.
I'm so sick and tired of religion and religious people trying to control everyone.
you'd be happy to know the driver was fired when this occurred over a year ago
This is not a facepalm. Mods do anything here anymore?
These are Haradim (basically religious extremists in Judaism), they are out of their mind and don't speak for the rest of us Jews
Meh. Go to any neighboring country and how much better would it be for them ladies?
In spite of the claim that "Israelis have Western values" they are remarkably similar their extremist neighbors.
There are sects of orthodox Judaism in the west that are essentially the cult end of Judaism similar to how Jehovah’s Witness or Mormonism is to Christianity. I watched a documentary called One of Us about how a culture was perpetuated where dudes there didn’t treat women much different than those in Islamic states.
I'm glad this is being exposed, but I wish every instance of it would be shamed instead of only when it's Israel. Women's rights should extend to the Arab world too
This was a year or so ago and the driver was fired
“Women in Middle East told to follow middle eastern customs.” Look im not saying it’s a good thing but it’s like if I went to Japan and complained that places were being mean to me because I’m covered in tattoos. Being expected to respect local customs is just part of traveling, it can really suck sometimes but it’s not fair to hold everyone to the standards of your country.
Wait'll you find out how immodest dress is punished in Muslim countries