My initial comment reads a bit more critical than I meant it to, sry bb.
The connection between "this thing is unlikely" and "this thing is impossible" is made too quickly by normies.
But "a 600 lb pull isn't even bragable" is a silly thing to say.
From time to time I have. Just because sometimes I hate people and the fact that I'm always so goddamned busy.... managing to hurt myself in fun ways also probably hasn't helped anything.
2 years is an extremely short time frame for someone in the 200lb range, I think I personally pulled 500 in about a year at 190ish and then it took me another 2 years to hit 600 at 205, there were some injuries and other bullshit mixed in there but it was still seen as fairly quick progression.
It's dummies all the way down.
For reals though, I think I'm most annoyed by the guy that thinks a 600lb DL is trivial. Especially since he doesn't pull even 5 plates himself.
I'm used to the other kind of idiot.
I dunno. On one hand, yeah. Dude with a 440 pull saying 600 is trivial is kinda silly. On the other hand, I *do* have a 600lb tug and it did take me just a hair over two years to get there and I was a complete moron about training for at least half that time so he's not totally wrong from my perspective?
I'm a temporary apostate actually. I may return to the fold after I see this Sheiko run to the end. Mag/Ort beat the shit out of me but it did put pounds on my DL.
That's some pretty sweet deadlift progress you made.
I don't think it's completely baseless to suggest that most average sized men are potentially capable of pulling 600; but, it really is a very long term goal - that would require their primary athletic focus to be purely on strength - for a lot of people.
Even if they are decently hard working and train reasonably well, 6+ plates is a really big deadlift.
I agree with and disagree with 440 pull guy saying 600 is trivial.
it really isn't that hard from my perspective. my perspective being that of a heavyweight powerlifter.
but also he said 3x bw is reachable by everyone...and fuck that noise.
I'd say a 600lb DL is in the same realm of hard as qualifying as a cat 3 cyclist.
It's not an end-goal for someone who is actually competitive (or wants to be competitive) in the sport, but it sure isn't a trivial thing for the average athlete.
A 600lb (~272.5kg) deadlift can make you pretty damn competitive if you compete at 82.5kg and of your bench and squat, one is also very strong and the other is at least fairly strong, let's say, a 650-700kg+ total. Perhaps not an end goal nor would it win you the world's top money meets nor IPF worlds (at 83kg), but it would be elite by most standards.
Now, if you're 125kg, different story, for sure.
TBH 3xBW is my 'if I hit it and lose my legs the next day I'll happily rest on that laurel' goal. Think I'll make it, it's just a long term goal, not a short term goal.
I'm a svelte 255 right now, 750 is something I think is within reach for me. I didn't realize nobody hadn't done it at 308. Figured Eric probably had, but now that I look I guess not.
>3x bw isn't that special though. Strong and definitely takes time and effort, but not special.
That's a pretty crazy standard to not consider special. 600 lb dl at 200 pounds is strong as fuck, at least to me.
Kid at my gym is essentially at 600 weighing like 185 or something and he trains like a complete and utter moron. He's never locked it out despite getting it 98% of the way there because he refuses to address his weakest points. It's not that it's not strong, just that if event this jackhammer can do it while training like complete asshole, most people with actual sensible programming and a concerted effort should be able to achieve that.
Kids can get away with abusing their bodies training like morons, to some extent, especially if they're able to achieve high CNS arousal and compensate for technical inefficiency, which can be somewhat easier if you're stupid and just yolo everything. I doubt he'd get away with it if he was 40yo.
He isn't gonna make it to 40 at this rate. Kid's on the "Every session has to be a PR of some kind/Use Nose Tork every day" train right now and he's gonna explode in a ball of ammonia and kyphosis before too long.
I train with a 20yo kid, I'm 35. He's not an idiot by any means, he follows the program and is super enthusiastic, but he recovers quick and can muscle through lifts when his technique has broken down, in a way I absolutely could not. We competed together in the same division 2 weeks ago, I pulled 230kg and finished 4th, he pulled 235kg and won (his squat and bench are much better). I was ruined for 2-3 days, he trained *the very next fucking day*, decided to try hook grip for the first time and got 240kg to his knees.
I'm 28, been maxing out lifts every day (I didn't max out for three total days in 2017) for years, no issues. I haven't "burned out my CNS" nor have I been injured ever. No aches or pains even. I continue to get bigger and stronger as well. Maybe it's not so much "ugh it only works for a while for teenagers" but rather people get lazy once they hit their mid 20s and start making excuses for themselves.
Yeah but imagine you if you just tried to PR your bench every session and didn't believe in back work and it got so comparatively weak your squat plateaued because you can't keep your body upright past a certain weight anymore.
I mean he's right, most people will fail at the gym. A person is capable of it, people aren't. Success is quite uncommon even among gym-centric communities regardless of expanding that sample size to "the population"
I don't think that means they are physically incapable of succeeding though, just that they won't make it due to other factors that aren't their actual potential.
I'd agree with you if they were talking about something easy to achieve like a 1/2/3/4 lift. But they're talking about something specifically quite impressive and also referring to a group where most would be classified as a physically underwhelming and would probably struggle or need work to deadlift 300lb let alone 2x that. You're vastly underestimating how much people suck
I might also be hanging around people that skew my perspective. I'm in a facebook group with a dude who locked out 800 (reds for some slight infraction we never got confirmation on) at my last meet. Once you see that in person it kinda fucks with your sense of what's impressive for everyone else.
Those were about my numbers too before I got patellar tendinitis and had to spend time getting jacked. Now I’m more like 5.5/4.25/6.5. Forget about getting your upper body stronger, literally have a have a chest day and a shoulders and arms day. It’s awesome. I haven’t lifted heavy for my upper body in a couple years now and I’ve added 70kg to my bench and 25kg to my overhead press.
That's basically what I've resorted to recently. Just doing more higher rep work on incline bench and flat dumbbell. I just need a bigger chest and shoulders.
I haven’t done a single flat chest movement in 2 months and probably feel stronger than ever. My upper chest has also finally filled in. My chest routine is:
* hammer strength chest press, work up to a hard set of 8
* incline barbell bench, work up to a heavy 6 (increase weight here whenever possible)
* 4 sets of 10 incline hex press,
* 4 sets of incline dumbbell press (or flyes, I rotate) to failure, with a forced stretch at the end of my last set (I get my training partner to push down on the dumbbells for 30s or so when they’re in the bottom position and get an insane stretch across my chest and shoulders)
Usually get around 16 sets total. My front delts take a hammering from this so when I’m training my shoulders I just do a few sets of a plate loaded machine press for them and I’m happy enough. I basically train according to John Meadows’ mountaindog training philosophy and it’s been lifechanging
I feel like the added chest/shoulder/triceps development from going through an incline really helps. Especially since the range of motion is huge compared to my flat bench with a decent arch.
https://i.imgur.com/GyF20HA.jpg
Now I actually look like I have pecs too which is nice
Twice a week.
My split is: chest, shoulders and arms, legs - twice a week. I do 5-10 sets of back exercises every day I’m in the gym (depending on fatigue), and I alternate heavy squats or deads on my leg day. I’ve also actually been training abs recently which is weird for me. First thing I do in the gym is 5 sets of facepulls supersetted with 5 sets of hanging leg raises. I haven’t had a shoulder or elbow or knee injury since I’ve started training like this. The way John Meadows structures his training, you do your ‘heavy’ work after you’ve already done a few sets of something to get a bit of a pump and get the right muscles firing. So you’re probably a little fatigued and lifting lighter weights. Definitely something that’s important to me as an injury prone lifter. Also it’s fun actually looking jacked and having big arms and an upper chest that pops out of my shirts.
>looking jacked and having big arms and an upper chest that pops out of my shirts
I want that.
I'm actually trying to build a home gym right now, so that I can train more. Sometimes I work like 80+ hours per week, and it gets to the point I literally just run out of time to go to the gym, if I plan on actually sleeping enough. If I could get my home gym set up, then I could just pop in for like 30 minutes/day and get quick workouts in during the busy weeks. The only problem is that I'm doing it in my storage space in the basement of my apartment building, and I'm still waiting on my landlord to give me the key to the space. I asked for it on 1/6/18, and he said he would get it to me ASAP. I've since sent him like 6 texts and called him 2-3 times (didn't answer) about it. He hasn't responded at all. I'm so ready to become home gym master race, and this cunt is holding me back. I feel like murdering him the next time I see him.
"Most people won't be able to pull 600 lb" isn't an incorrect statement.
If you don't count the ones who can't as people it becomes a lot easier.
My initial comment reads a bit more critical than I meant it to, sry bb. The connection between "this thing is unlikely" and "this thing is impossible" is made too quickly by normies. But "a 600 lb pull isn't even bragable" is a silly thing to say.
I swear to fucking Christ if we start saying a 600 pound pull isn't braggable I will off myself right now.
> when you spend too much time in FCJ "Can't pull 600lb? LOL! Have you tried trying?"
If you do can I have your MBPC Power Keg?
<3 I mean there's no reason we have to pick one side over the other. Both can be goobers.
Especially when you consider he's saying people should be able to do it in 2 years. That's impressive progress. Or maybe I just suck.
Have you tried moving far away from everyone you know and having no life other than work, training, and eating? It's basically steroids.
Sounds nice, but can I not work? Or train? And do actual steroids?
Depends, how is your youtube marketability?
From time to time I have. Just because sometimes I hate people and the fact that I'm always so goddamned busy.... managing to hurt myself in fun ways also probably hasn't helped anything.
2 years is an extremely short time frame for someone in the 200lb range, I think I personally pulled 500 in about a year at 190ish and then it took me another 2 years to hit 600 at 205, there were some injuries and other bullshit mixed in there but it was still seen as fairly quick progression.
See three years seems more reasonable to me. Assuming you’re not just dicking around in the gym.
Replace the 600 with 315 and you still wouldn't be wrong!
It's dummies all the way down. For reals though, I think I'm most annoyed by the guy that thinks a 600lb DL is trivial. Especially since he doesn't pull even 5 plates himself. I'm used to the other kind of idiot.
I dunno. On one hand, yeah. Dude with a 440 pull saying 600 is trivial is kinda silly. On the other hand, I *do* have a 600lb tug and it did take me just a hair over two years to get there and I was a complete moron about training for at least half that time so he's not totally wrong from my perspective?
A 600 lb pull is 2x bw for you tho.
frist of all how dare yo u
Don't mind me, that's just my inability to get much over 205 lashing out.
Have you tried visiting/r/gainit?
What if I told you I used to run that kingdom before I abdicated my throne to /u/Trap_City_Bitch and /u/just-another-scrub.
Yeah right, you're half the man status crow was
More like faked your death and went into hiding. Leaving two poor guys holding the bag (and the other mods). Also it’s a shitty kingdom. Want it back?
You guys should just shut it down and send everyone to /r/fitness. That is the best of both worlds. They're basically the same thing anyway.
Somehow I don’t think that would be fair to Spengler.
I have no followup to this. Other than to highlight how unimpressive my deadlift is.
HELLO, HAVE YOU HEARD THE GOOD WORD ABOUT OUR LORD AND SAVIOR BENNY? WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN A MAG/ORT SPREADSHEET TODAY?
I'm a temporary apostate actually. I may return to the fold after I see this Sheiko run to the end. Mag/Ort beat the shit out of me but it did put pounds on my DL.
> Mag/Ort beat the shit out of me but it did put pounds on my DL. same
The 85%ish deficits on the last week almost broke me. Buuuuut there's a 12 week span in between state and regionals this year. How convenient.
[удалено]
Large and in charge, baby.
Is that new PC for fat?
Would an average-sized rowboat support you without capsizing?
European or North American rowboat?
That's some pretty sweet deadlift progress you made. I don't think it's completely baseless to suggest that most average sized men are potentially capable of pulling 600; but, it really is a very long term goal - that would require their primary athletic focus to be purely on strength - for a lot of people. Even if they are decently hard working and train reasonably well, 6+ plates is a really big deadlift.
I agree with and disagree with 440 pull guy saying 600 is trivial. it really isn't that hard from my perspective. my perspective being that of a heavyweight powerlifter. but also he said 3x bw is reachable by everyone...and fuck that noise.
I'd say a 600lb DL is in the same realm of hard as qualifying as a cat 3 cyclist. It's not an end-goal for someone who is actually competitive (or wants to be competitive) in the sport, but it sure isn't a trivial thing for the average athlete.
A 600lb (~272.5kg) deadlift can make you pretty damn competitive if you compete at 82.5kg and of your bench and squat, one is also very strong and the other is at least fairly strong, let's say, a 650-700kg+ total. Perhaps not an end goal nor would it win you the world's top money meets nor IPF worlds (at 83kg), but it would be elite by most standards. Now, if you're 125kg, different story, for sure.
TBH 3xBW is my 'if I hit it and lose my legs the next day I'll happily rest on that laurel' goal. Think I'll make it, it's just a long term goal, not a short term goal.
well its a great goal, but no one over 300lbs bodyewight has ever done it iirc. (maybe shawn doyle is close? he tried 903 but at 308lbs+)
I'm a svelte 255 right now, 750 is something I think is within reach for me. I didn't realize nobody hadn't done it at 308. Figured Eric probably had, but now that I look I guess not.
exactry. I've been 275+ since 2008...825 whilst theoretically doable at one point...never got close. 755 is my best pull in training @ 315lb bwt.
>3x bw isn't that special though. Strong and definitely takes time and effort, but not special. That's a pretty crazy standard to not consider special. 600 lb dl at 200 pounds is strong as fuck, at least to me.
Kid at my gym is essentially at 600 weighing like 185 or something and he trains like a complete and utter moron. He's never locked it out despite getting it 98% of the way there because he refuses to address his weakest points. It's not that it's not strong, just that if event this jackhammer can do it while training like complete asshole, most people with actual sensible programming and a concerted effort should be able to achieve that.
Kids can get away with abusing their bodies training like morons, to some extent, especially if they're able to achieve high CNS arousal and compensate for technical inefficiency, which can be somewhat easier if you're stupid and just yolo everything. I doubt he'd get away with it if he was 40yo.
He isn't gonna make it to 40 at this rate. Kid's on the "Every session has to be a PR of some kind/Use Nose Tork every day" train right now and he's gonna explode in a ball of ammonia and kyphosis before too long.
If thats wrong I don't want to be right
Real talk how often can you use nose tork safely?
I mean as long as your nose isn't bleeding I think you're fine.
I train with a 20yo kid, I'm 35. He's not an idiot by any means, he follows the program and is super enthusiastic, but he recovers quick and can muscle through lifts when his technique has broken down, in a way I absolutely could not. We competed together in the same division 2 weeks ago, I pulled 230kg and finished 4th, he pulled 235kg and won (his squat and bench are much better). I was ruined for 2-3 days, he trained *the very next fucking day*, decided to try hook grip for the first time and got 240kg to his knees.
>Every session has to be a PR of some kind Paging /u/thatdamnedgym
I'm 28, been maxing out lifts every day (I didn't max out for three total days in 2017) for years, no issues. I haven't "burned out my CNS" nor have I been injured ever. No aches or pains even. I continue to get bigger and stronger as well. Maybe it's not so much "ugh it only works for a while for teenagers" but rather people get lazy once they hit their mid 20s and start making excuses for themselves.
Ya that's why I was paging you. You sort of disprove the "will explode in a ball of ammonia and kyphosis" thing. But then so does Mythical.
Right on. Mythical is a beast on a different level haha
Yeah but imagine you if you just tried to PR your bench every session and didn't believe in back work and it got so comparatively weak your squat plateaued because you can't keep your body upright past a certain weight anymore.
I mean he's right, most people will fail at the gym. A person is capable of it, people aren't. Success is quite uncommon even among gym-centric communities regardless of expanding that sample size to "the population"
I don't think that means they are physically incapable of succeeding though, just that they won't make it due to other factors that aren't their actual potential.
I'd agree with you if they were talking about something easy to achieve like a 1/2/3/4 lift. But they're talking about something specifically quite impressive and also referring to a group where most would be classified as a physically underwhelming and would probably struggle or need work to deadlift 300lb let alone 2x that. You're vastly underestimating how much people suck
I might also be hanging around people that skew my perspective. I'm in a facebook group with a dude who locked out 800 (reds for some slight infraction we never got confirmation on) at my last meet. Once you see that in person it kinda fucks with your sense of what's impressive for everyone else.
Well shit... Thought I was doing fairly well at 175 with 435 pulls. Guess I need to unwad my panties and just try harder.
Have you tried using *both* of your hands?
Wait... you can do that? I thought I just had bad genetics.
500 used to be a good deadlift here, back in like 2013. The new standard is 600.
I remember that too. Tbh I still think someone is strong if they can hit 4/3/5 on the big 3.
tfw 4.5/2.5/6 tfw benchlet
Those were about my numbers too before I got patellar tendinitis and had to spend time getting jacked. Now I’m more like 5.5/4.25/6.5. Forget about getting your upper body stronger, literally have a have a chest day and a shoulders and arms day. It’s awesome. I haven’t lifted heavy for my upper body in a couple years now and I’ve added 70kg to my bench and 25kg to my overhead press.
That's basically what I've resorted to recently. Just doing more higher rep work on incline bench and flat dumbbell. I just need a bigger chest and shoulders.
I haven’t done a single flat chest movement in 2 months and probably feel stronger than ever. My upper chest has also finally filled in. My chest routine is: * hammer strength chest press, work up to a hard set of 8 * incline barbell bench, work up to a heavy 6 (increase weight here whenever possible) * 4 sets of 10 incline hex press, * 4 sets of incline dumbbell press (or flyes, I rotate) to failure, with a forced stretch at the end of my last set (I get my training partner to push down on the dumbbells for 30s or so when they’re in the bottom position and get an insane stretch across my chest and shoulders) Usually get around 16 sets total. My front delts take a hammering from this so when I’m training my shoulders I just do a few sets of a plate loaded machine press for them and I’m happy enough. I basically train according to John Meadows’ mountaindog training philosophy and it’s been lifechanging I feel like the added chest/shoulder/triceps development from going through an incline really helps. Especially since the range of motion is huge compared to my flat bench with a decent arch. https://i.imgur.com/GyF20HA.jpg Now I actually look like I have pecs too which is nice
Looking solid, thick, tight. My upper chest is absolute garbage. I'm adding more volume over time. Are you hitting chest once per week?
Twice a week. My split is: chest, shoulders and arms, legs - twice a week. I do 5-10 sets of back exercises every day I’m in the gym (depending on fatigue), and I alternate heavy squats or deads on my leg day. I’ve also actually been training abs recently which is weird for me. First thing I do in the gym is 5 sets of facepulls supersetted with 5 sets of hanging leg raises. I haven’t had a shoulder or elbow or knee injury since I’ve started training like this. The way John Meadows structures his training, you do your ‘heavy’ work after you’ve already done a few sets of something to get a bit of a pump and get the right muscles firing. So you’re probably a little fatigued and lifting lighter weights. Definitely something that’s important to me as an injury prone lifter. Also it’s fun actually looking jacked and having big arms and an upper chest that pops out of my shirts.
>looking jacked and having big arms and an upper chest that pops out of my shirts I want that. I'm actually trying to build a home gym right now, so that I can train more. Sometimes I work like 80+ hours per week, and it gets to the point I literally just run out of time to go to the gym, if I plan on actually sleeping enough. If I could get my home gym set up, then I could just pop in for like 30 minutes/day and get quick workouts in during the busy weeks. The only problem is that I'm doing it in my storage space in the basement of my apartment building, and I'm still waiting on my landlord to give me the key to the space. I asked for it on 1/6/18, and he said he would get it to me ASAP. I've since sent him like 6 texts and called him 2-3 times (didn't answer) about it. He hasn't responded at all. I'm so ready to become home gym master race, and this cunt is holding me back. I feel like murdering him the next time I see him.
/posting "r/gatekeeping" should autocorrect to "I'm a lil puss puss."
"I'm soured up that I'm below what reasonable people think is a cutoff point for something and need a quick deflection"