lol yea. I feel yea. Typically I don’t get in Vatsim unless it’s an area not busy at all or if I’m just cruising through a center. But yea I’m not ready to takeoff or land a someplace like KJFK where it’s super busy and 15 different controllers are on in that area.
All the endless PMDG hate rants yet I knew, in the end, despite PMDG forums being a shithole and the company being run by a stubborn old cranky guy, this is what we would see.
I’m not entirely sure people actually hated PMDG to the degree they seemed to or just needed excuses to be angry over the delays.
Yup. Kok called it on their forums, when he said he knew that even the most vocal critics were going to buy it anyway. I guessed he was right about that at the time, and we see now for certain he was. Reddit, especially, is a really funny community... But that's true of most online communities.
What MK missed though is the huge piracy issue in MSFS. There is absolutely no protection and those who are really pissed of PMDG may easily go there and download it for free. By the comment section on that website that‘s a large number. I assume the less you like a company the easier it gets to pirate it.
The piracy will always be present, but it's such a tiny percentage compared to the purchases from the marketplace & 3rd-party sites that I don't think it will make much of a difference in their bottom line. At the end of the day most people will always choose the simplest buying option, even if it's expensive
It’s honestly like this because they’re the only game in town. If some other competitor came along with a far superior version of the 737 or 777, fans would go to that instead. And they know it, too. Competition is good for everyone.
Yeah but that’s the thing, it’s not that easy to make a comparable addon. Only developer out there that’s better is Fenix and they’ve only been able to release one plane in 4 years
I don’t think one can make the claim that Fenix is better (in good faith). They have a singular product, and it took ages to get where it is. You can make the claim when it comes to non flight related items i.e. cabin textures, cockpit doors etc sure but not on the most critical point.
Whether we like it or not, PMDG is still the head honcho in many respects and their sales amongst non casuals evidence it.
Also shoutout to Just Flight who’ve been nothing short of stellar in recent times. Other sim developers should follow their model.
You've clearly never even used Fenix. Fenix has a complete circuit breaker simulation, so I'm not sure how you can say the difference between Fenix and PMDG is only at the visual level.
>Fenix has a complete circuit breaker simulation.
This is a virtually useless feature, and at best a nice to have from a realism perspective. There is little to no QRH procedures on airliners involving breakers. Actually, pilots should really avoid messing with them entirely. On a twin duke or tbm I understand it more, but I’d rather they dedicate more time to the flight model. Especially in the lead up to v2, the Fenix had significant issues and till this day still suffers from flight model and dynamics issues that PMDG doesn’t as much. Anyone with actual experience in the 320 will tell you the Fenix has a float. The PMDG planes are also just more optimized.
OP suggested Fenix is better than PMDG, in some respects yes, but in other arguably more critical aspects including the flight model and optimization, no. Pros and Cons and all that.
Useless, yes - but it's also fully simulated if someone wants to go down that rabbit hole.
PMDG is inherently more optimized because they're using WASM for compilation to keep their legacy C++ code, which will always perform better as it's compiled to machine-code during runtime.
That’s great and all - I’m a current 737NG FO and have sat in the right seat in a320’s for 2000+ hours. The PMDG 737 > Fenix, flight model wise.
I’ll take a superior flight model over pointless CB’s and cabin textures but that’s just personal preference. I suppose when you have to fly from an office chair I can see why those things start to become more important for the realism.
I'm not arguing with you. I prefer hand-flying the 737 over the Fenix A320.
You worry about flying from your right seat, and I'll gladly school you on WASM from my office chair.
I own the Fenix and fly it regularly. I’m ashamed to admit it but I own virtually every single add on worth owning between just flight, PMDG, Fenix, flysimware, blacksquare, FSS, SWS, Inibuilds, et al.
Edit: since you changed the comment. I didn’t say the only difference is at the visual level, I said Fenix takes the edge visually/texture wise when it comes to cabin and so forth.
My point was that the Fenix is not superior on the most critical point, the flight model and handling characteristics of the plane.
Work on your reading comprehension?
>non flight related items **i.e. cabin textures, cockpit doors etc** sure but not on the most critical point.
🤣
Please do expand on what about the Fenix is superior to PMDG when it comes to the flight model or related elements.
Well sure, but that's the whole point. They see the sales they do because they make the best products for the sim. Nothing else matters to people; all this hand wringing and rhetoric about their forum behavior etc, in the end was not even a factor.
The sad part of that is, that PMDG think that just because they are successful, they are automatically right in everything.
Almost nobody actually criticized the product in the runup to release.
The criticisms of bad communication, toxic community and absolute inability of PMDG to hold themselves to their own promises or to admit failure when they don't, do not magically become irrelevant just because the released product is very good.
The fact that PMDG takes the sales success to be a license to bamboozle their own customers and explain in retrospect they didn't mean what they said is still a problem.
I can't stand PMDG and their horrendous customer relations, but at the end of the day I'm here for a quality product first and foremost.
If Randazzo and Kok took a public relations class I'm sure myself, and others, would I'd gladly buy all their variants, but as it is I keep it at the bare minimum.
think most people are fed up with the wait and then the product they got in return. I'm enjoying it though. Would be nice to have a few things changed but oh well
You can try doing the tutorial flight from the pmdg website https://777.pmdg.com/tutorial-flight/#/ and there are other YouTubers out there that take it a bit more easy :)
Probably better to watch videos from Blackbox711, especially considering he is currently flying the 787 that has the same type rating as the 777 I believe. A330Driver tends to be rather dogmatic and has some.... lets say interesting opinions about aircraft he has never even flown.
HAHA yea.... Besides the random 380 I just saw at KSFO... Nothing but 777's on Vatsim. While I'm doing an Alaska 739 to PHOG.
Enjoy the ETOPS man!
Someday I will try vatsim to, but to scared to mess it completely up.
I just did my first round the world segments of flights on an Alaska 739, no vatsim though. Not quite there in flight sim expertise lol
lol yea. I feel yea. Typically I don’t get in Vatsim unless it’s an area not busy at all or if I’m just cruising through a center. But yea I’m not ready to takeoff or land a someplace like KJFK where it’s super busy and 15 different controllers are on in that area.
All the endless PMDG hate rants yet I knew, in the end, despite PMDG forums being a shithole and the company being run by a stubborn old cranky guy, this is what we would see. I’m not entirely sure people actually hated PMDG to the degree they seemed to or just needed excuses to be angry over the delays.
Yup. Kok called it on their forums, when he said he knew that even the most vocal critics were going to buy it anyway. I guessed he was right about that at the time, and we see now for certain he was. Reddit, especially, is a really funny community... But that's true of most online communities.
What MK missed though is the huge piracy issue in MSFS. There is absolutely no protection and those who are really pissed of PMDG may easily go there and download it for free. By the comment section on that website that‘s a large number. I assume the less you like a company the easier it gets to pirate it.
The piracy will always be present, but it's such a tiny percentage compared to the purchases from the marketplace & 3rd-party sites that I don't think it will make much of a difference in their bottom line. At the end of the day most people will always choose the simplest buying option, even if it's expensive
It’s honestly like this because they’re the only game in town. If some other competitor came along with a far superior version of the 737 or 777, fans would go to that instead. And they know it, too. Competition is good for everyone.
Yeah but that’s the thing, it’s not that easy to make a comparable addon. Only developer out there that’s better is Fenix and they’ve only been able to release one plane in 4 years
that too with avionics code licensed from prosim
I don’t think one can make the claim that Fenix is better (in good faith). They have a singular product, and it took ages to get where it is. You can make the claim when it comes to non flight related items i.e. cabin textures, cockpit doors etc sure but not on the most critical point. Whether we like it or not, PMDG is still the head honcho in many respects and their sales amongst non casuals evidence it. Also shoutout to Just Flight who’ve been nothing short of stellar in recent times. Other sim developers should follow their model.
You've clearly never even used Fenix. Fenix has a complete circuit breaker simulation, so I'm not sure how you can say the difference between Fenix and PMDG is only at the visual level.
>Fenix has a complete circuit breaker simulation. This is a virtually useless feature, and at best a nice to have from a realism perspective. There is little to no QRH procedures on airliners involving breakers. Actually, pilots should really avoid messing with them entirely. On a twin duke or tbm I understand it more, but I’d rather they dedicate more time to the flight model. Especially in the lead up to v2, the Fenix had significant issues and till this day still suffers from flight model and dynamics issues that PMDG doesn’t as much. Anyone with actual experience in the 320 will tell you the Fenix has a float. The PMDG planes are also just more optimized. OP suggested Fenix is better than PMDG, in some respects yes, but in other arguably more critical aspects including the flight model and optimization, no. Pros and Cons and all that.
Useless, yes - but it's also fully simulated if someone wants to go down that rabbit hole. PMDG is inherently more optimized because they're using WASM for compilation to keep their legacy C++ code, which will always perform better as it's compiled to machine-code during runtime.
That’s great and all - I’m a current 737NG FO and have sat in the right seat in a320’s for 2000+ hours. The PMDG 737 > Fenix, flight model wise. I’ll take a superior flight model over pointless CB’s and cabin textures but that’s just personal preference. I suppose when you have to fly from an office chair I can see why those things start to become more important for the realism.
I'm not arguing with you. I prefer hand-flying the 737 over the Fenix A320. You worry about flying from your right seat, and I'll gladly school you on WASM from my office chair.
I own the Fenix and fly it regularly. I’m ashamed to admit it but I own virtually every single add on worth owning between just flight, PMDG, Fenix, flysimware, blacksquare, FSS, SWS, Inibuilds, et al. Edit: since you changed the comment. I didn’t say the only difference is at the visual level, I said Fenix takes the edge visually/texture wise when it comes to cabin and so forth. My point was that the Fenix is not superior on the most critical point, the flight model and handling characteristics of the plane. Work on your reading comprehension?
"Non-flight related items" Indeed, very specific in your writing.
>non flight related items **i.e. cabin textures, cockpit doors etc** sure but not on the most critical point. 🤣 Please do expand on what about the Fenix is superior to PMDG when it comes to the flight model or related elements.
Well sure, but that's the whole point. They see the sales they do because they make the best products for the sim. Nothing else matters to people; all this hand wringing and rhetoric about their forum behavior etc, in the end was not even a factor.
The sad part of that is, that PMDG think that just because they are successful, they are automatically right in everything. Almost nobody actually criticized the product in the runup to release. The criticisms of bad communication, toxic community and absolute inability of PMDG to hold themselves to their own promises or to admit failure when they don't, do not magically become irrelevant just because the released product is very good. The fact that PMDG takes the sales success to be a license to bamboozle their own customers and explain in retrospect they didn't mean what they said is still a problem.
I can't stand PMDG and their horrendous customer relations, but at the end of the day I'm here for a quality product first and foremost. If Randazzo and Kok took a public relations class I'm sure myself, and others, would I'd gladly buy all their variants, but as it is I keep it at the bare minimum.
think most people are fed up with the wait and then the product they got in return. I'm enjoying it though. Would be nice to have a few things changed but oh well
You can both hate the company but also agree that they make a good product. They are not mutually exclusive.
Where are you guys learning to fly it? I'd love to join the fun, but A330 Driver's tutorial is excessively in depth for most casual flight simmers
You can try doing the tutorial flight from the pmdg website https://777.pmdg.com/tutorial-flight/#/ and there are other YouTubers out there that take it a bit more easy :)
320 Sim Pilot
Probably better to watch videos from Blackbox711, especially considering he is currently flying the 787 that has the same type rating as the 777 I believe. A330Driver tends to be rather dogmatic and has some.... lets say interesting opinions about aircraft he has never even flown.
A320 simmer has a good tutorial and isn’t constantly bitching on Asobo and sucking PMDG’s dick
I’m in that picture!
if you look carefully, im one of the planes on there too!
My Concorde is also there!!
What i still don't get is.. when you buy an addon from the store, does it show up with the right model to other players?
I did my 777 flights and now I’m back at doing my short and medium hauls with the 737s and the A320s I like to keep it varied
How does vatsim handle sim rate acceleratio
It doesn’t. Don’t do it online
Can you please tell me your PC specs and how much FPS you get??? 🙏🙏
Tfdi also just launched their MD-11, so I've got a flight going in on that. I expect this post is about the 777, though, which I might pick up later.
What is it?
797-900
So a payware airliner?
The 797-2000 is only $3
So a payware airliner.
The Boebus 797-2000 is a great addon.
Airliners are not my thing, but good to know.
Not sure why you're receiving downvotes and silly responses to a genuine question. The PMDG B777 just released in MSFS
It’s the downvotes to his own silly responses that gets me
You ever heard of a 797?