Because they are designed to resemble the modern US govornment in many ways and has many of the same flaws its failings feel more real and therefore more impactful.
Guys wanting to steal all the laser weapons in the world or enslave everyone and dress like romans is divorced from our reality. Governments bowing to big businesses, taxing people who dont feel well represented in exchange for that taxation and treating their enlisted men like shit hit much closer to home.
That said i think most people not memeing know they are better than the legion, just that many think their self insert character with an army of robots could do a better job.
idk it makes sense a lot of people default in an RPG to "what would i do here"
Well what i would do if i was a borderline demi god without my own sensible fear of death.
Them and basically every video game protagonist ever.
Even fairly "grounded" and supposedly vulnerable protagonists usually end up with a triple digit body count by the end of the game.
“erm actually, my courier goes out and uses big MT technology to create a New Vegas utopia free of the problems of the world with the followers, which is why my ending is best”
I swear I kinda hate how Yes-Men mfs will insert their headcanon into arguments about endings. I’m sorry but not once do the ending slides barely hint at that. And it’s kinda stupid to argue it as a reason that the Yes-Men ending is superior when for all we know the courier could immediately die after the slides end or slowly turn into a dictator…
erm actually i use my big MT technology to run for election in the NCR and win by a massive landslide (i bribed the election officials with the proceeds of selling the technology to the brotherhood and stuffed the ballot box), and then proceed to cause yet another collapse of civilization due to my sheer incompetence.
I should start responding to Yes-Men headcanon mfs with my own NCR headcanons
or even worse, make up a Legion headcanon about my female courier freeing the slaves and giving women’s rights in the Legion
>or even worse, make up a Legion headcanon about my female courier freeing the slaves and giving women’s rights in the Legion
That is literally every pro-Legion idiot to be fair. All of them seem to say "MY COURIER WILL BECOME CAESAR BECAUSE OF THE GOLD COIN AND THEREFORE SLAVERY WILL END."
Legit *every* single one of the ones arguing in favour of them say it.
The ending slides for the Independent ending are exceptionally unsatisfying and I believe they left it vague because obviously you ruling the Mojave yourself is the best choice for anybody to see out whatever they believe is the best plan for the Wasteland. If they made the Independent ending as if the Courier didn't eat his brush gun 5 seconds after the game concluded it would be hard to choose anything else.
As a legion fan, I would never actually work towards their goals if I was the actual courier. If people got magically transported to the Mojave, no sane person would work for the Legion. Most would probably be more inclined towards the NCR as they are the ones actually building something.
I would argue that most people would work towards House, had them be dropped in the Courier's spot. Since he offers you the most benefit, being his protegee.
Of course, there is also yes-man which has you running the show, but i dont think would be most peoples choice? Just because is alot more work and risk on you.
It makes sense a Demi-god like being, who was able to solve 95% of the NCR’s problems in the Mojave within a month would do a better job. It’s just how the courier is portrayed. If they’re truly able to do all that is shown in the game in so little time, imagine what they could do given 10 years as a leader.
In reality, things would likely devolve into a terrible dictatorship, but that’s when thinking about real people. Not one who hunts down deathclaws just to make a breakfast omelette
I would honestly take rule by the Golden Horde over a bunch of establishment fucks who will gaslight me to my face. At least the Legion is honest about it.
Probably because they're the boring faction. They're too functional and they're problems are too mundane and relatable. Compare them to robot army Howard Hughes, Roman tribal slavers, or taking it all for yourself
Yeah this is it for me. If I was actually living in a post apocalyptic nuclear wasteland I would be terrified. Being under NCR jurisdiction would probably provide the closest feeling to safety, even if it’s actually a false sense of security.
However this is a video game. Going with the vanilla faction is fun due to the amount of quests, but not my preferred method of beating this game.
the average FNV redditor will go unironically in a lengthy rant on why they'll be doing better to run a country by themselves instead of a whole government
Californians moved to my town and drove up housing prices so locals can't afford to live here anymore, and even apartments were bought up and rented back to us at three times the price. So they're shoot on sight in-game.
I live in Austin and the Californians are usually either A.refugees who can no longer afford standard of living or B. Rich Californians who want to pay less taxes, and increase their profit further by buying real estate or moving their tech companies that ruined San Francisco over here
So if you manage an apartment building that is full with locals paying normal rent, you'd raise it to 3x the price since Californians are able to pay that while current locals wont. How is that not simple greed?
Housing costs would have gone up regardless of where the people came from. Blame local politicians for making your area desirable to move to. You want cheaper housing? Change zoning laws and build more housing.
"Build more housing" is genuinely the best thing to do though. Whenever housing crises happen, it's normally because politicians subsidize demand but do nothing to increase the supply.
If a slew of high income Alabamans did, then housing prices would still go up lol. The statement being made is high income earners from states like California moved to lower income areas outside of their state, but were able to offer/pay more for houses than the locals normally could, thus driving the prices of previously affordable housing up.
But who sets these prices up to begin with? It's not as if high income earners would gladly play premium just because they can. It's simply property owners seizing an opportunity to profit.
I wasn’t planning on having a discussion about economics on the new Vegas sub but here we go lol. If you’ve been following the housing market over the last 5ish years, you’ll know it’s not that simple as either of those things. Covid presented the opportunity for remote workers (ie higher income white collar jobs) to move to lower cost of living areas (ie predominantly lower income blue collar areas) while keeping their high income salaries. The first few people to do this didn’t affect housing prices much, but A LOT of people started doing this and there was more demand for houses in these areas. Bidding wars happened driving up prices as people offered more money than the last guy - this is exactly how any auction works. On top of that interest rates were super low, so people were willing to offer more for the house because they’d be paying less in interest so it evened out anyway. So #1 yes, people absolutely were willing to pay a premium, especially if that premium still ends up being wayyy cheaper than if they bought in their home state. #2 - now that demand in this area has increased and people have been paying more for these houses, the average price of recently sold houses has increased significantly. Not sure if you’ve ever sold a house, but a realtor will look at sales over the last 6-12 months to help you decide on a sale price. If your house was valued at $200k last year, but all of your neighbors houses sold for $300k this year, why would you list at $200k? If someone is willing to pay you more, you’d be dumb not to take that. Sure, it is the seller taking the opportunity to seize a profit…but that’s simple economics. If you have something someone wants and is willing to pay for it, why would you screw yourself out of the money? AND on top of that, even if you did list it for $200k, you would be undercutting the market so much that the demand would be absurd and you’d end up with offers for $300k anyway. It sounds crazy, and it is crazy, but that’s the reality of it.
The thing is, this now fucks the people who were originally from this town who are still working their lower income blue collar jobs. Their income hasn’t changed much but now housing prices have erupted. They’ve basically been priced out of their own town because out of towners moved in and bought up all the homes that would have been previously available, and increased the prices for any new ones that have come on the market.
Texas and California have virtually identical crime rates. The tax thing is true though (but then there's the whole privately run power grid thing that pops up every other year)
Then why would you pick Texas to use as a comparison. It has massive cities with terrible crime rates. I was thinking more like Alabama as an example or something. Granted I don’t live in any of these dates I live in Mississippi and yeah the housing market is up a little bit up right now but I don’t think that’s because of the Californians pouring in lol
Likely because they've never played FO1 or 2. So they only have a very face value of what the NCR is from what's seen in FNV. Most FO fans only started with FO3.
You have to remember several key things.
\- What you see in FNV is just the new frontier of the NCR and not what the heartlands look like.
\- NCR are one of the only factions in FO to have taxes. So of course the citizens are going to complain about them, just like we do now. Yet, taxes are necessary for a modern society to pay for public utilities. You also have to consider this, they're complaining about taxes. Taxes. Not famine, not malnutrition, infant mortality, raiders, basically anything you'd expect in a post apocalyptic society.
\- People don't seem to understand just how well developed the NCR homelands are now. The simple fact they have a military industrial complex, the ability to mass produce weapons and armour for all their troops is something other factions can't compete with. They have railroads and trucks, the Powder Gangers were literally in New Vegas to repair the railroad. Which again, means no other faction can compete with them in terms of moving materials and manpower. They have corporations, actual corporations, with headquarters and franchises, tell me another faction that has that.
The NCR are a juggernaut. They're back to early-mid 1900's technology levels at minimum. Where the rest of the wasteland is still scavenging.
You forgot the part where people are taxed yet are still not protected, even though that's the main point.
Until later on, the NCR rangers are purposefully set aside in Bajo doing nothing valuable because Oliver is insecure and has enough influence in the government to do that.
All of the southern Mojave was either razed by the Legion, besiged by Powder Gangers, about to be attacked by them, or overrun by creatures.
Lots of us think the NCR are incompetent because neglecting your last supply route home that much out of political infighting is incompetence. Not just from Oliver, but the government supporting his antics.
As every side your chose on New Vegas has a pretty big disadvantage,they're not that different. When you play the game and explore around you will notice how most of the orders they get make no sense,they're commanded by either greedy or corrupt man and thus such situations happen,such as "no we can't get down the street and shoot 3 bandits"
Because I am stuck in California and seek to contain its expansion.
Deeper than the memes, I find them safe, stable, and ultimately boring. They’re a kind of inevitable that feels like it sucks the joy out of the wild Mojave by making it feel more like real life. Sure I’ve done wholesome good boy NCR runs and they felt like just that, the moral good route.
But I’ve been thinking. The NCR is less good in itself, and more can be good in spite of itself. We see a lot of examples of their worse nature in New Vegas. Torturing prisoners, willingness to execute local leaders, whole tribes, endemic corruption and incompetence that gets people killed. With the Courier’s help, they can win a moral victory.
But what if I didn’t try, and just went with the flow of things? Just went with whatever was asked. Oops, the King said no, time to go see Colonel Moore and help her slaughter the whole gang. That could be a more interesting run.
The NCR isn’t a perfect utopia and therefore it’s literally hell on Earth when compared to their Yesman perfect utopia fanfic they invented and decided was canon to the game. Also the “muh taxes” thing parroted by what I can only assume are literal children.
You also have the deranged people who headcanon the NCR as some dystopian society no different to the Legion and genuinely believe it because ????
People have an understanding of politics informed by fairy tales. They're used to stories where the Good King's rule makes the Good Kingdom flourish - and the peasants are all happy and the fountains are full of lemonade - while the Evil Emperor's rule makes the Evil Empire suffer - and the peasants are all dressed in rags and the landscape is grey and pointy.
They see the NCR and think 'oh this must be the Good Kingdom =)' but then they hear that the NCR has problems and think 'they tricked me, this is actually the Evil Empire >=('. They can't grasp the concept that a nation might have problems for any reason other than because its leaders are Bad and its people are Bad.
Dude that long paragraph below this one is almost word for word what you described. Calling the NCR slavers and saying their Yes Man courier would solve all Mojave issues.
Jesus sometimes I wonder if these people pay attention to the games they play, or if they even played the game at all and instead downloaded their opinion from a Youtuber.
The muh taxes is a decent argument, when they’re trying to tax people living in outer vegas, like Orion Merino. Imagine living in the same house for over a decade, and the ncr has the audacity to try and tax you. Calling you a squatter if you dont pay up, despite not even being an ncr citizen.
Simple, old world blues. They keep trying to emulate the old government with all of its benefits and flaws; the same government that led to the apocalypse.
Caesar is no different imo. Same principle, other side of the spectrum.
I mean, you can’t really blame democracies for the end of the world in FO. By the time of the Great War the US was a totalitarian state calling itself a democracy. Brutalising its own citizens, annexing Canada against its will, killing Canadian citizens, etc. Then there’s China, still a Communist state, there’s 2 sides to a coin, it wasn’t just the US that dropped the bombs.
So I don’t really agree with House’s assumption on the failure of democracies.
It's true we can't fully blame democracy for the cause of the apocalypse. Rather it's greed both in the part of china and the US. Goes to show that regardless of ideology, you can't really suppress the human nature of greed.
NCR mirrors and mimics old world government including its benefits and flaws. What's stopping NCR from going through the same route as in pre-war america?
I have genuine dislike for them for many reasons.
I have no interest in debating as I've had this debate in this and other subs many times already and it rarely ends well.
But for you OP I will state my reasons
Many citizens in the Mojave don't want them there
The taxes instilled cause Goodsprings to have their worst non-legion ending.
If the NCR is given governance of Primm there are statements by NPC's that "Things are going to change" and as a result Primm's slide reflects that it doesn't do nearly as well as it would under a different sheriff and government.
They don't ACTUALLY care about the common person. They only care about money as seen in how they REFUSE to go across the literal street to help Primm against Powder Gangers (which are literally the NCR's mess to clean up)
The NCR despite it's alleged power won't take out the Powder Gangers at the NCR facility unless the player get's involved and should you side with the Gangers to repell the NCR attack, they NEVER try again as seen in the slide where the Gangers rule that area
Speaking of the Powder Gangers, they are proof the NCR still practice slavery. Just in the form of "forced labor as punishment for crimes" Regardless of said crime, all those gangers, even the ones who were only there on PETTY THEFT had hard forced labor as their sentence
The NCR either can't or won't take out the Fiends which condemned an entire Vault to doom with the only survivors being saved by the Courier.
As House says the NCR only played nice with Freeside and Vegas proper because he forced them too and because the Legion were such a real threat.
The NCR don't want to make peace with the BoS or the Khans. In fact there's an NCR Captain that outright get's pissed if you DO broker peace.
Rather than focus on hiring locals to help with farming and other labor brought in their own people leaving hundreds if not thousands of Freeside and Westside citizens without a job and with less territory.
The NCR displaced Hundreds if not thousands of Mojave citizens because they came in and decided all the Mojave was their's. Especially if you look at the mostly empty houses around outer Vegas. It's all either NCR or Fiend territory now. Hell the one former Enclave dude even says that the NCR have been going into people's homes and forcing them out because they now arbitrarily own the area despite people having lived there for ages.
All in all the NCR are nothing but Imperialist slavers who pretend to be the good guys. All they care about is money and power just like any other major corrupted government.
Independence for life
>Many citizens in the Mojave don't want them there
I mean, yeah, it's an occupation, but it's hardly the first time in history this has happened. Nothing new for a country to take over new land by force, and if anything the NCR are doing it far more peacefully.
>The taxes instilled cause Goodsprings to have their worst non-legion ending.
Everyone complains about taxes. That's hardly new, taxes have been complained about since the dawn of civilization. There's 2 scenarios that will happen 1) Goodsprings becomes a ghost-town, see many of the real life examples, and the population moves to another city. 2) Goodsprings thrives in time.
>If the NCR is given governance of Primm there are statements by NPC's that "Things are going to change" and as a result Primm's slide reflects that it doesn't do nearly as well as it would under a different sheriff and government.
"After Hoover Dam, NCR helps rebuild Primm as a major stopping point on the Long 15. Though Primm's citizens chafe under NCR's taxes, **they benefit greatly from the increased protection and merchant traffic.**"
Yep, sounds terrible. Oh no, taxes.
>They don't ACTUALLY care about the common person. They only care about money as seen in how they REFUSE to go across the literal street to help Primm against Powder Gangers (which are literally the NCR's mess to clean up)
It's almost like they're soldiers, who act under orders and would be punished for going AWOL. The NCR have a formal military, not a band of tribal's.
>The NCR despite it's alleged power won't take out the Powder Gangers at the NCR facility unless the player get's involved and should you side with the Gangers to repell the NCR attack, they NEVER try again as seen in the slide where the Gangers rule that area
This is due to cut content. There was meant to be an alternate path for the player to directly start the assault with the NCR. You also don't have to side with the Gangers, you can immediately stab the Gangers in the back and alert the NCR.
>Speaking of the Powder Gangers, they are proof the NCR still practice slavery. Just in the form of "forced labor as punishment for crimes" Regardless of said crime, all those gangers, even the ones who were only there on PETTY THEFT had hard forced labor as their sentence
This is a topic of debate, penal labour is incredibly common even today. It's literally allowed under the 13th Amendment of the US constitution. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."**
>The NCR either can't or won't take out the Fiends which condemned an entire Vault to doom with the only survivors being saved by the Courier.
Before the Legion came they were.
"Kimball rose to prominence as the Hero of the Mojave when he led a campaign of reprisals against tribals who dared to attack NCR citizens."
>As House says the NCR only played nice with Freeside and Vegas proper because he forced them too and because the Legion were such a real threat.
Going to need a fact check on that. There's literally an NCR relief mission and the Followers assisting the people of Freeside.
**"The NCR is distributing supplies in a building down by the old train station."**
>The NCR don't want to make peace with the BoS or the Khans. In fact there's an NCR Captain that outright get's pissed if you DO broker peace.
Yeah, so? There's historical grievances with both of them. The Khans have been an enemy of the NCR since before they were the NCR. The NCR also recently had a war with the BoS, and somewhat recently pushed them out of Helios. Of course a patriot will be pissed. Also, out of all 4 endings NCR is only 1 of 2 where you can save the BoS.
>Rather than focus on hiring locals to help with farming and other labor brought in their own people leaving hundreds if not thousands of Freeside and Westside citizens without a job and with less territory.
They don't have power over the Mojave citizens, they're not NCR citizens yet. The NCR as a government can put up incentives to get people to begin starting industries in the new Mojave territory.
>The NCR displaced Hundreds if not thousands of Mojave citizens because they came in and decided all the Mojave was their's. Especially if you look at the mostly empty houses around outer Vegas. It's all either NCR or Fiend territory now. Hell the one former Enclave dude even says that the NCR have been going into people's homes and forcing them out because they now arbitrarily own the area despite people having lived there for ages.
This is fair, but you have to remember, it's also an active warzone. This is pretty typical in war to move civilians to a safer location.
All in all. The NCR aren't anymore evil than the worlds governments today. They're just more of the same.
All in all tho General Oliver is a douche bag, and should die. He's sabotaging all the rangers out of pettiness, (which rangers are one of the NCRs best argument points) because oh my God they did the horrible act of winning the first war. So he sacrifices thousands of soldiers "for glory" to do things the rangers could easily do. And if you do win you let this guy, and his idiot president best friend stay in office for life. because they would be beloved, for bringing Vegas to the people. NCR doesn't have term restrictions. Kinda like Tandi, she stayed in office until death. If that was who was in office, I wouldn't mind them taking the Mojave. But with current leadership, they need to lose. So your beloved faction can catch it's breath, and continue to exist. First by axing Kimball, and Oliver.
That's real life though. Generals suck sometimes. Lots of Generals are political yes men rather than actual warriors. I was an officer in the Army and I watched Captains sacrifice the wellbeing of their troops without a second thought just for a OER bullet (better rating). What happens when that Captain becomes a general after a career of fucking over soldiers? Colonels I knew did the same shit. I knew a Colonel that forced a unit to deploy to a war zone where they would serve no purpose and do absolutely nothing just so he could say he commanded that specific "exotic" unit in a combat environment on his rating.
Hsu, a good leader, getting passed over for promotion by Oliver, a timid yes man, is such a realistic depiction of the modern military in my experience and based on that of so many others. One reason I absolutely love the NCR is that their Army feels so real. The soldiers feel real, the good leaders being absolutely exhausted and passed over for promotion feels real, the confusing orders from the top that don't align with what guys on the ground are seeing feels real, and rangers feel so real with some of their less experienced guys running around with a chip on their shoulder but that battle hardened ones being chill.
I love the NCR because I love their troopers. In a way they remind me of ours and I love doing every quality of life enhancing mission that I possibly can for those soldiers.
As I stated I will not be debating this as it never ends well
I know my positions are valid and any counter that uses the logic of "it's more of the same" or "real countries do this all the time" is not a valid counter argument for I desire for something different and better than what really exists and NV gives me that chance to mold a world to such a better society
Enjoy your evening
>The NCR displaced Hundreds if not thousands of Mojave citizens because they came in and decided all the Mojave was their's. Especially if you look at the mostly empty houses around outer Vegas. It's all either NCR or Fiend territory now.
Wait, what? Where are you getting that from? Just from Orion Moreno saying the NCR have been trying (and, obviously, failing) to get him to move? I can see them wanting to use his house - he's right over the road from their farms. But why do you assume that every empty house in the greater Vegas area was emptied by the NCR? And, if it was, why didn't they start by evicting people who lived closest to them, instead of the furthest away?
My issues with House are a more personal one. As in I don't like his personality. He's extremely arrogant. There's an argument to be made that he's earned his arrogance. After all he did ensure Vegas wasn't completely obliterated. But he also had his securitrons for 2 centuries and rather than immediately try and fix the Mojave he stayed in his Ivory Tower and did nothing. It wasn't until the NCR and Legion came to his doors that he got off his ass and took initiative. Basically everything he want's to do, I'd want to do, but I feel his ultimate sin is being lazy and letting things get as bad as they have been.
Why allow Westside and Freeside to be so run down? Why not incorporate them into Vegas? Make the Kings a 4th family.
Expand Vegas's influence.
Additionally what he did to Vault 21 was entirely cruel and didn't need to happen. Again he could have brought them into the fold. Hell I would have had MORE respect for him had he played a gambling game, any of them, and won Or even cheated to win (without the Vault Dweller's knowledge) to gain control of the vault rather than just muscling in and ruining those people's home's.
He represents all the wasted potential of his station.
Under my leadership for the Mojave, Vegas would expand and thrive. People would be taken care of. The Fiends and other super violent gangs like them would be eradicated.
People would truly be able to thrive. I don't need to tax them into oblivion. I'd keep Vegas's tourism going.
NCR citizens would still come.
Hell, I'd make deals with Happy Trails caravan and the gunrunners to keep buisiness booming.
Speaking of Booms, I'd help the Boomers make deals with the Gunrunners too.
Again, my issues with House is that I just don't like him as a person and the wasted time and potential angers me. He could and SHOULD have done more
I thought the reason house didn't do anything until the NCR arrived, was because without the chip he wasn't able to defend properly. So his systems got shot, and until the NCR restored power he was in hibernation, trying to conserve enough to wake up. But when they did restore it, he than was able to awaken safely, and get to work. If he had the chip he would have saved Nevada as a whole. But wasn't able to get it in time. My biggest problem was he kept this nuke destroyer tech, to himself. But it makes some amount of sense, because the government would have than still been instilled at that point, and controlling people.
My issue with house is his knowledge of omertà sex slavery and drug dealing and doing nothing about it. Even under a change in management to Cachino, nothing changes. They all deserve death for employing that psycho Clandin
This just reads like a Yes Man fanfic power trip. “Under my leadership” sounds a bit presumptuous when some of the slides seem that life becomes more violent and anarchic in independent Vegas. I’m not huge NCR fan by any means (nor House), but to call them slavers due to their punishment policies is quite strong considering the Legion has actual slaves. Also House was not active for two centuries, the taxing nature of shooting down nukes put him out of commission for a good long while.
"when some of the slides seem that life becomes more violent and anarchic in independent Vegas."
If you do high karma and do all the "good" things but still go Indy the only slide that further says things are violent, at least more than any other ending, is the FoA slide. But that has contradictions with Arcade's slide mentioning how he helps them and minimizes their issues. It contradicts the King's slide when they talk about Freeside's thriving. It contradicts the yes Man slide itself when it mentions how quickly the anarchy turns to calm.
It's JUST the FoA that have any sort of negative impact for the Mojave.
Arguably the Boomers too, but they also don't make sense in the context of all the other slides. Really their issue is that apparently the Courier fails to get them to open up despite the fact Pearl herself TELLS the Courier they plan to slowly open relations. It's a plothole for sure.
Hence under my leadership I'd nurture those relations.
What does House do? Ignore them.
All I’m saying is you can’t say that certain factions are inherently bad because you would do better. For all intents and purposes the Courier (you) could be murdered by some Merc days after the end of the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam. I don’t like the NCR but don’t shit on them by saying “well I would do better.”
I am not going to debate this further. As per my initial post, I've had this argument one too many times and it never ends well
Just know that you will not change my mind and I don't have the mental fortitude to try and convince you to change yours.
Just know all my reasons for hating the NCR are valid and many agree with me.
Legion is terrible for all
And House isn't my kind of guy to lead
1. House was in a coma because without the platinum chip's software updates his systems kept crashing after he shot down most of the nukes aimed at the Vegas area. That's why he took so long to be able to do anything. By the time he woke up it was a wasteland full of tribals.
2. He actually did gamble with Vault 21 and won. While a reason for filling it in was never given, it does connect to an elevator in the Tops, and was going to be part of how you would assassinate House before that sequence was cut and the vault was filled in on a meta level.
Much like Joshua Graham says, better than Legion, but that's it.
I am with Mr. House. He can take care of boring economics, while I can enforce rule of independent city-state in Mojave.
Hanlon gives clear insight that NCR needs to pause it's expansion and focus on infrastructure and well-being of it's population. California First. Legion will crumble on it's own.
NCR is basically the pre-war US and haven't learned from the US's mistakes.
Which means that the NCR deep down is still the capitalistic, oligarchical, imperialist nation that the US is.
The NCR is hated because they're basically just the modern day Democratic party, institutionalists obsessed with proceduralism, expansion of Empire, and institutional power that benefits the wealthy who fund their re-elections while ignoring the people on the ground who have to live in the systems they build. But they ARE better than the other main faction, a group of rapist frat boys playing at reigniting the flame of a mythological prelapsarian (uncucked) society they hold no actual claim to while destroying everything around them and making everyone miserable because of their psychosexual hangups. God I fucking hate how New Vegas came out more than a decade ago and it's only getting more politically relevant to American society 😭
>the modern day Democratic party,
Is the modern day Republican party any better in your eyes?
>power that benefits the wealthy
Tell me that Republican tax policies aren't aimed at that exact thing.
I like the NCR I just wish they didn’t lock you out so quickly. Like I can be an absolute god send for the NCR, getting some of their troops trained up, fixing the water supply for their crops, clearing supply lines etc. but if I Tell house I dealt with one of the families I’m out and they don’t need my help anymore, even though they wanted the Omertas dealt with too…
It’s a pretty excellent bit of characterization for the NCR, as soon as it becomes apparent you MIGHT be working against a goal they actually care about they’re perfectly happy to label you a terrorist or whatever without any benefit of the doubt
Caesar takes tributes, Mr. House taxes hugely on the Strip, and yet anyone only complains about the NCR taxes when it's the only faction that's using taxes to rebuild infrastructure and society. They're not a perfect government but much better than a Roman facade that will crumble when its leader dies or a self admitted autocrat that will possibly never die with no accountability or checks on power besides himself.
Exactly- anyone who thinks House and the Legion don’t also tax their subjects wasn’t paying attention.
I think a lot of the people who say this though are Yes-Man supporters who think they’re gonna create some perfect utopia that will somehow function without any sort of taxation, even though that has never historically happened either in the Fallout universe or the real world.
Sorry but that's BS. Nobody has ever attacked anyone for *just* liking the Legion. People in this subreddit and the other NV subreddit post 10-20 paragraphs about how the Legion are morally correct. I've literally seen them myself.
No it isn't. The majority of people are fans of the NCR or Yes Man/Independent. The majority of posts is about them and shitting on the Legion. I mean how many screenshots of someone sitting on Caesar's throne surrounded by corpses do we need.
Rarely someone does one of those posts about them being morally correct, and they always get highly downvoted. Same for people who comment such things in other threads. Which makes sense, because sharing those views in real life is not good. But many who are just enjoying the Legion, making posts about how they could work in the Wasteland, or talk about their lore etc, are also often downvoted and have people drowning out the discussion with the usual comments about inaccurate lore or making redundant they're bad because slavery or mention how they always shoot Legionaries and teabag them. I've seen people accused of being fascists, sexists, and many other ists, because they just wanted to discuss the Legion which they liked in their roleplaying game.
Sure there are those idiots who are fascists etc, but many are also not, yet we need to make a disclaimer that we're not when talking about a fictional faction in a game.
Well yeah people shit on the Legion - they rape kids and women, they're fucking disgusting people. Antony is a pedophile who thinks Melody shouldn't be allowed clothes. Maybe if the Legion had at least 1 NPC who wasn't *pure evil* they wouldn't have such a harsh reputation.
I'm guessing most of these claims are made **off** the subreddits, because I haven't seen any of these claims. I have however seen DOZENS of pro-Legion threads pop up in constant defence of the Legion.
>making posts about how they could work in the Wasteland,
Yes, aka promoting the Legion. In the same way posting pro-Enclave nonsense is just lunacy. I don't think anyone *wants* them to occupy the wasteland so there's no point making arguments about it. The Legion have no depth to them. They're worse than Raiders.
>Yes, aka promoting the Legion. In the same way posting pro-Enclave nonsense is just lunacy. I don't think anyone *wants* them to occupy the wasteland so there's no point making arguments about it. The Legion have no depth to them. They're worse than Raiders.
Oooor, talking about it from a roleplaying, story making, or world building view. The wasteland is a harsh place often and for some the Legion might sound appealing than what they have. It even is to some according lore. It's fun to discuss what ifs, possible lore etc, it's not "promoting", whatever that's supposed to mean. Well fun when people aren't saying things like you do, which sounds like taking it too serious. Worse than raiders, geez. No one is as bad as raiders, that's kinda their thing.
In the game I dislike them and go yes man. There’s not really a single faction I could see myself being satisfied working with/under if I was actually in that universe. The NCR is probably the most stable. It has its issues but it won’t collapse if one elderly man with a tumor dies.
Really a lose lose lose situation
Because there's a subsection of the fanbase that believes ncr is the unironic shining hero good guy faction. So after a while the discourse turned against that idea.
For every culture, several different counter cultures that will take issue with the popular sentiment.
Since then, it's kind of evened out. So along with the NCR fans, there now is what seems to be an equal sized faction of NCR criticizers that will show up and give their take when the weekly faction discussion arises.
The two bad guys are the Legion and the NCR, but the Legion are so comically evil that it doesn't even need saying
The NCR, however, represent American imperialism, which is *not* comically evil, it's evil that makes sense. "Overthrow the tinpot dictator, bring democracy" is an ideology that a reasonable person can get behind, and so our brains take it seriously as a threat
personally i like the ncr, more than i like the legion at least. i liked how i could join them and choose to make alliances with some of the smaller tribes as opposed to going to war with them, pretty sure you can’t do that with caesar
as Jesus says in the Bible, give to caesar what belongs to caesar, and God what belongs to God. Bible quotes aside, I think there's a lot less freedom with joining caesar because you submit your life to him
yea i never liked the legion anyways, they took the roman aesthetic and military strategies but none of the technological advances or anything like that
It's partly memeing, because the game kind of props them up as the "obvious" and familiar-feeling choice but once you start diving deeper into them you start to see that they're actually quite flawed.
That said, in real life, I would rather have them in charge than House or my insane courier with a hackable army of robots.
Hate the legion, you should. But in answer, because it reminds us of the US government. You can find a pretty diverse array of people that have all sorts of reasons to hate on the US government.
I don't hate the ncr and they're a way better choice than an army of gay cosplayers who worship a bald guy with a tumor 💀. The ncr have their flaws but don't we all, it's what makes us human.
Most good leaders are, to a certain extent. The best person who was president in modern history (Carter) turned out to be fairly ineffective in the role. As an ex-president, though, he's great.
Something crawled up the collective asses of a bunch of NCR fans recently and all of a sudden it's become trendy to shit on the Independent ending; That's where the resentment comes from, it's a reaction to all of the sudden hate for the Independent ending. I don't get it, myself; I go for the Independent ending *because* I'm an NCR fan. That's the whole point of my flair.
For me the NCR is just the Wasteland United States Empire and I hate the US Empire in Real Life and would love to see it collapse so I can't support Wasteland US Empire that said I don't like the Legion or Mr House either and end up going with Yes Man by default because that's all that left and even then, I'm not a huge fan of Yes Man either.
It's because they're so totally inept and their rare moments of success happen off screen.
Imagine that the courier is removed from the story. The NCR would get absolutely demolished. Their morale is non-existent, they have rampant supply problems, infiltrators are striking with impunity deep within what is supposedly NCR secured territory.
And what is the army giving them so much trouble? A literal horde of spear-chucking savages.
They're fashionable to hate, they're a facsimile for the American status quo. If you have been a victim of that status or just imagine yourself to be, it can be enraging to see business as usual persisting in the future.
The reason they don't piss me off is that it's not enraging though. I gladly hem them in and side with a particular despot if it means giving them boundaries. But at the end of the day they're a plebiscite doing their best to provide for their citizens: I just don't think that means a grinding attack against the Legion and its eventual remnants, what House provides us singularly useful. They're doing a pretty damn good job relative to everyone else of not being bigoted tribal assholes, and I love 'em for that even when they overrun other identities with options.
Being least worst is still a ratchet to better.
Thanks everyone for the feedback! I appreciate more than anything.
Most people in the comments have a strong hate for Californians, and as a Californian, I don't blame you at all, anybody that would support such a woke and expensive toxic government would be crazy, I only live here because of my family.
It's an imperialist dictatorship which is unfit to rule the Mojave because of blarring issues that only the courier could fix (their violent methods, their famine and similar). It's not a "stable" decision when the first problem that arises (and the courier is no longer here to fix it) will be solved by the NCR either with genocide or with annexation, and then of course proclaim whatever group attacked them to be "savages" or "terrorist" when they inevitably experience blowback.
The amount of NCR apologists in here talking shite about "Yes Man fanboys", devolving criticism to "muh taxes" is the most collective pile of hypocrisy I've seen in awhile.
You're baffled why people complain or don't like the NCR?
Let me be more descriptive.
"Yet, taxes are necessary for a modern society to pay for public utilities. You also have to consider this, they're complaining about taxes. Taxes. Not famine, not malnutrition, infant mortality, raiders, basically anything you'd expect in a post apocalyptic society."
u/Jarms48
Funny thing about taxes, is that if you're taking money from people, but not giving them sufficient gains in return, they get pissed. That's how America formed. See this so I don't have to repeat myself. [https://www.reddit.com/r/fnv/comments/1afx54y/comment/kogzekf/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/fnv/comments/1afx54y/comment/kogzekf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
"Likely because they've never played FO1 or 2. So they only have a very face value of what the NCR is from what's seen in FNV. Most FO fans only started with FO3."
Also Jarms
Applies to me, BUT I happen to have read about the stories in both games, and know that the NCR in NV is a shadow of its former self that would have Tandi rolling in her grave. Nothing good will come from them winning the Mojave and Dam, because it will give the NCR the wrong idea that their aggressive, resource-guzzling expansion is right. How many more lakes need to be dried before something changes? The best thing for the NCR is to be smacked in the face, sent home, and have a change in leadership from the Warhawks, something a Yesman/House Ending has the best shot of doing. I don't need to have played a certain video game to know they're being worse than they were before and need an intervention.
"People have an understanding of politics informed by fairy tales."
u/OverseerConey
Complaining about simplicity of others while your rhetoric of it is simplistic as well.
The NCR in the game, led by Warhawks and Oliver-supporters, have prioritized the General's ambition over the well-being of the Mojave and the campaign itself. Their only supply route left to the Dam is overrun with Legion attacks, Powder Gangers, Super Mutants, and creatures; meanwhile, the vast majority of the Rangers have been ordered to Bajo because Oliver wants to keep them from stealing his glory.
If my fairy tale-level understanding of politics is enough to know that's malicious incompetence that needs to be dealt with immediately, what is your excuse for ignoring it to make the NCR look better?
The Larpers of the other 3 Endings are annoying, but the NCR apologists are easily the worst not only because there's more of them, but they act so righteous about them and their own rhetoric.
I haven't beaten it (40 hours in so far) but I'm going ncr cuz it seems the most likely to survive and i just can't bare to get the bad ending (I will feel horrible if the slavers win) and house and yes man just seem boring. House is just a 200 year old grape (I saved and broke into his little vault thingy to see what was there) and yes man is a robot. So ncr.
Because bringing back the United States government would be hella cringe. Caesar's Legion is also hella cringe though. Good thing this isn't Skyrim and we can take them both on.
The incompetent way they're fighting the Legion, stretching themselves so thin that everything else is halfassed.
Like handing out food to NCR citizens (good) near the strip, causing non-citizens to resent them (stupid).
Or sending Alice to Crimson Caravan to get it run more efficiently (good) and she organizes hits on competing companies (evil).
The terrible security they had when Kimball comes to make his speech, spies in McCarran, being disjointed enough to hire Fantastic at Helios.
That fucking idiot running Camp Golf.
Stuff like that, then they try to swoop in and save the day after I (and my benevolent dictator's bots) do most of the heavy lifting. (Zero chance I ever do a Yes Man run.)
NCR was really made to look buffoonish in FNV.
>Like handing out food to NCR citizens (good) near the strip, causing non-citizens to resent them (stupid).
To be fair, they wanted to hand out food to everyone. Then Pacer and his goons beat their representative half to death, the NCR thought the King did it, the King didn't even know it had happened, and the whole thing nearly fell through.
>Or sending Alice to Crimson Caravan to get it run more efficiently (good) and she organizes hits on competing companies (evil).
The Crimson Caravan is not a government-run organisation - it's a private business. The NCR didn't send her - the Crimson Caravan's executives sent her.
Yeah, she's the kind of scummy corporate type you get in any capitalist system. At least, in one of the endings to that quest, you can give the NCR the evidence they need to put through better regulations. Shows there's at least a faction within the government trying to get that sector under control.
They try to act morally superior to the Legion when they are almost just as bad. They commited atrocities like the Bitter Springs Massacre where non-combatants were massacred and execute the Misfits via hanging if you don't train them properly.
Then there's their incompetence and weakness - Primm for example has about 10 Powder Gangers in it yet the whole NCR camp sits on it's ass whilst the residents lock themself indoors in fear. The Mojave Outpost has like 5 bugs outside of it but they need to Courier to kill them instead of just doing it theirselves. President Kimball's assasination is only ever prevented through direct intervention by the Courier.
There is literally nowhere the NCR has been that is doing well - they all need the courier to swoop in and deal with their problems. The Legion seem to be doing fine on their own and House and Yes Man only use the courier as a proxy due to the physical limitiations of their bodies.
It's honestly annoying how the game treats them as the 'good' faction in how you can magically use speech to ally the NCR with the Khans and Brotherhood but you can't with House and the Brotherhood because then there would be zero drawbacks with House.
Kimball assassination when you’re on the NCR side: “we are hopeless and can’t even bother to check that there isn’t a bomb dangling off of the helicopter”
Kimball assassination when you’re on the Legion side: “Look, that guy in NCR clothing fifty yards away looks suspicious, he’s clearly the assassin!”
Bitter Springs is *one* tiny event against a gang of brutal child murderers vs 87 genocides for the Legion, and New Canaan in which their little lapdogs the White Legs beat children to death in their beds.
They are NOT as bad as the Legion. They are flawed and have deep problems but no, they are not morally as bad as the Legion. The Legion rapes children for shits and giggles for fuck's sake.
One of the first things you learn about them is they are using prisoners for slave labour and enforce martial law. They pretend to be the civil faction but do a lot of things they say they are fighting against.
There are people within the NCR that are interesting and not fully invested in the cause and 9/10 my character sees them as necessary to stop the legion but as a government that is seeking some sort of unification I don't think a militaristic one is the answer.
I don’t recall much evidence for that. If you’re talking about Freeside, they initially were friendly and helpful, and only withdrew aid after they were attacked by the Kings.
Also every society since the dawn of civilization has had taxes. Taxation is necessarily for civilization to function.
They kill people for using their water in Camp Golf. Discrediting the Followers of Apocalypse bc “they are against NCR and want to turn people against them”.
Their army is weak fragile and corrupt as hell. They are so weak they cant even refuse the Courier after he works againts them openly.
I’ve played through the game many times and I don’t recall that happening in Camp Golf. Not saying it doesn’t happen, it’s possible I missed it or am forgetting but that really doesn’t ring a bell. Can you link a video or elaborate in some other way?
Your allegations of their army being weak are first of all not related to my previous inquiry about NCR allegedly treating Mojave residents like garbage. Regardless though, I don’t necessarily think that’s true. They beat the Brotherhood, a highly-trained militaristic group with superior technology, both in their home territory and at HELIOS. The only army you could maybe argue is better is the Legion, but the NCR beat them at the first battle of Hoover Dam and can win again with the Courier’s help.
And saying “muh corruption” is not an argument. Every society has corruption to some extent.
>I’ve played through the game many times and I don’t recall that happening in Camp Golf. Not saying it doesn’t happen, it’s possible I missed it or am forgetting but that really doesn’t ring a bell. Can you link a video or elaborate in some other way?
I believe that's cut content. If I recall correctly, there was an encounter planned where some locals try to tap one of the NCR's pipes to get water, and some troopers open fire on them.
It might have been an interesting statement on the contrast between a government's nominal goals ('we're here to help people') and its mindset centred around property and use of force ('these pipes are Ours and we have to kill any one of Them who messes with them')... but it didn't end up in the final game.
Fair enough. If it’s cut content I don’t know that it’s entirely fair to use that as evidence, but even if it is, what you’re describing is the NCR soldiers punishing people for stealing their stuff. Is it harsh? Sure. Is it morally wrong? Perhaps. Is it reason to completely write off the entire NCR as a civilization? Absolutely not.
We could have a discussion about the NCR perpetuating a property-based culture that values ownership over human life... but, most of the time, critiques of NCR culture get stuck at the level of 'the NCR is a democratic republic; the USA was a democratic republic; therefore, everything bad about the USA is also bad about the NCR, and we should try a new form a government that has never historically led to disaster, like a fascist dictatorship.'
> We could have a discussion about the NCR perpetuating a property-based culture that values ownership over human life...
We certainly could have that discussion, and I would bring up the fact that property based cultures have been the most successful societies in history, and have resulted in the best standards of living, most rapid rates of technological progress, and the highest level of freedom, enlightenment and social progress that humanity has ever seen. Unless you have a viable alternative to propose, it seems like a pretty good model to base your society off.
> but, most of the time, critiques of NCR culture get stuck at the level of 'the NCR is a democratic republic; the USA was a democratic republic; therefore, everything bad about the USA is also bad about the NCR, and we should try a new form a government that has never historically led to disaster, like a fascist dictatorship.'
And that argument is ridiculous. *Every* society has fallen at some point- saying that the USA collapsed and "led to disaster", so therefore we have nothing to learn from them is meaningless nonsense. There's no such thing as a "new" form of government, everything is to some degree based on what previous societies have done. The NCR is looking back to the old USA for inspiration, while at the same time looking forward to the future and learning from their ancestors' mistakes- just as medieval Europe was to the Roman Empire, how the Romans were to the ancient Greeks, or how literally any other human civilization has built upon what their predecessors did.
Im going to search for the video if i recall its a very rare encounter. They could only beat BOS with their numbers their casuality rate is pretty high. The first batle of the dam was a stalemate. They could only win bc they sacrificed their own and Boulder city. There was no victor. The Legions army is simply better. Just dudes wearing football protective gear armed with matchetes and throwing spears defeating elite and well trained soliders.
I dont think so. I think both parties suffert such heavy casualties that they retreated. Josuha had to be punished bc of Legion standards. Like they did not achive a clear cut victory. Neither did the NCR.
The Legion attempted to take the dam from the NCR, and they failed. The NCR successfully held them off. Therefore, the NCR won the battle. This is literally the most unambiguous thing.
>Just dudes wearing football protective gear armed with matchetes and throwing spears defeating elite and well trained soliders.
Did you not notice that the Legion also have elite and well-trained soldiers equipped with guns? People go on and on about how the Legion don't use guns, when... they obviously do use guns, we see them using guns, it's impossible not to notice that they use guns all the damn time.
I believe he says it isn't as welcomed out there but at no point does he basically tell you homosexuals are beaten or even exiled from the army. It's just that they presumably don't want it happening on the war front.
The whole "you have 3 days to get back in our good graces" thing, then sending overpowered hit squads forcing you to use 10 stimoacks per fight. Yeah, fuck that, fuck the NCR, I'll kill and steal from all of them motherfuckers now that I'm level 14, have a riot shotgun, anti materiel rifle, Esther, Annabelle etc ...
I'm no longer just "Courier". I'm "Badass Courier", borderlands style.
I don't hate them, I just don't think they are a good choice for the Mojave. They might not crucify people, but they are still a conquering empire marching into the territory without any concern for the people living there.
I don’t entirely hate the NCR, but I do recognize that they’re making the exact same mistakes as Pre-War America with almost no sense of self awareness.
They represent everything wrong with big government. I could write a whole essay about it. Suffice to say that in a video game where I'm the greatest power available, that means I can be the greatest force for good and that's what I do.
I know they have their own set of problems but I actually like the NCR. As far as new Vegas goes though…Mr.House is best for new Vegas and the Mojave…imo.
I don’t mind at all. The NCR I see as trying to restore order to wasteland by emulating an old system. Yes it comes with the same problems as before, but maybe they can find a way to change that. As far as new Vegas and Mr house go…I think he honestly has the best intentions for new Vegas. He’s kept it running smoothly and kept the strip safe. When he gets control of freeside he arguably makes freeside a lot more safe than it was. As long as he’s the only one in charge of new Vegas I feel like a system like that could work. The NCR patrolling the Mojave (lol) and just focusing on keeping one town safe at a time. Although Mr house and the NCR both let a lot of the towns around the Mojave be destroyed no matter what by the end.
Because they are designed to resemble the modern US govornment in many ways and has many of the same flaws its failings feel more real and therefore more impactful. Guys wanting to steal all the laser weapons in the world or enslave everyone and dress like romans is divorced from our reality. Governments bowing to big businesses, taxing people who dont feel well represented in exchange for that taxation and treating their enlisted men like shit hit much closer to home. That said i think most people not memeing know they are better than the legion, just that many think their self insert character with an army of robots could do a better job.
What a way to name the courier lol
idk it makes sense a lot of people default in an RPG to "what would i do here" Well what i would do if i was a borderline demi god without my own sensible fear of death.
Hah. Fair enough.
Bro... My mind is somewhat blown. A fucking Demigod... That's exactly what the Courier is.
Them and basically every video game protagonist ever. Even fairly "grounded" and supposedly vulnerable protagonists usually end up with a triple digit body count by the end of the game.
“erm actually, my courier goes out and uses big MT technology to create a New Vegas utopia free of the problems of the world with the followers, which is why my ending is best” I swear I kinda hate how Yes-Men mfs will insert their headcanon into arguments about endings. I’m sorry but not once do the ending slides barely hint at that. And it’s kinda stupid to argue it as a reason that the Yes-Men ending is superior when for all we know the courier could immediately die after the slides end or slowly turn into a dictator…
erm actually i use my big MT technology to run for election in the NCR and win by a massive landslide (i bribed the election officials with the proceeds of selling the technology to the brotherhood and stuffed the ballot box), and then proceed to cause yet another collapse of civilization due to my sheer incompetence.
I should start responding to Yes-Men headcanon mfs with my own NCR headcanons or even worse, make up a Legion headcanon about my female courier freeing the slaves and giving women’s rights in the Legion
>or even worse, make up a Legion headcanon about my female courier freeing the slaves and giving women’s rights in the Legion That is literally every pro-Legion idiot to be fair. All of them seem to say "MY COURIER WILL BECOME CAESAR BECAUSE OF THE GOLD COIN AND THEREFORE SLAVERY WILL END." Legit *every* single one of the ones arguing in favour of them say it.
Oh well hello mr. Biden lmfao
The ending slides for the Independent ending are exceptionally unsatisfying and I believe they left it vague because obviously you ruling the Mojave yourself is the best choice for anybody to see out whatever they believe is the best plan for the Wasteland. If they made the Independent ending as if the Courier didn't eat his brush gun 5 seconds after the game concluded it would be hard to choose anything else.
There is an ending slide in OWB that actually hints at this, tho
As a legion fan, I would never actually work towards their goals if I was the actual courier. If people got magically transported to the Mojave, no sane person would work for the Legion. Most would probably be more inclined towards the NCR as they are the ones actually building something.
I would argue that most people would work towards House, had them be dropped in the Courier's spot. Since he offers you the most benefit, being his protegee. Of course, there is also yes-man which has you running the show, but i dont think would be most peoples choice? Just because is alot more work and risk on you.
It makes sense a Demi-god like being, who was able to solve 95% of the NCR’s problems in the Mojave within a month would do a better job. It’s just how the courier is portrayed. If they’re truly able to do all that is shown in the game in so little time, imagine what they could do given 10 years as a leader. In reality, things would likely devolve into a terrible dictatorship, but that’s when thinking about real people. Not one who hunts down deathclaws just to make a breakfast omelette
I disagree they are designed to resemble America during the world wars not our modern America
the capitalism and imperialism from then that the faction exists to critique is still alive and well today
You must not know the differences then
I have a degree in American history lol, I’m plenty aware of the differences that exist, but there’s a lot more similarities
Get em ol girl!
I would honestly take rule by the Golden Horde over a bunch of establishment fucks who will gaslight me to my face. At least the Legion is honest about it.
"because schizo elijah told me to"
Probably because they're the boring faction. They're too functional and they're problems are too mundane and relatable. Compare them to robot army Howard Hughes, Roman tribal slavers, or taking it all for yourself
Yeah this is it for me. If I was actually living in a post apocalyptic nuclear wasteland I would be terrified. Being under NCR jurisdiction would probably provide the closest feeling to safety, even if it’s actually a false sense of security. However this is a video game. Going with the vanilla faction is fun due to the amount of quests, but not my preferred method of beating this game.
the average FNV redditor will go unironically in a lengthy rant on why they'll be doing better to run a country by themselves instead of a whole government
Californians moved to my town and drove up housing prices so locals can't afford to live here anymore, and even apartments were bought up and rented back to us at three times the price. So they're shoot on sight in-game.
as a californian I'm so sorry about people moving out of state and ruining the rest of the country.
Yo that's such a IRL problem that like NO ONE wants to talk about
Fucking based oh my god lmao
Based? Based on what?
Canon events
This
Sounds like the realtors of your town are the greedy bastards. Its not like the Californians are setting the price
I live in Austin and the Californians are usually either A.refugees who can no longer afford standard of living or B. Rich Californians who want to pay less taxes, and increase their profit further by buying real estate or moving their tech companies that ruined San Francisco over here
It's the people who sold out who are the problem. Then they went somewhere cheaper and raised the prices there.
Supply and demand idiot
So if you manage an apartment building that is full with locals paying normal rent, you'd raise it to 3x the price since Californians are able to pay that while current locals wont. How is that not simple greed?
Housing costs would have gone up regardless of where the people came from. Blame local politicians for making your area desirable to move to. You want cheaper housing? Change zoning laws and build more housing.
Found the Californian
"Build more housing" is genuinely the best thing to do though. Whenever housing crises happen, it's normally because politicians subsidize demand but do nothing to increase the supply.
Do you think if people from Alabama moved to your area, the cost of housing would go down?
If a slew of high income Alabamans did, then housing prices would still go up lol. The statement being made is high income earners from states like California moved to lower income areas outside of their state, but were able to offer/pay more for houses than the locals normally could, thus driving the prices of previously affordable housing up.
But who sets these prices up to begin with? It's not as if high income earners would gladly play premium just because they can. It's simply property owners seizing an opportunity to profit.
I wasn’t planning on having a discussion about economics on the new Vegas sub but here we go lol. If you’ve been following the housing market over the last 5ish years, you’ll know it’s not that simple as either of those things. Covid presented the opportunity for remote workers (ie higher income white collar jobs) to move to lower cost of living areas (ie predominantly lower income blue collar areas) while keeping their high income salaries. The first few people to do this didn’t affect housing prices much, but A LOT of people started doing this and there was more demand for houses in these areas. Bidding wars happened driving up prices as people offered more money than the last guy - this is exactly how any auction works. On top of that interest rates were super low, so people were willing to offer more for the house because they’d be paying less in interest so it evened out anyway. So #1 yes, people absolutely were willing to pay a premium, especially if that premium still ends up being wayyy cheaper than if they bought in their home state. #2 - now that demand in this area has increased and people have been paying more for these houses, the average price of recently sold houses has increased significantly. Not sure if you’ve ever sold a house, but a realtor will look at sales over the last 6-12 months to help you decide on a sale price. If your house was valued at $200k last year, but all of your neighbors houses sold for $300k this year, why would you list at $200k? If someone is willing to pay you more, you’d be dumb not to take that. Sure, it is the seller taking the opportunity to seize a profit…but that’s simple economics. If you have something someone wants and is willing to pay for it, why would you screw yourself out of the money? AND on top of that, even if you did list it for $200k, you would be undercutting the market so much that the demand would be absurd and you’d end up with offers for $300k anyway. It sounds crazy, and it is crazy, but that’s the reality of it. The thing is, this now fucks the people who were originally from this town who are still working their lower income blue collar jobs. Their income hasn’t changed much but now housing prices have erupted. They’ve basically been priced out of their own town because out of towners moved in and bought up all the homes that would have been previously available, and increased the prices for any new ones that have come on the market.
“Blame local politicians for making your area desirable to move”. Yes let’s damn those bastards for lower taxes and less crime. Lol
Texas and California have virtually identical crime rates. The tax thing is true though (but then there's the whole privately run power grid thing that pops up every other year)
Then why would you pick Texas to use as a comparison. It has massive cities with terrible crime rates. I was thinking more like Alabama as an example or something. Granted I don’t live in any of these dates I live in Mississippi and yeah the housing market is up a little bit up right now but I don’t think that’s because of the Californians pouring in lol
Sorry I always default to Texas since they seem the most vocal about it
Likely because they've never played FO1 or 2. So they only have a very face value of what the NCR is from what's seen in FNV. Most FO fans only started with FO3. You have to remember several key things. \- What you see in FNV is just the new frontier of the NCR and not what the heartlands look like. \- NCR are one of the only factions in FO to have taxes. So of course the citizens are going to complain about them, just like we do now. Yet, taxes are necessary for a modern society to pay for public utilities. You also have to consider this, they're complaining about taxes. Taxes. Not famine, not malnutrition, infant mortality, raiders, basically anything you'd expect in a post apocalyptic society. \- People don't seem to understand just how well developed the NCR homelands are now. The simple fact they have a military industrial complex, the ability to mass produce weapons and armour for all their troops is something other factions can't compete with. They have railroads and trucks, the Powder Gangers were literally in New Vegas to repair the railroad. Which again, means no other faction can compete with them in terms of moving materials and manpower. They have corporations, actual corporations, with headquarters and franchises, tell me another faction that has that. The NCR are a juggernaut. They're back to early-mid 1900's technology levels at minimum. Where the rest of the wasteland is still scavenging.
You forgot the part where people are taxed yet are still not protected, even though that's the main point. Until later on, the NCR rangers are purposefully set aside in Bajo doing nothing valuable because Oliver is insecure and has enough influence in the government to do that. All of the southern Mojave was either razed by the Legion, besiged by Powder Gangers, about to be attacked by them, or overrun by creatures. Lots of us think the NCR are incompetent because neglecting your last supply route home that much out of political infighting is incompetence. Not just from Oliver, but the government supporting his antics.
As every side your chose on New Vegas has a pretty big disadvantage,they're not that different. When you play the game and explore around you will notice how most of the orders they get make no sense,they're commanded by either greedy or corrupt man and thus such situations happen,such as "no we can't get down the street and shoot 3 bandits"
Because I am stuck in California and seek to contain its expansion. Deeper than the memes, I find them safe, stable, and ultimately boring. They’re a kind of inevitable that feels like it sucks the joy out of the wild Mojave by making it feel more like real life. Sure I’ve done wholesome good boy NCR runs and they felt like just that, the moral good route. But I’ve been thinking. The NCR is less good in itself, and more can be good in spite of itself. We see a lot of examples of their worse nature in New Vegas. Torturing prisoners, willingness to execute local leaders, whole tribes, endemic corruption and incompetence that gets people killed. With the Courier’s help, they can win a moral victory. But what if I didn’t try, and just went with the flow of things? Just went with whatever was asked. Oops, the King said no, time to go see Colonel Moore and help her slaughter the whole gang. That could be a more interesting run.
The NCR isn’t a perfect utopia and therefore it’s literally hell on Earth when compared to their Yesman perfect utopia fanfic they invented and decided was canon to the game. Also the “muh taxes” thing parroted by what I can only assume are literal children. You also have the deranged people who headcanon the NCR as some dystopian society no different to the Legion and genuinely believe it because ????
People have an understanding of politics informed by fairy tales. They're used to stories where the Good King's rule makes the Good Kingdom flourish - and the peasants are all happy and the fountains are full of lemonade - while the Evil Emperor's rule makes the Evil Empire suffer - and the peasants are all dressed in rags and the landscape is grey and pointy. They see the NCR and think 'oh this must be the Good Kingdom =)' but then they hear that the NCR has problems and think 'they tricked me, this is actually the Evil Empire >=('. They can't grasp the concept that a nation might have problems for any reason other than because its leaders are Bad and its people are Bad.
Dude that long paragraph below this one is almost word for word what you described. Calling the NCR slavers and saying their Yes Man courier would solve all Mojave issues.
Jesus sometimes I wonder if these people pay attention to the games they play, or if they even played the game at all and instead downloaded their opinion from a Youtuber.
The muh taxes is a decent argument, when they’re trying to tax people living in outer vegas, like Orion Merino. Imagine living in the same house for over a decade, and the ncr has the audacity to try and tax you. Calling you a squatter if you dont pay up, despite not even being an ncr citizen.
Yeah like the people who join mr house and don't like taxes but forgivers the tax of 50% of traders in the strip.
Noooooo ackshually thats not a tax it’s a business license! Totally different!
Yes Man mfs when I explain to them that headcanon is not actual canon:
Yesman mfs when they finally see the Yesman endslides (they never actually finished the game before):
Show us where Yes Man touched you on this doll.
Simple, old world blues. They keep trying to emulate the old government with all of its benefits and flaws; the same government that led to the apocalypse. Caesar is no different imo. Same principle, other side of the spectrum.
I mean, you can’t really blame democracies for the end of the world in FO. By the time of the Great War the US was a totalitarian state calling itself a democracy. Brutalising its own citizens, annexing Canada against its will, killing Canadian citizens, etc. Then there’s China, still a Communist state, there’s 2 sides to a coin, it wasn’t just the US that dropped the bombs. So I don’t really agree with House’s assumption on the failure of democracies.
It's true we can't fully blame democracy for the cause of the apocalypse. Rather it's greed both in the part of china and the US. Goes to show that regardless of ideology, you can't really suppress the human nature of greed. NCR mirrors and mimics old world government including its benefits and flaws. What's stopping NCR from going through the same route as in pre-war america?
I have genuine dislike for them for many reasons. I have no interest in debating as I've had this debate in this and other subs many times already and it rarely ends well. But for you OP I will state my reasons Many citizens in the Mojave don't want them there The taxes instilled cause Goodsprings to have their worst non-legion ending. If the NCR is given governance of Primm there are statements by NPC's that "Things are going to change" and as a result Primm's slide reflects that it doesn't do nearly as well as it would under a different sheriff and government. They don't ACTUALLY care about the common person. They only care about money as seen in how they REFUSE to go across the literal street to help Primm against Powder Gangers (which are literally the NCR's mess to clean up) The NCR despite it's alleged power won't take out the Powder Gangers at the NCR facility unless the player get's involved and should you side with the Gangers to repell the NCR attack, they NEVER try again as seen in the slide where the Gangers rule that area Speaking of the Powder Gangers, they are proof the NCR still practice slavery. Just in the form of "forced labor as punishment for crimes" Regardless of said crime, all those gangers, even the ones who were only there on PETTY THEFT had hard forced labor as their sentence The NCR either can't or won't take out the Fiends which condemned an entire Vault to doom with the only survivors being saved by the Courier. As House says the NCR only played nice with Freeside and Vegas proper because he forced them too and because the Legion were such a real threat. The NCR don't want to make peace with the BoS or the Khans. In fact there's an NCR Captain that outright get's pissed if you DO broker peace. Rather than focus on hiring locals to help with farming and other labor brought in their own people leaving hundreds if not thousands of Freeside and Westside citizens without a job and with less territory. The NCR displaced Hundreds if not thousands of Mojave citizens because they came in and decided all the Mojave was their's. Especially if you look at the mostly empty houses around outer Vegas. It's all either NCR or Fiend territory now. Hell the one former Enclave dude even says that the NCR have been going into people's homes and forcing them out because they now arbitrarily own the area despite people having lived there for ages. All in all the NCR are nothing but Imperialist slavers who pretend to be the good guys. All they care about is money and power just like any other major corrupted government. Independence for life
turns out building a nation is like chowing down on fancy lad snack cakes
>Many citizens in the Mojave don't want them there I mean, yeah, it's an occupation, but it's hardly the first time in history this has happened. Nothing new for a country to take over new land by force, and if anything the NCR are doing it far more peacefully. >The taxes instilled cause Goodsprings to have their worst non-legion ending. Everyone complains about taxes. That's hardly new, taxes have been complained about since the dawn of civilization. There's 2 scenarios that will happen 1) Goodsprings becomes a ghost-town, see many of the real life examples, and the population moves to another city. 2) Goodsprings thrives in time. >If the NCR is given governance of Primm there are statements by NPC's that "Things are going to change" and as a result Primm's slide reflects that it doesn't do nearly as well as it would under a different sheriff and government. "After Hoover Dam, NCR helps rebuild Primm as a major stopping point on the Long 15. Though Primm's citizens chafe under NCR's taxes, **they benefit greatly from the increased protection and merchant traffic.**" Yep, sounds terrible. Oh no, taxes. >They don't ACTUALLY care about the common person. They only care about money as seen in how they REFUSE to go across the literal street to help Primm against Powder Gangers (which are literally the NCR's mess to clean up) It's almost like they're soldiers, who act under orders and would be punished for going AWOL. The NCR have a formal military, not a band of tribal's. >The NCR despite it's alleged power won't take out the Powder Gangers at the NCR facility unless the player get's involved and should you side with the Gangers to repell the NCR attack, they NEVER try again as seen in the slide where the Gangers rule that area This is due to cut content. There was meant to be an alternate path for the player to directly start the assault with the NCR. You also don't have to side with the Gangers, you can immediately stab the Gangers in the back and alert the NCR. >Speaking of the Powder Gangers, they are proof the NCR still practice slavery. Just in the form of "forced labor as punishment for crimes" Regardless of said crime, all those gangers, even the ones who were only there on PETTY THEFT had hard forced labor as their sentence This is a topic of debate, penal labour is incredibly common even today. It's literally allowed under the 13th Amendment of the US constitution. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, **except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."** >The NCR either can't or won't take out the Fiends which condemned an entire Vault to doom with the only survivors being saved by the Courier. Before the Legion came they were. "Kimball rose to prominence as the Hero of the Mojave when he led a campaign of reprisals against tribals who dared to attack NCR citizens." >As House says the NCR only played nice with Freeside and Vegas proper because he forced them too and because the Legion were such a real threat. Going to need a fact check on that. There's literally an NCR relief mission and the Followers assisting the people of Freeside. **"The NCR is distributing supplies in a building down by the old train station."** >The NCR don't want to make peace with the BoS or the Khans. In fact there's an NCR Captain that outright get's pissed if you DO broker peace. Yeah, so? There's historical grievances with both of them. The Khans have been an enemy of the NCR since before they were the NCR. The NCR also recently had a war with the BoS, and somewhat recently pushed them out of Helios. Of course a patriot will be pissed. Also, out of all 4 endings NCR is only 1 of 2 where you can save the BoS. >Rather than focus on hiring locals to help with farming and other labor brought in their own people leaving hundreds if not thousands of Freeside and Westside citizens without a job and with less territory. They don't have power over the Mojave citizens, they're not NCR citizens yet. The NCR as a government can put up incentives to get people to begin starting industries in the new Mojave territory. >The NCR displaced Hundreds if not thousands of Mojave citizens because they came in and decided all the Mojave was their's. Especially if you look at the mostly empty houses around outer Vegas. It's all either NCR or Fiend territory now. Hell the one former Enclave dude even says that the NCR have been going into people's homes and forcing them out because they now arbitrarily own the area despite people having lived there for ages. This is fair, but you have to remember, it's also an active warzone. This is pretty typical in war to move civilians to a safer location. All in all. The NCR aren't anymore evil than the worlds governments today. They're just more of the same.
All in all tho General Oliver is a douche bag, and should die. He's sabotaging all the rangers out of pettiness, (which rangers are one of the NCRs best argument points) because oh my God they did the horrible act of winning the first war. So he sacrifices thousands of soldiers "for glory" to do things the rangers could easily do. And if you do win you let this guy, and his idiot president best friend stay in office for life. because they would be beloved, for bringing Vegas to the people. NCR doesn't have term restrictions. Kinda like Tandi, she stayed in office until death. If that was who was in office, I wouldn't mind them taking the Mojave. But with current leadership, they need to lose. So your beloved faction can catch it's breath, and continue to exist. First by axing Kimball, and Oliver.
That's real life though. Generals suck sometimes. Lots of Generals are political yes men rather than actual warriors. I was an officer in the Army and I watched Captains sacrifice the wellbeing of their troops without a second thought just for a OER bullet (better rating). What happens when that Captain becomes a general after a career of fucking over soldiers? Colonels I knew did the same shit. I knew a Colonel that forced a unit to deploy to a war zone where they would serve no purpose and do absolutely nothing just so he could say he commanded that specific "exotic" unit in a combat environment on his rating. Hsu, a good leader, getting passed over for promotion by Oliver, a timid yes man, is such a realistic depiction of the modern military in my experience and based on that of so many others. One reason I absolutely love the NCR is that their Army feels so real. The soldiers feel real, the good leaders being absolutely exhausted and passed over for promotion feels real, the confusing orders from the top that don't align with what guys on the ground are seeing feels real, and rangers feel so real with some of their less experienced guys running around with a chip on their shoulder but that battle hardened ones being chill. I love the NCR because I love their troopers. In a way they remind me of ours and I love doing every quality of life enhancing mission that I possibly can for those soldiers.
We did it boys, we found the biggest ncr fan boy in the world
As I stated I will not be debating this as it never ends well I know my positions are valid and any counter that uses the logic of "it's more of the same" or "real countries do this all the time" is not a valid counter argument for I desire for something different and better than what really exists and NV gives me that chance to mold a world to such a better society Enjoy your evening
>The NCR displaced Hundreds if not thousands of Mojave citizens because they came in and decided all the Mojave was their's. Especially if you look at the mostly empty houses around outer Vegas. It's all either NCR or Fiend territory now. Wait, what? Where are you getting that from? Just from Orion Moreno saying the NCR have been trying (and, obviously, failing) to get him to move? I can see them wanting to use his house - he's right over the road from their farms. But why do you assume that every empty house in the greater Vegas area was emptied by the NCR? And, if it was, why didn't they start by evicting people who lived closest to them, instead of the furthest away?
So…. House or Yesman?
Me lol Yesman
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Really good take. Probably one of the more persuasive ones I’ve read. Out of curiosity, why not House?
My issues with House are a more personal one. As in I don't like his personality. He's extremely arrogant. There's an argument to be made that he's earned his arrogance. After all he did ensure Vegas wasn't completely obliterated. But he also had his securitrons for 2 centuries and rather than immediately try and fix the Mojave he stayed in his Ivory Tower and did nothing. It wasn't until the NCR and Legion came to his doors that he got off his ass and took initiative. Basically everything he want's to do, I'd want to do, but I feel his ultimate sin is being lazy and letting things get as bad as they have been. Why allow Westside and Freeside to be so run down? Why not incorporate them into Vegas? Make the Kings a 4th family. Expand Vegas's influence. Additionally what he did to Vault 21 was entirely cruel and didn't need to happen. Again he could have brought them into the fold. Hell I would have had MORE respect for him had he played a gambling game, any of them, and won Or even cheated to win (without the Vault Dweller's knowledge) to gain control of the vault rather than just muscling in and ruining those people's home's. He represents all the wasted potential of his station. Under my leadership for the Mojave, Vegas would expand and thrive. People would be taken care of. The Fiends and other super violent gangs like them would be eradicated. People would truly be able to thrive. I don't need to tax them into oblivion. I'd keep Vegas's tourism going. NCR citizens would still come. Hell, I'd make deals with Happy Trails caravan and the gunrunners to keep buisiness booming. Speaking of Booms, I'd help the Boomers make deals with the Gunrunners too. Again, my issues with House is that I just don't like him as a person and the wasted time and potential angers me. He could and SHOULD have done more
He's literally the libertarian fantasy of being one dude in a castle with all of the guns and food watching everyone else starve.
I thought the reason house didn't do anything until the NCR arrived, was because without the chip he wasn't able to defend properly. So his systems got shot, and until the NCR restored power he was in hibernation, trying to conserve enough to wake up. But when they did restore it, he than was able to awaken safely, and get to work. If he had the chip he would have saved Nevada as a whole. But wasn't able to get it in time. My biggest problem was he kept this nuke destroyer tech, to himself. But it makes some amount of sense, because the government would have than still been instilled at that point, and controlling people.
My issue with house is his knowledge of omertà sex slavery and drug dealing and doing nothing about it. Even under a change in management to Cachino, nothing changes. They all deserve death for employing that psycho Clandin
This just reads like a Yes Man fanfic power trip. “Under my leadership” sounds a bit presumptuous when some of the slides seem that life becomes more violent and anarchic in independent Vegas. I’m not huge NCR fan by any means (nor House), but to call them slavers due to their punishment policies is quite strong considering the Legion has actual slaves. Also House was not active for two centuries, the taxing nature of shooting down nukes put him out of commission for a good long while.
"when some of the slides seem that life becomes more violent and anarchic in independent Vegas." If you do high karma and do all the "good" things but still go Indy the only slide that further says things are violent, at least more than any other ending, is the FoA slide. But that has contradictions with Arcade's slide mentioning how he helps them and minimizes their issues. It contradicts the King's slide when they talk about Freeside's thriving. It contradicts the yes Man slide itself when it mentions how quickly the anarchy turns to calm. It's JUST the FoA that have any sort of negative impact for the Mojave. Arguably the Boomers too, but they also don't make sense in the context of all the other slides. Really their issue is that apparently the Courier fails to get them to open up despite the fact Pearl herself TELLS the Courier they plan to slowly open relations. It's a plothole for sure. Hence under my leadership I'd nurture those relations. What does House do? Ignore them.
All I’m saying is you can’t say that certain factions are inherently bad because you would do better. For all intents and purposes the Courier (you) could be murdered by some Merc days after the end of the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam. I don’t like the NCR but don’t shit on them by saying “well I would do better.”
I am not going to debate this further. As per my initial post, I've had this argument one too many times and it never ends well Just know that you will not change my mind and I don't have the mental fortitude to try and convince you to change yours. Just know all my reasons for hating the NCR are valid and many agree with me. Legion is terrible for all And House isn't my kind of guy to lead
I don’t agree with your reasons but I respect your opinion and your desire not to argue. Have a great night (or day).
You too!
1. House was in a coma because without the platinum chip's software updates his systems kept crashing after he shot down most of the nukes aimed at the Vegas area. That's why he took so long to be able to do anything. By the time he woke up it was a wasteland full of tribals. 2. He actually did gamble with Vault 21 and won. While a reason for filling it in was never given, it does connect to an elevator in the Tops, and was going to be part of how you would assassinate House before that sequence was cut and the vault was filled in on a meta level.
Much like Joshua Graham says, better than Legion, but that's it. I am with Mr. House. He can take care of boring economics, while I can enforce rule of independent city-state in Mojave. Hanlon gives clear insight that NCR needs to pause it's expansion and focus on infrastructure and well-being of it's population. California First. Legion will crumble on it's own.
NCR is basically the pre-war US and haven't learned from the US's mistakes. Which means that the NCR deep down is still the capitalistic, oligarchical, imperialist nation that the US is.
The NCR is hated because they're basically just the modern day Democratic party, institutionalists obsessed with proceduralism, expansion of Empire, and institutional power that benefits the wealthy who fund their re-elections while ignoring the people on the ground who have to live in the systems they build. But they ARE better than the other main faction, a group of rapist frat boys playing at reigniting the flame of a mythological prelapsarian (uncucked) society they hold no actual claim to while destroying everything around them and making everyone miserable because of their psychosexual hangups. God I fucking hate how New Vegas came out more than a decade ago and it's only getting more politically relevant to American society 😭
What's funny is this is exactly how I view the two major parties today. NCR/Democrats aren't great, but they are surely better than the alternative.
Yep, turns out ghoulish technocrats are still better than deranged fascist lunatics 🙃
>the modern day Democratic party, Is the modern day Republican party any better in your eyes? >power that benefits the wealthy Tell me that Republican tax policies aren't aimed at that exact thing.
Did you read the second half of my comment?
Brother failed the reading comprehension skill check
We hate on all factions man
"I don't care who NCR sends, I'm not paying my taxes"
I like the NCR I just wish they didn’t lock you out so quickly. Like I can be an absolute god send for the NCR, getting some of their troops trained up, fixing the water supply for their crops, clearing supply lines etc. but if I Tell house I dealt with one of the families I’m out and they don’t need my help anymore, even though they wanted the Omertas dealt with too…
It’s a pretty excellent bit of characterization for the NCR, as soon as it becomes apparent you MIGHT be working against a goal they actually care about they’re perfectly happy to label you a terrorist or whatever without any benefit of the doubt
It works like that for every other faction.
Because dumb Reddit kids think “taxes bad” is a persuasive argument.
Caesar takes tributes, Mr. House taxes hugely on the Strip, and yet anyone only complains about the NCR taxes when it's the only faction that's using taxes to rebuild infrastructure and society. They're not a perfect government but much better than a Roman facade that will crumble when its leader dies or a self admitted autocrat that will possibly never die with no accountability or checks on power besides himself.
Exactly- anyone who thinks House and the Legion don’t also tax their subjects wasn’t paying attention. I think a lot of the people who say this though are Yes-Man supporters who think they’re gonna create some perfect utopia that will somehow function without any sort of taxation, even though that has never historically happened either in the Fallout universe or the real world.
I don't hate the NCR. They are my favorite NV faction
Uhm, have you seen the Legion hate? People can barely get to talk about liking them as a fictional faction in a roleplaying game.
Sorry but that's BS. Nobody has ever attacked anyone for *just* liking the Legion. People in this subreddit and the other NV subreddit post 10-20 paragraphs about how the Legion are morally correct. I've literally seen them myself.
No it isn't. The majority of people are fans of the NCR or Yes Man/Independent. The majority of posts is about them and shitting on the Legion. I mean how many screenshots of someone sitting on Caesar's throne surrounded by corpses do we need. Rarely someone does one of those posts about them being morally correct, and they always get highly downvoted. Same for people who comment such things in other threads. Which makes sense, because sharing those views in real life is not good. But many who are just enjoying the Legion, making posts about how they could work in the Wasteland, or talk about their lore etc, are also often downvoted and have people drowning out the discussion with the usual comments about inaccurate lore or making redundant they're bad because slavery or mention how they always shoot Legionaries and teabag them. I've seen people accused of being fascists, sexists, and many other ists, because they just wanted to discuss the Legion which they liked in their roleplaying game. Sure there are those idiots who are fascists etc, but many are also not, yet we need to make a disclaimer that we're not when talking about a fictional faction in a game.
Well yeah people shit on the Legion - they rape kids and women, they're fucking disgusting people. Antony is a pedophile who thinks Melody shouldn't be allowed clothes. Maybe if the Legion had at least 1 NPC who wasn't *pure evil* they wouldn't have such a harsh reputation. I'm guessing most of these claims are made **off** the subreddits, because I haven't seen any of these claims. I have however seen DOZENS of pro-Legion threads pop up in constant defence of the Legion. >making posts about how they could work in the Wasteland, Yes, aka promoting the Legion. In the same way posting pro-Enclave nonsense is just lunacy. I don't think anyone *wants* them to occupy the wasteland so there's no point making arguments about it. The Legion have no depth to them. They're worse than Raiders.
>Yes, aka promoting the Legion. In the same way posting pro-Enclave nonsense is just lunacy. I don't think anyone *wants* them to occupy the wasteland so there's no point making arguments about it. The Legion have no depth to them. They're worse than Raiders. Oooor, talking about it from a roleplaying, story making, or world building view. The wasteland is a harsh place often and for some the Legion might sound appealing than what they have. It even is to some according lore. It's fun to discuss what ifs, possible lore etc, it's not "promoting", whatever that's supposed to mean. Well fun when people aren't saying things like you do, which sounds like taking it too serious. Worse than raiders, geez. No one is as bad as raiders, that's kinda their thing.
In the game I dislike them and go yes man. There’s not really a single faction I could see myself being satisfied working with/under if I was actually in that universe. The NCR is probably the most stable. It has its issues but it won’t collapse if one elderly man with a tumor dies. Really a lose lose lose situation
Because there's a subsection of the fanbase that believes ncr is the unironic shining hero good guy faction. So after a while the discourse turned against that idea. For every culture, several different counter cultures that will take issue with the popular sentiment. Since then, it's kind of evened out. So along with the NCR fans, there now is what seems to be an equal sized faction of NCR criticizers that will show up and give their take when the weekly faction discussion arises.
Because I want to do Victoria's companion quest.
The two bad guys are the Legion and the NCR, but the Legion are so comically evil that it doesn't even need saying The NCR, however, represent American imperialism, which is *not* comically evil, it's evil that makes sense. "Overthrow the tinpot dictator, bring democracy" is an ideology that a reasonable person can get behind, and so our brains take it seriously as a threat
*Sniff Sniff* Why do I smell Legion in this comment section
super real, most messages I've received are just legion glazers lmaooo
personally i like the ncr, more than i like the legion at least. i liked how i could join them and choose to make alliances with some of the smaller tribes as opposed to going to war with them, pretty sure you can’t do that with caesar
as Jesus says in the Bible, give to caesar what belongs to caesar, and God what belongs to God. Bible quotes aside, I think there's a lot less freedom with joining caesar because you submit your life to him
yea i never liked the legion anyways, they took the roman aesthetic and military strategies but none of the technological advances or anything like that
It's partly memeing, because the game kind of props them up as the "obvious" and familiar-feeling choice but once you start diving deeper into them you start to see that they're actually quite flawed. That said, in real life, I would rather have them in charge than House or my insane courier with a hackable army of robots.
Hate the legion, you should. But in answer, because it reminds us of the US government. You can find a pretty diverse array of people that have all sorts of reasons to hate on the US government.
I don't hate the ncr and they're a way better choice than an army of gay cosplayers who worship a bald guy with a tumor 💀. The ncr have their flaws but don't we all, it's what makes us human.
I hate The Legion far more than the NCR. I’m more scared of FASCISM, and that is EXACTLY what The Legion is.
They’re boring
I dont care what anyone says Mr House is the best for new vegas even though he is a terrible person.
Most good leaders are, to a certain extent. The best person who was president in modern history (Carter) turned out to be fairly ineffective in the role. As an ex-president, though, he's great.
Something crawled up the collective asses of a bunch of NCR fans recently and all of a sudden it's become trendy to shit on the Independent ending; That's where the resentment comes from, it's a reaction to all of the sudden hate for the Independent ending. I don't get it, myself; I go for the Independent ending *because* I'm an NCR fan. That's the whole point of my flair.
For me the NCR is just the Wasteland United States Empire and I hate the US Empire in Real Life and would love to see it collapse so I can't support Wasteland US Empire that said I don't like the Legion or Mr House either and end up going with Yes Man by default because that's all that left and even then, I'm not a huge fan of Yes Man either.
They are definition of insanity.
It's because they're so totally inept and their rare moments of success happen off screen. Imagine that the courier is removed from the story. The NCR would get absolutely demolished. Their morale is non-existent, they have rampant supply problems, infiltrators are striking with impunity deep within what is supposedly NCR secured territory. And what is the army giving them so much trouble? A literal horde of spear-chucking savages.
They're fashionable to hate, they're a facsimile for the American status quo. If you have been a victim of that status or just imagine yourself to be, it can be enraging to see business as usual persisting in the future. The reason they don't piss me off is that it's not enraging though. I gladly hem them in and side with a particular despot if it means giving them boundaries. But at the end of the day they're a plebiscite doing their best to provide for their citizens: I just don't think that means a grinding attack against the Legion and its eventual remnants, what House provides us singularly useful. They're doing a pretty damn good job relative to everyone else of not being bigoted tribal assholes, and I love 'em for that even when they overrun other identities with options. Being least worst is still a ratchet to better.
Thanks everyone for the feedback! I appreciate more than anything. Most people in the comments have a strong hate for Californians, and as a Californian, I don't blame you at all, anybody that would support such a woke and expensive toxic government would be crazy, I only live here because of my family.
It's an imperialist dictatorship which is unfit to rule the Mojave because of blarring issues that only the courier could fix (their violent methods, their famine and similar). It's not a "stable" decision when the first problem that arises (and the courier is no longer here to fix it) will be solved by the NCR either with genocide or with annexation, and then of course proclaim whatever group attacked them to be "savages" or "terrorist" when they inevitably experience blowback.
They're just the US government.... Does that answer your question?
Taxes my friend, they tried taxing Arroyo after Tandi died.
The amount of NCR apologists in here talking shite about "Yes Man fanboys", devolving criticism to "muh taxes" is the most collective pile of hypocrisy I've seen in awhile. You're baffled why people complain or don't like the NCR? Let me be more descriptive. "Yet, taxes are necessary for a modern society to pay for public utilities. You also have to consider this, they're complaining about taxes. Taxes. Not famine, not malnutrition, infant mortality, raiders, basically anything you'd expect in a post apocalyptic society." u/Jarms48 Funny thing about taxes, is that if you're taking money from people, but not giving them sufficient gains in return, they get pissed. That's how America formed. See this so I don't have to repeat myself. [https://www.reddit.com/r/fnv/comments/1afx54y/comment/kogzekf/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/fnv/comments/1afx54y/comment/kogzekf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) "Likely because they've never played FO1 or 2. So they only have a very face value of what the NCR is from what's seen in FNV. Most FO fans only started with FO3." Also Jarms Applies to me, BUT I happen to have read about the stories in both games, and know that the NCR in NV is a shadow of its former self that would have Tandi rolling in her grave. Nothing good will come from them winning the Mojave and Dam, because it will give the NCR the wrong idea that their aggressive, resource-guzzling expansion is right. How many more lakes need to be dried before something changes? The best thing for the NCR is to be smacked in the face, sent home, and have a change in leadership from the Warhawks, something a Yesman/House Ending has the best shot of doing. I don't need to have played a certain video game to know they're being worse than they were before and need an intervention. "People have an understanding of politics informed by fairy tales." u/OverseerConey Complaining about simplicity of others while your rhetoric of it is simplistic as well. The NCR in the game, led by Warhawks and Oliver-supporters, have prioritized the General's ambition over the well-being of the Mojave and the campaign itself. Their only supply route left to the Dam is overrun with Legion attacks, Powder Gangers, Super Mutants, and creatures; meanwhile, the vast majority of the Rangers have been ordered to Bajo because Oliver wants to keep them from stealing his glory. If my fairy tale-level understanding of politics is enough to know that's malicious incompetence that needs to be dealt with immediately, what is your excuse for ignoring it to make the NCR look better? The Larpers of the other 3 Endings are annoying, but the NCR apologists are easily the worst not only because there's more of them, but they act so righteous about them and their own rhetoric.
I haven't beaten it (40 hours in so far) but I'm going ncr cuz it seems the most likely to survive and i just can't bare to get the bad ending (I will feel horrible if the slavers win) and house and yes man just seem boring. House is just a 200 year old grape (I saved and broke into his little vault thingy to see what was there) and yes man is a robot. So ncr.
Because bringing back the United States government would be hella cringe. Caesar's Legion is also hella cringe though. Good thing this isn't Skyrim and we can take them both on.
They’re rebuilding a form of government that destroyed the world
China destroyed the world. **The USA did not.**
The incompetent way they're fighting the Legion, stretching themselves so thin that everything else is halfassed. Like handing out food to NCR citizens (good) near the strip, causing non-citizens to resent them (stupid). Or sending Alice to Crimson Caravan to get it run more efficiently (good) and she organizes hits on competing companies (evil). The terrible security they had when Kimball comes to make his speech, spies in McCarran, being disjointed enough to hire Fantastic at Helios. That fucking idiot running Camp Golf. Stuff like that, then they try to swoop in and save the day after I (and my benevolent dictator's bots) do most of the heavy lifting. (Zero chance I ever do a Yes Man run.) NCR was really made to look buffoonish in FNV.
>Like handing out food to NCR citizens (good) near the strip, causing non-citizens to resent them (stupid). To be fair, they wanted to hand out food to everyone. Then Pacer and his goons beat their representative half to death, the NCR thought the King did it, the King didn't even know it had happened, and the whole thing nearly fell through. >Or sending Alice to Crimson Caravan to get it run more efficiently (good) and she organizes hits on competing companies (evil). The Crimson Caravan is not a government-run organisation - it's a private business. The NCR didn't send her - the Crimson Caravan's executives sent her.
Oh right right. She's more of a symptom then, like the Brahmin baron guy in Ultra-Luxe who misplaced his son.
Yeah, she's the kind of scummy corporate type you get in any capitalist system. At least, in one of the endings to that quest, you can give the NCR the evidence they need to put through better regulations. Shows there's at least a faction within the government trying to get that sector under control.
Probably in any system that relies on people. I just give the evidence to Cass muahaha.
They try to act morally superior to the Legion when they are almost just as bad. They commited atrocities like the Bitter Springs Massacre where non-combatants were massacred and execute the Misfits via hanging if you don't train them properly. Then there's their incompetence and weakness - Primm for example has about 10 Powder Gangers in it yet the whole NCR camp sits on it's ass whilst the residents lock themself indoors in fear. The Mojave Outpost has like 5 bugs outside of it but they need to Courier to kill them instead of just doing it theirselves. President Kimball's assasination is only ever prevented through direct intervention by the Courier. There is literally nowhere the NCR has been that is doing well - they all need the courier to swoop in and deal with their problems. The Legion seem to be doing fine on their own and House and Yes Man only use the courier as a proxy due to the physical limitiations of their bodies. It's honestly annoying how the game treats them as the 'good' faction in how you can magically use speech to ally the NCR with the Khans and Brotherhood but you can't with House and the Brotherhood because then there would be zero drawbacks with House.
Kimball assassination when you’re on the NCR side: “we are hopeless and can’t even bother to check that there isn’t a bomb dangling off of the helicopter” Kimball assassination when you’re on the Legion side: “Look, that guy in NCR clothing fifty yards away looks suspicious, he’s clearly the assassin!”
Bitter Springs is *one* tiny event against a gang of brutal child murderers vs 87 genocides for the Legion, and New Canaan in which their little lapdogs the White Legs beat children to death in their beds. They are NOT as bad as the Legion. They are flawed and have deep problems but no, they are not morally as bad as the Legion. The Legion rapes children for shits and giggles for fuck's sake.
I always liked them because they looked cool and I hated ceaser
Goddamn taxes
One of the first things you learn about them is they are using prisoners for slave labour and enforce martial law. They pretend to be the civil faction but do a lot of things they say they are fighting against. There are people within the NCR that are interesting and not fully invested in the cause and 9/10 my character sees them as necessary to stop the legion but as a government that is seeking some sort of unification I don't think a militaristic one is the answer.
One word : Taxes . They seem to treat non NCR civilians as human trash. Kinda defeats the point of the NCR saving Vegas citizens.
I don’t recall much evidence for that. If you’re talking about Freeside, they initially were friendly and helpful, and only withdrew aid after they were attacked by the Kings. Also every society since the dawn of civilization has had taxes. Taxation is necessarily for civilization to function.
They kill people for using their water in Camp Golf. Discrediting the Followers of Apocalypse bc “they are against NCR and want to turn people against them”. Their army is weak fragile and corrupt as hell. They are so weak they cant even refuse the Courier after he works againts them openly.
I’ve played through the game many times and I don’t recall that happening in Camp Golf. Not saying it doesn’t happen, it’s possible I missed it or am forgetting but that really doesn’t ring a bell. Can you link a video or elaborate in some other way? Your allegations of their army being weak are first of all not related to my previous inquiry about NCR allegedly treating Mojave residents like garbage. Regardless though, I don’t necessarily think that’s true. They beat the Brotherhood, a highly-trained militaristic group with superior technology, both in their home territory and at HELIOS. The only army you could maybe argue is better is the Legion, but the NCR beat them at the first battle of Hoover Dam and can win again with the Courier’s help. And saying “muh corruption” is not an argument. Every society has corruption to some extent.
>I’ve played through the game many times and I don’t recall that happening in Camp Golf. Not saying it doesn’t happen, it’s possible I missed it or am forgetting but that really doesn’t ring a bell. Can you link a video or elaborate in some other way? I believe that's cut content. If I recall correctly, there was an encounter planned where some locals try to tap one of the NCR's pipes to get water, and some troopers open fire on them. It might have been an interesting statement on the contrast between a government's nominal goals ('we're here to help people') and its mindset centred around property and use of force ('these pipes are Ours and we have to kill any one of Them who messes with them')... but it didn't end up in the final game.
Fair enough. If it’s cut content I don’t know that it’s entirely fair to use that as evidence, but even if it is, what you’re describing is the NCR soldiers punishing people for stealing their stuff. Is it harsh? Sure. Is it morally wrong? Perhaps. Is it reason to completely write off the entire NCR as a civilization? Absolutely not.
We could have a discussion about the NCR perpetuating a property-based culture that values ownership over human life... but, most of the time, critiques of NCR culture get stuck at the level of 'the NCR is a democratic republic; the USA was a democratic republic; therefore, everything bad about the USA is also bad about the NCR, and we should try a new form a government that has never historically led to disaster, like a fascist dictatorship.'
> We could have a discussion about the NCR perpetuating a property-based culture that values ownership over human life... We certainly could have that discussion, and I would bring up the fact that property based cultures have been the most successful societies in history, and have resulted in the best standards of living, most rapid rates of technological progress, and the highest level of freedom, enlightenment and social progress that humanity has ever seen. Unless you have a viable alternative to propose, it seems like a pretty good model to base your society off. > but, most of the time, critiques of NCR culture get stuck at the level of 'the NCR is a democratic republic; the USA was a democratic republic; therefore, everything bad about the USA is also bad about the NCR, and we should try a new form a government that has never historically led to disaster, like a fascist dictatorship.' And that argument is ridiculous. *Every* society has fallen at some point- saying that the USA collapsed and "led to disaster", so therefore we have nothing to learn from them is meaningless nonsense. There's no such thing as a "new" form of government, everything is to some degree based on what previous societies have done. The NCR is looking back to the old USA for inspiration, while at the same time looking forward to the future and learning from their ancestors' mistakes- just as medieval Europe was to the Roman Empire, how the Romans were to the ancient Greeks, or how literally any other human civilization has built upon what their predecessors did.
Im going to search for the video if i recall its a very rare encounter. They could only beat BOS with their numbers their casuality rate is pretty high. The first batle of the dam was a stalemate. They could only win bc they sacrificed their own and Boulder city. There was no victor. The Legions army is simply better. Just dudes wearing football protective gear armed with matchetes and throwing spears defeating elite and well trained soliders.
It wasn’t a stalemate, the NCR won. The legion retreated. Nowhere in the game does anyone claim it’s a stalemate.
I dont think so. I think both parties suffert such heavy casualties that they retreated. Josuha had to be punished bc of Legion standards. Like they did not achive a clear cut victory. Neither did the NCR.
The Legion attempted to take the dam from the NCR, and they failed. The NCR successfully held them off. Therefore, the NCR won the battle. This is literally the most unambiguous thing.
>Just dudes wearing football protective gear armed with matchetes and throwing spears defeating elite and well trained soliders. Did you not notice that the Legion also have elite and well-trained soldiers equipped with guns? People go on and on about how the Legion don't use guns, when... they obviously do use guns, we see them using guns, it's impossible not to notice that they use guns all the damn time.
I exaggerated for comedic effect
The water scene in camp golf is cut content. Cut content is not treated as canon.
Wish they kept it in tho. Then my point is invalid.
They do a lot of the stuff I hate about U.S. foreign and domestic policy imperialism, homophobia, prison labor, etc
They aren't homophobic, you just flirted with a man **on duty**. They don't execute homosexuals like the Legion does.
That’s not what he says tho is it? Much like slavery the NCR just has a lesser of two evils on this issue
I believe he says it isn't as welcomed out there but at no point does he basically tell you homosexuals are beaten or even exiled from the army. It's just that they presumably don't want it happening on the war front.
Don’t ask don’t tell is still homophobic, even the die hard raiders are better on this issue lol
I wouldnt say hate, they're bland as Mojave dirt though. They're the post apocalyptic IRS.
no one wants the old rotton taxtion based war mongering government back
Taxes
> they wanna bring governing powers back
Because they resemble the real world too much so theyre boring
Because they are pretty much just modern California.
The whole "you have 3 days to get back in our good graces" thing, then sending overpowered hit squads forcing you to use 10 stimoacks per fight. Yeah, fuck that, fuck the NCR, I'll kill and steal from all of them motherfuckers now that I'm level 14, have a riot shotgun, anti materiel rifle, Esther, Annabelle etc ... I'm no longer just "Courier". I'm "Badass Courier", borderlands style.
I don't hate them, I just don't think they are a good choice for the Mojave. They might not crucify people, but they are still a conquering empire marching into the territory without any concern for the people living there.
I don’t entirely hate the NCR, but I do recognize that they’re making the exact same mistakes as Pre-War America with almost no sense of self awareness.
Taxes
I like how everyone here is proving the opposite, anyone who criticized the NCR for their major flaws (in the Mojave anyways) is getting downvoted.
Becuase they are imperialists with a god complex that also don't even treat their own trops with respect but as disposable objects.
They represent everything wrong with big government. I could write a whole essay about it. Suffice to say that in a video game where I'm the greatest power available, that means I can be the greatest force for good and that's what I do.
I love the NCR
Taxes, I hate taxes, activate Helios 1 agian
Because I wanna start my own country with blackjack and hookers
taxes bad.
They wanted me to pay taxes
Taxes
I don’t care who the NCR sends, I am not paying taxes!
I know they have their own set of problems but I actually like the NCR. As far as new Vegas goes though…Mr.House is best for new Vegas and the Mojave…imo.
if you don't mind me asking, why is that?
I don’t mind at all. The NCR I see as trying to restore order to wasteland by emulating an old system. Yes it comes with the same problems as before, but maybe they can find a way to change that. As far as new Vegas and Mr house go…I think he honestly has the best intentions for new Vegas. He’s kept it running smoothly and kept the strip safe. When he gets control of freeside he arguably makes freeside a lot more safe than it was. As long as he’s the only one in charge of new Vegas I feel like a system like that could work. The NCR patrolling the Mojave (lol) and just focusing on keeping one town safe at a time. Although Mr house and the NCR both let a lot of the towns around the Mojave be destroyed no matter what by the end.