I went with shin. I was already leaning towards him after the radio incident but the scientists had to go. I didn’t particularly like either of them, but the paladin was too much of a loose cannon.
Yeah. I made the decision based on those scientists primarily lol. Also, Shin *did* grievously injure himself jumping on that mine to save the initiate, I'm a bit befuddled by the fact that isn't being brought up more. Shin might be a stick in the mud, but at least his actions are consistent with his words- it's not just "all talk."
Not to mention, those scientists were specialists in the FEV. It's not like they were rocket scientists or engineers, something that could be repurposed slightly for noble goals. FEV is problematic in pretty much every way it's ever used, so there was very little potential 'good' to be done... and the Hell else were they going to do? They'd already shown ethics were merely an afterthought for them, and the idea they would magically play nice is naive. Rahmani going to bat for them showed she had completely lost her marbles.
I feel bad for having to kill Rahmani, but I took a *great* deal of pleasure in crushing the mad scientists' heads with a fishing hook.
Edit: Um, whoops- apparently you don't *have* to kill Rahmani, I must have just picked the wrong dialog option. Rahmani became hostile when I sided with Shin, so apparently there is a way to *not* kill Rahmani if you're so inclined... which is what I would have done had I known that was an option lol
I was mostly on the paladins side the entire time and then she was being unreasonable about the scientist and was unwilling to budge on her stance. That's not a good sign of any leader if they are incapable of negotiation and compromise. I would have been happy to let the scientist rot in prison even. Yet, Rahmani was insistant that the scientists continue their FEV research "for helping people".
I'm always a little taken aback by Shin jumping on the mine because... a lot of us could probably just. Disarm it. It just seemed a completely unnecessary risk to the BoS leadership for that mission. It was honestly not the best choice.
I absolutely agree about those scientists, though.
But I doubt shin thought you were as able with a mine as you are, he just wanted to do the right thing for his soldiers after seeing one of those he trusted the most to be strong during this die under his command. Imagine being that initiate who lost their squad mate, and had their CO jump on a mine to save their life. If I was them, I would have been able to focus on keeping the CO okay at that moment so i don’t freak out more about the brother i just lost.
I side with shin because as a soldier, it would be my duty to report to the elders. Regardless of how I feel about it. Rahmani has her heart in the right direction, but not entirely in the right place. She’ wants to do the right thing but she’s aiming at the wrong people to do it. She should be with the Responders, at least over there her ideologies would be similar to others and she could at least be challenged in those ideas that aren’t the best, like saving FEV scientists.
I wanted to pick Rahmani and I sided with her on pretty much every other decision, but I had to go with Shin in the end. Only like 2 of the scientists even show the slightest hint of remorse over kidnapping and experimenting on people. They absolutely were too dangerous to be kept alive.
Absolutely, I followed Rahmani all the way through, but that sociopathic wasteland scientist had to die.
I was indifferent on the other one, and wish I could have spared the good one.
I feel like a speech check to convince Shin to spare one, or Rahmani to kill one would have worked
Not sure why I'm so high and mighty, since I've maxed the cannibal skill 🤣
yeaaaaah. Shin is a crank but at least he gets that whatever the fuck those monsters were doing needed to be burned to the root. Rahmani is overall calmer but was way too chill about the whole "barely averted FEV apocalypse" thing
They didn’t even pretend they weren’t going to do the same thing again. I’m all for changing the Brotherhood but YIKES there was no other choice but Shin for me
I think if one thing is for sure: I can go murder them anytime I want if they start... not seeing the forest for the trees again, so I let them live... but I'm watching. Mostly they just seem to sit around and oops there's no more story content so everything's fine.
i first started on paladins side, since shin was a dick from the start, but after her wanting to have the scientists on her side for research and blah blah i couldn’t , i felt like they were part of the problem and didn’t want them causing future harm. so i went w shin in the end he brightened up too lol
I went with Shin and told Paladin to leave. If there was a way to pick which scientists live then I would have saved the main one but alas, they all gotta go.
Completely switched up from my preferences at the start. I started to not like Paladin as much after she smashed the comms, but when she jumped to thinking the worst of blue ridge I was questioning her judgment.
Also she bugged out on that quest and did nothing to help me with the imposter sheepsquatch whilst I got my ass handed to me.
I tend to gravitate to characters like Shin (e.g. Snape and Kylo) so I should’ve known I would cave and become fond of him in the end.
Shin all the way.
Sorry Rahmani, but that guy threw himself on a landmine for me. Sure it wouldn't have even put a dent in my armor and I'd have just walked it off, but it's the thought that counts!
And besides, it's not like his points didn't make sense. Remember the Blood Eagles who took those fancy rocket launchers? Shin will be happy if you killed them. But Rahmani? She hates that. And she'll be happy if you bartered and struck a deal with them. Yes, that's right, Rahmani wants you to barter with psychopaths.
At the start I really really wanted to side with Rahmani, I supported her destroying the communication equipment even, but once the depravity of doctor Blackburns experiment and his associates became clear I felt like I had no choice. The human experimentation, pushing limits with no restraints just for the sake of progress, like the first maxson and the vault dweller with there was only one option, they had to die. It was honestly one of the hardest decisions I’ve made in a fallout game.
It was quite easy to deal out justice to those scientists. They were evil and needed to be put down. As for Rahmani, she wanted to let them go free. She got the boot.
Truth be told I would have installed Valdez because she looks like the only sane person with an ounce of authority in all fort atlas. But, given the options
Shin is your run of the mill isolationist, techno hoarder stick in the mud.
Ramhani is the real danger. Manipulative, with a Messiah complex AND the military might of the brotherhood? No thanks.
So yeah I chose shin, plus we all know that FEV research never brought any good to the wasteland
When? Rahmani never interacts with Valdez and even gets angry at her when she find a way to contact Lost Hills. It’s Shin who says that he heavily relies on Valdez’s advice if you side with him.
I went with the paladin too. Takes more courage to change the system than to walk lock-step in archaic practices that have also proved time and again to fail.
Sure and I would have been right there with you until she suddenly goes insane and wants to use those sociopathic scientists "for good". All she had to say was she was going to imprison them and prevent further research and I would have went with her but then she starts talking all sorts of BS about rehabilitation as though they didn't just torture, experiment on and kill a ton of people.
Isn’t that pretty much the same dilemma the allied forces faced after world war 2? In the end they thought it was better that they had the Nazi Scientists than anyone else and so scooped them up
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
I'm sure there were Nazi scientists that were in useful fields of research. It doesn't make it right but it does make some of them useful, so there's an argument that could be made. Recruiting FEV scientists would be more like saving the Japanese Unit 731 scientists. Pretty much nothing good can come from that kind of research.
By the time I got there I had shot up everything MOTUS had on offer, despite not trusting him farther that I could throw the Whitesprings Bunker. I'd killed hundreds of folks if not thousands just because they worshipped the wrong color of bug. I'm willing and eager for the world to get weirder and if it takes evil to get there, so be it. I figured I could keep an eye on things and put a taloned fist through their faces if they got out of line. Call it a god complex, but baseline humans pretty much are obsolete.
I also remember how at the bar she mentions causing so many issues at home for the BoS they sent her away to WV for trying to start a mutiny or sorts…
She also said something along the lines of how she missed being a lieutenant colonel and being in charge of people…
Seemed like she had a god complex and inability to listen to people
Both of them represented extremes in leadership styles but a guy who follow the books may be an asshole but you know what to expect over someone who is power hungry and follows emotions.
>Seemed like she had a god complex and inability to listen to people
Which is exactly why I sided with her. Was like looking in the mirror, only with fewer "technically not canibalism" induced mutations and 1/3 my IQ. Do I have a god complex? No, its not a complex.
Shin. I just couldn't side with Rahmani in letting the \*FEV\* experimenters be recruited.
But by this stage I'd have gladly put a bullet in both of their heads. Instead I chose the unhinged goblin responses at my knighting ceremony.
Knight Shin. Some lines should never be crossed & the scientists are too great a threat compared to any potential for good. There's a reason protocol & command chains exist. Ideals can be good to strive for but who's responsible if those scientists succeed behind the BoS's back? "I tried to give them a chance" means nothing in the aftermath of a great tragedy when you already knew better.
Same. He showed real character development over the initiate's death. He had me from there on. Paladin was a traitor from the get go. She planned to split from the BoS even before leaving California.
Agreed. While I liked Shin from the beginning, I felt he grew stronger throughout the questline.
I also felt the Appalachian sect of the BOS NEEDED that strong leadership that I thought he could provide, considering the last BOS group in Appalachia was completely wiped out.
I was considering siding with the paladin but the fact she wanted to work with the scientists while all three scientists went from bad to worst I just had to side with shin.
Like, one had barelyany regrets, the other guy had almost no regrets but wanted to go back tk it again and the girl had ZERO REGRETS and then pulls out a cultist knife to kill you.
FEV virus is also a massive mistake.
Shin is a hardass, but that's what you want out of a military leader. He's open to helping outsiders as long as it doesn't compromise the Brotherhood's mission, and is clear and upfront about his mission and what he is after. Despite his coldness towards aspirants, he is willing to jump on a grenade to protect the lives of those under his command. On the other hand, Rahmani is a complete loose cannon who cares more about being seen as progressive than actually being progressive. If you resolve the issue with Foundation in a way Shin doesn't like, he complains about how it will put the Brotherhood in a tight spot, but if you resolve it in a way Rahmani doesn't like, she complains how it will affect her image. Despite knowing that she did not want to contact the West Coast, she sends you on a dangerous, pointless mission to an Enclave base and dramatically sabotages the transmitter you, her, and Shin fought Sodus for. Letting the scientists live is also a completely insane proposition she does simply for optics, as they make it clear that they will continue working with FEV while Shin points out that the Brotherhood doesn't actually have the resources to monitor them. At the end of the day you can confidently say that Shin will lead the Brotherhood to be organized and faithful to their mission while Rahmani just does whatever makes her look progressive in the moment everyone else be damned
EXACTLY! This person is someone who paid attention to the story and quests. I always thought Rahmani wasn't good but since you elaborated more on her and her actions it really makes her seem even worse because WHY did she send you on a dangerous and pointless mission if she never wanted to contact the west coast chapter? And her quest in the Harpers Ferry Tunnel? Eff that. There can be no good in letting the scientists live. It would be like letting Josef Mengele live.
The Enclave, I agree with. But the BoS has legitimately helped the wasteland through a number of crises and so far in the franchise has done more good for the wasteland than harm.
I just wish the brotherhood would've stayed closer to Roger maxon's ideals. I guess that would make them too easy/obvious a choice to side with though.
After listening to all the holotapes with Maxon talking he genuinely had the right idea in trying to sway taggerdy to open up to everyone like with recruiting or help out and work together He had the right idea going on
I never liked the bos. they ain’t different from a raider gang if you ask me. they’ll just act legitimate I mean just look at how the bos handled things in fallout 76 pre waste landers, didn’t care about “civilians” and if they wanted something then they would just threaten people all over a single location
In 76, the BoS only ever threatened groups of survivors twice. The first time was at Thunder Mountain against the Free States, and we don’t know who started shooting first there (and at the end of the day, the BoS allowed the group to walk away unharmed). The second time was with the ecological researcher and during that time frame, that went directly against Paladin Taggerty’s orders for the faction.
my point is they don’t like anything that isn’t them, they wouldn’t work with the responders because they were “civilians” and the overseer said that they all died because the groups didn’t work together. if the bos just stopped thinking like a pre war soldier then who knows what would have happened instead of what we saw when we all played pre wastelanders
This is exactly why I hold that Paladin Rahmani is the best choice for the faction - she’s moving them away from that mindset that killed Taggerty, as opposed to Shin who’s pushing them further into it.
Yet Raiders don't pretend they are good guys either, they know they are depraved and don't act otherwise.
BOS, especially in 4 and 76, acts like they are the noble good guys while strong-arming people into doing what they want (like in 4 when they send you to farms to "Ask" for food for their troops
I finished it last week and that quest turned me over to Shin's side. The scientists barely seemed sorry and Rahmani didn't even seem to care what they were doing to innocent wastelands.
One of the Scientists is also a Fanatic that's likely to use people as guinea pigs
When you choose the kill option and loot her body, you'll find a cultist blade.
I side with Shin. Paladin was getting a little whacky. She lost the plot and the mission. Whether you like the Brotherhood or not (I do) as a former marine, I understand that a mission has been plotted and thought out. Short and long term. Hopefully, anyway. The mission sometimes must be carried out without question to see the benefit. Shin understands this.
I was on board with the Paladin until she destroyed an irreplaceable piece of equipment and cut off thier only options for resupply and reinforcement. While I get the Brotherhood in the long run may not have the people in mind, they're still a better option as protectors than most.
Also we know from later games that the Brotherhood as it is get destroyed so it's all irrelevant. The Brotherhood that replaces them are way more for the people than the one we have in fo76. Sooo long term the Paladin gets her way... ya know assuming that the cannon in fallout isn't appalachia nuking itself to oblivion, again.
Despite the fact I liked Rahmani better, the fact that 2/3 scientists said they would still be experimenting with FEV meant they had to die. If I could kill the two who would keep trying to use it and let the woman who was distraught live, I would have, but it was all or none.
They were going to eventually try that shit again, and too many people had already died because they refused to accept that their virus wasn’t safe for humanity.
I went with Rahmani first but ended up really regretting it. On later characters I generally went with Shin.
Insisting on keeping the scientists alive is one thing, would prefer at least keeping them imprisoned instead of *letting them keep researching* but generally I agree with Shin that they have to go*.* But the real unforgivable thing to me is destroying the transmitter.
Paladin was a total loose canon and wrong about every assumption she made. She took the fate of the App BOS in her hands and didnt really consult anyone, and also tries to spare scientists who almost genocided the entire applachia
I went with the paladin.
The scientists were needed.
In a post apocalyptic scenario, where no more teaching is being done, we need every great mind we can get our hands on.
Also I disliked shin from the very start. I don't know if we could actually kill him, but I let him go. Blinded as he was, he was not evil.
I hated Shinn the whole time but after interviewing the scientist and two were going to try to continue their FEV research I couldn't be a part of Appalachia's Operation Paperclip. Still hurts turning on the Paladin and empowering that worm Shinn.
As soon as I met Rahmini, I got the "Lt col of a guard unit" feeling. Feels they aren't required to be held to any standard and can just run off with their own ideas. I don't trust guard officers either after a few incidents that would have killed/injured people had it not been stopped by AD officers/NCOs. They never admitted they were wrong either. Both were awful choices, and the scribe should have been a choice. Then again I'm a fan of Lyons BoS, which is to bring order but protect those that are just trying to live.
I picked Shin because he was a true Brotherhood through and through. Rahmani was treating it like her personal private army. I can't remember if I killed her or exiled her though... does anyone know how I can find out if I killed Rahmani or let her live but banished from the Brotherhood of Steel?
I believe you might be able to get that answer from Shin, but I sided with him on an alt so I can’t say I’ve checked his post-questline dialogue too heavily.
Shin because Valdez will have more of a prominent role in the BOS. Hopefully more BOS quests down the line. Shin is a dick but if he learns from this experience he could become a better leader.
Rahmani, although I would have installed Valdez if I could, she's the most normal one. The reason why I picked Rahmani, is that she was more of a helping type than Shin, I just want the people of Appalachia to feel safe. Although the fact that we couldn't have just killed the most fucked up of the scientists sucks. Also, the scientists can be useful to the Vault Dwellers' goal of rebuilding America in general.
I went with the Paladin, but I'm not thrilled about it. She had a better vision for Appalachia, but man did those crazy scientists need to be put down.
Shin, for three key reasons.
Firstly, Rahmani is delusional. There is already a large-scale organization dedicated to bringing peace and justice to Appalachia in the form of the Responders, and they are doing so exceptionally well in Appalachia that they're actively sending expeditionary forces to other regions to help *more* people.
Secondly, Rahmani is delusional. The Brotherhood has first-hand experience with how FEV experimentation goes wrong, and less than ten minutes after killing a 20-foot tall monster created by a supposed "perfected" FEV strain, she tries to convince us that the scientists could totally keep working on it and all of a sudden gets into that whole "The Brotherhood should protect technology" shtick after completely ignoring that sentiment multiple times before.
Thirdly, Rahmani is delusional. Rahmani tries to hammer into Shin's head that he needs to "forgive himself" for what happened in the Midwest when all Shin wants to do is to responsibly notify the Elders of what happened and face the consequences of his mistakes. Rahmani just wanted to avoid accountability and was totally okay with giving missile launchers to more settlers to protect them from raider attacks despite THAT EXACT SITUATION going wrong before. Insane behaviour.
I think that Rahmani saying that she needs to "start over somewhere else" after choosing Knight Shin is all the evidence you need. Rahmani wasn't loyal to the Brotherhood's mission, she was trying to change the Brotherhood's mission into her own mission.
I went with Rahmani because she said that the scientists will be under Valdez's supervision. Valdez is the only BoS member that I like and the only sane one imo so I let Shin go away.
I would've attacked him but he took a hit for Hewsen without any hesitation so I didn't think it'd be appropriate.
A few points here. We are in a timeline way before even Fallout 1. Killing the scientists is kind of a moot point because FEV continues to exist and evolve without them. I chose to spare their lives in some maybe futile hope that BoS can recognize and counter future attempts of FEV evolution under their strict watch. Safeguarding or destroying harmful tech is the point of their existence. It's a technology that needed to be studied and put away under lock and key.
The Paladin reminded me of Lyons Rogue BoS and the Knight reminded me of the Outcasts. The Outcasts were generally awful people which is consistent with the BoS. Rahmani is somewhat similar to Lyons in a desire to better humanity and not just lock away or destroy all tech with zealous righteous fury. Lyons was a better strategic leader by far. When Lyons died, they all went back to being zealots again similar to Knight Shin; always dealing in absolutes. That mentality is what lead them to be what they are in the show years later. I sided with Rahmani because of Lyons BoS , at least in my version of the story (because everyone gets their own story), they will be able to detect future FEV experiments in the region and wipe it out. Who is to say nobody else stole from a completely unsecure West Tek lab, the origin of FEV. BoS have no intention of making themselves super soldiers because their discipline and traditions will not allow it. I base that on there are no voluntary BoS super mutants anywhere in the lore.
Tl;Dr: Rahmani. BoS are traditionally tech zealots and they are insufferable. Lyons's Rogue BoS was the cool one and protected people which is what Rahmani was ultimately trying to do.
I went with Rahmani because in my head I can manipulate that rogue sect of the brotherhood into the Enclave. Shin had to die because he would find me out but I can charm Rahmani and get what I want.
i went with paladin, as her ruling was more free, and shins was very militaristic n uncaring for life in general, primarily focusing on the survival of his plans. although she isn’t the brightest, or remotely methodical at all n imo quite an idealist with no realism, shin was just too barbaric and with how the world of 76 was going, his way of ruling wouldn’t last long at all
Of course I picked paladin. Shinn was ready to kill anyone that doesn't want to bow to BoS and give all their belongings to "the greater cause". Raiders in Crater are more sensible than Shinn.
Rahmani for me.
The brotherhood's whole "it's not our responsibility to help people" schtick annoys the hell out of me. Yes, it damned well is. Where did your power armour come from? The people paid taxes for that. You grew out of the US military, you're supposed to defend the US against all enemies, and the decision to monopolise technology is over your damned heads.
On top of that, say whatever you want about Rahmani but she's got about 40 IQ points on Shin, who might be a capable squad leader but no better.
Lastly the scientists... under close supervision their medical knowledge could be helpful. That was Rahmani's argument. I figured if they became a problem, what's the worst that could happen? I'd get a mission to ventilate their brains and problem solved.
I don't think Apalachia would benefit one iota from yet another BoS chapter that refuses to do anything other than horde technology they never had any legal or ethical claim to in the first place. You can't rebuild civilisation without vision, and Shin had none.
Thankyou for coming to my TED talk
I sided with Rahmani as I agreed the scientists could be better used for good just under the right guidance unlike under Blackburn. The only reason modern medicine knows certain things is because of evil groups such as the Japanese Unit 731 (or whatever it's called) from WW2. Same can be said for technology as a whole, plenty of evil people have made wonderful advancements just misused them or used immorally.
I also think that the BoS has proved many a time that their reluctance to change will ultimately be their downfall and refusing to accept other groups aims/ideas, it's the BoS way or no way whether it's right or wrong.
Paladin Ramani. The Brotherhood has so much potential to be a force for good but those like Shin, and the Maxson’s are so keen for it to stay an isolationist, techno-fascist force
Ramani and Lyons all the way
I paperclipped em. I chose the paladins side, as well. Imo it's leaders like the paladin that ensure the future of the BoS being MORE than just some unhinged, gung-ho, oppressive killsquad.
Sided with Rahmani at first, then over time, I started supporting Shin much more. In the end, I killed the scientists, because the hindsight told me that FEV wouldn't do this world any good. If Rahmani wanted to make a change in the Brotherhood, maybe she should've tried to make it to the Elders first, because what she ended up doing is nothing but mutiny.
I find it absolutely mental that this many people actually picked shin. I didn't like sparing the scientists but this went beyond just them: had it been just about the scientists Id have sided with shin in an instant.
But its more than that. Its about deciding the future of the brotherhood. If you side with shin you side with the elders who later make the brotherhood into what you see in the latter fallout games. A faction filled with hypocrites, murderers and racists pretending to be heroes as they steal from others.
If you side with Rahmani you spare people that only deserve the mercy of a quick death, but also you open the door for a separate group that actually fights for the people rather than to pretend they are heroes as they rob you at gunpoint, people who actually fight for the innocent without having an ego that's through the roof.
You ask me that is a very small price to pay and a very easy decision.
For me it was less about the scientists and such, and more about the future of the brotherhood in Appalachia. I knew under Shin it would probably become the most brutal chapter of the brotherhood yet seen. Under Rahmani, cooperation with foundation and others seems much more likely. I believe that mutual cooperation between as many people as possible is how the wastland recovers. Fighting everyone everywhere all the time is the reason why the ncr would have collapsed in interplays version of fallout 3.
This is what the decision truly comes down to in my opinion. The choices people make here seem to be based in two different camps - either that they base their choice solely off the immediate decision put in front of them or they base the decision on everything *except* the scientists. With the first mindset, players normally side with Shin. With the second, players normally side with Rahmani (unless they ignore how Shin’s making all of the same mistakes as Taggerty and/or aren’t considering the BoS’s normal mission to be a problem).
Paladin Rhamani disobeyed orders for moral reasons, and contradicted the evil parts of the brotherhood. Shin not only represents those evil parts, but it's hypocritical of him to disobey orders because she was disobeying orders.
In Fallout New Vegas we discover that the Brotherhood of Steel is pretty staunch about hierarchies. You're only allowed to pass orders to your direct underlings, not to their underlings. Likewise disobeying your immediate commanding officer in favor of what you assume of their commanding officer wants, is a complete dereliction of duty. Shin is both immoral and disobedient.
Edit: not Paladin Valdez, Paladin Rhamani
I went with shinn based on BOS lore and dogma. She committed treason to the brotherhood in the comms room, and she was about to let the scientist live with “their word” they would stop. 2 too many strikes imo.
The way I saw it was
Rahmani - will remain disconnected from the bos practicing her own ideals under the watchful eyes of the psycho 76ers we are.
Or
Shin - will reestablish communication and eventually call for reinforcements to come to Appalachia.
So I picked Rahmani.
Paladin. While I personally don’t like cutting off the Appalachian Brotherhood from the west coast and using the scientists for new research after what they already did, she’s the only one who is in favor of actually using the Brotherhood’s resources to help the wasteland. I can’t stand Brotherhood chapters or endings where they just stay isolationist, take all the technology to their bunkers/bases and do nothing, like what’s their point as a group if all they do is take technology and hide it away from the rest of civilization? Even a Brotherhood like the one from Tactics which trades tech in exchange for recruits makes more sense, since in a twisted way they see themselves as saving the wasteland by pacifying threats and doling out technology to those they deem necessary or worthy.
I went with Rahmani. I never liked or trusted the BOS as it is in the hands of the Maxson line so cutting themselves off to focus on the people of Appalachia seemed like the best thing to do
Rahmani, and it wasn't even a difficult choice. I couldn't stand Shin's stubborn mule mindset about all technology being dangerous and nobody ever being allowed to use it. The quest to get the missile launchers from Foundation was a good one in favor of his argument, but it also proved Rahmani right in having a temperance option to teach the settlers how to defend themselves correctly. Rahmani's mindset seemed wild at times, but at its core it was based on teaching people the proper way to do things so the mistakes of the past wouldn't be repeated. If Shin were in charge of the world, then the mistakes of the past would be repeated when someone without a controlled mindset rediscovered something. There's no point in hoarding tech without reason and only allowing yourselves access to it makes you no better than glorified raiders.
Paladin, she's wise and compassionate and realistically I'd live with her if i was stuck in the fallout universe. Shin would feel like straight up a severe military dictatorship
Rahmani > Shinn
Shinn was a bit problematic already since he was hell bent on just killing anything that's not brotherhood, abandoning people that clearly need our help. I understand that we can't save everyone and that we need to prioritize our people first, but Shinn was unempathetic all around. He worked well as a check and balance to make sure Rahmani wasn't too soft when making decisions, but him in charge alone would've been a nightmare. Plus, my head cannon says my character would fill that "check and balance" role he played once he left.
Although Rahmani isn't deciding things the pure brotherhood way the way Shinn does, Rahmani's decisions are what progress looks like. Taking everything on a case by case basis and trying to help where we can. It's not our inherent duty to save/help others, but it is the honorable thing to do, and I'm all for it.
The decision to let the scientists live may be quite a bit more problematic than Rahmani's other decisions, but it is true that all life is precious especially in this apocalyptic world where human survival is not secured.
If I were able to have made my own decisions, I would've only kept the middle scientist and killed the other two. I mean, the middle scientist was basically pleading that we not judge the other two, but acknowledging that they're scum bags. The young one was a straight up sociopath and the game should've let me kill her on the spot.
I did not like Shin at the start, I didn't really like his vibe and how angry he always was. But after paladin scolded me for my bad impression on foundation and the radio incident, I hated her and gladly killed her at the end with no hesitation. She made me understand why Shin so mad all the time. It's all her fault!!
I wanted to kill Shin from basically the first time interacted with him. But I didn't realise I'd literally only get that one chance at the end, and ended up having him run back to wherever it was he came from.
I ran after him shooting him to hopefully turn him hostile, but no dice 😭
I kept the scientists alive, and let them go back with the Paladin.
I really wanted to choose neither, and work with the raiders, or *someone*, against the BOS. I fucking hate the BOS and put off the questline for this long because I hated the fact that I was forced in to joining them to progress the quest.
76'ers are the true rulers of the wasteland. Everyone else is only allowed to believe they have a stake in running the show. For me it boiled down to which idiot did I want in charge of the BoS and Rahmani was my pick. She is the easier of the 2 to get along with and the less likely to cause issues with the other factions
I went with the paladin, but only cus it's true that the scientists had knowledge that could've been incredible useful, and she said they will be watched /under control, so I didn't see a problem.
Realistically if they still tried to do smth bad you could still kill them lol. But it's worth a try.
Semi new player here on my first play thru lvl 70 now(that’s finally good to say) I’ve been focusing on end game stuff to much I’m going to finish the brotherhood quest line the story sounds very interesting can’t wait to explore probably going with shin tho
Shin is my preferred option. He’s more loyal to the brotherhood, and when I was doing missions with Rahmani she’d just sit there, not shoot, and shout “I’m hit!” Or “taking fire!” Like dude we know that your no loyalty old ass is getting shot at, maybe try shooting back at them? You should’ve seen the look on my face when I figured out you’d have to choose one to side with. Ad Victoriam
The scientist made me realllly lean towards Shin but then i remembered it’s Fallout and in real life the US pardoned everything unit 731 did at the end of ww2 in exchange for info so of course it would make sense for us to spare the insane psychopathic scientist and make them work for us instead
Honestly surprised by the holier than thou attitudes of everyone here.
I was vaguely with Shin when Rahmani smashed the comms, but at the end when he was willing to waste the sacrifice of all the victims for the sake of blindly following dogma, he needed to go.
FEV isn't sentient. It's incapable of being evil. It's just science. Anyone that stopped to actually read all the notes knows that throughout all the horrors, actual significant progress was being made. The goal wasn't weaponisation, even when the scientists *didn't* have oversight.
The goal was essentially to make people immune to radiation without hitting the trigger point that turns them into super mutants.
The methods were obviously unacceptable, but there's no reason to throw away all the data that was obtained after the sacrifice had already been made.
Effectively at that point you're just deciding whether you want to try and help humanity survive the nuclear wasteland, or whether you're just angry and like killing people.
Honestly my only regret is letting Shin escape to cause problems in future. The pragmatist in me says I should have killed him.
The scientists literally said they wanted to continue their experiment After the shitstrom they unleashed and people they killed, you're asking for trouble if you keep them alive
Shin, Rahmani would always let morals get in the way of things which messed things up, the bit that annoyed me was fighting that demon of a sentry bot only for her to destroy the thing I fought through the Enclave facility for. Then with the scientists. I understand what the OG brotherhood of steel was always about and Shin was a far better Knight. I took pleasure in taking out Rahmani and the scientists with a sledgehammer.
Im going against the grain and picked Rahmani, I know the scientists are a heavy weight I'll have to carry with the decision, but I think Rahmani would be better for Appalachia than Shin would be. Shin represents everything I hate about the Brotherhood and we see what his mindset creates as it's just the standard of the Brotherhood.
Rahmani at least tried to build some sort of relationship with the positive factions in the wasteland where Shin just tried to make sure he had the biggest dick to swing
I would’ve picked Shin since Rahmani is borderline sociopathic however Shin is far too by-the-book and would’ve made the same mistakes the previous chapter would’ve made. Seeing how the brotherhood’s ethics were partially responsible for everyone dying out, it’s hard to believe in their cause as a Seventy-Sixer so something needs to change if they’re gonna stay.
I picked ramani just cause her brotherhood (I feel at least) is closer to what elder lions brotherhood was and I'm only really a fan of the brotherhood that helps the people
this quest pissed me off so much. I hated shin as a leader but those scientists needed to die.
seriously why would we keep scientists that experimented on people and were too lazy to even test their creation.
76 has the worst quests out of all the games , there is plenty of cool ideas and places but the narrative cohesion is missing from most quests.
people don't feel real or have real motivations
The scientists outright said they'd do it again because they've deluded themselves into thinking they're helping and being the good guys. In fact the "perfected" version immediately turned the dude into a behemoth so I wasn't okay with everyone else paying the price for their trials and errors. Rahmani wanted to keep them under watch which at first I was willing to do because in my head canon I'd just come back with a crew and pacify the entire area.
That changed when the scientists were so casual about what they did and I had this gut feeling they'd be doing stuff under the radar and I wouldn't find out until they had ruined more lives in the process. They're a lot smarter and it wouldn't be too hard for them to do in some remote base even under the watch of the BoS. That and the fact one of them tried stabbing me I made them face the wall and relieved them of their duties.
I do recognize their smarts though so in my story I have their brains removed and preserved to be put into a robobrain like we do in that other mission should we need them in the future.
I think Shin’s actually the better choice. So I chose Paladin Ramhani because it was the worse choice and I wanted the researchers alive.
Makes things easier for the Enclave later on. If I was actually sided with the BoS I would have gone with Shin.
I was hoping there would be an option to smuggle the scientists out over to Modus so we could use them for “better” research.
^(give me more mutations I have 14)
Rahmani because I'm a "Hearts and Minds" type person.
I've been a fan of the Fallout series since the beginning and I always felt like I got why the BoS do what they do and I understand why. But I think their childish medieval cosplay taints their worldview in a negative way and they end up making their mission way harder than it needs to be. Because it's more than clear in the Wasteland that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
As it stand the Brotherhood has a few thousand members scouring the Wasteland looking for lost tech. But if they took those knights and used it to pacify the Wasteland and setup and support communities then not only would they be able to leverage those communities to go out and find lost tech and *give* it to the Brotherhood (instead of taking it by force) they would also be able to have a population base to recruit more members. Instead of a few thousand people looking for tech they can have TENS of thousands looking for it.
Rahmani, and other leadership in the Brotherhood seems to understand this, or at the very least understand the concept "With great power comes great responsibility". But at the end of the day I think the hardcore Brotherhood of Steel ethos is stupid in a way that's hard to comprehend. I spent most of my adult life in the military and if, after a cataclysm like in the FO universe, my leadership tried to form us into something like the BoS I'd probably laugh in their faces.
theres a reason that through out history almost every conquering force in humanity has wiped out its enemies after winning. bc if you forgive and forget they almost always try to stab you in the back.
Shin was bitching too much and I would rather just have the paladin stay around in my world and rid the world of shitty snotty brats like shin. But honestly the story wasn’t really anything special enough to for me to focus on so I really didn’t focus on the morals and killed shin cus he annoyed me.
Rahmani just because i found the story more interesting that way. I find the brotherhood more cool when they arent just a strict militaristic presence. With shin it felt to me like they were just going to be the same brotherhood they came from whereas with Rahmani it feels like theres opportunity for them to become their own freestanding chapter unique to the rest
Same. Beginning he made sense but in the end he was too dead set on killing them when it was messed up but they truly wanted to help and have resources that can. Paladin was crazy at first but she kinda grew on me and i like that i can flirt with her😝
The Paladin, if Shin wasn't a dick and didn't act like he was best soldier to walk the grounds and act like we had no idea what combat was, even though I had just helped slay the 3 star Scorchbeast Queen before meeting up with Shin, and then he has the audacity to belittle me every conversation, and I felt I was saving his ass a lot!! Then I would have sided with Shin.
I went with the Paladin. The thought of a 'big brother' type of group controlling everything from across the country didn't make sense in a post-apocalyptic world.
It's a bit tough with the limited lines of dialogue and not knowing exactly what will happen based on my choices. I think I would have 'accidentally' broken the radio beyond repair instead of smashing it to bits, and needed to know more about the future of the scientists. Would they be working under the supervision of the brotherhood? Would they be working on the same thing, or could their intelligence be used for something less controversial? Is there anyone alive that could have given each one a complete psychologic evaluation to see if they're stable or not? I mean, Project Paperclip was useful, where Nazi scientists were brought back to the USA after World War II.
I went with Rahmani as well.
One thing people often overlook is, for all that went on at Mariposa, the Brotherhood knows very little about FEV, how it works, and what it does. Those scientists in Appalachia, much as I'd love to put them all against a wall, are too important to lose due to the knowledge they hold. The BoS needs that research into FEV for when they encounter it again, and since it's a large military/government operation, they know they'll run into it again. What if it mutates? What of it gets out and goes airborne? What countermeasures do they have, and can they be made better? Is a treatment or even a vaccine possible? All these questions need to be researched and answered.
I've said it before, for as much as Rhamani is often too soft-hearted, Shin is by no means cut out for command. He's and outstanding soldier, a peerless warrior, and a masterful small unit leader meant to be on the spears tip and thrust at the enemy's heart. Load him for bear with a chosen platoon, and point him at the Crater. The problem will be solved in days. But he would get the Appalachia BoS isolated and destroyed were he in general command.
But to be fair, Rhamani broke faith first. If anything, she should be made to step down as Paladin and be replaced with Valdez. Let Shin train the Initiates for war and Rhamani lead them, but neither can lead the whole chapter without dividing it. Valdez was the only one there other than the PC that kept her head level.
I picked Rahmani because she doesn’t choose the convenient and traditional path but instead wants to create a brotherhood that helps lesser fortunate folks.
Yes, the scientist stuff intentionally made it murky but if you see the forest for the trees, her long term goal is using them for better goals in the future. If she just killed them outright then she is no better than they are. At least this way they can use them as tools to make the world a better place and maybe force some atonement out of them.
Also she chooses discretion at times, she’s calculated in what she does and she doesn’t fly off the handle just because something is out of their traditional wheelhouse. She’s the better leader than Shin probably ever could be because she understands nuance and restraint.
It’s clear which of the two people has been in a leadership position far longer than the other.
Edit: Incidentally, I feel like the scientists at the end was absolutely the “would you push one person onto the tracks to his death to save four others” trolley question, morality. We as gamers tend to be like “Oh just kill them they’re awful!” But their research might save lives in the future and if we (shin, rahmini and ourselves) kill the scientists, then there is still the same number of killers in the world.
At the end, I couldn't stand either one of them. Shin would've been the better choice, but the whining about needing to tell the Elders everything got on my nerves far more than the prospect of having to deal with the scientists again. If we could've killed 2/3 of the scientists, the Paladin is a clear choice 🤷🏻
Shin then I regretted it a few cutscenes later, Paladin Rahmadi was my gut choice but the strict unbending philosophy of Shin seemed more in tune with how I see the Brotherhood; and why I preferred the Minutemen and the Responders.
Unpopular choice but Shin. Mostly because I personally liked the amount of depth to his character compared to the paladin. Most of the time I found myself disagreeing with how the paladin handled majority of the situations. Especially the scientists they were straight nuts, (one even dropped a cultist dagger) so it made more sense to me to kill them.
Funnily enough I actually accidentally killed the paladin (my finger slipped, no really it did and I didnt wanna redo the mission.) but I would’ve let her live if I could do it again and just tell her to leave if possible.
Regardless to me, based on BoS, shin was the better choice and if you actually get to know him he’s just uptight as hell. Knight Connors report basically confirming thats been through so much in his life already before his own death.
Essentially I really just felt more empathy and order with shin than the paladin, he can be an ass at times but I don’t blame him for all he’s been through and he clearly tries to be a better person even outside of BoS. I will give credit where its due with Rhamani, she had some ideals that I personally felt were better than shins sometimes but overall it just lead to him.
Plus Rhamani tried to just remove the entire ideals of BoS and take everyone with her which I immediately did not like lol, not that I’m a hardcore BoS asskisser or anything I still think there needs to be some changes but the way she executed was poor in my opinion. 🤙
I sided with shin but I didn't kill ramahni. The scientists were fucked idk why she was like no don't kill them -_- bitch we're you supplying subjects too? Weirdo
By the time I was helping the brotherhood I already had the reputation of "allies" with the raiders. I hurt the brotherhood at every turn.
"Give the raiders the bogus report. Don't accidentally give them the real one". Oops, I gave them the real one.
I have to side with Shin or the paladin? Which one makes more sense and will do everything they can to make the brotherhood better? Definitely Shin, okay time to side with the paladin.
Something about "helping" the brotherhood with evil intentions was very fun.
It's been so long I can't remember anything about the story. Kinda bummed about that. I would love to replay it but there is no way I'm starting a new character.
I wanted this to be a short comment but… turns out I had a lot to say. Spoiler warning for the whole thing, but I will also tag the bits that have specifics.
For the first half of the quest line, I was 100% aligned with Rahmani. Shin was nothing but an asshole to me (ignoring my advice with the wastelanders and just generally having a bad attitude), plus Valdez, who was my favourite immediately, seemed more friendly with the Paladin. >!I killed the Blood Eagles and gave the Retreat a rocket launcher, and again Shin was just being (as far as I could tell) unnecessarily dickish regarding my solution to the problem. When we finally found the raiders who sold them the weapons, Shin’s approach to them was aggressive and xenophobic when it clearly didn’t need to be, since they acted more like spoilt kids than an actual threat to the brotherhood, and seemed mostly harmless. They were even willing to just back down without a fight once we confronted them, and let me wander in and out of their base like it was nothing later. I felt bad learning about Shin’s PTSD with Connors and the town they destroyed, but honestly it made me want to side with the Paladin even more, in the hopes of giving Shin a positive and kind Brotherhood environment to bring his spirits back up.!<
When it came time to decide whether to >!establish contact with Lost Hills or not, I didn’t even hesitate to help Rahmani destroy the transmitter, because having played Fallout 1, I knew that the last thing Appalachia needed was another branch of that version of the Brotherhood gallivanting around. They’re paranoid fanatics, with clear superiority complexes and no plans for advancing humanity’s survival beyond “no more guns for you!” Shin was clearly far too dependent on their borderline fascist teachings of isolation and aggression, whereas Rahmani was much more open to becoming a helping hand in the Appalachian wasteland. I figured it would be good for my head-canon, considering how militaristic the Capital Brotherhood would eventually become, to have a more liberal Appalachian chapter to their south, softening their hard line stances.!<
My view first started to change during A Knight’s Penance, when I saw first hand that despite his stiffness, Shin is a good guy deep down. >!First of all, he was absolutely right about finding the source of the Super Mutants as soon as possible, it made much more sense in the situation to act quickly than passively defend locations. With a swift enough attack, no further defence would be necessary. In the caves, I really enjoyed the moment where Hewsen suggests taking a photo. I bring my camera everywhere in 76, so I thought it would be fun to snap a pic of her, Norland and Shin by the Uncanny Caverns sign, and was overjoyed when they had dialogue about it (even Shin, who seemed dismissive of the distraction, smiled for the photo), it was very cute. When Norland died, I felt genuinely bad for Shin, who seemed incredibly remorseful and immediately blamed himself, like with the missile launchers and the destroyed town. He then went out of his way to risk his own life to save Hewsen.!< By the end of the mission I had definitely warmed up a lot to Shin, despite his gruffness in dialogue.
Just as I grew to respect Shin more over the second half of the quest line, my respect for Rahmani completely dropped. In Out Of The Blue, >!her “undercover” work is just… nothing. She cracks immediately under pressure, and when we start working with Blue Ridge she is weird and accusatory against them, for flimsy reasons. Aries is clearly being way too up front and honest to be secretly conning us, and even if she had reason to believe he was leading us into a trap, why tf would she say that TO HIM? If he really is leading us into a trap, there is no way he wouldn’t immediately just kill us as soon as you start yapping about how you know what he’s up to. I thought it was purely bad writing at first, but then at the end of the quest, she’s all “oooh I’m sorry Aries for not trusting you, that was wrong and I regret it,” implying that it was all an intentional character beat.!< This severely damaged my view of her as a competent leader, but to be honest, I think I could’ve forgiven it, if not for the final quest.
>!After clearing Vault 96 and apprehending Blackburn, we stupidly bring him to his lab and colleagues for some reason (plot contrivance, fine), and then he turns himself into a big bad super mutant. We kill it, save the day, and then go to confront the scientists he was working with. Based on their exclamations of horror when their boss got turned into the Hulk’s uglier cousin, I was expecting them to be remorseful and beg to work under the supervision of The Brotherhood to keep them in check. Instead, none of them showed any remorse at all. One of them, the bloke, was insisting that they continue working on the FEV formula, despite having just watched as his boss got turned into a comically horrible monster. The little sociopath, Nellie I think, was talking about how she had no regrets at all and even smiled when we were taking about the murders Blackburn committed. Finally, their leader Fahra, was a complete holier-than-thou, “just following orders” wet wipe, insisting that she didn’t want to do it but couldn’t bring herself to stop, and implying that the lives of her and her colleagues were more important than the average wastelander because they were talented scientists.
I thought about it for a long time, talking to both Rahmani and Shin, but I just couldn’t bring myself to let them walk away after killing so many people, and knowing that at least two of them would quickly do it again. When Shin asked who should execute them, I felt it was wrong to make such a huge decision and then let someone else carry it out, so I gunned each one of them down with a single shot to the back of the head. Afterwards, I sat back from my desk and genuinely felt quite intense guilt, because I really didn’t want to just… kill them. I mean they were literally our prisoners, we could’ve just locked them up, but neither Rahmani nor Shin saw that as an option. She was too idealistic and naive, he was too headstrong and guilt ridden.!< So I headed back to Fort Atlas, and spoke to everyone about what had happened. Even flirted with Valdez 😦.
To be honest, after looking up a video of a Rahmani ending… I felt much better siding with Shin. The Paladin was never really the right fit for the Brotherhood, and I hope we see her again in a comic or DLC or something, because I genuinely think she could be a great force for good in Appalachia. Unfortunately, her ending just gave me the same feeling I got when I found out that Nazi scientists helped design Disneyland. It’s not a good look.
i sided with rahmani and i think it was because shin was too rude to me in the beginning and i held it over his head. but next playthrough i will definitely side with him instead, i kind of regret my decision
Rahmani.. was the choice between a leader who was actively considering how the BoS could fit in and play well with the other factions and the civilians in appalachia, or an isolationist determined to help the BoS form the new Reich they are clearly pushing for, because he's a "good soldier who is just following orders".
He probably wasn't a bad person, why I let him live, but from the perspective of a 76er I have more interest in seeing Appalachia improve and advance as a whole, than supporting the brotherhood in its authoritarian dreams.
As for the horrible scientists, Valdez can keep them in line. Of all the BoS personnel Valdez was really the only suitable option to lead them alas that choice was never given.
Shinn. At first, I hated Shinn. But then Rahmani was an asshole to that dude in the gas mask for no reason (I made her apologize to him) and she didn’t help me at all during the Sheepsquatch Imposter fight at all, and then Shinn did the whole grenade jumper thing which made me respect him more. Then it came to Rahmani’s Project Paperclip shit, and I sided with Shinn because those scientists had to go.
I chose the paladin. I regret choosing the paladin after helping a friend do the questline recently. I dislike how reliant she is on her emotions and compassion for people. Those 3 scientists deserved to die because of what they did to people, but she decided they should live due to how she felt about killing people. I agreed with Shin wholeheartedly. Sadly, I didn't pay attention when I did it by myself.
I went with shin. I was already leaning towards him after the radio incident but the scientists had to go. I didn’t particularly like either of them, but the paladin was too much of a loose cannon.
Yeah. I made the decision based on those scientists primarily lol. Also, Shin *did* grievously injure himself jumping on that mine to save the initiate, I'm a bit befuddled by the fact that isn't being brought up more. Shin might be a stick in the mud, but at least his actions are consistent with his words- it's not just "all talk." Not to mention, those scientists were specialists in the FEV. It's not like they were rocket scientists or engineers, something that could be repurposed slightly for noble goals. FEV is problematic in pretty much every way it's ever used, so there was very little potential 'good' to be done... and the Hell else were they going to do? They'd already shown ethics were merely an afterthought for them, and the idea they would magically play nice is naive. Rahmani going to bat for them showed she had completely lost her marbles. I feel bad for having to kill Rahmani, but I took a *great* deal of pleasure in crushing the mad scientists' heads with a fishing hook. Edit: Um, whoops- apparently you don't *have* to kill Rahmani, I must have just picked the wrong dialog option. Rahmani became hostile when I sided with Shin, so apparently there is a way to *not* kill Rahmani if you're so inclined... which is what I would have done had I known that was an option lol
I was mostly on the paladins side the entire time and then she was being unreasonable about the scientist and was unwilling to budge on her stance. That's not a good sign of any leader if they are incapable of negotiation and compromise. I would have been happy to let the scientist rot in prison even. Yet, Rahmani was insistant that the scientists continue their FEV research "for helping people".
Shin actually gives a damn about his subordinates. He just has severe PTSD from fucking up and Rahmani as the bad idea demon to haunt him
I'm always a little taken aback by Shin jumping on the mine because... a lot of us could probably just. Disarm it. It just seemed a completely unnecessary risk to the BoS leadership for that mission. It was honestly not the best choice. I absolutely agree about those scientists, though.
But I doubt shin thought you were as able with a mine as you are, he just wanted to do the right thing for his soldiers after seeing one of those he trusted the most to be strong during this die under his command. Imagine being that initiate who lost their squad mate, and had their CO jump on a mine to save their life. If I was them, I would have been able to focus on keeping the CO okay at that moment so i don’t freak out more about the brother i just lost. I side with shin because as a soldier, it would be my duty to report to the elders. Regardless of how I feel about it. Rahmani has her heart in the right direction, but not entirely in the right place. She’ wants to do the right thing but she’s aiming at the wrong people to do it. She should be with the Responders, at least over there her ideologies would be similar to others and she could at least be challenged in those ideas that aren’t the best, like saving FEV scientists.
Why kill her? She doesn't have to die.
I was able to let her leave without killing her! Felt like the best of both worlds
You don’t have to kill Rahmani though 🤣
Loose cannon? Have you looked at what your fellow 76ers are doing??!?
I wanted to pick Rahmani and I sided with her on pretty much every other decision, but I had to go with Shin in the end. Only like 2 of the scientists even show the slightest hint of remorse over kidnapping and experimenting on people. They absolutely were too dangerous to be kept alive.
Same for me. I was Rahmani all the way and then that final quest! I was like "oh come ooooooon".
Absolutely, I followed Rahmani all the way through, but that sociopathic wasteland scientist had to die. I was indifferent on the other one, and wish I could have spared the good one. I feel like a speech check to convince Shin to spare one, or Rahmani to kill one would have worked Not sure why I'm so high and mighty, since I've maxed the cannibal skill 🤣
This. I did the same.
Nazi scientists gotta go. Like they were straight up monsters.
I went the Nasa approach and took them under BOS control. Hopefully I don't regret the decision later
[удалено]
I went with the flamethrower approach.
I also chose execution by holy fire which seems fitting honestly.
It’s Fallout 76. None of your choices matter
yeaaaaah. Shin is a crank but at least he gets that whatever the fuck those monsters were doing needed to be burned to the root. Rahmani is overall calmer but was way too chill about the whole "barely averted FEV apocalypse" thing
They didn’t even pretend they weren’t going to do the same thing again. I’m all for changing the Brotherhood but YIKES there was no other choice but Shin for me
I think if one thing is for sure: I can go murder them anytime I want if they start... not seeing the forest for the trees again, so I let them live... but I'm watching. Mostly they just seem to sit around and oops there's no more story content so everything's fine.
i first started on paladins side, since shin was a dick from the start, but after her wanting to have the scientists on her side for research and blah blah i couldn’t , i felt like they were part of the problem and didn’t want them causing future harm. so i went w shin in the end he brightened up too lol
people like valdez and ramani will just end up outcasts so I sided with shin and enjoyed cremating those abominable scientists
Exactly why I went with Rahmani. The Brotherhood can burn, and I'm quite abominable myself.
Every choice along the BoS story line was to weaken the core group and create a splinter group that'd actually do something.
I went with Shin and told Paladin to leave. If there was a way to pick which scientists live then I would have saved the main one but alas, they all gotta go. Completely switched up from my preferences at the start. I started to not like Paladin as much after she smashed the comms, but when she jumped to thinking the worst of blue ridge I was questioning her judgment. Also she bugged out on that quest and did nothing to help me with the imposter sheepsquatch whilst I got my ass handed to me. I tend to gravitate to characters like Shin (e.g. Snape and Kylo) so I should’ve known I would cave and become fond of him in the end.
Shin all the way. Sorry Rahmani, but that guy threw himself on a landmine for me. Sure it wouldn't have even put a dent in my armor and I'd have just walked it off, but it's the thought that counts! And besides, it's not like his points didn't make sense. Remember the Blood Eagles who took those fancy rocket launchers? Shin will be happy if you killed them. But Rahmani? She hates that. And she'll be happy if you bartered and struck a deal with them. Yes, that's right, Rahmani wants you to barter with psychopaths.
At the start I really really wanted to side with Rahmani, I supported her destroying the communication equipment even, but once the depravity of doctor Blackburns experiment and his associates became clear I felt like I had no choice. The human experimentation, pushing limits with no restraints just for the sake of progress, like the first maxson and the vault dweller with there was only one option, they had to die. It was honestly one of the hardest decisions I’ve made in a fallout game.
It was quite easy to deal out justice to those scientists. They were evil and needed to be put down. As for Rahmani, she wanted to let them go free. She got the boot.
Truth be told I would have installed Valdez because she looks like the only sane person with an ounce of authority in all fort atlas. But, given the options Shin is your run of the mill isolationist, techno hoarder stick in the mud. Ramhani is the real danger. Manipulative, with a Messiah complex AND the military might of the brotherhood? No thanks. So yeah I chose shin, plus we all know that FEV research never brought any good to the wasteland
Choosing Rahmani *is* choosing Valdez, since Rahmani actually talks to her when making decisions.
When? Rahmani never interacts with Valdez and even gets angry at her when she find a way to contact Lost Hills. It’s Shin who says that he heavily relies on Valdez’s advice if you side with him.
I went with the paladin too. Takes more courage to change the system than to walk lock-step in archaic practices that have also proved time and again to fail.
Sure and I would have been right there with you until she suddenly goes insane and wants to use those sociopathic scientists "for good". All she had to say was she was going to imprison them and prevent further research and I would have went with her but then she starts talking all sorts of BS about rehabilitation as though they didn't just torture, experiment on and kill a ton of people.
Isn’t that pretty much the same dilemma the allied forces faced after world war 2? In the end they thought it was better that they had the Nazi Scientists than anyone else and so scooped them up https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
But I don’t think they were the only ones. Post War everyone was eager to get their hands on Nazi scientists.
“Walk into NASA sometime and yell "Heil Hitler!" WOOP! They all jump straight up!” I miss Jessica Walter
I'm sure there were Nazi scientists that were in useful fields of research. It doesn't make it right but it does make some of them useful, so there's an argument that could be made. Recruiting FEV scientists would be more like saving the Japanese Unit 731 scientists. Pretty much nothing good can come from that kind of research.
Nazi's should never have been spared. Especially the "scientists" and "doctors".
By the time I got there I had shot up everything MOTUS had on offer, despite not trusting him farther that I could throw the Whitesprings Bunker. I'd killed hundreds of folks if not thousands just because they worshipped the wrong color of bug. I'm willing and eager for the world to get weirder and if it takes evil to get there, so be it. I figured I could keep an eye on things and put a taloned fist through their faces if they got out of line. Call it a god complex, but baseline humans pretty much are obsolete.
I also remember how at the bar she mentions causing so many issues at home for the BoS they sent her away to WV for trying to start a mutiny or sorts… She also said something along the lines of how she missed being a lieutenant colonel and being in charge of people… Seemed like she had a god complex and inability to listen to people Both of them represented extremes in leadership styles but a guy who follow the books may be an asshole but you know what to expect over someone who is power hungry and follows emotions.
>Seemed like she had a god complex and inability to listen to people Which is exactly why I sided with her. Was like looking in the mirror, only with fewer "technically not canibalism" induced mutations and 1/3 my IQ. Do I have a god complex? No, its not a complex.
I must not have got all the way through the line yet. I just got to the point after she wrecks the tramsmitter
You still have five quests to go.
Oh apologies for any spoilers, you made it sound like you were done the line. For the record I also destroyed the transmitter without hesitation.
It's no problem.
Finally! I had to scroll down way too long. Wth ppl!?
Shin. I just couldn't side with Rahmani in letting the \*FEV\* experimenters be recruited. But by this stage I'd have gladly put a bullet in both of their heads. Instead I chose the unhinged goblin responses at my knighting ceremony.
Knight Shin. Some lines should never be crossed & the scientists are too great a threat compared to any potential for good. There's a reason protocol & command chains exist. Ideals can be good to strive for but who's responsible if those scientists succeed behind the BoS's back? "I tried to give them a chance" means nothing in the aftermath of a great tragedy when you already knew better.
i like knight shin, so i picked him.
Same. He showed real character development over the initiate's death. He had me from there on. Paladin was a traitor from the get go. She planned to split from the BoS even before leaving California.
Agreed. While I liked Shin from the beginning, I felt he grew stronger throughout the questline. I also felt the Appalachian sect of the BOS NEEDED that strong leadership that I thought he could provide, considering the last BOS group in Appalachia was completely wiped out.
I was considering siding with the paladin but the fact she wanted to work with the scientists while all three scientists went from bad to worst I just had to side with shin. Like, one had barelyany regrets, the other guy had almost no regrets but wanted to go back tk it again and the girl had ZERO REGRETS and then pulls out a cultist knife to kill you. FEV virus is also a massive mistake.
Shin is a hardass, but that's what you want out of a military leader. He's open to helping outsiders as long as it doesn't compromise the Brotherhood's mission, and is clear and upfront about his mission and what he is after. Despite his coldness towards aspirants, he is willing to jump on a grenade to protect the lives of those under his command. On the other hand, Rahmani is a complete loose cannon who cares more about being seen as progressive than actually being progressive. If you resolve the issue with Foundation in a way Shin doesn't like, he complains about how it will put the Brotherhood in a tight spot, but if you resolve it in a way Rahmani doesn't like, she complains how it will affect her image. Despite knowing that she did not want to contact the West Coast, she sends you on a dangerous, pointless mission to an Enclave base and dramatically sabotages the transmitter you, her, and Shin fought Sodus for. Letting the scientists live is also a completely insane proposition she does simply for optics, as they make it clear that they will continue working with FEV while Shin points out that the Brotherhood doesn't actually have the resources to monitor them. At the end of the day you can confidently say that Shin will lead the Brotherhood to be organized and faithful to their mission while Rahmani just does whatever makes her look progressive in the moment everyone else be damned
EXACTLY! This person is someone who paid attention to the story and quests. I always thought Rahmani wasn't good but since you elaborated more on her and her actions it really makes her seem even worse because WHY did she send you on a dangerous and pointless mission if she never wanted to contact the west coast chapter? And her quest in the Harpers Ferry Tunnel? Eff that. There can be no good in letting the scientists live. It would be like letting Josef Mengele live.
Love this. You nailed it. After playing the whole quest line, I don't understand how anyone can actually side with rahmani. Shin is far superior.
Dammit, I regret siding with her; I'll make sure not to if I restart
paladin because members like Shin is what's wrong with the brotherhood. Wastes would be a better place without the Bos and Enclave 😶🌫️
I'd still prefer a dogshit BOS over FEV research.
The Enclave, I agree with. But the BoS has legitimately helped the wasteland through a number of crises and so far in the franchise has done more good for the wasteland than harm.
I just wish the brotherhood would've stayed closer to Roger maxon's ideals. I guess that would make them too easy/obvious a choice to side with though.
After listening to all the holotapes with Maxon talking he genuinely had the right idea in trying to sway taggerdy to open up to everyone like with recruiting or help out and work together He had the right idea going on
It would’ve, though it’s worth noting that 76 elaborated quite a bit on the original Maxson.
What a load of horse patooie. Brotherhood are selfish whackjobs one dictator away from being Caesars Legion.
and that dictator is maxson
I never liked the bos. they ain’t different from a raider gang if you ask me. they’ll just act legitimate I mean just look at how the bos handled things in fallout 76 pre waste landers, didn’t care about “civilians” and if they wanted something then they would just threaten people all over a single location
In 76, the BoS only ever threatened groups of survivors twice. The first time was at Thunder Mountain against the Free States, and we don’t know who started shooting first there (and at the end of the day, the BoS allowed the group to walk away unharmed). The second time was with the ecological researcher and during that time frame, that went directly against Paladin Taggerty’s orders for the faction.
my point is they don’t like anything that isn’t them, they wouldn’t work with the responders because they were “civilians” and the overseer said that they all died because the groups didn’t work together. if the bos just stopped thinking like a pre war soldier then who knows what would have happened instead of what we saw when we all played pre wastelanders
This is exactly why I hold that Paladin Rahmani is the best choice for the faction - she’s moving them away from that mindset that killed Taggerty, as opposed to Shin who’s pushing them further into it.
How can you say they ain't different from a raider gang? I don't remember the BoS having impaled bodies and severed human heads in their bases
Yet Raiders don't pretend they are good guys either, they know they are depraved and don't act otherwise. BOS, especially in 4 and 76, acts like they are the noble good guys while strong-arming people into doing what they want (like in 4 when they send you to farms to "Ask" for food for their troops
Cleaning up after your atrocities doesn't make you better, it's just PR.
People who think BoS and Raiders are the same are the same edgelords who argue “Chaos are the real good guys!” In W40k.
I finished it last week and that quest turned me over to Shin's side. The scientists barely seemed sorry and Rahmani didn't even seem to care what they were doing to innocent wastelands.
One of the Scientists is also a Fanatic that's likely to use people as guinea pigs When you choose the kill option and loot her body, you'll find a cultist blade.
Shin he was right
I side with Shin. Paladin was getting a little whacky. She lost the plot and the mission. Whether you like the Brotherhood or not (I do) as a former marine, I understand that a mission has been plotted and thought out. Short and long term. Hopefully, anyway. The mission sometimes must be carried out without question to see the benefit. Shin understands this. I was on board with the Paladin until she destroyed an irreplaceable piece of equipment and cut off thier only options for resupply and reinforcement. While I get the Brotherhood in the long run may not have the people in mind, they're still a better option as protectors than most. Also we know from later games that the Brotherhood as it is get destroyed so it's all irrelevant. The Brotherhood that replaces them are way more for the people than the one we have in fo76. Sooo long term the Paladin gets her way... ya know assuming that the cannon in fallout isn't appalachia nuking itself to oblivion, again.
Despite the fact I liked Rahmani better, the fact that 2/3 scientists said they would still be experimenting with FEV meant they had to die. If I could kill the two who would keep trying to use it and let the woman who was distraught live, I would have, but it was all or none. They were going to eventually try that shit again, and too many people had already died because they refused to accept that their virus wasn’t safe for humanity.
I went with Rahmani first but ended up really regretting it. On later characters I generally went with Shin. Insisting on keeping the scientists alive is one thing, would prefer at least keeping them imprisoned instead of *letting them keep researching* but generally I agree with Shin that they have to go*.* But the real unforgivable thing to me is destroying the transmitter.
It was easy to destroy the scientist. They had no real remorse, and they murdered a lot of people.
Paladin was a total loose canon and wrong about every assumption she made. She took the fate of the App BOS in her hands and didnt really consult anyone, and also tries to spare scientists who almost genocided the entire applachia
Shin. The wasteland needs a tougher person leading the group. Rahmani is weak and wanted to help a bunch of murderers.
Shin. no contest
I went with the paladin. The scientists were needed. In a post apocalyptic scenario, where no more teaching is being done, we need every great mind we can get our hands on. Also I disliked shin from the very start. I don't know if we could actually kill him, but I let him go. Blinded as he was, he was not evil.
I hated Shinn the whole time but after interviewing the scientist and two were going to try to continue their FEV research I couldn't be a part of Appalachia's Operation Paperclip. Still hurts turning on the Paladin and empowering that worm Shinn.
Shinn. The brotherhood needs order and discipline...plus I was in the national guard and I don't trust guard officers like the Paladin was.
As soon as I met Rahmini, I got the "Lt col of a guard unit" feeling. Feels they aren't required to be held to any standard and can just run off with their own ideas. I don't trust guard officers either after a few incidents that would have killed/injured people had it not been stopped by AD officers/NCOs. They never admitted they were wrong either. Both were awful choices, and the scribe should have been a choice. Then again I'm a fan of Lyons BoS, which is to bring order but protect those that are just trying to live.
I personally feel I should have taken command lol everyone knows Lance Corporals run things anyway
Shin. We gotta have some sort of rules around this fuckin place.
I picked Shin because he was a true Brotherhood through and through. Rahmani was treating it like her personal private army. I can't remember if I killed her or exiled her though... does anyone know how I can find out if I killed Rahmani or let her live but banished from the Brotherhood of Steel?
I believe you might be able to get that answer from Shin, but I sided with him on an alt so I can’t say I’ve checked his post-questline dialogue too heavily.
Shin.
Shin because Valdez will have more of a prominent role in the BOS. Hopefully more BOS quests down the line. Shin is a dick but if he learns from this experience he could become a better leader.
Rahmani, although I would have installed Valdez if I could, she's the most normal one. The reason why I picked Rahmani, is that she was more of a helping type than Shin, I just want the people of Appalachia to feel safe. Although the fact that we couldn't have just killed the most fucked up of the scientists sucks. Also, the scientists can be useful to the Vault Dwellers' goal of rebuilding America in general.
I went with the Paladin, but I'm not thrilled about it. She had a better vision for Appalachia, but man did those crazy scientists need to be put down.
Shin, for three key reasons. Firstly, Rahmani is delusional. There is already a large-scale organization dedicated to bringing peace and justice to Appalachia in the form of the Responders, and they are doing so exceptionally well in Appalachia that they're actively sending expeditionary forces to other regions to help *more* people. Secondly, Rahmani is delusional. The Brotherhood has first-hand experience with how FEV experimentation goes wrong, and less than ten minutes after killing a 20-foot tall monster created by a supposed "perfected" FEV strain, she tries to convince us that the scientists could totally keep working on it and all of a sudden gets into that whole "The Brotherhood should protect technology" shtick after completely ignoring that sentiment multiple times before. Thirdly, Rahmani is delusional. Rahmani tries to hammer into Shin's head that he needs to "forgive himself" for what happened in the Midwest when all Shin wants to do is to responsibly notify the Elders of what happened and face the consequences of his mistakes. Rahmani just wanted to avoid accountability and was totally okay with giving missile launchers to more settlers to protect them from raider attacks despite THAT EXACT SITUATION going wrong before. Insane behaviour. I think that Rahmani saying that she needs to "start over somewhere else" after choosing Knight Shin is all the evidence you need. Rahmani wasn't loyal to the Brotherhood's mission, she was trying to change the Brotherhood's mission into her own mission.
I went with Rahmani because she said that the scientists will be under Valdez's supervision. Valdez is the only BoS member that I like and the only sane one imo so I let Shin go away. I would've attacked him but he took a hit for Hewsen without any hesitation so I didn't think it'd be appropriate.
A few points here. We are in a timeline way before even Fallout 1. Killing the scientists is kind of a moot point because FEV continues to exist and evolve without them. I chose to spare their lives in some maybe futile hope that BoS can recognize and counter future attempts of FEV evolution under their strict watch. Safeguarding or destroying harmful tech is the point of their existence. It's a technology that needed to be studied and put away under lock and key. The Paladin reminded me of Lyons Rogue BoS and the Knight reminded me of the Outcasts. The Outcasts were generally awful people which is consistent with the BoS. Rahmani is somewhat similar to Lyons in a desire to better humanity and not just lock away or destroy all tech with zealous righteous fury. Lyons was a better strategic leader by far. When Lyons died, they all went back to being zealots again similar to Knight Shin; always dealing in absolutes. That mentality is what lead them to be what they are in the show years later. I sided with Rahmani because of Lyons BoS , at least in my version of the story (because everyone gets their own story), they will be able to detect future FEV experiments in the region and wipe it out. Who is to say nobody else stole from a completely unsecure West Tek lab, the origin of FEV. BoS have no intention of making themselves super soldiers because their discipline and traditions will not allow it. I base that on there are no voluntary BoS super mutants anywhere in the lore. Tl;Dr: Rahmani. BoS are traditionally tech zealots and they are insufferable. Lyons's Rogue BoS was the cool one and protected people which is what Rahmani was ultimately trying to do.
Shin. Ramani was a moron and not brotherhood at all
The actual Brotherhood is bad, though.
I went with Rahmani because in my head I can manipulate that rogue sect of the brotherhood into the Enclave. Shin had to die because he would find me out but I can charm Rahmani and get what I want.
i went with paladin, as her ruling was more free, and shins was very militaristic n uncaring for life in general, primarily focusing on the survival of his plans. although she isn’t the brightest, or remotely methodical at all n imo quite an idealist with no realism, shin was just too barbaric and with how the world of 76 was going, his way of ruling wouldn’t last long at all
I actually can't remember it was that long ago! Is there a way to know which side you went with?
Go into Fort Atlas and see which one of them is still there.
Of course I picked paladin. Shinn was ready to kill anyone that doesn't want to bow to BoS and give all their belongings to "the greater cause". Raiders in Crater are more sensible than Shinn.
Rahmani for me. The brotherhood's whole "it's not our responsibility to help people" schtick annoys the hell out of me. Yes, it damned well is. Where did your power armour come from? The people paid taxes for that. You grew out of the US military, you're supposed to defend the US against all enemies, and the decision to monopolise technology is over your damned heads. On top of that, say whatever you want about Rahmani but she's got about 40 IQ points on Shin, who might be a capable squad leader but no better. Lastly the scientists... under close supervision their medical knowledge could be helpful. That was Rahmani's argument. I figured if they became a problem, what's the worst that could happen? I'd get a mission to ventilate their brains and problem solved. I don't think Apalachia would benefit one iota from yet another BoS chapter that refuses to do anything other than horde technology they never had any legal or ethical claim to in the first place. You can't rebuild civilisation without vision, and Shin had none. Thankyou for coming to my TED talk
I sided with Rahmani as I agreed the scientists could be better used for good just under the right guidance unlike under Blackburn. The only reason modern medicine knows certain things is because of evil groups such as the Japanese Unit 731 (or whatever it's called) from WW2. Same can be said for technology as a whole, plenty of evil people have made wonderful advancements just misused them or used immorally. I also think that the BoS has proved many a time that their reluctance to change will ultimately be their downfall and refusing to accept other groups aims/ideas, it's the BoS way or no way whether it's right or wrong.
I wanted the spear…
Paladin Ramani. The Brotherhood has so much potential to be a force for good but those like Shin, and the Maxson’s are so keen for it to stay an isolationist, techno-fascist force Ramani and Lyons all the way
Flair checks out!
I paperclipped em. I chose the paladins side, as well. Imo it's leaders like the paladin that ensure the future of the BoS being MORE than just some unhinged, gung-ho, oppressive killsquad.
Sided with Rahmani at first, then over time, I started supporting Shin much more. In the end, I killed the scientists, because the hindsight told me that FEV wouldn't do this world any good. If Rahmani wanted to make a change in the Brotherhood, maybe she should've tried to make it to the Elders first, because what she ended up doing is nothing but mutiny.
Shin reminds me of my boss at work, so I went with the paladin.
I find it absolutely mental that this many people actually picked shin. I didn't like sparing the scientists but this went beyond just them: had it been just about the scientists Id have sided with shin in an instant. But its more than that. Its about deciding the future of the brotherhood. If you side with shin you side with the elders who later make the brotherhood into what you see in the latter fallout games. A faction filled with hypocrites, murderers and racists pretending to be heroes as they steal from others. If you side with Rahmani you spare people that only deserve the mercy of a quick death, but also you open the door for a separate group that actually fights for the people rather than to pretend they are heroes as they rob you at gunpoint, people who actually fight for the innocent without having an ego that's through the roof. You ask me that is a very small price to pay and a very easy decision.
For me it was less about the scientists and such, and more about the future of the brotherhood in Appalachia. I knew under Shin it would probably become the most brutal chapter of the brotherhood yet seen. Under Rahmani, cooperation with foundation and others seems much more likely. I believe that mutual cooperation between as many people as possible is how the wastland recovers. Fighting everyone everywhere all the time is the reason why the ncr would have collapsed in interplays version of fallout 3.
This is what the decision truly comes down to in my opinion. The choices people make here seem to be based in two different camps - either that they base their choice solely off the immediate decision put in front of them or they base the decision on everything *except* the scientists. With the first mindset, players normally side with Shin. With the second, players normally side with Rahmani (unless they ignore how Shin’s making all of the same mistakes as Taggerty and/or aren’t considering the BoS’s normal mission to be a problem).
Paladin Rhamani disobeyed orders for moral reasons, and contradicted the evil parts of the brotherhood. Shin not only represents those evil parts, but it's hypocritical of him to disobey orders because she was disobeying orders. In Fallout New Vegas we discover that the Brotherhood of Steel is pretty staunch about hierarchies. You're only allowed to pass orders to your direct underlings, not to their underlings. Likewise disobeying your immediate commanding officer in favor of what you assume of their commanding officer wants, is a complete dereliction of duty. Shin is both immoral and disobedient. Edit: not Paladin Valdez, Paladin Rhamani
Paladin Valdez?
I went with shinn based on BOS lore and dogma. She committed treason to the brotherhood in the comms room, and she was about to let the scientist live with “their word” they would stop. 2 too many strikes imo.
The way I saw it was Rahmani - will remain disconnected from the bos practicing her own ideals under the watchful eyes of the psycho 76ers we are. Or Shin - will reestablish communication and eventually call for reinforcements to come to Appalachia. So I picked Rahmani.
Paladin. While I personally don’t like cutting off the Appalachian Brotherhood from the west coast and using the scientists for new research after what they already did, she’s the only one who is in favor of actually using the Brotherhood’s resources to help the wasteland. I can’t stand Brotherhood chapters or endings where they just stay isolationist, take all the technology to their bunkers/bases and do nothing, like what’s their point as a group if all they do is take technology and hide it away from the rest of civilization? Even a Brotherhood like the one from Tactics which trades tech in exchange for recruits makes more sense, since in a twisted way they see themselves as saving the wasteland by pacifying threats and doling out technology to those they deem necessary or worthy.
Rahmani. As big of douches the scientists are, they're better for the long run effort when under strict supervision.
How do you think the U.S. won the moon race? I took the scientists 😎
I went with Rahmani. I never liked or trusted the BOS as it is in the hands of the Maxson line so cutting themselves off to focus on the people of Appalachia seemed like the best thing to do
Rahmani, and it wasn't even a difficult choice. I couldn't stand Shin's stubborn mule mindset about all technology being dangerous and nobody ever being allowed to use it. The quest to get the missile launchers from Foundation was a good one in favor of his argument, but it also proved Rahmani right in having a temperance option to teach the settlers how to defend themselves correctly. Rahmani's mindset seemed wild at times, but at its core it was based on teaching people the proper way to do things so the mistakes of the past wouldn't be repeated. If Shin were in charge of the world, then the mistakes of the past would be repeated when someone without a controlled mindset rediscovered something. There's no point in hoarding tech without reason and only allowing yourselves access to it makes you no better than glorified raiders.
Picked Rahmani, she genuinely wants to help the people of Appalachia. Shin is an elitist asshole.
Paladin, she's wise and compassionate and realistically I'd live with her if i was stuck in the fallout universe. Shin would feel like straight up a severe military dictatorship
Reading all these comments made me wish I went with Shin but he was such an asshole to my player I couldn’t pass up the chance to smoke his ass 😂
Shin was a douchebag.
Rahmani > Shinn Shinn was a bit problematic already since he was hell bent on just killing anything that's not brotherhood, abandoning people that clearly need our help. I understand that we can't save everyone and that we need to prioritize our people first, but Shinn was unempathetic all around. He worked well as a check and balance to make sure Rahmani wasn't too soft when making decisions, but him in charge alone would've been a nightmare. Plus, my head cannon says my character would fill that "check and balance" role he played once he left. Although Rahmani isn't deciding things the pure brotherhood way the way Shinn does, Rahmani's decisions are what progress looks like. Taking everything on a case by case basis and trying to help where we can. It's not our inherent duty to save/help others, but it is the honorable thing to do, and I'm all for it. The decision to let the scientists live may be quite a bit more problematic than Rahmani's other decisions, but it is true that all life is precious especially in this apocalyptic world where human survival is not secured. If I were able to have made my own decisions, I would've only kept the middle scientist and killed the other two. I mean, the middle scientist was basically pleading that we not judge the other two, but acknowledging that they're scum bags. The young one was a straight up sociopath and the game should've let me kill her on the spot.
I’m stuck I can’t seem to move any farther in the brotherhood quest like No idea what to do
Rahmini had me til the last bit. Then I flopped to Shin. Those scientists were shit.
I left the one with the most remorse alive the other 2 had to go so shin
I did not like Shin at the start, I didn't really like his vibe and how angry he always was. But after paladin scolded me for my bad impression on foundation and the radio incident, I hated her and gladly killed her at the end with no hesitation. She made me understand why Shin so mad all the time. It's all her fault!!
I wanted to kill Shin from basically the first time interacted with him. But I didn't realise I'd literally only get that one chance at the end, and ended up having him run back to wherever it was he came from. I ran after him shooting him to hopefully turn him hostile, but no dice 😭 I kept the scientists alive, and let them go back with the Paladin. I really wanted to choose neither, and work with the raiders, or *someone*, against the BOS. I fucking hate the BOS and put off the questline for this long because I hated the fact that I was forced in to joining them to progress the quest.
I mean shin is an asshole but he is more authentic brotherhood than Rahmani by a long shot.
76'ers are the true rulers of the wasteland. Everyone else is only allowed to believe they have a stake in running the show. For me it boiled down to which idiot did I want in charge of the BoS and Rahmani was my pick. She is the easier of the 2 to get along with and the less likely to cause issues with the other factions
Shin. Other before explained the reasons, although until the last moment I was with the Paladin.
Rahmani. Shinn is kind of a dick.
I exiled shin. He was too much of a bootlicker for me.
I went with the paladin, but only cus it's true that the scientists had knowledge that could've been incredible useful, and she said they will be watched /under control, so I didn't see a problem. Realistically if they still tried to do smth bad you could still kill them lol. But it's worth a try.
Semi new player here on my first play thru lvl 70 now(that’s finally good to say) I’ve been focusing on end game stuff to much I’m going to finish the brotherhood quest line the story sounds very interesting can’t wait to explore probably going with shin tho
Shin is my preferred option. He’s more loyal to the brotherhood, and when I was doing missions with Rahmani she’d just sit there, not shoot, and shout “I’m hit!” Or “taking fire!” Like dude we know that your no loyalty old ass is getting shot at, maybe try shooting back at them? You should’ve seen the look on my face when I figured out you’d have to choose one to side with. Ad Victoriam
Rahmani is a delusional moron. Shin isn't perfect, but oh boy do I dislike Rahmani.
The scientist made me realllly lean towards Shin but then i remembered it’s Fallout and in real life the US pardoned everything unit 731 did at the end of ww2 in exchange for info so of course it would make sense for us to spare the insane psychopathic scientist and make them work for us instead
I picked the Paladin and I wish I’d picked Shin
I picked Rahmani because Shin was a cunt every time you talk to him. I didn’t kill him though
Honestly surprised by the holier than thou attitudes of everyone here. I was vaguely with Shin when Rahmani smashed the comms, but at the end when he was willing to waste the sacrifice of all the victims for the sake of blindly following dogma, he needed to go. FEV isn't sentient. It's incapable of being evil. It's just science. Anyone that stopped to actually read all the notes knows that throughout all the horrors, actual significant progress was being made. The goal wasn't weaponisation, even when the scientists *didn't* have oversight. The goal was essentially to make people immune to radiation without hitting the trigger point that turns them into super mutants. The methods were obviously unacceptable, but there's no reason to throw away all the data that was obtained after the sacrifice had already been made. Effectively at that point you're just deciding whether you want to try and help humanity survive the nuclear wasteland, or whether you're just angry and like killing people. Honestly my only regret is letting Shin escape to cause problems in future. The pragmatist in me says I should have killed him.
The scientists literally said they wanted to continue their experiment After the shitstrom they unleashed and people they killed, you're asking for trouble if you keep them alive
Shin, Rahmani would always let morals get in the way of things which messed things up, the bit that annoyed me was fighting that demon of a sentry bot only for her to destroy the thing I fought through the Enclave facility for. Then with the scientists. I understand what the OG brotherhood of steel was always about and Shin was a far better Knight. I took pleasure in taking out Rahmani and the scientists with a sledgehammer.
Im going against the grain and picked Rahmani, I know the scientists are a heavy weight I'll have to carry with the decision, but I think Rahmani would be better for Appalachia than Shin would be. Shin represents everything I hate about the Brotherhood and we see what his mindset creates as it's just the standard of the Brotherhood. Rahmani at least tried to build some sort of relationship with the positive factions in the wasteland where Shin just tried to make sure he had the biggest dick to swing
I would’ve picked Shin since Rahmani is borderline sociopathic however Shin is far too by-the-book and would’ve made the same mistakes the previous chapter would’ve made. Seeing how the brotherhood’s ethics were partially responsible for everyone dying out, it’s hard to believe in their cause as a Seventy-Sixer so something needs to change if they’re gonna stay.
I picked ramani just cause her brotherhood (I feel at least) is closer to what elder lions brotherhood was and I'm only really a fan of the brotherhood that helps the people
this quest pissed me off so much. I hated shin as a leader but those scientists needed to die. seriously why would we keep scientists that experimented on people and were too lazy to even test their creation. 76 has the worst quests out of all the games , there is plenty of cool ideas and places but the narrative cohesion is missing from most quests. people don't feel real or have real motivations
Didn't like Shin at the start, liked him a little in the end Not enough to kill Rahmani though
The scientists outright said they'd do it again because they've deluded themselves into thinking they're helping and being the good guys. In fact the "perfected" version immediately turned the dude into a behemoth so I wasn't okay with everyone else paying the price for their trials and errors. Rahmani wanted to keep them under watch which at first I was willing to do because in my head canon I'd just come back with a crew and pacify the entire area. That changed when the scientists were so casual about what they did and I had this gut feeling they'd be doing stuff under the radar and I wouldn't find out until they had ruined more lives in the process. They're a lot smarter and it wouldn't be too hard for them to do in some remote base even under the watch of the BoS. That and the fact one of them tried stabbing me I made them face the wall and relieved them of their duties. I do recognize their smarts though so in my story I have their brains removed and preserved to be put into a robobrain like we do in that other mission should we need them in the future.
I'm siding with Paladin Ramani, but I haven't finished the questline yet. The only one I've completed was the Overseer's missions.
I think Shin’s actually the better choice. So I chose Paladin Ramhani because it was the worse choice and I wanted the researchers alive. Makes things easier for the Enclave later on. If I was actually sided with the BoS I would have gone with Shin. I was hoping there would be an option to smuggle the scientists out over to Modus so we could use them for “better” research. ^(give me more mutations I have 14)
Rahmani because I'm a "Hearts and Minds" type person. I've been a fan of the Fallout series since the beginning and I always felt like I got why the BoS do what they do and I understand why. But I think their childish medieval cosplay taints their worldview in a negative way and they end up making their mission way harder than it needs to be. Because it's more than clear in the Wasteland that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. As it stand the Brotherhood has a few thousand members scouring the Wasteland looking for lost tech. But if they took those knights and used it to pacify the Wasteland and setup and support communities then not only would they be able to leverage those communities to go out and find lost tech and *give* it to the Brotherhood (instead of taking it by force) they would also be able to have a population base to recruit more members. Instead of a few thousand people looking for tech they can have TENS of thousands looking for it. Rahmani, and other leadership in the Brotherhood seems to understand this, or at the very least understand the concept "With great power comes great responsibility". But at the end of the day I think the hardcore Brotherhood of Steel ethos is stupid in a way that's hard to comprehend. I spent most of my adult life in the military and if, after a cataclysm like in the FO universe, my leadership tried to form us into something like the BoS I'd probably laugh in their faces.
Rahmani was delusional so I had to separate her soul and mortal coil.
I went the American route. I kept the monster nazi scientists alive very similar to operation paper clip Now they need to make me weapons...
I like to watch the world burn, I chose Rahmani. Let the scientists experiment on whoever they want, as long as it's not me, I don't care.
theres a reason that through out history almost every conquering force in humanity has wiped out its enemies after winning. bc if you forgive and forget they almost always try to stab you in the back.
Killed tf out of Shin. He was annoying.
Undercover enclve. Chaos = rahmani
Shin was bitching too much and I would rather just have the paladin stay around in my world and rid the world of shitty snotty brats like shin. But honestly the story wasn’t really anything special enough to for me to focus on so I really didn’t focus on the morals and killed shin cus he annoyed me.
I didn't feel good about it, but I had to pick what my mad scientist would have picked.
Rahmani just because i found the story more interesting that way. I find the brotherhood more cool when they arent just a strict militaristic presence. With shin it felt to me like they were just going to be the same brotherhood they came from whereas with Rahmani it feels like theres opportunity for them to become their own freestanding chapter unique to the rest
Same. Beginning he made sense but in the end he was too dead set on killing them when it was messed up but they truly wanted to help and have resources that can. Paladin was crazy at first but she kinda grew on me and i like that i can flirt with her😝
The Paladin, if Shin wasn't a dick and didn't act like he was best soldier to walk the grounds and act like we had no idea what combat was, even though I had just helped slay the 3 star Scorchbeast Queen before meeting up with Shin, and then he has the audacity to belittle me every conversation, and I felt I was saving his ass a lot!! Then I would have sided with Shin.
Shin all the way
Rahmani because Shin is a dick. My only regret is letting him walk back to Lost Hills. I should have given him a ride on a Missle or 50.
Rhamani is batshit insane, shinn is an idiot but he's definitely more in the right
I went with the Paladin. The thought of a 'big brother' type of group controlling everything from across the country didn't make sense in a post-apocalyptic world. It's a bit tough with the limited lines of dialogue and not knowing exactly what will happen based on my choices. I think I would have 'accidentally' broken the radio beyond repair instead of smashing it to bits, and needed to know more about the future of the scientists. Would they be working under the supervision of the brotherhood? Would they be working on the same thing, or could their intelligence be used for something less controversial? Is there anyone alive that could have given each one a complete psychologic evaluation to see if they're stable or not? I mean, Project Paperclip was useful, where Nazi scientists were brought back to the USA after World War II.
I went with Rahmani as well. One thing people often overlook is, for all that went on at Mariposa, the Brotherhood knows very little about FEV, how it works, and what it does. Those scientists in Appalachia, much as I'd love to put them all against a wall, are too important to lose due to the knowledge they hold. The BoS needs that research into FEV for when they encounter it again, and since it's a large military/government operation, they know they'll run into it again. What if it mutates? What of it gets out and goes airborne? What countermeasures do they have, and can they be made better? Is a treatment or even a vaccine possible? All these questions need to be researched and answered. I've said it before, for as much as Rhamani is often too soft-hearted, Shin is by no means cut out for command. He's and outstanding soldier, a peerless warrior, and a masterful small unit leader meant to be on the spears tip and thrust at the enemy's heart. Load him for bear with a chosen platoon, and point him at the Crater. The problem will be solved in days. But he would get the Appalachia BoS isolated and destroyed were he in general command. But to be fair, Rhamani broke faith first. If anything, she should be made to step down as Paladin and be replaced with Valdez. Let Shin train the Initiates for war and Rhamani lead them, but neither can lead the whole chapter without dividing it. Valdez was the only one there other than the PC that kept her head level.
I went with Rahmani. I'm an idealist and will always support the greater ideal over immediate distaste.
I picked Rahmani because she doesn’t choose the convenient and traditional path but instead wants to create a brotherhood that helps lesser fortunate folks. Yes, the scientist stuff intentionally made it murky but if you see the forest for the trees, her long term goal is using them for better goals in the future. If she just killed them outright then she is no better than they are. At least this way they can use them as tools to make the world a better place and maybe force some atonement out of them. Also she chooses discretion at times, she’s calculated in what she does and she doesn’t fly off the handle just because something is out of their traditional wheelhouse. She’s the better leader than Shin probably ever could be because she understands nuance and restraint. It’s clear which of the two people has been in a leadership position far longer than the other. Edit: Incidentally, I feel like the scientists at the end was absolutely the “would you push one person onto the tracks to his death to save four others” trolley question, morality. We as gamers tend to be like “Oh just kill them they’re awful!” But their research might save lives in the future and if we (shin, rahmini and ourselves) kill the scientists, then there is still the same number of killers in the world.
Went with paladin, felt like it was the better option of two bad people really 😂
I chose shinn purely off of the dialogue they both have after u choose to kill them
At the end, I couldn't stand either one of them. Shin would've been the better choice, but the whining about needing to tell the Elders everything got on my nerves far more than the prospect of having to deal with the scientists again. If we could've killed 2/3 of the scientists, the Paladin is a clear choice 🤷🏻
Shin then I regretted it a few cutscenes later, Paladin Rahmadi was my gut choice but the strict unbending philosophy of Shin seemed more in tune with how I see the Brotherhood; and why I preferred the Minutemen and the Responders.
Shin was doing things her way and I respected that.
Unpopular choice but Shin. Mostly because I personally liked the amount of depth to his character compared to the paladin. Most of the time I found myself disagreeing with how the paladin handled majority of the situations. Especially the scientists they were straight nuts, (one even dropped a cultist dagger) so it made more sense to me to kill them. Funnily enough I actually accidentally killed the paladin (my finger slipped, no really it did and I didnt wanna redo the mission.) but I would’ve let her live if I could do it again and just tell her to leave if possible. Regardless to me, based on BoS, shin was the better choice and if you actually get to know him he’s just uptight as hell. Knight Connors report basically confirming thats been through so much in his life already before his own death. Essentially I really just felt more empathy and order with shin than the paladin, he can be an ass at times but I don’t blame him for all he’s been through and he clearly tries to be a better person even outside of BoS. I will give credit where its due with Rhamani, she had some ideals that I personally felt were better than shins sometimes but overall it just lead to him. Plus Rhamani tried to just remove the entire ideals of BoS and take everyone with her which I immediately did not like lol, not that I’m a hardcore BoS asskisser or anything I still think there needs to be some changes but the way she executed was poor in my opinion. 🤙
I sided with shin but I didn't kill ramahni. The scientists were fucked idk why she was like no don't kill them -_- bitch we're you supplying subjects too? Weirdo
By the time I was helping the brotherhood I already had the reputation of "allies" with the raiders. I hurt the brotherhood at every turn. "Give the raiders the bogus report. Don't accidentally give them the real one". Oops, I gave them the real one. I have to side with Shin or the paladin? Which one makes more sense and will do everything they can to make the brotherhood better? Definitely Shin, okay time to side with the paladin. Something about "helping" the brotherhood with evil intentions was very fun.
It's been so long I can't remember anything about the story. Kinda bummed about that. I would love to replay it but there is no way I'm starting a new character.
How do you start the brotherhood quest?
I wanted this to be a short comment but… turns out I had a lot to say. Spoiler warning for the whole thing, but I will also tag the bits that have specifics. For the first half of the quest line, I was 100% aligned with Rahmani. Shin was nothing but an asshole to me (ignoring my advice with the wastelanders and just generally having a bad attitude), plus Valdez, who was my favourite immediately, seemed more friendly with the Paladin. >!I killed the Blood Eagles and gave the Retreat a rocket launcher, and again Shin was just being (as far as I could tell) unnecessarily dickish regarding my solution to the problem. When we finally found the raiders who sold them the weapons, Shin’s approach to them was aggressive and xenophobic when it clearly didn’t need to be, since they acted more like spoilt kids than an actual threat to the brotherhood, and seemed mostly harmless. They were even willing to just back down without a fight once we confronted them, and let me wander in and out of their base like it was nothing later. I felt bad learning about Shin’s PTSD with Connors and the town they destroyed, but honestly it made me want to side with the Paladin even more, in the hopes of giving Shin a positive and kind Brotherhood environment to bring his spirits back up.!< When it came time to decide whether to >!establish contact with Lost Hills or not, I didn’t even hesitate to help Rahmani destroy the transmitter, because having played Fallout 1, I knew that the last thing Appalachia needed was another branch of that version of the Brotherhood gallivanting around. They’re paranoid fanatics, with clear superiority complexes and no plans for advancing humanity’s survival beyond “no more guns for you!” Shin was clearly far too dependent on their borderline fascist teachings of isolation and aggression, whereas Rahmani was much more open to becoming a helping hand in the Appalachian wasteland. I figured it would be good for my head-canon, considering how militaristic the Capital Brotherhood would eventually become, to have a more liberal Appalachian chapter to their south, softening their hard line stances.!< My view first started to change during A Knight’s Penance, when I saw first hand that despite his stiffness, Shin is a good guy deep down. >!First of all, he was absolutely right about finding the source of the Super Mutants as soon as possible, it made much more sense in the situation to act quickly than passively defend locations. With a swift enough attack, no further defence would be necessary. In the caves, I really enjoyed the moment where Hewsen suggests taking a photo. I bring my camera everywhere in 76, so I thought it would be fun to snap a pic of her, Norland and Shin by the Uncanny Caverns sign, and was overjoyed when they had dialogue about it (even Shin, who seemed dismissive of the distraction, smiled for the photo), it was very cute. When Norland died, I felt genuinely bad for Shin, who seemed incredibly remorseful and immediately blamed himself, like with the missile launchers and the destroyed town. He then went out of his way to risk his own life to save Hewsen.!< By the end of the mission I had definitely warmed up a lot to Shin, despite his gruffness in dialogue. Just as I grew to respect Shin more over the second half of the quest line, my respect for Rahmani completely dropped. In Out Of The Blue, >!her “undercover” work is just… nothing. She cracks immediately under pressure, and when we start working with Blue Ridge she is weird and accusatory against them, for flimsy reasons. Aries is clearly being way too up front and honest to be secretly conning us, and even if she had reason to believe he was leading us into a trap, why tf would she say that TO HIM? If he really is leading us into a trap, there is no way he wouldn’t immediately just kill us as soon as you start yapping about how you know what he’s up to. I thought it was purely bad writing at first, but then at the end of the quest, she’s all “oooh I’m sorry Aries for not trusting you, that was wrong and I regret it,” implying that it was all an intentional character beat.!< This severely damaged my view of her as a competent leader, but to be honest, I think I could’ve forgiven it, if not for the final quest. >!After clearing Vault 96 and apprehending Blackburn, we stupidly bring him to his lab and colleagues for some reason (plot contrivance, fine), and then he turns himself into a big bad super mutant. We kill it, save the day, and then go to confront the scientists he was working with. Based on their exclamations of horror when their boss got turned into the Hulk’s uglier cousin, I was expecting them to be remorseful and beg to work under the supervision of The Brotherhood to keep them in check. Instead, none of them showed any remorse at all. One of them, the bloke, was insisting that they continue working on the FEV formula, despite having just watched as his boss got turned into a comically horrible monster. The little sociopath, Nellie I think, was talking about how she had no regrets at all and even smiled when we were taking about the murders Blackburn committed. Finally, their leader Fahra, was a complete holier-than-thou, “just following orders” wet wipe, insisting that she didn’t want to do it but couldn’t bring herself to stop, and implying that the lives of her and her colleagues were more important than the average wastelander because they were talented scientists. I thought about it for a long time, talking to both Rahmani and Shin, but I just couldn’t bring myself to let them walk away after killing so many people, and knowing that at least two of them would quickly do it again. When Shin asked who should execute them, I felt it was wrong to make such a huge decision and then let someone else carry it out, so I gunned each one of them down with a single shot to the back of the head. Afterwards, I sat back from my desk and genuinely felt quite intense guilt, because I really didn’t want to just… kill them. I mean they were literally our prisoners, we could’ve just locked them up, but neither Rahmani nor Shin saw that as an option. She was too idealistic and naive, he was too headstrong and guilt ridden.!< So I headed back to Fort Atlas, and spoke to everyone about what had happened. Even flirted with Valdez 😦. To be honest, after looking up a video of a Rahmani ending… I felt much better siding with Shin. The Paladin was never really the right fit for the Brotherhood, and I hope we see her again in a comic or DLC or something, because I genuinely think she could be a great force for good in Appalachia. Unfortunately, her ending just gave me the same feeling I got when I found out that Nazi scientists helped design Disneyland. It’s not a good look.
i sided with rahmani and i think it was because shin was too rude to me in the beginning and i held it over his head. but next playthrough i will definitely side with him instead, i kind of regret my decision
Rahmani.. was the choice between a leader who was actively considering how the BoS could fit in and play well with the other factions and the civilians in appalachia, or an isolationist determined to help the BoS form the new Reich they are clearly pushing for, because he's a "good soldier who is just following orders". He probably wasn't a bad person, why I let him live, but from the perspective of a 76er I have more interest in seeing Appalachia improve and advance as a whole, than supporting the brotherhood in its authoritarian dreams. As for the horrible scientists, Valdez can keep them in line. Of all the BoS personnel Valdez was really the only suitable option to lead them alas that choice was never given.
I killed all those scientists.
Shinn. At first, I hated Shinn. But then Rahmani was an asshole to that dude in the gas mask for no reason (I made her apologize to him) and she didn’t help me at all during the Sheepsquatch Imposter fight at all, and then Shinn did the whole grenade jumper thing which made me respect him more. Then it came to Rahmani’s Project Paperclip shit, and I sided with Shinn because those scientists had to go.
I chose the paladin. I regret choosing the paladin after helping a friend do the questline recently. I dislike how reliant she is on her emotions and compassion for people. Those 3 scientists deserved to die because of what they did to people, but she decided they should live due to how she felt about killing people. I agreed with Shin wholeheartedly. Sadly, I didn't pay attention when I did it by myself.