50% podiums achieved, 50% of podiums won is pretty insane. He's won almost a third of all races he's started. His DNF stats are also pretty spectacular, last I checked (I think before this season) he had half as many DNFs as Verstappen, for instance, but twice as many races.
I don’t think someone like Lewis Hamilton would ever consider retiring just to keep his stats and ratios “nicer”. Especially because this guy have fuck all left to prove, irrespective of his stats
That's the thing though guys like Lewis are competitive and want to be the best. That's why they get to that level in the first place.
Not to mention if he still enjoys it and still performs at a high level why would he just pack it up and leave?
Considering the calibre of teammates he’s had in those same competitive cars, I’d still call that super fucking impressive. But that’s just my opinion.
George Russell is the only non-WDC teammate Hamilton lost to over the course of a season, and that ignores the context of 2022.
Just goes to show how good you need to be beat him, you must be WDC material.
Yea, it is just weird to say that he only loses to WDC level drivers when for half of his career if someone beats him they are automatically WDC - it is bit circular. If Bottas (mediocre driver, clearly not WDC material) ever beat Lewis he would also be WDC.
Whilst correct, a small disclaimer. During their times together:
1. Alonso vs Hamilton at McLaren: both got 4 wins and 1 DNF. However, Alonso's average finish position was 2.94 vs Hamilton at 3.00.
2. Button vs Hamilton at McLaren: Button 8 wins vs Lewis 10 wins. Button 6 fastest laps vs Lewis 9 fastest laps. But: Button 672 points vs Hamilton 657 points.2010: Button 5th in WDC, Hamilton 4th. 2011: Button 2nd vs Hamilton 5th in WDC. 2012: Button 5th, Hamilton 4th WDC
3. Rosberg vs Hamilton at Mercedes: Hamilton 32 wins vs Rosberg 22. Hamilton 19 fastest laps vs Rosberg 16. WDC: 3x Hamilton vs 1x Rosberg. Average grid position: Hamilton: 3.35 vs Rosberg: 2.29.
Of course Lewis is extremely good, but he was pretty even against the three you mentioned and the vast majority of his impressive stats came from his period against Bottas (which is a mediocre driver at best).
I think we all know that. 2011 Button beat Lewis and Alonso dropped a place on count back in 2007 and of course Rosberg won the 2016 WDC against Lewis.
Don’t forget rookie Lewis was brought in to be second driver for Alonso in 07, The 2012 season of Lewis was complete mess due to McLaren’s multiple Ferrari style mishaps, and in 2013 Lewis was a new driver to the Mercedes team while Nico was there 3 years ahead alongside Michael Schumacher and 2016 was an equivalent 2021 style battle where the smallest of margins mattered. It went Nico’s way due to Lewis’s engine blowing up in Malaysia.
I am just pointing out his statistics are insane as fuck despite having high caliber teammates over the years.
He still took on three other WDC champions in his racing career as teammates. I get that your stats are right but bloody hell Lewis pulled of some absolutely incredible stats in his racing career despite having challenges from all sides.
The stats vs Button are somewhat meaningless. Why not compare the average quali and race pace deficit, which were around 2/10 & 3/10s. Also ignores the fact that Hamilton had 3x retirements from the lead in 2012 alone, plus McLaren’s numerous pit stop errors, which almost certainly cost him a run the championship.
These are very headline figures with all context removed.
> but he was pretty even against the three you mentioned
It’s easy to say this when you cherry pick stats. If you watched the seasons, you’d have a completely different conclusion.
* Rosberg beat Hamilton one year due to mechanical failures costing Lewis over 100 points.
* Button was never close in performance to Hamilton. Ever. Lewis had an attraction to Massa one year which led to the rule change of needing to leave a cars width. (Front cars just kept turning into the passing car).
* And our boy Alonso played every dirty trick in the book including stopping Lewis from getting a qualifying lap.
It’s easy to sugarcoat reality, but if you want to talk about true performance go watch the races. Anyone making the argument about Button’s point tally ‘across seasons’ are telling on themselves.
>And our boy Alonso played every dirty trick in the book including stopping Lewis from getting a qualifying lap.
I wonder what prompted him to do that. Maybe a teammate ignoring team orders in his own favour?
I would have no qualm with Alonso for ignoring a team order. Thats standard practice. Max, Vettel, Lewis, Alonso and even Rosberg have done it. Basically anyone who has won a WDC.
But waiting in your pit box to stop a team mate from having another run is a different beast.
For 5 out of 16 seasons. And the rest were shared with whom? Alonso, Button, Rosberg, Russell, Kovaleinen. I know you’re sort of trying to downplay his success here, for whatever reasons, but in this aspect it’s quite impossible. I genuinely can’t think of any other drivers who had this many top teammates to compete against in the last 15 years. Let it go mate.
Point taken, he's had very competitive teammates in Rosberg, Button and Alonso. It's still astonishing to me Lewis got the upperhand on Alonso in his rookie year.
To get numbers like this, its a requirement to be in the best car for significant time.
If Max is going to get near these numbers, it will also require Red Bull to continue to deliver the best car to him.
If Alonso werent so unlucky with his career choices, he could probably have some crazy stat lines too.
While that is true, for some driver to be considered great isn't solely based on numbers. No one denies that Fernando is crazy talented as well, just had a hit and miss with some choices.
And it required Hungary to happen too.
Not that Hamilton isn't a great driver though. But as the initial guy said, it helps if you from the start of your career have cars that are competitive for the win, to get such stats.
How does that change anything? That McLaren was a race winning car and easily one of the two fastest that season, he’s had more good cars in his career than anyone else in history
It's so hilarious that people treat hamilton being SO GOOD that he was allowed to race from the start at a top team, opposite to the 2-time WC, and beat him is somehow something that people use against his records lmao.
If other drivers want to start racing at a top team, they should try being as good as a LH was.
Equalled, didn't beat. Weren't they even on points? Either way he was a rookie equalling one of the GOATS and the driver to dethrone the previous GOAT. Lewis is one of the best to ever do it, even if he had the dominant car for most of his career. Verstappen has the dominant car rn but that doesn't mean he is also soon to be a GOAT if we can't call him that already. They're both incredibly good and I hope we get another 2021 (just without AD as the last race so that we don't have to stretch the rules to make it interesting)
Didn’t take long for the relativising comments to show up. No chance to praise Hamilton for his achievements without at least one of you scrambling to say “it was the car!!” lol. Hoping you keep that same energy when talking about Verstappen’s achievements during the past 2 seasons.
Yeah, it'd be like if Red Bull had signed Piastri for this season and given him a seat in the Red Bull, and then Piastri beat Max.
It's really hard to get across just how impressive Hamilton's rookie season was.
Being a talent from his first race helps too. The man was not expected to do all of this and he did, competitively, race Alonso from the first corner. He was on a podium from his rookie race along with Kimi and Alonso and where was Massa? The man qualified 6th (then had a ten place grid penalty) and Kimi 1st. Even with the qualifying disadvantage of heavy fuel load Lewis was 4th.
People try downplay what he was. Heikki Kovalinin was Lewis teammate next year and couldn't get close to Lewis in overall pace. Talent and skill doesn't lie and neither does the stopwatch Lewis was within Alonsos race pace almost immediately. He didn't get gifted anything he earned it
I get what you mean but I dont think they are the same example. Alonso was the one who changed teams. Plus while Hamilton was a rookie, he wasnt a rookie that we see nowadays he had access to immense testing time which allowed him to get comfortable with the car.
I do believe what Hamilton did at the time was spectacular dont get me wrong. Its probably one of the best seasons of him as well. Im just saying the circumstances are not the same like you described. Thats what I am arguing with.
His 2006 Mclaren "results" were about 4000km of testing in a Mclaren, which is now unavailable to rookies in F1. Not sure if you are being purposely obtuse, but having about 12 races worth of familiarity in a car is a pretty big deal compared to a driver changing teams.
I did not say anything remotely close to Hamilton changing teams in 2007? I dont understand how you came to that conclusion as well. The person I responded to said it would be same if someone joined Verstappen in Redbull. Hamilton did not join Alonso in Renault as Alonso was racing for Renault in 2006. They both joined Mclaren in 2007. Hamilton as a rookie and Alonso from Renault.
I still dont understand what you thought I said.
Exactly lol. The best drivers get the best cars. Redbull put Max in F1 before he could legally drive a car on the road. Then put him in their first team early in his second season in F1. If you're an elite driver, the good cars will come to you. You can fuck it up by making shit decisions like Alonso, but you always get the chance.
Fastest laps for sure. I kind of hate fastest laps. Unless it's that the leader has built up so much lead that they can afford a free pitstop, it's just luck based on who happens to be the last of a cluster with a giant gap behind to the next cluster. That person who gets the free point didn't do anything better than the people in front of them.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis got a couple more poles. He got one this year. I mean, anyone who's gotten a second place this year, including Lewis a few times, could pick up a win if Max's car breaks down, so Lewis could luck into one of those.
Ya, I think fastest lap is like counting longest field goal. I mean sure, you have a good leg, but so many other things have to happen to even put you in the position to kick at that length, that you almost shouldnt even get the credit.
With unchanged regulations that's probably it. Mercedes will be in the thick with Ferrari, Aston and McLaren, maybe Alpine from time to time.
I'm gonna be bold and post numbers: 15 +/- 3 podiums until the end of 2025. And 3 poles and fastest laps each. Will stay on par with Russell overall, but the latter will produce more stand-out results.
Damn, he could easily hit the 200 podiums this season, that's a crazy stat despite the fact he's driven a good car for a long time.
Looks like Schumacher is p2 with 155 podiums and Max is p7 at 90 podiums.
Schumacher's total is really impressive considering how we have so many more races now compared to the majority of his active seasons, not to mention the cars were much less reliable back then as well.
>not to mention the cars were much less reliable back then as well.
I mean it wasn't exactly the 70s or 80s. Most of Schumacher's cars capable of regularly podiuming or winning races were pretty reliable tbh, especially his championship winning Ferraris which were barely less reliable than current cars.
And he didn't have a competitive car for his second stint as well. Also his first seasons the Benetton was far from being a car to be placed on podiums by default. And he went against senna, Prost, mansell etc. in his first 2 seasons.
Also did a switch to a clearly worse car which needs credit as well.
Schumacher raced against way more champions than Hamilton. I don’t think it’s realistic to compare stats after significant numbers of rule change either.
Tis indeed a fine amount of champions!
But Schumacher raced against
Piquet, Senna, Prost, Mansell, Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, Vettel, Button, and a pre-champ Rosberg.
So their comment is correct, though he raced some for just a handful of races, Schumacher raced more champions.
Sounds great.
I like how my original comment was specifically pointing out how incredible Schumacher's podium stat was due to fewer races per season and worse reliability and yet has somehow turned into people attempting to diminish Hamilton's stats instead of praising Schumacher's.
Fans never fail to disappoint.
Oh i wasn‘t talking about the record. The question was what will he achieve and race starts is the only 100% predictible stats that he will get more in.
I give him and Merc a good shot for a last dance in 2025, his last year if he decides so. Would be kind of deserving to close such a magnificent career with a fairytale ending and walking into the sunset as the undebatable greatest of the sport ever. Let‘s see! :-)
A McLaren fighting for the title?
Something totally unheard of since 2010 (Hamilton was there).
Since then you've had only Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari.
Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.
They did not introduce regulations to nerf Mercedes, the biggest changes in regulation history was 2014s. Generally the regulations are for safety reasons and sometimes to reduce costs. They are however not introduced to penalize teams for winning. It’s laughable to suggest that’s got any basis in reality. However if you want to provide some credible sources that can prove otherwise, I would be extremely keen to read it.
The 2017 regs brought ferrari back into the fold. They had the faster car for alot of 2017/2018 and just lost the development race/seb made mistakes. There was also the party mode ban and DAS ban, which absolutely had impacts in 2021.
Finally the 2021 regs while not directly intended to nerf merc, absolutely had the effect of hurting low rake cars.
The FIA did plenty to try and nerf Merc. Much like RB is now, Merc had a solid package and just did a pretty good job of adapting to changes.
Hopefully he can even those wins and poles again.
E: Not sure why this is being downvoted to hell, I just liked it when both had the same amount, it was pleasing...
If he wins 1 more race he'll have the same amount of wins as poles, thus evening them out. How is that mathematically impossible? Have I been misunderstood? I didn't mean conversion rate...
Maybe a dozen or so podiums depending on how blessed he remains and maybe 1 or 2 wins if he gets really blessed with some other drivers experiencing some timely DNFs.
Depends. If they don't whip out a weapon. Not much. Podiums and the occasional win. A title will be so fucking tough. Even if he has the car. Now he not only has a Verstappen in a weapon (since rules don't change much, their car will remain a solid platform), he also has George in his own camp. Who will probably do fuck all to help Lewis win if he sees a chance to win a title. Realisticly I see 1-5 wins and 5-15 podiums. The occasional pole too. In the end of the day we don't no. Nobody does.
Idk given how this season has been going I feel like George isn't THAT big a threat. George is fucking rapid don't get me wrong but I don't think he has the stamina to challenge Lewis over a season.
Honestly, I feel like if Merc made a better car, Hamilton would instantly change, I feel like we haven’t seen his best form. He probably isn’t willingly hiding it, but if they made a contending car and he clicked with it from the beginning, I feel like he would absolutely level up and become a beast again.
The way it looks now. Probably 15 more podiums minimum. Maybe 3-5 wins or poles but a championship doesn't look likely given how far ahead the RB is now and they can keep developing on that.
It would be cool if he won again, but he's old enough be in the top 18 of oldest drivers to win a race. If he cant win this year, he'll be 39 next year and that would be somewhere in the top 13 and there's only one recent driver on that list. Not saying it's impossible, but history...
[https://gpracingstats.com/records/oldest-drivers-to-win-an-f1-race/](https://gpracingstats.com/records/oldest-drivers-to-win-an-f1-race/)
Well I think he is a great driver but what made him win is gone. The split turbo is available to red bull thanks to honda and a better one even. If Renault back in time did not copy the fake bullshit pictures of the Merc engine leaks and they would have done a split turbo too...merc would have won zero titles.
Adrian N. Is the best car designer.
So till the next engine comes nothing will change and even then. Audi is for a reason in the F1. The VW group never joins something without rigging the rules to something they already have and know will outperform others.
As much as love watching Lewis I wish he could have gone out on a high with that 8th title in ’21. Such a farce to see someone dominating a race and then losing because they had old tires and the FIA breaking their own rules.
Wolff slightly turned me around on this like
We can agree Verstappen is a valid champion. Can we agree the points were even-stevens going in, and the best man on the day will win? Ok. Fine.
Who should've won Abu Dhabi?
That line got me.
There’s no “Hamilton camp” if you value fairness in sports, as much as there can be anyway. Whether it’s rule breaking technically is a pretty weak semantic argument because the FIA sure as shit did not follow their own guidelines for restarting that race.
Why are you so hurt that Lewis was able to catch up and match Max in points that season going into Abu Dhabi? It’s like being upset that someone leading a marathon for the first 25 miles is passed in the final stretch. Those first 25 miles don’t really matter. (As a runner, they FEEL like they do, but it’s just a metaphor).
Maybe a couple of wins with a bit of luck? I don't want to be too pessimistic. But it's hard to see Mercedes having a car that consistently competes for wins over the next two seasons.
When vettel got his 9 in a row, there were other race winners. This season it feels like all the drivers that could challenge max, don’t have the car.
But honestly speaking, i think max would still pull something like this off with competition because he’s that good. But I think because of the lack of competition, people aren’t turning heads as much
Hopefully he can hit double digits with world championships
200+ podiums
And he needs to get race wins and poles equal again, it's much prettier that way
Why do people think he has no chance for the 8th? All it takes is a good car, and he can challange Max. Look up how many years has passed between Lauda's 2nd and 3rd title.
Don't think the Massa family is interested in specifically changing the "officialy recorded" outcome of that season, mostly seeking a whole lot of damages
These stats are just nuts.
>50% win:podium ratio is silly
50% podiums achieved, 50% of podiums won is pretty insane. He's won almost a third of all races he's started. His DNF stats are also pretty spectacular, last I checked (I think before this season) he had half as many DNFs as Verstappen, for instance, but twice as many races.
Mercedes, Honda and especially Renault have quite the part in that last statistic
I feel he will just gonna keep mudding is ratios. Imo he could have retired 2 y ago and kept is insane stats as they were
I don’t think someone like Lewis Hamilton would ever consider retiring just to keep his stats and ratios “nicer”. Especially because this guy have fuck all left to prove, irrespective of his stats
Leaving at his peak or on downwards trajectory. He has nothing to prove I agree, and he doesn't need to chase one last wdc either.
That's the thing though guys like Lewis are competitive and want to be the best. That's why they get to that level in the first place. Not to mention if he still enjoys it and still performs at a high level why would he just pack it up and leave?
I mean Max currently has 90 podiums, 46 wins. And let's be honest, hes going to improve that ratio even more this (and probably next) year.
Yes Max is also an awesome driver, your point?
when you are one of the longest serving drivers the sport has ever had and have had a competitive car for almost every season
Considering the calibre of teammates he’s had in those same competitive cars, I’d still call that super fucking impressive. But that’s just my opinion.
Lewis went up against Alonso, Button and Rosberg. Absolutely insane how good he is.
George Russell is the only non-WDC teammate Hamilton lost to over the course of a season, and that ignores the context of 2022. Just goes to show how good you need to be beat him, you must be WDC material.
I would put rosberg there too - since Nico is only WDC because he beat Lewis, so it is a bit of a circular logic to say Lewis lost to WDC there.
It's a weird one. The moment Lewis officially lost to Rosberg, Rosberg was WDC, they happened at the same time.
Yea, it is just weird to say that he only loses to WDC level drivers when for half of his career if someone beats him they are automatically WDC - it is bit circular. If Bottas (mediocre driver, clearly not WDC material) ever beat Lewis he would also be WDC.
So that does prove that you need to be WDC calibre to beat him? The fact that you have to literally win the WDC to beat him?
Whilst correct, a small disclaimer. During their times together: 1. Alonso vs Hamilton at McLaren: both got 4 wins and 1 DNF. However, Alonso's average finish position was 2.94 vs Hamilton at 3.00. 2. Button vs Hamilton at McLaren: Button 8 wins vs Lewis 10 wins. Button 6 fastest laps vs Lewis 9 fastest laps. But: Button 672 points vs Hamilton 657 points.2010: Button 5th in WDC, Hamilton 4th. 2011: Button 2nd vs Hamilton 5th in WDC. 2012: Button 5th, Hamilton 4th WDC 3. Rosberg vs Hamilton at Mercedes: Hamilton 32 wins vs Rosberg 22. Hamilton 19 fastest laps vs Rosberg 16. WDC: 3x Hamilton vs 1x Rosberg. Average grid position: Hamilton: 3.35 vs Rosberg: 2.29. Of course Lewis is extremely good, but he was pretty even against the three you mentioned and the vast majority of his impressive stats came from his period against Bottas (which is a mediocre driver at best).
I think we all know that. 2011 Button beat Lewis and Alonso dropped a place on count back in 2007 and of course Rosberg won the 2016 WDC against Lewis. Don’t forget rookie Lewis was brought in to be second driver for Alonso in 07, The 2012 season of Lewis was complete mess due to McLaren’s multiple Ferrari style mishaps, and in 2013 Lewis was a new driver to the Mercedes team while Nico was there 3 years ahead alongside Michael Schumacher and 2016 was an equivalent 2021 style battle where the smallest of margins mattered. It went Nico’s way due to Lewis’s engine blowing up in Malaysia. I am just pointing out his statistics are insane as fuck despite having high caliber teammates over the years. He still took on three other WDC champions in his racing career as teammates. I get that your stats are right but bloody hell Lewis pulled of some absolutely incredible stats in his racing career despite having challenges from all sides.
The stats vs Button are somewhat meaningless. Why not compare the average quali and race pace deficit, which were around 2/10 & 3/10s. Also ignores the fact that Hamilton had 3x retirements from the lead in 2012 alone, plus McLaren’s numerous pit stop errors, which almost certainly cost him a run the championship. These are very headline figures with all context removed.
> but he was pretty even against the three you mentioned It’s easy to say this when you cherry pick stats. If you watched the seasons, you’d have a completely different conclusion. * Rosberg beat Hamilton one year due to mechanical failures costing Lewis over 100 points. * Button was never close in performance to Hamilton. Ever. Lewis had an attraction to Massa one year which led to the rule change of needing to leave a cars width. (Front cars just kept turning into the passing car). * And our boy Alonso played every dirty trick in the book including stopping Lewis from getting a qualifying lap. It’s easy to sugarcoat reality, but if you want to talk about true performance go watch the races. Anyone making the argument about Button’s point tally ‘across seasons’ are telling on themselves.
>And our boy Alonso played every dirty trick in the book including stopping Lewis from getting a qualifying lap. I wonder what prompted him to do that. Maybe a teammate ignoring team orders in his own favour?
I would have no qualm with Alonso for ignoring a team order. Thats standard practice. Max, Vettel, Lewis, Alonso and even Rosberg have done it. Basically anyone who has won a WDC. But waiting in your pit box to stop a team mate from having another run is a different beast.
His longest teammate was Bottas
For 5 out of 16 seasons. And the rest were shared with whom? Alonso, Button, Rosberg, Russell, Kovaleinen. I know you’re sort of trying to downplay his success here, for whatever reasons, but in this aspect it’s quite impossible. I genuinely can’t think of any other drivers who had this many top teammates to compete against in the last 15 years. Let it go mate.
Prost had the most world champions as teammates of any driver, and he's also one of the greatest drivers of all time
That Senna documentary did him so dirty iirc But Prost def shouldn’t undermine how tough Lewis’s teammates were
Yes, definitely. But I was specifically talking about the past 15 years roughly
Point taken, he's had very competitive teammates in Rosberg, Button and Alonso. It's still astonishing to me Lewis got the upperhand on Alonso in his rookie year.
And Prost is one of the greatest drivers of all time. Lewis is a top 3 F1 driver all time. And it’s not even a question.
He’s no Lauda
Not just competitive, dominant.
He didn't have a dominant car every season. He barely had one the majority of seasons he raced.
His Merc won 8/8 constructor's championships, even one year during which they lost the driver's - I'd call that dominant. edit-typo
It's naturally what happens when you get the fastest car for longer than anyone in F1 history.
Sure, but you still need to do it 103 times.
Unless your teammate is also a crazy-fast driver. Then it starts to look more impressive.
Valtteri Bottas, crazy fast teammate. Much impressive.
Are there any drivers you think are impressive, or are they all just fucking scrubs in your brain?
Take your brain out of the blender
Gotta appreciate the numbers man. Even with Max. To be so insanely good at something for such a long period of time, must be special.
To get numbers like this, its a requirement to be in the best car for significant time. If Max is going to get near these numbers, it will also require Red Bull to continue to deliver the best car to him. If Alonso werent so unlucky with his career choices, he could probably have some crazy stat lines too.
While that is true, for some driver to be considered great isn't solely based on numbers. No one denies that Fernando is crazy talented as well, just had a hit and miss with some choices.
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He gave the then already legend who dethroned Schumacher a hard time as a rookie. Quit this nonsense
"Gave him a hard time" is a massive understatement, he straight up beat Alonso. And people were concerned he would throw the WCC down the drain...
I wouldn't call a tie on points decided by a tiebreaker "straight up beat", but what do i know
And it required Hungary to happen too. Not that Hamilton isn't a great driver though. But as the initial guy said, it helps if you from the start of your career have cars that are competitive for the win, to get such stats.
Verstappen has had race winning cars in all but his 1st year, but for some reason no one ever mentions that. I wonder why.
Hungary where he was on provisional pole but unable to set a second lap? There’s a reason he got a race winning car from the get go though.
How does that change anything? That McLaren was a race winning car and easily one of the two fastest that season, he’s had more good cars in his career than anyone else in history
It's so hilarious that people treat hamilton being SO GOOD that he was allowed to race from the start at a top team, opposite to the 2-time WC, and beat him is somehow something that people use against his records lmao. If other drivers want to start racing at a top team, they should try being as good as a LH was.
You are the 'car' crowd, I see. Keep on crying about it as if other champions have been winning driving Volkswagen Beetles.
He literally beat Alonso in that first season...
Ya, the dude has had some awesome competition from his teammates over the years, and still put those stats up. F-ng legend.
Equalled, didn't beat. Weren't they even on points? Either way he was a rookie equalling one of the GOATS and the driver to dethrone the previous GOAT. Lewis is one of the best to ever do it, even if he had the dominant car for most of his career. Verstappen has the dominant car rn but that doesn't mean he is also soon to be a GOAT if we can't call him that already. They're both incredibly good and I hope we get another 2021 (just without AD as the last race so that we don't have to stretch the rules to make it interesting)
Equal on points but according to the rule book beat him because of more 2nd places I think? (Or more 3rds).
He beat him, same points but there are tiebreakers which Lewis won on.
Didn’t take long for the relativising comments to show up. No chance to praise Hamilton for his achievements without at least one of you scrambling to say “it was the car!!” lol. Hoping you keep that same energy when talking about Verstappen’s achievements during the past 2 seasons.
Like sure you can't win in a crap car but you also don't beat Alonso as a rookie in the same car without being one of the best to ever drive one
Yeah, it'd be like if Red Bull had signed Piastri for this season and given him a seat in the Red Bull, and then Piastri beat Max. It's really hard to get across just how impressive Hamilton's rookie season was.
I don’t understand why both can’t be true at the same time for some people..
Exactly my thought Verstappens dominance -> Skill Hamiltons dominance -> the car
Being a talent from his first race helps too. The man was not expected to do all of this and he did, competitively, race Alonso from the first corner. He was on a podium from his rookie race along with Kimi and Alonso and where was Massa? The man qualified 6th (then had a ten place grid penalty) and Kimi 1st. Even with the qualifying disadvantage of heavy fuel load Lewis was 4th. People try downplay what he was. Heikki Kovalinin was Lewis teammate next year and couldn't get close to Lewis in overall pace. Talent and skill doesn't lie and neither does the stopwatch Lewis was within Alonsos race pace almost immediately. He didn't get gifted anything he earned it
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I get what you mean but I dont think they are the same example. Alonso was the one who changed teams. Plus while Hamilton was a rookie, he wasnt a rookie that we see nowadays he had access to immense testing time which allowed him to get comfortable with the car. I do believe what Hamilton did at the time was spectacular dont get me wrong. Its probably one of the best seasons of him as well. Im just saying the circumstances are not the same like you described. Thats what I am arguing with.
HAM didn’t change teams in 2007? Care to share his 2006 McLaren F1 results?
His 2006 Mclaren "results" were about 4000km of testing in a Mclaren, which is now unavailable to rookies in F1. Not sure if you are being purposely obtuse, but having about 12 races worth of familiarity in a car is a pretty big deal compared to a driver changing teams.
So he did not race F1 in 2006, glad you see sense afterall. Good on you. 👍
I did not say anything remotely close to Hamilton changing teams in 2007? I dont understand how you came to that conclusion as well. The person I responded to said it would be same if someone joined Verstappen in Redbull. Hamilton did not join Alonso in Renault as Alonso was racing for Renault in 2006. They both joined Mclaren in 2007. Hamilton as a rookie and Alonso from Renault. I still dont understand what you thought I said.
*”Alonso was the one who changed teams.”* Meaning ALO changed, while HAM did not. I simply asked for HAM’s 2006 results, which I must have missed.
And that's supposed to be a mark against him or something?
Exactly lol. The best drivers get the best cars. Redbull put Max in F1 before he could legally drive a car on the road. Then put him in their first team early in his second season in F1. If you're an elite driver, the good cars will come to you. You can fuck it up by making shit decisions like Alonso, but you always get the chance.
We get it dude, you keep commenting the same thing.
Podiums
Fastest laps for sure. I kind of hate fastest laps. Unless it's that the leader has built up so much lead that they can afford a free pitstop, it's just luck based on who happens to be the last of a cluster with a giant gap behind to the next cluster. That person who gets the free point didn't do anything better than the people in front of them. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis got a couple more poles. He got one this year. I mean, anyone who's gotten a second place this year, including Lewis a few times, could pick up a win if Max's car breaks down, so Lewis could luck into one of those.
Ya, I think fastest lap is like counting longest field goal. I mean sure, you have a good leg, but so many other things have to happen to even put you in the position to kick at that length, that you almost shouldnt even get the credit.
With unchanged regulations that's probably it. Mercedes will be in the thick with Ferrari, Aston and McLaren, maybe Alpine from time to time. I'm gonna be bold and post numbers: 15 +/- 3 podiums until the end of 2025. And 3 poles and fastest laps each. Will stay on par with Russell overall, but the latter will produce more stand-out results.
Damn, he could easily hit the 200 podiums this season, that's a crazy stat despite the fact he's driven a good car for a long time. Looks like Schumacher is p2 with 155 podiums and Max is p7 at 90 podiums. Schumacher's total is really impressive considering how we have so many more races now compared to the majority of his active seasons, not to mention the cars were much less reliable back then as well.
>not to mention the cars were much less reliable back then as well. I mean it wasn't exactly the 70s or 80s. Most of Schumacher's cars capable of regularly podiuming or winning races were pretty reliable tbh, especially his championship winning Ferraris which were barely less reliable than current cars.
That was the 2000s yes. Before that I would say way less reliability and that's almost a whole decade he raced in.
And he didn't have a competitive car for his second stint as well. Also his first seasons the Benetton was far from being a car to be placed on podiums by default. And he went against senna, Prost, mansell etc. in his first 2 seasons. Also did a switch to a clearly worse car which needs credit as well.
Hamilton switching to mercedes was seen at the time as a risky career ending move.
On the other side he had Schumacher / Brawn / Lauda working and developing the team. There is people I would trust less
Schumacher raced against way more champions than Hamilton. I don’t think it’s realistic to compare stats after significant numbers of rule change either.
Kimi, Alonso, Seb, Button, Schumacher, Max, Rosberg seem like a decent amount of champions to race against.
Tis indeed a fine amount of champions! But Schumacher raced against Piquet, Senna, Prost, Mansell, Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, Vettel, Button, and a pre-champ Rosberg. So their comment is correct, though he raced some for just a handful of races, Schumacher raced more champions.
Sounds great. I like how my original comment was specifically pointing out how incredible Schumacher's podium stat was due to fewer races per season and worse reliability and yet has somehow turned into people attempting to diminish Hamilton's stats instead of praising Schumacher's. Fans never fail to disappoint.
Race Starts
Only predictable answer.
Bold
Extremely bold
He's still gonna be behind Alonso in that record for quite some time even if Alonso retires and Hamilton doesn't.
Oh i wasn‘t talking about the record. The question was what will he achieve and race starts is the only 100% predictible stats that he will get more in.
As DR proved, even that's not predictable
200 podiums is likely.
More races started
Can Mercedes have the better car? Or, at least, capable to fight for the top? That's the real question
I get the feeling that on a twisty track, if HAM can get a great Qually and start first two rows, his race pace may be able to steal one.
I give him and Merc a good shot for a last dance in 2025, his last year if he decides so. Would be kind of deserving to close such a magnificent career with a fairytale ending and walking into the sunset as the undebatable greatest of the sport ever. Let‘s see! :-)
I think the fia throws some sort of curve ball against RB in 25 tries and nerf it a bit. They love to do that at the end of a regulation cycle
But do the FIA actually know what RB has that can be nerfed? I dont think so
A lot may nerf the rest too, so then it won't matter
But do the FIA actually know what RB has that can be nerfed? I dont think so
At this point it feels like McLaren would be the team that would take advantage of those curve balls in 25.
A McLaren fighting for the title? Something totally unheard of since 2010 (Hamilton was there). Since then you've had only Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari. Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.
They literally said they wouldn’t do that, because it makes no sense to punish teams for being successful.
Curb your enthusiasm credits roll
Iirc they said wouldn't do it mid season. They definitely did put new regulations to nerf Merc and Ferrari in their dominance eras
They did not introduce regulations to nerf Mercedes, the biggest changes in regulation history was 2014s. Generally the regulations are for safety reasons and sometimes to reduce costs. They are however not introduced to penalize teams for winning. It’s laughable to suggest that’s got any basis in reality. However if you want to provide some credible sources that can prove otherwise, I would be extremely keen to read it.
The 2017 regs brought ferrari back into the fold. They had the faster car for alot of 2017/2018 and just lost the development race/seb made mistakes. There was also the party mode ban and DAS ban, which absolutely had impacts in 2021. Finally the 2021 regs while not directly intended to nerf merc, absolutely had the effect of hurting low rake cars. The FIA did plenty to try and nerf Merc. Much like RB is now, Merc had a solid package and just did a pretty good job of adapting to changes.
Don't think it would be unbeatable greatest of all time but definitely a incredible accomplishment
Podiums. An occasional pole or maybe a win. Mercedes aren't seeing a championship unless they pull off a miracle car.
They've done it before.
They're not *that* far. Hard but doable.
Hopefully he can even those wins and poles again. E: Not sure why this is being downvoted to hell, I just liked it when both had the same amount, it was pleasing...
~~That’s mathematically impossible.~~ Edit: Post workout brain be mush, my bad.
If he wins 1 more race he'll have the same amount of wins as poles, thus evening them out. How is that mathematically impossible? Have I been misunderstood? I didn't mean conversion rate...
I absolutely butchered my reading comprehension there. I thought of podiums rather than poles.
Huh? He could simply win from anywhere but pole position and even the numbers up.
I’ve already made the change.
Maybe a dozen or so podiums depending on how blessed he remains and maybe 1 or 2 wins if he gets really blessed with some other drivers experiencing some timely DNFs.
Here's hope he doesn't drop down to 6 world champions (Massa lawsuit)
Depends. If they don't whip out a weapon. Not much. Podiums and the occasional win. A title will be so fucking tough. Even if he has the car. Now he not only has a Verstappen in a weapon (since rules don't change much, their car will remain a solid platform), he also has George in his own camp. Who will probably do fuck all to help Lewis win if he sees a chance to win a title. Realisticly I see 1-5 wins and 5-15 podiums. The occasional pole too. In the end of the day we don't no. Nobody does.
Idk given how this season has been going I feel like George isn't THAT big a threat. George is fucking rapid don't get me wrong but I don't think he has the stamina to challenge Lewis over a season.
Honestly, I feel like if Merc made a better car, Hamilton would instantly change, I feel like we haven’t seen his best form. He probably isn’t willingly hiding it, but if they made a contending car and he clicked with it from the beginning, I feel like he would absolutely level up and become a beast again.
Probably a couple podiums
He might get another win or two. But between Mercedes lack of performance and Lewis getting older doubt another championship will be possible.
Best I can do you is P2
Handful of third places
Just get a podium here and there and 6 fastest laps so he can have 69 of them
The way it looks now. Probably 15 more podiums minimum. Maybe 3-5 wins or poles but a championship doesn't look likely given how far ahead the RB is now and they can keep developing on that.
Can’t RB hit a dev wall of diminishing returns such that Merc could somewhat catch up?
15 podiums sure. 3 wins when he hasn't had any in 2 years and the car is only close to the RB's in the first corner? Crazy.
Well, Russell did win last year.
It would be cool if he won again, but he's old enough be in the top 18 of oldest drivers to win a race. If he cant win this year, he'll be 39 next year and that would be somewhere in the top 13 and there's only one recent driver on that list. Not saying it's impossible, but history... [https://gpracingstats.com/records/oldest-drivers-to-win-an-f1-race/](https://gpracingstats.com/records/oldest-drivers-to-win-an-f1-race/)
Given how unbelievably dominant RB is, don’t expect much. He will probably get some podiums here and there. But that’s about it.
Large real estate purchase
Best i can do is 2 or 3 podiums
2 podiums
He doesn't have to achieve anything to be frank. Any further achievements is just gonna make Max's road to be the best hisotrically a bit harder.
42 more race starts?
P5
Roughly £100,000,000 I suspect
Well I think he is a great driver but what made him win is gone. The split turbo is available to red bull thanks to honda and a better one even. If Renault back in time did not copy the fake bullshit pictures of the Merc engine leaks and they would have done a split turbo too...merc would have won zero titles. Adrian N. Is the best car designer. So till the next engine comes nothing will change and even then. Audi is for a reason in the F1. The VW group never joins something without rigging the rules to something they already have and know will outperform others.
I reckon the race starts number will increase
200 podiums!
P2 vs Max
5 wins would be nice
8 would be a lot better
Any reason?
111 probably?
That's what I thought maybe
Would be awesome if he also managed 7 poles, ending with 111 wins and 111 pole positions
As much as love watching Lewis I wish he could have gone out on a high with that 8th title in ’21. Such a farce to see someone dominating a race and then losing because they had old tires and the FIA breaking their own rules.
Wolff slightly turned me around on this like We can agree Verstappen is a valid champion. Can we agree the points were even-stevens going in, and the best man on the day will win? Ok. Fine. Who should've won Abu Dhabi? That line got me.
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There’s no “Hamilton camp” if you value fairness in sports, as much as there can be anyway. Whether it’s rule breaking technically is a pretty weak semantic argument because the FIA sure as shit did not follow their own guidelines for restarting that race.
My wife is a relative neutral, watched the drive to survive episode and nearly packed F1 in completely.
Why are you so hurt that Lewis was able to catch up and match Max in points that season going into Abu Dhabi? It’s like being upset that someone leading a marathon for the first 25 miles is passed in the final stretch. Those first 25 miles don’t really matter. (As a runner, they FEEL like they do, but it’s just a metaphor).
Not hurt at all. Was the best season in years
I share that sentiment
FIA's "human error" assessment disagrees with u bud
Maybe a couple of wins with a bit of luck? I don't want to be too pessimistic. But it's hard to see Mercedes having a car that consistently competes for wins over the next two seasons.
I’m gonna say wins. I believe in him
No one knows tbh…
365 race starts 😎
GOAT Stats. Anything else achieved is just a bonus
His 9th title
Well, his 8th is already impossible so good luck!
I’d settle for 10 wins, 20 podiums and a title.
With the speed Merc are developing at right now, he'll be very lucky to get 10 podiums, and maybe one more race win.
A good few podiums, maybe 1 or 2 wins and poles. Fuck all else
Race starts is on there too
380 race starts.
With a competitive car, another world championship.
More 'zorry vohr ze bad cahr' from Toto?
Ninth world championship
I don't know but Verstappen is literally making history this year and people are still clinging on to the past.
When vettel got his 9 in a row, there were other race winners. This season it feels like all the drivers that could challenge max, don’t have the car. But honestly speaking, i think max would still pull something like this off with competition because he’s that good. But I think because of the lack of competition, people aren’t turning heads as much
3rd
Hopefully he can hit double digits with world championships 200+ podiums And he needs to get race wins and poles equal again, it's much prettier that way
it would be much better if a WDC not named Lewis or Max would appear
Why do people think he has no chance for the 8th? All it takes is a good car, and he can challange Max. Look up how many years has passed between Lauda's 2nd and 3rd title.
I really want that 8th wdc
He can have -1 championship title thanks to Massa
Don't think the Massa family is interested in specifically changing the "officialy recorded" outcome of that season, mostly seeking a whole lot of damages
Not much
I said it in beginning of 2022 and I'll say it now. Lewis won't win another race for the rest of his career.
I'll bet £2000 he wins another race.
No one cares.
2 more championships 🔥
Retirement
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Maybe he can get 104 wins.