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pushmojorawley

It’s interesting how Aston Martin can be so inconsistent with pace and upgrades. 


LuNiK7505

Oh they are consistent, just consistently shit


pushmojorawley

If you were talking about Mercedes, fine. Aston suffers driving with one good driver. 


MountainJuice

That one good driver has fewer points than both Mercs.


danyyyel

Might sound silly, but ate they concentrating on stroll feedback rather than Nando. Because since the upgrade stroll seems to be faster.


pushmojorawley

Well if they are, then I expect an exodus of staff in no time. 


eclipsedynasty

based on what


BuckN56

Based on a reddit comment, duh.


gsurfer04

> Aston suffers driving with one good driver.  Who was the one who got points today?


Worth-Professional60

Yes cause one good race makes up for all the bad ones for one of them. And one bad race erases all the good ones for the other... /s


Visual-Prior-3929

Alonso did have an absolute shiter tho


earthtoannie

If the McLaren catch up is not a lighting in a bottle, Perez is gonna be on the chopping block so much sooner than we think. It's gonna become pivotal for RBR to have a second driver consistently on podium and close behind Max to help him with the WDC.


aaaaaaadjsf

Pérez was slower than the McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes drivers today. That's just horrific, especially with Mercedes missing 4 tenths of a second compared to the top teams. That's not acceptable at this level, being 4 tenths of a second, per lap, off of the pace around an 80 second lap. Pérez was also matched by Hamilton for pace at Miami. Yes, Hamilton is one of the fastest in race pace and Russell is one of the best qualifiers, but they're driving the impossible to set up Mercedes W15!


Kait0yashio

i mean sainz was also matching lewis, the top 3 drivers are just better and oscar is maturing


aaaaaaadjsf

I think Sainz is just not happy with the Ferrari upgrades, he's not gotten to terms with them yet. His comments in the media suggest that. Sainz has a specific driving style and window in which he's fastest. Hulkenberg spoke about it while he was at Renault, that Hulkenberg knew that he would beat Sainz as a teammate because of what he saw in the data. I think once Sainz gets comfortable with the upgrades, his pace will return. However, that's what makes the top drivers the best, they can adapt to anything and adapt quicker than the rest.


Kait0yashio

True about the driving style change, but even in miami and china he was 10s and 7s behind, so the pace issues were already showing, the upgrades will probably make it even worse.


Admirable_Ad_1390

Maybe this is just the reality, le clerc is the quicker driver and has always been


ShadowStarX

finish 8 seconds behind is at least respectable Leclerc is better, easy as that but Verstappen-Pérez gap was much, much bigger than what Leclerc and Sainz had


IHaveADullUsername

“These comparisons shouldn’t be given absolute authority regarding the respective levels of team-mates because there are so many variables. It was telling, for example, not long after Sainz first joined Renault at the tail end of 2017 that Hülkenberg, having had a chance to study the telemetry, was saying privately that he was confident he would prevail over Sainz because the Spaniard’s driving style, which was very different to his own, would not be suited to the traits of the cars that Enstone was producing and developing.” https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/mph-theres-no-guarantee-ricciardo-will-be-number-one-renault/


cheezus171

15 seconds behind Leclerc is about what you'd expect from Sainz though. The last few races was Leclerc being in worse shape. They were the outlier.


ShadowStarX

Sainz at least beat the Mercs by half a pit stop's distance Pérez didn't even approach them


cheezus171

He wasn't slower than the Mercs when he could do anything about it. He made up 15 seconds to Hamilton in the 2nd stint. In the first he lost a ton because a. They were extending him on dead tyres waiting for a safety car, and b. On this track overtaking is impossible unless you're 1s+ quicker per lap. Lando was half a second faster than Max and couldn't properly get into DRS even despite spending 5 laps 1,5s behind him. I really struggle to comprehend why people ar the same time complain about the track making it impossible to overtake on, and also about drivers not overtaking. There were barely any overtakes all race, why would you expect Perez specifically to pull them off, especially considering his strategy involved conserving his rubber, hoping for a SC and jumping people in the pits...


ARoyaleWithCheese

You forget him going off and losing 5+ seconds just before a crucial pitstop window. He basically doomed his race from there on.


cheezus171

It literally did not matter lol what the hell are you talking about They gambled on a safety car that didn't come. If he didn't go off in that corner he would've been 30s behind Hamilton instead of 35s as he was coming out the pits. Big whoop.


Rocket-888

Mid season only the VCARB drivers would be available and I don't think Yuki and especially not Ricciardo were bothering the podium today if they were in the 2nd Red Bull.


BigPharmaKarmaFarma

They don't need to bother the podium, they just need to finish top 5 to get more WCC points than the other teams.


ShadowStarX

even 1-6 gets the same points as 2-3 if not accounting for Fastest Lap


SommWineGuy

Yuki was dragging that VCARB far higher than it belonged in FP and Quali. I honestly think he'd have been in a fight for 3rd of he'd been in the RB.


Snoo84027

Lawson or Yuki I think


xanlact

Sooner than we think.... Is still just 2025. They aren't cutting Perez in season.


LeWigre

Agreed. Even if the WCC would be in jeopardy, there's no obvious improvement around that would be a safer bet than Perez - who's finished 2, 2, 5, 2, 3 and 4 before today. Today he finished 8th. Yes, if he goes on a similar streak of bad performance as last year, thats bad. But they know he's got it in him, and they dont know that for anyone else.


ShadowStarX

that 3 was on a weekend where his pace should've gotten him 2 and that 4 was after Sainz-Piastri inchident


LeWigre

So what? It's plenty good enough to finish first with Max at the front is the point.


jso__

Unless they pull another half a second out of the car, they'll lose P1 in the WCC if they don't cut Checo


xanlact

Cut him for who?


San-Carton

Yuki maybe? Then put Liam into the RB


wilkonk

It seems likely Ferrari and McLaren will hurt each other enough for Red Bull to hold onto it with just Max, as long as he keeps winning most of the races, but it'll be a lot tighter than it ought to be. If either of those teams improve enough (maybe adapt to their new upgrades, maybe bring more) to start taking too many wins away they'll be in trouble though.


ARoyaleWithCheese

Agree, but it does give Sainz a much better bargaining position, considering he's without a doubt the fastest/most proven available driver. Which then means RB might be willing to compromise and make him a better offer, which they didn't want to do before. Which would make Verstappen/Sainz 2025 way more likely and I'm HYPPPED about that.


BIuMagic

Pérez got stuck behind a drs train leaded by a Haas on an alternative strategy on his first stint. Made a mistake going off track which fkd his tires for the rest of that stint. And on the next one, he got a tear off stuck on his sidepod for the rest of the race. Tough luck.


earthtoannie

If he hadn't qualified 11th in the same car that won the race none of this would have happened


Lira_RBR133

Was it me or Max's race pace was better on mediums?


goku247200

It was. He was 0.2s a lap faster than Norris on mediums but 0.1s per lap slower than Norris on the hards. Even Charles was faster than Max on the hard stint. The Redbull for the past two races seems to hate anything but the mediums. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/YMGJS1qXt8


Lira_RBR133

Thanks for the info man.


ShadowStarX

and Charles was still same pace as Max after the went off except for the last three laps


goku247200

Charles was faster than Max on the Hards by 0.070 seconds. Not much to affect the race results but Ferrari and McLaren both were faster than the Redbull on the hards. This could be down to redbull having zero data on the Hards given that they had only 3 laps worth of practice time on the Hards in fp3. Plus this has been a McLaren track since 2022 given that Lando finished p3 albeit with Leclerc making an error and going off.


ShadowStarX

sure the Red Bull had zero data on hards which meant the setup was based on mediums but if they made a setup that accounts for all compounds, Max would not have been cruising as hard on the C4 mediums I think


goku247200

Fair point. But it's also true that for the last two races the RB20 is loving the mediums for that specific track but is unpredictable on the softs and outright dislikes the hards. Max said his hard tyres were done after 10 laps.


ShadowStarX

it seems that Red Bull's favorite tire is the C4, McLaren's is the C3 and Ferrari's is the C2


goku247200

Exactly. Unusual behaviour this. Especially vs last year. These cars have a narrower setup window now it seems with dirty air also coming back into play.


HelloSlowly

The Curious Case of Aston Button. Performance…just backwards.


MrMSUK

McLaren 0.45 sec faster than the works Merc team. Fascinating.


ZappySnap

Actually 0.26, since they took HAM instead of RUS, who is faster according to this.


Mysterious_Turnip310

Russell's time is skewed a lot by his new tyres at the end.


ZappySnap

Yes, but if you look at the 50% box it’s still a little faster than Hamilton.


Ashbones15

He did a two stop which would make his average pace faster (although it's a slower strat)


ZappySnap

I understand that, but lots of stuff affects the data. I just am pointing out that they skipped over Russell and took Hamilton’s slower average pace.


Unique_Expression_93

Because it makes no sense to compare 2 stop with 1 stop pace. Obviously 2 stop will have an advantage.


Ashbones15

I mean Russell only did the second stop because they were in no man's land. It wasn't even an attempted strategy to do something


pseudoRndNbr

Nah, Russell was on the limit tire wise and the simulation predicted that he'd run out of tires 3-4 laps before the end. So it wasn't just because they were in no man's land. Toto explained it in a post-race interview.


i_love_massive_dogs

Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren all being within a tenth could make for a banger Monaco qualifying.


NoshitSherlock68

The Ferrari is awful in low speed.


Walaii

Ferrari is awful in quali, not in low speed. China was a set up issue, but they just throw time away in every sector 1 in quali.


Steveisnotmyname_

Still after the upgrade?


Beneficial_Star_6009

Their tyre warmup issues on qualifying fuel levels is a big problem if it happens again in Monte-Carlo.


RepresentativeLoud53

No , it was actually fine


Big_Brief7847

I think this weekend (we’ll see about next) McLaren has the best qualifying pace. However I think the two McLaren drivers lack a bit of ability in qualifying compared to Max and Charles. Ferarri looked better than they have recently in qualifying but still had issues with tyre warm up when it mattered, however even with issues in that opening sector it was the smallest gap Charles had to p1 this season, barring Miami (which was a mess) If Ferarri can fine tune these upgrades and get the tyres good on the day then hopefully Charles can pull out some home race, street circuit magic. The margins are small, I’d probably bet on Max, then one of the Mclarens, then Charles to take pole. If Max takes pole and car is good than i’d bet on Perez to do well, but i don’t he can take pole over Max Carlos was struggling this weekend so we’ll see he if he can keep up with Charles in Monaco


RallerZZ

So McLaren have actually managed to catch up to Red Bull... Was not expecting it this season, let alone this early in it. But the gaps are so close that different circuits can turn the tide to any of the top 3 teams, though I think if Red Bull have a clean weekend from the get go, they will still be ahead.


thexavikon

I still think Redbull has the advantage overall. But they had setup issues this week. I hope I'm wrong. We will know for sure though if this trend continues.


casper707

Yup I still think it’s set up issues the last couple faces rather then the boys in orange completely closing the gap. They are no doubt the closest to rb but I think rbs just had some issues dialing that car in and the 2 sprints in a row probably exasperated the issue. Would absolutely love to be wrong though


elcolerico

Constructers Championship is not very certain though. Perez might be the 6th best driver in the top 3 teams.


banned20

If he doesn't s\*\*\* the bed and finish top 6, i believe RB would win the WCC given that Ferrari & Mclaren will take points from each other.


aneiq_1

If the cars close up to how they are today, then I have no doubt Perez will finish 6th in the championship. Ultimately he’s too inconsistent and not quick enough to compete against the Ferrari and McLaren drivers in equalish cars.


thekhaos

I can’t see Piastri catching up but he could end up fighting Sainz for P4/P5


MountainJuice

He's easily 6th best of the top 6. But that's still more than enough. If Max finishes 1st and Perez 6th every race then it's 33 points, the same as someone else could get from 2nd and 3rd. And they already have a decent cushion. It's not out of the realm of possibility they lose the constructors but I'm not getting the excitement over how likely it is.


Jazano107

Might be? Lol


Unique_Expression_93

Are there even doubts about it?


Impossible-Buy-6247

Too small sample set.


AshKetchumDaJobber

I think the races will either be like this or China where RB is just “lol catch me guys” the cars are pretty much RB clones so they have the same relative weaknesses


ShadowStarX

the SF24 isn't fully an RB clone it has a different suspension layout and cooling system


kkraww

I love how everyone started this season with "more max domination boring season not gonna watch" and now we have this where he lost last race and only won by 7 tenths this race(with no SC shenanigans)


grumpher05

Everyone is quick to turn off the tv, not realising that if the racing does start they're gonna miss it


Driving_Seat

That’s a very right split compared to the past two and a half seasons. I’m looking forward to the development battle. Maybe the cost cap and development cap are finally harming red bull?


LeWigre

Well also just the further away you get from when they last introduced a new big set of regulations, the harder it is to stay ahead.


Driving_Seat

It hasn’t been the case. I think it’s just the budget and aero caps doing their job


LeWigre

What do you mean it hasnt been the case? Thats how its always worked in F1.


Driving_Seat

It hasn’t been the case for the last 20+ years


LeWigre

You and I are watching different sports I think.


Driving_Seat

Maybe you’re a new fan and that explains it. The only way you think that is if you didn’t see the Ferrari dominance, red bull dominance and Mercedes dominance.


LetsgoImpact

The infighting is starting to catch up to them much sooner than most expected, it seems...


Driving_Seat

I doubt any of this is caused by the chaos in the leadership. Those effects will be seen in a much longer time span


sammyGG00

Piastri needs to get that 2 tenths pace if he want to challenge Norris in race. Biggest ouch gap for me is VER-PER (expected) OCO-GAS (gasly is nowere)


The_Chozen_1_

Gasly is ahead in the graphic OP posted?


Protozoo_epilettico

There might actually be a fight the wccat least with Perez dropping the ball


Rocket-888

Only if either Ferrari or McLaren become clear 2nd force with the ability to beat Max in at least a few races here and there. McLaren only caught up by one point to Red Bull this weekend despite Perez shitting the bed completely.


Chino_Kawaii

if Mclaren keeps this trajectory we could have a championship battle on yes, I am smoking major copium rn


Sorry-Series-3504

Share some of that with the rest of us 🥲


Chino_Kawaii

well, if you took it very literally, given the difference in pace for Mclaren in Bahrain vs now, they would be dominating halfway through the year what could be interesting is the constructors battle, because Perez is nowhere now


Dexterus

Are the outlaps and fuckup laps removed (Per/Ham losing 5s and Leclerc losing 1s going on gravel?


_George_Costanza

In trying to determine what this means for the relative pace of the cars, you basically need to make an internal adjustment for how you think the drivers’ race paces compare. This and Miami suggest that, unless Lando is getting more out of it than Max, McLaren is the car to beat. Frankly, you could easily make an argument for the Ferrari over the Red Bull as well if you think Max has more than eight hundredths over Charles. The combined driver and car performances have really converged these past couple of weeks in a very exciting way.


_airsick_lowlander_

I’m new here, but how did Lando not get a penalty for continually driving outside the white lines? There were several shots those last 10 laps with him exceeding the track limits. Isn’t that an unfair advantage?


crubeens

I think it was the wider white line they were monitoring track limits on, there were only 11 track limit violations altogether today, 1 of them was Lando


ShadowStarX

3 of them were Max


Mysterious_Turnip310

He didn't though. He had one track limits violation all race. It's impossible to tell from onboard shots if they are actually over the line or not.


_airsick_lowlander_

This isn’t from onboard shots. I just rewatched laps 55/56/57, I see three instances of Lando’s car outside of track, with white in between tires and asphalt. F1 app doesn’t allow screenshots but see for yourself.


Mysterious_Turnip310

Are you sure you're looking at the right lines? He wasn't outside the ones they were measuring the track limits on. Again, he only got one track limit violation all race.


DrVonD

They repainted some of the white lines to be thicker after FP2 I think.


slyfox1908

The white lines are in bounds.


_airsick_lowlander_

Got it, I think that’s my confusion. Does it differ by track and is there a standardization across all courses what is considered in or out?


poptubas

All four tires have to be outside the white lines for it to be considered a track limits violation, same for all races on the calendar.


themadpants

This was a change made for this race weekend, due to the addition of the gravel traps being there to punish anyone who went out of bounds.


AshKetchumDaJobber

Drivers need to stop letting max getting out of DRS at the beginning of the race. Just gotta drive faster


Mark4231

Expect a job offer from Ferrari/McLaren any moment now


Manasvi6944

He deserves way more, i.e. an Alpine drive


Themindoffish

Genius idea. Why don't the drivers do this? Are they stupid?


Axzuel

"Just win lmao"


kzzzzzzzzzz28

Dirty air is a factor as well. it seems like the 2024 cars are more affected by it than their predecessors. Taking pole from Max/Jumping him at the start itself is the best possible idea.


Walaii

This, 100%. Max is getting away at the starts because he is the only one in clean air. The first step to beating Red Bull is to qualify ahead of them. Everybody is clearly struggling in dirty air. Oscar first with Carlos then Charles. Charles catching up to Lando and ending up on the grass after a couple laps of following.


LeWigre

I like how you write this like usually qualifying ahead of the other team isnt a win condition but you figured it out for this very specific scenario. You do know they're all trying to outqualify them, right?


zacharymc1991

Are they stupid


Impossible-Buy-6247

Just put it in a gear lower and stamp the throttle!


FrostyBoom

Exactly! Why don't they start faster? Are they stupid?


No-Student-9678

My goodness, why couldn't I have thought of that?!


Bart-86

I think McLaren and Ferrari are too conservatives on tires. I don’t think Norris would have catch Verstappen if Leclerc didn’t push him.


MountainJuice

He said he had no pace, he wasn't intentionally losing time. The tyres just came back to him.


Big_Brief7847

It was so weird to watch, from not that far into the race, Charles was consistently cutting down the gap to Lando. He almost got it down when Lando pitted and poor Ferarri strategy left Charles behind Lando with another big gap to go. When Charles was catching up to Lando was gaining on Max a bit but it really sped up at the end. It didn’t seem intentional for him to have been saving this extra pace. Lando had the strongest first 10 laps and strongest last 10 laps but Charles seemed easily faster in the middle of the race.


MountainJuice

That’s a stretch. Charles was faster for about 5 laps before the pits and about 10 laps after. Probably cooked his tyres a bit pushing too hard, rather than it being genuine sustainable pace. Never once looked like actually threatening Lando.


frankie9324

"Never once looked like actually threatening Lando".. Lol, you seem to have watch a different race. If Charles would've not went full yolo mode into the grass he would've passed Norris. That's when his tyres got fucked and couldn't push anymore.


Mysterious_Turnip310

Has it occurred to you that he took too much out of his tyres trying to catch Lando in the first place?


Big_Brief7847

if Charles had managed to pass him and Lando didn’t have the huge jump in pace he’d probably have had the pace to stay ahead. So if Ferarri assumed Lando wasn’t going to suddenly get so much life in his tires, it was definitely the right call for Charles to push. Assuming he did no damage to his tires over the grass and that was just his normal degrading, his pace would’ve been strong enough to hold back Lando (not Max Chasing Lando pace i’m just talking about what Ferarri would’ve assumed his pace was) on this very hard to overtake circuit. If he didn’t manage to overtake, he’d still be able to cling onto that DRS and be right there if Lando made a mistake. Charles had built up a good gap to Oscar that it was safe to push his tyres and it was the right strategy call based on what Ferarri knew. And we can probably assume that Charles stopped pushing when the gap grew to over 3s


Mysterious_Turnip310

You're waffling with a lot of ifs and buts there. Reality is, Charles pushed harder early on than Lando did and it cost him later on. Stella confirmed after the race that Lando was managing tyres early in that final stint. He was not actually flat out. McLaren were seeing it on the data and telling Lando that on the radio - he didn't believe them because he assumed everyone was driving with similar management to him. His engineer was literally on the radio telling him not to worry because they knew the performance would come to him later in the race. They even detailed why to him, and what the others were doing compared to him that was working their tyres harder. Go and listen for yourself if you don't believe me.


Big_Brief7847

I’m not trying to say Charles had better pace than Lando i mean it’s obvious he didn’t. But while Lando was managing his tires in the earlier stint he couldn’t find pace while Charles was gaining on him, which he complained many times about. I’m saying that Ferarri and Charles pushed Charles’s tyres to catch Lando. But i’m saying that that was the right strategy call. It worked out well even with a mistake from Charles, keeping the gap with Oscar significant. And he managed to catch Lando and would’ve stuck reasonably near him if Lando hasn’t unlocked more pace, and would’ve been there if Lando made a mistake. I’m not talking about the ifs and buts of what could have happened but of the perspective of Charles and Ferarri when choosing to push his tyres and even after his pace didn’t drop all too much


SommWineGuy

Nah, even without that he wasn't going to get there.


AlexTheMacedonian

Sainz looked a lot slower than 0.24s


ShadowStarX

there are some laps which are usually removed from the calculations like for Pérez, the off-road adventure was removed, but not its indirect consequences (without that correction, Pérez would be like 8-9 tenths down, not 6.5-7)


sarge019

Maxs tyres were considerably younger than Norris so should have had much more pace.


DrVonD

According to the lap timers they were only 2 laps newer.


deathray1611

I knew he was always washed #NOTmyGOAT