Rosberg was a qualifying specialist. Dude could beat prime Hamilton in quali pace over a season. Few could come close to that.
Dude is underrated as fuck. Held his own against such talents as Schumacher and Hamilton, even best Hamilton to a title.
The guy was pretty good, I'd say. Deserving world champion.
Ya holy over rating Batman. Carlos has been doing good but he isn’t “better” than literal WDCs who have also driven very aggressively with better results even before being WDC.
Also Lando?? Love the kid but putting him in the same tier as Max is just ?????
yeah Sainz doesn't have anything over peak Rosberg or Button
everyone feels the need to talk highly of him because Ferrari unfairly dropped him, but let's not get ahead of ourselves
Max is a tier of his own right now but I don’t see any tangible reasons why Lando is a tier below Leclerc.
Most of the arguments I see just boil down to vibes “he doesn’t have that IT factor!” or referencing how Sainz beat baby Norris half a decade ago.
All these talk are worthless when drivers are in different cars but objectively and bit opinionated, the order is max, charles and lando and I do see the difference in all three drivers in that order, currently.
I mean this season anyway i would definitely buy Lando a tier below Charles despite a lot of popular opinion.
He got his win and he’s done some amazing driving this season, but even in the weekend he won it, it’s the little things. Bad qualifying in Miami, that terrible china sprint, and now he’s been out qualified by his teammate twice, while having no major issues.
Yeah Oscar is good right now, but he’s still making mistakes and missing pole, so why is Lando a step behind again.
I think Charles and Lando are both very good in race pace, and it’s hard to measure with different cars and different tyre treatment from those cars.
But Charles race pace has been near perfect this season so if there is a difference, it’s marginal.
But Charles has a clear edge on qualifying. That’s the sort of edge that can win you championships against tough competition.
As teammates, Hamilton had 32 victories, 55 podium finishes and qualified ahead of Rosberg 42 times. Rosberg had 22 victories, 50 podium finishes and qualified ahead of Hamilton 36 times (46%).
Against Motherfucking PRIME Lewis Hamilton.
The disrespect is insane and his take is incredibly stupid. Rosberg is one of the greatest drivers of the 21st century
Rosberg has seemingly always been a bit underrated it seems even among f1 circles.. check out the 2016 team principles’s driver rankings for example and you’ll see that the despite even winning the championship, he was ranked 3rd.
It's funny that in 2010-12, he obviously beat Schumacher but at that point everyone dismissed that as Schumacher not being what he was - where Hamilton then appeared and it became clear Schumacher *had been* rather good.
That’s because of how much hype Max generated and also because it was only a shocking run of luck and reliability combined with Nico effectively destroying his ability to compete ever again that gave Nico that title. Malaysia alone turned that title. If I remember right Lewis had like 6 mechanical issues that season and Nico had none.
And when Nico was forced out of F1 with exhaustion, Lewis got back up after all that in 2016 and beat Vettel 2 years running.
Still did better against Lewis than any other teammate, but 2014-2016 would have been 3 tight but comfortable titles on the bounce without mitigating circumstances.
Lewis doesn't get near enough credit for going from 2 gruelling title fights, and 1 "straightforward" title fight against a driver of Rosberg's calibre to two title fights with Vettel in a resurgent Ferrari. 19 and 20 was basically time off, and then straight back into perhaps the most gruelling title fight Vs Max in 21.
Rosberg retired and Vettel was never the same after 2018 probably because the pressures drivers are under in title fights, and Lewis came out of these dived into whatever the fuck 2021 was lol.
He even came into F1 surrounded by fire in 07 and 08 as well
We talk about drivers having that title mentality, fighting for the title and feeling that pressure on your ass all the time, Lewis makes dealing with that shit effortless
No.
What happened is that he broke up from his long term girlfriend, and — more consequentially — told his Dad he no longer wanted him as team manager
The latter was from a desire to have a more normal father-son relationship, and a more professional driver-manager relationship.
In the long run it proved to be the right decision, but in the short term it caused a bit of agro between Hamilton and his family.
Collectively it all seemed to get to him, at a point in his career where it seemed he still wasn’t good at compartmentalising and could be affected by previous races or personal tensions.
I’d put Charles at a similar level personally, he’s gone toe to toe with Max every time he’s had the car and has taken a step up in consistency starting mid last year. But agree overall the podcast massively disrespects Rosberg.
Only a few years ago you couldn't mention Rosberg without the usual "he got lucky" shite. It's nice to see the narrative has finally changed and he's getting the credit he deserves.
He did get lucky but he’s also WDC material as clearly shown with his battle with Lewis Hamilton.
You can clearly see how Checo against Max doesn’t even come a mile close…. Being basically always fighting with prime Lewis is a testament to how good he was. Bottas wasn’t also anywhere near.
The disrespect Rosberg gets still baffles me to this day.
Rosberg was an elite junior and hit the ground running in F1 with Williams draging that car to places it had no right being. He did favorably against Schumacher winning Mercedes's first race and went toe to toe with Lewis for 4 seasons. 3 of which were title races. 2 of which went to the last race and 1 of which he won.
And Button beat Alonso and Hamilton while winning a WDC.
Not to mention he handily dispatched Perez.
It's a bit silly to put Sainz in the same category as Button or Rosberg who could beat the greats across a season.
Not to mention, he was faster than Trulli while the team was favouring Jarno (Flavio HATED Jenson), the same Trulli who made Alonso WORK to become team leader. He then demolished Villeneuve at a team he didn't know yet, and was never beaten by a teammate (with the exception of 2008, when the Honda was a dog but Barrichello pulled out one of his wet weather masterclasses to get a podium, but Jenson was usually much faster throughout the year), until he was up against Hamilton, and managed to beat him once as well
True, while Sainz has beaten a Leclerc with multiple bad luck in 2021 (getting podiums everytime he gets a DNF), he couldn't even beat him during the season they had a gap in adaptability in 2023.
I mean, tbf, Sainz did beat Leclerc in 2021, points wise at least (I am aware of the luck that was involved there). 2022 was horrid, but in 2023 he finished only 6 points behind. And Leclerc absolutely is a top tier, championship title material AT LEAST, he doesn't need an F1 title to show that.
And he did beat Lando in the two seasons they were together at McLaren, altho those were Lando's first two seasons tbf. And what was said about Leclerc I apply also to Lando.
Do I agree with Barretto then? Nah. Sainz is not better than Button or especially Rosberg. But I wouldn't say he is far behind either. I always felt like Sainz is like a bit worse Button - mainly because of his comparatively lacking wet weather ability and feel for changing conditions.
>And Button beat Alonso
To be fair, that barely counts, because the 2015 McHonda was a piece of absolute garbage that was a roulette if the engine would blow up or not.
If Rosberg was up against a no name rather than Lewis he would be a 6 or 7 time world champion and would be hailed as one of the GOATS.
Instead the resentment over 2016 runs so strong that everyone just shits on him consistently, and minimizes what he did.
Like who's 3rd in wins and poles since 2014?
Rosberg. And he hasn't raced in 8 years..
Bottas had what, 5 wins and 10 poles in 3 years, and people rate him for some reason.
> Bottas had what, 5 wins and 10 poles in 3 years, and people rate him for some reaso
Bottas has a lot of support from Finland but Germany lost interest in F1 after Schumacher so Rosberg never really lit the fire with the fans there.
I think that's why Rosberg doesn't get as much appreciation as you'd expect.
To be fair, if a 4-time WDC driving for Red Bull couldn't keep Germans interested, I seriously doubt anyone could, not even Schumacher himself after he came back. It's still kind of a strange market.
I'll fully admit Rosberg is a wet blanket and had no personality back then.
Bottas was riding the kimi wave with the dgaf attitude and funny answers to questions.
I feel like there’s so much of personality contest vs talent in how drivers are perceived by fans. Which is why popular personalities like Ricciardo, Senna etc. get crazily overrated (no shade to either fan groups). But folks like Rosberg, Button, even Prost etc. were kinda overlooked.
Anyone who overlooks Prost should have their opinion immediately discounted. He is one of the 5-6 greatest drivers of all-time and is arguably in the Top 3. He very nearly won 8 Driver's Titles.
Tbh I’ve been guilty of it too. There’s just so much Senna-Prost content that it can influence your views. I bet that the upcoming Senna show on Netflix won’t really be very Prost friendly either.
I was guilty of it too once for the exact same reason. Senna is an enigmatic and charismatic figure, and he's been deified due to the tragic circumstances of his death. It's hard not to be taken in by that. Prost wasn't nearly as "sexy" - in personality or driving style.
But my opinion was rightly discounted by older, wiser fans than me who actually watched them race and knew what they were talking about. It made me go back and watch those seasons (what I could find) and read about Prost's other championships and his pre-Senna years and what a metronomic driver he was.
We all start from a place of ignorance though. As long as you're willing to critically analyze your viewpoints, educate yourself and be willing to back them up - in my case learning that I was wrong - I think that's always healthy growth. I sure wish Prost's relationship with Senna post-career would get better treatment though.
Great question. He was runner-up 4 times:
* 1983 - Finished 2 points behind Nelson Piquet.
* 1984 - Finished half a point behind teammate Niki Lauda, despite winning 7 races to Niki's 5 and tying Jim Clark for the most wins in a single season. The half-point was awarded because of a controversial red flagged rainy Monaco GP that Prost was leading.
* 1988 - Lost to Senna by 3 points despite outscoring him by 11 points overall because of a controversial scoring system used by F1 at the time where ONLY a driver's best 11 race results are counted towards the WDC. Because of the frequency of DNF's back then, it was felt that taking a driver's best "x" amount of results meant that a championship was less likely to be decided by a technical/engine failure or another driver taking you out. Obviously, that's debatable as to whether that's really true and this system would eventually be scrapped.
* 1990 - Lost to Senna by 7 points after Senna famously crashes into him at turn 1 of Suzuka in the last race of the season. Prost had taken the lead of the start of the race and if he wins, he wins the WDC. Senna crashes him out at Turn 1 to ensure he retains the WDC lead and the championship.
EDITS: For more clarity.
There were several title where he was either off by like 2 points from winning or the archaic points system meant that he lost despite technically having more points (1988)
Not to mention he *only* lost those titles to 3-time WDC winners (Lauda, Senna and Piquet), which itself is either a bizarre coincidence or a further illustration of his insane talent.
Button is especially egregious because he was never really in a top team till he joined Mclaren.
Williams, Benetton then Renault, BAR and Honda were all basically mid pack teams. Honda should have been front runners but just never quite made it, like a lot of manufacturer teams tend to do. Even there he had an occasional win. He scored points 6 times in his debut season.
The Brawn year was such a complete up ending of the established order, but he made it count and that's what champions do.
Was he Lewis? No, but then who is?
Button was pretty closely matched with both Alonso and Hamilton too. Even if we say he's a tier below them, he will largely be forgotten out of F1 fandom. I think the only reason he's still kinda talked about is 2011 Canada (to me, even more than his WC). His heroics in the midfield in 2000s are barely mentioned
When you look at Rosberg vs Hamilton over their four years, they were dead even in dry races, 29-29 in race head to head. Lewis beat him in every wet race (8-0), and that was the difference between the two. But “as good as Lewis Hamilton any time there’s not rain in the forecast” is unbelievably good and well better than Sainz.
He is underrated for same reason Prost is underrated and drivers like Gilles Villeneuve and JPM are overrated. People like spectacular drivers who either win it or bin it, not professors who will finish 2nd four races in a row and capitalize on their teammate's mistakes or misfortunes. Fact that neither most Finns nor most Germans consider him their own also doesn't help.
God JPM has to be one of the most overrated drivers of the last twenty years. Talked so much shit, had one and a half good seasons, then went to NASCAR to do the same thing.
People give Nico too little credit for 2016 since Ham had so many engine issues over the season but you can only compete with what is in front of you. Some hypothetical without Ham starting races at the back and the Malaysia failure tells us nothing. Nico picked up the pieces and won all those races. It’s always, “if this and that didn’t happen” but they did and Nico didn’t fumble any of the races
Plus 2014 nico retired from the lead at silverstone when the title went down to the last race as a result. They were close enough that any little luck would swing it
Few could outqualify a prime Hamilton. Rosberg certainly could. He was within margin to beat him and he did it at times. Dude could really drive. He was such a good driver, that team battle was a joy to watch. I'd love for Pérez to be half as competitive with Verstappen as Rosberg was to Hamilton. It'd be a good season.
His dad gets even more disrespect. alright driver who was a lucky champion is something I hear all the time, when in actuality he was probably the 3rd best driver of the entire decade, other than Prost and Senna.
Rosberg heavily beat Mansell in the same car in 1985, whereas Piquet was very closely matched with him, so I’d definitely rate him above those two. Taking into account Lauda’s whole career I’d rate him above Rosberg (his 1977 and 1978 were particularly impressive), but based solely on their 1980s performance I’d put Rosberg ahead.
Yes and he was great in 1984, but he spent the other years getting badly beat by Prost and unable to outperform Watson, whereas Rosberg was tremendous the entire time he was racing other than 1986.
Alway annoys me when people say Mansell is the best one time champion ever and then in the same breath say Keke is the worst champion ever, despite the fact Rosberg bodied Mansell in the same car in 1985.
And wasn't this "lucky" champion with car that had engine that was heavily outclassed by others. Yeah, reliability is nice, but you wont win F1 in Toyota Corolla.
The Red Flags podcast are awesome but even they admit they got into the sport through DTS. Love them but any opinions regarding pre-2018 F1 are throwaways. Me thinks
For real. I love Jenson, but putting Rosberg at the same level?
I'm sorry, but Jenson got lucky he won a WDC. Rosberg had incredible bad luck that he spent his career against the two greatest drivers of all time and therefor \*only\* got 1.
Jenson also spent most of his career in throughly midfield teams.
After Brawn, he moved to Mclaren who never really recovered from the 2007 spygate fines. Even Lewis wasn't winning championships there.
It's hard to seperate team and driver sometimes, but Jenson got given the equipment to win a championship and went out and did it. Even the midseason slump gets brought up as some kind of gotcha that Jenson was second rate, yet people conveniently ignore the absolutely stellar race in Brazil to go clinch the title when he should have been down and out.
Hard to say if Rosberg was better. He had the defacto best car on the grid for at least 4 seasons, shame the other seat was occupied by probably the best driver ever.
Yeah I absolutely agree. Jenson certainly had areas where he was stronger than Nico but overall Nico was faster and more adaptable.
I could see the argument that Sainz is the same level as Button but I don't think he's on a par with Nico.
On the flip side, Button's no mug - beat Alonso, Villeneuve, and Hamilton across a season. It's silly to put Sainz in the same conversation - he's not shown he can outperform a great over a season.
Yeah, Sainz isn't better than Rosberg. He literally is a Rosberg. He's in that awkward "too good to be a number 2" but also "not quite good enough to be a de facto Number 1" type driver. It's a major part of why he isn't getting the Red Bull drive.
Rosberg absolutely was an elite driver. Do you even know what his junior stats were like or first years before Mercedes? Or how many times he took wins from Lewis? Lewis had a much worse relationship with him than he did with Bottas because Bottas was nowhere near Lewis in qualifying or pace. Rosberg has 20 wins with Mercedes in the hybrid era after 3 years. Bottas only had 10 wins and spent 5 years with them. Any team would've loved to have him as their #1, but no other team was fast enough to win the title. He stayed with Mercedes because he felt that at least once he would beat Hamilton and he did. Never in 100 years of retries would Bottas have been able to beat Lewis.
Nico went against two 7th time WDC's and held his own (yes Lewis was only 3 time back then but still)
He gets so much disrespect for no reason, the man doesn't even start this mud slinging contests and gets dragged through for no reason.
He's saying that Button, Rosberg, and Sainz all fall in to the same category of drivers.
I don't think Sainz is in the same league, though. Put Sainz next to Hamilton instead of Rosberg and Hamilton probably has one extra WDC to his name right now and I doubt Carlos could push Lewis to the same extent Nico did.
That’s a slightly warped view imo.
Jenson was definitely better in 2011 (although i wouldn’t say quicker).
But Hamilton was Better in 2010 and clearly a lot better in 2012, it’s actually a bit baffling how Button actually managed to outscore Hamilton over that period.
The gap between them in quali was something like 0.3% in quali.
Button falls into that category of really really good driver who got into good situations at the right time and capitalised.
At least imo.
Yeah there's a definite tier of drivers who aren't as good as the greats but could beat them over the season if given a couple of breaks. I've not really seen anything to indicate Sainz is in that tier yet, he needs to walk the walk first. FFS Rosberg only marginally lost to prime Hamilton, and Button beat 3 WDCs over a season (Villeneuve, Alonso, Hamilton).
I’m sorry, Nico Rosberg didn’t bumble his way into that 2016 championship. Of course some unfavorable things happened to Lewis Hamilton, but Rosberg is still very talented. Nico Rosberg vs Carlos Sainz, I’m taking Rosberg every single time. Now, had Barretto compared Sainz to Keke Rosberg, maybe I’d agree, even then though…
how much is this man getting paid to say this because being on someone's payroll is the only reasonable option for why he would say this completely unreasonable sentence
the rosberg disrespect is crazy
He also has zero charisma, in fact he has negative charisma, I am always left wondering, as I watch the F1 pre race coverage/weekend warmup etc, how the hell did he get this gig? Like what are the requirements to host on sky TV F1 is it just like anyone can give it a go? Why can't they get people who are actually good on TV instead of Lawwrence and will?
A lot of people are going to say Rosberg beat Lewis to win the 2016 WDC. But actually the most impressive thing was that Rosberg won 7 races in row against prime Lewis Hamilton in the same car.
At the same time, Button was in the right car at the right time and was just better than his teammate in the same car. That could certainly happen to Carlos because he is good enough to do that. Rosberg had to beat a 3 time champion (at the time) so I do think that means a bit more.
I do not think he could do what Max did against Lewis in 2021 and take a car that was back and forth between the fastest and second fastest and win a title tho.
Button finished third in the championship in a BAR Honda behind both Ferraris in 2004. He showed more skill early on than Sainz.
Plenty of good drivers never get to be in the right place at the right time, but still show how good they are.
I like Sainz, but I wouldn't say he is on the level of Button and Rosberg at all right now. Maybe one day it'll click, but it hasn't yet.
Interesting, isn't it. Imagine if people looked at Alonso's record without his two championships. If you looked at his post championship career it might be easy to conclude he isn't that great. Of course we know otherwise.
It's kind of what people do with drivers like Button, when they have similar career stories, only with Alonso his championships came at the front of his career rather than in the middle.
Please don't mistake this for me saying Button was better than Alonso. I'm simply pointing out that people seem more interested in the order in which things happen and that counts massively towards the level of respect they get.
I’m not a Jenson Button fan by any stretch but he was also able to beat Lewis Hamilton as a team mate and more than held his own during their time together in Mclaren. This is just as significant as winning the 09 title IMHO. Sainz has not shown the outright pace or consistency to match Lewis Hamilton in his prime. That’s not saying Sainz is a bad driver, but the most apt way I can describe him is a very poor man’s Jenson Button.
The Nico disrespect is crazy. Man did not go against the two most lauded drivers in the sport while keeping them honest just to be lumped with a solid yet unspectacular driver like Carlos. Nico looked competitive against The Michael and Prime Lewis Hamilton, do we REALLY think Carlos could do that?
Bro also thought we wouldn't notice him sneaking Lando alongside Max and Charles 😭 I'd say Lando *is* on Nico's tier, both of them just a step below the generational talents but being extremely talented.
I like Sainz but I don’t see him being a world champion unless he has a dominant car without a top tier driver next to him. He seems similar in skill to a guy like Webber who at his best can fight for a championship but isn’t necessarily on the same level as a world championship driver. Both Rosberg and Button beat Hamilton at or near the peak of his prime something I struggle to see Sainz accomplishing.
The Jenson Button that beat Vettel to a championship, who has beaten world champions Villeneuve, Hamilton, and Alonso as teammates??
Vs (I love him to death) Carlos Sainz??
Lawrence, lay off the neon shoes, they are melting your brain.
Rosberg continuing to get dragged through the mud for the sin of not being as good as Lewis Hamilton.
What exactly have Lando or Charles done so far to justify saying either of them is a definitively better driver than either of Rosberg or Button?
Lmao i remember when the Red Flags guys first announced that Barretto was going to be a guest on the podcast they asked people on twitter what questions they should ask him and quite literally everyone in the replies just said "ask him why is he such a Sainz dickrider/how much is the Sainz family paying him" and literally no other questions and then they had to delete the tweet
Genuine question. Why is Sainz rated so high all of a sudden? I mean he is a great driver but isn’t he the same guy who finished 5th during a 2 team battle in 2022, and 7th last season while being called better than Charles throughout the entire season.
And yeah he has his moments but his normal days on track never looked something extraordinary and even his greatest moments don’t feel worthy to be compared to Rosberg, or Button /s.
Britney literally beat Hamilton at peak (with every possible weapon he could target at him)
and Jenson did all-time-greats in a couple of races (canada 2011).
Carlos never showed any sainz (sorry) of pure excellence imo.
He is good, he can be very good sometimes but even if ferarri would have been the RB the last years, I wouldn't bet my money on him dominating Chuck
Out of all the drivers mentioned in this quote I’d rate Sainz by far the least. Don’t get me wrong he’s quite good but comparing him to 2 WDCs? What has he done to even be considered close? Especially in comparison to Rosberg who on his day was terrifyingly fast. Sainz isn’t one of those absolute top talents. Hell I’d question if even Lando is quite up there but Sainz ain’t even close.
What an insane take. Both Rosberg and Button are world champions. I think Sainz is great and all of the driver’s listed are championship material, but to put down Rosberg and Button is ridiculous.
Not saying Sainz is better than Rosberg or Button, but saying he is worse because he’s never won a championship isn’t really fair. Sainz has never driven a car as good as the 2009 Brawn or 2014-16 Mercedes, even if he was the best driver on the grid he’s never had the machinery to win a title.
2022? While Leclerc was fighting for wins and scooped P2 in the championship, Sainz finished below Russell and almost below Ham who had one of his worst years
Rosberg is Charles Barkley with a ring. He was going toe-to-toe with that generation's MJ for years and he won a single season off him fair and square. I wish more people understand that cause he deserves that much respect.
I also wish we got DTS in 2016 cause that would have been the best season for all the drama and the racetrack action. And Rosberg walking into the sunset as he announced his retirement would've been a bomb finale.
In addition to being world champions, Button and Rosberg have both once beaten Hamilton in his prime in the same car. This is a serious undersell of how good they both were.
2011 Button is one of the most underrated seasons in my lifetime.
Barretto's comments are almost always useless slander or pure rumor. I can't stand the guy and genuinely have no idea why he is employed in this series.
Who knows what would have happened if Rosberg didnt retire. He did win that year.
So saying Carlos is better is absurd.
Carlos is great but he hasnt proved to be Rosberg kind of great
Sainz isn't even in the same spectrum as Button, let alone Rosberg. Rosberg was the one who could make Hamilton sweat and beat him on his best days and stayed close enough at his worst. Button was not one of the greats but took '09 with both hands and being able to win a WDC is a big achievement in itself.
Sainz is a firm top 8 driver in the current F1 line-up but not in the top 5. Also putting Max, Lando and Charles in the same tier is bs. I'm a Leclerc fan but Lando and Charles have a lot to prove before coming anywhere near Verstappen's level of driving. Lando and Charles are error prone, Verstappen just drove 2 faultless seasons and also beat a prime Hamilton in the season before that.
Stupid take Lawrence.
just say no to the rosberg slander. his 2016 is still one of the most ridiculous seasons ever, basically killed himself and pushed himself beyond his limits to defeat the GOAT at the peak of lewis' powers
Oof I mean I love sainz but man better than Button? I'm not sure about that. They are very similar drivers I would say but you look at the "radio rewind" Playlist on YouTube and half of it is a Jenson absolute masterclass. Seriously he's just insane in the chaos
What do you mean better than Rosberg? Rosberg was an incredible talent and F1 sorely misses his talent. Just because people didn't like the merc dominance doesn't change this fact.
Barretto clearly has difficulty to evaluate drivers. Putting Lando, Charles and Max into same pool is insane and saying Carlos is better than Nico and Jenson is another level of insane.
Rosberg is I think better then Lando and Sainz. As is Button.
Max is tier above Charles and especially Lando, though both could easily be champions with good car. Interested to see Leclerc vs Hamilton next year, think he could smash him to bits, many underrate him but nobody beat Sainz as easily as Leclerc (Sainz beat Norris twice, was convincing in race pace and is just not there against Leclerc).
Thıs is Rosberg and Button slander.
Right? These dudes have the ring. Carlos has a few race wins, total.
and one of them was partnered with hamilton of all people
Reubens was no slouch himself. I can't say with a straight face that Sainz has ever been better than him.
Both are and they hold up against him very well
i meant when rosberg won the chip but yeah button is quality and did well against ham
Both were
Uhm both of them were partnered with Hamilton…
Ring? This isn't the NFL or the NBA... yet
Rosberg was a qualifying specialist. Dude could beat prime Hamilton in quali pace over a season. Few could come close to that. Dude is underrated as fuck. Held his own against such talents as Schumacher and Hamilton, even best Hamilton to a title. The guy was pretty good, I'd say. Deserving world champion.
Ya holy over rating Batman. Carlos has been doing good but he isn’t “better” than literal WDCs who have also driven very aggressively with better results even before being WDC. Also Lando?? Love the kid but putting him in the same tier as Max is just ?????
yeah Sainz doesn't have anything over peak Rosberg or Button everyone feels the need to talk highly of him because Ferrari unfairly dropped him, but let's not get ahead of ourselves
This is Max and Charles slander. Lando isn't as talented as they are. Nice guy..lots of fun...but not as gifted as Max and Charles
Max is a tier of his own right now but I don’t see any tangible reasons why Lando is a tier below Leclerc. Most of the arguments I see just boil down to vibes “he doesn’t have that IT factor!” or referencing how Sainz beat baby Norris half a decade ago.
All these talk are worthless when drivers are in different cars but objectively and bit opinionated, the order is max, charles and lando and I do see the difference in all three drivers in that order, currently.
I mean this season anyway i would definitely buy Lando a tier below Charles despite a lot of popular opinion. He got his win and he’s done some amazing driving this season, but even in the weekend he won it, it’s the little things. Bad qualifying in Miami, that terrible china sprint, and now he’s been out qualified by his teammate twice, while having no major issues. Yeah Oscar is good right now, but he’s still making mistakes and missing pole, so why is Lando a step behind again. I think Charles and Lando are both very good in race pace, and it’s hard to measure with different cars and different tyre treatment from those cars. But Charles race pace has been near perfect this season so if there is a difference, it’s marginal. But Charles has a clear edge on qualifying. That’s the sort of edge that can win you championships against tough competition.
If there's British sporting talent, you can generally expect them to be rated a few pegs higher than they actually are.
The same guy is putting Carlos above Button tbf
Button may be british but he clearly aint baretto’s friend.
Not very fair. Follow any national press and they support their own. It's not uniquely British.
As teammates, Hamilton had 32 victories, 55 podium finishes and qualified ahead of Rosberg 42 times. Rosberg had 22 victories, 50 podium finishes and qualified ahead of Hamilton 36 times (46%). Against Motherfucking PRIME Lewis Hamilton. The disrespect is insane and his take is incredibly stupid. Rosberg is one of the greatest drivers of the 21st century
Insane disrespect for Rosberg. Only driver currently that could stand against prime Hamilton both in speed and mental strength is Max.
Rosberg has seemingly always been a bit underrated it seems even among f1 circles.. check out the 2016 team principles’s driver rankings for example and you’ll see that the despite even winning the championship, he was ranked 3rd.
It's funny that in 2010-12, he obviously beat Schumacher but at that point everyone dismissed that as Schumacher not being what he was - where Hamilton then appeared and it became clear Schumacher *had been* rather good.
That’s because of how much hype Max generated and also because it was only a shocking run of luck and reliability combined with Nico effectively destroying his ability to compete ever again that gave Nico that title. Malaysia alone turned that title. If I remember right Lewis had like 6 mechanical issues that season and Nico had none. And when Nico was forced out of F1 with exhaustion, Lewis got back up after all that in 2016 and beat Vettel 2 years running. Still did better against Lewis than any other teammate, but 2014-2016 would have been 3 tight but comfortable titles on the bounce without mitigating circumstances.
Lewis doesn't get near enough credit for going from 2 gruelling title fights, and 1 "straightforward" title fight against a driver of Rosberg's calibre to two title fights with Vettel in a resurgent Ferrari. 19 and 20 was basically time off, and then straight back into perhaps the most gruelling title fight Vs Max in 21. Rosberg retired and Vettel was never the same after 2018 probably because the pressures drivers are under in title fights, and Lewis came out of these dived into whatever the fuck 2021 was lol. He even came into F1 surrounded by fire in 07 and 08 as well We talk about drivers having that title mentality, fighting for the title and feeling that pressure on your ass all the time, Lewis makes dealing with that shit effortless
Jenson Button 2010-2012 was statistically his greatest teammate looking at the points tally over their 3 seasons. Button outscored Lewis 672-657.
Isn't 2011 Lewis's worst year by some margin?
Yep. He actually outscored Button over 2010 and 2012, but Button outscored him so much in 2011 that he actually comes out ahead over the 3 seasons.
Didn’t a lot of people say Lewis’s fame got to his head in 2011 and it affected his driving that year?
No. What happened is that he broke up from his long term girlfriend, and — more consequentially — told his Dad he no longer wanted him as team manager The latter was from a desire to have a more normal father-son relationship, and a more professional driver-manager relationship. In the long run it proved to be the right decision, but in the short term it caused a bit of agro between Hamilton and his family. Collectively it all seemed to get to him, at a point in his career where it seemed he still wasn’t good at compartmentalising and could be affected by previous races or personal tensions.
This. Prime era Rosberg would probably be the second best driver on this year's grid.
I’d put Charles at a similar level personally, he’s gone toe to toe with Max every time he’s had the car and has taken a step up in consistency starting mid last year. But agree overall the podcast massively disrespects Rosberg.
Only a few years ago you couldn't mention Rosberg without the usual "he got lucky" shite. It's nice to see the narrative has finally changed and he's getting the credit he deserves.
He did get lucky but he’s also WDC material as clearly shown with his battle with Lewis Hamilton. You can clearly see how Checo against Max doesn’t even come a mile close…. Being basically always fighting with prime Lewis is a testament to how good he was. Bottas wasn’t also anywhere near.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity" and all that. Every WDC has some amount of luck involved.
Exactly. I cannot stand barretto. He's a gossip man who stares at people without making what he interprets entertaining in the slightest.
Wins in 2024 Carlos Sainz: 1 Nico Rosberg: 0 Jenson Burton: 0 The math checks out
Wins since 2017: Sainz: 3 Rosberg: 0 Button: 0 I don't know guys, seems like this Sainz dude has the number of both Rosberg and Button.
Nico Rosberg has one win this year as a team owner 🤷♂️
Perfect commentating in 2024 Carlos Sainz: 0 Jenson Button: 0 Nico Rosberg: 1
The disrespect Rosberg gets still baffles me to this day. Rosberg was an elite junior and hit the ground running in F1 with Williams draging that car to places it had no right being. He did favorably against Schumacher winning Mercedes's first race and went toe to toe with Lewis for 4 seasons. 3 of which were title races. 2 of which went to the last race and 1 of which he won.
The only driver to beat both Michael Schumacher and Lewis Hamilton in the same car. Sounds like the GOAT to me.
And Button beat Alonso and Hamilton while winning a WDC. Not to mention he handily dispatched Perez. It's a bit silly to put Sainz in the same category as Button or Rosberg who could beat the greats across a season.
Not to mention, he was faster than Trulli while the team was favouring Jarno (Flavio HATED Jenson), the same Trulli who made Alonso WORK to become team leader. He then demolished Villeneuve at a team he didn't know yet, and was never beaten by a teammate (with the exception of 2008, when the Honda was a dog but Barrichello pulled out one of his wet weather masterclasses to get a podium, but Jenson was usually much faster throughout the year), until he was up against Hamilton, and managed to beat him once as well
Yeah, other than Hamilton, Rosberg beat all his teammates except Maaahk Webbuh…but that was his rookie season.
Uhhh Jenson had Ralf Schumacher as a teammate when he was a rookie. And he was also behind Fisichella in 2001
I may have responded to the wrong comment but I was referring to Nico Rosberg.
True, while Sainz has beaten a Leclerc with multiple bad luck in 2021 (getting podiums everytime he gets a DNF), he couldn't even beat him during the season they had a gap in adaptability in 2023.
I mean, tbf, Sainz did beat Leclerc in 2021, points wise at least (I am aware of the luck that was involved there). 2022 was horrid, but in 2023 he finished only 6 points behind. And Leclerc absolutely is a top tier, championship title material AT LEAST, he doesn't need an F1 title to show that. And he did beat Lando in the two seasons they were together at McLaren, altho those were Lando's first two seasons tbf. And what was said about Leclerc I apply also to Lando. Do I agree with Barretto then? Nah. Sainz is not better than Button or especially Rosberg. But I wouldn't say he is far behind either. I always felt like Sainz is like a bit worse Button - mainly because of his comparatively lacking wet weather ability and feel for changing conditions.
>And Button beat Alonso To be fair, that barely counts, because the 2015 McHonda was a piece of absolute garbage that was a roulette if the engine would blow up or not.
That epic grid penalty Button got... Can't forget that beauty.
If Rosberg was up against a no name rather than Lewis he would be a 6 or 7 time world champion and would be hailed as one of the GOATS. Instead the resentment over 2016 runs so strong that everyone just shits on him consistently, and minimizes what he did. Like who's 3rd in wins and poles since 2014? Rosberg. And he hasn't raced in 8 years.. Bottas had what, 5 wins and 10 poles in 3 years, and people rate him for some reason.
If Lewis didn't take the Mercedes seat, the next choice for them was Hulk. Wonder how that would have ended.
> Bottas had what, 5 wins and 10 poles in 3 years, and people rate him for some reaso Bottas has a lot of support from Finland but Germany lost interest in F1 after Schumacher so Rosberg never really lit the fire with the fans there. I think that's why Rosberg doesn't get as much appreciation as you'd expect.
To be fair, if a 4-time WDC driving for Red Bull couldn't keep Germans interested, I seriously doubt anyone could, not even Schumacher himself after he came back. It's still kind of a strange market.
vettel is one of the most popular drivers years after retiring though
Yeah to the F1 world. We're talking about casual German viewers here. F1 killed a ton of interest in the country when it was taken off free TV iirc.
I'll fully admit Rosberg is a wet blanket and had no personality back then. Bottas was riding the kimi wave with the dgaf attitude and funny answers to questions.
I feel like there’s so much of personality contest vs talent in how drivers are perceived by fans. Which is why popular personalities like Ricciardo, Senna etc. get crazily overrated (no shade to either fan groups). But folks like Rosberg, Button, even Prost etc. were kinda overlooked.
Anyone who overlooks Prost should have their opinion immediately discounted. He is one of the 5-6 greatest drivers of all-time and is arguably in the Top 3. He very nearly won 8 Driver's Titles.
Tbh I’ve been guilty of it too. There’s just so much Senna-Prost content that it can influence your views. I bet that the upcoming Senna show on Netflix won’t really be very Prost friendly either.
I was guilty of it too once for the exact same reason. Senna is an enigmatic and charismatic figure, and he's been deified due to the tragic circumstances of his death. It's hard not to be taken in by that. Prost wasn't nearly as "sexy" - in personality or driving style. But my opinion was rightly discounted by older, wiser fans than me who actually watched them race and knew what they were talking about. It made me go back and watch those seasons (what I could find) and read about Prost's other championships and his pre-Senna years and what a metronomic driver he was. We all start from a place of ignorance though. As long as you're willing to critically analyze your viewpoints, educate yourself and be willing to back them up - in my case learning that I was wrong - I think that's always healthy growth. I sure wish Prost's relationship with Senna post-career would get better treatment though.
Genuine question: how 8?
Great question. He was runner-up 4 times: * 1983 - Finished 2 points behind Nelson Piquet. * 1984 - Finished half a point behind teammate Niki Lauda, despite winning 7 races to Niki's 5 and tying Jim Clark for the most wins in a single season. The half-point was awarded because of a controversial red flagged rainy Monaco GP that Prost was leading. * 1988 - Lost to Senna by 3 points despite outscoring him by 11 points overall because of a controversial scoring system used by F1 at the time where ONLY a driver's best 11 race results are counted towards the WDC. Because of the frequency of DNF's back then, it was felt that taking a driver's best "x" amount of results meant that a championship was less likely to be decided by a technical/engine failure or another driver taking you out. Obviously, that's debatable as to whether that's really true and this system would eventually be scrapped. * 1990 - Lost to Senna by 7 points after Senna famously crashes into him at turn 1 of Suzuka in the last race of the season. Prost had taken the lead of the start of the race and if he wins, he wins the WDC. Senna crashes him out at Turn 1 to ensure he retains the WDC lead and the championship. EDITS: For more clarity.
Matter of fact, iirc using the modern points system he would've never ever lost to a teammate
Which is insane considering he's had stronger teammates than anyone else in f1 history
There were several title where he was either off by like 2 points from winning or the archaic points system meant that he lost despite technically having more points (1988)
Not to mention he *only* lost those titles to 3-time WDC winners (Lauda, Senna and Piquet), which itself is either a bizarre coincidence or a further illustration of his insane talent.
Button is especially egregious because he was never really in a top team till he joined Mclaren. Williams, Benetton then Renault, BAR and Honda were all basically mid pack teams. Honda should have been front runners but just never quite made it, like a lot of manufacturer teams tend to do. Even there he had an occasional win. He scored points 6 times in his debut season. The Brawn year was such a complete up ending of the established order, but he made it count and that's what champions do. Was he Lewis? No, but then who is?
Button was pretty closely matched with both Alonso and Hamilton too. Even if we say he's a tier below them, he will largely be forgotten out of F1 fandom. I think the only reason he's still kinda talked about is 2011 Canada (to me, even more than his WC). His heroics in the midfield in 2000s are barely mentioned
I had so much respect for Button moving into Hamiltons McLaren. Everyone wrote him off but he held his own and raised his stock.
That’s just human nature though
Also kind of happening to George now too. He got his due credit at Williams, but not as much as he deserves since the start of his Mercedes stint
He was forecast that podium too
When you look at Rosberg vs Hamilton over their four years, they were dead even in dry races, 29-29 in race head to head. Lewis beat him in every wet race (8-0), and that was the difference between the two. But “as good as Lewis Hamilton any time there’s not rain in the forecast” is unbelievably good and well better than Sainz.
He is underrated for same reason Prost is underrated and drivers like Gilles Villeneuve and JPM are overrated. People like spectacular drivers who either win it or bin it, not professors who will finish 2nd four races in a row and capitalize on their teammate's mistakes or misfortunes. Fact that neither most Finns nor most Germans consider him their own also doesn't help.
God JPM has to be one of the most overrated drivers of the last twenty years. Talked so much shit, had one and a half good seasons, then went to NASCAR to do the same thing.
People give Nico too little credit for 2016 since Ham had so many engine issues over the season but you can only compete with what is in front of you. Some hypothetical without Ham starting races at the back and the Malaysia failure tells us nothing. Nico picked up the pieces and won all those races. It’s always, “if this and that didn’t happen” but they did and Nico didn’t fumble any of the races
Plus 2014 nico retired from the lead at silverstone when the title went down to the last race as a result. They were close enough that any little luck would swing it
And they ignore late season races like in Japan where Hamilton is usually stellar, Rosberg out-qualified and out-raced him.
Few could outqualify a prime Hamilton. Rosberg certainly could. He was within margin to beat him and he did it at times. Dude could really drive. He was such a good driver, that team battle was a joy to watch. I'd love for Pérez to be half as competitive with Verstappen as Rosberg was to Hamilton. It'd be a good season.
His dad gets even more disrespect. alright driver who was a lucky champion is something I hear all the time, when in actuality he was probably the 3rd best driver of the entire decade, other than Prost and Senna.
You'd rate him above Lauda, Piquet and Mansell?
I don't think Lauda considered himself that good in the 80s. He also rated Rosberg quite highly.
Rosberg heavily beat Mansell in the same car in 1985, whereas Piquet was very closely matched with him, so I’d definitely rate him above those two. Taking into account Lauda’s whole career I’d rate him above Rosberg (his 1977 and 1978 were particularly impressive), but based solely on their 1980s performance I’d put Rosberg ahead.
Asking the real questions.
Piquet and Mansell absolutely. Lauda of the 80s yes.
Lauda of the 80s won a world championship beating Alain Prost though
Yes and he was great in 1984, but he spent the other years getting badly beat by Prost and unable to outperform Watson, whereas Rosberg was tremendous the entire time he was racing other than 1986.
Above Mansell and Piquet for sure. Declines happen but when Keke was in his prime he proved he had what it takes to take down both Piquet and Mansell.
Alway annoys me when people say Mansell is the best one time champion ever and then in the same breath say Keke is the worst champion ever, despite the fact Rosberg bodied Mansell in the same car in 1985.
And wasn't this "lucky" champion with car that had engine that was heavily outclassed by others. Yeah, reliability is nice, but you wont win F1 in Toyota Corolla.
The Andy Murray of F1
The Red Flags podcast are awesome but even they admit they got into the sport through DTS. Love them but any opinions regarding pre-2018 F1 are throwaways. Me thinks
For real. I love Jenson, but putting Rosberg at the same level? I'm sorry, but Jenson got lucky he won a WDC. Rosberg had incredible bad luck that he spent his career against the two greatest drivers of all time and therefor \*only\* got 1.
Jenson also spent most of his career in throughly midfield teams. After Brawn, he moved to Mclaren who never really recovered from the 2007 spygate fines. Even Lewis wasn't winning championships there. It's hard to seperate team and driver sometimes, but Jenson got given the equipment to win a championship and went out and did it. Even the midseason slump gets brought up as some kind of gotcha that Jenson was second rate, yet people conveniently ignore the absolutely stellar race in Brazil to go clinch the title when he should have been down and out. Hard to say if Rosberg was better. He had the defacto best car on the grid for at least 4 seasons, shame the other seat was occupied by probably the best driver ever.
>least 4 seasons 3 seasons.
Yeah I absolutely agree. Jenson certainly had areas where he was stronger than Nico but overall Nico was faster and more adaptable. I could see the argument that Sainz is the same level as Button but I don't think he's on a par with Nico.
On the flip side, Button's no mug - beat Alonso, Villeneuve, and Hamilton across a season. It's silly to put Sainz in the same conversation - he's not shown he can outperform a great over a season.
Yeah, Sainz isn't better than Rosberg. He literally is a Rosberg. He's in that awkward "too good to be a number 2" but also "not quite good enough to be a de facto Number 1" type driver. It's a major part of why he isn't getting the Red Bull drive.
Nah, he hasn't proved to be at Rosberg's level yet. And I don't think you can call Nico not quite good enough for a #1 at a top team.
Rosber would body Sainz in the same car
Rosberg absolutely was an elite driver. Do you even know what his junior stats were like or first years before Mercedes? Or how many times he took wins from Lewis? Lewis had a much worse relationship with him than he did with Bottas because Bottas was nowhere near Lewis in qualifying or pace. Rosberg has 20 wins with Mercedes in the hybrid era after 3 years. Bottas only had 10 wins and spent 5 years with them. Any team would've loved to have him as their #1, but no other team was fast enough to win the title. He stayed with Mercedes because he felt that at least once he would beat Hamilton and he did. Never in 100 years of retries would Bottas have been able to beat Lewis.
he is somewhere between rosberg and bottas imo
Lawrence is always so full of shit
Nico went against two 7th time WDC's and held his own (yes Lewis was only 3 time back then but still) He gets so much disrespect for no reason, the man doesn't even start this mud slinging contests and gets dragged through for no reason.
Right... He beat Hamilton in his prime, in the same damn car
Better than Rosberg or Button? Or is it that all three are in a category that's better than average? Trying to give barretto some grace...
He's saying that Button, Rosberg, and Sainz all fall in to the same category of drivers. I don't think Sainz is in the same league, though. Put Sainz next to Hamilton instead of Rosberg and Hamilton probably has one extra WDC to his name right now and I doubt Carlos could push Lewis to the same extent Nico did.
Jenson also beat Hamilton while both were at McLaren and was very close to him the other 2 years. Both are better than Sainz imo.
That’s a slightly warped view imo. Jenson was definitely better in 2011 (although i wouldn’t say quicker). But Hamilton was Better in 2010 and clearly a lot better in 2012, it’s actually a bit baffling how Button actually managed to outscore Hamilton over that period. The gap between them in quali was something like 0.3% in quali. Button falls into that category of really really good driver who got into good situations at the right time and capitalised. At least imo.
Yeah there's a definite tier of drivers who aren't as good as the greats but could beat them over the season if given a couple of breaks. I've not really seen anything to indicate Sainz is in that tier yet, he needs to walk the walk first. FFS Rosberg only marginally lost to prime Hamilton, and Button beat 3 WDCs over a season (Villeneuve, Alonso, Hamilton).
Yep, it's like how Sainz "beat" Leclerc in 2021
I’m sorry, Nico Rosberg didn’t bumble his way into that 2016 championship. Of course some unfavorable things happened to Lewis Hamilton, but Rosberg is still very talented. Nico Rosberg vs Carlos Sainz, I’m taking Rosberg every single time. Now, had Barretto compared Sainz to Keke Rosberg, maybe I’d agree, even then though…
Don't sleep on Keke though. He was seriously good. Was very rapid and could keep up and even beat Mansell.
how much is this man getting paid to say this because being on someone's payroll is the only reasonable option for why he would say this completely unreasonable sentence the rosberg disrespect is crazy
He's on F1's payroll so he'll always have to big up the current product. Hyping the sport "now" is his job.
Man Barretto has the worst takes
Just awful. Every time he throws one out there I’m blown away that he’s paid to do this.
He also has zero charisma, in fact he has negative charisma, I am always left wondering, as I watch the F1 pre race coverage/weekend warmup etc, how the hell did he get this gig? Like what are the requirements to host on sky TV F1 is it just like anyone can give it a go? Why can't they get people who are actually good on TV instead of Lawwrence and will?
A lot of people are going to say Rosberg beat Lewis to win the 2016 WDC. But actually the most impressive thing was that Rosberg won 7 races in row against prime Lewis Hamilton in the same car.
No way in hell that Sainz is better than 2 world champions.
At the same time, Button was in the right car at the right time and was just better than his teammate in the same car. That could certainly happen to Carlos because he is good enough to do that. Rosberg had to beat a 3 time champion (at the time) so I do think that means a bit more. I do not think he could do what Max did against Lewis in 2021 and take a car that was back and forth between the fastest and second fastest and win a title tho.
Button finished third in the championship in a BAR Honda behind both Ferraris in 2004. He showed more skill early on than Sainz. Plenty of good drivers never get to be in the right place at the right time, but still show how good they are. I like Sainz, but I wouldn't say he is on the level of Button and Rosberg at all right now. Maybe one day it'll click, but it hasn't yet.
Interesting, isn't it. Imagine if people looked at Alonso's record without his two championships. If you looked at his post championship career it might be easy to conclude he isn't that great. Of course we know otherwise. It's kind of what people do with drivers like Button, when they have similar career stories, only with Alonso his championships came at the front of his career rather than in the middle. Please don't mistake this for me saying Button was better than Alonso. I'm simply pointing out that people seem more interested in the order in which things happen and that counts massively towards the level of respect they get.
I’m not a Jenson Button fan by any stretch but he was also able to beat Lewis Hamilton as a team mate and more than held his own during their time together in Mclaren. This is just as significant as winning the 09 title IMHO. Sainz has not shown the outright pace or consistency to match Lewis Hamilton in his prime. That’s not saying Sainz is a bad driver, but the most apt way I can describe him is a very poor man’s Jenson Button.
Just another bad take by Barreto, nothing new.
not just bad, comical
The Nico disrespect is crazy. Man did not go against the two most lauded drivers in the sport while keeping them honest just to be lumped with a solid yet unspectacular driver like Carlos. Nico looked competitive against The Michael and Prime Lewis Hamilton, do we REALLY think Carlos could do that? Bro also thought we wouldn't notice him sneaking Lando alongside Max and Charles 😭 I'd say Lando *is* on Nico's tier, both of them just a step below the generational talents but being extremely talented.
I think Carlos Sainz fares as well as Bottas did at Mercedes. I just don’t see him touching Hamilton let alone walking away with a WDC.
I like Sainz but I don’t see him being a world champion unless he has a dominant car without a top tier driver next to him. He seems similar in skill to a guy like Webber who at his best can fight for a championship but isn’t necessarily on the same level as a world championship driver. Both Rosberg and Button beat Hamilton at or near the peak of his prime something I struggle to see Sainz accomplishing.
Nico Slander. Rosberg was a WDC quality driver and genuinely fast as fuck. He proved this more than once.
Apart from Max, so far none of the named current drivers have done anything to put their names ahead of (or even alongside) Rosberg and Button
Rosberg is a world champion but isn’t “supernaturally talented”. The teammate he beat in his championship season also has 7 titles to his name.
The Jenson Button that beat Vettel to a championship, who has beaten world champions Villeneuve, Hamilton, and Alonso as teammates?? Vs (I love him to death) Carlos Sainz?? Lawrence, lay off the neon shoes, they are melting your brain.
Rosberg and Button being disrespected while Charles and Lando get treated like the second coming of god. The things you have to read...
so many wrong statements in one quote
I want the money Barretto received from the Sainz’s or the medicine he is having
Both of those look like the good stuff, honestly.
After bald take I think it’s safe to assume that Nico Rosberg is the most underrated driver in F1s recent history
Does he substantiate this opinion? I personally don't see Sainz pulling off the race wins and feats that Button and Rosberg have.
Are Charles & Lando really better than Button or Rosberg? Not sure I would put them up there yet
I dont understand how Lando is even on that list. What, he wins 1 race and all of a sudden he is on the generational talent list?
Yeah no. This is just disrespectful to Button and Rosberg. If anything, Button had a Sainz-like teammate when he won his title.
Yeah. Sainz is more Barrichello than Button. Which is still respectable and great but not world champion material.
I love Sainz. He’s nowhere close to being “Rosberg but better”. And neither are (yet) Lando and Charles who the guy mention as a tier above.
Rosberg continuing to get dragged through the mud for the sin of not being as good as Lewis Hamilton. What exactly have Lando or Charles done so far to justify saying either of them is a definitively better driver than either of Rosberg or Button?
Nothing.
Absolutely nothing. Also clearly same category as Max, title says so thus must be tru.
Lmao i remember when the Red Flags guys first announced that Barretto was going to be a guest on the podcast they asked people on twitter what questions they should ask him and quite literally everyone in the replies just said "ask him why is he such a Sainz dickrider/how much is the Sainz family paying him" and literally no other questions and then they had to delete the tweet
Genuine question. Why is Sainz rated so high all of a sudden? I mean he is a great driver but isn’t he the same guy who finished 5th during a 2 team battle in 2022, and 7th last season while being called better than Charles throughout the entire season. And yeah he has his moments but his normal days on track never looked something extraordinary and even his greatest moments don’t feel worthy to be compared to Rosberg, or Button /s.
This is the same guy that said "Ricciardo is number one option for RB" lol
Britney literally beat Hamilton at peak (with every possible weapon he could target at him) and Jenson did all-time-greats in a couple of races (canada 2011). Carlos never showed any sainz (sorry) of pure excellence imo. He is good, he can be very good sometimes but even if ferarri would have been the RB the last years, I wouldn't bet my money on him dominating Chuck
Out of all the drivers mentioned in this quote I’d rate Sainz by far the least. Don’t get me wrong he’s quite good but comparing him to 2 WDCs? What has he done to even be considered close? Especially in comparison to Rosberg who on his day was terrifyingly fast. Sainz isn’t one of those absolute top talents. Hell I’d question if even Lando is quite up there but Sainz ain’t even close.
No way Sainz is better than Rosberg
Sainz is a good driver but not better than those two, come on now...
Clearly he means 'but worse'.
He did Nico dirty
Such a load of pretentious bollocks. This is why I tune in for the sessions/race and tune straight out at the chequered flag.
Lawrence Barertto casually dissing two world champions. Amazing.
Another shitty take from this guy.
What an insane take. Both Rosberg and Button are world champions. I think Sainz is great and all of the driver’s listed are championship material, but to put down Rosberg and Button is ridiculous.
Lawrence Barretto knows jack shit about Formula 1. His takes are always either one of two things: totally obvious or completely wrong.
It also feels weird to group Leclerc and Lando with Max.
What a ridiculous comment
Jenson and Nico but better?? hell no. Just being a 'nico rosberg' or a 'jenson button' is a really high level imho!
Sainz is not better than Rosberg or Button come on. Those 2 are world champions. Sainz probably never will be.
Not saying Sainz is better than Rosberg or Button, but saying he is worse because he’s never won a championship isn’t really fair. Sainz has never driven a car as good as the 2009 Brawn or 2014-16 Mercedes, even if he was the best driver on the grid he’s never had the machinery to win a title.
2022? While Leclerc was fighting for wins and scooped P2 in the championship, Sainz finished below Russell and almost below Ham who had one of his worst years
he was given a shot in the 1st half of 2022, and the only time he won was when ferrari handed it to him on a silver platter.
So Lando and Charles not better than Rosberg or Button too? Those two aren't world champions.
Rosberg would destroy Sainz in qualifying.
I like Sainz. But I still put N.Rosberg and Button above him.
Rosberg is Charles Barkley with a ring. He was going toe-to-toe with that generation's MJ for years and he won a single season off him fair and square. I wish more people understand that cause he deserves that much respect. I also wish we got DTS in 2016 cause that would have been the best season for all the drama and the racetrack action. And Rosberg walking into the sunset as he announced his retirement would've been a bomb finale.
In addition to being world champions, Button and Rosberg have both once beaten Hamilton in his prime in the same car. This is a serious undersell of how good they both were. 2011 Button is one of the most underrated seasons in my lifetime.
Sure, casually shade on former champions
Barretto's comments are almost always useless slander or pure rumor. I can't stand the guy and genuinely have no idea why he is employed in this series.
Who knows what would have happened if Rosberg didnt retire. He did win that year. So saying Carlos is better is absurd. Carlos is great but he hasnt proved to be Rosberg kind of great
I rate Carlos but this is Rosberg and Button slander. Sorry Lawrence, but he ain't better than them, unless he snags a crown for himself.
Sainz isn't even in the same spectrum as Button, let alone Rosberg. Rosberg was the one who could make Hamilton sweat and beat him on his best days and stayed close enough at his worst. Button was not one of the greats but took '09 with both hands and being able to win a WDC is a big achievement in itself. Sainz is a firm top 8 driver in the current F1 line-up but not in the top 5. Also putting Max, Lando and Charles in the same tier is bs. I'm a Leclerc fan but Lando and Charles have a lot to prove before coming anywhere near Verstappen's level of driving. Lando and Charles are error prone, Verstappen just drove 2 faultless seasons and also beat a prime Hamilton in the season before that. Stupid take Lawrence.
First of all, Lando is not in the same category as Leclerc let alone Max. Secondly, Button and Rosberg were better than Sainz.
I actually rate Carlos, but I think he still needs to prove he's on either Rosberg's or JB's level. Not sure why they are being disrespected.
just say no to the rosberg slander. his 2016 is still one of the most ridiculous seasons ever, basically killed himself and pushed himself beyond his limits to defeat the GOAT at the peak of lewis' powers
Oof I mean I love sainz but man better than Button? I'm not sure about that. They are very similar drivers I would say but you look at the "radio rewind" Playlist on YouTube and half of it is a Jenson absolute masterclass. Seriously he's just insane in the chaos
I will not accept JB slander like this
Button and Rosberg are top class, such a comment to make about our 2009 and 2016 champion, my god.
Bad take
What do you mean better than Rosberg? Rosberg was an incredible talent and F1 sorely misses his talent. Just because people didn't like the merc dominance doesn't change this fact.
This dude just peddles the latest narrative with the historical knowledge of someone who started watching F1 after DtS.
[удалено]
Saying Rosberg wasn’t in Charles and Lando’s tier is absolutely wild.
Barretto clearly has difficulty to evaluate drivers. Putting Lando, Charles and Max into same pool is insane and saying Carlos is better than Nico and Jenson is another level of insane.
Rosberg is I think better then Lando and Sainz. As is Button. Max is tier above Charles and especially Lando, though both could easily be champions with good car. Interested to see Leclerc vs Hamilton next year, think he could smash him to bits, many underrate him but nobody beat Sainz as easily as Leclerc (Sainz beat Norris twice, was convincing in race pace and is just not there against Leclerc).
Lando? Really?
Better than Rosberg? LOL. Lets see: 23 wins. 57 podiums. 30 poles vs 3 wins. 22 podiums. 5 poles
I don’t know about button but rosberg is a better driver than carlos sainz hands down.
Remember Barretto was the one who wrote last week that Vettel and Max were on the 2025 drivers market. How could anyone take this guy seriously?
And this why is I don't watch F1TV coverage. He's always talking some amount of shite and Will Buxton is, well, Will Buxton.
Aaaaaand my streak of a whole day without reading bullshit on Reddit just ended.