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Monaco will always be on the calendar as long as monaco wants to be on the calendar. Historic race that won't go away even if we end up with a parade of a race (wait whats that? Its been like that for years? Shocker).
The drivers could be driving 18-wheelers and we'd still "race" there.
But yes, the cars being shorter and narrower *might* help make it a more exciting race. The other problem with monaco tho is that there aren't really any hard braking zones//long enough straights to allow passing moves. THeres basically one established passing zone and thats at the Nouvelle Chicane, and even that is still risky.
Tbh I don’t hate the idea of one race a year being effectively just a qualifying competition. It rewards drivers for that skillset directly, and makes qualifying super intense and fun to watch.
Thats exactly how i see Monaco. Saturday is the "race", Sunday is them keeping their positions they earned in qualifying.
Some races are for massive top speed, some are throwing all the downforce in the world on it and having super high speed corners, some are slow and tiring, they're all different, Monaco is for that one special lap on Saturday.
What I'd love is Monaco being a complete one off and they do Q1 and Q2 as normal, but add 2 cars out extra, then that leaves the top 6, and they do a one lap shootout for pole. That way nobody can crash to get a higher position than they should be. (Ideally I'd change every qualifying to that but at Monaco especially)
> Thats exactly how i see Monaco. Saturday is the "race", Sunday is them keeping their positions they earned in qualifying.
Like the last day of the Tour the France
Winning on the Champs de Elysee on the last day of the Tour de France is a race for all the sprinters who've lasted the full race. It has no relevance to the general classification for the overall winner but it's an extremely hard fought competitive race.
> Sunday is them keeping their positions they earned in qualifying
And even that is sometimes an ask. It looks like a parade to us, and these drivers are ridiculously skilled, but keeping it out of the barriers for so long is still a feat worth admiring (even if it's not the most exciting thing lol).
For me, because of the qualifying aspect, it brings back the vibe of the refueling era, when going all-out on every lap was part of the game.
Good times.
Fair, though this is where instituting race specific tire conditions such as *all 3 compounds must be used in the race* could help.
True, it makes Monaco's race run under different parameters to the rest of the series, but that seems to make more sense than continuing to insist it's just like any other GP Sunday event.
Not all 3 compounds, just 1.
They should have no compounds available other than the softest possible reds... they can use as many sets of them during the race as they like...
Monaco is already ready run according to different parameters than any other race.... that track would never get OK'd today if not for all the history and glamour... making 1 more little change about available tires isn't gonna hurt anything...
> it makes Monaco's race run under different parameters to the rest of the series
Monaco is already run under different parameters. A Grand Prix by definition must be over 300km total distance, usually laps are calculated to 300km+1 lap. But if you did 300km in Monaco, the race would end up over the 2 hour limit, so Monaco race distance is 78 laps which works to around 260km.
The problem is we need narrower cars, but we still want the more clumsy slow speed handling current cars have due to their weight. Just simply going back to the lighter 605kg cars wouldn't help cause they were much more agile and better handling which made defending at Monaco easier for them
Yep. 200mm is not much if they want to reduce weight, should have been 400mm more. With the removal of the MGU-H I would've expected a tighter package and thus less space having to be used
They're saying it's going to be so thin that they might be prone to falling over in the wind. So the cars are going to have to be in constant motion like sharks
How does this compare to Formula-E cars? FE Monaco 2023 (watch it on YouTube) was one of the best Monaco races I've ever watched in recent racing history and it was all due to the much smaller FE cars.
**Current FE:** Wheelbase 2970mm x Width 1700mm (5,05 m² area, 70% of Current F1)
**Indy Road:** Wheelbase 3000mm x Width 1900mm (5,70 m² area, 79% of Current F1)
**26 spec F1:** Wheelbase 3400mm x Width 1900mm (6,46 m² area, 90% of Current F1)
**Current F1:** Wheelbase 3600mm x Width 2000mm (7,20 m² area, 100% of Current F1)
NASCAR Cup: Wheelbase 2794mm x Width 1996mm.
Can you imagine how ridiculous a NASCAR race would look at Monaco? But their cars are shorter and narrower than the current F1 cars.
_broken toe link has entered the chat_
But seriously, NASCAR cars are more durable and they have next to no penalties for contact in NASCAR. It might legitimately be a better race than modern F1
NASCAR at Monaco would be amazing, it would be a glitzier version of the Chicago race and I bet you could get a bunch of European drivers to race if it was a one-off or special event.
It's not entirely due to the size, the braking distance and minimum speed through corners is a big part of what makes overtaking at Monaco difficult, and that's not going to change much.
F1 cars have much shorter braking distances and go through the corners much faster, leaving significantly less time for an overtake to be made in places where it's possible.
FE cars are slow, have low grip and low downforce and therefore don't rely on perfect racing lines that much. New cars being smaller should help a little bit, but the insanely high precision and performance of these cars is the bigger issue at tracks like Monaco.
However since they'll be smaller at least significant pace difference due to strategy should give a chance to pass.
Worth noting these renders are of the 7th revision of these regulations. They are already on the 10th revision. https://x.com/SmilexTech/status/1798709542475473190
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TLDR from [Official FIA Press Release](https://www.fia.com/news/new-era-competition-fia-showcases-future-focused-formula-1-regulations-2026-and-beyond)
* ‘Nimble car’ concept at the heart of 2026 Technical Regulations targets improved raceability and closer racing
* 2026 cars will be 30kg lighter than current generation F1 cars improving efficiency and handling
* Redesigned power unit builds on world’s most efficient engines with almost 300% more battery power and even split between Internal Combustion and Electric power
* Active aerodynamics to suit the energy management requirements of new power units
* Increased overtaking opportunities through new Manual Override Mode granting more electrical power deployment for the following car (no more DRS)
* 2026 cars to run on 100% sustainable fuel
* Improved safety through stronger structures and even tougher tests
* Narrower tyres (18-inch but width of front reduced by 25mm and rears by 30mm)
* Narrower front wing (by 100mm and will feature a two-element active flap)
* No more wheel arches
* Reduced ground effect due to partially flat floor
* Three element rear wing
* Downforce has been reduced by 30%, drag by 55%.
I’m Don Quixote and I’m also looking forward to seeing how these perform on track, but I’m increasingly suspicious of the poster claiming to be a “fan”…
To me this sounds like it's only possible if the energy used to process this fuel is entirely self sustainable (solar panels, wind turbines for energy etc).
Yes that is what that entails. Porsche for example have their test plant for carbon neutral fuels in Patagonia. The reason being the region has far higher winds on far more days than is the case anywhere in Germany so they have some wind turbines which produce a lot of energy that they can use to turn it into fuel. There's a big discussion about how much sense that makes and that you could more efficiently use the energy to get the electrical grid decarbonized. Personally I don't think we'll see any mass market adoption of these e-fuels but there's undoubtedly a huge demand for synthetic hydrocarbons in the world so I think the research is worthwhile. Also from what I understand current production is already more efficient than bio diesel ever was.
It’s a bit of a long and technical watch but [this Harry’s Garage video](https://youtu.be/FJ6Ir42fvtU?si=5n4jd2O38z1v6QGn) gave me all the information I needed and more
That's the goal. Are we there? No. Does this mean we should stop and abandon future efforts. No.
Just because it doesn't work in your mind, doesn't mean it won't work.
That's another can of worms... How much carbon did you 'spend' manuacturing the solar panels, wind turbines, etc, how much for installing them and crucially, how much are you 'spending' on maintenance?
It's still an improvement... what about the environmental impact of oil drilling, refining, and transportation? It literally boggles the mind when you think about all the infrastructure that we have in place for gasoline. And that's before it even gets burned in a car.
Yeah unless they’ve somehow managed to break the laws of thermodynamics there’s no way. Plus all this carbon is still being released into the atmosphere. I’m sick of people believing this is what’s gonna save the ICE when it’s just some greenwashing bullshit
Generally from renewable bio sources, not fossil fuels. INDYCAR uses one based on sugar cane starting last year. https://www.indycar.com/news/2023/02/02-27-shell-fuel
Usually regulation changes were made for safety or cost reasons, but the 2017 regulations for example also had the goal to make the cars faster. Closer racing is more of a goal the last couple of years
No. The 17 changes were made to make them faster, because apparently a car hitting 360kph at Monza wasn’t fast. So they made them wider and said it wouldn’t hurt overtaking. It did, and then they tried silly things to get them to be able to overtake until they reintroduced ground effects.
I love the reintroduction of KERS. I think it's one of the worst things they ever did to take this away. Reintroducing it as an overtake button is even better, more chances for natural overtakes outside of DRS zones.
This has functionally been there since 2014. The major difference in the new regs is deployment limit is much higher overriding the maximum passive deployment
They use it in IndyCar and it is good. And it’s more far, as everybody has a set amount for the race unstead of getting an advantage for being behind like with DRS
It’s a power boost instead of DRS, which isn’t necessarily better or worse, just different.
Will it be deployable outside of the current DRS zones?
One other interesting possibility is that it could leave the attacking car low on battery power after an overtake meaning they may be limited in how many tries they get and may need to be defensive following a pass.
> Will it be deployable outside of the current DRS zones?
It's usable above 290kph so probably only on a few tracks where they've refused to introduce DRS on certain straights.
So wait, does that mean below 290kph there is NO overtake 'mechanism' since DRS is gone at all speeds, and P2P is only above 290kph?
Will the regular 'overtake' button drivers have currently be done with too? You know, when drivers charge their ERS and can deploy it to overtake?
Wish they were even smaller, but on the whole, I'm excited about this.
The concept car looks good, gives me mid 2000s vibes, and they will be fast.
Hopefully, they can put on a show for more than half a season before one team out develops everyone.
Felt like you were watching those cars break the laws of physics when they went around mid-high speed corners. The current breed is far less interesting in that regard.
i know it doesn't look like it but the current year cars are better in the mid-high speed corners than the 2020 or 21 breed cars, not sure why it doesn't look it but they're absolutely nutty in the amount of speed they carry through high aero load corners.
Maybe? Pole in Imola in 2020 was over a second faster than this year. Bahrain was almost 2 seconds faster in 2020. I know there are other variables but that seems like a big jump in performance, especially this late in the regulations.
I don’t think it’s as much a case of technical evolution as much as it is limitation of regulations. A team of top engineers could probably design a faster car than the W11 if really allowed to
Mercedes team consulting past design to try to deliver us another boring couple of years in f1 ???!!
On the other hand though would be so funny if Hamilton jumped ship only for Merc to nail the 2026 regs
But they are moving in the right direction now. Shrinking instead of growing.
The cars cannot get much physically smaller than they are now with modern safety standards.
If I were in charge of the design process I would've just shown the designers a picture of a car from like 2005 and just told them to do that again but I didn't actually expect the FIA would be trying to do that themselves too
It'd never happen but one thing I'd be fascinated to see... If you gave a team of modern engineers with modern materials, wind tunnels, simulators etc the regs from 2005 (or any other era), what would they build and how would it compare vs the cars of the time?
Thanks for that. Me and my freedom fractions over here were having a hard time. I wish we could convert. As someone who treks in and out of Canada regularly from the US, the KPH to MPH conversion is slightly annoying.
People say they want cars like the early '00 era and when they get one they complain lmao. All around the changes are good, looks will vary on how teams will want to interpret the rules, but tbh I don't care for looks as long as the racing is good. Active aereo and energy boost may actually make this an interesting "era" if they work as intended
The only thing i dont like are the powerunits for this gen, i would like to see more freedom regarding the choice of which ICE + electric combination to use. Just put a different limit on consumption and weight for hybrid/non hybrid cars, tot liters for race of sustainable fuel and a limit of engine parts.
For me it's the opposite, the rounded wings add to a "flowing" design, instead of sharp edges that F1 had before the current regulations and is now returning to. I'll miss today's rear wings.
Same here, they LOOK futuristic and advanced, these rear wings look ‘primitive’ (not literally of course) relatively speaking in their simplicity.
I imagine it’s for weight and/or drag reasons though, so maybe the current wings could return when the ICE is improved :’)
It’s interesting how on Reddit everyone is sensible being like “this is great” and understand it’s just a concept image but on instagram everyone hates it lmao
This is by far one of the most reasonable places to have an online discussion about F1, mostly because the most insane takes are usually drowned in downvotes and don't gain much traction.
Twitter (I refuse to call it X), Facebook and Insta on the other hand? That looks like a battle zone in comparison.
Also Instagram just has an incredibly vitriolic algorithm for how it sorts comments, it WILL push the most controversial comments to top, including taking into consideration the stuff you browse, just so it can push you better rage bait.
So of course the most vitriolic, toxic and controversial comments are encouraged and people will post the dumbest rage bait for more clicks.
The problem with all of those platforms is that they don’t have a negative react option for comments. The algorithm can only see who reacts positively by giving it a heart, and there is no version of community policing. It also doesn’t help that comments aren’t organized into a format that facilitates discussion like reddit threads so any rebuttal gets buried.
The concept 2022 car also looked basic but teams still even in year 1 came up with many cool looking different designs.
I wouldnt worry about this too much.
Not just that, but complying with the *spirit* of the regulations.
Designers will find loopholes that might be 100% compliant, but go against what was intended. We see it every reg change.
Makes me so sad, one of my favorite cars since the 90s cars. I just loved that look so much it was so weird but cool. Would have been insane if it worked.
FIA allow teams to design in parts within specified sizes, [like this one from 2022.](https://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Picture-221.png) So teams will come up with different ideas and sometimes grey areas which they can profit from. So the cars won't look the same like FIA models.
Good that they're shorter but sadly 20 cm are not enough, we probably needed 80/100 cm less considering how massive they are nowadays but it's unrealistic I suppose.
Yep, gradual changes are going to be how this shakes out. If the FIA asked them to hack off a whole meter of the car in one go, the teams would probably lose their minds
ye, I don't think 1m would be possible with todays safety features and big engines, but 50cm would be much better
also only 10cm narrower also not enough
For my fellow hamburger-eating, gun-toting, flag flying Americans, that's 66lbs lighter, 7.8 inches shorter, and 3.9 inches narrower.
Or in real words, 160 Big Macs lighter, 1 pistol-length shorter, and 2 French fries narrower.
For those of you that think in freedom units, that's 66 lbs, 7.9 inches and 3.9 inches.
It's a good start, but they could have gone farther with the shrinkage imho.
A normal rear wing and no more ugly ass wheel arches? Hell yeah.
If only they'd get rid of the rim covers too. But this for sure looks more like proper f1 style
Damn, the wheel brows are gone, I actually liked them a lot.
Looks a bit ugly, but this is just the concept car, the 2022 concept didn't look very good either and there were a lot of cool designs early on.
Hmm. I'm in two minds about this.
On the one hand the reduction in length and weight is very welcome. I'd have preferred if they kept the cars 2m wide to give them a squarer and less boat-like footprint as I don't personally believe width makes a big difference to racing quality, but 1.9m still isn't bad.
Speaking purely from a visual standpoint it feels like the new regs are trying to appeal to people who loved the 2005-2008 cars, and I know it's not a very popular opinion but I personally was very much not a part of that group. Other than the odd-looking rear wing and the boat-like proportions of the current cars I think they're some of the best looking F1 cars we've ever had.
The big thing that worries me though is some of the technical specs. A return to largely flat floors seems like a definitive step back. I know it's aimed at stopping the race to the bottom when it comes to ride height, but it feels to me like they drafted that part when porpoising was still running rampant and that they've overcorrected.
We'll see I guess. We're definitely looking at cars that will be seconds per lap slower, but if the racing is great I'm sure everyone can overlook that.
Narrower tires...why?? Someone give them the idea of having grooved tires next. I thought we wanted to have more mechanical grip instead of relying on aero?
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100m narrower?
Passing at Monaco solved
I know you’re joking, but it is a step in the right direction if Monaco is going to stay on the calendar
Monaco will always be on the calendar as long as monaco wants to be on the calendar. Historic race that won't go away even if we end up with a parade of a race (wait whats that? Its been like that for years? Shocker). The drivers could be driving 18-wheelers and we'd still "race" there. But yes, the cars being shorter and narrower *might* help make it a more exciting race. The other problem with monaco tho is that there aren't really any hard braking zones//long enough straights to allow passing moves. THeres basically one established passing zone and thats at the Nouvelle Chicane, and even that is still risky.
Tbh I don’t hate the idea of one race a year being effectively just a qualifying competition. It rewards drivers for that skillset directly, and makes qualifying super intense and fun to watch.
Thats exactly how i see Monaco. Saturday is the "race", Sunday is them keeping their positions they earned in qualifying. Some races are for massive top speed, some are throwing all the downforce in the world on it and having super high speed corners, some are slow and tiring, they're all different, Monaco is for that one special lap on Saturday. What I'd love is Monaco being a complete one off and they do Q1 and Q2 as normal, but add 2 cars out extra, then that leaves the top 6, and they do a one lap shootout for pole. That way nobody can crash to get a higher position than they should be. (Ideally I'd change every qualifying to that but at Monaco especially)
> Thats exactly how i see Monaco. Saturday is the "race", Sunday is them keeping their positions they earned in qualifying. Like the last day of the Tour the France
Winning on the Champs de Elysee on the last day of the Tour de France is a race for all the sprinters who've lasted the full race. It has no relevance to the general classification for the overall winner but it's an extremely hard fought competitive race.
"zips champagne" But yes, it's different. Just I see the relevance for it.
> Sunday is them keeping their positions they earned in qualifying And even that is sometimes an ask. It looks like a parade to us, and these drivers are ridiculously skilled, but keeping it out of the barriers for so long is still a feat worth admiring (even if it's not the most exciting thing lol).
For me, because of the qualifying aspect, it brings back the vibe of the refueling era, when going all-out on every lap was part of the game. Good times.
Fair, though this is where instituting race specific tire conditions such as *all 3 compounds must be used in the race* could help. True, it makes Monaco's race run under different parameters to the rest of the series, but that seems to make more sense than continuing to insist it's just like any other GP Sunday event.
Not all 3 compounds, just 1. They should have no compounds available other than the softest possible reds... they can use as many sets of them during the race as they like... Monaco is already ready run according to different parameters than any other race.... that track would never get OK'd today if not for all the history and glamour... making 1 more little change about available tires isn't gonna hurt anything...
Hell yeah
> it makes Monaco's race run under different parameters to the rest of the series Monaco is already run under different parameters. A Grand Prix by definition must be over 300km total distance, usually laps are calculated to 300km+1 lap. But if you did 300km in Monaco, the race would end up over the 2 hour limit, so Monaco race distance is 78 laps which works to around 260km.
They should change the qualifying format for Monaco to allow one car on the track at a time in Q3. Everyone takes their turn and gets one lap.
I agree. I’ve never minded the qualifying aspect. The whole weekend is exciting. Saturday is just more exciting instead of Sunday. Leave it as is.
Dude, passing barely occurred in the early 2000s. You need karts to pass at Monaco.
Exactly, people forgetting that for the last 40 years the cars have been 1900-2000mm wide at various stages lol
The problem is we need narrower cars, but we still want the more clumsy slow speed handling current cars have due to their weight. Just simply going back to the lighter 605kg cars wouldn't help cause they were much more agile and better handling which made defending at Monaco easier for them
Yep. 200mm is not much if they want to reduce weight, should have been 400mm more. With the removal of the MGU-H I would've expected a tighter package and thus less space having to be used
They are now -98 m wide
SUPER CLOSE TO THE WALL! -97.98 metres!
Shadow Realm GP
Ha! I knew I was correct at that maths exam a couple of years back!
Negative is not possible so the cars will be 98m wide, just the livery and decals will be mirrored
We're going 2d wirh this one.
Flatlander GP will be won by Max Verflatten
Imagine TRON vehicles, but it's just the lines We gonna see overtakes even in Monaco with this one! 🗣️🔥🔥
They're saying it's going to be so thin that they might be prone to falling over in the wind. So the cars are going to have to be in constant motion like sharks
So much narrower they have turned inside themselves and created a singularity
How does this compare to Formula-E cars? FE Monaco 2023 (watch it on YouTube) was one of the best Monaco races I've ever watched in recent racing history and it was all due to the much smaller FE cars.
**Current FE:** Wheelbase 2970mm x Width 1700mm (5,05 m² area, 70% of Current F1) **Indy Road:** Wheelbase 3000mm x Width 1900mm (5,70 m² area, 79% of Current F1) **26 spec F1:** Wheelbase 3400mm x Width 1900mm (6,46 m² area, 90% of Current F1) **Current F1:** Wheelbase 3600mm x Width 2000mm (7,20 m² area, 100% of Current F1)
Thanks! This is helpful. It's a step in the right direction.
NASCAR Cup: Wheelbase 2794mm x Width 1996mm. Can you imagine how ridiculous a NASCAR race would look at Monaco? But their cars are shorter and narrower than the current F1 cars.
Have to admit I laughed in a sinister way picturing that racing.
People would get pushed straight into the fairmont lobby at the hairpin lol
Not only that, but NASCARs have closed wheels, so they’re at least able to bump and be more aggressive.
_broken toe link has entered the chat_ But seriously, NASCAR cars are more durable and they have next to no penalties for contact in NASCAR. It might legitimately be a better race than modern F1
NASCAR at Monaco would be amazing, it would be a glitzier version of the Chicago race and I bet you could get a bunch of European drivers to race if it was a one-off or special event.
It's not entirely due to the size, the braking distance and minimum speed through corners is a big part of what makes overtaking at Monaco difficult, and that's not going to change much. F1 cars have much shorter braking distances and go through the corners much faster, leaving significantly less time for an overtake to be made in places where it's possible.
FE cars are slow, have low grip and low downforce and therefore don't rely on perfect racing lines that much. New cars being smaller should help a little bit, but the insanely high precision and performance of these cars is the bigger issue at tracks like Monaco. However since they'll be smaller at least significant pace difference due to strategy should give a chance to pass.
Yeah right? I think it’s still too wide. We gotta go narrower. ^(Sorry for the title, BTW)
[Basically mirrored and super fat.](https://i.imgur.com/GgWRdDv.png)
They have negative width. The drivers will still complain that the cars are too wide and that it's hard to overtake.
It's a start
Worth noting these renders are of the 7th revision of these regulations. They are already on the 10th revision. https://x.com/SmilexTech/status/1798709542475473190
Do they have a changelog for those or something we can look at? Can't imagine it has changed that much visually from this render
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Man, it's been a while since the last time I read this text on the XDA forums lol
TLDR from [Official FIA Press Release](https://www.fia.com/news/new-era-competition-fia-showcases-future-focused-formula-1-regulations-2026-and-beyond) * ‘Nimble car’ concept at the heart of 2026 Technical Regulations targets improved raceability and closer racing * 2026 cars will be 30kg lighter than current generation F1 cars improving efficiency and handling * Redesigned power unit builds on world’s most efficient engines with almost 300% more battery power and even split between Internal Combustion and Electric power * Active aerodynamics to suit the energy management requirements of new power units * Increased overtaking opportunities through new Manual Override Mode granting more electrical power deployment for the following car (no more DRS) * 2026 cars to run on 100% sustainable fuel * Improved safety through stronger structures and even tougher tests * Narrower tyres (18-inch but width of front reduced by 25mm and rears by 30mm) * Narrower front wing (by 100mm and will feature a two-element active flap) * No more wheel arches * Reduced ground effect due to partially flat floor * Three element rear wing * Downforce has been reduced by 30%, drag by 55%.
I mean, I'm a fan. Looking forward to seeing how these perform on track.
I’m a human and I’m also looking forward to seeing how these perform on track!
I’m Don Quixote and I’m also looking forward to seeing how these perform on track, but I’m increasingly suspicious of the poster claiming to be a “fan”…
Actually made me laugh out loud
> Reduced ground effect due to partially flat floor Mercedes comeback incoming?
Williams mate, their floor has been 2026 spec since 2022.
😂😂
What does sustainable fuel mean? (What is in it?)
They only release the carbon that is used to create them
Thanks, make sense.
To me this sounds like it's only possible if the energy used to process this fuel is entirely self sustainable (solar panels, wind turbines for energy etc).
Yes that is what that entails. Porsche for example have their test plant for carbon neutral fuels in Patagonia. The reason being the region has far higher winds on far more days than is the case anywhere in Germany so they have some wind turbines which produce a lot of energy that they can use to turn it into fuel. There's a big discussion about how much sense that makes and that you could more efficiently use the energy to get the electrical grid decarbonized. Personally I don't think we'll see any mass market adoption of these e-fuels but there's undoubtedly a huge demand for synthetic hydrocarbons in the world so I think the research is worthwhile. Also from what I understand current production is already more efficient than bio diesel ever was.
So, I'm confused by all these terms... Is 'carbon neutral fuel', 'carbon sustainable fuels' and 'e-fuels' all the same? Or are there differences?
It’s a bit of a long and technical watch but [this Harry’s Garage video](https://youtu.be/FJ6Ir42fvtU?si=5n4jd2O38z1v6QGn) gave me all the information I needed and more
That's the goal. Are we there? No. Does this mean we should stop and abandon future efforts. No. Just because it doesn't work in your mind, doesn't mean it won't work.
That's another can of worms... How much carbon did you 'spend' manuacturing the solar panels, wind turbines, etc, how much for installing them and crucially, how much are you 'spending' on maintenance?
It's still an improvement... what about the environmental impact of oil drilling, refining, and transportation? It literally boggles the mind when you think about all the infrastructure that we have in place for gasoline. And that's before it even gets burned in a car.
This, it's all green washing PR, but reducing the amount of pollution is a great step.
Flintstones style with a hole in the floor for the drivers feet to push the car
It means they found a calculation formula which results zero emission for thefuel manufacturers want to use ESG computations are a joke
Yeah unless they’ve somehow managed to break the laws of thermodynamics there’s no way. Plus all this carbon is still being released into the atmosphere. I’m sick of people believing this is what’s gonna save the ICE when it’s just some greenwashing bullshit
Generally from renewable bio sources, not fossil fuels. INDYCAR uses one based on sugar cane starting last year. https://www.indycar.com/news/2023/02/02-27-shell-fuel
Haven’t all the regulation changes been made partially to “target closer racing”
Usually regulation changes were made for safety or cost reasons, but the 2017 regulations for example also had the goal to make the cars faster. Closer racing is more of a goal the last couple of years
No. The 17 changes were made to make them faster, because apparently a car hitting 360kph at Monza wasn’t fast. So they made them wider and said it wouldn’t hurt overtaking. It did, and then they tried silly things to get them to be able to overtake until they reintroduced ground effects.
Back in the day every fan was complaining that the cars were getting to slow in corners, even in some tracks it was somewhat close to F2 laptimes
no more drs is a major change but dont know what "MOM" look like yet
Bye DRS, hi MOM
I love the reintroduction of KERS. I think it's one of the worst things they ever did to take this away. Reintroducing it as an overtake button is even better, more chances for natural overtakes outside of DRS zones.
This has functionally been there since 2014. The major difference in the new regs is deployment limit is much higher overriding the maximum passive deployment
I hope so, because DRS is dead
Not gonna lie, that Manual Override Mode sounds utter BS. I assume it's basicly the push to pass from FE.
They use it in IndyCar and it is good. And it’s more far, as everybody has a set amount for the race unstead of getting an advantage for being behind like with DRS
They're dumping DRS though so it'll likely even out.
> (no more DRS) Finally, thank goodness. DRS overtakes have been extremely boring to watch.
It’s a power boost instead of DRS, which isn’t necessarily better or worse, just different. Will it be deployable outside of the current DRS zones? One other interesting possibility is that it could leave the attacking car low on battery power after an overtake meaning they may be limited in how many tries they get and may need to be defensive following a pass.
> Will it be deployable outside of the current DRS zones? It's usable above 290kph so probably only on a few tracks where they've refused to introduce DRS on certain straights.
So wait, does that mean below 290kph there is NO overtake 'mechanism' since DRS is gone at all speeds, and P2P is only above 290kph? Will the regular 'overtake' button drivers have currently be done with too? You know, when drivers charge their ERS and can deploy it to overtake?
3 element rear wing, active aerodynamics No, more DRS!
It also says the front wing has an active element now... Double DRS at least
What does partially flat floor mean? How much was Venturi was kept vs flat floor? Compared to 2021 car?
Wish they were even smaller, but on the whole, I'm excited about this. The concept car looks good, gives me mid 2000s vibes, and they will be fast. Hopefully, they can put on a show for more than half a season before one team out develops everyone.
Or before the teams figure out how to cause the most amount of drag for the following cars
i think all we are reading about these regs is that they will be a lot slower, like 2014 slow
Front wing gives me 06 mclaren vibes, love it
Yes! Coming back to “smaller “ than the wheel
It's an in-wash instead of an outwash design. The outwash designs since 2009 have been terrible on the creation of vortices to the outside of the car.
IMO a lot of outwash and hard to follow problems occured with those wide front wings since 2009.
It looks like a fusion of early 2000s cars and the current regs, I like how they look! Hopefully they produce good racing!
Was thinking this as well. That front wing reminds me of the 2005 McLaren front wing.
Those rear floor edges are giving me 2020 vibes. All hail the W11.
I think it's a mix of the '00 era car and the previous regulation car.
Its nose kinda reminds me of the 2002-2008 Ferrari
I think it's a mix of all the eras plus IndyCar and GP2 as well
Ah the peak of peak F1 cars the car that made corners look like straights
Felt like you were watching those cars break the laws of physics when they went around mid-high speed corners. The current breed is far less interesting in that regard.
Specially the W11 Mugello was like a car which was meant to actually be a rocket driving around on a rail track
i know it doesn't look like it but the current year cars are better in the mid-high speed corners than the 2020 or 21 breed cars, not sure why it doesn't look it but they're absolutely nutty in the amount of speed they carry through high aero load corners.
Current cars are quicker in high speed turns due to ground effects.
Fastest car ever, that thing was an absolute monster on corners. No one will match its speed in a couple of decades minimum
I truly believe 2025 will have matched the 2020 cars.
Maybe? Pole in Imola in 2020 was over a second faster than this year. Bahrain was almost 2 seconds faster in 2020. I know there are other variables but that seems like a big jump in performance, especially this late in the regulations.
Didn't the cars also lose a bit of engine performance in the jump between 2021 and 2022? I believe it was related to the fuel.
We'll see how fast it takes T9 in Barcelona
you underestimate technical evolution
I don’t think it’s as much a case of technical evolution as much as it is limitation of regulations. A team of top engineers could probably design a faster car than the W11 if really allowed to
Any of the F1 teams could easily make a car faster than the W11 if they were allowed to use active aero, active suspension, and traction control
Mercedes team consulting past design to try to deliver us another boring couple of years in f1 ???!! On the other hand though would be so funny if Hamilton jumped ship only for Merc to nail the 2026 regs
i mean haven't a bunch of merc guys from that time joined ferrari now? might get interesting 👀
Man, it's like mid-2000s car make a comeback with a twist. Love it!
No way, these cars are still stupidly huge.
But they are moving in the right direction now. Shrinking instead of growing. The cars cannot get much physically smaller than they are now with modern safety standards.
I love that it gives me pre 2022 car vibes and really the only thing I hope is that it improves the racing and the performances of the cars on track.
If I were in charge of the design process I would've just shown the designers a picture of a car from like 2005 and just told them to do that again but I didn't actually expect the FIA would be trying to do that themselves too
It'd never happen but one thing I'd be fascinated to see... If you gave a team of modern engineers with modern materials, wind tunnels, simulators etc the regs from 2005 (or any other era), what would they build and how would it compare vs the cars of the time?
The rear wing looks great and it reminds me a bit of 2007-2008 era cars
For the Americans: the car will be 66lbs lighter, 8” shorter and 4” narrower.
Thanks for that. Me and my freedom fractions over here were having a hard time. I wish we could convert. As someone who treks in and out of Canada regularly from the US, the KPH to MPH conversion is slightly annoying.
Is OP your dad? Asking because of your username ...
Damn, that's like two dicks narrower...
I see a lot of elements from pre 2009 cars, and also a lot of new, interesting ideas. Looks really exciting to me.
People say they want cars like the early '00 era and when they get one they complain lmao. All around the changes are good, looks will vary on how teams will want to interpret the rules, but tbh I don't care for looks as long as the racing is good. Active aereo and energy boost may actually make this an interesting "era" if they work as intended
We don't want the 00's era style, but the size.
Exactly. Current cars are beautiful, they're just enormous. The new cars will still be very big.
200mm is about like 8 inches. That doesn't sound like much, but it's a huge step in the right direction.
It's a lot to me. Come on, don't do me like that.
God we really are screwed if eight inches ain't much these days 😭
I'm not crying you're crying
Are we measuring just the drive shaft or from the wheel base?
I think the girth of the drive shaft is also very important.
Don’t think that’s possible unless refueling is reintroduced, but I could be wrong. That seems to be when they started getting huge.
Its not even close to being 00s size or weight.
>People say they want cars like the early '00 era and when they get one they complain lmao Probably because they are still as big as a goddamn bus.
They took the nose straight from a 2005 mclaren.
Yay its smaller
Front wing is sooo 2008
The only thing i dont like are the powerunits for this gen, i would like to see more freedom regarding the choice of which ICE + electric combination to use. Just put a different limit on consumption and weight for hybrid/non hybrid cars, tot liters for race of sustainable fuel and a limit of engine parts.
Does anybody else see like so much floor
Wouldn’t worry too much about it, the 2022 concept car was the same
I fucking love that the rear wing has returned. The round ones we have today never really did it for me. And the Front Wing Wing looks pretty cool
Nooooo! I really like today's rear wing..
I also like that it isn't super narrow like before. Always looked goofy.
For me it's the opposite, the rounded wings add to a "flowing" design, instead of sharp edges that F1 had before the current regulations and is now returning to. I'll miss today's rear wings.
same here
Same here, they LOOK futuristic and advanced, these rear wings look ‘primitive’ (not literally of course) relatively speaking in their simplicity. I imagine it’s for weight and/or drag reasons though, so maybe the current wings could return when the ICE is improved :’)
It’s interesting how on Reddit everyone is sensible being like “this is great” and understand it’s just a concept image but on instagram everyone hates it lmao
The Instagram community is really bad
This is by far one of the most reasonable places to have an online discussion about F1, mostly because the most insane takes are usually drowned in downvotes and don't gain much traction. Twitter (I refuse to call it X), Facebook and Insta on the other hand? That looks like a battle zone in comparison.
Also Instagram just has an incredibly vitriolic algorithm for how it sorts comments, it WILL push the most controversial comments to top, including taking into consideration the stuff you browse, just so it can push you better rage bait. So of course the most vitriolic, toxic and controversial comments are encouraged and people will post the dumbest rage bait for more clicks.
The problem with all of those platforms is that they don’t have a negative react option for comments. The algorithm can only see who reacts positively by giving it a heart, and there is no version of community policing. It also doesn’t help that comments aren’t organized into a format that facilitates discussion like reddit threads so any rebuttal gets buried.
I love the current rear wing. Sad to see it go!
The front wing is a blast from the past, mid to late 2000s aka 2005-2008 vibes.
Not saying it is a bad thing but it looks like an F2 car.
The concept 2022 car also looked basic but teams still even in year 1 came up with many cool looking different designs. I wouldnt worry about this too much.
Yeah it's a concept e.g. here's an example of a car that's complying with the regulations.
Not just that, but complying with the *spirit* of the regulations. Designers will find loopholes that might be 100% compliant, but go against what was intended. We see it every reg change.
Man I still think back to what could’ve been with mercs zero pod design
Hey, on paper it was dominating!
Makes me so sad, one of my favorite cars since the 90s cars. I just loved that look so much it was so weird but cool. Would have been insane if it worked.
Well to be frank current regulation demo car also look real bad compared to the real one
FIA allow teams to design in parts within specified sizes, [like this one from 2022.](https://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Picture-221.png) So teams will come up with different ideas and sometimes grey areas which they can profit from. So the cars won't look the same like FIA models.
100m narrower? Jesus, that takes us into serious negative width territory
30kg lighter means still heavier than the 2021 regs... But at least the right direction.
Def needed to be shorter.
Good that they're shorter but sadly 20 cm are not enough, we probably needed 80/100 cm less considering how massive they are nowadays but it's unrealistic I suppose.
Yep, gradual changes are going to be how this shakes out. If the FIA asked them to hack off a whole meter of the car in one go, the teams would probably lose their minds
ye, I don't think 1m would be possible with todays safety features and big engines, but 50cm would be much better also only 10cm narrower also not enough
For my fellow hamburger-eating, gun-toting, flag flying Americans, that's 66lbs lighter, 7.8 inches shorter, and 3.9 inches narrower. Or in real words, 160 Big Macs lighter, 1 pistol-length shorter, and 2 French fries narrower.
For those of you that think in freedom units, that's 66 lbs, 7.9 inches and 3.9 inches. It's a good start, but they could have gone farther with the shrinkage imho.
Thank you u/ICumCoffee happy to see they finally shrunk the car a bit
A normal rear wing and no more ugly ass wheel arches? Hell yeah. If only they'd get rid of the rim covers too. But this for sure looks more like proper f1 style
I wish Pirelli agreed to smaller wheels as well, since that would make cars lighter with no bad trade off.
They are going to be Thinner wheels it says
Ah, so I guess there was some compromise, but I remember that FIA or FOM wanted to reduce to 16 inch wheels.
Damn, the wheel brows are gone, I actually liked them a lot. Looks a bit ugly, but this is just the concept car, the 2022 concept didn't look very good either and there were a lot of cool designs early on.
I'm glad the brows are gone. Never liked them.
Not gonna lie, looks like an F2 car, imo.
A full hundred metres narrower! I knew the engineers are talented but I look forward to them unlocking the other dimension!
100m narrower will definitely help overtaking.
Hmm. I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand the reduction in length and weight is very welcome. I'd have preferred if they kept the cars 2m wide to give them a squarer and less boat-like footprint as I don't personally believe width makes a big difference to racing quality, but 1.9m still isn't bad. Speaking purely from a visual standpoint it feels like the new regs are trying to appeal to people who loved the 2005-2008 cars, and I know it's not a very popular opinion but I personally was very much not a part of that group. Other than the odd-looking rear wing and the boat-like proportions of the current cars I think they're some of the best looking F1 cars we've ever had. The big thing that worries me though is some of the technical specs. A return to largely flat floors seems like a definitive step back. I know it's aimed at stopping the race to the bottom when it comes to ride height, but it feels to me like they drafted that part when porpoising was still running rampant and that they've overcorrected. We'll see I guess. We're definitely looking at cars that will be seconds per lap slower, but if the racing is great I'm sure everyone can overlook that.
It’s cute.
I don’t know what it is but I’ve always preferred the look of the square looking rear wings so I’m happy to see them return
Surely PU suppliers could build a hybrid V10 that runs on sustainable fuels no?
Still too fucking big.
The size difference will do wonders...i hope.
I also want a -98m wide car
Narrower tires...why?? Someone give them the idea of having grooved tires next. I thought we wanted to have more mechanical grip instead of relying on aero?
Wider tires means wider car. Which everybody wants to do away with.