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Nobody called it that until this tragic marketing blunder, why should we change the current convention instead of giving the new one a different name?
Its RB and VCARB not RBR and RB. Hill im willing to die on.
I think thereās added confusion now that people are referring to the (unofficially called) VCARB team as RB now.
Like this headline.
Which causes some confusion when youāve still got Red Bull/who are also sometimes referred to as RB, and RBR.
> Nobody called it that until this tragic marketing blunder
That's false, Red Bull Racing has been abreviated as RBR for more than a decade.
Here are some threads as an example:
11 years ago
https://redd.it/vrw34
https://redd.it/11r5nh
8 years ago
https://redd.it/3rix53
7 years ago
https://redd.it/5bbo2w
6 years ago
https://redd.it/6n1z3a
4 years ago
https://redd.it/cqtu84
I can confirm via a quick search that I've been calling Red Bull "RBR" in writing since at least 2019 when I started watching F1 regularly again. It's my preferred term: it sounds much more like an actual race team that might succeed than a bunch of twentysomething guys wearing too much Axe body spray and wound up on caffeine and sugar!
Pretty sure you're just having one of those moments. :D
https://xkcd.com/1053/
Checo is sitting in a RedBull seat due to his popularity and the money he brings in.
Daniel is sitting in a RB seat due to his popularity and the money he brings in. There's really no difference.
For those wondering, Daniel is managed by CAA, the biggest management company in the world, and they helped broker the deal between RBR and Visa, which is estimated to be worth $35MM. So they get a ton of money from that, money from merch sales, fans from Danny's popularity, & of course they get the biggest smile and latest braker on the grid.
That Albon situation was so odd, especially in 22. I think in Monaco they put the logo on the corner of his visor or something because he ignored blue flags for an entire lap. Must not have been able to see them.
No driver would be in f1 without sponsors. That's part of why Lawson doesn't have a contract yet. He did well subbing, but driving isn't enough, and he doesn't come with a major sponsor. Skill + money/sponsors/fans is the winning combo. Some lean more heavily one way or another, but they generally need both. Having a car company as a sponsor definitely feels like more of a skill related sponsor than a management company, though.
Yeah he needs to get Xero and Air NZ or someone on board who will throw a few million at him so he can get a seat. If hes going to get the similar results as DR but the team gets 30 million less a year, makes it a hard sell. VCARB is trying to make it profitable for a sale or just because it needs to make money now that the old RB owner isnt there.
Thereās actually no valid source thatās reported anything like that. **If you find one feel free to share it.**
The only outlets that have said anything in that vein are the random websites that post all sorts of crap in the hopes that something is true.
Norrisā dad paid for his junior formula racing but he got his initial test with McLaren because he won the Autosport BRDC award
Agreed to this. I couldn't see anything outside of twitter journalism that says he paid anything after joining F1, but his dad did fund his whole junior career.
There was also some talk at the time of paying for his endurance but nothing that was ever too heavily reported or covered by legit publications
dude you are making some wild assumptions, especially with Mick. winning F3, F2 suddenly happens if you have the fastest car? what a surprise! Piastri won freca, F3 and F2 in a row. Zhou, Lando and all of the drivers from the grid deserve to be there. they had great junior and karting careers. if someone brings money from sponsorship or has a good agency is suddenly a pay driver? parents make sacrificies for their kids to succed. lewis' dad worked 3 jobs and lewis was a mercedes driver since he was 13-14 years old based on what he achieved on track and on the sacrificies his family made. achieving good positions in society or is not something bad that should be called out. in every area of life you succed by being good at what you are doing and by having good people around you. this happens in any other sport, in business, in politics, in school(for example winning a team competition like robotics).
I think you misunderstood the original comment. They were arguing 80% of the current grid can be argued to be (or have been) a pay driver on the same basis, but only the ones who underperform tend to get pointed out. Nobody said these drivers donāt deserve to be on the grid, but that doesnāt mean their financial backing didnāt put them in advantageous positions at some point in their careers.
> winning F3, F2 suddenly happens if you have the fastest car
In F2 and F3 everyone races the same specification cars, they aren't really meant to have any major performance differences...
Nah if you pay attention to feeder series you see that some team can just afford better mechanics and set up guys and it shows. Thatās why the some teams almost always end up at the top half of the grid
Yep. Itās the entertainment business. I work in it. People forget sports is part of the entertainment business. If itās not propped up by ticket sales, then itās propped up by advertising. Sports entertainment dollars can be driven by wins, but most often itās driven by the personalities. Too many foolish individuals are chasing some ideal around sportsmanship. Itās just not reality.
Yeah, Red Bull not signing Sainz feels like malpractice. RB keeping Daniel in their junior team over Lawson makes me wonder what the point of being in their driver's academy is.
I feel lawson is overrated by people on here, if he was that good then surely other teams would be trying to get him to join, but there's been absolutely no speculation about him getting a non VCARB seat.
I think there's a slim chance he gets the seat next year, but it won't be yuki's (unless he leaves) and DR is improving
Where, though? That's the thing, there's a lot of talent but not enough seats. There are drivers that seen to havr stagnated but won't be moved simply because of either money they bring or it being riskier to take a rookie in a cost cap era.
The ones who are most likely getting seats next, Antonelli & Bearman, are getting them because they're for Top teams in the future; usually the young ones that might get a chance in the team for RBR would go to RB but Daniel is there like the world's most PRable obstruction.
Thatās exactly it though; the cream more often than not rises to the top. If youāre a great driver, youāre getting a seat eventually.
Lawson realistically isnāt a WDC caliber talent. So fundamentally, whatās the difference between having him in a RB vs Yuki or Ricc?
I mean who is really, truly such better drivers than those two that are missing out? Lawson was fine, Doohan is fine, but they are not like world champions just waiting to burst through. Why do we always have to complain?p
Complaining is not necessarily bad, it can be quite cathartic. I don't understand the need to make others censure themselves, as long as they're not being disrespectful.
And, it's not that they *will* be immediately better but Checo & Daniel seem to have stagnated and rookies theoretically have more room to grow. Even if they weren't better, they *would* be phased out more easily and not act like the bottle neck these drivers currently are.
Both checo and Daniel have had above average F1 careers. It's therefore unlikely that even if you give some rookies room to grow they will ever have a career as good as either of these drivers, so I don't see the rush to boot them out of F1 at the first opportunity
Isn't the discussion that this isn't the first opportunity? Checo held on to P2 last year through God's will in a ridiculously dominant car and we've been waiting for years for Daniel to be truly *back*.
I agree they were pretty good, Daniel more so than Checo to me, but they simply are not those drivers anymore. Or, at least, they haven't convincingly proven they are consistently up there.
And, again, if the rookies don't cut it they will be removed because there won't be a "He's Back" discussion or something. It should keep the market dynamic.
Perez was definitely very good in 2020.
Now his average gaps to Max are not bigger than they were in 2021. Before Canada his average gaps to Max this season were smaller than in any previous season in Red Bull. Don't the data post-canada, but it's not like Perez was getting lapped or anything so the average won't change a ton.
So unless Max has regressed between 2021 and now, there really is zero reason to believe, or zero proof, that Perez has regressed at all, unless we believe he became shit between 2020 and 2021.
Daniel is a different story. He used to compete with World Champions, now he's getting lapped in equal cars by Norris. We have proof to say he's regressed massively. We don't have sch proof for Perez.
The past is the past. In the case of Danny Ric he has been underwhelming since his days at McLaren. At some point you have to say "you were good in the past, but those days are long since over".
Lawson did as well as Ricciardo and Yuki immediately, which means he's on the same level as them with the difference that he's still a rookie that can grow much higher. And I definitely disagree on the idea that Lawon is "not a world champion waiting to burst through". He has enough potential to win an F1 championship.
It's a bit of a bullshit argument. We had contact in the front in every single race these past 4 weekends. In Monaco Carlos was saved from a DNF by a red flag. We've had contacts between LEC and VER for P1 plenty of times these past 2 years. I don't think I should have to even mention 2021. Drivers fight for position up and down the grid. QUalifying down the grid doesn't mean it's your fault if you get crashed out of the race.
And just FYI, 2 weekends is not a semi-regular basis.
Checo is sitting in a RedBull because he was 4th in 2021, 3rd in 2022 and 2nd in 2023. He brings in money because he scores points. He also doesn't fight with Max and I really think that's all that Red Bull cares about. No other racer in the field would be as satisfied just sitting behind Max as Checo is, which is why Daniel was bumped out of Red Bull in the first place.
He's not really that far off from 2nd place in 2024. His DNFs in Monaco and Canada really hurt but all he has to do is get back to picking up 2nd places and he'll finish this season strong. As long as he keeps Red Bull #1 in the Constructors he'll be fine. If they drop to 2nd place, they'll start looking to trade him.
> Checo is sitting in a RedBull seat due to his popularity and the money he brings in.
>
> Daniel is sitting in a RB seat due to his popularity and the money he brings in. There's really no difference.
Except one of the two is bringing in way more money. If it were the other way around DR would be in the second seat.
> For those wondering, Daniel is managed by CAA, the biggest management company in the world, and they helped broker the deal between RBR and Visa
Nuh uh, I watched DTS, he got the seat because of how fast he was during that one test session.
It's insane because literally the people at VCARB are saying, directly, "we are no longer a junior team for RBR, we are doing our own thing" and people rage froth at the mouth, "They need to bring in Lawson or their junior program is dead!"
Like, teams have helped their junior drivers by also securing seats for them at teams like Williams, Alfa Romeo etc. It doesn't HAVE to be a team that's affiliated with them.
And VCARB has to move away from their Red Bull affiliations or there will be accusations of collusion. They NEED to prioritize their own results.
And if it's true that Ricciardo brings money to the team and that's why they have him, there are way worse drivers on the grid than him that deserve the spotlight. Zhou and Stroll are essentially pay drivers. You have no business watching this sport if you think either of them will have a chance against Ricciardo 1:1.
And no offense, but I'd eat my shoe before I bet money on Bottas beating Ricciardo.
People seem to have a weird obsession with thinking Bottas is better than he's been showing. Ricciardo has almost as many wins as he does and he got those wins with a much slower car. He's literally BEATEN Bottas on track in a slower car. Sure, that was "years" ago. It's also been a long time since Bottas got points too. If you can blame the car for him, you can blame the car for DR.
Yeah man. Wish we could just stop talking about it and let nature take it's course. But of course, we're f1 fans. Speculating to the moon and ranting runs in our blood.
I mean itās a forum dedicated to formula 1 and the races are far apart at the moment. What else should be people aside from speculating and shooting the shit? Weāre all thirsty for content and eating up any content posted.
It's the Reddit bots. They just repeat old comments and shit.
There's other subs suffering from the same thing. Reddit going public turned this place to shit.
Articles of either him, Checo, Mick or Ocon are just easy engagement farms. People get so riled up just by seeing their name and get into pointless arguments with each other. It's perfect for websites to boost clicks during slow news days/non race weeks.
*"He believes there's something wrong with the air, that's why he is getting less downforce than yuki. The team will have new air ready for him in Spain"* - Probably Christian Horner.
If Danny Ric was clearly beating Yuki every race, thereās no doubt in my mind he wouldāve been handed Checoās seat given his dismal performance this year. Ric just didnāt do a good enough job and missed his chance to get back into Redbull. Unless he starts destroying yuki the rest of the year and early next year, heās never going back to the main team.
I have a feeling Horner was expecting DR to come in wipe the floor with Yuki and then be promoted to the top team this year. While im the biggest DR fan he really hasnt done enough to justify it.
I am curious if what the said in DTS was actually correct or if just for the cameras as if its the RB car could he be putting it in the top of the grid? As fas as I remember Max and DR liked the same style of car. Pointy with a looser rear. Could be wrong on that though.
If he signs another contract, it will be entertaining to see the rage fests on the internet. Not that I disagree with him not being up to par to still fill that seat. Just that the amount of outrage will be funny to me personally.
He will. Itās a business and he brings a lot of value to the team. I suspect that if the right bid came up, RB would sell the sister team to Andretti (for example), and having a name well recognized in the US as one of the drivers, who also happens to have experience helping engineers with car development feedback, seems like a sensible pitch that might be made.
I totally agree with that. I will say though that, some of Yukiās increase in performance can be due to input that DR gave to the engineers based on his feel in the car. He even talked about using a button on the steering wheel to mark points on the track where he felt something and wanted to check it out with the engineers. I know that we compare driver performance to each other a lot, but I do think that he has benefitted the team, even though heās struggled to gain points early in the season.
Fair. I feel like his main problem, considering we can still see flashes of his driving skills, is in his head. And if remember correctly, he's pretty much admitted that this season in an interview. So if he could just get it straight in his head, there's always a possibility for him to consistently be better again.
Thats what it says in the article. Basically he feels at the beginning he was doing to many other commitments and came to the race not 100% refreshed. He even made an off hand comment about as a young guy you come in and race, when your older you have alot more on your mind and its harder to get into that 100% pure focused racing.
Lol you guys are so close to the truth. Even when he's admitting that his heart's just not in it anymore in your head you think it's a switch he can just flick on and be 8 years younger.
All drivers have a button on the steering wheel to mark things that they want to discuss with their engineers later, this isnāt some revolutionary thing.
Yeah, only thing Iād add that Iāve not seen from others is that they respond to his ticks in real time without him audibly asking for anything. For example, he locked the rear into T10 during the formation lap in Canada, he pressed the tick button and a couple seconds later they acknowledged and addressed it although he was completely silent over the radio.
I mean all professional sports are businesses. There is still competition, but who drives and who doesnāt is very much a business decision (or a series of business decisions) that teams make. They still compete for points that very much determine royalty allocation. I suspect that without sponsors, all teams would be competing to avoid losing money as opposed to competing while making money.
Its been a sport* forever. The real competition happens between engineers. RB has shown that you just need one great driver and a competetive car to make it work.
As long as the prize money does not upset the money a driver brings in this will happen. Espceially for teams that cant fight for a high WDC spot anyway.
This all came out Thursday last weekend. He was disappointed with his performance, he wanted to get honest feedback from people where they thought he was wrong outside of driving the car to see if people had insight he was missing.
I donāt understand. First he does too much off track stuff and doesnāt focus on driving. Then he does focus on driving but itās not the right kind of focus? What the hell do people want from him?
From what he said about talking to Laurent Mekies, it seems like he still had a lot of media commitments that were taking a lot of his time, iirc just a couple of weeks ago for example they had him travel to turkey for a Visa thing, and before that they sent him to Poland for an Orlen thing.
Horner wonāt allow Marko to have a driver of his choosing in any of Red Bull teams again. Also, Ricciardo is close with him and brings money thanks to CAA.Ā
He's had one good race and one good sprint. At the start of the year people were predicting he should be beating Yuki, however, Yuki is wiping the floor with him.
All jokes aside: what would concern me about this as a fan would be the idea that prior to the meeting there was no opportunity for this. Are people not allowed to offer him constructive criticism normally? He literally talks about looking at his own data, doing "self-therapy"...
*"I just basically wanted to know, 'What do you guys think is going wrong? Tell me if there's something you see from me."*
How is an underperforming driver not hearing this regularly, after every single race?
*"I'd rather people just be very direct with me."*
Then why isn't it happening? This seems is another float in the DR PR parade, reassuring everyone he's trying to improve, but if that's the case it still doesn't make a ton of sense. You're only having these conversations now?
I think a problem with DR's PR stuff these days is that it seems so out of touch. He's still affable and likeable but the narratives he puts out in these articles don't... quite make sense. I think it may be why people are getting frustrated with him, all the media tap-dancing. Just be yourself, enjoy your remaining time in F1, do your best, adjust to new expectations.
Did you see the Canada weekend? Qualified 5th and raced pretty decent for points. Without the penalty and the team making a bad strategy call, he could have finished ahead of the Astons... at least one of them.
My comment is largely about the PR strategy here and over the last few months. This article implies he doesn't get constructive criticism from his team normally and people aren't direct with him. I guess I assumed all drivers, including winner, would get constructive criticism and feedback after every single race, and that it wouldn't be newsworthy. I said nothing about his performance on track except he's underperformed this season.
Except he's wildly inconsistent. And that's being generous. If a non race winner were performing like this, we'd say his good races are outliers and not reflective of reliable skill. All of his points come from 2 races: one sprint and Canada. Not a good look. *No hate, I'm just trying to be objective.
Yeah... agreed. Well... No. He's not been inconsistent. He's been pretty consistent for the most part. Unfortunately, the inconsistency is "Qualifies shit. Races great. Finishes poorly largely due to forces outside his control" If he had qualifying nailed, this wouldn't be a conversation. Even if he wasn't beating Yuki at all... just... don't qualify 17th.
Yeah. I guess consistent in a way that is generally incompatible with scoring points. Not ideal, even if he's just trying to fend off Lawson and hold onto his vcarb seat. Maybe having a new and clearer role - non leadership/second driver with some development influence - will help? Who knows.
Not to take it away from him, however that was with at least three cars that should have been in there missing.
Normal service weekend he wouldn't have been in the points. That goes for Aston as well, they were flattered by the two Ferraris and Perez not turning up.
Whilst points are points, it doesn't show a performance improvement.
A normal weekend, maybe? But that doesn't really have anything to do with this specific situation. In the same world where everything happened exactly the way it did with the exception of VCARB fucking the clutch and the strategy, he would have finished likely ahead of Stroll. Probably not ahead of Alonso tho. Ricciardo was 7th when the Safety car came out. If he pitted right away instead of a lap later and if he didn't have the penalty, he would likely have remained 7th, as they had plenty of a gap. If Yuki didn't pit (as was the case in the actual race), Ricciardo may have come out in 8th behind Yuki. But because he came out in 10th, he was in the Ocon and Albon mess. Without VCARB screwing him with the clutch situation, and the penalty, Ricciardo likely would have finished 7th... and again... if he qualifies better, no one is having a problem with Ricciardo. He is actually racing way better than Yuki each race with the exception of a couple.
Just saying it's not an improvement in performance, it's a good race for him.
Similar to a situation we have seen in the past, if you are normally outside of the points, but a freak situation with crashes puts you on the podium, it's a good result, however, doesn't mean you improved any, but you had a good race.
With both Ferraris and Perez in normal positions anywhere in the top 10 then he isn't scoring, like normal, nor are the Alpines.
Itās funny that he talks about energy management because after his sprint performance in Miami I thought the reason for his drop off in quali looked like fatigue. He just didnāt seem as sharp as he did a few hours earlier, which is understandable given how hard he had to fight in the race.
I didn't think of it like that but that could be true as well. But it was also to do with tyres. He had one out lap on new tyres and one hot lap after. It just wasn't in the right window. Same thing happened to Lando in sprint. He was good in sq1 and sq2 but sq3 he lost it.Ā
I find it hilarious how the gammut of conversations run from Ricciardo being promoted to Red Bull, to Ricciardo losing his VCARB seat and ending his F1 career
I think if DR3 can close the gap to <3-5 points, he stays.
At that point, it's more or less a weekend or single result difference between the two.
I'm a *huge* DR fan, like, I honestly think my ability to get up at 2 am for certain races will be completely killed for a long time after he goes.
But in my opinion, it might be time. Yuki is great, and he's made a lot of progress over the last year, especially. But Yuki is, at best, Ocon or Gasly level. In a fast car, he can steal a win and maybe secure a few podiums. But Yuki, at this stage, hasn't shown he can beat Leclerc or Russell or Lando, let alone that he can go wheel to wheel with Max or Hamilton. So for Danny to be completely outclassed by Yuki, at what point do you stop blaming the car?
DR should be beating Yuki *convincingly* if his goal is to show he's "the old Danny" and not just "old Danny". But maybe this is about being clear about your goal. If his goal isn't to win a WDC and it's just to hang out on the grid, take advantage of the visibility and marketability to do what he loves (which is racing F1 cars), then be honest about it and lean into it.
But I don't think that's his goal. He has always said he wants to be a champion... And if it's not going to happen in F1, the least he can do is make room for Lawson and use his strong position in the market to secure an Indy seat with a top team. He has a Monaco win. I personally believe the triple crown is harder to get than a WDC. If he gets a triple crown, he will go down in the history books as one of the greatest drivers who ever lived and not just "could've been" one of the greatest drivers to ever live.
Now if Helmut was having more power Lawson could still be in the prime position to get that second seat at Toro Rosso, but nope Horner and Rocky are increasing their powers on that area and look how worthless the junior program is becoming recently.
The last pure Red Bull academy driver (so not like being cut in support or also being backed by another academy like Honda) was promoted to F1 at the end of 2017, let that sink in.
I'll make a note. š That doesn't seem likely, but I guess that's the beauty of a long shot bet. No one remembers if you're wrong, but if you're right, you called it all along.
'Feeling a bit flat' Same narrative about the 'unknowns' and his 'feelings' when at McLaren. Slowly and sadly becoming the joke of the paddock. Pandered to by some of the RB who are realising another driver selection error. Lando stepped up, Yuki stepped up, Danny R didn't!!! 'Goofing around' is also a big price to pay when you are on the slide.
C'mon, we need to see Hamilton's Ferrari season at least before he goes. It's going to be either the best disaster or an absolute miracle, and I can't wait to see.
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>It was an 'open book, constructive criticism" as far as Daniel Ricciardo was concerned. Marko: *You're shit. Get better.*
Well, it's as constructive as it can get with Marko lol
Right? Marko does construction with a sledgehammer š.
Jeremy Clarkson vibes
Maybe Ricciardo should try using more POWEEEER.
also more SPEEEEEEEED
.... In the WOORRRRRRRRLD
That would require a V8 modur.
More like dynamite.
Exactly Criticism part: You're shit. Constructive part: Get better
Normally Marko just says "You're shit"
And didnāt involve any racismā¦maybe
Based on Perez' form, perhaps Danny needs to get worse
Or get more sponsorships
I'm not sure how accurate it is but someone here mentioned that Perez is worth about 50m in merchandise sales, and Ric has 90m in sponsor deals.
Dang! By those numbers they must really think Danny Ric's got the yips then!
Theyre getting that money either way with him at VCARB
Daniel has more sponsors than Perez
From the article it seems like it was with his direct team, not RB. VCARB name is fucking crazy making.
RB is his team.Ā
RB is my city
No RB was always Red Bull
Except currently, Red Bull is rbr, and vcarb is rb (supposedly for 'racing bulls', but we all know that's not really true).
RBR
Nobody called it that until this tragic marketing blunder, why should we change the current convention instead of giving the new one a different name? Its RB and VCARB not RBR and RB. Hill im willing to die on.
What are you talking about? Red Bull has been referred to as RBR or RB since they entered the sport
I think thereās added confusion now that people are referring to the (unofficially called) VCARB team as RB now. Like this headline. Which causes some confusion when youāve still got Red Bull/who are also sometimes referred to as RB, and RBR.
It has always been RBR tho.
> Nobody called it that until this tragic marketing blunder That's false, Red Bull Racing has been abreviated as RBR for more than a decade. Here are some threads as an example: 11 years ago https://redd.it/vrw34 https://redd.it/11r5nh 8 years ago https://redd.it/3rix53 7 years ago https://redd.it/5bbo2w 6 years ago https://redd.it/6n1z3a 4 years ago https://redd.it/cqtu84
I can confirm via a quick search that I've been calling Red Bull "RBR" in writing since at least 2019 when I started watching F1 regularly again. It's my preferred term: it sounds much more like an actual race team that might succeed than a bunch of twentysomething guys wearing too much Axe body spray and wound up on caffeine and sugar! Pretty sure you're just having one of those moments. :D https://xkcd.com/1053/
You dead then. Its RB and Torro Rosso.
Jaguar and Minardi
Stewart and Minardi.
*Even that mexicano is better than you...okay, he is not but, you're shit.*
*south american
Daniel: you cannot talk like this to me. Just wait till I tell Christian.
You didnt read the article, did you?
Wholesome Marko moment lol
"It is what it is mate."
I mean, that's his constructive criticism. His normal criticism is just "you are out by next race".
Checo is sitting in a RedBull seat due to his popularity and the money he brings in. Daniel is sitting in a RB seat due to his popularity and the money he brings in. There's really no difference. For those wondering, Daniel is managed by CAA, the biggest management company in the world, and they helped broker the deal between RBR and Visa, which is estimated to be worth $35MM. So they get a ton of money from that, money from merch sales, fans from Danny's popularity, & of course they get the biggest smile and latest braker on the grid.
I mean, there are a lot of drivers in the same situation but people seem to forget that.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That Albon situation was so odd, especially in 22. I think in Monaco they put the logo on the corner of his visor or something because he ignored blue flags for an entire lap. Must not have been able to see them.
āThis sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtonsā
No driver would be in f1 without sponsors. That's part of why Lawson doesn't have a contract yet. He did well subbing, but driving isn't enough, and he doesn't come with a major sponsor. Skill + money/sponsors/fans is the winning combo. Some lean more heavily one way or another, but they generally need both. Having a car company as a sponsor definitely feels like more of a skill related sponsor than a management company, though.
Yeah he needs to get Xero and Air NZ or someone on board who will throw a few million at him so he can get a seat. If hes going to get the similar results as DR but the team gets 30 million less a year, makes it a hard sell. VCARB is trying to make it profitable for a sale or just because it needs to make money now that the old RB owner isnt there.
Needs the Zuru billionaires on board.
Lando's dad also sponsored his seat for 3 years, IIRC it was 4M/year.
Thereās actually no valid source thatās reported anything like that. **If you find one feel free to share it.** The only outlets that have said anything in that vein are the random websites that post all sorts of crap in the hopes that something is true. Norrisā dad paid for his junior formula racing but he got his initial test with McLaren because he won the Autosport BRDC award
Agreed to this. I couldn't see anything outside of twitter journalism that says he paid anything after joining F1, but his dad did fund his whole junior career. There was also some talk at the time of paying for his endurance but nothing that was ever too heavily reported or covered by legit publications
dude you are making some wild assumptions, especially with Mick. winning F3, F2 suddenly happens if you have the fastest car? what a surprise! Piastri won freca, F3 and F2 in a row. Zhou, Lando and all of the drivers from the grid deserve to be there. they had great junior and karting careers. if someone brings money from sponsorship or has a good agency is suddenly a pay driver? parents make sacrificies for their kids to succed. lewis' dad worked 3 jobs and lewis was a mercedes driver since he was 13-14 years old based on what he achieved on track and on the sacrificies his family made. achieving good positions in society or is not something bad that should be called out. in every area of life you succed by being good at what you are doing and by having good people around you. this happens in any other sport, in business, in politics, in school(for example winning a team competition like robotics).
I think you misunderstood the original comment. They were arguing 80% of the current grid can be argued to be (or have been) a pay driver on the same basis, but only the ones who underperform tend to get pointed out. Nobody said these drivers donāt deserve to be on the grid, but that doesnāt mean their financial backing didnāt put them in advantageous positions at some point in their careers.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> winning F3, F2 suddenly happens if you have the fastest car In F2 and F3 everyone races the same specification cars, they aren't really meant to have any major performance differences...
Nah if you pay attention to feeder series you see that some team can just afford better mechanics and set up guys and it shows. Thatās why the some teams almost always end up at the top half of the grid
Dollars. It's all about the dollars. It's a business not a sport.
Yep. Itās the entertainment business. I work in it. People forget sports is part of the entertainment business. If itās not propped up by ticket sales, then itās propped up by advertising. Sports entertainment dollars can be driven by wins, but most often itās driven by the personalities. Too many foolish individuals are chasing some ideal around sportsmanship. Itās just not reality.
As long as Checoās in that seat we really shouldnāt complain about Danny driving for RBR.
Can't we just complain about both?
Donāt we complain about everything already lol
Yep. That's pretty standard fare for the internet.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
When you jerk off to f1 news everyday you grow numb to it
Yeah, Red Bull not signing Sainz feels like malpractice. RB keeping Daniel in their junior team over Lawson makes me wonder what the point of being in their driver's academy is.
I feel lawson is overrated by people on here, if he was that good then surely other teams would be trying to get him to join, but there's been absolutely no speculation about him getting a non VCARB seat. I think there's a slim chance he gets the seat next year, but it won't be yuki's (unless he leaves) and DR is improving
Where, though? That's the thing, there's a lot of talent but not enough seats. There are drivers that seen to havr stagnated but won't be moved simply because of either money they bring or it being riskier to take a rookie in a cost cap era. The ones who are most likely getting seats next, Antonelli & Bearman, are getting them because they're for Top teams in the future; usually the young ones that might get a chance in the team for RBR would go to RB but Daniel is there like the world's most PRable obstruction.
Thatās exactly it though; the cream more often than not rises to the top. If youāre a great driver, youāre getting a seat eventually. Lawson realistically isnāt a WDC caliber talent. So fundamentally, whatās the difference between having him in a RB vs Yuki or Ricc?
We can. Throw Tsunoda in for a few races-- nothing to lose.
I mean who is really, truly such better drivers than those two that are missing out? Lawson was fine, Doohan is fine, but they are not like world champions just waiting to burst through. Why do we always have to complain?p
Complaining is not necessarily bad, it can be quite cathartic. I don't understand the need to make others censure themselves, as long as they're not being disrespectful. And, it's not that they *will* be immediately better but Checo & Daniel seem to have stagnated and rookies theoretically have more room to grow. Even if they weren't better, they *would* be phased out more easily and not act like the bottle neck these drivers currently are.
Both checo and Daniel have had above average F1 careers. It's therefore unlikely that even if you give some rookies room to grow they will ever have a career as good as either of these drivers, so I don't see the rush to boot them out of F1 at the first opportunity
Isn't the discussion that this isn't the first opportunity? Checo held on to P2 last year through God's will in a ridiculously dominant car and we've been waiting for years for Daniel to be truly *back*. I agree they were pretty good, Daniel more so than Checo to me, but they simply are not those drivers anymore. Or, at least, they haven't convincingly proven they are consistently up there. And, again, if the rookies don't cut it they will be removed because there won't be a "He's Back" discussion or something. It should keep the market dynamic.
Perez was definitely very good in 2020. Now his average gaps to Max are not bigger than they were in 2021. Before Canada his average gaps to Max this season were smaller than in any previous season in Red Bull. Don't the data post-canada, but it's not like Perez was getting lapped or anything so the average won't change a ton. So unless Max has regressed between 2021 and now, there really is zero reason to believe, or zero proof, that Perez has regressed at all, unless we believe he became shit between 2020 and 2021. Daniel is a different story. He used to compete with World Champions, now he's getting lapped in equal cars by Norris. We have proof to say he's regressed massively. We don't have sch proof for Perez.
The past is the past. In the case of Danny Ric he has been underwhelming since his days at McLaren. At some point you have to say "you were good in the past, but those days are long since over".
Lawson did as well as Ricciardo and Yuki immediately, which means he's on the same level as them with the difference that he's still a rookie that can grow much higher. And I definitely disagree on the idea that Lawon is "not a world champion waiting to burst through". He has enough potential to win an F1 championship.
we should be
Not when DR out performs Checo on a semi-regular basis
Has that ever happened in a race in the last two years without DNF's?
Has Checo had a DNF that couldnāt have been prevented if he wasnāt qualifying P18 in a Red Bull?
It's a bit of a bullshit argument. We had contact in the front in every single race these past 4 weekends. In Monaco Carlos was saved from a DNF by a red flag. We've had contacts between LEC and VER for P1 plenty of times these past 2 years. I don't think I should have to even mention 2021. Drivers fight for position up and down the grid. QUalifying down the grid doesn't mean it's your fault if you get crashed out of the race. And just FYI, 2 weekends is not a semi-regular basis.
The logical thing wouldāve been to promote Yuki and keep Daniel and seat Liam in yukis car for next season..
The same CAA with Jimmy Sexton? Daniel will die in that seat then
CAA is the Big Daddy of agencies.
Yep. Tons of A-List celebs in all aspects (entertainment, sports, etc)
Back in 2022, the total contract value of their athlete sector alone was nearly $18b. Insane how big (and good) they are.
Checo is sitting in a RedBull because he was 4th in 2021, 3rd in 2022 and 2nd in 2023. He brings in money because he scores points. He also doesn't fight with Max and I really think that's all that Red Bull cares about. No other racer in the field would be as satisfied just sitting behind Max as Checo is, which is why Daniel was bumped out of Red Bull in the first place. He's not really that far off from 2nd place in 2024. His DNFs in Monaco and Canada really hurt but all he has to do is get back to picking up 2nd places and he'll finish this season strong. As long as he keeps Red Bull #1 in the Constructors he'll be fine. If they drop to 2nd place, they'll start looking to trade him.
That doesnāt leave much hope for Lawson
35MM seems cheap to be a headline sponsor in F1. TeamViewer pay Man U Ā£47mm a year to be the shirt sponsor (not Team Viewer Man Utd)
> Checo is sitting in a RedBull seat due to his popularity and the money he brings in. > > Daniel is sitting in a RB seat due to his popularity and the money he brings in. There's really no difference. Except one of the two is bringing in way more money. If it were the other way around DR would be in the second seat.
> For those wondering, Daniel is managed by CAA, the biggest management company in the world, and they helped broker the deal between RBR and Visa Nuh uh, I watched DTS, he got the seat because of how fast he was during that one test session.
Every Ricciardo post here results in the same tired list of generic angry comments
It's insane because literally the people at VCARB are saying, directly, "we are no longer a junior team for RBR, we are doing our own thing" and people rage froth at the mouth, "They need to bring in Lawson or their junior program is dead!" Like, teams have helped their junior drivers by also securing seats for them at teams like Williams, Alfa Romeo etc. It doesn't HAVE to be a team that's affiliated with them. And VCARB has to move away from their Red Bull affiliations or there will be accusations of collusion. They NEED to prioritize their own results. And if it's true that Ricciardo brings money to the team and that's why they have him, there are way worse drivers on the grid than him that deserve the spotlight. Zhou and Stroll are essentially pay drivers. You have no business watching this sport if you think either of them will have a chance against Ricciardo 1:1. And no offense, but I'd eat my shoe before I bet money on Bottas beating Ricciardo. People seem to have a weird obsession with thinking Bottas is better than he's been showing. Ricciardo has almost as many wins as he does and he got those wins with a much slower car. He's literally BEATEN Bottas on track in a slower car. Sure, that was "years" ago. It's also been a long time since Bottas got points too. If you can blame the car for him, you can blame the car for DR.
Well said!
THANK YOU!Ā
Yeah man. Wish we could just stop talking about it and let nature take it's course. But of course, we're f1 fans. Speculating to the moon and ranting runs in our blood.
I mean itās a forum dedicated to formula 1 and the races are far apart at the moment. What else should be people aside from speculating and shooting the shit? Weāre all thirsty for content and eating up any content posted.
It's the Reddit bots. They just repeat old comments and shit. There's other subs suffering from the same thing. Reddit going public turned this place to shit.
All of the Ricciardo posts have really just turned into ragebait at this point.
Articles of either him, Checo, Mick or Ocon are just easy engagement farms. People get so riled up just by seeing their name and get into pointless arguments with each other. It's perfect for websites to boost clicks during slow news days/non race weeks.
Which is why there's these blurbs about him every week. He's an easy engagement farm
Whatās wrong with the quality of the air?
*"He believes there's something wrong with the air, that's why he is getting less downforce than yuki. The team will have new air ready for him in Spain"* - Probably Christian Horner.
Someone farted in his motorhome
Believe a similar thing happened to Jenson Button.
*happened to Alonsoās car!!!
Was more thinking about the motorhome gas incident.
š
Motorhome regs gonna change in 2026 for less dirty air
If Danny Ric was clearly beating Yuki every race, thereās no doubt in my mind he wouldāve been handed Checoās seat given his dismal performance this year. Ric just didnāt do a good enough job and missed his chance to get back into Redbull. Unless he starts destroying yuki the rest of the year and early next year, heās never going back to the main team.
I have a feeling Horner was expecting DR to come in wipe the floor with Yuki and then be promoted to the top team this year. While im the biggest DR fan he really hasnt done enough to justify it. I am curious if what the said in DTS was actually correct or if just for the cameras as if its the RB car could he be putting it in the top of the grid? As fas as I remember Max and DR liked the same style of car. Pointy with a looser rear. Could be wrong on that though.
Now how funny would it be if DR starts stepping up to even par with Yuki but RB is stuck in Perez's contract now.
I'd be willing to bet there's get out clauses for RBR should they really want to get Ric into Checo's seat.
I'm doubtful of that. I think they keep Checo at Red Bull to sell more energy drinks in Mexico, where it's very competitive with Monster.
If he signs another contract, it will be entertaining to see the rage fests on the internet. Not that I disagree with him not being up to par to still fill that seat. Just that the amount of outrage will be funny to me personally.
He will. Itās a business and he brings a lot of value to the team. I suspect that if the right bid came up, RB would sell the sister team to Andretti (for example), and having a name well recognized in the US as one of the drivers, who also happens to have experience helping engineers with car development feedback, seems like a sensible pitch that might be made.
Oh, I have no doubt since the man is marketable. It will however provide a lot of angry threads as there have been so far that I found amusing.
I totally agree with that. I will say though that, some of Yukiās increase in performance can be due to input that DR gave to the engineers based on his feel in the car. He even talked about using a button on the steering wheel to mark points on the track where he felt something and wanted to check it out with the engineers. I know that we compare driver performance to each other a lot, but I do think that he has benefitted the team, even though heās struggled to gain points early in the season.
Fair. I feel like his main problem, considering we can still see flashes of his driving skills, is in his head. And if remember correctly, he's pretty much admitted that this season in an interview. So if he could just get it straight in his head, there's always a possibility for him to consistently be better again.
Completely agree - itās all mental for him. If it clicks, his ceiling is much higher than Yuki.
Thats what it says in the article. Basically he feels at the beginning he was doing to many other commitments and came to the race not 100% refreshed. He even made an off hand comment about as a young guy you come in and race, when your older you have alot more on your mind and its harder to get into that 100% pure focused racing.
Lol you guys are so close to the truth. Even when he's admitting that his heart's just not in it anymore in your head you think it's a switch he can just flick on and be 8 years younger.
Yeah, I think heās showing signs of improvement, but weāll see if it sticks.
All drivers have a button on the steering wheel to mark things that they want to discuss with their engineers later, this isnāt some revolutionary thing.
Yeah, only thing Iād add that Iāve not seen from others is that they respond to his ticks in real time without him audibly asking for anything. For example, he locked the rear into T10 during the formation lap in Canada, he pressed the tick button and a couple seconds later they acknowledged and addressed it although he was completely silent over the radio.
No, I know, I just thought it was interesting that he mentioned it because you donāt usually hear drivers mention it.
So can we stop pretending f1 is a sport since it's just a business full of pay drivers. The label 'world champion' is a bit dubious
I mean all professional sports are businesses. There is still competition, but who drives and who doesnāt is very much a business decision (or a series of business decisions) that teams make. They still compete for points that very much determine royalty allocation. I suspect that without sponsors, all teams would be competing to avoid losing money as opposed to competing while making money.
Its been a sport* forever. The real competition happens between engineers. RB has shown that you just need one great driver and a competetive car to make it work.
As long as the prize money does not upset the money a driver brings in this will happen. Espceially for teams that cant fight for a high WDC spot anyway.
This all came out Thursday last weekend. He was disappointed with his performance, he wanted to get honest feedback from people where they thought he was wrong outside of driving the car to see if people had insight he was missing. I donāt understand. First he does too much off track stuff and doesnāt focus on driving. Then he does focus on driving but itās not the right kind of focus? What the hell do people want from him?
From what he said about talking to Laurent Mekies, it seems like he still had a lot of media commitments that were taking a lot of his time, iirc just a couple of weeks ago for example they had him travel to turkey for a Visa thing, and before that they sent him to Poland for an Orlen thing.
Thatās what it seems like. Itās more just how people are talking in general
To beat Yuki
Horner wonāt allow Marko to have a driver of his choosing in any of Red Bull teams again. Also, Ricciardo is close with him and brings money thanks to CAA.Ā
Lawson my boi needs to find another seat.
Apparently RB isn't requiring much to be shown on the track for a re-sign so RIC has that going for him.
Ric has been pretty damn good on track lately though you goobers lol
He's had one good race and one good sprint. At the start of the year people were predicting he should be beating Yuki, however, Yuki is wiping the floor with him.
Selling merch is enough apparently.
That and not crashing into your teammate does wonders
They replaced the air filter. Everyone agreed they were happy at that point.
+200hp, beats Yuki by a minute in Spain.
K&N sticker +10hp
All jokes aside: what would concern me about this as a fan would be the idea that prior to the meeting there was no opportunity for this. Are people not allowed to offer him constructive criticism normally? He literally talks about looking at his own data, doing "self-therapy"... *"I just basically wanted to know, 'What do you guys think is going wrong? Tell me if there's something you see from me."* How is an underperforming driver not hearing this regularly, after every single race? *"I'd rather people just be very direct with me."* Then why isn't it happening? This seems is another float in the DR PR parade, reassuring everyone he's trying to improve, but if that's the case it still doesn't make a ton of sense. You're only having these conversations now? I think a problem with DR's PR stuff these days is that it seems so out of touch. He's still affable and likeable but the narratives he puts out in these articles don't... quite make sense. I think it may be why people are getting frustrated with him, all the media tap-dancing. Just be yourself, enjoy your remaining time in F1, do your best, adjust to new expectations.
Did you see the Canada weekend? Qualified 5th and raced pretty decent for points. Without the penalty and the team making a bad strategy call, he could have finished ahead of the Astons... at least one of them.
My comment is largely about the PR strategy here and over the last few months. This article implies he doesn't get constructive criticism from his team normally and people aren't direct with him. I guess I assumed all drivers, including winner, would get constructive criticism and feedback after every single race, and that it wouldn't be newsworthy. I said nothing about his performance on track except he's underperformed this season.
I'm pretty sure I replied to the wrong person. Sorry.
No worries! I mean... kudos to him for Canada. He hustled.
Except he's wildly inconsistent. And that's being generous. If a non race winner were performing like this, we'd say his good races are outliers and not reflective of reliable skill. All of his points come from 2 races: one sprint and Canada. Not a good look. *No hate, I'm just trying to be objective.
Yeah... agreed. Well... No. He's not been inconsistent. He's been pretty consistent for the most part. Unfortunately, the inconsistency is "Qualifies shit. Races great. Finishes poorly largely due to forces outside his control" If he had qualifying nailed, this wouldn't be a conversation. Even if he wasn't beating Yuki at all... just... don't qualify 17th.
Yeah. I guess consistent in a way that is generally incompatible with scoring points. Not ideal, even if he's just trying to fend off Lawson and hold onto his vcarb seat. Maybe having a new and clearer role - non leadership/second driver with some development influence - will help? Who knows.
Not to take it away from him, however that was with at least three cars that should have been in there missing. Normal service weekend he wouldn't have been in the points. That goes for Aston as well, they were flattered by the two Ferraris and Perez not turning up. Whilst points are points, it doesn't show a performance improvement.
A normal weekend, maybe? But that doesn't really have anything to do with this specific situation. In the same world where everything happened exactly the way it did with the exception of VCARB fucking the clutch and the strategy, he would have finished likely ahead of Stroll. Probably not ahead of Alonso tho. Ricciardo was 7th when the Safety car came out. If he pitted right away instead of a lap later and if he didn't have the penalty, he would likely have remained 7th, as they had plenty of a gap. If Yuki didn't pit (as was the case in the actual race), Ricciardo may have come out in 8th behind Yuki. But because he came out in 10th, he was in the Ocon and Albon mess. Without VCARB screwing him with the clutch situation, and the penalty, Ricciardo likely would have finished 7th... and again... if he qualifies better, no one is having a problem with Ricciardo. He is actually racing way better than Yuki each race with the exception of a couple.
Just saying it's not an improvement in performance, it's a good race for him. Similar to a situation we have seen in the past, if you are normally outside of the points, but a freak situation with crashes puts you on the podium, it's a good result, however, doesn't mean you improved any, but you had a good race. With both Ferraris and Perez in normal positions anywhere in the top 10 then he isn't scoring, like normal, nor are the Alpines.
Itās funny that he talks about energy management because after his sprint performance in Miami I thought the reason for his drop off in quali looked like fatigue. He just didnāt seem as sharp as he did a few hours earlier, which is understandable given how hard he had to fight in the race.
I didn't think of it like that but that could be true as well. But it was also to do with tyres. He had one out lap on new tyres and one hot lap after. It just wasn't in the right window. Same thing happened to Lando in sprint. He was good in sq1 and sq2 but sq3 he lost it.Ā
I find it hilarious how the gammut of conversations run from Ricciardo being promoted to Red Bull, to Ricciardo losing his VCARB seat and ending his F1 career
Clear the seat talks
I think if DR3 can close the gap to <3-5 points, he stays. At that point, it's more or less a weekend or single result difference between the two. I'm a *huge* DR fan, like, I honestly think my ability to get up at 2 am for certain races will be completely killed for a long time after he goes. But in my opinion, it might be time. Yuki is great, and he's made a lot of progress over the last year, especially. But Yuki is, at best, Ocon or Gasly level. In a fast car, he can steal a win and maybe secure a few podiums. But Yuki, at this stage, hasn't shown he can beat Leclerc or Russell or Lando, let alone that he can go wheel to wheel with Max or Hamilton. So for Danny to be completely outclassed by Yuki, at what point do you stop blaming the car? DR should be beating Yuki *convincingly* if his goal is to show he's "the old Danny" and not just "old Danny". But maybe this is about being clear about your goal. If his goal isn't to win a WDC and it's just to hang out on the grid, take advantage of the visibility and marketability to do what he loves (which is racing F1 cars), then be honest about it and lean into it. But I don't think that's his goal. He has always said he wants to be a champion... And if it's not going to happen in F1, the least he can do is make room for Lawson and use his strong position in the market to secure an Indy seat with a top team. He has a Monaco win. I personally believe the triple crown is harder to get than a WDC. If he gets a triple crown, he will go down in the history books as one of the greatest drivers who ever lived and not just "could've been" one of the greatest drivers to ever live.
Iām a Danny fan and Iām tired of reading about it. Do it, and if you canāt, call it a career. It was a good one, better than most.
This is so unfair for Lawson
Now if Helmut was having more power Lawson could still be in the prime position to get that second seat at Toro Rosso, but nope Horner and Rocky are increasing their powers on that area and look how worthless the junior program is becoming recently. The last pure Red Bull academy driver (so not like being cut in support or also being backed by another academy like Honda) was promoted to F1 at the end of 2017, let that sink in.
Gasly Albon?
Albon was dropped from the driver academy in the past before he entered F1. Funny enough it's Gasly who is the last pure RB driver who made it in F1
He is not fast at all.
Hopefully they see sense and start planning his PR work. He's nowhere good enough to drive in F1 anymore. Give Lawson a chance.
Bro, it's not happening. Move to WEC already.
Ricciardo will beat Yuki when the season is finished. Mark that down.
I'll make a note. š That doesn't seem likely, but I guess that's the beauty of a long shot bet. No one remembers if you're wrong, but if you're right, you called it all along.
I'll give him that, he's always honest with himself..
'Feeling a bit flat' Same narrative about the 'unknowns' and his 'feelings' when at McLaren. Slowly and sadly becoming the joke of the paddock. Pandered to by some of the RB who are realising another driver selection error. Lando stepped up, Yuki stepped up, Danny R didn't!!! 'Goofing around' is also a big price to pay when you are on the slide.
Sadly this type of headline has become so common for my boy š
Boring. Leave F1 already, give the seat to new blood.
So should a third of the grid. Alonso, Hamilton, Hulk, Bottas, Perez, Stroll. But we single out DR for some reason.
Na man, of you list only BotASS and StrLOL should be dumped along side Riccardo.
Hamilton and Perez are both being washed by their teammate more than Ricciardo. Hulk taking a spot from another Jr as well. Your bias is showing.
C'mon, we need to see Hamilton's Ferrari season at least before he goes. It's going to be either the best disaster or an absolute miracle, and I can't wait to see.
is this the first still he has had such talks with his team? If true, this is alarming to me. All these years, heās just been blaming the car?
There is that something familiar about that Australian Ben Simmons and that Australian Dan Ric.