Why are so many people on an F1 forum mad that people are talking about F1?
People will talk about the last race until the next race. It's not unusual.
What's interesting is that the comments mostly say they're sick of this discussion, yet any post with an analysis that is more Max positive gets showered in upvotes whereas any analysis that is critical of Max gets downvoted to oblivion.
I expect RB to be above their top game. For simple reason, they lost on their home track and now are on Britains playground. They‘ll be on a mission here.
I guess it depends on when somebody started watching F1. This used to be normal. Two drivers battle it out on track and one or both get a punctured tire, or both go off track.
It's become more rare in the age of DRS and progressively more rare at that. Plus more and more people don't really watch the whole race.
It's a shame really because its a distraction from Russell winning and Piastri and Sainz getting a podium.
Not even this season, it's one of the most exciting battles in F1 in two whole years. I love the midfield battles but battles at the front have the highest stakes.
Honestly hope that it keeps happening because the continuous melt downs are starting to swing around to being hilarious. It’s been three days of non-stop stupidity and I want to see how long we all can keep it up
As someone that likes both driver but not like a dedicated fan, it's hilarious from the start, especially fan's reaction from both sides, reading through all the salt is funny af.
Friday. The race was a snore until this happened it’s going to be the media talking point till then. No one really cared about the rest of the race. Kind of always the case when there’s a crash for the lead really.
Maybe my view on this is too simple, but I just think it was two drivers racing each other. They touched a little. The cars then fell apart like they were made out of Papier-mâché. If the cars and tires would be sturdier, nobody would be even talking about this.
Yeah, when Max leaves F1 in a couple of years to go to WEC and enjoy the life without insane media. He doesn’t care about the number of WDC, and his absence will leave a cloud of “Yeah, but if Max were racing…”
No shit Karun, its almost as if Lando purposefully wanted to compromise Max's entry into that corner and thats why he didn't go onto the curb. Both drivers were hoping that the other would yield, but neither did, therefore, boom crash.
Exactly. In any racing situation a driver can move aggressively towards another and if the other driver backs out then it’s great hard racing. If the other driver doesn’t then there’s a crash and the aggressor gets a penalty.
Max has made a career of making these sorts of moves. It’s worked out for him pretty much every time. Norris decided to draw a line in the sand and not yield. Therefore the crash is Max’s fault but I t’s not a monstrously dirty move that he made. He got his 10 second penalty we move on.
It will be very interesting to see what happens the next time these two come wheel to wheel. Will one of them be less aggressive? Will one of them yield more easily? Will neither yield and we get more crashes?
I can’t wait to find out and hopefully they’re battling for another win this weekend.
Max will never be less aggressive. We already know that.
Norris has the faster car, playing the long game is his responsibility.
when Max has the faster car, even he gets out of the way of such moves ala Sainz vs him at the same turn last season.
when you have the better car, you are the one supposed to avoid the contact
Lando never had the fastest car. He is not used to this high level battle.
Max probably expected superior wheel to wheel skills, like when he was fighting Leclerc or Hamilton. But Lando isn't there yet and Max knows that from now on.
If you're hunting for reasons why Lando didn't go to the curb, it's because he didn't need to. Max wasn't on that line, and he's not allowed to move in the braking zone of another car.
Lando was on the outside line, Lando had every right to think Max wouldn't move across *because Max chose to defend the inside.*
Sure, he didn't have a responsibility to move outside. So in that sense, Lando was right, he did nothing wrong. I hope being right was worth ending the race over.
At the end of the day, both drivers could have taken action that would have avoided contact. Max's aggressive defense caused the incident, and he got penalized for it, but the fact of the matter is that Lando could have avoided the contact that ended his race, and he didn't. But he was in the right, so maybe that's worth it to him?
Reminds me of the old sentiment that the morgue is full of drivers that had the right-of-way.
Not quite as serious here obviously but yeah still correlates.
Flip it around and you can say the same for Max.
Max got off lucky but I suppose if you are leading a championship you can just fail to finish if your nearest rival also fails to finish.
Sure, Lando had the right to be there, i dont think anyone is seriously arguing that. However, by not yielding to Ver his race was ended, while Max was also given the appropriate penalty and finished comfortably in the points.
Its one of those situations where being technically correct probably wasn't the right answer given the lack of impact on his competitor.
> However, by not yielding to Ver his race was ended, while Max was also given the appropriate penalty and finished comfortably in the points.
A bit nitpicky, but I think what ultimately ended his race was Lando pushing a car with a puncture to the pits rather than taking it easy like Max.
He likely could've limped back to the pits and still made points, but he chose to push which ended up shredding his tire and the back end of the car.
He can be mad at Max for the puncture, but the damage to the car which forced him to retire was likely on him.
> Lando was on the outside line, Lando had every right to think Max wouldn't move across because Max chose to defend the inside.
What? He was in the middle of the track, and his one move was to the left before braking as literally everyone else does, and this is all before Norris even arrives up next to him.
Only one was required to “yield” which is why only one got a penalty.
You lose more points in the long run if your opponent knows you can be relied on to yield.
Yeah, should we congratulate Lando for being technically correct? Does 0 points sound good?
As we see every week, the outside driver gets pushed wider than they want and since they don’t want to crash they move over slightly.
Lando either judged his distance poorly or chose to crash because he didn’t think he would be able to pass any other way.
Edit: lol he blocked me so I’ll leave my response here.
You know what would have benefitted Lando in his fight for making Max respect him? Winning when your car is clearly faster.
It's a season, where Lando hopes to be in a position to challenge Max in many more races.
If he sets a precident where he yields where he shouldn't have to, that's going to give him a problem all season.
Now Max knows that if he's agressive he can fuck his own race as well.
So, yes I think Lando did the right thing.
If you think Verstappen will be less aggressive after this, you haven't been watching for a long time. Verstappen knows Norris has a short fuse and will push him much harder to force a mistake.
That’s such an insane thing to say given that almost all of the best drivers ever were very aggressive.
Pushing Lando a few inches wider into a corner wouldn’t even register on the list of aggressive moves that they employ almost every battle.
If max wouldn’t do the exact same thing next time he is in the situation he wouldn’t be a 3x world champion.
No? In all those cases the receiving car moves a bit further to the left. Max anticipated that Norris would do that but he wouldn't budge (which was technically correct). Tldr; shit happens
In this case yes, but it's hard to predict who's going to end up with more damage in a crash. If it happens more often it could also end Max' race. That's just the way it goes most often.
The guy on the outside will lose 90% of the time, it's why fighting while on the outside is dumb and everyone squeezes. Being on the inside has much lower risks.
Just ask Albon about being on the outside of Hamilton.
The guy on the outside will lose 90% of the time, it's why fighting while on the outside is dumb and everyone squeezes. Being on the inside has much lower risks.
Just ask Albon about being on the outside of Hamilton.
Ok, so he chose to crash. Thats what I said…
Max doesn’t give a shit about Lando and absolutely has his number. His attempts to pass with a much faster car last week after just not defending on Saturday will embolden Max if anything.
That’s such a wild take lol.
In the above picture there’s the 2 of the most successful drivers of the last 3 decades ‘yielding’ to an aggressive block to avoid contact in the exact same scenario. But one win Lando was smarter to not just slightly yield?
I don’t know what Lando should’ve done. But if I were him I’d be taking race craft lessons from Hamilton and Verstappen tbh.
Lando chose not to give the advantage to Max by moving out of his way unnecessarily.
Max assumed Lando would get out his way. Something he likely won’t be doing again.
Why wouldn’t he do it again? He got +10 points and that is how you battle for position. Every single race multiple people are pushed much further off and they avoid the crash.
Nothing about last race would tell max that he shouldn’t do it again turn one this weekend.
You’re assuming Max will come away better every time. Could have easily been Max DNFing.
If Max not relying on Norris to yield secures him two wins later in the season, then it’s more than made up for it.
It also reduced the gap between Max and Charles if Ferrari come back into the picture.
I don’t assume that. Do you think this is the first time Max has bumped wheels with someone while aggressively attacking or defending?
Oh no! Championship back on Ferrari are making a move apparently…
It’s very simple so I’ll break it down for you.
Max has two options now:
- Keep crashing into cars he knows won’t move
- Or drive without making contact by leaving the space the rules require.
I wonder what 3x world champion max verstappen will do after a tiny wheel bump - change his driving style to play it safe so he doesn’t ever bump wheels with anyone and risk his car or drive like he actually wants to win…
Let’s break this down again.
If a 3x world champion knows someone will yield, he’ll use that against them.
If he knows they won’t… the strategy stops working.
>Keep crashing into cars he knows won’t move
As long as it nets him more points than second place gets, it's a win for him.
>Or drive without making contact by leaving the space the rules require.
What rule?
Literally every comment is saying the story is old but the post has a lot of upvotes. People are still interested and care about the precedent this sets.
Could someone please put a shot where Max had to put his whole car on the kerb avoiding a collision with Sainz coming at him after the start at Silverstone ‘22?
Max has learned that lesson Karun is talking about long time ago.
Rule states you have to leave a cars width inside the white line. In the other examples, they didnt, but the other driver let themselves get pushed wide to avoid making contact. You could argue that would be smart, but the driver is also entitled to chose not to move, as they are supposed to be given enough space.
This was pretty much a racing incident with two people refusing to give an inch. The earlier battles had far more to discuss than this. Its unbelievably unlucky for both that it ended with a puncture, taps like this happen relatively often without consequence. But if you have to assign blame, which you do when it ends in disaster, then it goes to the person who didnt leave a cars width inside the white line. Why cant they just leave it at that.
Probably because a lot of people's first reaction was that Max needed his racing license revoked for trying to assassinate Lando. I think people were triggered, actively tried to see this in the same light as the 2021 battles more generally, and that is also triggering others.
I’m hoping for a 10+ second win, plus a no British podium. Maybe something like Verstappen, Sainz, LeClerc and Piastri combo in some fashion so the media can really get into thier feelings
No one wants to see British drivers on the podium this weekend. Max is going to get booed hard they'd have to edit clapping and cheering into his winning ceremony. I hope Alonso gets P2 and Sainz P3, so the British cucks have absolutely no idea who to cheer for.
Enough. I don't want to hear it anymore. I thought this was a racing incident at first but now after hearing the same goddamn thing for the umpteenth time I'm gonna pin this on Lando. Max was ahead, he picked a line and Lando chose not to evade him. Skill issue, clearly. 5 seconds for Ocon, Magnussen to the stewards and 10.000 peso penalty for Stroll for speeding in the pit lane.
If it happened lap one, it would have been a racing incident. Yes, Max was at fault. The bigger issue was the late defense Max was doing on prior laps.
Sainz did the same but probably worse to max last but max just moved to the left abit and avoided 🤷 not saying it should have happend at all but the same time lando could have moved abit then pushed for max to get the penalty and still get a good run down the next drs and mabey do or die down there
No, that would actually be terrible. Do you want every battle to be decided by the stewards trying to determine if there was 2 inches too little space left on the outside?
Should both drivers have to give so much room to be safe from the stewards that you cannot compromise anyone else’s line to defend/overtake?
One unlucky bump finishes one of the best battles of the last two seasons and you want to eliminate any chance of the crash happing so much that you are willing to eliminate the battle to do it.
Being that all six cars here are fully within track limits and touching pavement with all four wheels, I don't think that premise is violated, at least not in spirit.
My take on this is simple. Both are at fault. Max more. But they had it coming. Lando sending it from another zipcode a couple of times with the assumption that Max will just move aside. Max slightly moving whilst Lando was alongside his rear, making Lando react a bit.. the first defense wasn't moving under braking. He simply was taking the Apex because Lando was so far back imo.
Then the incident. Lando did nothing to avoid the crash whilst having time to react. Max didn't exactly move in a lightning fast and big manner. Max simply should have not moved outside. It was a dumb build up with a dumb outcome. Hard and slightly over the fair play limit from both. Stop acting as if Max shunted Lando off the track. You all are acting like this is some sort of Silverstone 2021 situation. I am baffled that that slight touch did so much damage to both cars. That was unfortunate. Without the tyres popping nobody would yell about it anymore.
Idk if this is a controversial but Landon doesn't have to give up the best racing line he legitimately douped Max away from with his move as the rules clearly state he is entitled to a cars width from the line. Landon is entitled to stay there more than Max is entitled to move over which is against the rules. If they touch, Max should be the one to re-consider next time. Not Landon.
I think Lando held his line on purpose. He was fed up of Max moving in the braking zone and going off track to maintain position. So he made the conscious decision not to deviate. He probably didn't expect the contact but similar to Silverstone 2021 it was a driver putting his foot down and saying "Nope, I'm not yielding to you anymore".
No doubt that, *in theory* (practice is very different, we just don't know) Lando could have moved a little more to the curbs
However 1) he was already on the limit for track limits violations and 2) as true as it may be that there were at least alternate possibilities, this fact Karun has pointed out should not and cannot be used in order to shift blame for the incident itself.
The entire subreddit has basically gone full on into this was lando's fault. *At best* they'll give a cursory "yeah the contact was on Max" except there's always a "but" after that and far, far more words written about how this is actually all on Lando.
The things is this, check your damn mirrors before moving over. Turning in blindly was what caused the contact.
The guy on outside is not obligated to straddle the kerbs. He is within his rights to hold his line.
Max misjudged the gap between the two cars when putting on the squeeze. It was a small mistake. Move on.
was it max's predominantly max's fault? yes. was it a very egregious or dangerous move? no. is squeezing your rival into the entry of a corner a normal racing move? yes. did the contact and resulting consequence of the incident make it look like a bigger incident than it actually was? again, yes
Funny how people are so knowledgeable about rules in F1 until their favorite driver breaks and it turns into a mental gymnastics competition
Certain drivers didn't move under breaking, and one did and hit someone.
You're within your rights to push someone off the track, and if that person doesn't move and you hit em, it's 100 percent your fault. It's like a tackle in football. All fun and useful until you break someone's legs
Everybody is watching the wrong stuff. Max got a penalty for causing a collision. That was when he literally drove into Lando. Not the part (a second) before where he was merely defending like a thousand other drivers have done before.
Would you rather be "correct" or in the race?
Norris ended up getting fewer points than Perez this weekend because of his inability to soak pressure and his awful race craft.
His car was more than fast enough that he'd have found a way through within 7 laps.
He's too impatient and has no idea how to win.
That is literally how you race. You defend the inside, get the other driver to commit to going on your outside, then try to squeeze as far as they’ll go to open up the corner and not compromise your exit. Almost always the outside driver obliges if it’s not putting them in too bad of a position, as you’ve surely seen from every other clip in this same corner.
I agree. Lando would have easily moved a couple of inches to the left and probably gotten a switch around and overtake at turn 4. You know what they say, it's not about being right all the time. Sometimes you have to be smart and improvise. If he did what Max did against Sainz, he would have won the race.
Yeah max is going to purposefully run wide as is a perfectly standard defense for a turn like this. Objective is to destroy Landos exit onto the straight (which has DRS…)
Lando knows this, but as usual gets desperate and shits the bed when the pressures on, he should have tried a switch back. Prioritised his exit and banked on the DRS.
Or he should have waited for a safety car, since that’s his only tool.
Not sure though maybe this has been updated since 2022?
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/60815007
Unfortunately, the document sent out by the the FIA refers to the wrong number of article in the sporting regulations - it indicates the number this clause had last year - 27.4 - not the number it has this year, which is 33.4.
The document was sent out to teams only at the Bahrain Grand Prix, and it does not refer directly to the stipulations in the sporting code to do with dangerous driving.
This says: "More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted.
"Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.
"However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited. Any driver who appears guilty of any of the above offences will be reported to the stewards."
All the driving who were pushed wide and avoided contact did not have to. they did it because they wanted to live and fight another day and that’s not an excuse for the drivers on the inside who decided to run their opponents out of road. No one should yield just because it’s Verstappen you’re racing. Norris was right not to yield.
So many people can have this on the tombstone: "I was in the right".
Ultimately, Lando should have taken advantage of bringing Max out of position and do what Nax did to Sainz, switch back, use the DRS and win the race. I'm not convinced he will learn from this, just try next time even more desperately
I’m just gonna blame Maldonado for all this.
Finally, someone sensible.
Nah it was Ericsson. Ericsson hit Lando
My uncle Frank had a much better analysis than anyone I've heard so far. To quote him directly, "Shit happens."
I like your uncle Frank. More people should aspire to be like Frank
I think your uncle Frank would probably agree with Jeremy Clarkson on this one. These things happen in motor racing.
Why are so many people on an F1 forum mad that people are talking about F1? People will talk about the last race until the next race. It's not unusual.
Any prolonged investigation and criticism of Max is unfair and overblown according to r/formula1
What's interesting is that the comments mostly say they're sick of this discussion, yet any post with an analysis that is more Max positive gets showered in upvotes whereas any analysis that is critical of Max gets downvoted to oblivion.
You're a hundred percent correct.
This story gotta die at some point, right?
Depends where Max and Lando qualify in Saturday
Here’s my guess for the top ten in order Lando George Max Piastri Leclerc Hamilton Sainz Perez Gasly Stroll
Bold to assume that Checo and Aston Martin to get into Q3!
Yeah stroll in P3 is a serious reach after seeing their performance last weekend.
The tracks are wildly different tho. But yes, i agree!
And no Hulk in Q3 is also unrealistic at this point.
If Max isn't P1 Perez isn't in Q3
Honestly Hulk has made it to Q3 way too many times in a Haas to disregard him here
Max is gonna take an engine penalty just to get tf away from the discourse
I expect RB to be above their top game. For simple reason, they lost on their home track and now are on Britains playground. They‘ll be on a mission here.
It’s been literally 3 and some change days. Did anyone really expect people to not talk about it this whole week?
*Especially* when it's meant a surge in ticket sales at Silverstone just after they were complaining that it was looking bleak?
"Silverstone ticket prices are too high" *max and Lando crash drama* "Nevermind, we're breaking all sales records!"
I guess it depends on when somebody started watching F1. This used to be normal. Two drivers battle it out on track and one or both get a punctured tire, or both go off track. It's become more rare in the age of DRS and progressively more rare at that. Plus more and more people don't really watch the whole race. It's a shame really because its a distraction from Russell winning and Piastri and Sainz getting a podium.
I don’t think two drivers crashing for the lead has ever really been normal. People still talk about Turkey 2010 and the Prost vs senna incidents
You expect people to stop talking about one of the most exciting and controversial battles of the season after a few days?
Not even this season, it's one of the most exciting battles in F1 in two whole years. I love the midfield battles but battles at the front have the highest stakes.
not until max and lando go wheel to wheel again and come out unscathed.
Honestly hope that it keeps happening because the continuous melt downs are starting to swing around to being hilarious. It’s been three days of non-stop stupidity and I want to see how long we all can keep it up
As someone that likes both driver but not like a dedicated fan, it's hilarious from the start, especially fan's reaction from both sides, reading through all the salt is funny af.
Probs on Friday but if Silverstone goes quietly, they'll dig it out for clicks again. I'm surprised they haven't consulted the Pope on the matter.
The Pope? Shit man - he *only* works for Ferrari.
Pretty sure one of them was team Nando. Or minimally sainz so he gets to play both sides.
Friday. The race was a snore until this happened it’s going to be the media talking point till then. No one really cared about the rest of the race. Kind of always the case when there’s a crash for the lead really.
Silverstone is not a sprint this year, so with only 'boring' FP1 and FP2 sessions they'll probably continue until Saturday at the very least.
Bearman to HAAS announcement will probably not be enough to move on. Maybe we'll get something on the Sainz front; that might do the trick.
Its the year 2032 and Sainz is still saying not to rush him. He's taking his time.
Oh my god guys... Bearman to HAAS... it's happening. It's really happening. /s
I listend to a race review podcast and they didn't even mention who won until like 45 mins in haha
There's still time for Red Bull to get Albon to reenact the collision.
Maybe my view on this is too simple, but I just think it was two drivers racing each other. They touched a little. The cars then fell apart like they were made out of Papier-mâché. If the cars and tires would be sturdier, nobody would be even talking about this.
Nah, we can milk it for atleast two more races
I still gotta hear from some others first. I haven't heard Roscoe's take on it yet.
Not until they actually wreck. And then 4 years from now people will say that one or the other ALMOST DIED. I.E Monza or Silverstone 2021
This is just the beginning. If lando is competitive for the rest of the year we wont hear the end of this incident
Not before the British GP it won't.
While the fans are all arguing, Max is streaming iRacing on Twitch
Yeah, when Max leaves F1 in a couple of years to go to WEC and enjoy the life without insane media. He doesn’t care about the number of WDC, and his absence will leave a cloud of “Yeah, but if Max were racing…”
I hope so. The man got his penalty. That's it. Let's move on. lol
Let it go let it go, dont hold it back anymoreeeeeee, let it go
For realz, give or take 1 or 2, this is like the millionth post on this racing incident
Not by Karun though. Different users have posted things from different sources. Across 4M users, that isn't too surprising.
We need Ja’s opinion, where’s Ja??
Best I can do is jansen button
No shit Karun, its almost as if Lando purposefully wanted to compromise Max's entry into that corner and thats why he didn't go onto the curb. Both drivers were hoping that the other would yield, but neither did, therefore, boom crash.
it wasn't even boom(Alonso on Zhou), it was gentle touching even in todays' f1 standard, just with big consequences
Accurate. Stop making sense. You require far more over the top emotion. /s
Over the top emotions is one of a reason we like this sport, sooooo maybe it is not that bad to have them sometimes :)
Sometimes a gentle touch is enough for an explosion. It happens
Story of my life
On a scale from Verstappen to Checo, how quick are you?
Lewis Hamilton, Singapore 2018
Unstoppable force vs immovable object. Everyone loses.
George wins.
Exactly. In any racing situation a driver can move aggressively towards another and if the other driver backs out then it’s great hard racing. If the other driver doesn’t then there’s a crash and the aggressor gets a penalty. Max has made a career of making these sorts of moves. It’s worked out for him pretty much every time. Norris decided to draw a line in the sand and not yield. Therefore the crash is Max’s fault but I t’s not a monstrously dirty move that he made. He got his 10 second penalty we move on. It will be very interesting to see what happens the next time these two come wheel to wheel. Will one of them be less aggressive? Will one of them yield more easily? Will neither yield and we get more crashes? I can’t wait to find out and hopefully they’re battling for another win this weekend.
Max will never be less aggressive. We already know that. Norris has the faster car, playing the long game is his responsibility. when Max has the faster car, even he gets out of the way of such moves ala Sainz vs him at the same turn last season. when you have the better car, you are the one supposed to avoid the contact
Lando never had the fastest car. He is not used to this high level battle. Max probably expected superior wheel to wheel skills, like when he was fighting Leclerc or Hamilton. But Lando isn't there yet and Max knows that from now on.
If you're hunting for reasons why Lando didn't go to the curb, it's because he didn't need to. Max wasn't on that line, and he's not allowed to move in the braking zone of another car. Lando was on the outside line, Lando had every right to think Max wouldn't move across *because Max chose to defend the inside.*
Sure, he didn't have a responsibility to move outside. So in that sense, Lando was right, he did nothing wrong. I hope being right was worth ending the race over. At the end of the day, both drivers could have taken action that would have avoided contact. Max's aggressive defense caused the incident, and he got penalized for it, but the fact of the matter is that Lando could have avoided the contact that ended his race, and he didn't. But he was in the right, so maybe that's worth it to him?
Reminds me of the old sentiment that the morgue is full of drivers that had the right-of-way. Not quite as serious here obviously but yeah still correlates.
Flip it around and you can say the same for Max. Max got off lucky but I suppose if you are leading a championship you can just fail to finish if your nearest rival also fails to finish.
Nobody is absolving Verstappen of blame.
Plenty of people are lol
Max in 2021: I ended his whole race and it only cost 5 seconds
? Verstappen didnt end any of Hamiltons races, apart from Monza where he ended both. Or what do you mean.
I don't know how you can type this when there are so many examples of drivers on the inside moving across in that exact same turn.
You can be right, but you can also be smart. Motorbike riders in traffic know a lot about this.
You are allowed to move in the braking zone, just not while braking yourself.
Sure, Lando had the right to be there, i dont think anyone is seriously arguing that. However, by not yielding to Ver his race was ended, while Max was also given the appropriate penalty and finished comfortably in the points. Its one of those situations where being technically correct probably wasn't the right answer given the lack of impact on his competitor.
> However, by not yielding to Ver his race was ended, while Max was also given the appropriate penalty and finished comfortably in the points. A bit nitpicky, but I think what ultimately ended his race was Lando pushing a car with a puncture to the pits rather than taking it easy like Max. He likely could've limped back to the pits and still made points, but he chose to push which ended up shredding his tire and the back end of the car. He can be mad at Max for the puncture, but the damage to the car which forced him to retire was likely on him.
> Lando was on the outside line, Lando had every right to think Max wouldn't move across because Max chose to defend the inside. What? He was in the middle of the track, and his one move was to the left before braking as literally everyone else does, and this is all before Norris even arrives up next to him.
Only one was required to “yield” which is why only one got a penalty. You lose more points in the long run if your opponent knows you can be relied on to yield.
So.....max shouldn't yield either ?
Max didn't have to yield as Norris wasn't pushing into him. Norris was driving straight ahead.
Yeah, should we congratulate Lando for being technically correct? Does 0 points sound good? As we see every week, the outside driver gets pushed wider than they want and since they don’t want to crash they move over slightly. Lando either judged his distance poorly or chose to crash because he didn’t think he would be able to pass any other way. Edit: lol he blocked me so I’ll leave my response here. You know what would have benefitted Lando in his fight for making Max respect him? Winning when your car is clearly faster.
It's a season, where Lando hopes to be in a position to challenge Max in many more races. If he sets a precident where he yields where he shouldn't have to, that's going to give him a problem all season. Now Max knows that if he's agressive he can fuck his own race as well. So, yes I think Lando did the right thing.
If you think Verstappen will be less aggressive after this, you haven't been watching for a long time. Verstappen knows Norris has a short fuse and will push him much harder to force a mistake.
Max can be as aggressive as he likes but driving into cars that won’t move won’t help his season.
That’s such an insane thing to say given that almost all of the best drivers ever were very aggressive. Pushing Lando a few inches wider into a corner wouldn’t even register on the list of aggressive moves that they employ almost every battle. If max wouldn’t do the exact same thing next time he is in the situation he wouldn’t be a 3x world champion.
Somehow people forget squeezing wasn't invented on the last race lmao
The key with squeezing is that you have to stop doing it when you reach another car.
No? In all those cases the receiving car moves a bit further to the left. Max anticipated that Norris would do that but he wouldn't budge (which was technically correct). Tldr; shit happens
It’s insane to say that crashing into other cars will be bad for his season? This isn’t NASCAR
It actually will. Verstappen got to open the gap between him and number 2 more than he would have by winning lmao
In this case yes, but it's hard to predict who's going to end up with more damage in a crash. If it happens more often it could also end Max' race. That's just the way it goes most often.
The guy on the outside will lose 90% of the time, it's why fighting while on the outside is dumb and everyone squeezes. Being on the inside has much lower risks. Just ask Albon about being on the outside of Hamilton.
The guy on the outside could also be Max another time. Let's no forget Lando only tried the outside once.
I think Max is smart enough to realize that it won't always go his way every time there's contact.
The guy on the outside will lose 90% of the time, it's why fighting while on the outside is dumb and everyone squeezes. Being on the inside has much lower risks. Just ask Albon about being on the outside of Hamilton.
Just ask Rosberg about being on the inside of hamilton
Ok, so he chose to crash. Thats what I said… Max doesn’t give a shit about Lando and absolutely has his number. His attempts to pass with a much faster car last week after just not defending on Saturday will embolden Max if anything.
That’s such a wild take lol. In the above picture there’s the 2 of the most successful drivers of the last 3 decades ‘yielding’ to an aggressive block to avoid contact in the exact same scenario. But one win Lando was smarter to not just slightly yield? I don’t know what Lando should’ve done. But if I were him I’d be taking race craft lessons from Hamilton and Verstappen tbh.
Lando chose not to give the advantage to Max by moving out of his way unnecessarily. Max assumed Lando would get out his way. Something he likely won’t be doing again.
Why wouldn’t he do it again? He got +10 points and that is how you battle for position. Every single race multiple people are pushed much further off and they avoid the crash. Nothing about last race would tell max that he shouldn’t do it again turn one this weekend.
You’re assuming Max will come away better every time. Could have easily been Max DNFing. If Max not relying on Norris to yield secures him two wins later in the season, then it’s more than made up for it. It also reduced the gap between Max and Charles if Ferrari come back into the picture.
I don’t assume that. Do you think this is the first time Max has bumped wheels with someone while aggressively attacking or defending? Oh no! Championship back on Ferrari are making a move apparently…
It’s very simple so I’ll break it down for you. Max has two options now: - Keep crashing into cars he knows won’t move - Or drive without making contact by leaving the space the rules require.
I wonder what 3x world champion max verstappen will do after a tiny wheel bump - change his driving style to play it safe so he doesn’t ever bump wheels with anyone and risk his car or drive like he actually wants to win…
Let’s break this down again. If a 3x world champion knows someone will yield, he’ll use that against them. If he knows they won’t… the strategy stops working.
>Keep crashing into cars he knows won’t move As long as it nets him more points than second place gets, it's a win for him. >Or drive without making contact by leaving the space the rules require. What rule?
The same rule that got him a 10 second penalty.
Imagine both of whem will keep being stubborn and take each other out every race and Oscar wins the WDC.
What is George Lucas's verdict on the incident?
what does Ja Rule think about the incident? Has anyone heard from Ja
That guy edits over time so not that valuable an opinion.
He's re releasing the race so Lando moves under breaking first
George Lucas's view is that Han shot first.
Headline tomorrow: "Karun Chandhok loses Passport for Treason".
He's still Indian, right? More like fired from Sky F1.
Sent to Gulag.
Only lizard believers get fired at Sky
You're right. Had to wiki it real quick.
His colleagues wont be happy with this tweet
Karun gonna be put on a PIP by Sky
Max and Lando have the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever
Bump draft each other into sargent?
Been analyzed more than the Zapruder film.
Haha, not wrong. Both are unsolved murders according to some! Absolutely bonkers we are still talking about this.
Literally every comment is saying the story is old but the post has a lot of upvotes. People are still interested and care about the precedent this sets.
I'm gona say it, neither max or lando did anything wrong they raced hard but fair and shit happens
Could someone please put a shot where Max had to put his whole car on the kerb avoiding a collision with Sainz coming at him after the start at Silverstone ‘22? Max has learned that lesson Karun is talking about long time ago.
Jesus christ... two race cars bumped each other on track. We don't need a doctoral dissertation on this.
That's not a doctoral dissertation. That's an analysis from a guy whose job is to make such analyses.
British Media: "Correct, we do not need a doctoral dissertation on this. We want *five*.
Let's keep milking the cow
Rule states you have to leave a cars width inside the white line. In the other examples, they didnt, but the other driver let themselves get pushed wide to avoid making contact. You could argue that would be smart, but the driver is also entitled to chose not to move, as they are supposed to be given enough space. This was pretty much a racing incident with two people refusing to give an inch. The earlier battles had far more to discuss than this. Its unbelievably unlucky for both that it ended with a puncture, taps like this happen relatively often without consequence. But if you have to assign blame, which you do when it ends in disaster, then it goes to the person who didnt leave a cars width inside the white line. Why cant they just leave it at that.
Probably because a lot of people's first reaction was that Max needed his racing license revoked for trying to assassinate Lando. I think people were triggered, actively tried to see this in the same light as the 2021 battles more generally, and that is also triggering others.
All this noise over a simple racing event is ridiculous.
Praying Sunday is an exciting but drama free race so we can leave this convo behind.
I’m hoping for a 10+ second win, plus a no British podium. Maybe something like Verstappen, Sainz, LeClerc and Piastri combo in some fashion so the media can really get into thier feelings
No one wants to see British drivers on the podium this weekend. Max is going to get booed hard they'd have to edit clapping and cheering into his winning ceremony. I hope Alonso gets P2 and Sainz P3, so the British cucks have absolutely no idea who to cheer for.
Hulk, Magnussen and Ocon podium. Make it happen. XD
They’ll claim Piastri as a commonwealth win to soothe their troubled souls
Inb4 Max dishes out his own 51G.
Enough. I don't want to hear it anymore. I thought this was a racing incident at first but now after hearing the same goddamn thing for the umpteenth time I'm gonna pin this on Lando. Max was ahead, he picked a line and Lando chose not to evade him. Skill issue, clearly. 5 seconds for Ocon, Magnussen to the stewards and 10.000 peso penalty for Stroll for speeding in the pit lane.
If it happened lap one, it would have been a racing incident. Yes, Max was at fault. The bigger issue was the late defense Max was doing on prior laps.
Sainz did the same but probably worse to max last but max just moved to the left abit and avoided 🤷 not saying it should have happend at all but the same time lando could have moved abit then pushed for max to get the penalty and still get a good run down the next drs and mabey do or die down there
Can we just enforce the "all the time you have to leave a space" rule?
No, that would actually be terrible. Do you want every battle to be decided by the stewards trying to determine if there was 2 inches too little space left on the outside? Should both drivers have to give so much room to be safe from the stewards that you cannot compromise anyone else’s line to defend/overtake? One unlucky bump finishes one of the best battles of the last two seasons and you want to eliminate any chance of the crash happing so much that you are willing to eliminate the battle to do it.
Being that all six cars here are fully within track limits and touching pavement with all four wheels, I don't think that premise is violated, at least not in spirit.
My take on this is simple. Both are at fault. Max more. But they had it coming. Lando sending it from another zipcode a couple of times with the assumption that Max will just move aside. Max slightly moving whilst Lando was alongside his rear, making Lando react a bit.. the first defense wasn't moving under braking. He simply was taking the Apex because Lando was so far back imo. Then the incident. Lando did nothing to avoid the crash whilst having time to react. Max didn't exactly move in a lightning fast and big manner. Max simply should have not moved outside. It was a dumb build up with a dumb outcome. Hard and slightly over the fair play limit from both. Stop acting as if Max shunted Lando off the track. You all are acting like this is some sort of Silverstone 2021 situation. I am baffled that that slight touch did so much damage to both cars. That was unfortunate. Without the tyres popping nobody would yell about it anymore.
Different brake points at the pictures would probably be better to not crop out so much lmao
Why does it feel like this incident sparked more arguments than it should've been.
I think Jenson Button was also of the opinion that Lando could have put two wheels on the outside kerb and perfectly would have gotten by eventually.
Idk if this is a controversial but Landon doesn't have to give up the best racing line he legitimately douped Max away from with his move as the rules clearly state he is entitled to a cars width from the line. Landon is entitled to stay there more than Max is entitled to move over which is against the rules. If they touch, Max should be the one to re-consider next time. Not Landon.
This. Everyone is talking about you are racing Max so you should act different. 19 drivers shouldn’t adapt to 1 driver.
I think Lando held his line on purpose. He was fed up of Max moving in the braking zone and going off track to maintain position. So he made the conscious decision not to deviate. He probably didn't expect the contact but similar to Silverstone 2021 it was a driver putting his foot down and saying "Nope, I'm not yielding to you anymore".
No doubt that, *in theory* (practice is very different, we just don't know) Lando could have moved a little more to the curbs However 1) he was already on the limit for track limits violations and 2) as true as it may be that there were at least alternate possibilities, this fact Karun has pointed out should not and cannot be used in order to shift blame for the incident itself. The entire subreddit has basically gone full on into this was lando's fault. *At best* they'll give a cursory "yeah the contact was on Max" except there's always a "but" after that and far, far more words written about how this is actually all on Lando.
leaving space means 1 car width INSIDE the tracklimits, no?
Stop. Get help.
The things is this, check your damn mirrors before moving over. Turning in blindly was what caused the contact. The guy on outside is not obligated to straddle the kerbs. He is within his rights to hold his line. Max misjudged the gap between the two cars when putting on the squeeze. It was a small mistake. Move on.
Based on the two other incidents he clearly didn't misjudge it.
He dnf for not doing what Hamilton and Max did. CHAMPIONS DIFFERENCE.
He could have taken a point even further away from the corner as comparison.....
was it max's predominantly max's fault? yes. was it a very egregious or dangerous move? no. is squeezing your rival into the entry of a corner a normal racing move? yes. did the contact and resulting consequence of the incident make it look like a bigger incident than it actually was? again, yes
Funny how people are so knowledgeable about rules in F1 until their favorite driver breaks and it turns into a mental gymnastics competition Certain drivers didn't move under breaking, and one did and hit someone. You're within your rights to push someone off the track, and if that person doesn't move and you hit em, it's 100 percent your fault. It's like a tackle in football. All fun and useful until you break someone's legs
Everybody is watching the wrong stuff. Max got a penalty for causing a collision. That was when he literally drove into Lando. Not the part (a second) before where he was merely defending like a thousand other drivers have done before.
Would you rather be "correct" or in the race? Norris ended up getting fewer points than Perez this weekend because of his inability to soak pressure and his awful race craft. His car was more than fast enough that he'd have found a way through within 7 laps. He's too impatient and has no idea how to win.
Where is Lando pushing Max on to the grass from spain. (I don't really care but find funny so many are still crying about this)
This isn't about the squeeze, it's that Max decides to defend inside and then moved to the outside into Lando.
Do y’all even want people to race anymore? Jfc
That is literally how you race. You defend the inside, get the other driver to commit to going on your outside, then try to squeeze as far as they’ll go to open up the corner and not compromise your exit. Almost always the outside driver obliges if it’s not putting them in too bad of a position, as you’ve surely seen from every other clip in this same corner.
I agree. Lando would have easily moved a couple of inches to the left and probably gotten a switch around and overtake at turn 4. You know what they say, it's not about being right all the time. Sometimes you have to be smart and improvise. If he did what Max did against Sainz, he would have won the race.
pretty much every move norris did was desperate as shit. either they crashed from one of the divebombs or this, was kinda bound to happen.
Yes. Max moves left, that's the main problem.
Yeah max is going to purposefully run wide as is a perfectly standard defense for a turn like this. Objective is to destroy Landos exit onto the straight (which has DRS…) Lando knows this, but as usual gets desperate and shits the bed when the pressures on, he should have tried a switch back. Prioritised his exit and banked on the DRS. Or he should have waited for a safety car, since that’s his only tool.
Moving back to the racing line is allowed under the rules.
citation needed
Not sure though maybe this has been updated since 2022? https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/60815007 Unfortunately, the document sent out by the the FIA refers to the wrong number of article in the sporting regulations - it indicates the number this clause had last year - 27.4 - not the number it has this year, which is 33.4. The document was sent out to teams only at the Bahrain Grand Prix, and it does not refer directly to the stipulations in the sporting code to do with dangerous driving. This says: "More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. "Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner. "However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited. Any driver who appears guilty of any of the above offences will be reported to the stewards."
The other reply has posted it.
All the driving who were pushed wide and avoided contact did not have to. they did it because they wanted to live and fight another day and that’s not an excuse for the drivers on the inside who decided to run their opponents out of road. No one should yield just because it’s Verstappen you’re racing. Norris was right not to yield.
So many people can have this on the tombstone: "I was in the right". Ultimately, Lando should have taken advantage of bringing Max out of position and do what Nax did to Sainz, switch back, use the DRS and win the race. I'm not convinced he will learn from this, just try next time even more desperately
The drivers didn’t have to, but they were bright enough to recognize surviving to the next corner is important.
>they did it because they wanted to live and fight another day Yeah. That's a pretty good reason. Maybe Lando will learn