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Seshien

Actually, please give numbers for longer test than only first 10 seconds. Even just without reloading it would be more honest, because currently at the end of test, HWM is fully reloaded and Quad bardiche is fully empty. It is also dishonest because quad bardiche is literally alpha damage vehicle. I am interested how it would look more longterm, ignoring alpha strike. Long term firepower of quad bardiche is one rpg every 6.5s, when it is around 8 rounds ( it takes (8+5)s for HWM to fire and reload full clip) for the same period of time for HWM. It means that long term, HWM is around 2.6x better at disabling subsystems than Quad bardiche. Quad also has problems with accuracy, it being RPG vehicle. You cant really aim at subsystems with it, because then you lose a lot of range and can easily miss, especially with moving enemy target.


Austria1914

I love how SaltyFoxholeVet does his analysis the way it works for them and then they call it data (doubts)


xXFirebladeXx321

He just plays every war in oarbreaker so its typical for him to now think that everything is collie biased. When he literally plays in the most biased warden hex every war. Probably brainrot for being in that noob region for 3000+ hours. Any sort of data will prove that HWM is trash if compared to Bardiche/Quadiche. When it literally isn't even a main tank like those, its a support tank. Its not meant to be compared to literal line tanks. Bard/Quad==SVH/Cheiftain when we compare the chassis/armour. HWM/Outlaw== MPT/Spatha same thing, when compared with chassis. Now with HTD, its like smelter with insane armour but 2850 less HP than smelter. Quadiche is like HV40, but with good armour, not insane levels but now it has same HP, and also a HMG. While Quadiche have almost twice HV40 levels of alpha damage, but lower DPS in single fire against structures. Wardens will complain "Oh the 40 rmat HV40 also lacks a HMG, so it isn't a Quadiche counterpart!!!", but so does the ballista when compared to it's counterpart with a HMG on top, aka cheiftain. By that logic, I can just say "Ballista isn't a cheiftain counterpart, because it lacks a HMG, it should be a 250mm FM counterpart, which probably is a better comparison due to its lack of speed and HMG!!!!". \^ Thats just stupid logic in the above 2 paragraphs, and SaltyFoxholeguy can't grasp it properly.


SaltyFoxholeVet

Dude, we’ve had this discussion about the HVFC/HVFAT and counterparts in our dms, and I know that you **know** what arguments I made. I didn’t make the ones you’re saying I made here, you’re deliberately lying about what I’ve said and putting words in my mouth. And personally attacking me because Im in a clan that mainly plays in the west side of the map, as if that somehow negates my experience playing this game, really? Disappointed in you man, thought you weren’t just a typical diehard loyalist since we had good discussions about balance in our dms.


_-Deliverance-_

If your only experience in the game is defending conclave, you do not have a very good idea on what is balanced


SaltyFoxholeVet

Yeah, I’ve spent 3k hours and 2 years sitting in a ghouse at conclave. I don’t know shit.


SaltyFoxholeVet

The reload time of the Ranseur is 5.5 seconds. There is no time lag between firing and reloading, only when firing the burst. The Ranseur can fire 4 shells in the first 4 seconds, then 1 shell every 5.5 seconds. The Highwayman can *theoretically* fire a full mag in 8 seconds, and reload in 5. However, if you actually do that the accuracy becomes so bad that you end up missing your many of your shots. That means you have two options. You can full auto and fire off a full magazine in 8 seconds, but be wildly innaccurate and miss a bunch of your shots, or you can fire in bursts to maintain accuracy which would take much longer than 8 seconds to go through a whole mag. Either way, the subsystem disable capability of the Highwayman suffers, and it’s not “8 seconds for 16 chances to disable a subsystem”. Yes, long term, the Highwayman has a higher subsystem disable capability. But we’re talking in the the first 15-30 seconds or so of combat, which is enough time for the Highwayman to be disabled.


xXFirebladeXx321

stop max ranging with ATR, go like within 5-10metres while flanking and do circles around the enemy tanks.


HKO2006

Do the math again but 3min (your video is 4min long so minus 1 min border hopping) to see the disable chance in prolonged fight


xXFirebladeXx321

Gman on his way to post another Quadiche vs Highwayman rant, when they aren't even meant to be compared to each other. Do you seriously think that Quadiche==Highwayman??? If you haven't used Highwayman, just use it, you basically are a speedy boy and you are able to do circles around Bardiches/Quadiches, easily able to dump 2-3 mags without the need for accuracy. Unless you used them in line fighting. Now that would be false if you use it in line battles, which the outlaw chassis sucks at doing compared to silverhand/bardiche chassis tanks. Also Quadiche having 35m range is true, but the RPGs aren't hitscan unlike the ATR, so if the enemy tank is reversing out of a Quadiche's range, it will have 5-10m less range, because it will have some travel time. With ATR, thats just instant hitscan, and you get 16 shots, with the same pen as a RPG. Quadiche has basically 4 times less shots, but more damage potential if it pens compared to ATR outlaw. Also I just forgot to mention how GOOD the HWM ATR is for 1 shotting infantry bruh, good accuracy aswell. Nobody talking about that thing?


SaltyFoxholeVet

You do understand this is a post about the subsystem disable capabilities of the tanks, not the damage? You’re rebuking points I didn’t make. You can’t reliably target subsystems by “dumping mags without need for accuracy.” The Ranseur doesn’t have “4 times less shots” it fires a shell every 5.5 seconds, while the HWM fires 16 shots every 13 seconds with a 2/3 less chance to disable subsystems. The HWM doesn’t one shot infantry.


xXFirebladeXx321

\>The HWM doesn't one shot infantry ???????????? Are you proving that you have never used the ATR outlaw in live server????? Looks like someone didn't use the HWM and is just ranting by using theoretical data/testing from devbranch and videos from current live.


SaltyFoxholeVet

I literally posted a video of me using it a couple days ago. Unlike the other ATR weapons that 1 shot infantry 100% of the time, the HWM has a low chance to 1 shot infantry because of its 50% less damage. I’m not saying it isn’t a good anti-infantry weapon, it is, but 1 shotting infantry happens rarely, more of a nice surprise when it happens, than a feature you can depend upon. This is corroborated by the numbers. Health of infantry is 100, the damage of 20mm is 150-225, so ATR weapons always 1 shot infantry. However, the HWM has 50% reduced damage, so it’s damage is 75-112.5. I don’t recall the exact chance of one shotting infantry, but I remember someone doing the numbers on FOD and it was a 1 in 31 chance I think? The point is that one shotting infantry isn’t a reliable feature with the HWM, unlike other ATR weapons.


eTheBlack

But its you who is comparing apples to oranges


Forreskinman69

Everyone laugh at the nerd whining about a funny rocket tank in a top down ww2 shooter game


_-Deliverance-_

You are once again trying to maintain a false equivalence that the HWM should he compared in any way to the Quad. More apt comparisons would be the SvH to the Quad, alpha damage tanks with good armor. The HWM should be buffed, probably by making both the main gun and secondary more accurate. But claiming that just because the HWM isn't as good as the Ransuer means it is somehow unusable is very interesting. Also nice test, did you include that as time goes on after the Quads ALPHA STRIKE, the only thing going for it, the HWM pulls WAY ahead in crit potential as its superior ROF and reload time gives it an advantage


Mosinphile

man so salty, what are wardens gonna do at 1.0 when the rest of the gaps are filled.


SaltyFoxholeVet

Colonials really complained about Wardens dismissing their concerns about balance in the past with “skill issue/cope and seethe” then go and make posts like these.


Gostang

>man so salty *Laughs in last 3 wars full of collie salt*


Mosinphile

hmm? dont like a balanced game? Mad that HV40 is balanced?


Gostang

man so salty


Mosinphile

nah man if anything im a happy jack :D. 1.0 is 3 - 4 months out and i couldnt be more exited :D


tristanino

Everyone on this sub is salty - kinda flip flops every few wars Quadiche —> HV40 —> ISG —> Outlaw —> …etc


Gostang

This is the way. It's just funny that this kiddo is calling other ppl salty when clearly he is salty and thinking that Collies are the only side that have been fighting with worse equipment in the past.


tristanino

You both are salty and not sure he said the wardens haven’t had to deal with worse equipment but go off king


xXFirebladeXx321

Didn't you blue monkeys tell us that HV40 is balanced with its busted 115% PVE damage because collies have a grenade that is thrown further by 2 more meters? So much for "worse" warden equipment, when 95% of your other tools are just straight up equal or better. Just because you get 1 tool that sucks, doesn't mean it requires massive buffs so it can 1v1 a tank from front like bardiche which is quite LITERALLY meant to line fight. Learn to flank and stop coping, its such a fun tank to flank with, you fire 16 shots on an enemy turret and it just disables easily.


Gostang

>Didn't you blue monkeys tell us that HV40 is balanced with its busted 115% PVE damage because collies have a grenade that is thrown further by 2 more meters? I never said that. You clearly weren't playing when ballistas came out and Wardens didn't have any real counterpart but still managed to win wars. You green monkeys shit the whole plebbit crying 24/7 like a little bitches when you lost 0.5 wars (yes, you didn't even lose a war before you started acting like a little girls) ''in a row''. Funniest thing was the cries and reddit spam about HV40 when it wasn't even teched when that whole comeback started, but came in play after your ''unbreakable'' morale and ''I didn't hear no bell'' was already gone.


tristanino

Didn’t the ballista come out 2 years ago? If that’s the patch you’re looking at for *collie Imbalance things are going pretty well *for wardens *Also pretty sure collies won wars when they believed things were imbalanced, same as wardens?


xXFirebladeXx321

Wardens already had the funny 250mm FM added which was a joke before, then devs made it better by increasing it's HP and making it invisible in war 77 update. Since then, it is almost on par with ballista in effectiveness, just cheaper, and can be decrewed/stolen easily. While you get the obvious advantage with the speedy boy cheiftain in 250mm tank department. Also HV40 has been ingame since 77 and complaints existed pre-77 in the devbranch for HV40, its good wardens are monkey brained so they can't understand how to use their own weaponry without crying hard to the devs for 10+ wars. I guess another 10 wars of warden skill issue and not learning how to properly use the ATR outlaw, and continue crying about it by comparing to bardiche/quadiche like typical monkeys.


Gostang

>Since then, it is almost on par with ballista in effectiveness Lmfao, you gotta be one of the biggest collie fangirls in this whole subreddit. But I get it, in your little head it's the colonials who have been fucked in the ass time after time and when wardens say they had it rough it's just a skill issue right? When colonials lose it's because devs gave the win for wardens but when you win it's all about superior skills right? You better touch some grass, get some friends outside of the videogame and maybe a new hobby? ​ > its good wardens are monkey brained so they can't understand how to use their own weaponry without crying hard to the devs for 10+ wars. Holy shit the irony is unreal hahaha! Isn't it funny that the same goes for colonials? You are just now barely trying to understand how powerful your movable 120's are when you stop crying and actually use 'em. It's gonna take a lot longer until you monkeys find out that if you use W on your keyboard and not only on your bunker designs you're gonna be much more efficient and that you actually have good stuff in your arsenal but you rather cry in reddit than use them properly. Ballista isn't as good as Chieftain but colonials refuse to use it with brains anyway so it doesn't matter...or when you do you make a line against 4 AT garrisons and 3 EAT's and then curse how bad ballista is lmao!


Austria1914

What is the reload time of HWM ?


SaltyFoxholeVet

Read the first paragraph of the post, the reload time is in the parenthesis.


Austria1914

Oh sorry, i just jumped into disable chance datas, thanks


Austria1914

So according to those reload times you have given, i understand that HWM is ready to fire second magazine but Quadiche has no rpg to fire right ?


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SaltyFoxholeVet

What the fuck do ATRs and Cutlers have to do with the Highwayman and Ranseur?


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SaltyFoxholeVet

Do you understand the ridiculousness of saying “your tank is ok because you have X Infantry weapons”? Could you imagine if Wardens told Colonials to stop complaining about the Warden tanks, because they have the Bane and Ignifist? And holy shit, “just use your stuff better” isn’t a argument. You could say that about literally every balance issue. Again with the straw manning. This post isn’t about the Ranseur’s PVE ability or calling for it to be nerfed. Did you even read it? I am simply demonstrating the fact that a PVE tank has a HIGHER subsystem disable chance than a tank explicitly *designed* to disable subsystems. Nothing wrong with the Ranseur here, but it reflects badly on the Highwayman. I guess these are the kinds of braindead takes to expect from a Larry super fan and confirmed cheater: https://www.reddit.com/r/foxholegame/comments/up5ghx/can_we_just_not_alt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


3l33tvariance

....you guys did. In fact, YOU specifically did as a way to justify the then current state of the hv40. Summarized as; colonials have grenades therefore hv40 is balanced. https://www.reddit.com/r/foxholegame/comments/uwfzrt/comment/i9uz43c/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3


SaltyFoxholeVet

I recommend everyone reading this to click on that link and go read the thread to get the context, and see what I *actually* said. Not this guy’s 7 word “summary” of my 6 paragraph comment. If you do, then you’d know that the guy I was responding to was arguing in bad faith that the HVFC was a better anti-concrete tool than the Ballista, by only focusing on the HVFC’s capabilities and the downsides of the Ballista, but completely ignoring the downsides of the HVFC, namely that it’s a field weapon so it’s crew is completely exposed, which is what my comment was calling out. Whether you agree or disagree doesn’t matter. The point is I wasn’t saying “colonials have grenades therefore hv40 is balanced.” AND EVEN IF I DID. That’s not what SOLO was saying which is what your original comment is about: Comparing my words to SOLO’s. SOLO said that “Your X vehicle is fine because you have X infantry tools.” You’re saying that I said “Our X vehicle is fine because you have X tools” which isn’t the same thing, and again, also isn’t what I said.


3l33tvariance

Yes; they should read the thread which is why I posted it. My comment here is not to agree or disagree that. In fact, I maintain that having some sort of counter against X does not mean X is not broken. It is to point out that you have inconsistently applied your own logic. I think part of you even acknowledged that by saying "EVEN IF I DID" because thats what effectively what you were doing in that thread. Stating Colonials have grenades as a response to hvfc balance is roughly analogous to "use your stuff better" Returning to main topic; your math once again is wrong(Please also read the datamine, Ive caught you consistently making incorrect statements on weapon balance that can easily be checked, e.g. LMG faster than smg, 40mm same splash as 68mm); take a look at this please: [https://www.reddit.com/r/foxholegame/comments/vhhklo/comment/id7wgd4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/foxholegame/comments/vhhklo/comment/id7wgd4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)


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ToxicRainbowDinosaur

Holy shit, the complete lack of self awareness is mind blowing lmfao. THIS comment coming from Soloself 😂


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MrPosbi

Ok boomer


xXFirebladeXx321

Dude, ATR HWM is literally a support type tank/vehicle, just like IST/ATAC. You don't use them everywhere, and when you lose them to tanks BUILT for freaking line fighting (aka Bardiche/Quadiche), thats just an issue of not flanking, or not using a silverhand/HTD. Using a HWM against Bardiches/Quadiches from front is same as using an ATAC vs a 30mm Scout tank/40mm Light tank from the front. You didn't flank, so you lose most of the times, unless you score a lucky turret disable(FROM FRONT) which is rare. You are coping as if that tank is meant to be used in mass even in line battles while keeping silverhands/HTDs in storage.


SaltyFoxholeVet

The difference is that the ATAC actually has the same 35m range as armored cars and scout tanks, and does like 15-22% damage per shot to the ~1000 health ACs/STs so it’s a legitimate threat against them. In comparison, the Highwayman has *30m* range compared to the LTs and Falchion/Spatha that have 40m, and “short range” brawler tanks the Bardiche/Ranseur with 35m. It also has 50% reduced damage, so each shot only does 2.5-3.8% damage to the 3000 health Falchion/Spatha, and 1.9-2.8% damage to the 4000 health Bardiche/Ranseur. But is has double the fire rate right? Yeah, that’s the point. Double the gun, double the number of bullets flying, but halve the damage, and you end up with the same DPS as a single, standard ATR. In fact, the Typhon actually has a higher DPS, and 40m range, so a Colonial HT could serve in the same role as the Highwayman, but we’re. I don’t really care about damage, I think the range should be increased to be 40m, or at the very least 35m, so it can “support” friendly tanks without committing suicide.


ToxicRainbowDinosaur

Are you even capable of writing a reply that isn't pure whataboutism?


MissionDifficulty306

this is not about cutlers, its about why we have a tank that obviusly doesn't work as intended.


outkast3r09

How was this calculated. As there is many circumstances in these scenarios being left out. ​ First it requires it to pen first in order to be able to even roll a disable. There is a much higher percentage that you atleast hit pen once on HWM vs the Ranseur due to sheer bullets. ​ If you'd like to go into statistics, you'll see using Binomial Distributions will show that at least hitting one shot with the HWM is 0.98473 , where as the Ranseur is 0.72932. P(X>=1) = 98.473% P(X>=1) = 72.932% ​ Now this would mean that HWM has a 98% chance to hit atleast one pen in a clip whereas the ranseur is 72%. Now start determining how much the percentage would go down if you did atleast 4 rounds hitting. ​ P(X>=4) = 0.52035 P(X>=4) = 0.01141 ​ ​ Then add the .0825 and .25 for the subsystem disables and yes, the ranseur disables at a 10% higher rate. ... So yes if the ranseur actually pens , it has a higher chance but it has a very small chance to pen multiple times in a row (excluding modifiers and such), whereas the HWM has the ability to fire and pen with low damage throughout it's whole clip just by sheer number of bullets . Think of it like this. Would it be easier to flip a coin and at least hit heads 4 times with 16 tosses or 5 tosses? ​ The problem has nothing to do with ATR disable multiplier. If you increase that, ATRs will be broken, which would highly favor wardens. The problem I feel is more the fact how people are using the HWM (exposing their sides giving higher percentages), and fighting a brawler tanks with it. The tank is not a brawler. It's a support tank at best meant to be flank (and no i don't mean driver around the tank exposing your side; I mean head on into the side of the tank line.) ​ I do believe that with the 35m range , maybe there needs to be a buff/nerf in such way: \-Lower Bloom of ATR, so it's shot are more pinpoint therefore you can attack specific parts. (Practically no Bloom when firing, Think tank shell all the time) \-Lower Rate of fire . Having a peashooter with that RoF would be quite broken. (10-15% lower ROF)


SaltyFoxholeVet

I wasn’t suggesting that 20mm be changed as a whole, I suggested that the stability of the main gun be improved so more of the 16 shots would hit a subsystem. You don’t understand, the only way the HWM can win 1v1 engagements is by speed boosting in circles around the enemy tank outpacing the turret rotation. The Kranesca can also beat every Warden tank except for the Outlaw/Highwayman in the same way. If you charge them then just sit there, they’ll start hitting you and you’ll lose since the HWM has poor armor and lower health than other medium tanks, and because they can just back up and outrange you, or out DPS you. You’re suggesting that it act as a “support vehicle” by charging into a tank *line* is literally suicide. It takes a 4/3 40mm/68mm shots to be disabled, and enemy AT infantry are present. Trading a 170 rmat tank for a couple subsystems temporarily disabled isn’t worth it. Even other Colonials arguing the Highwayman is fine are saying it, the Highwayman’s not supposed to be used on the frontline. The Highwayman’s doesn’t have 35m range it actually has 30m range… Yes, that’s what I’m suggesting, just reduced bloom so the Highwayman can fire at its maximum fire rate without the shots going all over the place.


HKO2006

Dont know why you HWM is full reload and Ranseur is reload 1 tube. If you really want to test, you should do math for both no reload alpha only and also 3 min firing. This way you can see the disable chance on average in a prolonged fight too. Your friend is new so aim is not the best I suppose. This also brings up a point that Ranseur's RPG has travel time unlike HWM ATR being hit scan. I can safely say if your friend was using Ranseur he would be missing even more. So RPG is a skill shot as you have to correctly predict enemy movement to land a hit. The higher risk of missing justifies the more impactful hit if it does connect.


[deleted]

Good analysis


Pokeputin

Why are you comparing such weird timeframes? You should compare between time it takes for quadiche to burst + reload all four rpgs, and the time it takes for the HWM to burst + reload.