You also posted the exact reason, why 99% of colonials don't use this tool.
Imagine that every time a blue dot appears, you'd get pinged by discord.
Like ANY stray partisan will give you a ping, it'll drive you insane.
I don’t use it, takes me a total of 5 seconds to scan the map for partisans, alt tabbing to discord is way more steps than hitting M. Also I never want to be pinged about blue dots.
I would consider it an "external tool to gain an unfair advantage" and therefore shouldn't be allowed. The counterargument is that it's not actually all that much of an advantage.
So one side thinks it's a rule-breaking external tool that goes against the spirit of the game, and the other side apparently doesn't care about it (despite screenshots showing that people do actually check the bot's posts and react to them), so I see plenty of reasons to support its removal and no objections to its removal.
the "external tool to gain an unfair advantage" argument is so annoying, the rule is reffering to game modifications like aim-bot, auto-build, etc.
by YOUR definiton, discord itself would be bannable (external program used to help ppl coordinate and get an advantage) but obviously thats not true
i assume you refer to things like "Click Lock", well since its a built-in tool in basically every computer that runs the game, i think thats OK. and its not like it even provides any real advantage (the player still has to sit at the computer, and manually select blueprints, get building resources, etc.)
the tool was created to reduce strain on person's wrist, and its used for exactly that purpose.
Oh yeah I checked the bot. It’s either a random warden locked truck or a clueless dude being lost.
Why don’t you go join collie and sigil and give it a check before you say this is “unfair advantage”.
Yes, the reason it’s broken is that WARDENS CANNOT PARTISAN AT ALL. Who cares if you get pinged on Discord, Colonials practically have their back lines entirely locked down and can hunt any stray partisan they want.
Sitaria happened because almost every vet online was in conclave and didnt want to leave and get que'd. QRF calls were like 2 minutes before they reached the city and Ill be honest I didnt qrf for the same reason lmao I knew we were winning either that night or the next day, so no point in missing out on the fight I just spent my entire day/night on.
Well, you're the guy implying that collies got untouchable backlines due to skynet, yet there was an succesful OP with a couple Chieftains + a CV despite passing through the most watched logi routes on the collie side.
Imagine collies subscribing for their part of the map or for their storm cannons to guard, how much that cuts down the noise to only the ones assigned to them.
I don't get it? (like I do not understand what i'm looking at)
Is it some sort of automated messaging system that looks at the radar in game and pings you when enemies are spotted near stormcannons?
If so yes it's kinda bad but nothing is stopping both sides from using this bot
\*edit spelling\*
Kinda. I don't really fully understand how it works, all I know is that it pings way too often for it to be highly accurate. a storm cannon raid could be just a frontline that's gotten close to a colonial SC. Or it could be a sinlge partisan who happened to be spotted once in the hex. **False positives are waaaay more common than actual raids** so for the most part people just ignore it, in fact i forgot it was still going until i saw this.
Edit: It litterally thinks the windows loading circle is a warden and will ping everyone and everything for that.
Its my understanding that it requires that people be streaming their game with their map open to one single region. The reason why you need a person for each region is that the map needs to be zoomed in so the program can properly read the streaming data. If your zoomed out too far or too close in then it can't accurately determine what its looking at. The program then reads the streaming data for blue dots and reports on them. Also looks like the program is smart enough to look at some sort of map reference data so it can figure out where on the map the blue dot is not just the specific region. Based on the screenshots it can also interpret where storm cannons are as well. I wonder if its smart enough to know vehicle vs individual partisan vs groups, etc, etc.
From a technical standpoint its impressive but its not very practical to use.
* It requires a person for each region that needs to be monitored to be streaming.
* It dumps a lot of data out quickly that is no more helpful then just looking at the map in the game yourself.
* It does generate false positives in some situations.
* Unless they improved it, it only sees pixel changes but can't actually interpret what its seeing but rather give a best guess.
In my opinion its value is not in detecting a problem. Its value is in the aftermath. Somehow a partisan got into a secured location? You can then go back and look at the data and see exactly how the partisan got to where he is and fix the spot he exploited. That is, if you had sufficient map coverage with watch towers and had someone streaming that region at the time. That is where its true value is at.
>I don't really fully understand how it works, all I know is that it pings way too often for it to be highly accurate.
Without the source code I can say with 100% but if I had to guess based off the comments it is a MI that was trained to scan the map for Warden infantry and vehicles and then make a discord post.
Based on the text shared it also makes a guess as to the intent of the Warden based off what is nearby.
>Or it could be a sinlge partisan who happened to be spotted once in the hex. False positives are waaaay more common than actual raids so for the most part people just ignore it
That seems like an easy fix to be honest.
>It litterally thinks the windows loading circle is a warden and will ping everyone and everything for that.
That also should be an easy fix.
I only have a basic understanding of coding, but I agree with your assessment. It is probably a very simple program that simply scans the screen to find a group of blue pixels, and records their location on the map. If it registers blue pixels near a Storm cannon site, it posts an alert in discord. There is probably much more too it than that, but that's the basic premise. So if it sees one scout near a SC, Ping! That player moves and the bot registers a new blue dot 5 seconds later, Ping! That warden hops in a truck on the side of the road and turns it blue, ping! That truck sits there for 3 hours in tower range near the SC, ping! ping! ping! ping! ping! You can see why most Collies just mute it and never use it.
Sure a lot of the reliability issues can be fixed, but the point we are trying to make is that they haven't been, and therefor it is not an "external tool to gain an unfair ***advantage***" because it provides no actual advantage as of now. This is obvious as we clearly still lost MANY SC to raids this war, and heck ARG even managed to turn Sitaria Blue despite this "absolutely game breaking" map bot. We are much better off having people just online 24/7 watching SCs.
Also, my only question is, Why didn't any Wardens come up with something similar? We have this same debate every time someone smart comes along and tries to use that smarts. When Collies came up with the Arty calculator this was the exact same argument. Granted The Arty calculator was fairly basic math that anyone who has finished a high school geometry class can do on their own with enough time, but the parallels are the same. If this is so game breaking, then a Warden should create a similar code, and then make it better.
>Sure a lot of the reliability issues can be fixed, but the point we are trying to make is that they haven't been, and therefor it is not an "external tool to gain an unfair advantage"
My issue with this statement is essentially "it doesn't matter if I am cheating because I am doing a bad job at it", (I am aware that is not what you said, but if you view it as cheating then that is the message that gets received.
I would argue it is better to snip the problem in the bud then wait for it to get worse, wouldn't it have been better to prevent multiboxing before it became a widespread problem then wait till after?
>Also, my only question is, Why didn't any Wardens come up with something similar?
I really want to make a smart ass loyalist joke, but I know I shouldn't. The honest answer is it's a simple idea in hindsight as most ideas are, but it is clever in a vacuum (ie without hearing about it first).
It also requires the right combination of personality, skills, and concept to work. I had a similar idea a few months before I first heard about this, but I didn't have the right combination to make it a reality.
>If this is so game breaking, then a Warden should create a similar code, and then make it better.
I am sure it will be done sooner or later (especially if this isn't found to be rules breaking), personally I feel like we are all poorer for it's (and the copycats it will spawn) existence.
I also shudder to imagine this idea + alts.
>I would argue it is better to snip the problem in the bud then wait for it to get worse, wouldn't it have been better to prevent multiboxing before it became a widespread problem then wait till after?
This, is a very fair argument. I will even admit that this is very much a grey zone (which is the other reason I don't use it), and can even see how bad this can get if someone really takes a crack at it, using Learning AIs and such to bring the power of this to a whole new level. While I personally don't see it as a problem at the moment, I also definitely understand people who believe it is.
I suppose I should clarify my position a little more. I don't see this particular bot in particular as "game breaking" or cheating, but I do fear the doors this has opened and what paths this can go down.
>I am sure it will be done sooner or later (especially if this isn't found to be rules breaking), personally I feel like we are all poorer for it
This is what happens in games, people who are passionate for a game, and have the skills will put work into these kinds of projects. Sometimes its cheating, like aimbots/multiboxing, and sometimes its not, like the bunker planning/ artillery calculator. As of now, I think this is actually a good thing, as its bringing something that is in that grey area between out into the light, and giving the devs a chance to address it and define where the line in the sand is for them in this game.
On a side note:
>I really want to make a smart ass loyalist joke, but I know I shouldn't.
Thank you for this. I apologize for coming off as defensive and a little hostile in my original reply. I always try to be a civil as possible, and want to peruse polite debates, but I'm sure you know how much of a salt mine this Reddit can be, and what it can do if you spend too much time here. Thank you for being civil despite my comments and helping me to realize my own hypocrisy in that aspect.
It seems like we agree and are ending on polite terms.....I am going to run away before balance gets mentioned and we all go crazy.
Have a pleasant day, and good luck tomorrow with your efforts to kill me.
I mean, this is a side project this dude did in his free time. The man has a life and a job outside of foxhole. "Two years" may have been around the time he came up with the idea, but who knows how many man hours have actually been put into this project? Point is, its one dude, making a code as a hobby for his hobby of playing foxhole. Yeah it may not be the most reliable, but you can't pin the blame on him for it. Coding takes time, and you can't demand one person dedicate all of theirs to a hobby project.
It looks at the map and sends a ping anytime a blue dot is spotted so....all the damn time. It also pings for random abandoned trucks, motorboats, spam pings the same thing 10 times, etc.
It's a cool idea controlled by one dude that literally no one uses but wardens cry about whenever they're losing
Just spitballing, here, but maybe the reason the Devs didn't say much about it that there's no way for them to enforce its removal.
The only real thing for them to do is to make its effects built-in to the game and available for everyone to use (which would be kind of cool, really).
There’s absolutely a way for them to enforce it’s removal, like, for instance, simply asking Kastow to remove it lol.
Kastow and the developers have been in decently close contact as long as I remember.
While I'm sure Kastow would remove it if the devs asked him to they would be setting a precedent that they couldn't enforce. More tools will come along that will provide the same or larger advantages that might not be so accommodating and then it would look like a double standard.
Warden for 3 wars here. No issues with sky net cause I wouldn’t use it if I was green man, I have a radio and a brain. Also, we still have clans pulling off partisan SC satchel ops. They happened A LOT in 91 actually iirc. It’s no different than just people being logged in and aware, in fact probably worse than that if it really does blow your pings up with every single blue dot.
Basically this, I mute every server I join because as we all know you end up just constantly joining new foxhole servers already, the sad truth of the matter is that it’s biggest value the past 3-4 wars has been warden partisans dying to qrf and rage quitting or going on hunts for ‘sky-net alts’ in a confused attempt to stop what they assume got them when it’s always just intel chat or nearby builders scratch the one person I know who actually tries to use the thing. I got qrfed by 4 dudes in an argonaut what I thought was 30 seconds into being on WT coverage but I chock it up to an obs tower I didn’t notice and carry on my day, but some people seem to take it as a sure sign someone who likes being pinged 60 times a day every time a blue dot appears on intel had the mystical ability to redeploy faster because they checked discord instead of reading that funny red text in chat
>But it was posted to reddit
Yes and? I did write "Someone didnt read rules looks like", does that mean OP? No u chill out, who cares of downvotes or upvotes lol
Bruh the war has ended, it's not like skynet is some top secret that no one knows what it does, especially when funny shit like in the pic is posted that gives no value to the enemy.
If wardens think this Skynet is used a lot then you are very mistaken.
If you are playing the game you will be using discord on channels of interest to you where you talk with people.
If you are doing logistics you will be focusing on a very specific area that most likely isnt covered by someone. You will rather just use your own map or ask your friend to watch the map for you while you drive/freighter to the specific area.
Partisan? you are most likely being spotted very early on into your journey because we have a lot of vision on the map in general spotting you, and someone (like me) will sit in intel chat and watch you, the blue dot run around and say what direction you are going until someone QRF's. If you are also a QRF player, you will use your own map and scout around as you cant control what hex and what location someone is watching
Skynet is a fun toy to have, but its also very, very rarely used with very, very limited people using it and it wont compete with you as a player watching the map in any shape or form as you can update the direction of said blue dot in real time.
So because you personally don’t use it that means it’s never used and not a a problem at all got it thanks. How about we just remove it from the discord since it’s clearly breaking the game code of conduct
how about you stop beeing so angry about a tool that does something ANY player can do 10 times better and is NOT used by anyone exept the programmer to play around with it.
If it’s not used by anyone then nobody would care if it was removed. In reality it is used to qrf large scale partisan activity. How would you feel if wardens had a faction only tool that obviously breaches the rules and gives an unfair advantage? Every Reddit collie would lose their minds and there would be 15 posts a day about it
are you talking about warden only building tool or arty calculator?
most of the ppl here dont seam to know that both sides have programers that dont share their creations.
I am going to repeat your argument back to you, tell me if you see the problem.
"It doesn't matter if Skynet is cheating/not, or if it is fair/not because it is poorly made."
Do you see the problem with that line of thinking?
If it doesn't matter (as you claim) then why not just open source the app?
I dont see Skynet as cheating in any shape or form. its basically a player using the map just as anyone else with a delay thats posted on a discord thats not being used.
Its perhaps \_you\_ that sees this as cheating, i personally dont.
Im not the creator of this and the creator plays a specific faction that he wants to help out, think its in his own right to choose weather the other faction gets one of their own or not, thats not something anyone else can dictate. aint colonials problem and the creators problem that warden dont have anyone that bothers making this.
Both factions to my knowledge has something player made thats unique to them so why put so much effort into something that realisticly is so marginally used
…but the whole point of partisan uniforms is you show up on radar less for people to spot you. Skynet allows you to be spotted even if 0 people are accessing the map.
>I dont see Skynet as cheating in any shape or form.
It is a external tool that gains an unfair advantage, that violates rule 5.
>its basically a player using the map just as anyone else with a delay thats posted on a discord thats not being used.
Its perhaps _you_ that sees this as cheating, i personally dont.
Right, but it does so without requiring a player to do so, and can do so without fail or error (if well made).
By the same logic you use input broadcasting shouldn't violate the rules because I could just get another player to also run a Cutler and shoot at my target. It is the removal of the human component, and it's ability to make mistakes, that makes it an unfair advantage.
>aint colonials problem and the creators problem that warden dont have anyone that bothers making this.
By that same logic it's fine if you get alted because you could create alt accounts yourself. Neither faction should be dependent on how far they are willing to push the rules?
>Both factions to my knowledge has something player made thats unique to them so why put so much effort into something that realisticly is so marginally used
Because it is wrong to use it at all, and if we accept that it is fine to do something wrong once then we can delude ourselves into think it's fine to use it more than once.
I am going to give a hyperbolic counter example but I want you to focus on why you disagree because I think you would feel otherwise if the shoe was on the other foot
Let's say I write a program that scans the map, then ddos the server until it is forced to restart, anytime more than 10 Colonials approach a Warden city. Let's assume by technicality this didn't count as a violation of rule 2 (don't harass or attack players/staff).
Would you sit there and say it's fine because some Colonial could make the same software or could just infinite ping loop the server manually?
skynet is the equivlent of a secerity guard watching the map and hitting an alarm button anytime a blue dot is seen in backlines.
the bot just automates the mesages and pings. even before skynet we QRF frequently
your examples are overstating skynets capablities
>skynet is the equivlent of a secerity guard watching the map and hitting an alarm button anytime a blue dot is seen in backlines.
Except a security guard can fall asleep, or look away.
By that same token a multiboxer is just a few guys with discord.
>the bot just automates the mesages and pings. even before skynet we QRF frequently
Right but the human input is the important part, people can fuck up, a well built not won't.
>your examples are overstating skynets capablities
And is skynet done development, never to be updated or iterated on?
Even if both of those are true it doesn't escape the fact you are using a piece of third party software to give yourself an unfair advantage.
>Mutiboxing has to do with alt accounts
Multiple accounts not alt accounts (you can have as many accounts as you want, they just have to be the same faction).
>Skynet has no use for it
I never said it did use alt accounts, I was saying that both function the same way (removing human error) to provide an advantage.
Skynet scans the map and reports when a Warden is seen (once "fixed") it will do so without error.
Multiboxing allows multiple soldiers to act with perfect coordination for unrealistic effects (7 filters fired at the same target at the same time).
Both perform a task that could be done by a person, by a program with a superhuman level of precision (again once finished).
there is no human error like i said the bot only does the alarm part and ping people either way it only optimizes QRF towards discord which is ineffecvtive anyway
Stop making skynet into a massive thing which it isnt.
Its an tool that 100% of the playerbase has access to, by opening up your damn map. There's literally no advantages to having it. Skynet isnt something that shows 100% of the entire map and pings. its a very specific location where the observer chooses to watch. Absolutely no different from someone playing and looking at the map, which logistics, atleast on colonial side does very often to help spot partisans.
95% of the time you are spotted by a player idling.
Its no different from you sitting there yourself, having someone on discord broadcast their map while they are afk.
I dont need a counter example because some person literally thinks this is a massive issue when it isnt. That you cant accept what skynet is, is your problem. Devs has stated their opinion on it, now move on.
Your example is so extreme and nothing to do with skynet at all. Skynet is literally 1 player choosing a location WHILE ingame on his computer watching an area. it has absolutely zero interaction within the game other than looking at the map over a stream.
Please educate yourself on what this skynet really is please and dont think its some "program" we use to scan the whole map. its literally zero difference from you sitting ingame with your map open.
>Stop making skynet into a massive thing which it isnt.
Its an tool that 100% of the playerbase has access to,
So is multiboxing and alting, you can get more people or buy more accounts so it's fine.
>There's literally no advantages to having it.
Then get rid of it
>Skynet isnt something that shows 100% of the entire map and pings. its a very specific location where the observer chooses to watch. Absolutely no different from someone playing and looking at the map, which logistics, atleast on colonial side does very often to help spot partisans.
Okay so it's a poorly made tool, then get rid of it.
>Your example is so extreme and nothing to do with skynet at all. Skynet is literally 1 player choosing a location WHILE ingame on his computer watching an area.
Right so you can afk, that doesn't help.
>I dont need a counter example because some person literally thinks this is a massive issue when it isnt.
It is bullshit, and if Wardens made it you would be throwing a hissy fit about it.
>Please educate yourself on what this skynet really is please and dont think its some "program" we use to scan the whole map. its literally zero difference from you sitting ingame with your map open.
Okay and even if the current developer isn't qualified to make it so, a competent one will.
The devs didn't give it their blessings, I read the message on Sigil they gave a half hearted answer that didn't bless or curse it.
Whether it is used, to what extent and how efficiently is beside the point when it has the potential to catch every single blip 24/7. A feat that no human or even an entire faction of humans could achieve.
Searching for intel on the map consumes time. If you are doing something in the game that consumes time you are playing the game. A bot is searching for intel on the map and is thus playing the game.
You have to draw the line somewhere with AI or you might end up taking orders from SUPREME-COMMANDER-v0.8844 in war 132 that will have real-time analysis of the slightest weaknesses in a defensive line.
I've heard about this before. It's been around for a long time. I've heard rumors it uses radio from both sides. What I do know is that it exists. If "no one is using it" on the collie side then you wouldn't mind getting rid of it even though no one is using it... right?
I wouldn't want to shut it down since that'd be a waste, but I'm fine with it being accessible to wardens. I am not it's owner though, so it ain't for me to decide.
To clear up this misconception: It does not use radio info from opposite team alts. Skynet spotters are Colonial accounts using Colonial intel from Colonial watch towers/obs towers/listening kits. You're welcome to think what you want about the program, but it *does not take information from the other team*.
You're not the first person I've seen mention something like that (or you've mentioned it in this subreddit before) so I just wanted to clear the air, that's all.
From Code of Conduct "Do not exploit bugs, modify the game client, or use external tools to gain an unfair advantage. This encompasses things such as input broadcasting tools. Mods that do not provide the player an unfair advantage are not included in this rule"
My interpretation of what I saw was the devs gave a noncommittal response that wasn't a firm response either way.
But I am going off memory and second hand info so I could be wrong.
I would argue if it isn't a violation of the RAW it is a violation of RAI.
Proof?
Edit: I have now seen the screenshot, and sure enough - Kastow did not get Dev approval. He asked and the devs replied neutrally, saying they had not had enough time to evaluate the tool. There was no yay or nay.
Wardens have a bunker design tool that also shows fire arcs (badly).
It's an external tool, giving one side an advantage, but with some issues in implementation. This tool has been in use for ages.
How is skynet bad, but bunker fire arcs good?
None of those happen with skynet. It may be a loophole, but it does not affect the game client in any way. In order for it to be working properly, it requires an afk player (people using their own accounts whilst afk) to be watching every region individually. This is streamed to a bot (that runs independently from the game and receives only the stream as input). It then pings if it sees enough blue pixels.
It does not gain an unfair advantage in the strictest sense of the word as it requires multiple players to do what one or two active players could and thus is completely feasible for both sides to achieve.
I am unsure if this is high level satire or extreme salt.
What are they gonna do, nerf watchtowers and radios? Give all partisans a 10 minute head start when they walk into a region?
Ban players for AFKing with their map open?
Ban users streaming game footage in discord, including those using it to correct artillery fire and coordinate small unit tactics? Ban all websites that have direct access to the API? Ban use of foxhole IP outside of official sanctioned contexts?
Devs have been extremely vague about this for a very long time, and I think its about time we realize this is probably intentional.
They don't have a position on it because they've decided early on they want to allow players to have agency and make their own tools, and its finally reached a point where its beginning to show gaps in their "vision".
Unless you can actually name a solution that isn't also a blanket ban on all other "legitimate" tools players have made - all of which give certain advantages over players not using it - you wont be able to make an actual point by simply calling it "unfair advantage" on virtue that it uses technology and the other team has it.
Either all of its fair or none of it is.
Every time I see a post about Skynet I say the same thing.
This is not in the spirt of the game. There's no argument for using bot's to gain advantage in a game like this.
Skynet was used extensively by high rank collie vets to QRF most all high level partisan activity by the wardens this last war.
The argument that "It pings too much" is not valid in any way. Any vet knows the difference between a false ping and real one at a glance.
It's a very powerful tool one side has access to and the other does not. It's also not part of the game itself.
who are those "high rank collie vets" you talk about?
vets also know that they can press "M" and get the same info faster than taping out and in again.
as you are talking about tools one side has acces to and the other doesnt, do you know that both sides have programs for building, arty calculators and so on?
might wana either let the programmers on your team know that you want this tool (and probably get told they wont invest time into something noone will use) or start a convo with them why they keep tools hidden and dont share them.
This tab out excuse is so strange.
Every scrooper has a second monitor.
Every builder has a second monitor.
99.9% of the time if you ask any backline person something they have to pause whatever they were actually paying attention to and ask you to say it again.
Why would I think QRF wouldn't have a second monitor?
Of course a delayed "where were they" outside the game is immensely helpful.
In my experience you will get bored looking at a single discord chat all day if it's mostly hundreds of false positives and rarely valid pings. I see players unsubscribe from human posted QRF pings after all, I'm sure both factions could relate to overreactions and pointless pings sometimes getting out of hand. So you need the patience of a saint to deal with a bot that literally pings if you open your inventory.
Take it from someone that played 14 hours a day last war and way too much in general. the QRF's were majority of the time called out by logistics players in intel chat. that wasnt a bot. People look at the map, we have vision. something we've been working on having to. \*drumroll\* counter partisans thats been a huge issue for a good while.
Adapt, overcome.
The bot ping will not allow you to see 100% of the map. It will not allow you to see the direction of the player running more efficiently than you looking at the map yourself and/or having people call it out in chat, which we very often do.
I'm not sure of what i'm saying.
With my clan a few wars ago, we planned a landing with a lot of stuff and a whale. We took a path very far away from the coasts and people looking for enemy boats so we couldn't be spotted by towers. When arriving at the landing spot, there was a real colonial army waiting for us. We then realised there was an afk colonial in the water with a radio backback. Not sure if it has a connection to skynet but that's the first time i heard about it
They didn't need Skynet to see that. The collie with the radio backpack was enough on its own.
Also when it comes to naval landing. The smallest hint of a possible landing brings in a swarm of players and QRF.
We don't need it. But Kastow is awesome and we'd like his pet project to not get shut down because of a misinformed witch hunt.
It's quite easy to reconcile those 2 positions tbh.
As a warden partisan as much as I see people shrugging this off, it notably changed the dynamic of my experience from the get go and before I even knew this was a thing I knew something was wrong. Colonial QRF became much more potent this war. Time is everything when you are a partisan and this tool cuts it down immensely
I had trouble even getting into backlines, the response was absurdly quick where we were constantly intercepted within 2 minutes of crossing into enemy territory and before we could even locate a target. The tool allows them to track where people get in and where they are headed to an unfair detail and coordination as the intel into these aspects give them an additional upper hand in a mode where QRF already has a huge advantage.
As much as people want to dismiss this I guarantee you it heavily impacted our ability to effectively partisan and carry out our operations where there were overwhelming response forces before we had a chance to perform an action that required one.
Additionally/lastly listening kits rarely lasted more than a few minutes as the bot allows them to see the exact location our dot / vehicle moved to that would take a regular player an extreme eye for detail (also they cant look at 8+ regions at once with dot level detail).
Dude, I had a moment this war where a buddy and I took a motorboat out along the edge of the map, nowhere near the watchtowers and were hijacking and destroying collie supply boats that were in a giant floating cluster out in the middle of the ocean. No possible way for a watchtower to see us, but only about 3 minutes into our spree, with us never having seen a single collie player, a collie gunboat shows up out of nowhere to wreck our shit. I was baffled by it in the moment, and now that I'm learning about this tool, I feel incredibly disgusted and like I got cheated.
"Colonial QRF became much more potent this war." you know skynet has been around for more than just this war right? it's been around quite a long time.
QRF was more potent cuz we had more pop this war.
It's not even skynet.
It's... no, you know what, it's all skynet. Skynet's in all the Warden discords taking a leading role in OP planning just so it can tell us about it. Skynet is running the Dev team too. The highwayman was originally going to be a BT for the Wardens, but Skynet said no.
Rumour has it that Skynet single handedly captured Kirknell last war.
Skynet threw a smoke grenade at a full health Silverhand once and it died immediately.
tbh, havent seen this is in Sigils, just saw it after some dude was complaining about it, I don't get how they do it, but this is an absolute beauty even tho no one (I think) actually uses it. Weird thing is, how are wardens able to access this even tho it requires the user to be Verified or am I wrong?
There's no way this can be enforced though, right? Unless map updates are limited to special equipment or to a very local area around a player, so it'd be a logistical nightmare trying to keep a load of empty accounts near the front alive so they can constantly monitor the map
So by extension, using the API to calculate Storm Cannon firing solutions is also cheating? How about using a mod to show RDZ, the heightmap, and tiers of roads on the in-game map an unfair advantage? Is using a bot to quickly calculate the remaining percentage of a tech tier cheating? How about doing that by hand, would that also be cheating because it involves a “third party” (ie photoshop) to count pixels?
What exactly is the line to be drawn here?
The line being drawn is using an external program to ping a QRF server anytime a high priority backline target spots a partisan with no counterplay or really any knowledge of its existence. Falls into the same bracket as controlling multiple models.
There is a significant difference between QOL changes and changes that create an unequal advantage. I can scrap, but I can scrap faster with 5 models. I can watch for partisans and QRF, but I can QRF faster with an auto-ping to 100 people.
You aren’t classifying the limit of an external program though. Because by your very own logic of “external program with no counterplay” programs like calculating Storm Cannon firing solutions are cheating.
There’s no need to calculate or do any kind of in-game scouting when you can perfectly calculate the range and arc for your Storm Cannon automatically. There is no counterplay to this, there is no way to know if any certain Storm Cannon is using this tactic or not, etc.
How about programs that automatically calculate health of bunkers, are they cheating? That’s an external program that allows players complete visibility of a mechanic that the developers *intentionally made vague*. What about mods? Using mods to artificially change the game to benefit you seems pretty cheaty. Afterall, what exactly is the difference between a hacked client and bypassing your games’ settings to artificially increase your sight? One is clearly bannable, the other is vague and widespread by many vets on both factions.
You say that these are “mere QoL changes,” I say these unfair advantages that regular people do not have. Would it be cheating to livestream your tech progress to a bot that automatically detects when a tier progresses?
I think the real issue is a heavy misunderstanding of how Skynet works. You say that it’s similar to multiboxing, but it’s really not and completely different. Unlike multiboxing, which artificially injects inputs of an account, Skynet doesn’t have any capability to impact in-game capabilities. There are no accounts dedicated solely to the bot, and there are no inputs given to the game from the bot. Skynet only works *exclusively* through players live-streaming the game to the bot. It’s only a one-way street of information.
Because, fundamentally, it’s no different to a player watching the map from a livestream and pinging a discord whenever they see an enemy dot. Sure, a bot can do it significantly faster and doesn’t require rest, but an organized group could do the same thing as effectively. A player *could* access the API and calculate exactly how far away any given point is from a Storm Cannon, or directly spot it through advance trigonometry, but why do it when a bot could do it in an instant?
The clear difference is static information (map distances, heightmap, rdz) versus dynamic information (presence of enemies, enemy locations, current map Intel).
That is very clearly where you draw the line.
So mods that change the color of enemies to make them more noticeable, especially on intel, is cheating then? How about changing the game’s settings to increase your sight, is that cheating as well?
Afterall, it impacts the visibility of dynamic information, right?
Colors are static traits.
Changing the games settings to increase sight is interesting. I personally think players shouldn't be incentivized to give themselves migraines to get better visibility. So I hope devs change that.
But I would argue that is irrelevant to the discussion here which is on external tools exposing static vs dynamic information.
How are colors made to directly improve your capabilities to gain dynamic information “static traits”?
You externally change your game’s settings to prove your situational awareness, specifically around gaining better “dynamic information.” How is that not relevant?
You are picking and choosing what counts as “dynamic” or “static,” or what is even relevant, without an actual consistent argument.
Would Skynet be perfectly fine if, instead of an AI, it was an organized group of players using the same inputs?
The entire discussion is around external tools.
Changing the colors is static, it does not present new information to users by way of external tools.
Your last question is incoherent to me. What does players using the same inputs even mean in this context?
Changing the colors or pushing the game’s settings beyond normal requires external tools. It’s literally a mod, where do you think you get these from?
And Skynet doesn’t give players any new information they had no right to either. Skynet *only* works as long as there is radio coverage and people willing to livestream for it. The bot doesn’t somehow gather more information than what is possible, it just makes it easier to access.
In the last question, I specifically mean through the same way that Skynet gets it’s information from, ie players livestreaming the map.
It makes information available to individuals that they could not humanly access before. No one is capable of looking at radios in 20+ hexes simultaneously for enemies.
The fact that players have to Livestream doesn't matter at all, it is so completely orthogonal to this conversation.
If you think changing colors of items is comparable there is no arguing with you, it again is just a vague and distraction-ary argument.
Your entire argument is literally based around how external systems providing a distinct and noticeable advantage on “””dynamic systems””” should be banned.
I provided a clear argument of at least two situations where that point falls flat, but “tHaT’s NoT tHe PoInT!1!” A mod is an *external* modification to the game.
And in your response it tells me that the real problem with Skynet has nothing to actually do with how the information is achieved, or what information is given, or anything really. It’s just because it’s a program that the Wardens don’t have access to.
What?
I think everything affects other players, especially stuff like Storm Cannon calculators or mods that make it easier to spot enemies / build. That’s an unfair advantage that other players don’t get, correct?
Or do you think Skynet is an external system that artificially controls accounts? How do you think Skynet works?
Explain how this is fair. Collies here. Honestly, explain how using bots to play the game for you is not cheating.
Edit: sigil qrf here to tie up loose ends. Typical.
It works by people afking looking at the map and periodically taking screenshots
Then the bot counts the amount of blue
If the blur is sufficient to be the plip on a map from a player it starts pinging people until it isn't.
No it's people's real accounts
It sometimes have shitty coverage because it requires people to volunteer their computers while they do other stuff. Last war the coverage most of the time quite weak
So.. a program running on a player account is never a bot, when the player actually plays occasionally, and shuts the bot down for that duration?
Does this only sound ludicrous to me?
What…?
For starters, the program isn’t running on any players account. It’s not even connected to *any* in-game account at all.
Players, whenever they go AFK (like, for instance, upgrading a bunker base), they have a option to livestream their open map for a bot to use. From there, the bot checks the livestream for any blue dots and if it locates one, it takes a screenshot and posts it into the discord.
There is no external AI sending inputs into the game, no bot is automatically using fake accounts, nothing. If Skynet was *really* breaking the game’s CoC in a manner that Clapfoot dislikes, they would’ve told Kastow to stop when he asked about it.
just to be clear, the program is not "playing the game" it is collecting data from the game and than posts on discord.
id say its fair as the wardens can do the same.
its also not the only tool that got programed over the years.
there is building calculators, there is arty calculators and a bunch of other tools that are way more used. both sides have their programers working on stuff.
Also you prettending that there is an organised attempt to shut this conversation down when the programmer himself contacted the devs about this is laughable at best.
you talk about fairnes while at best beeing angry and grumpy and at worst deliberatly try to gaslight, hard to take your "oppinion" serious.
I said rule bending/breaking, and yes I read the message too. The devs showed as much enthusiasm as they did towards multiboxing and alting, which is to say none. The only difference between those actions and this one is the amount of bitching from the community.
But hey maybe some Wardens will go ahead and make their own version and you can join us on team "this is a bad idea".
Is it useful? Not really. Would I notice if it was gone? Not at all. I agree with all the arguments for why it's not against the rules, but that doesn't mean it's not against the spirit of the game. I don't know of anyone that actually uses it or even likes having it. At the very least, for the sake of promoting a better community, we could get rid of it?
GOD I LOVE SKYNET! Without providing a meaningful difference in the war that I have noticed, it manages to consistently piss off wardens and get near 300 comment threads. THIS SHIT IS LIKE CRACK TO ME
Actually, This kind of thing is awsome. It allows for Intel Gathering to be a bit more realistic in that you have somewhere where information is being collected and correlated. As a Warden Player, I see no problem, and I doubt my colonial enemies do either...
No one can QRF 24/7 either. Doesn't really matter if they have intel 24/7. If they're on QRF duty, then they're most likely already on Foxhole and they can see both the map and the in-game intel chat.
Nah, there was no one streaming intel, as it isn't used by a lot of people anyway, so it has no screenshots.
So the whole "Skynet is cheating! Wardens can't partisan!!!" thingy is like a great psyop. When we don't even have people streaming or people using it.
So next time any warden dies to QRF, feel free to blame skynet instead of staying outside of WT/OBS bunker range lol. Even skynet can't catch you if you avoid those.
Its an extra thing. it occasionally is useful but in all honesty most major partisan raids are usually detected faster in game by the hundreds of people in game that have radios and look at the map every now and then. Even I in all honesty don't utilize skynet and largely prefer using the in game map + radio not because i'm against skynet but because it's more comfortable that way.
The detected partisans by the streams gets fed into a bot, which allows us to create heatmaps showing regular partisan activity/partisan routes on map.
It helps us plug holes when we will see a straight red line passing through a border/hole in the bulwark. Which means it needs to be patched up.
It also helps creating heatmaps for frontline which are like insanely red in colour due to a LOT of activity.
I think this should be in the base game for both factions to begin with. Provide proper toggles and other necessary pizzaz too. Would work as an interesting "mission" system.
And also, use those scout uniforms... And if you're in a vehicle, don't expect to be unseen.
For all the different parts of military engagement that foxhole captures, it lacks the awareness of an actual competent garrison at any given base. I'd welcome any improvement in the area.
Skynet is exactly the same level as people sharing streams in Discord for artillery spotting. It’s information that you would usually have gather by stopping what you’re doing and checking bino/map.
It’s not possible to stop that sort of thing and it’s not possible to stop Skynet without the devs making fundamental changes to how intel works.
If you’re constantly pinging watchtowers then you’re not a good partisan, especially in the age of listening kits and intel centres.
This breaks TOS as it is a third-party program used to gain an unfair advantage.
Discord arty spotter streams are fair as both sides can easy do it, whereas skynet requires a whole-ass program, website and discord bot.
In your opinion it breaks TOS, however, the devs are fully aware of Skynet and have not requested it not be used.
It's automating a task that one human could do. Multiboxing was worse as it was allowing one person to do the jobs of 4-5 people simultaneously i.e. 1 person repairing turns into 5 people repairing without the need to actually get 5 different people working on the same job, that's why there is a specific reference to input broadcasting in the revision to the TOS, but no specific mention of anything to do with monitoring the map.
Arty spotter streams might be able to be done by anyone, but then anyone can sit and watch the map all day, except arty streams are totally against the spirit of what artillery is supposed to be i.e. you firing at coordinates and relying on a spotter to relay the information back to you.
When the same thing could be accomplished by two people staring at a map 24/7 and dropping pings in discord, it’s not really a concern. It grants no advantage and it’s not worth the devs’ time.
The thing I don’t understand and I don’t mean to sound toxic or anything is that this one of the wars that it has been used the least compared to other peoples are why is it problem now when in the past it hasn’t been? Just curious
Guarantee they ban this, it's a 3rd party program being used for an advantage, that's against the TOS of every game I've ever played online.
Good luck with it
I dunno. Have any Wardens tried to make their own? Or do you just complain about something you want but for once it isnt being handed to your faction on a silver platter?
Hmmm, I wonder if wardens didn't complain about the bunker tool being collie specific and cry about it as "Unfair advantage" aswell. Saw a lot of people like those, as at that time the dev didn't want to make it warden, maybe due to the bugs it had.
Its a neutral tool now, as the bugs got polished out, everyone can use it. But wardens have a tendency to complain about any tool collies make.
We told the wardens to get a dev and make their own bunker tool when they were complaining about the unfinished collie bunker tool. So maybe, just get developers in your faction?
Oh wait, I remember what happened when a previous warden developer made some artillery tool, some salty wardens pushed him out of the game with death threats, because the tool would have cost like 1-2$ or something, and it wasn't even released properly.
Yup, do it, its the greatest psyop known to man, and it just makes wardens get funny ideas on trying to ping the bot, when literally everyone has the channel muted, and almost never has people streaming intel even, for the bot to spam ping.
Feel free to do so however.
No dude, wardens wasting time on trying to ping the bot is literally the best thing that the bot has done.
\+all the scared warden partisans whenever they come within watchtower range thinking that 500 collies are looking at them at an instant from skynet. Its a great fear weapon.
This 100% breaks TOS and is completely unfair.
This is almost as bad as multiboxing. Same argument applies, dont use a third party program to make something more efficient, do it yourself.
You also posted the exact reason, why 99% of colonials don't use this tool. Imagine that every time a blue dot appears, you'd get pinged by discord. Like ANY stray partisan will give you a ping, it'll drive you insane.
I don’t use it, takes me a total of 5 seconds to scan the map for partisans, alt tabbing to discord is way more steps than hitting M. Also I never want to be pinged about blue dots.
Then there shouldn't be any issue with removing it, right?
In your walls
noone on the green team cares about the bot (guess its not true as i think the programer likes to use his skills to create stuff)
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Why do you want to remove it? It’s people creation. Uselessness or not, I’m proud of how people can make such thing.
I would consider it an "external tool to gain an unfair advantage" and therefore shouldn't be allowed. The counterargument is that it's not actually all that much of an advantage. So one side thinks it's a rule-breaking external tool that goes against the spirit of the game, and the other side apparently doesn't care about it (despite screenshots showing that people do actually check the bot's posts and react to them), so I see plenty of reasons to support its removal and no objections to its removal.
the "external tool to gain an unfair advantage" argument is so annoying, the rule is reffering to game modifications like aim-bot, auto-build, etc. by YOUR definiton, discord itself would be bannable (external program used to help ppl coordinate and get an advantage) but obviously thats not true
What about accessibility features, game breaking or no? what if foxhole disabled me
i assume you refer to things like "Click Lock", well since its a built-in tool in basically every computer that runs the game, i think thats OK. and its not like it even provides any real advantage (the player still has to sit at the computer, and manually select blueprints, get building resources, etc.) the tool was created to reduce strain on person's wrist, and its used for exactly that purpose.
Oh yeah I checked the bot. It’s either a random warden locked truck or a clueless dude being lost. Why don’t you go join collie and sigil and give it a check before you say this is “unfair advantage”.
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damn, malding so bad?
then there shouldnt be a problem shutting up about it, right? XD
Why do you want to remove it? It’s people creation. Uselessness or not, I’m proud of how people can make such thing.
Then enforce no use of discord or other voice communication means forehead.
Yes, the reason it’s broken is that WARDENS CANNOT PARTISAN AT ALL. Who cares if you get pinged on Discord, Colonials practically have their back lines entirely locked down and can hunt any stray partisan they want.
That's right, Skynet is absolutely busted, Warden could never touch ANY backline- OH WAIT, why was Sitaria blue again last war?
Do you even know how skynet works? If so you’d know how Sitaria happened
Sitaria happened because almost every vet online was in conclave and didnt want to leave and get que'd. QRF calls were like 2 minutes before they reached the city and Ill be honest I didnt qrf for the same reason lmao I knew we were winning either that night or the next day, so no point in missing out on the fight I just spent my entire day/night on.
Well, you're the guy implying that collies got untouchable backlines due to skynet, yet there was an succesful OP with a couple Chieftains + a CV despite passing through the most watched logi routes on the collie side.
You clearly do not know how it works if your saying wardens cant partisan at all.
sounds like skill issue + no recon
Warden partisans need to step it up then
Some locks are broken, because i get my collie vehicles from their back lines. Also, ARG seems to have a good lockpicker.
if they mad at skynet wait till they find out about
Imagine collies subscribing for their part of the map or for their storm cannons to guard, how much that cuts down the noise to only the ones assigned to them.
I don't get it? (like I do not understand what i'm looking at) Is it some sort of automated messaging system that looks at the radar in game and pings you when enemies are spotted near stormcannons? If so yes it's kinda bad but nothing is stopping both sides from using this bot \*edit spelling\*
Kinda. I don't really fully understand how it works, all I know is that it pings way too often for it to be highly accurate. a storm cannon raid could be just a frontline that's gotten close to a colonial SC. Or it could be a sinlge partisan who happened to be spotted once in the hex. **False positives are waaaay more common than actual raids** so for the most part people just ignore it, in fact i forgot it was still going until i saw this. Edit: It litterally thinks the windows loading circle is a warden and will ping everyone and everything for that.
the OwO style is still much better, just have dudes on 24/7 staring at a map. Thats how the Moors never fell in war 90 (i think)
We all just kinda.....played, alot
Thats the Chad way to do it.
Its my understanding that it requires that people be streaming their game with their map open to one single region. The reason why you need a person for each region is that the map needs to be zoomed in so the program can properly read the streaming data. If your zoomed out too far or too close in then it can't accurately determine what its looking at. The program then reads the streaming data for blue dots and reports on them. Also looks like the program is smart enough to look at some sort of map reference data so it can figure out where on the map the blue dot is not just the specific region. Based on the screenshots it can also interpret where storm cannons are as well. I wonder if its smart enough to know vehicle vs individual partisan vs groups, etc, etc. From a technical standpoint its impressive but its not very practical to use. * It requires a person for each region that needs to be monitored to be streaming. * It dumps a lot of data out quickly that is no more helpful then just looking at the map in the game yourself. * It does generate false positives in some situations. * Unless they improved it, it only sees pixel changes but can't actually interpret what its seeing but rather give a best guess. In my opinion its value is not in detecting a problem. Its value is in the aftermath. Somehow a partisan got into a secured location? You can then go back and look at the data and see exactly how the partisan got to where he is and fix the spot he exploited. That is, if you had sufficient map coverage with watch towers and had someone streaming that region at the time. That is where its true value is at.
I mean, it sounds pretty op for backline use.
>I don't really fully understand how it works, all I know is that it pings way too often for it to be highly accurate. Without the source code I can say with 100% but if I had to guess based off the comments it is a MI that was trained to scan the map for Warden infantry and vehicles and then make a discord post. Based on the text shared it also makes a guess as to the intent of the Warden based off what is nearby. >Or it could be a sinlge partisan who happened to be spotted once in the hex. False positives are waaaay more common than actual raids so for the most part people just ignore it That seems like an easy fix to be honest. >It litterally thinks the windows loading circle is a warden and will ping everyone and everything for that. That also should be an easy fix.
I only have a basic understanding of coding, but I agree with your assessment. It is probably a very simple program that simply scans the screen to find a group of blue pixels, and records their location on the map. If it registers blue pixels near a Storm cannon site, it posts an alert in discord. There is probably much more too it than that, but that's the basic premise. So if it sees one scout near a SC, Ping! That player moves and the bot registers a new blue dot 5 seconds later, Ping! That warden hops in a truck on the side of the road and turns it blue, ping! That truck sits there for 3 hours in tower range near the SC, ping! ping! ping! ping! ping! You can see why most Collies just mute it and never use it. Sure a lot of the reliability issues can be fixed, but the point we are trying to make is that they haven't been, and therefor it is not an "external tool to gain an unfair ***advantage***" because it provides no actual advantage as of now. This is obvious as we clearly still lost MANY SC to raids this war, and heck ARG even managed to turn Sitaria Blue despite this "absolutely game breaking" map bot. We are much better off having people just online 24/7 watching SCs. Also, my only question is, Why didn't any Wardens come up with something similar? We have this same debate every time someone smart comes along and tries to use that smarts. When Collies came up with the Arty calculator this was the exact same argument. Granted The Arty calculator was fairly basic math that anyone who has finished a high school geometry class can do on their own with enough time, but the parallels are the same. If this is so game breaking, then a Warden should create a similar code, and then make it better.
>Sure a lot of the reliability issues can be fixed, but the point we are trying to make is that they haven't been, and therefor it is not an "external tool to gain an unfair advantage" My issue with this statement is essentially "it doesn't matter if I am cheating because I am doing a bad job at it", (I am aware that is not what you said, but if you view it as cheating then that is the message that gets received. I would argue it is better to snip the problem in the bud then wait for it to get worse, wouldn't it have been better to prevent multiboxing before it became a widespread problem then wait till after? >Also, my only question is, Why didn't any Wardens come up with something similar? I really want to make a smart ass loyalist joke, but I know I shouldn't. The honest answer is it's a simple idea in hindsight as most ideas are, but it is clever in a vacuum (ie without hearing about it first). It also requires the right combination of personality, skills, and concept to work. I had a similar idea a few months before I first heard about this, but I didn't have the right combination to make it a reality. >If this is so game breaking, then a Warden should create a similar code, and then make it better. I am sure it will be done sooner or later (especially if this isn't found to be rules breaking), personally I feel like we are all poorer for it's (and the copycats it will spawn) existence. I also shudder to imagine this idea + alts.
>I would argue it is better to snip the problem in the bud then wait for it to get worse, wouldn't it have been better to prevent multiboxing before it became a widespread problem then wait till after? This, is a very fair argument. I will even admit that this is very much a grey zone (which is the other reason I don't use it), and can even see how bad this can get if someone really takes a crack at it, using Learning AIs and such to bring the power of this to a whole new level. While I personally don't see it as a problem at the moment, I also definitely understand people who believe it is. I suppose I should clarify my position a little more. I don't see this particular bot in particular as "game breaking" or cheating, but I do fear the doors this has opened and what paths this can go down. >I am sure it will be done sooner or later (especially if this isn't found to be rules breaking), personally I feel like we are all poorer for it This is what happens in games, people who are passionate for a game, and have the skills will put work into these kinds of projects. Sometimes its cheating, like aimbots/multiboxing, and sometimes its not, like the bunker planning/ artillery calculator. As of now, I think this is actually a good thing, as its bringing something that is in that grey area between out into the light, and giving the devs a chance to address it and define where the line in the sand is for them in this game. On a side note: >I really want to make a smart ass loyalist joke, but I know I shouldn't. Thank you for this. I apologize for coming off as defensive and a little hostile in my original reply. I always try to be a civil as possible, and want to peruse polite debates, but I'm sure you know how much of a salt mine this Reddit can be, and what it can do if you spend too much time here. Thank you for being civil despite my comments and helping me to realize my own hypocrisy in that aspect.
It seems like we agree and are ending on polite terms.....I am going to run away before balance gets mentioned and we all go crazy. Have a pleasant day, and good luck tomorrow with your efforts to kill me.
The only thing stopping wardens from developing it is 2 years of dev time and a smart coder like Kastow
This, according to Colonials, largely \*worthless\* tool took \*two years\* to develop? Fucking yikes.
The tool is not worthless, just not being used to its fullest potential.
I mean, this is a side project this dude did in his free time. The man has a life and a job outside of foxhole. "Two years" may have been around the time he came up with the idea, but who knows how many man hours have actually been put into this project? Point is, its one dude, making a code as a hobby for his hobby of playing foxhole. Yeah it may not be the most reliable, but you can't pin the blame on him for it. Coding takes time, and you can't demand one person dedicate all of theirs to a hobby project.
Guys Ukrainian as well, people always give him flak for the bot, as if he doesn’t have more pressing matter going on in his country atm.
It looks at the map and sends a ping anytime a blue dot is spotted so....all the damn time. It also pings for random abandoned trucks, motorboats, spam pings the same thing 10 times, etc. It's a cool idea controlled by one dude that literally no one uses but wardens cry about whenever they're losing
Just spitballing, here, but maybe the reason the Devs didn't say much about it that there's no way for them to enforce its removal. The only real thing for them to do is to make its effects built-in to the game and available for everyone to use (which would be kind of cool, really).
There’s absolutely a way for them to enforce it’s removal, like, for instance, simply asking Kastow to remove it lol. Kastow and the developers have been in decently close contact as long as I remember.
While I'm sure Kastow would remove it if the devs asked him to they would be setting a precedent that they couldn't enforce. More tools will come along that will provide the same or larger advantages that might not be so accommodating and then it would look like a double standard.
Warden for 3 wars here. No issues with sky net cause I wouldn’t use it if I was green man, I have a radio and a brain. Also, we still have clans pulling off partisan SC satchel ops. They happened A LOT in 91 actually iirc. It’s no different than just people being logged in and aware, in fact probably worse than that if it really does blow your pings up with every single blue dot.
Basically this, I mute every server I join because as we all know you end up just constantly joining new foxhole servers already, the sad truth of the matter is that it’s biggest value the past 3-4 wars has been warden partisans dying to qrf and rage quitting or going on hunts for ‘sky-net alts’ in a confused attempt to stop what they assume got them when it’s always just intel chat or nearby builders scratch the one person I know who actually tries to use the thing. I got qrfed by 4 dudes in an argonaut what I thought was 30 seconds into being on WT coverage but I chock it up to an obs tower I didn’t notice and carry on my day, but some people seem to take it as a sure sign someone who likes being pinged 60 times a day every time a blue dot appears on intel had the mystical ability to redeploy faster because they checked discord instead of reading that funny red text in chat
Get your own sky net with blackjack and hookers then
"6. Posting screenshots of Sigil channels into public discords accessible by Wardens can lead to exclusion." Someone didnt read rules looks like
>>Posting… into public *discords* No rule was broken. Not that I encourage this.
This screenshot was published on FOD and then here, so the inital poster broke the rule.
So basically you are saying "Skynet" isnt breaking any rules either then? Thanks for confirming and reading rules and taking them as they are written.
What? I’m saying the bit that you posted about SIGIL rules wasn’t broken lol. I was just being pedantic is all.
But it was? This picture originated on FOD.
But it was *posted* to reddit. Not discord. Can you chill with the downvotes it was just a lame joke.
seams to me the only ppl downvoting was you two, so you might wana "chill with the downvotes" too XD
I haven’t downvoted anyone at all.
>But it was posted to reddit Yes and? I did write "Someone didnt read rules looks like", does that mean OP? No u chill out, who cares of downvotes or upvotes lol
This is the stupidest fucking argument I’ve ever been involved in in my life. Have a good day this ain’t worth it.
Yet you keep arguing omegalul
That was literally me… saying I didn’t want to keep arguing.
Bruh the war has ended, it's not like skynet is some top secret that no one knows what it does, especially when funny shit like in the pic is posted that gives no value to the enemy.
Is this a discord? Looks like someone didn’t read the rules
Yes, picture is from discord.
Is English maybe not your first language?
No it isn't. Why would you assume it is? Is english your only language? Why is it important?
good job being racist pig lmao *warden nature* kicks in
If wardens think this Skynet is used a lot then you are very mistaken. If you are playing the game you will be using discord on channels of interest to you where you talk with people. If you are doing logistics you will be focusing on a very specific area that most likely isnt covered by someone. You will rather just use your own map or ask your friend to watch the map for you while you drive/freighter to the specific area. Partisan? you are most likely being spotted very early on into your journey because we have a lot of vision on the map in general spotting you, and someone (like me) will sit in intel chat and watch you, the blue dot run around and say what direction you are going until someone QRF's. If you are also a QRF player, you will use your own map and scout around as you cant control what hex and what location someone is watching Skynet is a fun toy to have, but its also very, very rarely used with very, very limited people using it and it wont compete with you as a player watching the map in any shape or form as you can update the direction of said blue dot in real time.
So because you personally don’t use it that means it’s never used and not a a problem at all got it thanks. How about we just remove it from the discord since it’s clearly breaking the game code of conduct
How about we don’t. Code your own bot, nerd 🤓.
how about you stop beeing so angry about a tool that does something ANY player can do 10 times better and is NOT used by anyone exept the programmer to play around with it.
If it’s not used by anyone then nobody would care if it was removed. In reality it is used to qrf large scale partisan activity. How would you feel if wardens had a faction only tool that obviously breaches the rules and gives an unfair advantage? Every Reddit collie would lose their minds and there would be 15 posts a day about it
are you talking about warden only building tool or arty calculator? most of the ppl here dont seam to know that both sides have programers that dont share their creations.
I am going to repeat your argument back to you, tell me if you see the problem. "It doesn't matter if Skynet is cheating/not, or if it is fair/not because it is poorly made." Do you see the problem with that line of thinking? If it doesn't matter (as you claim) then why not just open source the app?
I dont see Skynet as cheating in any shape or form. its basically a player using the map just as anyone else with a delay thats posted on a discord thats not being used. Its perhaps \_you\_ that sees this as cheating, i personally dont. Im not the creator of this and the creator plays a specific faction that he wants to help out, think its in his own right to choose weather the other faction gets one of their own or not, thats not something anyone else can dictate. aint colonials problem and the creators problem that warden dont have anyone that bothers making this. Both factions to my knowledge has something player made thats unique to them so why put so much effort into something that realisticly is so marginally used
…but the whole point of partisan uniforms is you show up on radar less for people to spot you. Skynet allows you to be spotted even if 0 people are accessing the map.
>I dont see Skynet as cheating in any shape or form. It is a external tool that gains an unfair advantage, that violates rule 5. >its basically a player using the map just as anyone else with a delay thats posted on a discord thats not being used. Its perhaps _you_ that sees this as cheating, i personally dont. Right, but it does so without requiring a player to do so, and can do so without fail or error (if well made). By the same logic you use input broadcasting shouldn't violate the rules because I could just get another player to also run a Cutler and shoot at my target. It is the removal of the human component, and it's ability to make mistakes, that makes it an unfair advantage. >aint colonials problem and the creators problem that warden dont have anyone that bothers making this. By that same logic it's fine if you get alted because you could create alt accounts yourself. Neither faction should be dependent on how far they are willing to push the rules? >Both factions to my knowledge has something player made thats unique to them so why put so much effort into something that realisticly is so marginally used Because it is wrong to use it at all, and if we accept that it is fine to do something wrong once then we can delude ourselves into think it's fine to use it more than once. I am going to give a hyperbolic counter example but I want you to focus on why you disagree because I think you would feel otherwise if the shoe was on the other foot Let's say I write a program that scans the map, then ddos the server until it is forced to restart, anytime more than 10 Colonials approach a Warden city. Let's assume by technicality this didn't count as a violation of rule 2 (don't harass or attack players/staff). Would you sit there and say it's fine because some Colonial could make the same software or could just infinite ping loop the server manually?
skynet is the equivlent of a secerity guard watching the map and hitting an alarm button anytime a blue dot is seen in backlines. the bot just automates the mesages and pings. even before skynet we QRF frequently your examples are overstating skynets capablities
>skynet is the equivlent of a secerity guard watching the map and hitting an alarm button anytime a blue dot is seen in backlines. Except a security guard can fall asleep, or look away. By that same token a multiboxer is just a few guys with discord. >the bot just automates the mesages and pings. even before skynet we QRF frequently Right but the human input is the important part, people can fuck up, a well built not won't. >your examples are overstating skynets capablities And is skynet done development, never to be updated or iterated on? Even if both of those are true it doesn't escape the fact you are using a piece of third party software to give yourself an unfair advantage.
Mutiboxing has to do with alt accounts Skynet has no use for it
>Mutiboxing has to do with alt accounts Multiple accounts not alt accounts (you can have as many accounts as you want, they just have to be the same faction). >Skynet has no use for it I never said it did use alt accounts, I was saying that both function the same way (removing human error) to provide an advantage. Skynet scans the map and reports when a Warden is seen (once "fixed") it will do so without error. Multiboxing allows multiple soldiers to act with perfect coordination for unrealistic effects (7 filters fired at the same target at the same time). Both perform a task that could be done by a person, by a program with a superhuman level of precision (again once finished).
there is no human error like i said the bot only does the alarm part and ping people either way it only optimizes QRF towards discord which is ineffecvtive anyway
Stop making skynet into a massive thing which it isnt. Its an tool that 100% of the playerbase has access to, by opening up your damn map. There's literally no advantages to having it. Skynet isnt something that shows 100% of the entire map and pings. its a very specific location where the observer chooses to watch. Absolutely no different from someone playing and looking at the map, which logistics, atleast on colonial side does very often to help spot partisans. 95% of the time you are spotted by a player idling. Its no different from you sitting there yourself, having someone on discord broadcast their map while they are afk. I dont need a counter example because some person literally thinks this is a massive issue when it isnt. That you cant accept what skynet is, is your problem. Devs has stated their opinion on it, now move on. Your example is so extreme and nothing to do with skynet at all. Skynet is literally 1 player choosing a location WHILE ingame on his computer watching an area. it has absolutely zero interaction within the game other than looking at the map over a stream. Please educate yourself on what this skynet really is please and dont think its some "program" we use to scan the whole map. its literally zero difference from you sitting ingame with your map open.
>Stop making skynet into a massive thing which it isnt. Its an tool that 100% of the playerbase has access to, So is multiboxing and alting, you can get more people or buy more accounts so it's fine. >There's literally no advantages to having it. Then get rid of it >Skynet isnt something that shows 100% of the entire map and pings. its a very specific location where the observer chooses to watch. Absolutely no different from someone playing and looking at the map, which logistics, atleast on colonial side does very often to help spot partisans. Okay so it's a poorly made tool, then get rid of it. >Your example is so extreme and nothing to do with skynet at all. Skynet is literally 1 player choosing a location WHILE ingame on his computer watching an area. Right so you can afk, that doesn't help. >I dont need a counter example because some person literally thinks this is a massive issue when it isnt. It is bullshit, and if Wardens made it you would be throwing a hissy fit about it. >Please educate yourself on what this skynet really is please and dont think its some "program" we use to scan the whole map. its literally zero difference from you sitting ingame with your map open. Okay and even if the current developer isn't qualified to make it so, a competent one will. The devs didn't give it their blessings, I read the message on Sigil they gave a half hearted answer that didn't bless or curse it.
Whether it is used, to what extent and how efficiently is beside the point when it has the potential to catch every single blip 24/7. A feat that no human or even an entire faction of humans could achieve. Searching for intel on the map consumes time. If you are doing something in the game that consumes time you are playing the game. A bot is searching for intel on the map and is thus playing the game. You have to draw the line somewhere with AI or you might end up taking orders from SUPREME-COMMANDER-v0.8844 in war 132 that will have real-time analysis of the slightest weaknesses in a defensive line.
I've heard about this before. It's been around for a long time. I've heard rumors it uses radio from both sides. What I do know is that it exists. If "no one is using it" on the collie side then you wouldn't mind getting rid of it even though no one is using it... right?
I wouldn't want to shut it down since that'd be a waste, but I'm fine with it being accessible to wardens. I am not it's owner though, so it ain't for me to decide.
To clear up this misconception: It does not use radio info from opposite team alts. Skynet spotters are Colonial accounts using Colonial intel from Colonial watch towers/obs towers/listening kits. You're welcome to think what you want about the program, but it *does not take information from the other team*.
I said rumors. No misconception.
You're not the first person I've seen mention something like that (or you've mentioned it in this subreddit before) so I just wanted to clear the air, that's all.
I’d be happier with a bot that scans friendly bases and generates supply tickets so I can efficiently resupply a whole route
From Code of Conduct "Do not exploit bugs, modify the game client, or use external tools to gain an unfair advantage. This encompasses things such as input broadcasting tools. Mods that do not provide the player an unfair advantage are not included in this rule"
Kastow cleared it the the devs if i'm not wrong.
My interpretation of what I saw was the devs gave a noncommittal response that wasn't a firm response either way. But I am going off memory and second hand info so I could be wrong. I would argue if it isn't a violation of the RAW it is a violation of RAI.
Proof? Edit: I have now seen the screenshot, and sure enough - Kastow did not get Dev approval. He asked and the devs replied neutrally, saying they had not had enough time to evaluate the tool. There was no yay or nay.
Sigil admins email the devs questions, and they give us answers. Its pretty straightforward I'm fairly certain WUH has it as well
I'm asking for something beyond a simple reddit comment. Surely someone has a screenshot?
Go to SIGIL and ask for Kastow himself, Warden brain rot.
I believe this was put infront of the devs and they didnt say it was not allowed
The Airbud approach.
Wardens have a bunker design tool that also shows fire arcs (badly). It's an external tool, giving one side an advantage, but with some issues in implementation. This tool has been in use for ages. How is skynet bad, but bunker fire arcs good?
None of those happen with skynet. It may be a loophole, but it does not affect the game client in any way. In order for it to be working properly, it requires an afk player (people using their own accounts whilst afk) to be watching every region individually. This is streamed to a bot (that runs independently from the game and receives only the stream as input). It then pings if it sees enough blue pixels. It does not gain an unfair advantage in the strictest sense of the word as it requires multiple players to do what one or two active players could and thus is completely feasible for both sides to achieve.
I am unsure if this is high level satire or extreme salt. What are they gonna do, nerf watchtowers and radios? Give all partisans a 10 minute head start when they walk into a region? Ban players for AFKing with their map open? Ban users streaming game footage in discord, including those using it to correct artillery fire and coordinate small unit tactics? Ban all websites that have direct access to the API? Ban use of foxhole IP outside of official sanctioned contexts? Devs have been extremely vague about this for a very long time, and I think its about time we realize this is probably intentional. They don't have a position on it because they've decided early on they want to allow players to have agency and make their own tools, and its finally reached a point where its beginning to show gaps in their "vision". Unless you can actually name a solution that isn't also a blanket ban on all other "legitimate" tools players have made - all of which give certain advantages over players not using it - you wont be able to make an actual point by simply calling it "unfair advantage" on virtue that it uses technology and the other team has it. Either all of its fair or none of it is.
Every time I see a post about Skynet I say the same thing. This is not in the spirt of the game. There's no argument for using bot's to gain advantage in a game like this. Skynet was used extensively by high rank collie vets to QRF most all high level partisan activity by the wardens this last war. The argument that "It pings too much" is not valid in any way. Any vet knows the difference between a false ping and real one at a glance. It's a very powerful tool one side has access to and the other does not. It's also not part of the game itself.
who are those "high rank collie vets" you talk about? vets also know that they can press "M" and get the same info faster than taping out and in again. as you are talking about tools one side has acces to and the other doesnt, do you know that both sides have programs for building, arty calculators and so on? might wana either let the programmers on your team know that you want this tool (and probably get told they wont invest time into something noone will use) or start a convo with them why they keep tools hidden and dont share them.
This tab out excuse is so strange. Every scrooper has a second monitor. Every builder has a second monitor. 99.9% of the time if you ask any backline person something they have to pause whatever they were actually paying attention to and ask you to say it again. Why would I think QRF wouldn't have a second monitor? Of course a delayed "where were they" outside the game is immensely helpful.
In my experience you will get bored looking at a single discord chat all day if it's mostly hundreds of false positives and rarely valid pings. I see players unsubscribe from human posted QRF pings after all, I'm sure both factions could relate to overreactions and pointless pings sometimes getting out of hand. So you need the patience of a saint to deal with a bot that literally pings if you open your inventory.
A human player cannot look at 20 hexes at once. It is not equivalent to hitting M.
Take it from someone that played 14 hours a day last war and way too much in general. the QRF's were majority of the time called out by logistics players in intel chat. that wasnt a bot. People look at the map, we have vision. something we've been working on having to. \*drumroll\* counter partisans thats been a huge issue for a good while. Adapt, overcome. The bot ping will not allow you to see 100% of the map. It will not allow you to see the direction of the player running more efficiently than you looking at the map yourself and/or having people call it out in chat, which we very often do.
I was a collie the war before this, I've used it myself. I know how it works, and how useful it can be.
I'm not sure of what i'm saying. With my clan a few wars ago, we planned a landing with a lot of stuff and a whale. We took a path very far away from the coasts and people looking for enemy boats so we couldn't be spotted by towers. When arriving at the landing spot, there was a real colonial army waiting for us. We then realised there was an afk colonial in the water with a radio backback. Not sure if it has a connection to skynet but that's the first time i heard about it
They didn't need Skynet to see that. The collie with the radio backpack was enough on its own. Also when it comes to naval landing. The smallest hint of a possible landing brings in a swarm of players and QRF.
Collie QRF be like: "It is not useful." Warden QRF be like: "Then their is no problem in removing it." Collie QRF be like: "WeLl AcTuAlLY"
We don't need it. But Kastow is awesome and we'd like his pet project to not get shut down because of a misinformed witch hunt. It's quite easy to reconcile those 2 positions tbh.
Jesus Christ man, I play collies a lot (am non-loyalist), but this is (if not cheating) incredibly scummy.
My man the bot is pinging the bunker base inventory lmao
As a warden partisan as much as I see people shrugging this off, it notably changed the dynamic of my experience from the get go and before I even knew this was a thing I knew something was wrong. Colonial QRF became much more potent this war. Time is everything when you are a partisan and this tool cuts it down immensely I had trouble even getting into backlines, the response was absurdly quick where we were constantly intercepted within 2 minutes of crossing into enemy territory and before we could even locate a target. The tool allows them to track where people get in and where they are headed to an unfair detail and coordination as the intel into these aspects give them an additional upper hand in a mode where QRF already has a huge advantage. As much as people want to dismiss this I guarantee you it heavily impacted our ability to effectively partisan and carry out our operations where there were overwhelming response forces before we had a chance to perform an action that required one. Additionally/lastly listening kits rarely lasted more than a few minutes as the bot allows them to see the exact location our dot / vehicle moved to that would take a regular player an extreme eye for detail (also they cant look at 8+ regions at once with dot level detail).
Dude, I had a moment this war where a buddy and I took a motorboat out along the edge of the map, nowhere near the watchtowers and were hijacking and destroying collie supply boats that were in a giant floating cluster out in the middle of the ocean. No possible way for a watchtower to see us, but only about 3 minutes into our spree, with us never having seen a single collie player, a collie gunboat shows up out of nowhere to wreck our shit. I was baffled by it in the moment, and now that I'm learning about this tool, I feel incredibly disgusted and like I got cheated.
"Colonial QRF became much more potent this war." you know skynet has been around for more than just this war right? it's been around quite a long time. QRF was more potent cuz we had more pop this war.
It's not even skynet. It's... no, you know what, it's all skynet. Skynet's in all the Warden discords taking a leading role in OP planning just so it can tell us about it. Skynet is running the Dev team too. The highwayman was originally going to be a BT for the Wardens, but Skynet said no. Rumour has it that Skynet single handedly captured Kirknell last war. Skynet threw a smoke grenade at a full health Silverhand once and it died immediately.
tbh, havent seen this is in Sigils, just saw it after some dude was complaining about it, I don't get how they do it, but this is an absolute beauty even tho no one (I think) actually uses it. Weird thing is, how are wardens able to access this even tho it requires the user to be Verified or am I wrong?
Going collie/warden for a war to start drama with screenshots is a tale as old as time ahah
There's no way this can be enforced though, right? Unless map updates are limited to special equipment or to a very local area around a player, so it'd be a logistical nightmare trying to keep a load of empty accounts near the front alive so they can constantly monitor the map
Yeah Id say using third party programs to spot partisans is creating an unfair advantage. This shit should be covered under the rules about cheating
So by extension, using the API to calculate Storm Cannon firing solutions is also cheating? How about using a mod to show RDZ, the heightmap, and tiers of roads on the in-game map an unfair advantage? Is using a bot to quickly calculate the remaining percentage of a tech tier cheating? How about doing that by hand, would that also be cheating because it involves a “third party” (ie photoshop) to count pixels? What exactly is the line to be drawn here?
The line being drawn is using an external program to ping a QRF server anytime a high priority backline target spots a partisan with no counterplay or really any knowledge of its existence. Falls into the same bracket as controlling multiple models. There is a significant difference between QOL changes and changes that create an unequal advantage. I can scrap, but I can scrap faster with 5 models. I can watch for partisans and QRF, but I can QRF faster with an auto-ping to 100 people.
You aren’t classifying the limit of an external program though. Because by your very own logic of “external program with no counterplay” programs like calculating Storm Cannon firing solutions are cheating. There’s no need to calculate or do any kind of in-game scouting when you can perfectly calculate the range and arc for your Storm Cannon automatically. There is no counterplay to this, there is no way to know if any certain Storm Cannon is using this tactic or not, etc. How about programs that automatically calculate health of bunkers, are they cheating? That’s an external program that allows players complete visibility of a mechanic that the developers *intentionally made vague*. What about mods? Using mods to artificially change the game to benefit you seems pretty cheaty. Afterall, what exactly is the difference between a hacked client and bypassing your games’ settings to artificially increase your sight? One is clearly bannable, the other is vague and widespread by many vets on both factions. You say that these are “mere QoL changes,” I say these unfair advantages that regular people do not have. Would it be cheating to livestream your tech progress to a bot that automatically detects when a tier progresses? I think the real issue is a heavy misunderstanding of how Skynet works. You say that it’s similar to multiboxing, but it’s really not and completely different. Unlike multiboxing, which artificially injects inputs of an account, Skynet doesn’t have any capability to impact in-game capabilities. There are no accounts dedicated solely to the bot, and there are no inputs given to the game from the bot. Skynet only works *exclusively* through players live-streaming the game to the bot. It’s only a one-way street of information. Because, fundamentally, it’s no different to a player watching the map from a livestream and pinging a discord whenever they see an enemy dot. Sure, a bot can do it significantly faster and doesn’t require rest, but an organized group could do the same thing as effectively. A player *could* access the API and calculate exactly how far away any given point is from a Storm Cannon, or directly spot it through advance trigonometry, but why do it when a bot could do it in an instant?
The clear difference is static information (map distances, heightmap, rdz) versus dynamic information (presence of enemies, enemy locations, current map Intel). That is very clearly where you draw the line.
So mods that change the color of enemies to make them more noticeable, especially on intel, is cheating then? How about changing the game’s settings to increase your sight, is that cheating as well? Afterall, it impacts the visibility of dynamic information, right?
Colors are static traits. Changing the games settings to increase sight is interesting. I personally think players shouldn't be incentivized to give themselves migraines to get better visibility. So I hope devs change that. But I would argue that is irrelevant to the discussion here which is on external tools exposing static vs dynamic information.
How are colors made to directly improve your capabilities to gain dynamic information “static traits”? You externally change your game’s settings to prove your situational awareness, specifically around gaining better “dynamic information.” How is that not relevant? You are picking and choosing what counts as “dynamic” or “static,” or what is even relevant, without an actual consistent argument. Would Skynet be perfectly fine if, instead of an AI, it was an organized group of players using the same inputs?
The entire discussion is around external tools. Changing the colors is static, it does not present new information to users by way of external tools. Your last question is incoherent to me. What does players using the same inputs even mean in this context?
Changing the colors or pushing the game’s settings beyond normal requires external tools. It’s literally a mod, where do you think you get these from? And Skynet doesn’t give players any new information they had no right to either. Skynet *only* works as long as there is radio coverage and people willing to livestream for it. The bot doesn’t somehow gather more information than what is possible, it just makes it easier to access. In the last question, I specifically mean through the same way that Skynet gets it’s information from, ie players livestreaming the map.
It makes information available to individuals that they could not humanly access before. No one is capable of looking at radios in 20+ hexes simultaneously for enemies. The fact that players have to Livestream doesn't matter at all, it is so completely orthogonal to this conversation. If you think changing colors of items is comparable there is no arguing with you, it again is just a vague and distraction-ary argument.
Your entire argument is literally based around how external systems providing a distinct and noticeable advantage on “””dynamic systems””” should be banned. I provided a clear argument of at least two situations where that point falls flat, but “tHaT’s NoT tHe PoInT!1!” A mod is an *external* modification to the game. And in your response it tells me that the real problem with Skynet has nothing to actually do with how the information is achieved, or what information is given, or anything really. It’s just because it’s a program that the Wardens don’t have access to.
One affects players while the other affects client side/no one else
What? I think everything affects other players, especially stuff like Storm Cannon calculators or mods that make it easier to spot enemies / build. That’s an unfair advantage that other players don’t get, correct? Or do you think Skynet is an external system that artificially controls accounts? How do you think Skynet works?
Holy shit, have you people ever used this shit. I’ve rarely catch anything useful whenever I look at it.
We have a very different understanding of what game breaking is
Explain how this is fair. Collies here. Honestly, explain how using bots to play the game for you is not cheating. Edit: sigil qrf here to tie up loose ends. Typical.
I hate the fucking arms race of bullshit these two sides keep pulling Jesus fuck can’t you just play the game the way it was designed?
It works by people afking looking at the map and periodically taking screenshots Then the bot counts the amount of blue If the blur is sufficient to be the plip on a map from a player it starts pinging people until it isn't.
I doubt its “people.” Do you mean bots?
No it's people's real accounts It sometimes have shitty coverage because it requires people to volunteer their computers while they do other stuff. Last war the coverage most of the time quite weak
So.. a program running on a player account is never a bot, when the player actually plays occasionally, and shuts the bot down for that duration? Does this only sound ludicrous to me?
What…? For starters, the program isn’t running on any players account. It’s not even connected to *any* in-game account at all. Players, whenever they go AFK (like, for instance, upgrading a bunker base), they have a option to livestream their open map for a bot to use. From there, the bot checks the livestream for any blue dots and if it locates one, it takes a screenshot and posts it into the discord. There is no external AI sending inputs into the game, no bot is automatically using fake accounts, nothing. If Skynet was *really* breaking the game’s CoC in a manner that Clapfoot dislikes, they would’ve told Kastow to stop when he asked about it.
just to be clear, the program is not "playing the game" it is collecting data from the game and than posts on discord. id say its fair as the wardens can do the same. its also not the only tool that got programed over the years. there is building calculators, there is arty calculators and a bunch of other tools that are way more used. both sides have their programers working on stuff. Also you prettending that there is an organised attempt to shut this conversation down when the programmer himself contacted the devs about this is laughable at best. you talk about fairnes while at best beeing angry and grumpy and at worst deliberatly try to gaslight, hard to take your "oppinion" serious.
So is this the cope narrative for the war defeat then?
Nope just evidence of one side bending/breaking the rules.
Contradicted by evidence that it was shown to Foxhole Devs who didnt' care, therefore it is not rule breaking
I said rule bending/breaking, and yes I read the message too. The devs showed as much enthusiasm as they did towards multiboxing and alting, which is to say none. The only difference between those actions and this one is the amount of bitching from the community. But hey maybe some Wardens will go ahead and make their own version and you can join us on team "this is a bad idea".
Is it useful? Not really. Would I notice if it was gone? Not at all. I agree with all the arguments for why it's not against the rules, but that doesn't mean it's not against the spirit of the game. I don't know of anyone that actually uses it or even likes having it. At the very least, for the sake of promoting a better community, we could get rid of it?
GOD I LOVE SKYNET! Without providing a meaningful difference in the war that I have noticed, it manages to consistently piss off wardens and get near 300 comment threads. THIS SHIT IS LIKE CRACK TO ME
Actually, This kind of thing is awsome. It allows for Intel Gathering to be a bit more realistic in that you have somewhere where information is being collected and correlated. As a Warden Player, I see no problem, and I doubt my colonial enemies do either...
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Because nobody’s on the radio 24/7 dumbass
No one can QRF 24/7 either. Doesn't really matter if they have intel 24/7. If they're on QRF duty, then they're most likely already on Foxhole and they can see both the map and the in-game intel chat.
The amount of times I have been QRF'd by this thing is absolutely stupid.
How are you so sure that it's by this thing and not by someone else spotting you or someone else you've killed?
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So you have no issue with the bot being disallowed then?
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What is a bigger issue warden alta or cutlers/push40/250?
Wardens should develop their own. And make it better.
Is there a screenshot of when we attacked Sitaria?
Nah, there was no one streaming intel, as it isn't used by a lot of people anyway, so it has no screenshots. So the whole "Skynet is cheating! Wardens can't partisan!!!" thingy is like a great psyop. When we don't even have people streaming or people using it. So next time any warden dies to QRF, feel free to blame skynet instead of staying outside of WT/OBS bunker range lol. Even skynet can't catch you if you avoid those.
Then why have it if nobody uses it?
Its an extra thing. it occasionally is useful but in all honesty most major partisan raids are usually detected faster in game by the hundreds of people in game that have radios and look at the map every now and then. Even I in all honesty don't utilize skynet and largely prefer using the in game map + radio not because i'm against skynet but because it's more comfortable that way.
The detected partisans by the streams gets fed into a bot, which allows us to create heatmaps showing regular partisan activity/partisan routes on map. It helps us plug holes when we will see a straight red line passing through a border/hole in the bulwark. Which means it needs to be patched up. It also helps creating heatmaps for frontline which are like insanely red in colour due to a LOT of activity.
I...legit do not fucking care
I think this should be in the base game for both factions to begin with. Provide proper toggles and other necessary pizzaz too. Would work as an interesting "mission" system. And also, use those scout uniforms... And if you're in a vehicle, don't expect to be unseen. For all the different parts of military engagement that foxhole captures, it lacks the awareness of an actual competent garrison at any given base. I'd welcome any improvement in the area.
Skynet is exactly the same level as people sharing streams in Discord for artillery spotting. It’s information that you would usually have gather by stopping what you’re doing and checking bino/map. It’s not possible to stop that sort of thing and it’s not possible to stop Skynet without the devs making fundamental changes to how intel works. If you’re constantly pinging watchtowers then you’re not a good partisan, especially in the age of listening kits and intel centres.
This breaks TOS as it is a third-party program used to gain an unfair advantage. Discord arty spotter streams are fair as both sides can easy do it, whereas skynet requires a whole-ass program, website and discord bot.
In your opinion it breaks TOS, however, the devs are fully aware of Skynet and have not requested it not be used. It's automating a task that one human could do. Multiboxing was worse as it was allowing one person to do the jobs of 4-5 people simultaneously i.e. 1 person repairing turns into 5 people repairing without the need to actually get 5 different people working on the same job, that's why there is a specific reference to input broadcasting in the revision to the TOS, but no specific mention of anything to do with monitoring the map. Arty spotter streams might be able to be done by anyone, but then anyone can sit and watch the map all day, except arty streams are totally against the spirit of what artillery is supposed to be i.e. you firing at coordinates and relying on a spotter to relay the information back to you.
When the same thing could be accomplished by two people staring at a map 24/7 and dropping pings in discord, it’s not really a concern. It grants no advantage and it’s not worth the devs’ time.
So what you're saying is that a bot is playing the game the way two people would?
I don’t disagree that it breaks rules, I just don’t think it’s worth the devs’ time.
Then why have it? Because it IS used. It breaks TOS and should be forcefully removed from the game.
who cares bruh, cope
The thing I don’t understand and I don’t mean to sound toxic or anything is that this one of the wars that it has been used the least compared to other peoples are why is it problem now when in the past it hasn’t been? Just curious
We've known about it for a while. Now the whistle's been blown its finally time to see some change as this clearly breaks TOS.
Man we’re gonna get into a mudfight over this aren’t we
Guarantee they ban this, it's a 3rd party program being used for an advantage, that's against the TOS of every game I've ever played online. Good luck with it
How about instead of whining you go make your own bot?
Because everybody can just do that, mhm.
I dunno. Have any Wardens tried to make their own? Or do you just complain about something you want but for once it isnt being handed to your faction on a silver platter?
Hmmm, I wonder if wardens didn't complain about the bunker tool being collie specific and cry about it as "Unfair advantage" aswell. Saw a lot of people like those, as at that time the dev didn't want to make it warden, maybe due to the bugs it had. Its a neutral tool now, as the bugs got polished out, everyone can use it. But wardens have a tendency to complain about any tool collies make. We told the wardens to get a dev and make their own bunker tool when they were complaining about the unfinished collie bunker tool. So maybe, just get developers in your faction? Oh wait, I remember what happened when a previous warden developer made some artillery tool, some salty wardens pushed him out of the game with death threats, because the tool would have cost like 1-2$ or something, and it wasn't even released properly.
source, i made it the fuck up
Ask people about what happened to VersaceGuy You don't need more info than that guy's name. You will find the biggest streamer drama ever.
Time to get it to trigger as many times as possible across the whole front. Then hit some midline Base with sudden strikes.
Yup, do it, its the greatest psyop known to man, and it just makes wardens get funny ideas on trying to ping the bot, when literally everyone has the channel muted, and almost never has people streaming intel even, for the bot to spam ping. Feel free to do so however.
I see you're not happy with the warden reaction. Cope.
No dude, wardens wasting time on trying to ping the bot is literally the best thing that the bot has done. \+all the scared warden partisans whenever they come within watchtower range thinking that 500 collies are looking at them at an instant from skynet. Its a great fear weapon.
This 100% breaks TOS and is completely unfair. This is almost as bad as multiboxing. Same argument applies, dont use a third party program to make something more efficient, do it yourself.
Collies are slaves to AI confirmed.