Skynet should not be allowed. It removes the need for players to actually pay attention to the map. People have many reasons to not like it. The biggest issue is not that wardens do not have their own skynet, but the precedent that would be set by the wardens choosing to make their own (which we could do if we really wanted to). If the wardens decided to make their own, then it could potentially turn into a 3rd party program arms race, where each side tries to get a leg up on the other by making programs that progressively automate parts of the game to their max efficiency and eliminate human error. The effects of this can be clearly seen in games like EVE online, where the game is incredibly hostile to new players and you can only really play in the most efficient way unless you want to be heavily outclassed.
It is not a fun experience.
This game relies on having a consistent player base. Automating things with programs makes the game less fun for the other side which drives down players and disincentivizes playing on the side that has automated it since people are no longer required to do it.
It is not healthy for the game.
This has been excessively discussed among the leadership of many warden clans and most have decided that it would be a poor idea to follow in the footsteps of the colonials for these reasons.
Reinforcing what I said above, all it takes to run skynet is to have an account with the map screen open and just run a bot that takes screenshots and feed it directly into skynet. That requires absolutely no player activity whatsoever, which ruins the spirit of the game and completely removes the element of surprise by seeing anything that a human would have missed.
In summary, whoever made skynet was so concerned about if they could, they never stopped to think if they should.
As a side note, to all those people who say it’s ok because only a few people use it, does that mean that alting or multiboxing is ok since only a few people do that? No? Ok, I thought not.
Because you can't see anything that you can't ordinarily see on map intel. Being a partisan is about avoiding enemy intel, not praying that people are too ignorant to see you.
It's automation. It makes a repetitive task easier. This is like saying "great! humans can do advanced math with enough time so we may as well just shut down all computers!".
And devs have the ability to say what automation is and is not allowed in their game. There is a reason why almost every game bans the use of bots to do things. Bots will always reduce the enjoyment of players. Having a discord to relay pings or get people for objectives isnt the issue. Automation of it and removing the time investment to see the map is.
I mean, wasn't this around the time they banned Multiboxing? Wouldn't it have made sense to ban them both If both were bad? Keep in mind most of my knowledge on this is second hand, I'm not trying to be confrontational about it.
My guy, if your knowledge is second hand and you are unsure, don't use absolute statements.
Edit since you blocked me:
I am one of those new players. First full was was the last one. (92) Even if skynet doesn't do much now, the fact that it is automation of info collecting is the problem. If 20 guys were chilling and actively updating a qrf network, then cool. The tradeoff is that 20 people are no longer contributing elsewhere. They aren't tho. There are XX number of accounts logged in providing passive contributions while their human players are (more than likely) off contributing elsewhere at the same time. Skynet is a bot program with the added benefit of being a force multiplier by freeing up human scouts to do other things.
I appreciate you engaging with the content of the argument when most on reddit prefer to just shout their rhetoric instead of having a dialog.
Let me propose for the sake of argument a mod idea: currently the vehicle minimap shows the base map but doesn't show live intel, even if the driver has a radio. Suppose we make a mod that adds intel to that map as an overlay. And to really drive the point home, suppose it plays a notification sound when a bad guy is spotted.
Technically, the player already has this information available. We aren't hacking any gamestate data or network traffic or what have you. Just persistently monitoring for danger and quickly telling the driver about it.
Does this mod affect the balance of power between partisans and logi truck drivers? How about between partisans and e.g. Spitfire QRF drivers, who no longer need to stop driving to check map?
It's not about supplying information to players that shouldn't have it. It's about removing the small (intentional) tax on player time during a period where response time is critical. Being able to see that the partisans you're chasing turned east without paying the 5 second tax of "hit M, wait for intel update, exit map and go back to driving" would be huge. So is the difference between spotting and QRFing a satchel team 10 seconds after they appear on intel vs. after 2 minutes. Or not spotting them at all.
I disagree with your analogy here.
Firstly, changing the minimap and/or having a proximity sound in this way would definitely be a client hack. A better example would be running a second account on a second screen to monitor the live map while you drive. People do this already, and it's basically a smaller version of Skynet.
In one of the many other threads about Skynet/EWS, I pointed out that many people use Discord video streams for artillery spotting. It's believed that WN on the Wardens was the first to do this so that gunboat gunners could hit moving targets easily.
On the surface, you might not think that this is a big deal, but when you consider how artillery spotting is *supposed* to function, you can see how being able to see exactly where your shots are landing without leaving the gun is a huge advantage, and totally negates the teamwork aspect of arty spotting.
Now I personally think that artillery spotting in this way should not be allowed, but it is realistically impossible to stop, as is Skynet. They are both time-saving advantages, along the same lines as multiboxing. They are grey areas and unfortunately, most of them are here to stay.
If you want to eliminate Skynet, then become a watch tower murderer. Focus on Colonial intel pieces. Use your own intel centers to see what we see.
The guys who leave when the neutral towns don’t turn their color are the worst. I sure as hell am going to keep on fighting (mostly because I’m addicted to this one game and have no current interest in any other XD)
3rd party software that uses a player AFKing w/radio to read the map and ping for partisans near SC bases. Also straight tracks them, so you don't even need a radio to chase them down while QRF.
“It doesn’t do anything” isn’t a good argument for not shutting it down. If it’s so useless then why fight people on getting it shut down? Why do you care that wardens want it gone if it’s so useless?
Ah, but note that I didn't say they shouldn't shut it down / that it doesn't do anything, it /lives in heads rent-free/. It sucks up the oxygen of wardens complaining about it, so they don't try to press the devs on things that would actually help them win, like a nerf for the quadiche.
As a propaganda tool, it's very effective. Devs could shut it down tomorrow and it will still have served it's purpose: discouraging Wardens and buying Collies another war without quadiche / other nerfs.
For example, imagine if a Warden said they made a 100% accurate artillery calculator that automatically adjusted for wind and let you hit with perfect accuracy every time. Imagine then that Collies started complaining about that on reddit instead of actually trying to win the game. Propaganda doesn't need to be accurate to serve it's purpose.
Yeah, I don't like it either. I don't mean to be toxic, but it does feel like the factions do a lot of unnecessary Psy Ops instead of just... playing the game.
That said, from what I've heard, the dev of the program is happy to take the program down if the gamedevs ask them to. I just really don't think it's worth the oxygen everyone, Collie or Warden, give it.
Yeah, a lot of Collie tankers are saying it's OP / should be nerfed. I think a well-organized regiment operation or even just a well-organized casual force can clap them pretty easily, but some folks are worried about it getting yeeted outright like the battle tanks.
They have, because its not actually cheating. I don't use it myself(I am a Frontline grunt or logi driver) but everything about it is literally just using already available in game faction information. Without WTs and the like to spot and QRFs to respond, it literally does nothing.
It's the equivalent of a Radar man scanning radar screens for intel, and it also literally takes an actual player character ter, with the map open to do the work.
This is my in game tag, all I’m saying it that alting is a problem on both sides and I’m sick of either side saying that the other is the one alting more
I know someone who used it to run a partisan down sans radio, so. False positive just means they need to make it better, & it's under active development.
This post has been removed for violating the following subreddit rule: 3. Moderation Discussion
Day 2 wondering why alts are still an issues...
Skynet should not be allowed. It removes the need for players to actually pay attention to the map. People have many reasons to not like it. The biggest issue is not that wardens do not have their own skynet, but the precedent that would be set by the wardens choosing to make their own (which we could do if we really wanted to). If the wardens decided to make their own, then it could potentially turn into a 3rd party program arms race, where each side tries to get a leg up on the other by making programs that progressively automate parts of the game to their max efficiency and eliminate human error. The effects of this can be clearly seen in games like EVE online, where the game is incredibly hostile to new players and you can only really play in the most efficient way unless you want to be heavily outclassed. It is not a fun experience. This game relies on having a consistent player base. Automating things with programs makes the game less fun for the other side which drives down players and disincentivizes playing on the side that has automated it since people are no longer required to do it. It is not healthy for the game. This has been excessively discussed among the leadership of many warden clans and most have decided that it would be a poor idea to follow in the footsteps of the colonials for these reasons. Reinforcing what I said above, all it takes to run skynet is to have an account with the map screen open and just run a bot that takes screenshots and feed it directly into skynet. That requires absolutely no player activity whatsoever, which ruins the spirit of the game and completely removes the element of surprise by seeing anything that a human would have missed. In summary, whoever made skynet was so concerned about if they could, they never stopped to think if they should. As a side note, to all those people who say it’s ok because only a few people use it, does that mean that alting or multiboxing is ok since only a few people do that? No? Ok, I thought not.
Because its not SkyNet. Its KastowNet.
OMG huge difference! So sorry.
The fact you're being downvoted says a lot about this community
Collies are probably qrfing the post by the looks of it
Collies on their way to explain how nobody uses skynet but getting an existential crisis when somebody asks why it can't be removed then.
If nobody uses it then get rid of it so that the wardens can’t complain and collies don’t have to constantly defend something they don’t use
Because you can't see anything that you can't ordinarily see on map intel. Being a partisan is about avoiding enemy intel, not praying that people are too ignorant to see you.
Great! Since it doesn't do anything at all beyond what in-game intel provides, there should be no obstacle to shutting it down.
It's automation. It makes a repetitive task easier. This is like saying "great! humans can do advanced math with enough time so we may as well just shut down all computers!".
Aiming is a repetitive task, we should make it easier with bots.
So is scrapping, wouldn’t be too hard to make a bot to do it
Except aiming is a skill challenge mechanic. Staring at dots on a map does not require skill.
And devs have the ability to say what automation is and is not allowed in their game. There is a reason why almost every game bans the use of bots to do things. Bots will always reduce the enjoyment of players. Having a discord to relay pings or get people for objectives isnt the issue. Automation of it and removing the time investment to see the map is.
They literally already decided on this though, you just don't like the decision.
They have not decided they acknowledged it but never said if it was against the rules or not
I mean, wasn't this around the time they banned Multiboxing? Wouldn't it have made sense to ban them both If both were bad? Keep in mind most of my knowledge on this is second hand, I'm not trying to be confrontational about it.
My guy, if your knowledge is second hand and you are unsure, don't use absolute statements. Edit since you blocked me: I am one of those new players. First full was was the last one. (92) Even if skynet doesn't do much now, the fact that it is automation of info collecting is the problem. If 20 guys were chilling and actively updating a qrf network, then cool. The tradeoff is that 20 people are no longer contributing elsewhere. They aren't tho. There are XX number of accounts logged in providing passive contributions while their human players are (more than likely) off contributing elsewhere at the same time. Skynet is a bot program with the added benefit of being a force multiplier by freeing up human scouts to do other things.
Oh come off it, being dismissive ain't it, especially with a lot of new players right now.
I appreciate you engaging with the content of the argument when most on reddit prefer to just shout their rhetoric instead of having a dialog. Let me propose for the sake of argument a mod idea: currently the vehicle minimap shows the base map but doesn't show live intel, even if the driver has a radio. Suppose we make a mod that adds intel to that map as an overlay. And to really drive the point home, suppose it plays a notification sound when a bad guy is spotted. Technically, the player already has this information available. We aren't hacking any gamestate data or network traffic or what have you. Just persistently monitoring for danger and quickly telling the driver about it. Does this mod affect the balance of power between partisans and logi truck drivers? How about between partisans and e.g. Spitfire QRF drivers, who no longer need to stop driving to check map? It's not about supplying information to players that shouldn't have it. It's about removing the small (intentional) tax on player time during a period where response time is critical. Being able to see that the partisans you're chasing turned east without paying the 5 second tax of "hit M, wait for intel update, exit map and go back to driving" would be huge. So is the difference between spotting and QRFing a satchel team 10 seconds after they appear on intel vs. after 2 minutes. Or not spotting them at all.
I disagree with your analogy here. Firstly, changing the minimap and/or having a proximity sound in this way would definitely be a client hack. A better example would be running a second account on a second screen to monitor the live map while you drive. People do this already, and it's basically a smaller version of Skynet. In one of the many other threads about Skynet/EWS, I pointed out that many people use Discord video streams for artillery spotting. It's believed that WN on the Wardens was the first to do this so that gunboat gunners could hit moving targets easily. On the surface, you might not think that this is a big deal, but when you consider how artillery spotting is *supposed* to function, you can see how being able to see exactly where your shots are landing without leaving the gun is a huge advantage, and totally negates the teamwork aspect of arty spotting. Now I personally think that artillery spotting in this way should not be allowed, but it is realistically impossible to stop, as is Skynet. They are both time-saving advantages, along the same lines as multiboxing. They are grey areas and unfortunately, most of them are here to stay. If you want to eliminate Skynet, then become a watch tower murderer. Focus on Colonial intel pieces. Use your own intel centers to see what we see.
If someone uses a night vision hack they aren't seeing anything they wouldn't see by getting closer. The logic is undeniable!
Possibly the worst analogy I’ve ever seen on the internet, congratulations
Day 3 of wondering when wardens will log on in early war to take territories on Day 1
when they have pop again
The guys who leave when the neutral towns don’t turn their color are the worst. I sure as hell am going to keep on fighting (mostly because I’m addicted to this one game and have no current interest in any other XD)
NERF Colonial early mamon rushes!
Same reason why Discords arent banned when you have available in game chat with squad/regiments.
interesting way to admit you are alting
Interesting that you assume only a warden could not like it? Maybe 'cause its an unsportsmanlike advantage?
Burner account and troll post.
what even is Skynet??? some kinda 3rd party software for the game right, what does it do?
3rd party software that uses a player AFKing w/radio to read the map and ping for partisans near SC bases. Also straight tracks them, so you don't even need a radio to chase them down while QRF.
Colonial propaganda. It doesn't do jack besides live in some Warden heads rent-free.
“It doesn’t do anything” isn’t a good argument for not shutting it down. If it’s so useless then why fight people on getting it shut down? Why do you care that wardens want it gone if it’s so useless?
Ah, but note that I didn't say they shouldn't shut it down / that it doesn't do anything, it /lives in heads rent-free/. It sucks up the oxygen of wardens complaining about it, so they don't try to press the devs on things that would actually help them win, like a nerf for the quadiche. As a propaganda tool, it's very effective. Devs could shut it down tomorrow and it will still have served it's purpose: discouraging Wardens and buying Collies another war without quadiche / other nerfs. For example, imagine if a Warden said they made a 100% accurate artillery calculator that automatically adjusted for wind and let you hit with perfect accuracy every time. Imagine then that Collies started complaining about that on reddit instead of actually trying to win the game. Propaganda doesn't need to be accurate to serve it's purpose.
The sheer degree of factionalism and pettiness in this.
Yeah, I don't like it either. I don't mean to be toxic, but it does feel like the factions do a lot of unnecessary Psy Ops instead of just... playing the game. That said, from what I've heard, the dev of the program is happy to take the program down if the gamedevs ask them to. I just really don't think it's worth the oxygen everyone, Collie or Warden, give it.
Wait quadiche needs a nerf? I wouldn’t say that after all of the quads I killed last war 🤣
Yeah, a lot of Collie tankers are saying it's OP / should be nerfed. I think a well-organized regiment operation or even just a well-organized casual force can clap them pretty easily, but some folks are worried about it getting yeeted outright like the battle tanks.
Then it should be no problem to shut it down
Iirc the devs already approved this though
What I was told amounted to a non-response from devs, which is **not** approval. I hope I don't need to justify that.
They have, because its not actually cheating. I don't use it myself(I am a Frontline grunt or logi driver) but everything about it is literally just using already available in game faction information. Without WTs and the like to spot and QRFs to respond, it literally does nothing. It's the equivalent of a Radar man scanning radar screens for intel, and it also literally takes an actual player character ter, with the map open to do the work.
I have to wonder who's alt Reddit account this is, and how common alting is for them...
Don’t act like the collies don’t alt just as much. Alting is a problem on both sides and both condemn it. Don’t act high and mighty
I am not. But why not use your real reddit account if you feel so strongly about something? The Spud guys are.
This is my in game tag, all I’m saying it that alting is a problem on both sides and I’m sick of either side saying that the other is the one alting more
We both know I am referring to OP, which was also who the comment you replied to was addressed too.
And the collies and wardens are both rife with alting.
It's actually astounding the mental olympics here trying to justify using this
day one of wondering when you will grow up
from what I understand no one really uses it because it's mostly false positives or just nonthreats
I know someone who used it to run a partisan down sans radio, so. False positive just means they need to make it better, & it's under active development.