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AlexanderKotevski

People are all up in arms about Skynet being a problem but nobody is talking about the [foxholetechstats](http://www.foxholetechstats.com) website that is straight up leaking tech opsec every war?


[deleted]

Didn't know that was a thing, you should try raising awareness like OP is doing. I agree that site is bad and devs should denounce it / state that anyone supporting it is in violation of TOS.


IllegalBastard

Are they like leaking what people are currently researching? I just read on their site and I'm confused as to what exactly they are leaking.


TheMan_in_Gauze

yes, they update it frequently to show up-to-date current tech progress of the other team.


KeyedFeline

Devs are aware unfortunately they cant police the entire internet. Idk what people want to happen by spamming the reddit lol


gruender_stays_foxy

they want to make sure everyone knows its not their fault if a war is lost.


HowTheGoodNamesTaken

They straight up say they disagree with the devs and don't like the tech system so I don't think anything the devs do could change that


[deleted]

How far down the 'dev man bad' rabbit hole do you have to go that you start making self righteous websites to fight a dev change you disagree with? That website is more sad than disruptive.


HowTheGoodNamesTaken

I understand that devman has made some bad choices, but we have to remember it started as *their game* and even though now it's all of our game and what we want should somewhat affect how the game will exist, devmans are humans too and foxhole will never be a perfect game


nonyabr0

Aye yo wtf? How long has this been a thing?


AlexanderKotevski

I've known about it since last war and know a lot of people who have unfortunately been using it


ElectronWrangler

Image was wrong, has been fixed. ~~Wait, deadass the collies get LT + Harvester a whole tier earlier? Devs that's fucked up...~~


submit_to_pewdiepie

No, what


ElectronWrangler

Ah they updated the image. They were missing the halftracks tier from the collie tree when I first saw it. Probably just stitched it together wrong from multiple screenshots.


Bronkko

Devs are all really colonials.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

The devs don't need to police. It is well within their right to give their opinion on external tools/sites/leaks. While the community argues a lot on Reddit, I think we all generally play by the rules (regardless of how enforceable such a rule is). If devs came along and said foo is evil, or we don't agree with bar, I'm not convinced that the community would not do the right thing.


SandManic42

It clearly doesn't specify what you say it does. It just says "external tools that give an unfair advantage", and that clearly means external tools that give an unfair advantage. You're making assumptions and guesses about any definition beyond that.


Bronkko

Foxholestats let's me know when my region loses a city. Then I know to hop on game. Dev plz delete.


yeet_the_cyoa

Shifting goalposts? Whataboutism? I'm pretty mad about that too, yea. I cannot, however, champion all causes all the time all at once.


gruender_stays_foxy

seams more like you specificly picked a target that doesnt impact the game instead of something that does, one wonders why.


SupermrCart97

I think you should start working on your own skynet I doubt they will police this issue and Reddit ain’t gonna help, can’t beat em join em


Itay1708

You just made the problem 1000x worse by posting this here, for the people who didnt know it existed. Thanks for nothing.


scrimzor

that is a good thing. devs need to get there fingers off the scales oh noes one side losing snowstorm though most frontlines and tech boosted for one faction wile catchup disabled for other. why even play if the devs are going to interfere so much


vroop2

why tf are you linking it, delete that shit man


Kastow

So I absolutely agree that automating user activity is harmful. A few years ago, when I was a game mod, we caught this guy that had a script that would hammer components, walk to a box and put them in it. Of course, this behavior takes a bit of attention to notice - it could just be a guy chilling and mindlessly playing the game, so the best way to know for sure was to build a wall in front of him and see if he continues to run into it. We also caught a guy who was hammering fuel a while, when there were fuel nodes, by building three walls around him - he continued to turn, hammer several times, and drop the fuel under himself. Either way, that I think is just a strictly defined sequence of actions that doesn't require reading info. So I think complex autohotkey sequences could be called problematic, and they could be potentially punished if there is a mod catching them in action. Even if we're talking about an AI with input, there isn't a lot of danger with automation. The most interesting thing I've seen was the CAF python script that makes screenshots of the screen, reads the binoculars data - azimuth and distance, then calculates parameters for artillery pieces, and posts them in the chat. That could probably fit your criteria of automation a bit, but if we try to make anything more complex than an arty calculator that gets data purely from image processing, it begins to require a thesis-level research, since Foxhole is incredibly complex in terms of gameplay. Talking about the access to the game memory, Foxhole has an anticheat that can detect that and issue bans. I'm not sure how efficient it is at detecting tampering with the game client, since I'm sure most of us have seen speedhackers, but I also know for a fact that some people were banned for using tools, that read memory. And these tools would not really be something that you could convince your team to use, since at any moment the devs could get their hands on the binaries of the tool and ask Valve to add it to the list of illegal ones. So, while I'm not saying these things are impossible, their users would probably be exiled by the both parts of the community. Hence, I think there's not a lot of possibility for the "robots take over the world" kind of automation, and the dev time to making anything feasible of that time would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for the simplest of tasks like infantry combat - way too much for a game of this size. External tools in general, as I remember correctly, have been approved by the devs, and they can provide quality of life where the game itself can be cumbersome. For example, devs never gave us anything to aim storm cannons, so I had to build a website for it on my own. And then the devs just relied on everyone using my website. Does it provide an advantage? Absolutely. Should it and all similar tools be removed? No, because they make the game more playable. And the slippery slope with the tool you described cannot really lead to any meaningful impact to the game balance, just because it would take immense effort to make them correctly.


passionpaindemonslay

TALK TO THEM KASTOW🗣


Angry_chicken99

Cool. So what do you think, would you like Wardens to develop their own? I understand not wanting to give away something you made. Personally I'm 'open source' and 'by donation' all day every day but you do you.


yeet_the_cyoa

Let's see, what are you doing with your rhetoric here? ​ >A few years ago, when I was a game mod, we caught this guy that had a script that would hammer components, walk to a box and put them in it. Of course, this behavior takes a bit of attention to notice 1) You establish your credentials by citing your previous and **defunct** position of authority and your correction of immoral actions. > We also caught a guy who was hammering fuel a while, when there were fuel nodes, by building three walls around him - he continued to turn, hammer several times, and drop the fuel under himself 2) Now you display game knowledge, necessary to validate your opinions on gameplay > So I think complex autohotkey sequences could be called problematic, 3) You talked about a lot of other tools, but you didn't talk about your attachment to this specific one. You cite complex keystroke macros, isn't this exactly that? Why is it a problem when you're scrooping but not looking at the map? > Even if we're talking about an AI with input, there isn't a lot of danger with automation. The most interesting thing I've seen was the CAF python script that makes screenshots of the screen, 4) By broadly discussing AI, itself a vast and amorphous subject, you just kind of . . . slip around my arguments and tailor yours without actually *engaging.* >Hence, I think there's not a lot of possibility for the "robots take over the world" kind of automation, and the dev time to making anything feasible 5) Now, it's just coming to a conclusion about the opposition's arguments, e.g. advances of automation, arms race, etc., without actually rebutting anything I put forward. > the slippery slope with the tool you described cannot really lead to any meaningful impact to the game balance, just because it would take immense effort to make them correctly 6) Now, despite all of that, you try to dismiss the entire post as "slippery slope". An attempt to make the whole discussion an over reaction and emotional rather than the logical argument it is. In conclusion? you said a lot, talked about a bunch of things, but didn't actually address or rebut the actual logical arguments at play here. So lets talk. Why is it that a complex macro like the one you describe, or automating a very simple scrooping, are things you see as problematic, but doing the same for the map scanning process isn't? These are both menial and repetitive tasks that lend themselves to automation. Why **should one be allowed** and the other not?


eTheBlack

So you are saying you want all these tools removed? Including clicklock and autorun? Because thats what Kastow disagree, but seems you want it all banned


Smug_Rubric

Bro, the guy gave you a politely-worded and thought-out reply but you’re gonna respond by calling it rhetoric 💀


Darkfowl

This has to be a troll


patrickmen11

I don't think Kastow's comment was meant as "rhetoric," but regardless, I feel the need to reply because of a few things that this clued me into about "Skynet" (I'll use the name because it's colloquial at this point) that I don't think you fully understand, and some things about the game's history that you don't understand either. For the first two, there isn't much to say. Yeah, you're boiling down what he said. It's probably worth mentioning that the moderator position Kastow used to hold was dissolved by Clapfoot as a concept, which is why it's now "Defunct." For the third one, the answer is no. This program does not broadcast any inputs within the game, unlike the macros that Kastow talks about. There is no inputs being put into the game it's self, there is no AI-driven value-added gameplay being added by the "Skynet" program into the actual Foxhole game world. I think this is probably a critical point of misunderstanding about how Skynet works, it is very literally a scanner. It can not, and does not, actually influence the game world in a tactile manner. The reason many people may compare Skynet to, say, FoxholeStats or the Bunker Tool, is because of three key similarities: 1. Skynet is an external tool, hosted on a browser that is inherently unable to be moderated by Siege Camp. 2. Skynet is an organizational tool, which can only help someone do something / gain information in the game in an easier, quicker manner than trying to find that same information within the game. 3. Skynet is a tool which does not interact (or interface) with the game directly. The bunker tool does not build the bunker, it can only help you lay one out and find it's health. Skynet, in a similar vain, is a tool that will point you to a Warden, but it cannot actually kill the warden for you, only someone responding in-game to kill that warden can kill the warden. This difference between a tool which will interface with the game, vs. a tool which does not interface with the game, is probably the most critical miscommunication and point of difference between those who support and are against the existence of Skynet. (Let me put my own definition so we don't argue semantics: When I mention a tool that "Interfaces," I mean any tool that will directly modify the in-game state and actions of a player or the surrounding player world.) Kastow's whole post outlines how any tool that does this direct interface with the game via input broadcasting is historically illegal (as per scrapbots and and memory scanning), but even in that aspect there is grey area (as per the in-game arty calculator). Meanwhile, Skynet fits under the definition of a tool that does \*not\* interface with the game. It scans the game, sure, but it cannot on it's own modify any player or action within the game world - It can influence and suggest a player to find "this" warden and point out a warden is "here," but it cannot actually go out and kill that warden on it's own. Skynet helps lead the horse to water, it cannot make the horse drink. Thus, in my eyes, there can only really be two sorts of responses: Should tools that do not interface with the game be allowed, or not? And with that answer, how do we moderate tools which do not have to interface with the game to be used? How do we, generally, draw the line on when a tool that does not interface with the game is "unfair" vs. a tool that can be accepted as "fair" (like FoxholeStats and Bunker)? ​ As a different issue, your entire post also has some serious implications for those programs which \*do\* interface with the game. Chiefly, game modifications. This will be effectively unrelated to what I outlined above, but as a member of the modding community for this game, this is an issue I am deeply concerned about. Mods, inherently, directly interface with the game by editing game files. Mods are also individualistic, giving changes to only the individual who has that mod installed. Therefore, where do we draw the line on what is a mod that can be seen as giving an "unfair advantage" vs. something that is allowed? Lets look at a few key examples: 1. [https://www.nexusmods.com/foxhole/mods/10](https://www.nexusmods.com/foxhole/mods/10) This mod overhauls vehicle skins to have different visuals, mostly for aesthetic purposes. Can this mod be "fair?" It changes how the vehicles look for you and you only. 2. [https://sthubert.itch.io/advanced-compass](https://sthubert.itch.io/advanced-compass) This mod gives you more information on your compass by having different azimuth readings on the compass it's self. Can this mod be "fair?" It potentially allows for a user without binoculars to give a rough azimuth reading. 3. [https://thewindowsuser92.itch.io/foxhole-vanilla-item-icons](https://thewindowsuser92.itch.io/foxhole-vanilla-item-icons) This mod gives you an advantage on reading item icons by splitting each item into a different color depending on item type. Can this mod be "fair?" It allows you to read information on a stockpile from the map or in the stockpile it's self much more rapidly by associating the item you are looking for with a color, hastening the time it takes for you to see if a stockpile has the item you need. 4. This mod changes how the map looks, giving a player information on different road tiers, higher contrasts between roads vs. terrain, terrain topography information, and even the location of the rapid border decay zones, all from the map. Can this mod be "fair?" It gives a player much more information by looking at a map compared to those who do not have the map installed. 5. This mod is hypothetical, but we know someone has privately made a version similar to this: A mod which changes the textures of landmines to be hot pink, increasing their contrast on road surfaces compared to their surroundings by making them "pop" out more. Can this mod be "fair?" My point in this whole exercise is to point out how making arguments on what can and can be "fair" and "unfair" in the sense of giving an "advantage" is something that can be purely subjective, case-by-case, and how any sort of blanket ruling that targets one aspect will, potentially, inadvertently affect other systems and modifications. Is Skynet "unfair?" Is the map mod "unfair?" How about the other mods? Does this mean we can concretely give an answer based off of what the words of the rule Siege Camp put out was? In conclusion, there kinda unfortunately is no answer, besides by Siege Camp. Congratulations though, this whole campaign against the tool will influence their decision, despite any sort of negative implications the ruling may have.


Aggressively_Warden

By your own reasoning multiboxing should in fact be fine as it does not modify any ingame values and yet Colonials campaigned heavily against it and multiboxing is currently a bannable offense.


patrickmen11

I am not sure if you misunderstood what I said or if you're being disingenuous to my argument. Multiboxing, following my definition of "interface," **directly** interfaces with the game by allowing you to broadcast multiple inputs through multiple accounts. As a third party program, it interacts directly with the game world and (several) player controls. Skynet is not comparable here. Nor does my reasoning suggest that Multiboxing should be allowed. ​ But that was just one reply, what about the rest of what I was talking about?


Gameguru08

This is absolutely schizo


Acceptable-Hair-5591

What is your action then?


ElectronWrangler

How would you feel about releasing EWS in order to improve quality of life for all players equally? There must be some bright minds on the Warden side who can help to work out some kinks in the false-alarm rate, and then both sides benefit. And certainly it would remove a lot of the mystery and suspicion which is fuelling this controversy about it.


AlexJFox

Kastow gave away the source code of foxholeglobal when he developed SigilHQ and whilst of course I can't speak for him, I have noticed a trend in this community of extreme ingratitude towards community developers, particularly from diehard Warden loyalists (see: Versace getting death threats, rustdev getting harassed for not making the bunker tool public immediately and pretty much all the ire directed at Kastow). I don't know why it needs to be said but here it is anyway. **People can develop things to give their preferred side an advantage** \- if they have the technical know-how to do so. The mature response would be to create your own solution to do the same thing, rather than brigading against said tool and trying to get it banned.


ElectronWrangler

Absolutely people can develop the tools and release them to whomever they choose, and if you were to develop a tool and someone was harassing you I would certainly be opposed to that. On the other side of the coin, if Kastow has developed EWS, let's not put words into their mouth. If it really is about quality of life then it seems like good sportsmanship to let everyone have access to it.


AlexJFox

Kastow has made it abundantly clear that he is not interested in making his tools available to both sides.


ElectronWrangler

In.. discord? Why are you speaking on his behalf? If he just doesn't want to discuss it on reddit because everyone here is toxic that's fine, but right now your comment is source: "dude just trust me". Kastow told *me* that Santa Claus is real. Releasing the tool is just one approach. I think doing so would demystify the whole thing, and perhaps make people more comfortable with the idea. If the argument against doing so is "the author has rights on the source code and is choosing not to", then let's just hear that from the author.


AlexJFox

Yes on Discord, several times. He doesn't like Reddit so I don't know if you'll get any more comments from him on the subject but regardless. He doesn't want to release it publicly for his own reasons and guess what? You. Can't. Make. Him. Do. Anything.


Consistent_Bass8244

You can develop things to give you and advantage yes, but not an unfair one, an example of a fair one would be auto clicker because it still needs to operate majority of process, you're not scooping more just avoiding the cumbersome task of holding click, Skynet on the other side goes beyond because it can give you 24/7 watch on a region and not only that but also gather all the Intel data of enemy activity and that what's unfair because it surpass what's humanly possible, and yes theoretically you can watch a region 24/7 but it requires a lot of work by multiple people, now I believe what most collies says the they barely use the tool but there just needs to be like 10 dudes to exploit it


AlexJFox

You need to stop applying your own interpretation to things and insisting they are correct. The developers know all about Skynet and they have not prohibited it's use in any way.


Consistent_Bass8244

>You need to stop applying your own interpretation to things and insisting they are correct. How? I just explained what Skynet does according to what collies have said, and claimed that to my opinion that's unfair because x >The developers know all about Skynet and they have not prohibited it's use in any way. This isn't about the devs, it's about community, when collies complain of unbalance and unfairness on some issues majority of wardens listen and help with that issue like for example multiboxers Collies claims that's not as useful of a tool as wardens believe, so If isn't as useful why insisting on keeping it so much Also I noticed a bit of a hostile attitude, dude I'm just trying to have a Convo about it and share some opinions chill out


Aggressively_Warden

Kastow gave away the source code for something that was made by neutral, Colonial, AND Warden players after taking it down. He ALSO blackmailed aclan into kicking one of their members over it. Versace death threats are likely a complete lie and HoC (the big group he was claiming sent him death threats) offered REPEATEDLY to ban any and members he could name with screenshot and despite this no screenshots were ever forthcoming and he even told the HoC officers seeking to punish their own members to 'stop harassing him'. Later on HoC and him apparently had a nice conversation after he left foxhole and it seems like he was done with foxhole and just wanted a way 'out' of the community. I don't now anything about this rustdev guy though so sorry I can't really participate in the conversation. I am VERY worried about skynet, Colonials defense of skynet, and the precedent it sets going forwards. I can speak as a well connected Warden when we first found out about skynet early on in its development we were interested and looked into making our own. After a number of exciting and disgusting experiments Wardens shelved it because we did not like the advantages it gave us. I ask that you consider for a moment what happens if you decide to let the genie out of the bottle? Do you want foxhole to turn into runescape where your skill at the game is purely bruteforce game knowledge and a script telling you where to move? What about eve where the number of programs you need to install to play on an average level can be equal to the size of the game? Or maybe WoW where you have so many overlays that you can barely see the screen? Take a moment and ask yourself if Wardens respond by releasing our own skynet what further tools will get made to 'give out prefered side an advantage'. I figure that both factions will keep escalating until a clan leader or 3 gets swatted at which point I could see the devs just start handing out mass bans or shut down foxhole entirely.


eTheBlack

You truly dont know shit, you have zero history about game.


Aggressively_Warden

What do I not know?How much of that is bullshit?If you could refute any of the following with facts rather than just dismiss me outright? 1. Foxholeglobal was made by multiple people from across both factions. 2. Kastow would not release foxhole global unless the WN banned one of its members. 3. HOC made every effort to learn the identies of and punish members who sent death threats. 4. Foxhole is a game thats burns out people and makes them not want to play anymore. 5. Skynet has existed for quite some time. 6. Wardens knew about skynet early on. 7. Neither faction will ever stop looking for an advantage in this game. 8. There are diehard loyalists on both factions who will do just about anything for their faction. 9. Those loyalists will continue to esclate the faction loyalist bullshit out of game conflict until it has real world consequences. Those are more or less all of the things I stated.What if any of them are false?


eTheBlack

You know nothing, Jon Snow


Aggressively_Warden

I clearly know a great deal more than you, But I guess just keep repeating that I know nothing while not actually refuting any of my claims. People will se this and start asking questions.


AlexJFox

Total bullshit


Aggressively_Warden

Colonial reddit QRF isn't real.


AlexJFox

Chat shit find out.


bluechurch

this slope is so slippery I can hit mach 2 with a well-oiled trash can lid


Bronkko

Claims of collie brute force. Unaware of game when there were 600 players and 82dk were 300 of them.


Aggressively_Warden

The line was 'bruteforce game knowledge'. The statement behind the line being that players would optimize their tools to the point where the only way to win was by having extensive knowledge of the game. Currently in Runescape when it comes to arena PvP rather than being about mechanical skill and knowledge its about knowing weird bugs and niche abilities alongside tools that tell a player where to move and what to attack with. Also the time period that you're talking about DK was managing around 60 players at maximum. They managed 60 players for a good 5-10 hours but it would be actually impossible to fit 300 players on the frontline in the old 3x3 map.


KrazyCiwii

To be fair with that arty Calculator, it really came down to one man in particular, and even with that in mind, it's not like he can't do the calculations himself, he really could given what he studied, it's just a more simpler time. I doubt Sir Beef will give it out to people too, probably doesn't want it getting caught up in this mess and so it just makes it easier for him. Communication with Arty in game can be frustrating depending on the location and situation, also this way just means people stop asking 5-10 times for the damn azimuth that was told just as many times. In other words, it's not exactly an external tool giving an unfair advantage, more so, a tool that calculates it for the actual team to see. I artied with Sir Beef multiple times, and yea the calculator, whilst it is pretty cool, didn't stop him from coming up with the same results just as fast. Was mostly just for the team.


AlexJFox

To be fair with that partisan detector, it really came down to one man in particular, and even with that in mind, it's not like he can't scan the map himself, he really could given what he studied, it's just a more simpler time. I doubt Kastow will give it out to people too, probably doesn't want it getting caught up in this mess and so it just makes it easier for him. Communication with QRF in game can be frustrating depending on the location and situation, also this way just means people stop asking 5-10 times for the damn coordinates that was told just as many times. In other words, it's not exactly an external tool giving an unfair advantage, more so, a tool that highlights it for the actual team to see. I QRFd with Kastow multiple times, and yea the Skynet, whilst it is pretty cool, didn't stop him from coming up with the same results just as fast. Was mostly just for the team.


KrazyCiwii

Always one idiot who sees a warden tag and sends a wall of text expecting salt. Pathetic that you literally copied my message to "make a point" in which I don't care for?


AlexJFox

If you can't see how your justification for the arty calculator can apply in exactly the same way to Skynet, that's on you, not me.


Quardener

This is fucking exhausting. Never seen a game community so balls to the wall intent on ruining a game just so they can make their victory number go up.


xXFirebladeXx321

Skynet developer asked the game developer for their opinion on such a program that detected blue dots on a map via a map streamer. After that only, skynet was made and released to be used. Devs replied that they have no stance on such a bot, but will keep an eye out, if anyone is found using hacks to make it run or something.(Maybe person hacking the game to find wardens without watchtowers or something, idk what they meant). If it was against TOS, devs would have said no in their reply and skynet would never have been made, but developers didn't have a stance on it at that time, and agreed that skynet could be made. I would like to hear their opinion about the bot now, as it literally is a map streamer streaming to a bot, that just detects blue pixels and fills up 1 of the SIGIL channels with repeated images+Location name of 1 partisan of 3-4 pixels, every 5 seconds as the radio updates the intel.


Aedeus

>Devs replied that they have no stance on such a bot, but will keep an eye out, if anyone is found using hacks to make it run or something. That's just it though, when they do have a stance it'll likely be sweeping enough to take down whatever Warden response prompted them to, as well as Skynet. Leaving a problem unaddressed like this opens the door for players to push, and likely exceed, the boundaries of the TOS and in the process are going to do a lot of damage to a game that really can't afford a catastrophic falling out of it's player base.


xXFirebladeXx321

I would like to see a warden version of skynet, that detects green collie pixels on a map. Still, I would like a proper developer response to such a bot, as it isn't used by a lot of people, only 1-2 use it and 99% of the people have muted it/ignore it, as we already have people spamming intel chat ingame about partisan locations. Skynet is good to have though, gives you a general idea of which collie backline hex a warden partisan group is present/last detected, but there are already ingame map post spams saying "PARTISAN HERE!" in multiple areas in the backline, that does the same thing. But then you have to spawn in yourself and find them off the radar yourself, unless they are dumdums and sit on WT range for more than 30-40 seconds at a time, then thats just easy QRF.


kieran3223

Wardens have one thats the funny thing , you dont see any posts from the wardens complaining about that


Consistent_Bass8244

Yeah but devs are humans and can be wrong and that's okay, last time I checked they allowed multiboxing and despite a lot of people claiming it was unfair, it was ultimately up the community to stop this


xXFirebladeXx321

They don't allow multiboxing, rules were changed last patch.


Epikt2

They made such statements before the whole multiboxing debacle. They have updated their terms of service since then.


NikitaGibKappa

No that statement came after Kastow (the coder) opened a ticket after the code of conduct was changed explicitly asking for "Skynet" (Its actually called EWS)


yeet_the_cyoa

Yeaaa, taking their response as a 'yes' or a 'greenlight' at all is tenuous, quite honestly. Regardless, as the rules stand *at the moment*, it's a clear **external tool** that gives an **unfair advantage**. Even if it was fully ok'd in the past, which it wasn't, it would need a stated exemption to not violate them *now*. I too would like to hear their opinion as well-that's the point of these posts after all. But the state of the bot doesn't truly matter, as others have elaborated on, so much as the 'pandora's box' it represents.


RandomMangaFan

If you ask devs if something is breaks the rules or not and they just reply "we don't have a stance on this" then it's a pretty clear indication that it's not against the rules. By definition, if the answer is that they don't have an opinion on whether it's rule breaking or not, then it has to be fine, or otherwise they would say it's rule breaking. They might decide later that it's not, sure, but only from then on, since they would have allowed the behaviour until then.


xXFirebladeXx321

Well, Discord is also an external tool that gives unfair advantage, RDM guys use discord to stream their gameplay while tanking. Almost every veteran clan does it too. So basically Gunner gets better vision and can see further, while the driver vision sucks, so Gunner streams his vision and driver uses that to drive. Hence, discord is providing an unfair external vision advantage, but literally everyone uses it. Hence the ingame random tank drivers have less vision than a veteran tank driver who is using the gunner's stream to drive. Another external application, is autoclickers, massive advantage in digging/building while being AFK. So basically you are a build bot. Still, not against the TOS. I think you didn't understand the developers when they stated External tools giving unfair advantages, they specifically wrote "Applies to Input Broadcasting tools", after that sentence, which meant the multiboxing tools were now banned that were used to control 4-5 accounts at same time with just 1 pair of mouse and keyboard, thats 1 guy controlling 4-5 guys at same time. Thats literal botting and that was against the TOS as stated. Now I wouldn't be against wardens making such a detector bot, its literally a blue pixel detector on a stream which then puts that image+location into a discord channel, wouldn't be that hard to make, and even if it detects a partisan, the AFK guy won't be QRFing that partisan anyways, 1 real individual would have to spawn in and run after the partisan to QRF him.


Bronkko

I remember when all the wardens were using the resolution glitch for tanking. I was fighting tanks for a year while they could see much much further than I. Then some dummy warden streamed the game using the glitch and devs shut it down. I never once got to use it.


yeet_the_cyoa

I *really* don't agree that Discord belongs in the same class as "external tool" as multibox or skynet, but I 'm honestly at a loss for how to argue that. Accepting that premise tho: Is tanker vision really comparable? You multiply at most one persons effectivity, 4 if you count the whole crew. There is no inherent escalation, as far as I see it. No ever increasing automation reducing player involvement. Everyone already inherently has access to it, so long as they pay the "activation cost" of cooperating with people ahead of time. Again, multiplying **one** persons ability. Escalation factor? I suppose you could write some insane AHK scripts, but kinda doubt how effective and spreadable that would be. I did know. The phrasing, however, is specific to expand the ruling to encompass a specific type of multi-boxing, that had previously been allowed under TOS. While commendable, it's never been a question of permission or ability. It's a "blue dot detector" now. How long until people start iterating on the heatmap? it's an unprecedented data collector. the automation of that, and the longer term consequences for the 3, 4, 5th projects down the road that build on this? They will get more and more unfair advantages, tracking along just like EVE's escalation went. IMO, it needs to be stamped out now just like alting was. Strong stance, before it starts escalating out of control.


HorrifiedPilot

Based on the argument and definition of “external tool giving an unfair advantage”, discord allowing people to coordinate does give an advantage over those not on discord. Also so many people are staring at the map at one time and the second a partisan is spotted, someone makes a map post. I genuinely don’t care about this bot nor it’s fate, I’m just tired of salty players complaining over something benign when there’s more glaring issues in the game. People who think that this bot can actually make a difference in a war clearly haven’t played this game enough to understand that the bot is a novelty.


Irenia3820

True. It's just define badly. Regardless, no matter what excuses collies use. This shit just plain and simple does not belong in foxhole. Just get rid of it. People should be looking at the map and spotting partisans not have fucking bots do it for them, that shit is ridiculous and needs to be banned.


HorrifiedPilot

You literally missed my point


DaRealML

Youre taking a blue dot detector wayyyy too seriously. Calm down


Fungnificent

Deep breaths bub, it'll all be ok.


Col-Quaritch

Most of you are missing the crucial point that Discord whatever it may be is available for free to any user looking to employ it for communication. Skynet on the other hand...


Irenia3820

So is virtual machine. So according to your rules we can have 10 virtual machines running and farming 10 different scrap fields and its ok because SKynet is ok too right? Ok omw to run 10 virtual machines. ​ No Input broadcasting so it follows the rules :)


Darkfowl

Literally this is fine if you aren’t input broadcasting, Ive heard of many logi people with multiple accounts in order to have multiple refinery and factory queues


COG_Ulune

I am sorry if I am being dumb but my current understand is this "skynet" just looks for a certain colour dot on the screen while looking at the foxhole in-game map. So does that mean this program isn't interacting with foxhole apart from moving the map? Pinging a discord wouldnt involve the foxhole program? Does a program detecting one colour from another have to interact with foxhole I guess what I am asking is can the developers tell if this kind of program is being used? If not then calling for it to be banned or accounts using it to be sanctioned seems pointless? It still relies on player activity to build the radar coverage as far as has been written here so it doesnt appear to be hacking the game to gain knowledge that a player looking at the map wouldn't already have? To be clear I'm not saying that some warden is out there using a similar program but the above quote does state unfair advantage, which is not the same as saying just "advantage". The devs have introduced some ambiguity there.


the13yearoldmanchild

It doesn’t move the map btw


Rich-Ad-5866

I use foxhole stats to see if wardens are having a backline party in the tech center via deaths per hour, giving me knowledge about how likely they are to be looking at their map. therefore I am in violation of the code of conduct.


Irenia3820

No because it uses information from API only no game information at all.


yeet_the_cyoa

As foxholestats utilizes information taken from the API, it's a different conversation. Try again.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Irenia3820

The screen is not part of the API call therefore it shouldnt be allowed. ​ Its like you asking if its ok to scrape some third party website and steal their data that they didnt put in their public API. How is the same lol? You can get sued in real life if you do this. Obviously in context of the game its different. But API public calls and just taking data from the game directly is not fucking the same.


Chancellor87

If skynet really made a difference in the outcomes of wars wouldn't the victory count show that?


yeet_the_cyoa

The primary thrust of my post is about the affect of a 3rd party program arms race's affect on the longer term health of the game? Not Skynet having an affect *right now?*


JawsomeBro

It's a made up problem. Skynet isnt an issue, is probably used by well less than 1% of the colonials and has almost no bearing on the game outcome. I've yet to hear of any possible game breaking tool that doesn't actually access the game itself being developed by either side. It's a very loose hypothetical made up as a justification for people to get upset. I'd take it more seriously if I felt like it was a genuine problem and not just wardens looking for something to complain about.


Nice-Habit-8545

Ya I played a lot in the last war and the only time I heard about skynet was on the reddit after the war


Luchiola_

Well it seems you have not yet fight the omniscient anti partisan guy chasing you without radio


RandomMangaFan

Either the partisan was using a radio, or the partisan was looking at a zoomed in image which was being pointed out by skynet which is just someone streaming their map view. With a radio. Either way, you'd be spotted because you were visible on radio. And the QRF with a radio (which is a fairly common item) would likely have a much easier time.


JawsomeBro

Lol that's not even how it works.


ev0lv

"Skynet" is literally just a single picture of the in-game map whenever a blue dot shows up, that's literally it. It doesn't make the actual act of chasing down partisans in-game any easier, it's just an alert of their presence when they walk into Watchtowers.


DaRealML

>3rd party program arms race's affect Just listen to yourself


gruender_stays_foxy

what i dont get is why complain about the worst of all tools and not those that are used and do work well? skynet is a hobby for a very select group. there are other tools like arty calcs and building tools that are widespread und impact those using them way more.


Darkstalker115

Third party arms race is already going for least last 4 years Factions fight both in games and tools which allows them to better understand game. There was Arty calculator stage, bunker designers, and even that before that we fought on who will have better excel spreadsheets. In my opinion wardens started loosing tech race and then suddenly started to " no you cant use it" or " share it or delete it" first with bunker calculators now with this.


Jasonjr698

Skynet, in my opinion, isn’t much different than things such as auto clicker. Autoclicker gives someone the option to more or less be afk at a scrap field with very little interaction. This could be considered an unfair advantage compared to someone who has to sit there, staring at the screen the entire time and manually scrapping. Skynet, requires people to have their map open and stream it to the bot which then pings people who like pings. The only difference with Skynet, is that it pings people to inform them of warden movement. But it is quite similar to autoclicker all the same. One allows you to “unfairly” auto mine with little to no input. The other allows you to spot enemies with the help of a few people who can stream their map. Even if you disagree with my point, you should still be able to agree that they are similar in spirit at least. They’re for two completely different things, but provide the same type of advantage to those who use it.


Nice-Habit-8545

Ya I dont know why Wardens are overacting about it. They seem to think every colonial and there mother used it but, in reality I am pretty sure most colonials did not even know about it and if they did probably did not use it. The first time I heard about skynet was after the war from Wardens on reddit


TheRedVipre

>I dont know why Wardens are overacting about it. Same reason as always, when they lose something must be to blame and it's never the glorious Warden empire. That's why it suddenly became an issue out of the blue last war despite having been around for quite some time now.


Nice-Habit-8545

Ya the Wardens seem to have known about it before most colonials. I did not know it had been around for a while I thought it was a new thing


JMoc1

To be honest I’ve played this game since the 60’s and this is my first time hearing about it.


Nice-Habit-8545

I thought it was a new thing I had been playing for a while as well and just heard of it so I thought it was new


Angry_chicken99

> Ya I dont know why Wardens are overacting about it. Because they don't have access to it. Duh. The loudest ones will probably never use it themselves, but I imagine there's a good portion of Warden backliners that would like to use it or at least try it.


DaRealML

Skynet only tells you where an enemy is according to information gathered using "legal" (cant think of another word) methods. A player/s still have to go deal with it. An autoclicker only left clicks for you automatically. Are they similair in automating a game function to an extent? Yes. Is it a serious issue which requires daily reddit posts? No.


Jasonjr698

Eeeexactly.


Watchekuh

The difference is virtually every computer now days comes with click-lock right off the bat and the ripple effect of it is much more individual, one person with an auto clicker or windows click-lock active has nowhere near the power of one person using skynet who then relays that information to hundreds.


Jasonjr698

Of course it’s nowhere near the amount of power. Scrapping and giving the two or three people who use Skynet intel are two different things. But again, it is hardly much of an advantage. Here’s another thing to consider: Skynet—has the POSSIBILITY to become something very strong and overwhelming as a tool. But as it is now, it’s is quite literally a bot that relies on PLAYERS to stream their maps. All the bot really does is the pinging. Some people legitimately dedicate almost all their time to anti-partisan and will inform those who are actually on the game about them or deal with them themselves. The bot does half of what one person is already capable of. And it’s dependent on players to work already as is. As it currently stands, I don’t see it as a problem. And you can bet your ass that if wardens had their own, I wouldn’t say a word about it. I play colonial but there’s no way in hell I care enough about loyalism to defend a tool just because it’s for my team. I do not think Skynet is an issue because it’s hardly utilized and even when it is, it hardly provides a really advantage to the users. Discord, which is widely accepted, provides far more of an advantage to its users than the bot does. There is a lot more you can do with discord to gain an advantage than Skynet. Obviously, two completely different things. But everyone trying to antagonize Skynet keeps saying that it provides an unfair advantage when all it realistically does is do half the job of people who already do more effective work than the bot as is. The bot only pings those who wish to be pinged and most of the time, they’re not even on the game. People who are actively in-game are more likely to deal with partisans faster. The bot does half of what they can do (which is simply informing on a third-party platform) and most who use it likely already do what the bot does for them or aren’t even online. The issue with Skynet is not black and white. It’s all a matter of opinion. Wardens feel that it’s unfair (for some, just because they don’t have it) because it pings those with the role as soon as a warden is spotted from any of the maps being streamed. Which sure, you can say “wow. That seems powerful.” But can someone explain to me how in 90% of instances, this bot will be utilized in a advantageous manner? The most the bot does, as I’ve been saying, is what players already currently do. It takes 5 seconds to scan for partisans. You glance around the map and see if anything looks oddly different or suspicious. Bam. Job done. You don’t need a bot for that, do you? But hey, the creator of the bot wanted to make it anyways because he wants to make life a bit easier for the few who like pings. And that’s okay. If the entirety of the colonial faction was utilizing this and it caused partisan life to become a grueling pain, sure. I can see an issue with it. But as it stands, it is hardly more than a redundant tool. Wardens are trying so damn hard to hold the moral high ground here just because someone in their community hasn’t made their own version yet. This really just seems like a “hey guys, look at this team. They’re so scummy and bad for doing this or that” scenario again. And while sometimes, the scenario is justified, this just seems pointless. I fucking bet you that if colonials were the only ones with an arty calculator, wardens would be complaining to the devs about an unfair advantage because it makes artillery far easier and gives an unfair advantage. But hey, it’s available for everyone! So it’s not a problem. I promise you with everything that the artillery calculator provides a much stronger advantage than Skynet does. Seriously.


Watchekuh

Yes there are players who dedicate their time to observing the map, that's the thing though, it's a player dedicating their time to it instead of being able to have a throwaway account broadcasting information 100% of the time, or still contributing to intel gain while at work/school/sleeping.


Jasonjr698

Okay. How about this then: How is Skynet, in regards to how advantageous it is, much different than an arty calculator. Yes, I know, two different things. But they’re external tools that provide an advantage. A calculator requires player input but so does Skynet. A calculator gives someone exact coordinates with player input and Skynet delivers accurate intel with player input, which then also requires players to react to the intelligence. And sure, you can just use a throwaway account for Skynet. But that doesn’t change how much of an advantage it really provides regardless. It informs those who use it about partisan activity, within intel coverage and the use of streamed maps via other accounts. The calculator provides accurate coordinates for the artillery gun. While Skynet does technically provide a larger advantage than the calculator, that’s not really the point. The point is that is supposedly provided an “unfair advantage.” And I compare it to the calculator because the calculator is also an external tool that could arguably be considered an unfair advantage. But it’s accepted because it’s not really an issue. Skynet was not an issue up until recently, and I can guarantee you that wardens already knew about it beforehand because I discussed about it with a few of them myself. Most just had to say that they found it weird or stupid. And a lot of them came up with “well if it’s so redundant, why even keep it?” Because the creator wants to. That’s it. And so far, it has not become an issue with the developers. I believe they don’t have a stance on it because while it has the potential to become an issue, it isn’t one yet. It’s only really an issue to those who want to complain because that’s what the Foxhole community does on Reddit. I know for certain that if it was available to everyone, it wouldn’t be considered so “unfair” because now everyone has it. So it’s “fair.” And I know people are going to try and counter argument that with the same echo chamber of “but it violates the terms of service !1!!!1!1!11!” but I’m quite doubtful about that. Skynet does not break how the game is player, as multi boxing does, for example. It just automates a very specific function that players already do. And it’s quite simply intelligence at that. It doesn’t even inform those on the game. It only informs those who wish to be pinged, which they can then choose to warn others, deal with it themselves, or simply do nothing about it. It isn’t much different than a player, who is already in-game, checking the map for 10 seconds. With the logic of everyone who is against Skynet, all artillery calculators should be banned as well and I will forever stand by that statement. The calculators do a specific job but easier. Just as Skynet does. Wow. Unfair.


Abyssal_Aether

If your really so consternated by this just go collie and use it for yourself for a single war You don't have to be a clanman or vet to use it or anything, just look at it for yourself before disregarding what literally anyone who has used it has told you


yeet_the_cyoa

:facepalm: My dude, I never argued about its effectiveness. *thats not the point.* The point is that this will take the community down an arms race of 3rd Party programs.


Abyssal_Aether

:facepalm: Your aware it’s been out for like 4 months now Real big arms race going on…


Bronkko

He lost last war. Has to blame something. Alts was last week.. this week skynet.


passionpaindemonslay

next week is the argenti i heard


yodagamingiam

I get that the collies always say that it’s not useful and I agree currently. but the software can be updated to make it more useful ya know so that’s why I’m against it.


yeet_the_cyoa

*Precisely.*


Rich-Ad-5866

And yet it's not. So we're complaining about something that doesn't exist?


Moss_on_a_Turtle

Oh... If it's not useful, then you wouldn't mind getting rid of it. Right?


RandomMangaFan

Most of us wouldn't mind, no. It wouldn't make any actual impact. But just because you can get rid of something without it making a difference, doesn't mean you should ban it. That just doesn't make any sense.


Belierand

Just because you yourself is incapable of understanding the application of a tool doesn't mean the tool is bad.


Quardener

We’re saying that the games TOS should be enforced before things get worse.


dangerdude132

Skynet still provides an advantage. Regardless if people see it as beneficial or not, it’s an external tool that in some way or another provides more knowledge than the other side cannot receive.


tacosan777

Here is a warden from the 86-92 war, current player on the collie side: About Skynet I can tell you that it is a piece of shit that fails several times and is not that effective to make QRF in the area that you play. It sends notices that it sees enemies in certain parts but it covers the entire map, you end up blocking it due to spam. Also, most of the time it does not send any information about the area in which you are. Proof of this were the more than 20 times during this war that they went to partisan me and they did not give a single warning or there is no record. I have everything covered in concrete OBS and I still don't send alerts. What difference exists then and have I observed? The QRF Collie is much more active than the Warden and they protect logistics routes. I put the case of Kirknell in Viper Pit for example; It can't be possible that they lost Kirknell to an HOI earlier in the war. None went to protect the logistics of the front, they only dedicated themselves to stamping themselves like goats in the face of enemy attacks. Howl County and Basin are the same case, did a Warden go to protect the logistics routes or did they make bases to protect cities or strategic points? neither of them, attacking the lodge was something extremely easy and the cities had no defenses or the few existing defenses were bb poorly built and poorly maintained. People, I played Warden for 6 wars. The only thing I can tell you is that they are failing for the silliest reasons like not protecting logistics or building decent defenses. Even if skynet did not exist, they would be losing due to lack of coordination


Col-Quaritch

Ah yes, ye-olde "everyone playing this color is just bad and that's why they keep losing" talking point. Always love to see some foxhole classics rearing their ugly head every now and again.


tacosan777

>Ah yes, ye-olde "everyone playing this color is just bad and that's why they keep losing" talking point. Always love to see some foxhole classics rearing their ugly head every now and again. Not all are bad, I have known during these wars people who fought well and did things well. This war of 92 was bad because of the bad position of the clans that, as in this war of 93, left the entire center unprotected. Likewise, not protecting logistics is a terrible mistake for the Wardens, I do a lot of logi and on the warden side most of the time I had to face the partisans alone. Being a collie I only had to write in the region chat that there was a partisan hac and two minutes later several vehicles arrived with rpg to give him QRF. About the constructions I have also seen innovation on the part of the collies, they are still facing the improved 40 cannon and some instead of crying began to innovate in the construction. They have released new bb designs and try to innovate to be able to face enemy attacks.


Zacker_

When your map is for the most part open ground with several partisan highways you get used to having to QRF all the time.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Hell, how many scroopers would stop scrooping if you banned autoclickers? I know I would stop, under OPs definition theyre "outside tools" but I use it to stop my carpel tunnel from acting up.


MrBubbelsss

day 3 of wardens posting copypasta about skynet from alt reddit acc. because they know they violate the subs rules. sigh.. kinda ironic


yeet_the_cyoa

Why am I not banned then? This is day 3. Day 1 got taken down, but Day 2 and now Day 3 are still here. Seems to me that maybe the devs don't think this is as open-and-shut as some collies like to claim.


Moss_on_a_Turtle

The only way to get the devs to ban Skynet is for Wardens to make their own.


yeet_the_cyoa

it is, most certainly, the fastest way to get Skynet banned tbh. But it's a sour taste in my mouth to do so, when I don't agree with Skynet in principle in the first place. so, for now, activism is my chosen route. Worked for logi! Here's to progress.


Nabo92

>ike it. The biggest issue is not that wardens do not have their own Skynet, but the precedent that would be set by the wardens choosing to make their own Hey, I'm considering buying the game for the logistics of it, but the reviews said it was once good but now it's grindy and tedious. You said devs fixed it, so i'm wondering if it's no longer that bad. If it's really fixed, then I'll prolly buy the game, seems like a nice little idea.


Moss_on_a_Turtle

Despite all the drama that goes on on reddit, the game is great. The community is truly great. Don't let the few salty people ruin it for you. I do logistics all the time and while there is always room for improvement, it is not nearly as bad as a few loud people make it out to be.


Belierand

People will salt about everything, it's still fun. Logistics has only improved over time, except for being more time consuming / reliant on cooperation due to increased map sizes. If your mindset is not like those of most "gamers" who needs instant gratification, then you should be fine and enjoy it.


ProbablyanEagleShark

Pretty much what the others have said. The subreddit does not paint an accurate picture, because the subreddit is where everyone goes to bitch.


Aedeus

The problem here is that whatever comes next is probably going to be a blatant violation of the TOS and pretty impactful. Additionally, it isn't likely to get published or widely promoted by Wardens and so will probably circulate within a select few Warden regi's without wider use, and will be incredibly hard for the devs to initially stamp out, leading to colonials escalating to more blatant abuse and so on and so forth. This is historically how it's always gone with MMO's when third party app arms races blow up.


RevolutionaryPin5616

I haven’t played this game in months and yet I have feeling this is pure cope. This thing is basically a dude discord streaming the map.


xXFirebladeXx321

Skynet can't sufficiently function on 1 person streaming map, it actually requires atleast 5 to cover the backlines, and around 7-8 in total to cover streamer blindspots/frontlines


SimpleManga

thats exactly what it is but automated


Col-Quaritch

Hence the issue, automation of an entire aspect of the game. Doesn't really matter how "good" the tool actually is, its the premise that it provides an unfair advantage through a mechanic not native to the game where the heavy lifting is done through a machine rather than a player.


cmt278__

Cope harder. Devs said they don’t care.


TicklingCurse

What about autoclickers, logi stuff calculators, artillery calculators? All of these are giving people "an unfair advantage" compared to vanilla players. Heck even the mod that I use which provides azimuths on the compass gives an unfair advantage. Skynet is not so different from these things and arguably less useful. The only difference is only collies have it at the moment so all the drama around it. edit: I posted the comment before I finish it mistakenly. Also about the game turning into an arms race of 3rd party programs I think it's just exaggerating things.


Zebezian

As a new player, it blows my mind that a tool like this has been permitted. To all the people saying "Well ackshuallyyyy Skynet isn't that good," you are missing a major point. Even if the current iteration of this program isn't ideal, allowing tools like this to persist is only going to lead to something more substantial. It's establishing an unhealthy precedent. Disclaimer: I'm on Wardens. But even if I joined the Collies, my opposition to this would still be the same. I don't *want* Wardens to have a tool like this, either.


flying-rainbow-panda

If it was against tos the devs would’ve removed it they were asked permission to make it and they said they had no stance


EcoKwin10

Collies say its useless, so why do they keep defending it instead of arguing that it should be shut down.


Gostang

Do not ask hard questions like this.


[deleted]

Because banning it would set a bad precedent, you would also have to ban arty calculators, logi calculators, autoclickers, etc.


Aedeus

My biggest point of contention here isn't Skynet, it's that would Colonials oppose Wardens using something similar, or a better iteration of it? I have a feeling that the answer here would be "No" but would quickly morph into "Yes" if/when Wardens began to win wars even without being able to discern it's impact. The developers might find themselves forced to get rid of Skynet later on anyways if Wardens trot out something that, like Skynet, stays within the TOS but does have a measurable impact on campaign success, whatever that might be. So it's probably just best that no external tools are allowed so that the issue never comes to a head.


AccelRock

>Colonials oppose Wardens using something similar, or a better iteration of it? I've seen no one share that stance. The only issue would be if Wardens use Skynet as justification to literally start hacking the game or cheating. I would welcome seeing my opponents rise to the challenege instead of complain all day.


A_Harmless_Fly

>it's probably just best that no external tools are allowed That "gain an unfair advantage" line is critical. If the third party tool is unbiased like [foxholestats.com](https://foxholestats.com) it's fine. It's a quality of life thing, with no unfair advantage gained.


foxholenoob

> So it's probably just best that no external tools are allowed so that the issue never comes to a head. You would have to ban several other tools as well. Skynet is not the only one that exists. Some other tools help with building, logistics and ranging artillery. I personally have a spreadsheet that helps me prep for huge logistics hauls. Some of these tools are accessible to both sides and some are not.


Aedeus

But those spreadsheet and calcs don't offer the same functionality that the devs would have to prohibit, nor are they as involved.


ev0lv

The devs don't want to prohibit this functionality either... They have explicitly no stance on the matter and that's why it still exists in the first place. You're assuming the devs are against this when the entire point of these posts is to try and *convince* the devs to be against this.


xXFirebladeXx321

Well, I would like wardens to make their own skynet that detects green pixels! Currently devs have no stance on such tools, even though I would like the devs to reply on such a bot being made by any side that detects blue/green pixels on a map.


Irenia3820

I will make a Warden app that spawns logi bots that farms logi fields. No input broadcasting involved. People will manually turn screen by screen and run autoclickers on virtual machines. We will have 10 logi bots per field scraping every field in seconds. Everything I just said is not against the terms of service according to your definition.


gruender_stays_foxy

when have you been in a scrap field farming for the last time? you dont seam to know how they work


[deleted]

Except bots are explicitly banned


xXFirebladeXx321

Feel free to do it, you are spending real money for alts, while skynet developer asks people to stream, not buys 10 alternate accounts and do 24/7 stream for the bot.


Irenia3820

Same thing in principle. If bots are operated by real players they are not bots. Anyway this whole thing is stupid and should be against the rules.


CommanderHavond

Day Question mark of Skynet being shown to Devs who didn’t care


kieran3223

So what about the warden version of skynet (it exists) you cool with that?


yeet_the_cyoa

No, and I've fought against it since the first time it got brought up and every time since. I stand by what I said in the OP.


lRoninlcolumbo

If it exists 👌😂


kieran3223

It does not if


Stormtrippin7022

Are we still on about this


L0rdB7sti

I agree with most of it .except the comparison with multiboxing and alting at the end. comparison of 2 different things Just makes you look stupid. An active type of cheating like alting and multiboxing is always worse than an passive. If you would use an Alt and Scan the enemy yes 100% but Skynet (by now) scans only friendly areas. Everything that violates the CoC should be punished. Side note: touch some grass. Edit: changed TOS to CoC Edit 2: after work my grammar is dogshit. funfact: i am a goblin.


anon_gsSL

ITT: collies rationalizing cheating.


[deleted]

Devs said they were fine with it. So its more like ITT: Wardens coping


Zero_Rogue

Skynet should be shut down. Not because of what it is, but rather what it is opening the door to. I do programming and I can say is skynet is nothing compared to what could be made with enough time and effort. With enough effort, you could build a program that would be as effective as viewing the map as the enemy. No partisan attack would make it more than a few feet into enemy territory before qrf shows up. Major ops would be countered before the first shot. I hope the devs understand the effect of allowing third party analysis programs.


[deleted]

Ok, go ahead and do it


Zero_Rogue

Why would I make something I don't want to be made?


RareSpoons

Matrix Moment....." They're in the walls "


KeyedFeline

As soon as the devs get the ability to police the entire internet the problem will go away. Not sure what you want to happen by spamming it on reddit


Acceptable-Hair-5591

Love when collies that didn't use Skynet claim it's useless, because there is a living example of t1000 on the warden side, Jwaltzz, just go ask him in WUH Also commend the author about his way of treating skynet, if the blue skynet appears right now, the creator of it will basically create enemies on the Warden side


Responsible_Ask_2713

I just read through the comments and feel I do understand the nature of the conversation. I don't want to give an opinion on where to draw the line, but unless the tool is made available to both sides I'd fully agree that it's an unfair advantage. If it is no advantage than surely the developer can share the code with a willing Warden representative to provide the wardens with a working version. Better yet if the developer chose to be neutral and develop the program for both sides with a guarantee of secure Information and impartiality then we can prove if it really is an advantage or not, and we can stop this discourse in its tracks by doing so. Additionally I understand that it is unfair of me to ask those who are opposed morally to go this direction. But if the Collies don't think it's an advantage then surely it should be no problem? The reason I move for a shared program is that if we developed one that let you know of intrusions into specific regions, or even individual watchtowers, then it'd be a flip of fairity the whole way around. A shared impartial program would be the only way as players to agree In fairness. From there we can change the minds of the developers if needed. We've literally been playing a game that shows the litteral hell spawned by the advancing of technology.


[deleted]

The Wardens already have a version of their own


gruender_stays_foxy

i dont think that it would be good to have the program shared. there is no way to make sure noone would use the intel of the other side. Anyone that wants to test the program can do so, switch to the greenteam and have a go.


Responsible_Ask_2713

Well we're already trusting people to simply not buy a second copy and do the same thing with a spare laptop.


gruender_stays_foxy

atm it is one person, someone that is well known and conected, dont think he would risk his standing.


Responsible_Ask_2713

I don't follow your meaning.


gruender_stays_foxy

atm the whole program is in the hands of one person, someone that probably will not risk beeing shat on and discarded by the Community. if it would be used for both teams that means it needs both teams inputs and ppl from both factions handle the data in the same program. i dont know if it ws made with this in mind. so it maybe would be easy to read the other factions data. anyhow i dont understand why ppl pretend to care about skynet when its clearly a strawman argument. there is a bunch of other, way more used 3rd party tools that are faction specific and noone cares. this warden witchhunt is getting booring at best.


[deleted]

The fact that EWS drives wardens THIS crazy… it’s working, it’s wooooorking!! Long live EWS and SALT! I look forward to laughing at you and your post tomorrow. Thank you, that is all.


Bronkko

Cant wait for Day 4 thread. #nvr4getoldjacktarborder


MrJonBrown

What is sky net? Im new


yeet_the_cyoa

It's a recent bot that uses OCR and machine learning to scan an afk user's stream of their map for blue dots- i.e. the enemy faction of the creator. It then can post pictures tracking the warden as the radar updates to discord channels. It's also told to give priority pings if a blue dot gets within a certain distance of storm cannon bases, to prevent raids.


the13yearoldmanchild

how are they supposed to punish people doing it? And isn’t there a warden version of skynet and if so why not make one?


yeet_the_cyoa

Why not? I'll repost why its bad from the OP: Skynet should not be allowed. It removes the need for players to actually pay attention to the map. People have many reasons to not like it. The biggest issue is not that wardens do not have their own Skynet, but the precedent that would be set by the wardens choosing to make their own (which we could do if we really wanted to). If the wardens decided to make their own, then it could potentially turn into a 3rd party program arms race, where each side tries to get a leg up on the other by making programs that progressively automate parts of the game to their max efficiency and eliminate human error. The effects of this can be clearly seen in games like EVE online, where the game is incredibly hostile to new players and you can only really play in the most efficient way unless you want to be heavily outclassed. It is not a fun experience. This game relies on having a consistent player base. Automating things with programs makes the game less fun for the other side which drives down players and disincentives playing on the side that has automated it since people are no longer required to do it. It is not healthy for the game. This has been excessively discussed among the leadership of many warden clans and most have decided that it would be a poor idea to follow in the footsteps of the colonials for these reasons. Reinforcing what I said above, all it takes to run Skynet is to have an account with the map screen open and just run a bot that takes screenshots and feed it directly into Skynet. That requires absolutely no player activity whatsoever, which ruins the spirit of the game and completely removes the element of surprise by seeing anything that a human would have missed. In summary, whoever made Skynet was so concerned about if they could, they never stopped to think if they should. As a side note, to all those people who say it’s ok because only a few people use it, does that mean that alting or multiboxing is ok since only a few people do that? No? Ok, I thought not.


Serryll

This post hits the nail right on the head. It’s a third party program that gives the advantage of not even having to be in game to monitor the map for enemies which is why I always laugh when I see colonials on here try to downplay it by claiming it’s “not that useful”.


Dogdiggy69

here here


Bobby--Bottleservice

Just give skynet to the wardens already so I can stop hearing about it


[deleted]

The Wardens already have their own version of skynet