They just degrade faster. Not ideal, but the world won't end.
Like remember when you first got your phone? How long the battery lasted when it was new? Because of the charging cycles and degredation, the battery doesn't perform the same as day one.
Same with LiPos. Every charging cycle reduces the reactivity of the chemicals inside the battery bit by bit. LiPos are just more sensitive to that and have less cycles overall, but can deliver more power at once.
I used to travel a bit when they were introduced. Lots of fun on airports, posters, announcements, compartments during flight etc. They had liion batteries it seems accompanied by bad name :)
Nah they typically use Li-NMC due to the higher energy density and cycle life. Similar mechanisn of degradation though. Being at full charge all the time does neither any good, but the effect is more noticeable in LiPos because we rely on their internal resistance being extremely low to get the performance we're after. This is less important for phones so the degradation only becomes noticeable when the storage capacity starts to drop significantly. In RC, we would probably not be using a LiPo anymore at this point because it would perform like arse
Best practice would be to storage charge them, fully charge them when you want to fly, don't fly them under 20% (roughly 3.5 volt) and immediately storage charge them again (or recharge if you plan to fly on the next day.
Does it work?
My new batteries get me 6-7 minutes slow cruising time. Some batteries from 2018, average use 2 flights per week, still get me 3-5 minutes by this practice (The voltage sag is much stronger than in the new ones). In theory, this batteries are "identical", at least spec wise and are from the same producer (tattu).
But not all batteries degenerate at the same speed. From my 16 batteries of 2018 I lost 2 to crashes and 4 by degeneration (they couldn't hold charge / instant sag / max flight time under 45 seconds)
Replaced them with 10 newer batteries, all tattu r line 3 gen. All failed within 1.5 years. Replaced this with 2 new normal tatuu batteries and 6 from tbs in 2021. There is no remarkable difference between the 2 year old and 5 year old batteries.
Get discharge dongles that take your battery down to a storage level. Then if you can't storage charge due to rain or something you just put the discharge dongle on and forget about it. Treat these with care because they do bring + near - on a little circuit board and if you bang it around and damage it that's a fire. Always store lipos in metal anyway.
if I remember correctly the battery gets degraded to the point where it loses 5% of its charging capacity after 30 days of being fully charged so... will they get damaged? yes, but how much? marginally, you probably won't notice it
Kind of comes down to application. If your build and flying style is balls to the wall big motors, high kv, aggressive props demanding every bit of current that battery can produce, the change in internal resistance will become noticeable fairly quickly. For more efficient builds/flying styles, you probably won't notice for some time.
If you do balls to the wall, it will die before you notice anything haha(crashing is worst than leaving charged a few days) , but mostly “racers” could tell , as you’ll losing consistency
4days? Nah but storing your batteries at 3.7v will save you lots of new batteries in the long run. I didnt take care of my first couple lipos. The diffrence is massive
Bardwell did an entire video testing the resistance of batteries that were left fully charged vs kept at storage capacity. Conclusion was yes it affects the batteries in the short term; a day or 3 fully charged is fine, after that we start to see resistance begin to rise and degrade the batteries quickly.
In my personal experience, repeatedly leaving batteries fully charged does result in noticeable performance drop. They sag faster and just don't have the punch or distance that they started with.
My advice is take care of them from the start and they'll last you wayyyy longer. Don't be lazy if that's the issue, just get into the habit of discharging to storage voltage as soon as you get home from a session.
Biggest hazard here is that fully charged batteries are much more violent than storage charged batteries when they fail. They are also much more likely to spontaneously fail when full.
Otherwise, from what I notice, batteries that have been sitting for more than a day or two will deplete significantly faster when you go to fly them. If I've been letting my batteries sit for a while I'll usually put them back on the charger for a top up before I go out. And it only takes a second.
Don't make it a habit, but they'll be fine.
Yea I try not to do that usually
100% agree
They just degrade faster. Not ideal, but the world won't end. Like remember when you first got your phone? How long the battery lasted when it was new? Because of the charging cycles and degredation, the battery doesn't perform the same as day one. Same with LiPos. Every charging cycle reduces the reactivity of the chemicals inside the battery bit by bit. LiPos are just more sensitive to that and have less cycles overall, but can deliver more power at once.
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I will guess that no mainstream phone uses lipo. Too unstable.
Except the Samsung Galaxy Note 7. Those things were fire bombs. (Yes I know they didn't actually use LiPos)
Li ions are just as flammable in my experience. Maybe not quite as explosive, but they will burn a house down no problem
I used to travel a bit when they were introduced. Lots of fun on airports, posters, announcements, compartments during flight etc. They had liion batteries it seems accompanied by bad name :)
r/confidentlyincorrect
You sure it is Lithium Polimer (LiPo) in cellphones and not Lithium Ion (Li-Ion)? I think you should double check that.
Nah they typically use Li-NMC due to the higher energy density and cycle life. Similar mechanisn of degradation though. Being at full charge all the time does neither any good, but the effect is more noticeable in LiPos because we rely on their internal resistance being extremely low to get the performance we're after. This is less important for phones so the degradation only becomes noticeable when the storage capacity starts to drop significantly. In RC, we would probably not be using a LiPo anymore at this point because it would perform like arse
More like 1% lol
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Leave them at storage charge, roughly 3.8V per cell. Most chargers have a storage mode that does just that.
Best practice would be to storage charge them, fully charge them when you want to fly, don't fly them under 20% (roughly 3.5 volt) and immediately storage charge them again (or recharge if you plan to fly on the next day. Does it work? My new batteries get me 6-7 minutes slow cruising time. Some batteries from 2018, average use 2 flights per week, still get me 3-5 minutes by this practice (The voltage sag is much stronger than in the new ones). In theory, this batteries are "identical", at least spec wise and are from the same producer (tattu). But not all batteries degenerate at the same speed. From my 16 batteries of 2018 I lost 2 to crashes and 4 by degeneration (they couldn't hold charge / instant sag / max flight time under 45 seconds) Replaced them with 10 newer batteries, all tattu r line 3 gen. All failed within 1.5 years. Replaced this with 2 new normal tatuu batteries and 6 from tbs in 2021. There is no remarkable difference between the 2 year old and 5 year old batteries.
Get discharge dongles that take your battery down to a storage level. Then if you can't storage charge due to rain or something you just put the discharge dongle on and forget about it. Treat these with care because they do bring + near - on a little circuit board and if you bang it around and damage it that's a fire. Always store lipos in metal anyway.
Yeah, as long as you store them properly inaide a safety bag
I do
if I remember correctly the battery gets degraded to the point where it loses 5% of its charging capacity after 30 days of being fully charged so... will they get damaged? yes, but how much? marginally, you probably won't notice it
Kind of comes down to application. If your build and flying style is balls to the wall big motors, high kv, aggressive props demanding every bit of current that battery can produce, the change in internal resistance will become noticeable fairly quickly. For more efficient builds/flying styles, you probably won't notice for some time.
thank you for the clarification!
If you do balls to the wall, it will die before you notice anything haha(crashing is worst than leaving charged a few days) , but mostly “racers” could tell , as you’ll losing consistency
My experience has been exactly thus. Being strapped to my quad is a death sentence for batteries
Same!!🤣🤣
Yeah but when I fly like that my batteries are doomed to die by blunt force trauma long before their performance degrades.
A warriors death, no less
4days? Nah but storing your batteries at 3.7v will save you lots of new batteries in the long run. I didnt take care of my first couple lipos. The diffrence is massive
Bardwell did an entire video testing the resistance of batteries that were left fully charged vs kept at storage capacity. Conclusion was yes it affects the batteries in the short term; a day or 3 fully charged is fine, after that we start to see resistance begin to rise and degrade the batteries quickly. In my personal experience, repeatedly leaving batteries fully charged does result in noticeable performance drop. They sag faster and just don't have the punch or distance that they started with. My advice is take care of them from the start and they'll last you wayyyy longer. Don't be lazy if that's the issue, just get into the habit of discharging to storage voltage as soon as you get home from a session.
Biggest hazard here is that fully charged batteries are much more violent than storage charged batteries when they fail. They are also much more likely to spontaneously fail when full. Otherwise, from what I notice, batteries that have been sitting for more than a day or two will deplete significantly faster when you go to fly them. If I've been letting my batteries sit for a while I'll usually put them back on the charger for a top up before I go out. And it only takes a second.
Yea
You see for me, batteries don’t last long enough for it to matter. Death by crash will be their fate!!!!
It’ll be fine