I get what you mean. A lot of random men I’ve interacted with have been pretty kind to me overall. Some will just straight up start a casual, wholesome conversation with me even though I’m a complete stranger.
I never experienced anything like from women before I transitioned.
hanging with the dudes is my favorite pass time, I feel more normal, and they have supported me just by treating me like one of the dudes, they have taught me so much about myself and why I didn't fit in the "sisterhood" groups well, guys handle emotions and how tight "brotherhood" groups are. ultimately both groups are great and yeah, the bonds are great and are the same in some ways and different in ways of how things are generally expressed.
Yes! I've been out for over a decade and on t for like 8 years, so I've been cis passing for a while and have met and hung out with lots of dudes in that time.
I totally agree that men have a "brotherhood" like women have the "sisterhood". However in my experience they can be pretty different, and sometimes I do miss the "sisterhood" but only for specific things. But I think it really depends on what kind of men and women you hang with too, more than anything.
I really like how in a group of (good) men you can just exist. They don't care how you're dressed, if you got some acne or extra pounds, etc. They'll hand you a beer and ask if you wanna play darts. And if you suck at it they'll give you a hard time playfully and then teach you how to do it better. If you went through a breakup recently they won't dive for details as much and will go straight to trying to cheer you up with games, jokes, etc. I have found that men do show their love for their friends as much as women do, they just show it rather than saying it outright most of the time. Women are definitely still better at verbal emotional support though if that's what you need, in my experience.
One thing that I really love about how men interact with each other is that older men will go out of their way to give advice, mentor you, etc. Or just talk about life and generally be very kind. Obviously there are still those dickhead older guys that everyone avoids, men and women alike, but I've noticed that the nice ones are really interested in making sure younger men know how to act right. I think that's really cool. There's so many older men who are like big brothers or unofficial uncle/father figures to me. I never had that with older women when I was still a girl in women's spaces. These are the dudes that won't judge you for being a guy and not knowing how to change a tire- they'll sit down and teach you how to do it.
I do miss "girls night"/sleepovers a little though. I did a lot of those when I was younger where we'd hang out, each junk food, paint either others nails, watch stupid teen drama movies, etc. men don't really do this as much. It's video games or sports stuff and waaaay less on the deep late night convos that I had with the girls. So sometimes I miss that. But, most of my friends regardless of gender are queer nowadays, so these types of things are happening again which is really nice. This is really only a gripe with straight man culture 😂
yes!!! i dont pass 100%, but i do well enough and ive noticed that when im walking in town some guys just do the head nod to me and other people, or when i go to the gas station someone will hold the door open for me and be like “whats up bud” and its so strange cause i also never experienced that when i lived as girl
This! I was walking home from the bus the other day and a dude offered me a ride just because he got off the bus and was driving home.
And I game every day with one of my guy friends. The gossip isn’t the same, it’s usually focused more on the game, but the friendship is.
Yeah I never actually felt included with girls, there was no sisterhood or mutual support or whatever. Not even passing kindness really. Idk if this is common with transmascs, but women were so fucking mean to me growing up? I don’t know if they sensed the trans vibes or the gay vibes or the autistic vibes or what but man there was *not* any solidarity there. Now that I pass as a guy, most dudes are treating me like I’m their best friend and being super nice to me, and women are often nicer to me too tbh. It’s lonely being read as a man sometimes, but I’d take it any day over being shunned and bullied because I couldn’t do Normal Human Girl well enough.
Same for me. I was incredibly awkward around girls because I felt like a traitor or a spy. But I've sometimes overheard them talking about how they did not believe I was really a "girl", how they suspected I must be a "hermaphrodite" and how they felt uncomfortable while being in the locker room with me because 'I clearly was secretly staring at them'. (Jokes on them, I was way too busy to hide my binder while I'm pretty certain I've overheard a discussion of a few girls debating whether I had chesticles or not. Who's staring at whom now.)
Yeah we totally have that, being "bros" and stuff and helping each other out. Have you ever seen a bunch of guys helping one of them moving out, carrying heavy boxes and machines and fixing everything in the flat? Or being around a fire and taking care of it, or doing sports or games together
I know I'm lucky to have such wonderful friends who are cis guys, but it's with them that I discovered what it's like to have amazing irl friendships. I never experienced "sisterhood" at all
I agree with you about the brotherhood. However I do miss the emotional support I received from queer women when I was identifying as a butch. I also miss the bonding my mom, grandmothers and I had. It was special Even though I never really felt like a woman. I haven’t had anything like that with male members of my family.
Emotional support is an issue that is being discussed in men’s groups all the time. Yes there is bonding but many men express a lack of emotional depth and space to really be vulnerable. Though this is shifting.
I think some of it is also an age thing for me. Guys 10ish years younger than me seem to do guy bonding differently from guys my age and older. I also think cultural identity plays a part in this.
I absolutely agree. I really feel it’s the way we’re raised. When I first got to high school, and joined my middle school friend’s mostly male group, I was worried that I wouldn’t get along well with the men because I was stuck in this very societal binary view of gender. But since I’ve known them, they’ve been incredibly friendly and emotionally in depth and not at all like the “what are emotions durr” stereotype that I was stuck in. They’re kind with the women in our group and have healthy friendships with them, they do in fact have solidarity with one another, they just show it through jokes and laughs, never really saying outwardly “I love you.” And when I look at the younger generation of men, they’re even more open to talking about emotions and they’re self aware of the issues in our world (homophobia, transphobia, racism) and know their stance on them. I really do think our world is going through a major shift for the genders and I’m very happy about this.
Yes, this is a great description. I’ve worked with youth for a little over a decade and see a significant shift.
My closest cisguy friend is in his mid 30s and has been doing “men’s work” professionally for about a year. The things he tells me they do and talk about in these groups are promising. Plus it gives older guys access to a new way of thinking and being as well.
I’ll never understand trans guys missing sisterhood. Sisterhood was nothing but bullying and belittling for me. Brotherhood is anything but that cruel judgement I received when I was forced to be a girl. Sisterhood made me feel ugly and alone and wrong because I couldn’t fit in. The support is so much better between me and other men. I’ll never look back
I feel this too: it always felt like 'sisterhood' was some kind of joke to me because around women, I always felt like I had to be on guard 24/7 lest I show some kind of weakness.
Same when i have a dude come to my town to deliver my pot. When i looked like a girl they used to just come and give me my shit saying thanks, okay bye
Now they’re so much more friendly like hey dude how you doing? Dabbing me up and saying thanks bro enjoy your thing have a nice night blablabla like HELL YEAHHH BRO One time i got to come into their car having a little ride listening to music that was cool lol
cis straights guys just act goofy and stupid and they’re really gay with their friends for some reason there’s a bond but it’s unspoken most the time and masked with joking around n stuff
This! i’m stealth and the friendship with my guys friends is awesome! they show they care by joking and picking fun lol and when im obviously down they check up on me. major difference is they just don’t dive in to feelings lol that’s about it
I definitely have felt a sense of belonging around other men. I gotta believe it’s similar to how some people feel about “sisterhood”. I always felt like I was missing something when it came to connecting with woman. It always felt like I was one slip away from them figuring out I don’t belong there.
Chatting with other guys at shows has been the best example. I had a guy playfully thank me for standing at the edge of the pit at a metal show, cause I looked like I was strong enough to keep the pit from knocking into his girlfriend.
Even something as simple as a “sup” nod from a random guy feels like community.
For me relationships as a guy have felt more rewarding, and I hate to be one of those but there’s way less drama. Some girls were low key pretty fucked towards me growing up bc I just always carried around whatever it was that said “I’m different”. I never got bullied because I was always pretty mean back but it didn’t stop them from calling me names or talking shit behind my back. Bros just have your back, and genuinely want to have a good time. Super laid back and chill. The girls I’m friends with now mostly wanna go out and party or tell me their friend group 🍵 lmao
I have better casual "ness/hood" with men than I ever have women or girls. And even then that kind of monolithic transcending gender based connection is just an illusion. There was never a monolithically feminine sex-allience. None of that is real. Girl power bullshit doesn't exist, and the moment you actually internalize that you'll very quickly understand how minority exclusive that narrative has always been-- and how misogynistic it still is.
I love both. I feel like I connect with women pretty well, dudes alright, and other trans or queer people massively. Everyone's so cool... But I love making friends lol.
Men being casually friendly and girls being linked in like "sisterhood" or "girlhood" feels very different to me. Men see other men and default to "person worth my time" and girls stick together bc they know things can be wack on your own as a girl. I really do miss that vibe u had with girls 😔
I get what you mean. A lot of random men I’ve interacted with have been pretty kind to me overall. Some will just straight up start a casual, wholesome conversation with me even though I’m a complete stranger. I never experienced anything like from women before I transitioned.
hanging with the dudes is my favorite pass time, I feel more normal, and they have supported me just by treating me like one of the dudes, they have taught me so much about myself and why I didn't fit in the "sisterhood" groups well, guys handle emotions and how tight "brotherhood" groups are. ultimately both groups are great and yeah, the bonds are great and are the same in some ways and different in ways of how things are generally expressed.
Since I transitioned my already nice coworker is now a great guy, even checks on me and helps me with my work sometimes
Yes! I've been out for over a decade and on t for like 8 years, so I've been cis passing for a while and have met and hung out with lots of dudes in that time. I totally agree that men have a "brotherhood" like women have the "sisterhood". However in my experience they can be pretty different, and sometimes I do miss the "sisterhood" but only for specific things. But I think it really depends on what kind of men and women you hang with too, more than anything. I really like how in a group of (good) men you can just exist. They don't care how you're dressed, if you got some acne or extra pounds, etc. They'll hand you a beer and ask if you wanna play darts. And if you suck at it they'll give you a hard time playfully and then teach you how to do it better. If you went through a breakup recently they won't dive for details as much and will go straight to trying to cheer you up with games, jokes, etc. I have found that men do show their love for their friends as much as women do, they just show it rather than saying it outright most of the time. Women are definitely still better at verbal emotional support though if that's what you need, in my experience. One thing that I really love about how men interact with each other is that older men will go out of their way to give advice, mentor you, etc. Or just talk about life and generally be very kind. Obviously there are still those dickhead older guys that everyone avoids, men and women alike, but I've noticed that the nice ones are really interested in making sure younger men know how to act right. I think that's really cool. There's so many older men who are like big brothers or unofficial uncle/father figures to me. I never had that with older women when I was still a girl in women's spaces. These are the dudes that won't judge you for being a guy and not knowing how to change a tire- they'll sit down and teach you how to do it. I do miss "girls night"/sleepovers a little though. I did a lot of those when I was younger where we'd hang out, each junk food, paint either others nails, watch stupid teen drama movies, etc. men don't really do this as much. It's video games or sports stuff and waaaay less on the deep late night convos that I had with the girls. So sometimes I miss that. But, most of my friends regardless of gender are queer nowadays, so these types of things are happening again which is really nice. This is really only a gripe with straight man culture 😂
yes!!! i dont pass 100%, but i do well enough and ive noticed that when im walking in town some guys just do the head nod to me and other people, or when i go to the gas station someone will hold the door open for me and be like “whats up bud” and its so strange cause i also never experienced that when i lived as girl
I’ve almost never had a group of girl friends. So hanging with boys or men is all I’ve done. I think social stereotypes have done dudes dirty.
This! I was walking home from the bus the other day and a dude offered me a ride just because he got off the bus and was driving home. And I game every day with one of my guy friends. The gossip isn’t the same, it’s usually focused more on the game, but the friendship is.
Yeah I never actually felt included with girls, there was no sisterhood or mutual support or whatever. Not even passing kindness really. Idk if this is common with transmascs, but women were so fucking mean to me growing up? I don’t know if they sensed the trans vibes or the gay vibes or the autistic vibes or what but man there was *not* any solidarity there. Now that I pass as a guy, most dudes are treating me like I’m their best friend and being super nice to me, and women are often nicer to me too tbh. It’s lonely being read as a man sometimes, but I’d take it any day over being shunned and bullied because I couldn’t do Normal Human Girl well enough.
Same for me. I was incredibly awkward around girls because I felt like a traitor or a spy. But I've sometimes overheard them talking about how they did not believe I was really a "girl", how they suspected I must be a "hermaphrodite" and how they felt uncomfortable while being in the locker room with me because 'I clearly was secretly staring at them'. (Jokes on them, I was way too busy to hide my binder while I'm pretty certain I've overheard a discussion of a few girls debating whether I had chesticles or not. Who's staring at whom now.)
Yeah we totally have that, being "bros" and stuff and helping each other out. Have you ever seen a bunch of guys helping one of them moving out, carrying heavy boxes and machines and fixing everything in the flat? Or being around a fire and taking care of it, or doing sports or games together I know I'm lucky to have such wonderful friends who are cis guys, but it's with them that I discovered what it's like to have amazing irl friendships. I never experienced "sisterhood" at all
I agree with you about the brotherhood. However I do miss the emotional support I received from queer women when I was identifying as a butch. I also miss the bonding my mom, grandmothers and I had. It was special Even though I never really felt like a woman. I haven’t had anything like that with male members of my family. Emotional support is an issue that is being discussed in men’s groups all the time. Yes there is bonding but many men express a lack of emotional depth and space to really be vulnerable. Though this is shifting. I think some of it is also an age thing for me. Guys 10ish years younger than me seem to do guy bonding differently from guys my age and older. I also think cultural identity plays a part in this.
I absolutely agree. I really feel it’s the way we’re raised. When I first got to high school, and joined my middle school friend’s mostly male group, I was worried that I wouldn’t get along well with the men because I was stuck in this very societal binary view of gender. But since I’ve known them, they’ve been incredibly friendly and emotionally in depth and not at all like the “what are emotions durr” stereotype that I was stuck in. They’re kind with the women in our group and have healthy friendships with them, they do in fact have solidarity with one another, they just show it through jokes and laughs, never really saying outwardly “I love you.” And when I look at the younger generation of men, they’re even more open to talking about emotions and they’re self aware of the issues in our world (homophobia, transphobia, racism) and know their stance on them. I really do think our world is going through a major shift for the genders and I’m very happy about this.
Yes, this is a great description. I’ve worked with youth for a little over a decade and see a significant shift. My closest cisguy friend is in his mid 30s and has been doing “men’s work” professionally for about a year. The things he tells me they do and talk about in these groups are promising. Plus it gives older guys access to a new way of thinking and being as well.
I’ll never understand trans guys missing sisterhood. Sisterhood was nothing but bullying and belittling for me. Brotherhood is anything but that cruel judgement I received when I was forced to be a girl. Sisterhood made me feel ugly and alone and wrong because I couldn’t fit in. The support is so much better between me and other men. I’ll never look back
I feel this too: it always felt like 'sisterhood' was some kind of joke to me because around women, I always felt like I had to be on guard 24/7 lest I show some kind of weakness.
Legit my thoughts.. Sororywhat?
Same when i have a dude come to my town to deliver my pot. When i looked like a girl they used to just come and give me my shit saying thanks, okay bye Now they’re so much more friendly like hey dude how you doing? Dabbing me up and saying thanks bro enjoy your thing have a nice night blablabla like HELL YEAHHH BRO One time i got to come into their car having a little ride listening to music that was cool lol
cis straights guys just act goofy and stupid and they’re really gay with their friends for some reason there’s a bond but it’s unspoken most the time and masked with joking around n stuff
This! i’m stealth and the friendship with my guys friends is awesome! they show they care by joking and picking fun lol and when im obviously down they check up on me. major difference is they just don’t dive in to feelings lol that’s about it
I definitely have felt a sense of belonging around other men. I gotta believe it’s similar to how some people feel about “sisterhood”. I always felt like I was missing something when it came to connecting with woman. It always felt like I was one slip away from them figuring out I don’t belong there. Chatting with other guys at shows has been the best example. I had a guy playfully thank me for standing at the edge of the pit at a metal show, cause I looked like I was strong enough to keep the pit from knocking into his girlfriend. Even something as simple as a “sup” nod from a random guy feels like community.
i know exactly what you mean, tge bros would literally fight for me if someone was being an ass
For me relationships as a guy have felt more rewarding, and I hate to be one of those but there’s way less drama. Some girls were low key pretty fucked towards me growing up bc I just always carried around whatever it was that said “I’m different”. I never got bullied because I was always pretty mean back but it didn’t stop them from calling me names or talking shit behind my back. Bros just have your back, and genuinely want to have a good time. Super laid back and chill. The girls I’m friends with now mostly wanna go out and party or tell me their friend group 🍵 lmao
I have better casual "ness/hood" with men than I ever have women or girls. And even then that kind of monolithic transcending gender based connection is just an illusion. There was never a monolithically feminine sex-allience. None of that is real. Girl power bullshit doesn't exist, and the moment you actually internalize that you'll very quickly understand how minority exclusive that narrative has always been-- and how misogynistic it still is.
I love both. I feel like I connect with women pretty well, dudes alright, and other trans or queer people massively. Everyone's so cool... But I love making friends lol.
Men being casually friendly and girls being linked in like "sisterhood" or "girlhood" feels very different to me. Men see other men and default to "person worth my time" and girls stick together bc they know things can be wack on your own as a girl. I really do miss that vibe u had with girls 😔