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SF resident, same. When I take the train down to Santa Clara, I have to make sure to cross the stroad at the light before turning left towards my destination, because there's an expressway entrance down there and I won't be able to cross.
The streets are busy enough around here that you have to look behind you before you step to the side or you might cut someone off. Even San Diego looks like a ghost town to me.
Europe is *really* densely populated, though. Funny how the carbrains act like living near other people is hell, and then go to Europe on vacation.
My mother literally does this, she often gets a hotel in the capital for a couple days as a small vacation.
My family drives an hour to the nearest city to go to a Chipotle or something and then they drive home.
They will drive 4 hours to come to a play where I live and then decline to stay an extra day and do stuff. 8 hours of driving to spend 4 hours up here for dinner and a play and then go right back. But when I convince them to stay for even one extra day we do tons of activities: paddleboating, museums, zoos, nature parks, restaurants, gardens, water parks, biking, wandering around window shopping, etc. Then they gush about how amazing where I live is while trying to move even further into the wilderness.
It's absolutely astounding. I cannot imagine spending that much time in a car to do so little on the other side.
If I learnt anything about americans whilst working with them, it seems you guys are completely chill with the concept of driving 12 hours for like a days visit.
I'm conflicted if something's an hour away.
Most of us drive 15-20 miles each way to commute to work. So a few hour drive is t that much of a stretch. I’m now the closest I have ever lived for work and it is 8 miles or a 16 minute commute.
I live about 15 minutes away from work give or take, and it’s funny because even though I do, biking is still not an option for me. Bike paths just end, the stretch of road I drive on is 35mph and it’s next to houses yet there are still no sidewalks connecting the houses, people on the 35mph road regularly go 45-50, and at one of the intersections connecting 2 big roads I’ve heard of at least 2 bikers being killed, one of them by a cop speeding through the intersection and the other by a drunk driver who sped through a red light, t boned a car, that spun out and pinned the biker to the light pole while he was waiting for the light to change.
> Europe is really densely populated,
This is a common talking point, but is really deceiving and wrong. Many parts of the US are also quite densely populated, eg. the east coast is actually much more densely than a lot of parts of Europe are, yet there you still don't have any good urbanisim in the slightest.
In Europe on the other hand you will find sidewalks even in the most remote towns. Not having sidewalks is not even really consider an option to have, it's simply the standard.
The difference is not the density, the difference is design planned around humans instead of cars. It's literally that simply explained.
Stop using this car-brain argument please. It's nonsensical
> Getting rid of on-street parking to make bike paths and sidewalks is bad for crippled people.
>
>
This is the weirdest argument that no European even gets. Cars are literally the epitome of anti-disabled design lol, how's a guy in a wheelchair gonna ride a car? In Europe when we say that we design cities for disabled people, we talk about as much human space as possible.
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You dont see people on the streets most of the time in suburban areas either. It has little to nothing to do with the buildings. That just compiles on top.
Nobody is out on the streets because you have to drive to go to 99% of places you want to go in America, provided you dont live in a city or have public transport in your area...which is mostly confined to cities.
Most of the people I've seen walking in areas outside of cities are highschoolers or younger.
Originally from Boston now living in the South. This was a huge adjustment. I still walk all over the place, but that means walking in the middle of the road, through culverts, etc.
People here think nothing of driving from parking space to parking space within a single strip mall.
Hi Bostonian! I had the exact opposite experience coming from Chicopee to Boston. I'm so glad that there's the train lines along with easy accessible places
Same here. Didn’t get my license until 25 when I moved to SoFlo.
I will say though, I’ve definitely eaten the driving pill lol I absolutely love it, just because it’s fun.
In Chicago if a sidewalk ends, it's time to do the Ralph Wiggum chuckle, "I'm in danger!"
Since Shel Silverstein grew up in Palmer Square, he knew the dangers and tried to warm us.
I always wonder why NY still hasnt banned cars. Only a very small percentage of the people there use cars, I think. And these very few people make the life of much more people worse. (With banning cars I dont mean ban ambulances and delivery vehicles)
I have a car in New York City and the only reason is because of my job. I work as a teamster (truck driver and van driver) on tv shows/movies in NJ and NY. Depending on the job/production I could have to pick up my equipment in Greenpoint, Long Island City, Jackson Heights, Port Washington, DUMBO or Astoria. That’s just in New York. If the jobs in jersey I could have to pick up at any of the above places or Closter, Edison or Kearny in NJ.
My contract for most jobs is a 12.8 hour day or a 64 hour work week, before overtime. If I’m driving a truck I have to pick it up and drop it off every day, if I’m driving a van I get to bring that home with me. Usually on a Monday when I pick up a truck I start anywhere between 4 am and 6 am, that’s the time I’m suppose to be driving out of the yard. It would be impossible/illogical for me to rely on public transportation to get to the above places in a reasonable amount of time via public transport.
I currently live on the upper east side, if I have a 430 out in greenpoint (which is only 5 miles away) I can drive there at that time in under 20 minutes with lights. If I were to rely on subway/bus/walking it would take me over an hour. A lot of the places I have to get my equipment from are in “industrial” areas which have little to no access to public transport.
Can’t speak for anyone else but that’s why I have a car
For some reason I thought you were a fake teamster. Like, you drive trucks and vans IN TV/Movies.. like you act as a Teamster...
Then I was like, wow that must be pretty much being actually like a teamster...
I'm dumb.
Haha no worries, when I tell people “I drive people and things on tv shows and movies” a lot jump the way you did. But yeah just a regular teamster except we specialize in entertainment productions in nyc and nj. My union also covers places like Madison Square Garden, Barclays Center and The Met where we unload the trucks for the shows. Local 817, proud to be a part of it.
Plenty of people still drive in NY, and the more you ban people from the roads and they see how empty they become, they'll want to be selfish and drive more.
Also what do you do with people driving to NYC to visit? Have parking garages on the outskirts? Can you only visit NYC by cab, metro, or Airplane?
>Plenty of people still drive in NY, and the more you ban people from the roads and they see how empty they become, they'll want to be selfish and drive more.
Induced demand
>Have parking garages on the outskirts? Can you only visit NYC by cab, metro, or Airplane?
Yes, that would be a good idea. Parking on the outskirts and then reliable, safe, clean and cheap transit into the city.
That's nice to have, but that's why they haven't just banned cars yet - because you need all that stuff set up first. Each of these - the parking, the cabs, the metro, the airport, and then the reliability, safety, and cleanliness of all of these is a huge project all by itself. Oh and low cost, too. There will be huge opposition by locals to the decades of construction and land grabbing necessary, as well as constant lobbying to halt the project by corporate interests, assuming money isn't an issue (it's the biggest issue).
Not meaning to be pessimistic, but NYC cannot even get the century old subway to be more inviting, let alone set all of this in motion.
You can basically only visit london inside the M25 via train so it's not as unreasonable as you think.
Not because of car bans, but because cars are so horrible to drive and park in london the good train services are vastly preferable.
My family went on holiday to Kent. We did day trips into london and used the 140mph train service instead of driving the same distance.
Give people good alternatives and they'll use them.
Yes. This is called Park and Ride. We have it in countless UK cities, and it helps keep the centre pedestrianised and free of congestion. Works like a charm.
This bullshit exists over the Hudson, in Jersey. People literally having to walk on a city street amongst cars because there is no other access. This is square in middle of downtown too.
midwesternaire here. fuck what passes for city planning. i power thru when the path ends typically. sometimes to my detriment and sometimes not but i refuse to accept and submit
Honestly, living in a northern state, climbing mountains of snow from plowed parking lots, streets, and driveways is a normal part of winter walking. When you reach a giant snow pile covering the sidewalk at an intersection, you have three options:
1: You can climb over and drop down from the pile
2: You can walk around it through the snow-covered boulevard or down a driveway, both into the street
3: You can walk down to the other end of the block to cross at a crosswalk and back up to where you were, essentially adding two blocks to your walk
Cars and malls are the problem. Why walk outside when you can *drive* somewhere to walk around inside from shop to shop buying overpriced poorly made shit. How else would you find the need to buy gas and new tires.
Yep, malls are dead. It's all plazas now. The landlords don't even bother providing climate controlled pedestrian spaces linking stores and instead devote even more space to surface parking.
You know the best part? Malls don’t get shut down because they lose money. Most mall closures occur when the malls are profitable. They are closed because of financial engineering. Basically corporate raiders shut them down because they’re more valuable as tax write offs than businesses.
Look at the European retail market. There have been more new shopping malls built in Europe in the last 10 years than there have been malls closed in america.
at my local mall there are a lot of "mall walkers"
(mostly retired people) who drive there just to walk around for exercise. my dad is one of them. i don't know why he doesn't just walk around his very walkable neighborhood.
The only thing I can say in favor of walking at the mall is that it's better than heatstroke. I can't believe how much hotter it is now than even a few years ago let alone ten. But even then, my local mall struggles with the heat. Their a/c was meant for alpine summers.
that's true. when i go to the mall it's insane how hot it can get in there, even in the winter. i think it's because when it gets busy there's so much body heat condensed in one space. when i go shopping in november/december i often leave my coat in the car even if it's freezing just because i don't want to faint from overheating with my coat in the mall. plus it's annoying to carry.
I miss real malls. Malls you could at least walk around comfortably once you got there and have a nice day out. They don’t even do actual malls anymore. Now its all “outlet malls” which are giant concrete parking lot hell-scapes where the Sephora and Barnes & Nobles are on opposite sides of a three football field exposed expanse. No shade, no rest spots just parking lot. It’s like walking across a frying pan in the summer. It makes shopping a punishment.
Cities with no desire to enforce zoning regulations attractive to pedestrians are the real problem. Developers will build whatever the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) will allow.
Actually we have three legs for driving manual cars. You see, each foot operates either the clutch, brake or gas.
Silly two footed Americans need automatics.
I've done that in Scotland. It was part of the walking tour route. Stumbling along uneven ground while cars whizzed past next to my ear. Seriously, cars just suck.
There's a sidewalk along the main road going through my town, there's a gas station on the corner and some apartments behind it. The sidewalk doesn't connect to the apartments at all. When I lived there I frequently saw old ladies on mobility scooters along the side of the road going to the gas station because the convinence store was actually convenient compared to getting in a car and driving on the highway to the Walmart nearby.
At one point while I was living there I saw a city construction crew come in and install a storm drain. They didn't put in a sidewalk. A sidewalk that would have been just long enough to connect to the already existing sidewalk along the highway.
It would have been about 50ft of sidewalk, they already had the tools and materials. Just bring in a little more and actually connect your fucking sidewalk to people.
The perfect opportunity to fix the problem of their sidewalk not being goddamn usable was handed to them and the city didn't fucking do it.
God I haven't even lived there in nearly half a year and I'm still angry about it.
Sometimes those sidewalk gaps are a result of the ordinances that dictate who pays for the construction, maintenance, etc. If the gap is on land owned by a third party who doesn't utilize the land they may have to pay to have the sidewalk installed, and be responsible for keeping it cleared in the winter.
Nobody is going to take on that responsibility for property they're not living on/using. It's a really messed up system overall, but it's comprised of a lot of different parts all working against a homogenous sidewalk system.
Its not just LA. Even small cities had robust trams and such. It was all ripped up and bull dozed after "white flight" left cities starving, while simultaneously undergoing "urban renewal" which largely meant "destroy low-income neighborhoods and replace them with highways."
[It is mid-sized but Boston is a great example. You can see the entire upper-left quadrant in this picture was neighborhoods, and was removed for car-centric infrastructure. Additionally the length of Storrow Drive is now a gouge along the river as well as the huge highway cutting the city in half.](https://i.redd.it/6f2oaiy24jb81.png)
Fun fact: Storrow Drive was left to the city explicitly as public green space, and the city said "fuck that" and built one of the worst and most aggravating roads in the entire city.
I actually saw a bus the other day. It had been close to ten years. They had built bus stops but cancelled the lines and nothing ran out in my direction.
I still would have to drive to my nearest bus stop but it was nice to see.
Precisely. Cars and guns are two things the USA will never...de prioritize. It's funny watching people here on Reddit think eventually, it will. Unfortunately, it will not. Too big of a country to ever get along well. Too many cultures and schools of thought.
I hate cars and guns. But I am not the average rural or suburban American. And apparently neither are most people here.
I live in suburbia in Texas, sidewalks here just end because the city refuses to build them and leaves them up to private industry to build out. They have to build them, but if the lot is empty, no matter how much foot traffic the dirt median on the side of the busy road gets, it'll never get a sidewalk. So you constantly get breaks in the sidewalk or it ends and suddenly switches sides as one side is developed but the other isn't. I literally can't walk to the grocery store on one continuous piece of sidewalk for 1 mile. Add to that there's only a bike lane on one side of the road, not both. So you can come in by bike, but you can't leave by bike, safely or legally.
They actively hate pedestrians. Many suburban areas are designed to keep walking ppl out. Many ppl don’t believe it but this bad city planning stems from racism.
The good news is that these decisions are local.
As cynical as people are about national politics most local stuff is driven by a dozen decrepit boomers mad that the town isn't a time capsule of the 1950s. It is less smoke filled back rooms with lobbyists and more "old man yelling at cloud" in a city council meeting.
Show up with a few friends to the next city council meeting and you will be surprised at how quickly you can make a difference. Even if it is a small one.
I'm currently trying to get sidewalks on my street. Taxes dont cover sidewalks and it's the home owners responsibility, UNLESS the city deems them necessary. New developments commonly have sidewalks, but older homes along the way don't.
While the speed limit is 25 on my street, it's long and straight, it's not uncommon for people to drive 30/35 and we can hear people going faster at night. There are 3 grade schools within a 1/4 mile of me and children are needing to cross the street on unmarked crossings. It's just dangerous. Plus, as someone with a dog, walking on the road with car traffic just isn't safe.
In my ideal world, a sidewalk and a bike lane would be installed on one side of the street. The city spent millions on installing bike infrastructure on a busy street that's 1/2 mile from me and I can't safetly get there.
And no, not everyone cares about pedestrians. Some drivers slow down and give wide spacing to those walking on the streets, and others do not. Local online groups complain about taking roads down from 2 lanes to 1 to accommodate pedestrians and bicyclist saying no one uses them anyway. 1) they do, and 2) it's not always safe or accessible.
I live in Tampa Bay. You'd have many stories of being hit by a car if you weren't killed. I dream of good mass transit.
Also, if that video was here, not only would the street be busy, there would probably be a vehicle on the sidewalk as well.
There's a bylaw in my city that says you shouldn't ride bikes on the sidewalk, but since nobody uses them anyway, i do because riding next to cars is 💀
Our city has the same law, but you will see police officers on bikes riding on the side walk instead of the residential streets. If the police is scared to ride on the street, I have no chance.
>If the police is scared to ride on the street
Well police are scared of everything, but you're also right to be afraid of riding a bike next to cars. I've been hit too many times trying to.
Yeah the police had not once cared about me riding on the sidewalk.
The city has now started to install "bike lanes", but they're not protected!! Most of the roads inside the city are built like highways and they freaking painted the bike lanes INBETWEEN car lanes. Big NOPE for me.
I'm not getting in the road that's where people die.
In my experience they nobody gives a crap until you run somebody over but when I pass pedestrians I'll get up in the grass or get off the bike.
My little town built a "study sidewalk" to determine local need for sidewalks to be built/maintained in town, the logic being "we'll see how many people use this sidewalk and if they do we'll make more"
Except the sidewalk they built was just a single stretch of pavement along the highway, not connected to anything. Nobody used it because it was the most inaccessible sidewalk I've ever seen.
Then they used that to justify not building more.
Let's build half a bridge across the river. If 100 cars per day drive to the end and crash into the water, then we will build the other half. Wait, no cars are in the river? Well, why bother completing that bridge.
We built a parking garage next to the football stadium. For now, it's a pilot study. After seeing how many people use it next month, then we will consider cutting out a hole for the entrance.
As an American, when I lived in England there was no freedom in the US like being able to step out the front door and walking down the lane a little and having unrestricted access to endless miles of English countryside and not having to worry about someone calling the police or pulling a gun on me for being on "their" property.
Could you explain? I'm pretty sure the U.K. still has trespassing laws . . .
I've heard that in Norway, you can't forbid someone access to uncultivated land, but I've never heard of anything similar for any other country.
I'm probably not the right person to ask. It's more complicated than I thought it was. https://www.rowberrymorris.co.uk/site/library/rowberry_morris_news/get-off-my-land-who-has-the-right-to-roam-over-farmland
Seems like it's less stringent than US law, but not quite what I was led to believe. When I visited, the stuff I had read made it sound like you could just camp anywhere as long as you didn't make a mess.
As far as I know, things became more stringent some few years ago. At least several backpackers I used to follow on YouTube led me to believe so. I'm not familiar with details though.
Rights of way are a big deal in the UK. Culturally, it's a little like the Second Amendment in the US: you don't mess with rights of way. People will go to great lengths to preserve an ancient right of way across a marsh between two tiny villages.
In Scotland, we have a right to roam modelled on Scandinavia, which the rest of the UK doesn't have. As long as you're not interfering with the landowner's use of the land, you can pretty much go anywhere.
I don’t know about England, but in Germany there are thousands of miles of bike and pedestrian paths literally everywhere. You. Can get virtually from anywhere in the country to anywhere else solely by bike path.
They are largely paved and have direction signs just like highways. Through Forests, Farm Fields, along rivers, and all through towns. It’s really incredible and encourages you to hop on a bike or go for a walk. And nearly all State and Federal owned land is accessible by anyone.
Scotland has the Right To Roam, which I wish we had across the UK. Beyond that trespass is generally a civil issue and not a criminal one. You cannot assault a person to evict them from your land, and to do so would be as much as crime as it would be on public property.
Yeah, in the US I'd have someone calling the police or threatening me if I was near their cattle, in England, no one gave shit not even the cows, but yeah, I definitely had to watch out for the cow pies.
Likewise, as a man who grew up in England visiting the US with my (then) other half to see her parents was incredibly eye opening. They'd announce we were going down the 'the club' for a meal. Awesome, into the car we pile. Thirty seconds later we arrive. So many journeys were like this, and to my walker's mind it was so bemusing.
Did they have a walkable path to the place? There’s not even a sidewalk from my neighborhood to my kids schools that are a half mile up the same damn road. We used to live a mile and a half away and we couldn’t walk to them then either, because we had a sidewalk until you had to cross a major freeway and then there was a sidewalk on the other side for a few yards and then nothing until you got to the schools.
When I visited London, my most favorite part of it was I didn’t need a car for anything. I could walk and if it was far, I could hop on the tube. To have that where we are would be a dream. I also remember it being so clean. I once tried to walk with my son to my parents house when they moved a couple miles away from us and found out that was a waste. The sidewalk that was there was overgrown with brush and then when the brush ended, so did the sidewalk. And then the construction where the whole area up to the curb was dug up. There’s just no safe way to walk or bike. I hate it.
You've reached the end of the free trial for SideWalk, pay your taxes and just maybe we'll see improved infrastructure for SideWalk 2.
^SideWalk ^is ^owned ^by ^AutoMobiles.
I wish the US was more walkable. I used to walk 8 or 12 miles most days when I was living and working in the city. That city wasn't even very walking friendly.
Lots of walkable towns and cities in the North East.
I can go months without ever using my car and only drive in the winter to get to the nearby mountains to ski.
There are plenty of these in the UK. I live in a large town and can think of a handful of them off the top of my head.
Also stayed in a small town, maybe village that had basically no pavement anywhere. That was weird.
In britain if a right of way exists it is exceptionally difficult to remove and it shocks me America has no such thing where a person has legal right to walk somewhere. Especially since freedom of movement was something the founding fathers were big on
Pedestrians have right of way, it’s just not worth the risk because even if you’re “in the right” to be somewhere on a road, if someone else violates that right you are most likely dead or very wounded.
Infrastructure and road design needs to encourage that pedestrian right of way, but it doesn’t in most places in America.
We just pay all our money in taxes so they can use it to only build unsustainable car infrastructure that extorts us into spending all of our money plus debt on a car, repairs, maintenance, gas, insurance, etc otherwise we can't travel to things that we need to travel to in order to function in society 🙃 . . . they won't even build sidewalks on a lot of roads
And the only options around this are the very expensive NYC, San Francisco, and Chicago. Even though cities are insanely more efficient and cost effective than suburbs and rural towns. We need more alternatives. And also less restrictive zoning laws
In San Diego this was all over the place. Just absolutely infuriating and insane. Needless to say, I moved back to Canada ASAP.
Living in San Diego felt like I was living in uncanny valley city; like an AI designed the city by looking at what cities "look like" and then just sort of throwing a couple of sidewalks around without having an intended purpose
Or when people are all “you drive to the gym to walk on the treadmill?” excuse me what fuckin choice do we have??
Where I used to live I had to walk across 3 peoples’ front lawns to get to a road that wasn’t busy. If I went across even more lawns I reached a sidewalk
The new sidewalk-ed stretch of road even had a bike lane! But to get there on my bike I had to get on the busy old main road with low visibility (a turn surrounded by trees right before the sidewalkless stretch I had to venture on)
I agree with you on that too but a lot of front-page redditor types think gyms are relics of the past only stupid people use. But even for those people a gym might be the only way to get decent exercise in car-fucked areas even though they refuse to admit it
>a similar island I often go on (Noirmoutier) is wayyyyy more bike friendly.
Islands are cheating though, because there are more obvious reasons in that case for not wanting to devote precious land space to car infrastructure. There are islands even in the US that either disallow or strongly discourage cars. Block Island in Long Island Sound is an example of the latter.
When Seattle expanded it's borders north it didn't build out sidewalks into all the neighborhoods there. The city does require new construction to pay for their own sidewalks to be installed, so you'll be walking down a block and there'll be a sidewalk in front of one building and that's it. Owners/developers complain about being saddled with the expense, which is justifiable given just how half-assed the system is.
My wife is from the Philippines and she cannot comprehend how empty my neighborhood is. Her neighborhood back in the Philippines is constantly buzzing with activity. Literally every time you walk outside you see multiple people wandering around. Meanwhile in my neighborhood you can go for a nice one hour walk and not see another soul. She keeps asking me “where is everybody?” And I never really have a great answer.
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As a New Yorker I become equally as frustrated when I see this.
SF resident, same. When I take the train down to Santa Clara, I have to make sure to cross the stroad at the light before turning left towards my destination, because there's an expressway entrance down there and I won't be able to cross. The streets are busy enough around here that you have to look behind you before you step to the side or you might cut someone off. Even San Diego looks like a ghost town to me. Europe is *really* densely populated, though. Funny how the carbrains act like living near other people is hell, and then go to Europe on vacation.
Or even go into the city on weekends lol. How can you hate a place but still go there when you want to live life
My mother literally does this, she often gets a hotel in the capital for a couple days as a small vacation. My family drives an hour to the nearest city to go to a Chipotle or something and then they drive home. They will drive 4 hours to come to a play where I live and then decline to stay an extra day and do stuff. 8 hours of driving to spend 4 hours up here for dinner and a play and then go right back. But when I convince them to stay for even one extra day we do tons of activities: paddleboating, museums, zoos, nature parks, restaurants, gardens, water parks, biking, wandering around window shopping, etc. Then they gush about how amazing where I live is while trying to move even further into the wilderness. It's absolutely astounding. I cannot imagine spending that much time in a car to do so little on the other side.
If I learnt anything about americans whilst working with them, it seems you guys are completely chill with the concept of driving 12 hours for like a days visit. I'm conflicted if something's an hour away.
Most of us drive 15-20 miles each way to commute to work. So a few hour drive is t that much of a stretch. I’m now the closest I have ever lived for work and it is 8 miles or a 16 minute commute.
20 miles isn’t uncommon in Europe. However, most of us think that the other stuff should be closeby
I live about 15 minutes away from work give or take, and it’s funny because even though I do, biking is still not an option for me. Bike paths just end, the stretch of road I drive on is 35mph and it’s next to houses yet there are still no sidewalks connecting the houses, people on the 35mph road regularly go 45-50, and at one of the intersections connecting 2 big roads I’ve heard of at least 2 bikers being killed, one of them by a cop speeding through the intersection and the other by a drunk driver who sped through a red light, t boned a car, that spun out and pinned the biker to the light pole while he was waiting for the light to change.
I might want to go to Disneyland for a day but I wouldn’t want to live there, probably for similar reasons as the people you describe.
That's funny because there are a lot of people who want and do live in Disneyland and I have a feeling that many of them are carbrains.
> Europe is really densely populated, This is a common talking point, but is really deceiving and wrong. Many parts of the US are also quite densely populated, eg. the east coast is actually much more densely than a lot of parts of Europe are, yet there you still don't have any good urbanisim in the slightest. In Europe on the other hand you will find sidewalks even in the most remote towns. Not having sidewalks is not even really consider an option to have, it's simply the standard. The difference is not the density, the difference is design planned around humans instead of cars. It's literally that simply explained. Stop using this car-brain argument please. It's nonsensical
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> Getting rid of on-street parking to make bike paths and sidewalks is bad for crippled people. > > This is the weirdest argument that no European even gets. Cars are literally the epitome of anti-disabled design lol, how's a guy in a wheelchair gonna ride a car? In Europe when we say that we design cities for disabled people, we talk about as much human space as possible.
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You dont see people on the streets most of the time in suburban areas either. It has little to nothing to do with the buildings. That just compiles on top. Nobody is out on the streets because you have to drive to go to 99% of places you want to go in America, provided you dont live in a city or have public transport in your area...which is mostly confined to cities. Most of the people I've seen walking in areas outside of cities are highschoolers or younger.
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Originally from Boston now living in the South. This was a huge adjustment. I still walk all over the place, but that means walking in the middle of the road, through culverts, etc. People here think nothing of driving from parking space to parking space within a single strip mall.
Hi Bostonian! I had the exact opposite experience coming from Chicopee to Boston. I'm so glad that there's the train lines along with easy accessible places
Same here. Didn’t get my license until 25 when I moved to SoFlo. I will say though, I’ve definitely eaten the driving pill lol I absolutely love it, just because it’s fun.
In Chicago if a sidewalk ends, it's time to do the Ralph Wiggum chuckle, "I'm in danger!" Since Shel Silverstein grew up in Palmer Square, he knew the dangers and tried to warm us.
I always wonder why NY still hasnt banned cars. Only a very small percentage of the people there use cars, I think. And these very few people make the life of much more people worse. (With banning cars I dont mean ban ambulances and delivery vehicles)
I have a car in New York City and the only reason is because of my job. I work as a teamster (truck driver and van driver) on tv shows/movies in NJ and NY. Depending on the job/production I could have to pick up my equipment in Greenpoint, Long Island City, Jackson Heights, Port Washington, DUMBO or Astoria. That’s just in New York. If the jobs in jersey I could have to pick up at any of the above places or Closter, Edison or Kearny in NJ. My contract for most jobs is a 12.8 hour day or a 64 hour work week, before overtime. If I’m driving a truck I have to pick it up and drop it off every day, if I’m driving a van I get to bring that home with me. Usually on a Monday when I pick up a truck I start anywhere between 4 am and 6 am, that’s the time I’m suppose to be driving out of the yard. It would be impossible/illogical for me to rely on public transportation to get to the above places in a reasonable amount of time via public transport. I currently live on the upper east side, if I have a 430 out in greenpoint (which is only 5 miles away) I can drive there at that time in under 20 minutes with lights. If I were to rely on subway/bus/walking it would take me over an hour. A lot of the places I have to get my equipment from are in “industrial” areas which have little to no access to public transport. Can’t speak for anyone else but that’s why I have a car
For some reason I thought you were a fake teamster. Like, you drive trucks and vans IN TV/Movies.. like you act as a Teamster... Then I was like, wow that must be pretty much being actually like a teamster... I'm dumb.
Haha no worries, when I tell people “I drive people and things on tv shows and movies” a lot jump the way you did. But yeah just a regular teamster except we specialize in entertainment productions in nyc and nj. My union also covers places like Madison Square Garden, Barclays Center and The Met where we unload the trucks for the shows. Local 817, proud to be a part of it.
About 2 million cars in NYC, that's 1 car per 4.1 residents.
Plenty of people still drive in NY, and the more you ban people from the roads and they see how empty they become, they'll want to be selfish and drive more. Also what do you do with people driving to NYC to visit? Have parking garages on the outskirts? Can you only visit NYC by cab, metro, or Airplane?
>Plenty of people still drive in NY, and the more you ban people from the roads and they see how empty they become, they'll want to be selfish and drive more. Induced demand >Have parking garages on the outskirts? Can you only visit NYC by cab, metro, or Airplane? Yes, that would be a good idea. Parking on the outskirts and then reliable, safe, clean and cheap transit into the city.
That's nice to have, but that's why they haven't just banned cars yet - because you need all that stuff set up first. Each of these - the parking, the cabs, the metro, the airport, and then the reliability, safety, and cleanliness of all of these is a huge project all by itself. Oh and low cost, too. There will be huge opposition by locals to the decades of construction and land grabbing necessary, as well as constant lobbying to halt the project by corporate interests, assuming money isn't an issue (it's the biggest issue). Not meaning to be pessimistic, but NYC cannot even get the century old subway to be more inviting, let alone set all of this in motion.
You can basically only visit london inside the M25 via train so it's not as unreasonable as you think. Not because of car bans, but because cars are so horrible to drive and park in london the good train services are vastly preferable. My family went on holiday to Kent. We did day trips into london and used the 140mph train service instead of driving the same distance. Give people good alternatives and they'll use them.
Yes. This is called Park and Ride. We have it in countless UK cities, and it helps keep the centre pedestrianised and free of congestion. Works like a charm.
Fr we have a mf trail that connects from jersey to Canada lol
It's a great excuse to avoid Long Island.
This bullshit exists over the Hudson, in Jersey. People literally having to walk on a city street amongst cars because there is no other access. This is square in middle of downtown too.
As an adult I become frustrated seeing videos of couples walking in sync.
midwesternaire here. fuck what passes for city planning. i power thru when the path ends typically. sometimes to my detriment and sometimes not but i refuse to accept and submit
East coast in general is more walkable.
They do it with bike lanes in New York too. Suddenly, they just stop.
It doesn't end. This is the climbing portion. Just climb across the fence to continue your journey.
Honestly, living in a northern state, climbing mountains of snow from plowed parking lots, streets, and driveways is a normal part of winter walking. When you reach a giant snow pile covering the sidewalk at an intersection, you have three options: 1: You can climb over and drop down from the pile 2: You can walk around it through the snow-covered boulevard or down a driveway, both into the street 3: You can walk down to the other end of the block to cross at a crosswalk and back up to where you were, essentially adding two blocks to your walk
I just climb over the snow banks in the winter
I prefer boring holes and making slides and tunnels in the piles. Blizzard of 93, you were awesome.
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Cars and malls are the problem. Why walk outside when you can *drive* somewhere to walk around inside from shop to shop buying overpriced poorly made shit. How else would you find the need to buy gas and new tires.
Malls are increasingly gone from American suburbs. All this driving has done away with places to actually drive to.
All this driving has destroyed their local economies because having only car traffic is detrimental to volume. They did it to themselves
Suburbs are all running at a deficit, they're bankrupting the country.
Yep, malls are dead. It's all plazas now. The landlords don't even bother providing climate controlled pedestrian spaces linking stores and instead devote even more space to surface parking.
You know the best part? Malls don’t get shut down because they lose money. Most mall closures occur when the malls are profitable. They are closed because of financial engineering. Basically corporate raiders shut them down because they’re more valuable as tax write offs than businesses. Look at the European retail market. There have been more new shopping malls built in Europe in the last 10 years than there have been malls closed in america.
Well yeah, nobody wants to go anywhere and have to deal with all the traffic!
at my local mall there are a lot of "mall walkers" (mostly retired people) who drive there just to walk around for exercise. my dad is one of them. i don't know why he doesn't just walk around his very walkable neighborhood.
The only thing I can say in favor of walking at the mall is that it's better than heatstroke. I can't believe how much hotter it is now than even a few years ago let alone ten. But even then, my local mall struggles with the heat. Their a/c was meant for alpine summers.
that's true. when i go to the mall it's insane how hot it can get in there, even in the winter. i think it's because when it gets busy there's so much body heat condensed in one space. when i go shopping in november/december i often leave my coat in the car even if it's freezing just because i don't want to faint from overheating with my coat in the mall. plus it's annoying to carry.
Air conditioning
And they park *very close to the entrance*. Like gym rats do.
I miss real malls. Malls you could at least walk around comfortably once you got there and have a nice day out. They don’t even do actual malls anymore. Now its all “outlet malls” which are giant concrete parking lot hell-scapes where the Sephora and Barnes & Nobles are on opposite sides of a three football field exposed expanse. No shade, no rest spots just parking lot. It’s like walking across a frying pan in the summer. It makes shopping a punishment.
Cities with no desire to enforce zoning regulations attractive to pedestrians are the real problem. Developers will build whatever the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) will allow.
It’s a runescape agility obstacle
Agility lvl ?
I mean super Mario world had to based off something
🎵🎶 that land was meant for you and me!
At the end of the clip you can see someone lost a shoe attempting this feat prior.
He hasn’t unlocked that yet in the skill tree. He will have to go back to the sidewalk area and complete more of the story first.
TIL Europeans have three legs.
That's what walking too much does to a mf.
which is why we need cars 😤 /j
Actually we have three legs for driving manual cars. You see, each foot operates either the clutch, brake or gas. Silly two footed Americans need automatics.
#BURN
r/fuckcars
Americans are a two legged people. If you don’t like it get out!
TIL Americans are pitiful two-legged creatures
Four-wheeled creatures*
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Wall E was so ahead of its time.
I think Plato wrote about this.
Oh yea they do
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I've seen people walking along the shoulder of some roads and highways because there's no sidewalks
I've done that in Scotland. It was part of the walking tour route. Stumbling along uneven ground while cars whizzed past next to my ear. Seriously, cars just suck.
Seriously Like holy shit why the fuck do sidewalks just… stop? It’s so goddamn infuriating
There's a sidewalk along the main road going through my town, there's a gas station on the corner and some apartments behind it. The sidewalk doesn't connect to the apartments at all. When I lived there I frequently saw old ladies on mobility scooters along the side of the road going to the gas station because the convinence store was actually convenient compared to getting in a car and driving on the highway to the Walmart nearby. At one point while I was living there I saw a city construction crew come in and install a storm drain. They didn't put in a sidewalk. A sidewalk that would have been just long enough to connect to the already existing sidewalk along the highway. It would have been about 50ft of sidewalk, they already had the tools and materials. Just bring in a little more and actually connect your fucking sidewalk to people. The perfect opportunity to fix the problem of their sidewalk not being goddamn usable was handed to them and the city didn't fucking do it. God I haven't even lived there in nearly half a year and I'm still angry about it.
Sometimes those sidewalk gaps are a result of the ordinances that dictate who pays for the construction, maintenance, etc. If the gap is on land owned by a third party who doesn't utilize the land they may have to pay to have the sidewalk installed, and be responsible for keeping it cleared in the winter. Nobody is going to take on that responsibility for property they're not living on/using. It's a really messed up system overall, but it's comprised of a lot of different parts all working against a homogenous sidewalk system.
Just buy some cars /s
To be fair, we have these spots here, too. But mostly in industrial estates and where a city street becomes a rural road.
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Didn't they also get rid of a lot of public transport in that effort? LA used to have a lot of tramways iirc.
Literally the plot of "Who framed Roger Rabbit?"
Its not just LA. Even small cities had robust trams and such. It was all ripped up and bull dozed after "white flight" left cities starving, while simultaneously undergoing "urban renewal" which largely meant "destroy low-income neighborhoods and replace them with highways." [It is mid-sized but Boston is a great example. You can see the entire upper-left quadrant in this picture was neighborhoods, and was removed for car-centric infrastructure. Additionally the length of Storrow Drive is now a gouge along the river as well as the huge highway cutting the city in half.](https://i.redd.it/6f2oaiy24jb81.png) Fun fact: Storrow Drive was left to the city explicitly as public green space, and the city said "fuck that" and built one of the worst and most aggravating roads in the entire city.
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Even better when there is a bus stop but no sidewalk to get to it easily
I actually saw a bus the other day. It had been close to ten years. They had built bus stops but cancelled the lines and nothing ran out in my direction. I still would have to drive to my nearest bus stop but it was nice to see.
Walk in the ditch ofc 😵💫
Because the US had/has a car boner. Driving roads were all the priority.
Germans have car boner too. Yet sidewalks exist. So do trains and everything else.
It’s not the same. The US blew up around the time of automobiles. They basically ingrained it into our society.
Just like guns?
Precisely. Cars and guns are two things the USA will never...de prioritize. It's funny watching people here on Reddit think eventually, it will. Unfortunately, it will not. Too big of a country to ever get along well. Too many cultures and schools of thought. I hate cars and guns. But I am not the average rural or suburban American. And apparently neither are most people here.
I used to live in Texas and they would create intersections with sidewalks that didn't have another sidewalk to connect to.
ADA ramps to nowhere are my pet peeves.
I live in suburbia in Texas, sidewalks here just end because the city refuses to build them and leaves them up to private industry to build out. They have to build them, but if the lot is empty, no matter how much foot traffic the dirt median on the side of the busy road gets, it'll never get a sidewalk. So you constantly get breaks in the sidewalk or it ends and suddenly switches sides as one side is developed but the other isn't. I literally can't walk to the grocery store on one continuous piece of sidewalk for 1 mile. Add to that there's only a bike lane on one side of the road, not both. So you can come in by bike, but you can't leave by bike, safely or legally.
I mean being German I would expect a sign to inform me that the sidewalk will end. In fact several signs, one every 50 meters.
They actively hate pedestrians. Many suburban areas are designed to keep walking ppl out. Many ppl don’t believe it but this bad city planning stems from racism.
The good news is that these decisions are local. As cynical as people are about national politics most local stuff is driven by a dozen decrepit boomers mad that the town isn't a time capsule of the 1950s. It is less smoke filled back rooms with lobbyists and more "old man yelling at cloud" in a city council meeting. Show up with a few friends to the next city council meeting and you will be surprised at how quickly you can make a difference. Even if it is a small one.
I'm currently trying to get sidewalks on my street. Taxes dont cover sidewalks and it's the home owners responsibility, UNLESS the city deems them necessary. New developments commonly have sidewalks, but older homes along the way don't. While the speed limit is 25 on my street, it's long and straight, it's not uncommon for people to drive 30/35 and we can hear people going faster at night. There are 3 grade schools within a 1/4 mile of me and children are needing to cross the street on unmarked crossings. It's just dangerous. Plus, as someone with a dog, walking on the road with car traffic just isn't safe. In my ideal world, a sidewalk and a bike lane would be installed on one side of the street. The city spent millions on installing bike infrastructure on a busy street that's 1/2 mile from me and I can't safetly get there. And no, not everyone cares about pedestrians. Some drivers slow down and give wide spacing to those walking on the streets, and others do not. Local online groups complain about taking roads down from 2 lanes to 1 to accommodate pedestrians and bicyclist saying no one uses them anyway. 1) they do, and 2) it's not always safe or accessible.
Land in the other side of a sidewalk could be owned by someone else or the state.
This is why usually a certain amount of land next to the road is reserved for the city’s use or why eminent domain exists.
Sadly it could well be the city land where the sidewalk ends. The US is legit fucked that way.
The contractor wasn't required by law to build it, thats the American way.
This is all over the place in the downtown core of Californian cities.
Cities with good mass transit are all walkable. I didn't have a car until I was 20, and I only got it then because I moved away from NYC.
I live in Tampa Bay. You'd have many stories of being hit by a car if you weren't killed. I dream of good mass transit. Also, if that video was here, not only would the street be busy, there would probably be a vehicle on the sidewalk as well.
There's a bylaw in my city that says you shouldn't ride bikes on the sidewalk, but since nobody uses them anyway, i do because riding next to cars is 💀
Our city has the same law, but you will see police officers on bikes riding on the side walk instead of the residential streets. If the police is scared to ride on the street, I have no chance.
>If the police is scared to ride on the street Well police are scared of everything, but you're also right to be afraid of riding a bike next to cars. I've been hit too many times trying to.
Yeah the police had not once cared about me riding on the sidewalk. The city has now started to install "bike lanes", but they're not protected!! Most of the roads inside the city are built like highways and they freaking painted the bike lanes INBETWEEN car lanes. Big NOPE for me.
I'm not getting in the road that's where people die. In my experience they nobody gives a crap until you run somebody over but when I pass pedestrians I'll get up in the grass or get off the bike.
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I just don't want to die 😭
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Whether you meant this ironically or not I find it hilarious
That sounds a bit awful.
Only😂
You're not really selling it...
is this what Shel Silverstein was talking about?
Yes
finally someone used this meme format correctly
i don't know... of all the times that "oh no" song might have actually fit.
that song and the text to speech voice are the reasons i watch TikToks on mute
i fucking hate the "oh no" sound I skip the video immediately when I see it
Way too much text though
redditors when they have to read
TLDR?
reddit when word
Perfect. Thank.
TLDR?
yeeeee
⠀
Tbf they have written what should be about 3 separate sentences as one giant block of text without proper punctuation.
My little town built a "study sidewalk" to determine local need for sidewalks to be built/maintained in town, the logic being "we'll see how many people use this sidewalk and if they do we'll make more" Except the sidewalk they built was just a single stretch of pavement along the highway, not connected to anything. Nobody used it because it was the most inaccessible sidewalk I've ever seen. Then they used that to justify not building more.
Let's build half a bridge across the river. If 100 cars per day drive to the end and crash into the water, then we will build the other half. Wait, no cars are in the river? Well, why bother completing that bridge. We built a parking garage next to the football stadium. For now, it's a pilot study. After seeing how many people use it next month, then we will consider cutting out a hole for the entrance.
Paris is cool but I think it needs more parking lots everywhere and maybe like a 6 lane freeway right through the core of the city
It needs more dog shit too
As an American, when I lived in England there was no freedom in the US like being able to step out the front door and walking down the lane a little and having unrestricted access to endless miles of English countryside and not having to worry about someone calling the police or pulling a gun on me for being on "their" property.
When I found out they don't have trespassing laws like the US, I was dumbfounded. They were just like, be careful around cows.
Could you explain? I'm pretty sure the U.K. still has trespassing laws . . . I've heard that in Norway, you can't forbid someone access to uncultivated land, but I've never heard of anything similar for any other country.
I'm probably not the right person to ask. It's more complicated than I thought it was. https://www.rowberrymorris.co.uk/site/library/rowberry_morris_news/get-off-my-land-who-has-the-right-to-roam-over-farmland Seems like it's less stringent than US law, but not quite what I was led to believe. When I visited, the stuff I had read made it sound like you could just camp anywhere as long as you didn't make a mess.
As far as I know, things became more stringent some few years ago. At least several backpackers I used to follow on YouTube led me to believe so. I'm not familiar with details though.
Rights of way are a big deal in the UK. Culturally, it's a little like the Second Amendment in the US: you don't mess with rights of way. People will go to great lengths to preserve an ancient right of way across a marsh between two tiny villages. In Scotland, we have a right to roam modelled on Scandinavia, which the rest of the UK doesn't have. As long as you're not interfering with the landowner's use of the land, you can pretty much go anywhere.
I don’t know about England, but in Germany there are thousands of miles of bike and pedestrian paths literally everywhere. You. Can get virtually from anywhere in the country to anywhere else solely by bike path. They are largely paved and have direction signs just like highways. Through Forests, Farm Fields, along rivers, and all through towns. It’s really incredible and encourages you to hop on a bike or go for a walk. And nearly all State and Federal owned land is accessible by anyone.
Scotland has the Right To Roam, which I wish we had across the UK. Beyond that trespass is generally a civil issue and not a criminal one. You cannot assault a person to evict them from your land, and to do so would be as much as crime as it would be on public property.
Yeah, in the US I'd have someone calling the police or threatening me if I was near their cattle, in England, no one gave shit not even the cows, but yeah, I definitely had to watch out for the cow pies.
Likewise, as a man who grew up in England visiting the US with my (then) other half to see her parents was incredibly eye opening. They'd announce we were going down the 'the club' for a meal. Awesome, into the car we pile. Thirty seconds later we arrive. So many journeys were like this, and to my walker's mind it was so bemusing.
Did they have a walkable path to the place? There’s not even a sidewalk from my neighborhood to my kids schools that are a half mile up the same damn road. We used to live a mile and a half away and we couldn’t walk to them then either, because we had a sidewalk until you had to cross a major freeway and then there was a sidewalk on the other side for a few yards and then nothing until you got to the schools. When I visited London, my most favorite part of it was I didn’t need a car for anything. I could walk and if it was far, I could hop on the tube. To have that where we are would be a dream. I also remember it being so clean. I once tried to walk with my son to my parents house when they moved a couple miles away from us and found out that was a waste. The sidewalk that was there was overgrown with brush and then when the brush ended, so did the sidewalk. And then the construction where the whole area up to the curb was dug up. There’s just no safe way to walk or bike. I hate it.
You've reached the end of the free trial for SideWalk, pay your taxes and just maybe we'll see improved infrastructure for SideWalk 2. ^SideWalk ^is ^owned ^by ^AutoMobiles.
I wish the US was more walkable. I used to walk 8 or 12 miles most days when I was living and working in the city. That city wasn't even very walking friendly.
Lots of walkable towns and cities in the North East. I can go months without ever using my car and only drive in the winter to get to the nearby mountains to ski.
That's the way to live. Not many things can give you such clarity of mind.
Get involved in your local city politics. This kind of thing is fixable, and small enough to be do-able.
Halifax, Canada is bad for this too
Thats what happens when a city is exploded and some sidewalks are destroyed 😔
There are plenty of these in the UK. I live in a large town and can think of a handful of them off the top of my head. Also stayed in a small town, maybe village that had basically no pavement anywhere. That was weird.
In britain if a right of way exists it is exceptionally difficult to remove and it shocks me America has no such thing where a person has legal right to walk somewhere. Especially since freedom of movement was something the founding fathers were big on
What? American here, where do you think we can't walk?
Pedestrians have right of way, it’s just not worth the risk because even if you’re “in the right” to be somewhere on a road, if someone else violates that right you are most likely dead or very wounded. Infrastructure and road design needs to encourage that pedestrian right of way, but it doesn’t in most places in America.
We just pay all our money in taxes so they can use it to only build unsustainable car infrastructure that extorts us into spending all of our money plus debt on a car, repairs, maintenance, gas, insurance, etc otherwise we can't travel to things that we need to travel to in order to function in society 🙃 . . . they won't even build sidewalks on a lot of roads
And the only options around this are the very expensive NYC, San Francisco, and Chicago. Even though cities are insanely more efficient and cost effective than suburbs and rural towns. We need more alternatives. And also less restrictive zoning laws
In San Diego this was all over the place. Just absolutely infuriating and insane. Needless to say, I moved back to Canada ASAP. Living in San Diego felt like I was living in uncanny valley city; like an AI designed the city by looking at what cities "look like" and then just sort of throwing a couple of sidewalks around without having an intended purpose
I just moved to San Diego, those sidewalks now have a new purpose ... to house the homeless.
jesus christ that's dark
Sidewalks also end abruptly in Europe lol
Current news : obesity is rising Me: i wonder why
Or when people are all “you drive to the gym to walk on the treadmill?” excuse me what fuckin choice do we have?? Where I used to live I had to walk across 3 peoples’ front lawns to get to a road that wasn’t busy. If I went across even more lawns I reached a sidewalk The new sidewalk-ed stretch of road even had a bike lane! But to get there on my bike I had to get on the busy old main road with low visibility (a turn surrounded by trees right before the sidewalkless stretch I had to venture on)
I think that logic is flawed cause you may want to conserve your energy to give it your all in theh gym. Not everyone goes to gym for health
I agree with you on that too but a lot of front-page redditor types think gyms are relics of the past only stupid people use. But even for those people a gym might be the only way to get decent exercise in car-fucked areas even though they refuse to admit it
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>a similar island I often go on (Noirmoutier) is wayyyyy more bike friendly. Islands are cheating though, because there are more obvious reasons in that case for not wanting to devote precious land space to car infrastructure. There are islands even in the US that either disallow or strongly discourage cars. Block Island in Long Island Sound is an example of the latter.
Privatization of the Commons is a plague on the Earth.
I find this infuriating because… this is a fucking suburban area, why wouldn’t it be completed?!
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Happened to me too while walking in the suburbs outside of Amsterdam, so I don’t think it’s exclusive to America..
> you're European and used to walk everywhere Not just "European". 95% of people in world walk around.
Unfortunately that happens everywhere in Europe too, even in Germany.
It happens in Europe too.
Take me to Europe please, North America cities are boring AF.
Average Portuguese road
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Don't be so harsh with Third World countries. Even if they wear a Gucci belt...
no way, I refuse to belive that I have to see that for myself
When Seattle expanded it's borders north it didn't build out sidewalks into all the neighborhoods there. The city does require new construction to pay for their own sidewalks to be installed, so you'll be walking down a block and there'll be a sidewalk in front of one building and that's it. Owners/developers complain about being saddled with the expense, which is justifiable given just how half-assed the system is.
My wife is from the Philippines and she cannot comprehend how empty my neighborhood is. Her neighborhood back in the Philippines is constantly buzzing with activity. Literally every time you walk outside you see multiple people wandering around. Meanwhile in my neighborhood you can go for a nice one hour walk and not see another soul. She keeps asking me “where is everybody?” And I never really have a great answer.
It seems OP is probably Portuguese by his username, if so it is crazy for him to talk about sidewalks!!!