>Why not use Kazuha instead and heal the party via other means like Prototype Amber or healers/sub DPS like Charlotte? Kazuha will give you grouping, better swirl consistency and a Hydro% DMG buff for both Furina and Neuvillette.
Have you done the TCing to prove this, especially over multiple rotations, and showing how to keep the team's HP up over time?
Jean may not be optimal, but she's still a good choice.
* There's only 1 Kazuha, and he's a highly desired unit. He may not be available. He's on like 6 of my teams right now
* Your assumption is based on the first rotation. After that rotation, without party-wide healing, you won't be able to heal the party up enough for Furina's buff to get stacks. So you need party-wide healing
* Not everyone runs PA on Neuvi (I run his Sig)
* Charlotte is a healing option, but she's not a subDPS. She'll do some, but her damage is minimal.
* If you run Neuvi / Furina / Kazuha / Charlotte, you will get freeze. And you can't apply hydro on frozen enemies, which can make it harder to re-apply VV. And with less reactions going on, Kazuha will do less damage too because he'll swirl hydro or cryo. And freeze itself doesn't do damage.
* Not everyone will pull Charlotte, so she isn't a given
* Jean consolidates healing and VV, even if she's not as optimal as Kazuha for buffs. She does enable better team comps though, so you may net positive, including your original team, which Neuvi, Furina, and Fischl will do a ton of damage, and electro-charged does add up over time
* There are other options too, like Baizhu, though not everyone has him (e.g. I don't have him, nor do I want to pull for him)
* Not everyone will pull Charlotte, so she isn't a given
They're on the same banner. It's true that not everyone will get her, but it's also true not everyone will have Jean (or insert any character here), including some 1.0 players. I have a single copy of Jean in 2.5 years. Not everyone will have X can apply to absolutely any character, so it's academic. A discussion is more useful if we consider all options, not just the ones everyone has (which is no one but in particular 5 star standard characters).
I could be mistaken, but I the overhealing will help, but it won't be enough to fill everyone up
>When the active character in your party receives healing, if the source of the healing is not Furina herself and the healing overflows, then Furina will heal a nearby party member for 2% of their Max HP once every 2s within the next 4s.
Say Fischl has 17,000 HP (around what mine has). If she's at half health, she's at 8,500 HP. If Neuvi is on field and is getting overhealed from Kuki's healing, and Fischl gets Furina's A1 (above). Fischl will get 340 HP once every 2s within the next 4s. So that's 2 ticks, so 780 HP. She'll need 20 total ticks of that to top off. And that's just one character.
So I don't think relying on her A1 overheal passive to top off the whole team will work, at least with this team since Neuvi will be on-field the majority of the time. Though you may get a tick of Kuki's healing or two when you swap around to drop Oz, etc. to help bump up her HP.
That's why I think a team-wide healer will be optimal, but there's only a few in the game right now.
if you are thinking that Kuki’s healing would overflow to another character, then probably not
the overheal is based on the characters’ own max HP%, so it would be more effective to get the heal directly from a healer Kuki
You would get the same overheal regardless of EM or DMG or Healer Kuki.
If you have Jean’s C1, her E actually pulls smaller enemies in and deals more damage. I’ve used it to gather and yeet a whole mob of enemies. You just hold it for a second.
In my experience, yes. The radius of her E explosion is deceptively large. And usually, if there are six or more enemies out at once, they're small fry that either group themselves up, or die in 2 seconds with or without VV shred.
That's only counting the first rotation, By the second one in this team your characters will have -30% HP already, and by the third one the only one who'll be making any significant generation of stacks is Neuvillette.
Now, it's even worse in a team without Neuvillette, since by the third you'll never be getting stacks, but I do agree that for him and his teams specifically, she is overrated and should never be used unless you have no option left.
His best team is probably Furina, Neuv, Kazuha, Baizhu.
Since baizhu can heal the whole team enough and also can use Clam set and provide a little bit of damage, which jean is in fact not the best at
I don't think the 20 to 30 k pops every few seconds is much of a consideration especially when neuvillete likes to keep distance from enemies. I'd much rather have role consolidation with anemo vv shred and healing and free up an additional slot for an extra off field dps to leverage the Furina buff .
Unless you are C2+, forget any dps contribution from Baizhu, and even then its kind of a let down. You need his C6 and a real dps build to make a difference. It looks like this game's healing takes a significant portion of power budget, and baizhu suffers as a result since he heals quite a lot.
Jean's strength is her res shred + heal in one package, if her team cant make use of it she doesnt have much else to offer.
1. Neuv Q
2. Furina EQ
3. Fischl E
4. Jean E (for VV shred)
5. Neuv unga bunga
6. Jean EQ by the end of the rotation to heal everyone to 100% to start new rotation
using kazuha and charlotte instead is great idea, but i want to save kazuha for other teams
Using only Jean's E for swirling Hydro is so scuffed. If there are multiple enemies on the battlefield (such as Rifthounds), you're almost never going to reliably swirl Hydro on all of them.
Bruh you don't even know how swirl works, if you swirl hydro on one enemy that's close to all the other enemies, you are going to get your swirl and VV on everyone
Jean isn't going to be the best option but it's stil a very viable one especially since people will probably have her from loosing 50/50s.
I don't think it's optimal to be running 3 hydros if you plan to use kokomi as a healer
so the only one that's probably better than Jean is baizhu.
Jean’s utility typically comes in the 2ⁿᵈ rotation, like most team-wide healers (for your rotation)
~~And~~ Or you can heal after 1/2 Neuvillette’s CA, which means reapplying VV again
> And you can heal after 1/2 Neuvillette’s CA, which means reapplying VV again
You can't use her burst that soon because it will still be on cooldown. I guess it makes sense that she's stronger in second rotation, but using two Prototype Ambers should be enough to overcome Furina's healing (PA benefits from incoming healing bonus that Furina's burst provides).
I really don’t like that there is so much knockback in her kit… on her E, on her Q 😕 for some people it may be a minor issue, but it’s really annoying to me, I mainly use her against weekly bosses and normal bosses because of that, I don’t remember when I used her in abyss last time
Unrelated but for FT on the whole asspull thing. So despite the explanations behind everything the cast go through, you still call it an asspull. Bias in a nutshell tbh.
Came back here to say having a c6 furina w/ c6 yelan c6 wanderer, even though I have c4 jean making her a technically amazing fit to the team, the team feels AWFUL after replacing jean with my c0 Kazuha.
The grouping and actual damage that kazuha provides is so so so so so so so so sooooo much more enjoyable and consistent to play with than jean whose E ability does next to nothing.
That is all, all opinions are valid. Play who YOU want.
Not worth it to run a healer with neuv c0 after seeing recent calcs, also around the same damage for both options at c1, Jean does however have a slot in Jean furina yelan xq where she’s on field vv atk atk hb just healing with her passive and burst (around 70-80k single target c0 furina and around 100-110k single target c2 furina) 👍
Been using this team with yelan to check it’s usability.
So far the results are very promising.
When Kazu is needed by the other team, Jean is definitely a good substitute.
Rotation 1 is just the start so don’t use her Q there, just use her e to get Neuv’s dmg stack. By rotation 2 her Q will heal and should swirl pretty much all the enemies with hydro.
With full buff, you should be able to clear the floor in two rotations. And even if you couldn’t, you’ll be able to swirl the few left with her e anyway.
You are not wrong. Technically you can always kick support units like Diona, Zhongli, Kirara, from your team and it will be a dps increase in almost all cases. But some people prefer utility over min-maxing.
Many people run Ayaka free without Diona and use Mona + Prototype Amber and some don't because shield provides great utility.
You don't need a healer with neuvillette to get the full stack.
Neuvillette can get 196 stack with 2 ca that's 49% bouns dmg and kazuha give you 40% that's 89%
Let's replace kazuha with Jean. You will have 75% bouns dmg in most of the time, but after 6 seconds, your dmg will drop down because Vv is only active if Jean was on the field. ( this assumption for 2nd rotation)
You can do something like healing furnia when you want to refresh her skill at the end of the rotation.
Neuvillette furina kazuha zhongli will have higher dmg than neuvillette furina jean zhongli.
>Why not use Kazuha instead and heal the party via other means like Prototype Amber or healers/sub DPS like Charlotte? Kazuha will give you grouping, better swirl consistency and a Hydro% DMG buff for both Furina and Neuvillette. Have you done the TCing to prove this, especially over multiple rotations, and showing how to keep the team's HP up over time? Jean may not be optimal, but she's still a good choice. * There's only 1 Kazuha, and he's a highly desired unit. He may not be available. He's on like 6 of my teams right now * Your assumption is based on the first rotation. After that rotation, without party-wide healing, you won't be able to heal the party up enough for Furina's buff to get stacks. So you need party-wide healing * Not everyone runs PA on Neuvi (I run his Sig) * Charlotte is a healing option, but she's not a subDPS. She'll do some, but her damage is minimal. * If you run Neuvi / Furina / Kazuha / Charlotte, you will get freeze. And you can't apply hydro on frozen enemies, which can make it harder to re-apply VV. And with less reactions going on, Kazuha will do less damage too because he'll swirl hydro or cryo. And freeze itself doesn't do damage. * Not everyone will pull Charlotte, so she isn't a given * Jean consolidates healing and VV, even if she's not as optimal as Kazuha for buffs. She does enable better team comps though, so you may net positive, including your original team, which Neuvi, Furina, and Fischl will do a ton of damage, and electro-charged does add up over time * There are other options too, like Baizhu, though not everyone has him (e.g. I don't have him, nor do I want to pull for him)
* Not everyone will pull Charlotte, so she isn't a given They're on the same banner. It's true that not everyone will get her, but it's also true not everyone will have Jean (or insert any character here), including some 1.0 players. I have a single copy of Jean in 2.5 years. Not everyone will have X can apply to absolutely any character, so it's academic. A discussion is more useful if we consider all options, not just the ones everyone has (which is no one but in particular 5 star standard characters).
With overheal, would using kuki built for heals do well? Even gets some extra hp drain stacks for furina, unless it doesn't work that way..?
I could be mistaken, but I the overhealing will help, but it won't be enough to fill everyone up >When the active character in your party receives healing, if the source of the healing is not Furina herself and the healing overflows, then Furina will heal a nearby party member for 2% of their Max HP once every 2s within the next 4s. Say Fischl has 17,000 HP (around what mine has). If she's at half health, she's at 8,500 HP. If Neuvi is on field and is getting overhealed from Kuki's healing, and Fischl gets Furina's A1 (above). Fischl will get 340 HP once every 2s within the next 4s. So that's 2 ticks, so 780 HP. She'll need 20 total ticks of that to top off. And that's just one character. So I don't think relying on her A1 overheal passive to top off the whole team will work, at least with this team since Neuvi will be on-field the majority of the time. Though you may get a tick of Kuki's healing or two when you swap around to drop Oz, etc. to help bump up her HP. That's why I think a team-wide healer will be optimal, but there's only a few in the game right now.
That's a bummer then. I was hoping to keep using Kazuha instead of Jean but maybe experiment with Yaoyao as I don't/won't have Baizhu.
if you are thinking that Kuki’s healing would overflow to another character, then probably not the overheal is based on the characters’ own max HP%, so it would be more effective to get the heal directly from a healer Kuki You would get the same overheal regardless of EM or DMG or Healer Kuki.
If charlotte is on the furina banner then there is a high chance alot of people will have her at high con trying to pull on furina
Why are you using Jean's Q so early?
How are you going to swirl Hydro otherwise?
Her E.
And how will her E hit six or more enemies at the same time?
If you have Jean’s C1, her E actually pulls smaller enemies in and deals more damage. I’ve used it to gather and yeet a whole mob of enemies. You just hold it for a second.
She can even pull in larger enemies like the geo and electro lawachurl if she uses her charged attack to knock them down right beforehand
Finally my C2 Jean will come in handy lol
In my experience, yes. The radius of her E explosion is deceptively large. And usually, if there are six or more enemies out at once, they're small fry that either group themselves up, or die in 2 seconds with or without VV shred.
Why are u coping
Why are U coping
So real
Why do I have c6 Jean?
Me when I don't know how rotation works
Assuming no damage at all from enemies and only one rotation before magically getting topped up to full...
That's only counting the first rotation, By the second one in this team your characters will have -30% HP already, and by the third one the only one who'll be making any significant generation of stacks is Neuvillette. Now, it's even worse in a team without Neuvillette, since by the third you'll never be getting stacks, but I do agree that for him and his teams specifically, she is overrated and should never be used unless you have no option left. His best team is probably Furina, Neuv, Kazuha, Baizhu. Since baizhu can heal the whole team enough and also can use Clam set and provide a little bit of damage, which jean is in fact not the best at
I don't think the 20 to 30 k pops every few seconds is much of a consideration especially when neuvillete likes to keep distance from enemies. I'd much rather have role consolidation with anemo vv shred and healing and free up an additional slot for an extra off field dps to leverage the Furina buff .
Unless you are C2+, forget any dps contribution from Baizhu, and even then its kind of a let down. You need his C6 and a real dps build to make a difference. It looks like this game's healing takes a significant portion of power budget, and baizhu suffers as a result since he heals quite a lot. Jean's strength is her res shred + heal in one package, if her team cant make use of it she doesnt have much else to offer.
1. Neuv Q 2. Furina EQ 3. Fischl E 4. Jean E (for VV shred) 5. Neuv unga bunga 6. Jean EQ by the end of the rotation to heal everyone to 100% to start new rotation using kazuha and charlotte instead is great idea, but i want to save kazuha for other teams
Using only Jean's E for swirling Hydro is so scuffed. If there are multiple enemies on the battlefield (such as Rifthounds), you're almost never going to reliably swirl Hydro on all of them.
Bruh you don't even know how swirl works, if you swirl hydro on one enemy that's close to all the other enemies, you are going to get your swirl and VV on everyone
What abt Sayu? I know it's a bit cope but her e technically has more aoe
She works great as well. Her Q can easily overheal with decent build.
true, this is more useable vs bosses rather than alot of small monsters, if we only had anemo baizhu :(
Jean isn't going to be the best option but it's stil a very viable one especially since people will probably have her from loosing 50/50s. I don't think it's optimal to be running 3 hydros if you plan to use kokomi as a healer so the only one that's probably better than Jean is baizhu.
Jean’s utility typically comes in the 2ⁿᵈ rotation, like most team-wide healers (for your rotation) ~~And~~ Or you can heal after 1/2 Neuvillette’s CA, which means reapplying VV again
> And you can heal after 1/2 Neuvillette’s CA, which means reapplying VV again You can't use her burst that soon because it will still be on cooldown. I guess it makes sense that she's stronger in second rotation, but using two Prototype Ambers should be enough to overcome Furina's healing (PA benefits from incoming healing bonus that Furina's burst provides).
> using two Prototype Ambers should be enough to overcome Furina's healing Not everyone runs PA on Neuvi though
the Dandelion Field lasts for 10s With Furina’s overheal mechanic, it still is possible to heal the team
I really don’t like that there is so much knockback in her kit… on her E, on her Q 😕 for some people it may be a minor issue, but it’s really annoying to me, I mainly use her against weekly bosses and normal bosses because of that, I don’t remember when I used her in abyss last time
With Neuv as the main dps that's not a problem at all, it might be even better for him (no enemies will get close to him this way)
The a lot more you gotta do in this rotation, it only ends when furina's burst ends
This is how I personally would do. furina E> Jean E>Neuvillette E CA Then I start my rotation... furina Q> Flex E Q> Jean E Q> Neuvillette E Q 3 CA
Unrelated but for FT on the whole asspull thing. So despite the explanations behind everything the cast go through, you still call it an asspull. Bias in a nutshell tbh.
Came back here to say having a c6 furina w/ c6 yelan c6 wanderer, even though I have c4 jean making her a technically amazing fit to the team, the team feels AWFUL after replacing jean with my c0 Kazuha. The grouping and actual damage that kazuha provides is so so so so so so so so sooooo much more enjoyable and consistent to play with than jean whose E ability does next to nothing. That is all, all opinions are valid. Play who YOU want.
Yeah, same lol. I use Neuvillette/Furina/Kazuha/Charlotte It feels so much better than Jean variations of his teams.
Kazuha is overrated
Not worth it to run a healer with neuv c0 after seeing recent calcs, also around the same damage for both options at c1, Jean does however have a slot in Jean furina yelan xq where she’s on field vv atk atk hb just healing with her passive and burst (around 70-80k single target c0 furina and around 100-110k single target c2 furina) 👍
Been using this team with yelan to check it’s usability. So far the results are very promising. When Kazu is needed by the other team, Jean is definitely a good substitute. Rotation 1 is just the start so don’t use her Q there, just use her e to get Neuv’s dmg stack. By rotation 2 her Q will heal and should swirl pretty much all the enemies with hydro. With full buff, you should be able to clear the floor in two rotations. And even if you couldn’t, you’ll be able to swirl the few left with her e anyway.
You are not wrong. Technically you can always kick support units like Diona, Zhongli, Kirara, from your team and it will be a dps increase in almost all cases. But some people prefer utility over min-maxing. Many people run Ayaka free without Diona and use Mona + Prototype Amber and some don't because shield provides great utility.
yes male better
You don't need a healer with neuvillette to get the full stack. Neuvillette can get 196 stack with 2 ca that's 49% bouns dmg and kazuha give you 40% that's 89% Let's replace kazuha with Jean. You will have 75% bouns dmg in most of the time, but after 6 seconds, your dmg will drop down because Vv is only active if Jean was on the field. ( this assumption for 2nd rotation) You can do something like healing furnia when you want to refresh her skill at the end of the rotation. Neuvillette furina kazuha zhongli will have higher dmg than neuvillette furina jean zhongli.
Kazuha can't proc VV off field either....
He has 40% bonus elemental dmg👍
So maybe a Sayu burst is enough heal for the team? And her swirl ticks are faster than jean so it can be a good option even if you dont have Jean