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only positive from the long night was not having to see Meera die for Bran after all the bs she went through for him... especially considering the mf did fuck all the whole battle
I agree that's what they *should* do but did they really? That was one of my major griped with the end of the series. In the beginning, there was at least some allusion to military strategy/tactics but they just threw that completely out the window later on.
I haven’t watched in a few years but yeah, I think so. There were clear phases of the plan that theoretically were designed by team Living to best fir their forces to the enemy. They started with the Dothraki charge. The bigger one was the well designed pits- clearly Team Living didn’t suspect they would be able to freeze through that phase.
Just another spot where having read the books I can fill in the gaps in GRRM style. Admittedly that’s not an excuse for D&D
You mean sending your entire light cavalry force (That you shipped, expensively, across the ocean) on a solo charge against a horde of undead where your main goal is to defend walls is a bad strategy?
I woulda warged into Dany. Then been all like "Well, you guys make plans for the battle. I'm really need a bath." Get up from the table and start heading to the bathing room and stop when I realized "Hey, I'm walking! Walk walk walk. Walk walk walk. This is hella cool."
Howland Reed is probably one of the most important characters in the book (though we haven't seen him yet) as he was there at the Tower of Joy and is probably a skin changer or at least has ties with them. So much missed potential for excluding him from the show.
Saying he's the most important character in the books is a real big stretch. His plot is "Crannogmen exist". It is hinted he is sheltering the Brotherhood Without Banners, but they don't even really do anything either.
I haven’t read the books, just read about them. But isn’t he the one person that could confirm Jon’s legitimacy? If so, I’d say that’s pretty important.
I guess, though there's another character in the book called Young Griff, who was smuggled away and is said to be the lost Aegon Targaryen.
Tyrion is also rumored to be a Targaryen, which is a plot thread skipped in the show.
- His hair is described as being close to white, and the law allowed for Aerys to bed Joanna when she visited Kings Landing. Eye color also plays a big part in I&F, and his are mismatched Green and Black.
- Birth defects are really common for the incest line
- There is constant reference to Tywin mentioning Tyrion is not his son, and his hatred is suggested as a sort of red herring, that it isn't because he's a dwarf, but because he literally isn't Tywin's son
- Tyrion, Jon and Dany are all focal points of Dance With Dragons, the books focus heavily on a rule of threes, that dragon riders only ever have one dragon (and vice versa), and all three characters have prophetic dreams in the books.
So, yeah he might show up to confirm Jon's legitimacy, but there's a lot of subtle theories about a lot of characters, and never really a guarantee they get answered.
Another example.. The books also followed a Dornish prince named Quentin who was a rumorer Targaryen too. Literally about 6 PoV chapters about him. He concocts an elaborate plan to heist one of the dragons from their prison and ride it out, with the help of various sellswords..
And it ends with him getting burned alive.
Lady Stoneheart isn't even an important character in the books.
Nor does he really have anything to do with Stannis, and honestly Stannis' entire plot thread is more a vehicle for GRRM to describe winter wartime logistics. He's a side character for making Jon look good.
Isnt Stoneheart one of the few people who can confirm Robb's will that legitamizes Jon? Thats if she can even get the words out and dependent on Jon's lineage being Targaryen in the books which would make Robb's will pointless. Could make for an interesting story, Stoneheart confirms Jon as heir to the North while Reed confirms Jon as heir to the Iron Throne.
Stoneheart is Catelyn Stark and she hates Jon.
And honestly she's been in the books for ages, but has like 0 presence. Maybe she'll be in the next book but her entire plot thread is about revenge on Freys and Lannisters.
I doubt GRRM will even live long enough for her to meet Jon.
>ve from the long night was not having to see Meera die for Bran after all the bs she went through for him...
She would probably would have died alongside Theon
she was literally a glorified Uber driver. if it was up to her she probably would've died w her brother if she knew what bran was going to turn into. Reed's been the unsung heroes since Rob's rebellion
Jamie: *rushes to Bran's side* I'm so sorry, boy. I shouldn't have done that. You're hurt, but we'll address this...*carries Bran back up to the Tower* The things I do again for love...
I remember the first time I watched that scene I gasped. When I did a rewatch I laughed!
Nothing against Isaac Hempstead Wright, I am sure he is a great guy and did the best with what he was handed.
Meera was there for the reunion between Sansa and Bran, so I can only assume they introduced themselves offscreen, and Meera was given a proper thank you. It's also a safe bet that Sansa used to hear about House Reed when Eddard was alive, crediting Howland Reed with having saved him from The Sword of the Morning without going into any details.
Considering she was against the Umber and Karstark seats being given to next of kin rather than those who fought for her and Jon, I'd imagine the new Queen would want to call upon one of the most ancient and loyal families to help keep her throne secure.
I dont think Eddard ever revealed Reed's part in the duel. Bran was shocked to see the events unfold and everyone assumed Ned Stark was the best duelist in the land as a result of rumors. Reed is a real ride or die to let Ned have all the credit though I dont know if I'd want to be known as the guy who backstabbed one of Westero's greatest knights. Better to let my lord have the credit of honorably beating him.
If I remember right, in the books its mentioned when the reeds come that Ned had previously said that he owes his life to Howland (or something along those lines).
The Reeds were the real MVPs, they literally carried Bran to the finish line only for him to become another power monger that used his power to become King... Ridiculous and probably the worse story arc of the whole show.
Well, by the rushed way the show ended, it is implied a lot happened behind the scenes. If we are to accept that everything that happens around Bran was in a way or another "meant to be" (like Theon appearing at a critical moment to save him), that implies that he knows what is going to happen, and his end game always was for him to become King, which goes completely against his character build-up and imho makes him just another power hungry psycopath that manipulates people around him for his own benefit.
Obviously the ending is a cop-out, but... What?
>only for him to become another power monger that used his power to become King...
The show ends with destroying the symbolic power of the throne and he's elected as a king without wanting it.
It is poorly written and on the nose. So it makes it even weirder that you drew the dumbest conclusions?
You understand a "power monger" is someone who manipulates and abuses to get as much power for the sake of it, right? Marching 1000 miles to kill yourself and become a living encyclopedia with no political gain in mind doesn't fall in that wheelhouse.
If you subscribe to the idea that bloodraven uploaded himself into Bran's skinsuit and Bran is either stuck in the weirwood.net or subconsciously warring for control with Bloodraven then there's absolutely an argument to be made that he's a power monger.
He came up with the strategy. Now mush bitch. I think he used all thoes people as a distraction so he could lure in the night king and he knew Arrya would sneak attack him with that dagger. He also didn’t mind letting all those men die so he could become king. He saw it all or saw it all and couldn’t do anything other than what happened anyway.
Not sure if it's what you're referencing, but one running theory if the plot was "correct but actually done well" is that Bran may be something of a "bad guy," in that as the Three Eye'd Raven indeed is just deliberately manipulating events to take over. Novel length treatment by GRRM would much more heavily twist the Others vs Bran, etc, to make it more clear Bran is also pretty sus as a king decision, but also flesh out much better how he manipulated his way into everything happening the way he wanted.
edit: a little elaboration, we got the skeleton of this in the show but not a good version of it, but it's sort of a "fucked three ways" situation:
* the others and endless winter are clearly bad for humanity (Ice) so team up against literally everyone dying.
* Danaerys and the Dragons are debatably bad, we would get a better "Dany turns into a tyrant for real" arc (Fire), ultimately Westeros rejects renewed Targaryen rule.
* Three Eyed Raven/Old Ways looks pretty good in comparison to Ice and Fire, but isn't really all that good for humanity either.
Then again we also have more of a wild card from Euron in the books too.
That's the biggest thing with the last 2-3 seasons of the show. If they had 2-3x more episodes to set up the ending plot lines it probably would have been received well. But you went from have moves/plots/motivations go from being set up in 3-5 scenes over a few episodes to a handful of lines in one scene.
That's what annoys me the most about D&D, they *had* the green light to take the time to flesh it out and they refused because they had Star Wars dollar signs in their eyes. Imagine being the showrunners for fucking *Game of Thrones* and deciding you want to do something else instead
I don't blame them for the story sucking because It's GRRM's story and he can't finish it either, but I do blame them for not even taking the time to try
>I don't blame them for the story sucking because It's GRRM's story and he can't finish it either, but I do blame them for not even taking the time to try
I blame them. If you are a ridiculously successful multi-millionaire with your next payday lined up, there's no excuse for not just saying "I can't do it." They could have stepped aside. People would have grumbled a bit, but that would have been it. Long term, it ould only go well for them. If their replacements do a good job, they'll be respected for getting them to that point and handing it over. If their replacements fail, people would remember D&D's seasons as the good years and there would be no shame in D&D saying that they couldn't have finished George's story either.
Now D&D are just greedy, ego-driven scum. They're already rich enough to not need money, they've got no excuse for taking a job that they know is beyond their ability (finishing ASoIaF for George).
I don't really agree with that. When they took the job they had assurances that the story was fully planned out and they just had to adapt the source material, and they did a fantastic job with that.
They were never supposed to have to invent their own story, and I don't think it's totally fair to them to handwave away George's failure and pin them for having to finish someone else's story
>for having to finish someone else's story
They didn't have to do it, that's the point. If you're a rich contractor building a house based on an architect's incomplete designs, but halfway through the architect quits and someone wants you to do the architect's job, you leave. You don't make your best guesses about structural engineering, you say "I'm unqualified to continue" and then you stop. D&D didn't need the job and their employer changed the requirements mid-way. They could have said "we're unqualified to continue and this isn't what we agreed to." It wasn't like a real-person job where that puts making rent at risk. They don't need to work, and they already had Disney Star Wars money lined up. It certainly wasn't about some ethical need to finish the job either. There's no evidence in the last two seasons that they cared about the story at all.
Those guys were hired to take someone else's story and turn it into television, which they were pretty good at. Then at the end, they were suddenly expected to create the story, which they weren't good at. George doesn't get enough criticism imo.
I totally agree. I bought ADWD the day it came out in 2011. It's been THIRTEEN years.
George has no idea how to land this plane and its pretty unfair to dump on the guys that were tricked into having to come up with it on the fly.
That was typical of her people.
>The crannogmen are a reclusive people who dwell in the swamps of the Neck. They are ruled by House Reed from Greywater Watch. Their current lord is Howland Reed.
[https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Crannogmen](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/crannogmen)
I never read the books but I jumped into a rabbit hole with Meera/Jojen and the Crannogmen. Then, maybe it was supposed to be obvious, but their dad Howland Reed was the dude at the Tower of Joy. How can this NOT all tie in together somehow.
Then I think we see Howland once more, Jojen dies, Meera disappears. A'ight then.
It was supposed to tie in and should with another book, assuming that ever happens. In the books, it's believed that Howland Reed is the only person alive who actually knows of Jon's parentage. But, George has probably written himself into a corner and can't figure out how to pull all of these hundreds of threads together.
I'm not convinced that bran was ever actually supposed to be king, but I will say that if GRRM intended it that way for the books, it would have been a much better arc for how we got there than in the show. And the same goes for dany, cersei, jaime, and countless other characters.
Long theory short, That Meera and Jon snow are twins and they were split up by Ned, howland reed was at the tower of joy with Ned when they were born, they were born on the same date and have a similar appearance descriptions. Here’s [one.](https://www.reddit.com/r/gottheories/comments/b9c5es/meera_reed_is_jon_snows_sister_the_definitive/)
And [another link](https://www.asoiaf-theories.com/meera-reed-jon-snows-twin-theory-sister/) that gives great detail
“My brother died for you.. hodor and summer died for you.. i almost died for you”
i felt so bad for her, she did all of that for him and once he changed he no longer cared about her 🥺.
Exactly. She's still her, and she said from a young age she didn't want to be a lady in a castle. I don't think she's mean to not marry Gendry and live in a castle.
I want to see her spin off of her voyage most!
Except in space where you have helmets that light up the actors faces. Nothing helps with exploring the dark expanse like a light shining directly into your eye
Or riding dragons without gloves.
For a show as expensive as GoT, the snow always looked shockingly fake and there rarely if ever was any frost smoke when talking.
Bran was the worst part in both books and tv show. Most whiny, self-absorbed, annoying, unempathic Stark of all. I pity Bran more in the books because he is taken against his will against the wall, the Reed twins (which were annoying in the books) talking his ear about going there and all. In the show I only pity Bran in first season, but after leaving Winterfell he more and more becomes unbearable. S7-8 is when I just wish Meera dumped his ass to freeze in middle of the George's Antarctica.
Meera was a wonderful, loyal friend to Bran, and of course she deserved better. I believe that Bran's personality was altered (his soul died but his body is still alive) in that cave... His mind now completely belongs to the "Three-Eyed Raven".
I wish Meera would meet a good guy, and she would forget that scary "Three-Eyed Raven". She deserves normal relationship, love and happiness.
Has experience killing White Walkers and is from the North.
Nowhere to be found when White Walkers are attacking the North.
Would have a cool if she was at the King's Moot and Bran said something nice to her.
I feel like Brans whole plot is completely disconnected to the other major characters and story.
Please correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't watched it in a while).... But is this a "Sheldon discussing Indiana Jones" moment.... If Bran just layed in bed the whole time would that have altered the story arc of any of the other major characters?
I've been seeing quite a few posts on the front page from this subreddit despite the show being over for years with much of the fan base leaving due to how horrid the final season was. There's also little engagement on the posts themselves in relation to the number of votes the posts receive. So something tells me there's some kind of manipulation happening here. Wonder if they're trying to generate interest for a new show or something. I would accept it being organic user engagement if I was still seeing posts from free folks, which is where you would typically see these kinds of posts, but nope. Maybe they're trying to embrace how bad the show was and use that to strengthen the GoT brand overall? Is there a new season of the spinoff coming?
It's not just the crafting a sled and dragging him all the fucking way. Bran was paralysed she was having to help him go to the loo the entire way as well.
If you’re gonna blame anyone for this blame Jojen Reed. When they first got to the cave Bloodraven made it clear that Jojen knew his fate and still he did everything in his power to deliver Bran.
He took his sister on a suicide mission and took no regard for her safety since he knew he’d die at the end of it.
I get how he treated her was wrong when she decided to leave but Bran Stark was truly gone and we all knew it. That same kind and giving boy was long gone and he said it “I’m not Bran, not anymore really”
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only positive from the long night was not having to see Meera die for Bran after all the bs she went through for him... especially considering the mf did fuck all the whole battle
Yeah, I was waiting for him to do something with those ravens....and then nothing happened.
I guess bran just kinda forgot...
That three eyed raven always forgetting things...
Whoopsie
"Because who has a better story than Bran?" Arguably any other character...
Forgetting things is *tight*!
Wow wow wow wow... wow.
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He was busy having the best story
Who has a better story of ~~standing~~ sitting idly by than Bran the ~~Bystander~~ Bysitter? edit: bran can't stand for anything I forgot about that.
Was there a point with those ravens that I missed?
He got to see Sam survive 7 different situations he should’ve died from
Lmao 🤣😂
Plot armor can only exist while bran is lollygagging
Fucking this!! XD
Nah he didn't get to see it actually happen, he cut away just before anything bad could happen and came back and everything was fine.
Sam lying on his back randomly stabbing is the ultimate defence
There was a point, but D&D kind of forgot about the ravens.
They serve as scouts. Knowing the position and strength of the enemy forces.
I agree that's what they *should* do but did they really? That was one of my major griped with the end of the series. In the beginning, there was at least some allusion to military strategy/tactics but they just threw that completely out the window later on.
I haven’t watched in a few years but yeah, I think so. There were clear phases of the plan that theoretically were designed by team Living to best fir their forces to the enemy. They started with the Dothraki charge. The bigger one was the well designed pits- clearly Team Living didn’t suspect they would be able to freeze through that phase. Just another spot where having read the books I can fill in the gaps in GRRM style. Admittedly that’s not an excuse for D&D
You mean sending your entire light cavalry force (That you shipped, expensively, across the ocean) on a solo charge against a horde of undead where your main goal is to defend walls is a bad strategy?
I was expecting him to warg into a dragon. Most anti-climactic presence I've ever witnessed.
Expectations SUBVERTED.
Wtf…
I expected that Arya was requesting a specific spear so she could impersonate the Night King.
I was sure there'd be some really cool time travel mindblowing shit, Jamie gets his fire hand and Ned returns to help but no
Whatever happened to bran "flying?" You mean he can be a peeping tom through history, but not warg into a dragon?
He should have warged into one of Dany’s dragons
I woulda warged into Dany. Then been all like "Well, you guys make plans for the battle. I'm really need a bath." Get up from the table and start heading to the bathing room and stop when I realized "Hey, I'm walking! Walk walk walk. Walk walk walk. This is hella cool."
Picture him professor xing it and showing some of the main characters powerful visions from their lives to get them fired up for battle.
Meera read the script for the final season and decided to leave
Wish the whole cast did the same
And told her dad, and that's why Howland never even showed up at the Seven Kingdoms meeting near the end.
Howland Reed is probably one of the most important characters in the book (though we haven't seen him yet) as he was there at the Tower of Joy and is probably a skin changer or at least has ties with them. So much missed potential for excluding him from the show.
But soccer moms and football fans aren't interested in his story.
As soon as they didn’t bring Cat back as a zombie & the disagreement caused GRRM to stop writing for the show, I knew it was all going to go downhill
Saying he's the most important character in the books is a real big stretch. His plot is "Crannogmen exist". It is hinted he is sheltering the Brotherhood Without Banners, but they don't even really do anything either.
I haven’t read the books, just read about them. But isn’t he the one person that could confirm Jon’s legitimacy? If so, I’d say that’s pretty important.
I guess, though there's another character in the book called Young Griff, who was smuggled away and is said to be the lost Aegon Targaryen. Tyrion is also rumored to be a Targaryen, which is a plot thread skipped in the show. - His hair is described as being close to white, and the law allowed for Aerys to bed Joanna when she visited Kings Landing. Eye color also plays a big part in I&F, and his are mismatched Green and Black. - Birth defects are really common for the incest line - There is constant reference to Tywin mentioning Tyrion is not his son, and his hatred is suggested as a sort of red herring, that it isn't because he's a dwarf, but because he literally isn't Tywin's son - Tyrion, Jon and Dany are all focal points of Dance With Dragons, the books focus heavily on a rule of threes, that dragon riders only ever have one dragon (and vice versa), and all three characters have prophetic dreams in the books. So, yeah he might show up to confirm Jon's legitimacy, but there's a lot of subtle theories about a lot of characters, and never really a guarantee they get answered. Another example.. The books also followed a Dornish prince named Quentin who was a rumorer Targaryen too. Literally about 6 PoV chapters about him. He concocts an elaborate plan to heist one of the dragons from their prison and ride it out, with the help of various sellswords.. And it ends with him getting burned alive.
Not *the* most important, but one of them. Also he is definitely important for Lady Stoneheart, Jon, Stannis, etc.
Lady Stoneheart isn't even an important character in the books. Nor does he really have anything to do with Stannis, and honestly Stannis' entire plot thread is more a vehicle for GRRM to describe winter wartime logistics. He's a side character for making Jon look good.
Isnt Stoneheart one of the few people who can confirm Robb's will that legitamizes Jon? Thats if she can even get the words out and dependent on Jon's lineage being Targaryen in the books which would make Robb's will pointless. Could make for an interesting story, Stoneheart confirms Jon as heir to the North while Reed confirms Jon as heir to the Iron Throne.
Stoneheart is Catelyn Stark and she hates Jon. And honestly she's been in the books for ages, but has like 0 presence. Maybe she'll be in the next book but her entire plot thread is about revenge on Freys and Lannisters. I doubt GRRM will even live long enough for her to meet Jon.
>ve from the long night was not having to see Meera die for Bran after all the bs she went through for him... She would probably would have died alongside Theon
she was literally a glorified Uber driver. if it was up to her she probably would've died w her brother if she knew what bran was going to turn into. Reed's been the unsung heroes since Rob's rebellion
Ouch, but true .
marvelous school zonked political label steer nutty unique hat icky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“gotta wrap this character arc up. Sorry bro”
Wow, actually forgot he died there. Weird how I memory-holed that.
Like we saw Ed die for that gluttonous coward Sam
I fw sam heavy but he really could've died during the long night as well. after telling Jon about his lineage his arc was really done
Could have died before, since Jon's lineage was pretty much irrelevant in the end.
And in turn Sam named his kid after Jon, not the guy who saved his life.
"I did exactly what I was supposed to do" - All Seeing MFs
Idk, being bait is at least a little harrowing / honorable
After Jamie shoved him off the tower, he should have gone down, picked him up and thrown him off the tower again.
“And to make this the best deal in Westeros, we’ll double the offer!”
😂😂😂😂
BUT WAIT! There's more!
2 for 1 is twice the fun! Come paralyze yourself and a friend today!
Maester Mays here, with a brand new offer!
Are you tired of not getting enough alone time with your sister?
You're not 'posed to be here Noooobody's 'posed to be here
bei heire*
Bran The Broken? Phhh, Bran The Bloated And Cold is more like it! Yeet
Jamie: *rushes to Bran's side* I'm so sorry, boy. I shouldn't have done that. You're hurt, but we'll address this...*carries Bran back up to the Tower* The things I do again for love...
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would that make him into a living vibrator
Yea this dude pissed me off. Super annoying character
Lmao if someone had told me after seeing that first episode "in the future you're gonna love Jaime, but hate Bran" no way I would have believed them 💀
I remember the first time I watched that scene I gasped. When I did a rewatch I laughed! Nothing against Isaac Hempstead Wright, I am sure he is a great guy and did the best with what he was handed.
For the union makes us strong ❤️🖤
Solidarity forever!
I'd like to think that there is a Stark who remembers House Reed and the Queen in the North will one day call upon Meera.
Someone has to wheel Bran around King's Landing.
My dog will come running (her name is Meera)
Mines Benjen. Vet tech checked to see if his paws were cold. lol
Does she even know who they are?
Meera was there for the reunion between Sansa and Bran, so I can only assume they introduced themselves offscreen, and Meera was given a proper thank you. It's also a safe bet that Sansa used to hear about House Reed when Eddard was alive, crediting Howland Reed with having saved him from The Sword of the Morning without going into any details. Considering she was against the Umber and Karstark seats being given to next of kin rather than those who fought for her and Jon, I'd imagine the new Queen would want to call upon one of the most ancient and loyal families to help keep her throne secure.
I dont think Eddard ever revealed Reed's part in the duel. Bran was shocked to see the events unfold and everyone assumed Ned Stark was the best duelist in the land as a result of rumors. Reed is a real ride or die to let Ned have all the credit though I dont know if I'd want to be known as the guy who backstabbed one of Westero's greatest knights. Better to let my lord have the credit of honorably beating him.
If I remember right, in the books its mentioned when the reeds come that Ned had previously said that he owes his life to Howland (or something along those lines).
The Reeds were the real MVPs, they literally carried Bran to the finish line only for him to become another power monger that used his power to become King... Ridiculous and probably the worse story arc of the whole show.
Surely you jest, for no one has a better story than Bran the Broken
Somebody needs to push his wheelchair down some stairs…
The [Conan O'Brien signal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rcqGBrHDtw&list=PLSYFbhIZUHHQEbPrCyoPawoiXVIooGZgN) has gone up for Paul Rudd . . .
"I don't remember picking that name. Can we go with Bran the Three Eye Raven?"
The Greg Abbott of Westeros
Greg abbot but instead of a tree it's an incestuous brother
Neither of which having the common decency to make sure the job they started is finished 🤦🏻♂️
Are we talking about the tree? Jamie? Or George R R Martin?
Bran is a power monger? Bran used his power to become king? Yeah the arc was ridiculous, but so’s whatever thought process you’ve got going on
Well, by the rushed way the show ended, it is implied a lot happened behind the scenes. If we are to accept that everything that happens around Bran was in a way or another "meant to be" (like Theon appearing at a critical moment to save him), that implies that he knows what is going to happen, and his end game always was for him to become King, which goes completely against his character build-up and imho makes him just another power hungry psycopath that manipulates people around him for his own benefit.
Obviously the ending is a cop-out, but... What? >only for him to become another power monger that used his power to become King... The show ends with destroying the symbolic power of the throne and he's elected as a king without wanting it. It is poorly written and on the nose. So it makes it even weirder that you drew the dumbest conclusions? You understand a "power monger" is someone who manipulates and abuses to get as much power for the sake of it, right? Marching 1000 miles to kill yourself and become a living encyclopedia with no political gain in mind doesn't fall in that wheelhouse.
If you subscribe to the idea that bloodraven uploaded himself into Bran's skinsuit and Bran is either stuck in the weirwood.net or subconsciously warring for control with Bloodraven then there's absolutely an argument to be made that he's a power monger.
TIL Redditors do not understand that words have definitions.
Does turning Hodor’s brain to mush so he will save Bran years later when the walkers come count?
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That's why he'd make the perfect king. Bran the Entitled.
He came up with the strategy. Now mush bitch. I think he used all thoes people as a distraction so he could lure in the night king and he knew Arrya would sneak attack him with that dagger. He also didn’t mind letting all those men die so he could become king. He saw it all or saw it all and couldn’t do anything other than what happened anyway.
Not sure if it's what you're referencing, but one running theory if the plot was "correct but actually done well" is that Bran may be something of a "bad guy," in that as the Three Eye'd Raven indeed is just deliberately manipulating events to take over. Novel length treatment by GRRM would much more heavily twist the Others vs Bran, etc, to make it more clear Bran is also pretty sus as a king decision, but also flesh out much better how he manipulated his way into everything happening the way he wanted. edit: a little elaboration, we got the skeleton of this in the show but not a good version of it, but it's sort of a "fucked three ways" situation: * the others and endless winter are clearly bad for humanity (Ice) so team up against literally everyone dying. * Danaerys and the Dragons are debatably bad, we would get a better "Dany turns into a tyrant for real" arc (Fire), ultimately Westeros rejects renewed Targaryen rule. * Three Eyed Raven/Old Ways looks pretty good in comparison to Ice and Fire, but isn't really all that good for humanity either. Then again we also have more of a wild card from Euron in the books too.
That's the biggest thing with the last 2-3 seasons of the show. If they had 2-3x more episodes to set up the ending plot lines it probably would have been received well. But you went from have moves/plots/motivations go from being set up in 3-5 scenes over a few episodes to a handful of lines in one scene.
That's what annoys me the most about D&D, they *had* the green light to take the time to flesh it out and they refused because they had Star Wars dollar signs in their eyes. Imagine being the showrunners for fucking *Game of Thrones* and deciding you want to do something else instead I don't blame them for the story sucking because It's GRRM's story and he can't finish it either, but I do blame them for not even taking the time to try
>I don't blame them for the story sucking because It's GRRM's story and he can't finish it either, but I do blame them for not even taking the time to try I blame them. If you are a ridiculously successful multi-millionaire with your next payday lined up, there's no excuse for not just saying "I can't do it." They could have stepped aside. People would have grumbled a bit, but that would have been it. Long term, it ould only go well for them. If their replacements do a good job, they'll be respected for getting them to that point and handing it over. If their replacements fail, people would remember D&D's seasons as the good years and there would be no shame in D&D saying that they couldn't have finished George's story either. Now D&D are just greedy, ego-driven scum. They're already rich enough to not need money, they've got no excuse for taking a job that they know is beyond their ability (finishing ASoIaF for George).
I don't really agree with that. When they took the job they had assurances that the story was fully planned out and they just had to adapt the source material, and they did a fantastic job with that. They were never supposed to have to invent their own story, and I don't think it's totally fair to them to handwave away George's failure and pin them for having to finish someone else's story
>for having to finish someone else's story They didn't have to do it, that's the point. If you're a rich contractor building a house based on an architect's incomplete designs, but halfway through the architect quits and someone wants you to do the architect's job, you leave. You don't make your best guesses about structural engineering, you say "I'm unqualified to continue" and then you stop. D&D didn't need the job and their employer changed the requirements mid-way. They could have said "we're unqualified to continue and this isn't what we agreed to." It wasn't like a real-person job where that puts making rent at risk. They don't need to work, and they already had Disney Star Wars money lined up. It certainly wasn't about some ethical need to finish the job either. There's no evidence in the last two seasons that they cared about the story at all.
Those guys were hired to take someone else's story and turn it into television, which they were pretty good at. Then at the end, they were suddenly expected to create the story, which they weren't good at. George doesn't get enough criticism imo.
I totally agree. I bought ADWD the day it came out in 2011. It's been THIRTEEN years. George has no idea how to land this plane and its pretty unfair to dump on the guys that were tricked into having to come up with it on the fly.
and then they fucked it so hard they lost the star wars
I don’t know what anyone else thought. I thought it was either predestined and he knew it or he helped create the best probability for him.
What are you talking about????? This community will never be happy unless Jon Snow+Dany are King Queen! /s
> Then again we also have more of a wild card from Euron in the books too Yeah but in the show we got a finger in the bum
Wtf happened to Meera Reed? She just disappeared completely after rescuing Bran and returning him to Winterfell.
D&D kinda forgot about Meera Reed
> D&D kinda forgot about ~~Meera Reed~~ the plot of game of thrones
That was typical of her people. >The crannogmen are a reclusive people who dwell in the swamps of the Neck. They are ruled by House Reed from Greywater Watch. Their current lord is Howland Reed. [https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Crannogmen](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/crannogmen)
I never read the books but I jumped into a rabbit hole with Meera/Jojen and the Crannogmen. Then, maybe it was supposed to be obvious, but their dad Howland Reed was the dude at the Tower of Joy. How can this NOT all tie in together somehow. Then I think we see Howland once more, Jojen dies, Meera disappears. A'ight then.
[удалено]
kinda feels like you were building to something, you list two options, then go off on a complete tangent that has nothing to do with anything
Proof that he really DOES get ASOIAF.
It was supposed to tie in and should with another book, assuming that ever happens. In the books, it's believed that Howland Reed is the only person alive who actually knows of Jon's parentage. But, George has probably written himself into a corner and can't figure out how to pull all of these hundreds of threads together. I'm not convinced that bran was ever actually supposed to be king, but I will say that if GRRM intended it that way for the books, it would have been a much better arc for how we got there than in the show. And the same goes for dany, cersei, jaime, and countless other characters.
I literally had a tinfoil theory that meera and Jon were bro and sis. Like Ned took Jon and gave Meera to Howland. Whatever……
she's a swamp people??
Do you think she’d want to come back to help Bran again when she’s been so disrespected?
Is that what happened in the show? I can’t even remember
IIRC she left after calling Bran cold and not the same person anymore.
There was a show? Didn't it just kind of end after Arya got stabbed and thrown into a river but was fine? Or did I just stop watching...
Always liked the theory, that she was Jon snow’s twin.
Fucking what?
Long theory short, That Meera and Jon snow are twins and they were split up by Ned, howland reed was at the tower of joy with Ned when they were born, they were born on the same date and have a similar appearance descriptions. Here’s [one.](https://www.reddit.com/r/gottheories/comments/b9c5es/meera_reed_is_jon_snows_sister_the_definitive/) And [another link](https://www.asoiaf-theories.com/meera-reed-jon-snows-twin-theory-sister/) that gives great detail
Amazing - what a truly better twist than any of the garbage we got in Season 6.
Has it only been 4 years??
But it's only revealed after they fall for each other.
I hope they end up falling for each other in the books.
jon: daenarys we can't do this we are blood related. noooo! jon has to kill d. jon: guess i hav ta marry that reed girl
“My brother died for you.. hodor and summer died for you.. i almost died for you” i felt so bad for her, she did all of that for him and once he changed he no longer cared about her 🥺.
I would have liked to see a budding romance arc between them on their journey, but then Bran turned out to become a prick so never-mind all that.
So did Aria.
But that's not her. I think Aria's situation is different.
If you go by what the show characters literally said, Bran is no longer Bran but Arya is still Arya.
Exactly. She's still her, and she said from a young age she didn't want to be a lady in a castle. I don't think she's mean to not marry Gendry and live in a castle. I want to see her spin off of her voyage most!
Oh, you were disagreeing with the psychopath part. She cooks people into pies and threatens to cut her sister’s face off and wear it.
Yeah, that "K THX BYE" was harsh.
Every narcissist ever preying on helpful people
Resting Bran Face.
Never go full bran.
Yeah, Bran is a jerk
The lack of head/face protection as they hike through the blizzard-like conditions always slightly irked me
That's just TV. Nobody wears a helmet
Except nameless mooks that will probably die soon.
Except in space where you have helmets that light up the actors faces. Nothing helps with exploring the dark expanse like a light shining directly into your eye
Or riding dragons without gloves. For a show as expensive as GoT, the snow always looked shockingly fake and there rarely if ever was any frost smoke when talking.
HotD made me rethink so much about GoT and dragon riding, how is Dany staying out on Drogon at all??
Bran was the worst part in both books and tv show. Most whiny, self-absorbed, annoying, unempathic Stark of all. I pity Bran more in the books because he is taken against his will against the wall, the Reed twins (which were annoying in the books) talking his ear about going there and all. In the show I only pity Bran in first season, but after leaving Winterfell he more and more becomes unbearable. S7-8 is when I just wish Meera dumped his ass to freeze in middle of the George's Antarctica.
Meera deserved to be Queen
💯
He truly was the worst
Meera was a wonderful, loyal friend to Bran, and of course she deserved better. I believe that Bran's personality was altered (his soul died but his body is still alive) in that cave... His mind now completely belongs to the "Three-Eyed Raven". I wish Meera would meet a good guy, and she would forget that scary "Three-Eyed Raven". She deserves normal relationship, love and happiness.
Has experience killing White Walkers and is from the North. Nowhere to be found when White Walkers are attacking the North. Would have a cool if she was at the King's Moot and Bran said something nice to her.
When you could tell the story was going to shit
\#Justice4Meera
We all deserved better
Related complaint, Jojen Reed’s death in the show was ridiculous garbage. Like bro just stand up.
Also, some of the wonkiest CG the show gave us.
They could have at least acknowledged the Jojen-Paste theory.
Meera should’ve been like: “I think we have one more stop, hop on the wheelbarrow.” And then wheelbarrow him off the nearest cliff
why was this ai-upscaled instead of just taking a better screenshot
I feel like Brans whole plot is completely disconnected to the other major characters and story. Please correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't watched it in a while).... But is this a "Sheldon discussing Indiana Jones" moment.... If Bran just layed in bed the whole time would that have altered the story arc of any of the other major characters?
it's been almost five whole years my dudes, it's time to move on
Jesus Christ fuck management they are lazy worthless losers who leech of the hard work of others, they never improve anything but turn over.
I've been seeing quite a few posts on the front page from this subreddit despite the show being over for years with much of the fan base leaving due to how horrid the final season was. There's also little engagement on the posts themselves in relation to the number of votes the posts receive. So something tells me there's some kind of manipulation happening here. Wonder if they're trying to generate interest for a new show or something. I would accept it being organic user engagement if I was still seeing posts from free folks, which is where you would typically see these kinds of posts, but nope. Maybe they're trying to embrace how bad the show was and use that to strengthen the GoT brand overall? Is there a new season of the spinoff coming?
House of the Dragon Season 2 is supposed to premier this August.
Oh, definitely, I still can't believe she didn't come back and that was it. "You've been a great help, bye buddy."
Meera was done dirty by Bran (and the show in general). She was one of the biggest heroes of the whole show.
People still talk about this shit?
Shoulda called him Raisin Bran...that's about how much flavor the character has in later seasons
Raisin Bran helps you shit, Bran the Broken is shit. Big difference.
honestly that's pretty stupid, like you know she's pulling you right?
Dumb and dumber at it again.
The actor who plays Bran seems like a nice enough fellow. But the character is ughhhhhh
“Who is a better lazy cunt than Bran The Broken?”
Perfect meme.
thats like a husband saying that birthing a child is easy.
It's not just the crafting a sled and dragging him all the fucking way. Bran was paralysed she was having to help him go to the loo the entire way as well.
If you’re gonna blame anyone for this blame Jojen Reed. When they first got to the cave Bloodraven made it clear that Jojen knew his fate and still he did everything in his power to deliver Bran. He took his sister on a suicide mission and took no regard for her safety since he knew he’d die at the end of it. I get how he treated her was wrong when she decided to leave but Bran Stark was truly gone and we all knew it. That same kind and giving boy was long gone and he said it “I’m not Bran, not anymore really”