I actually use it proudly, but I’m Swedish. It hasn’t really become a slur here for some reason. But the alphabet mafia sounds way cooler. I kinda also use that as well, as well as the gay mafia.
I've never heard it as a slur, and a lot of the community around me refers to themselves as the alphabet mafia. It's probably a regional thing. This is a very accepting area with a huge community, so some things seem to be a bit different.
For most people it’s just easier to say queer than each letter individually. Some people (typically older people) may not like it, as it used to mean weird/strange before it was adopted by us.
Also, alphabet community is usually used by conservatives as a way of making fun of us
It's not that it used to mean "weird/strange," it's that it was used as a slur for decades. Smear the Queer was a very common game on school playgrounds where one kid would essentially get beaten up on. It may not have carried the same weight as the f slur did, but it was close.
Yes, it has been reclaimed now, but for some, its history can't be erased and it's important to respect that. If someone doesn't like to be referred to as queer, then don't call them queer.
Queer is an umbrella term covering all the LGBTQIA plus umbrella. It comes from the meaning of the word that infers "out of the ordinary."
Some people don't like the term. I'm one of many who prefer it. I find it useful because I fit into multiple categories in the umbrella, and it allows me to bypass having to explain to strangers everything about my gender and sexuality. It gives me a bit of privacy.
The q in the alphabet is for questioning individuals...people who don't know if they're straight, bi, or gay or Trans or cis. Having the journey of self discovery is valid and should be normalized so we include them.
Ah I finally got it ! It makes a lot of senses actually. It's true that its a journey for everybody. So that's why they told me that every gay is queer.
It's because it's changed a few times. Queer is an old slur for gay people that's been reclaimed as an umbrella term for anyone that isn't hetero. From my memory before the + or AI or any other bits were added to lgbtq, q ment queer (I.E. Everything else). Around about when the + and that started to get added the q morphed into meaning questioning, because now the + means everything else. Least that's my memory of it all.
It definitely stands for queer, not questioning... Some people prefer to identify with queer because they don't neatly fit into any of the other letters.
I’m gay and I hate the word queer because of its long history as an anti-gay slur. Many other gay men feel the same way. Whoever decided to “reclaim” the word queer and use it as an “umbrella term” either didn’t consider or didn’t care about the implication the word queer has for a lot of gay men.
Agreed. It's a vile term. I do not and will not use it. I stick with LGBT+ for this reason.
The q-word was incredibly offensive in the UK in the '70s and '80s.
It never became a slur in Sweden. We started borrowing it after lgbtqia+ rights were more or less accepted, so here it’s only a positive word as far as I know.
I have been noticing str8 people appropriating the word queer as a fashion trend. Not living a queer life at all.Maybe just wearing nail polish and liking to chase women in gay clubs.
The literal meaning of the word queer is strange or odd, that’s how it came to be used as an anti-gay slur. The word queer is still offensive to a lot of gay men, so it’s pretty dumbfounding that it came to be used as an “umbrella term.”
To add some caution, as I mentioned above, experiences are not universal across the English-speaking world, in England (and UK as whole) queer is fine to use, in the US it would seem to not be so, at least according to Reddit.
Nah, people in the US are fine with queer. I’m in CA and everyone uses it. I think it’s generational, and maybe also regional. Many older gay men who had it used as a slur against them are the ones against it having been reclaimed, while younger generations don’t have that negative association and only identity it as a positive word now.
Interesting, because I must confess it was an assumption on my part purely from the reaction of other Redditors in this sub. I'm very much not young and have no issue with it at all.
No, it's not fine at all in the UK. It depends on who you are speaking to, their age, and their lived experiences. I would not be at all happy being referred to as it.
It’s more like a double victory for the haters. Queer is still used as an anti-gay slur, so it hasn’t been “reclaimed,” and now it’s also a source of harassment for gay men from others within the community who don’t care how gay men feel about it.
It never ceases to amaze me when I read a comment like that from someone who doesn't understand the difference between the word gay itself and the misuse of the word gay as a pejorative.
It doesn't surprise me that you don't understand my answer when you don't understand the difference between the word gay itself and the misuse of the word gay as a pejorative.
It never ceases to amaze me when I read a comment like that from someone who doesn't understand the difference between the word gay itself and the misuse of the word gay as a pejorative.
Still is among the older generation. Youngsters are trying to reclaim it but it still has offensive connotations to anyone who's been called it by a homophobic bigot.
Is it “youngsters” trying to reclaim it when queer has been used in academic contexts for decades and reclamation in some form has been going on for as long as well?
I have seen it used in literature and it absolutely baffles me, especially when the author is of an age when it was such a hateful term. A book that I am reading at the moment has it liberally used throughout and I find it quite depressing. I almost have to swallow my pride each time it appears.
This and the f word , I just feel uncomfortable because people used to made fun of us back then , “reclaim” or not I still don’t feel comfortable using it on ourselves
I understand and respect your point, but for me, I never heard queer being used as an insult or slur, while I heard it a lot with gay, that's why I personally prefer the term queer (but I would never use for someone who doesn't like the word queer of course).
I think quite the opposite happened. Of course people who decided to reclaim it considered the weight it came with. But the only way to remove that weight and de-weaponise those who use it as a slur is to remove its ability to offend. What better way to do that than to proudly and openly identify with the slur word and strip the negative connotation from it when you use it for yourself?
Well I have no control over whether someone will try to offend me by screaming “queer” to my face. But I will tell you that because of what I have decided that word means for me, and because I myself use it for myself, they can scream it all they like and it will never sound offensive to my ears. It will always just be reaffirming of my belonging to the group I proudly belong to. The message back to them is that yes, I am queer and it’s pretty cool being queer so I’m not sure what you’re on about. That is all that I can control and so that is how I will reclaim my control.
How is it a source of harassment from people within the community?
It's not as easy for some folks to decide to simply change the way a word affects them, especially when you consider their history with the word. I'm glad you were able to, but to speak about it as if it is some easy thing everyone should be able to do doesn't reflect the reality for many people.
It took me a while to become okay with the word being used to describe me. I only really accepted it because I did want a word that could be used to describe an entire spectrum of sexual and gender identities. Still, I wish a different word had been chosen.
I'm lucky enough that the people in my life never used that word to describe me, even if they used it to describe themselves, because they understood I was uncomfortable with it. Some folks don't take that approach. There are individuals within the LGBTQIA+ community who feel uncomfortable with that word, the same way I feel with the f slur. And sometimes, they get harassed by others within the community for not liking it, or they get called it anyway. Maybe this is coming from a place of trying to help them, but at the end of the day, we have to respect the wishes of others.
I have gay friends who hate being called queer, so I won't call them that and try to avoid using the term around them. And at the same time, they don't tell me I can't use that word to describe myself. That's how it should be done, but it isn't always done that way.
Well I am not saying that working on yourself and on your trauma response is equally easy for all. All I said was that it is the one thing within your control. I agree that you should be free to not use it for yourself and it should not be forced upon you. Frankly, I have never in my life witnessed people in the community bullying others with this word but I accept that would be harassment, if it happened. However, we have to be able to agree that just how you are free to choose to always see this word as offensive, even when it is very clearly used in a non-offensive way by your own people, if you thought that approach was productive for you, others should be free to choose to de-weaponise it and identify with it, if they can do so with pride. :)
For the same reason other reclaimed words are offensive to older generations. We lived in a time when it was highly offensive and encountered it on a daily basis.
I think people should be respectful if your response to that word is triggering such a strong trauma response, and it should never be forced upon you. However, us owning it and identifying ourselves with it hardly meets the standard for harassment. We should be able to do so if we see that as the way forward for ourselves and our mental health, and if we see it as productive towards the goal of deweaponising the word. The need for respect of boundaries goes both ways here.
I believe we are a species with highly plastic brains and we can learn and unlearn when we need to. We can understand the nuances between another gay person using the word in a reclaimed capacity and a bully screaming it at us, and understanding one is harassment and the other not, we should be able to respond appropriately.
Racial slurs (the N word is the main example of course) have absolutely been reclaimed by racial minorities outside of music. Of course there are people resisting it. It is a process. The more resistance people put, the longer the process will take. I believe it is in our collective interest to heal from the trauma it’s had on past generations and work together to wipe the meaning out of it for the future. It will not erase the history. But we do not need to continue carrying the pain and hurt in our language to remember.
I found a pretty good wiki article on the topic that addresses it as the process it really is and it’s timebound nature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation
It's a source of harassment within the community because gay men get trolled, harassed, and downvoted when they speak out against the word queer. You may have been able to redefine the word queer for yourself but there are a lot of gay men who still have strong negative feelings about that word and who get treated with disrespect from others within the community for speaking out about it.
I had not witnessed that myself until you mentioned it above but if that happens it is also not right. I think we need to accept that the process to reclaim it will not stop, similar to what has happened with other slur words. However, for as long as there are people who are sensitive to it, everyone else needs to be patient and respectful. Similarly, there may be a point for you in accepting that many are now happy to identify with it and as long as they don’t push it aggressively on you there may be nothing to speak out against.
The problem with the concept of reclaiming is that it’s a philosophical argument that I don’t buy into. Queer is still used as an anti-gay slur. The other problem is that the literal meaning of queer is strange or odd. Homosexuality is a naturally occurring human phenomenon that has been around since the beginning of time. There’s nothing queer about it nor was it considered queer until religion made an issue out of it. Queer is not a word I identify with and it doesn’t represent who I am as a gay man.
Unfortunately, those of us who don’t like the word queer get trolled and harassed by others in the community in every discussion like this. Younger members of the community, in particular, seem to be more into hurling insults than into being respectful and understanding. [This comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/gay/comments/1bc0vtp/comment/kuglx21/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) is a good example of that.
Yeah this comment is a good example of how not to act. I’m with you on that (he got my downvote). But I truly think people like that are a minority in the community and are probably generally assholes outside of the context of this debate. I’m probably still on the younger side of the community and I see no problem with you not accepting “queer” for yourself. I can also fully understand how the fact you have probably suffered a lot more from that word than I have influences your feelings and decisions here.
I wouldn’t have reduced reclamation to a philosophical argument living in the theoretical realm only though. It is a very well documented process in sociolinguistics. I found a semi-decent wiki article on it last night that seems to be well referenced too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation
I appreciate your thoughtful answer. The literal meaning of the word queer is also an issue for me, as I explained, and others have voiced the same sentiment in the many discussions I’ve participated in on this topic. I think the adoption of queer as an “umbrella term” was an unfortunate mistake on the part of whoever decided to make that decision on behalf of all of us.
Well the reality with these processes in society is that no one person made that decision for all, right? No one person in the community has that power and influence. So it can’t have just been some hysterically ignorant person screwing us all with it. :D The most likely truth is that a sufficiently large mass of people in the community one by one agreed it was a good idea, for it to become so common. That is no excuse to disrespect the other mass of people who still feel hurt by it.
Always been curious about this. Because growing up it was something that was so offensive to say. I’m not that old but the current high schoolers seem to use it to identify so strongly. Still makes me really uncomfortable to say. 😖
That's the problem. Some anonymous group somewhere decided to "reclaim" the word queer and promote it as an "umbrella term" even though they don't represent all of us. They go after young LGBT people to indoctrinate them into their ideology and cultivate an attitude of disrespect towards anyone within the community who isn't on board with it.
That's the problem. Some anonymous group somewhere decided to "reclaim" the word queer and promote it as an "umbrella term" even though they don't represent all of us. They go after young LGBT people to indoctrinate them into their ideology and cultivate an attitude of disrespect towards anyone within the community who isn't on board with it.
That's the problem. Some anonymous group somewhere decided to "reclaim" the word queer and promote it as an "umbrella term" even though they don't represent all of us. They go after young LGBT people to indoctrinate them into their ideology and cultivate an attitude of disrespect towards anyone within the community who isn't on board with it.
We've had this exact discussion before, and I thought it was maybe a US thing, but now I'm starting to wonder if this is more a you thing?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/gay/comments/1awuwxw/comment/krk842m/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/gay/comments/1awuwxw/comment/krk842m/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Like I've said to you previously, gay was as a slur when I was young but I do not begrudge it being claimed. I have no idea why you're so vehemently opposed to others reclaiming queer to the point where you attack them as if your experience is universal and we should all follow your lead. And that intolerance, is what is wrong with you.
Gay is not a slur and never has been. You still don't understand the difference between the word gay itself and the misuse of the word gay as a pejorative. The word queer hasn't been "reclaimed" because it's still used as a slur.
I'm opposed to those within the community who've decided that they're entitled to speak on behalf of all of us when they don't represent all of us. A lot of gay men don't like the casual use of the word queer, I'm far from the only one. All you have to do is read through this discussion and others like it to see that.
Queer was used to mean gay, trans, intersex, whatever because to cis-het people of the mid 20th century it was all the same. Queer is now just an umbrella term for gay, lesbian, bi, trans and ace people. Mostly I think people use it because they sit in two of more categories and it's easier to use
Queer is an old word, originally meaning strange, odd, slightly sick. At some point it started being used as a word for designate gay people, mostly negatively.
Nowadays it is being reclaimed by parts of the community. I mainly see it used as a way to reject the norm. I am queer because I embrace my difference from the heteronormative society, neither better nor worse, just different. I recognise that people don't need to use the word to reject the norm, and that for some it can be hurtful.
In the end, being gay is what I am, being queer is why I fight.
If I understood clearly with all the coms, I can say that queer is a legacy word, with all the meanings and the weight that come with it. It's a way of living, a way of thinking.
Kind of, yes. I'm not sure what you mean by "legacy word", most words are old, lots of them have had different meanings across time. Queer is also used as a shorthand for "I don't feel like describing myself to you right now". And that's something I didn't mention in my previous answer, I'll use different words depending on who I'm talking to (and obviously what language I'm using). So be aware of that, you learn what the word means but you also need to learn how to use it.
My basic understanding is:
Queer originally meant different than the usual. It grew as a slur for men who seemed effeminate and the inverse for women.
Recently there's been a push to reclaim the word, and an effort from folks who don't conform to the LGBT parts of the acronym to use the blanket term of Queer to describe themselves.
Today I am proud to be different, to be myself, and to be queer.
You're gonna get different answers from different people.
To me queer is an umbrella term. It's a way to refer to our whole community in one word instead of saying gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, intersex questioning, polyamorous, etc. Etc. Etc.
Other people feel like it's a nebulous term for anyone who is not heterosexual and cisgender but unable or unwilling to be more precise and use a word like gay or bi. The only bone I have to pick with that is that I know a couple of people that describe themselves as queer yet have only ever and say they will only ever be in different sex relationships and those people also have a gender identity that matches their gender assigned at birth. I worry that it's a way for cishet folks to appropriate our community, which is a bit ironic that the word is supposed to refer to anyone who is not cishet.
Lastly, I will say that growing up, I had kids use this word as a slur to refer to me, so it took a long time to accept that we really reclaimed it.
I’m one of the people who wouldn’t use this word to describe myself. Growing in the UK it was always used as a slur against me. Especially when I was in my teens and twenties in 1980’s. It was also word used when I was gay bashed by a group of lads. That said I respect other people who use it and have no problem with them using it for themselves or the community just prefer not to use it myself.
I think most of these people are lying when they tell stories like the one above. They're just most likely conservative or centrists. Likely gay assimilationists. They're lying for very political reasons imo
It sounds like you got your question answered. All I’ll say is that it also matters how it’s used. Saying gay people are “queers” sounds derogatory, and more like how it was used as a slur. Queer is an adjective and describes a person. It’s a noun. “Queer people” or “the queer community” is accepted. “Queers” is not.
I know English isn’t your first language so I just wanted to let you know.
I'm gay and I resent being called queer. It remains an offensive slur and I can only associate it with the horrendous bullying kids had to endure at school. It usually went "you f*ing queer" followed by a punch in the victim's face.
So no, I am not queer. I'm gay.
queer/kwir/*adjective*
1. 1.strange; odd."she had a queer feeling that they were being watched"
2. denoting or relating to a sexual or gender identity that does not correspond to established ideas of [sexuality](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c949d4034829414a&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS866US866&sxsrf=ACQVn0_l2xdzXLaGdDgfCOx4kE7lw3DCMw:1710177522115&q=sexuality&si=AKbGX_onJk-q0LQUYzV7-GRhpJ5DYfa3wWRoztufFpj3Et52gay124otvrWS69r_sOIvVa5iKqkhor-INe3dVIV2BmtciwebxL_qtdZC7ZNCvuWolrXCavY%3D&expnd=1) and gender, especially [heterosexual](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c949d4034829414a&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS866US866&sxsrf=ACQVn0_l2xdzXLaGdDgfCOx4kE7lw3DCMw:1710177522115&q=heterosexual&si=AKbGX_rEkSHdR9ulIQYeh6xSG1UBoZYIfMwGvN1nYsJiJfOovmJ3PABf-UOJvrF7VAAPH3voYFNMW7_FnltPHQ5q8pDXm6sXZwybmReLSuyL-A5fDaqlsFQ%3D&expnd=1) [norms](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c949d4034829414a&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS866US866&sxsrf=ACQVn0_l2xdzXLaGdDgfCOx4kE7lw3DCMw:1710177522115&q=norms&si=AKbGX_qy882wphGEk_Dxwohm5Oan_rWVcC9TKjGd5e3Wp-4K3k0qdNsvXvgBIqp8U7z1WjQFavlRqGc7ujX_-K23__dXknPUig%3D%3D&expnd=1)."queer geek culture has featured gay themes since the 1980s"
3. spoil or [ruin](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c949d4034829414a&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS866US866&sxsrf=ACQVn0_l2xdzXLaGdDgfCOx4kE7lw3DCMw:1710177522115&q=ruin&si=AKbGX_o1kf-QqTkl_gxFsV7N2y1VrCWFcil0HquMCC1PdbbbbqMclYiyPT1-IMR4oPLQKLUFJlhmtH3BdQ7lhJqQ9EmFQmduJQ%3D%3D&expnd=1) (an agreement, event, or situation)."Reg didn't want someone meddling and queering the deal at the last minute"
For many of us older folks “queer” was a derogatory phrase that was used to make our lives miserable. I feared being the subject of “queer bashing” and I was beaten up a couple of times because of it.
Later campaigning groups decided we should take the word into our control and make it our own.
I admire this a great deal and would never ask someone not to use the term but, for me, it will always carry negative feelings and make me feel uncomfortable.
I hope there will be a day when that’s not the case but I fear that may be for those who’ve come after me and my generation.
I identify primarily as a homoflexible man, meaning I am attracted to women on some level, but I am far more attracted to men. I also find myself attracted to non-binary folks pretty regularly. When I don't want to explain all that, or what the word homoflexible means, I will simply refer to myself as gay or queer.
It took me a while to accept the word queer being reclaimed. I'm in my early 30s and grew up in a more conservative and rural part of the USA. Queer was a slur to me growing up. Games of Smear The Queer were still played on elementary school playgrounds. When I was in 7th grade, a former friend of mine decided to tell our entire class I was gay (before I had even figured out I was), and I was ostracized to the point of switching schools the next year. Being gay was not okay or accepted where I was, and queer was a word lobbied at those who didn't fit in to imply that they were gay and were therefore not real people.
When I moved to a more open-minded part of my state, I met a lot of queer friends from all over the spectrum. Trans, non-binary, gay, bi, lesbian, ace, fluid, etc. Several of them were still going through the process of figuring out just where they fit in in the acronym. Just like I was - because identifying as gay never felt accurate, but neither did bi, and I had not yet discovered the term homoflexible. Most of them identified as queer and spoke of the queer community. When I mentioned I didn't like that word, they went out of their way to not use it to describe me and even tried not to use it around me.
I did want a word that could represent everyone in the LGBTQIA+ community, a word I could say I was and just leave it at that. Using the full acronym felt so clinical, and just saying "gay" left so many people out. It took me time, but I did eventually accept the term queer and now happily identify as queer, though I do still often wish we had chosen a less charged word that didn't have the same history.
I also recognize that not everyone, especially gay men who grew up in areas or times that were less accepting, is okay with it. To many people in our community, queer and the f-slur (which I still abhor) represent the last word friends of theirs heard before being murdered or beaten so badly they had to spend time in the hospital. It was one of the words hurled at them as they matched in the streets, trying to get the country to stop ignoring AIDS while their friends died. It was a word used to deny them jobs and housing. It was a word used to kick them out of their family's home. It is a word steeped in levels of trauma the likes of which many people in the younger generation will thankfully never have to experience. This, of course, isn't to say that LGBTQIA+ people today don't experience this kind of trauma, simply that is more rare than it was.
Some people from these eras and areas have been able to reclaim the word. Some haven't. And that is completely okay. Words have power; pretending otherwise is ignorant. I will never refer to my friends who hate the word as queer, and I do my best to not use it around them. It is not my place to tell anyone how they should identify.
It used to be a useful umbrella term for “not cis or not hetero”. And I still occasionally use it to mean that. But so many different people identify as queer now that it has essentially become meaningless. There are lots of cis het ppl who identify as queer now, bc they’re kinky, or polyamorous or asexual, etc. it’s just no longer meaningful. When someone says they’re queer then you’ve essentially learned zero new information about that person.
I am asexual, meaning I do not want to have sex with any gender. I am queer too. My cousin is a gay man and is happily married to his husband he is queer too. I think queer is anyone who is not straight.
Queer to me is a title that gives me space to grow and learn more about myself. Whether is be about my gender identity or my sexuality. The word queer allows me to be myself.
At the time 1959, I heard queer was a word we used to make someone stand out; in my memory, it was directed at males, along with the names Moe and Homo, which is not a flattering term.
I think people's acceptance of queer as an identifier is more of a political flag. Queerness is political in a way simply being LGBT isn't. Choosing to not align yourself or assimilate with cishets is political. A lot of older people don't like it and they say it's for this reason or that, but if you dig into their politics they lean center or center right. People who choose to call themselves queer are primarily if not exclusively left leaning. The reclamation of and political usage of queer comes from leftist queer movements. It's why more conservative older folks don't like it. They're likely assimilationists who were never on board and likely will never be on board with queer liberation.
For me, I generally use it as an umbrella term for any lgbtq+ person
You would say that being queer is just being a member of the alphabet community ?
Yikes. Please never call it the alphabet community
Yeah call it something cool like the Alphabet Mafia. ( Not joking) I love that term.
I saw people talked about it that way on this /r, though it was a common way to call it, sorry.
It’s mostly used as a slur by conservatives.
I actually use it proudly, but I’m Swedish. It hasn’t really become a slur here for some reason. But the alphabet mafia sounds way cooler. I kinda also use that as well, as well as the gay mafia.
I've never heard it as a slur, and a lot of the community around me refers to themselves as the alphabet mafia. It's probably a regional thing. This is a very accepting area with a huge community, so some things seem to be a bit different.
It started from conservatives using it in a derogatory way, but the community has kinda taken it for themselves.
Much like the term queer, incidentally
For most people it’s just easier to say queer than each letter individually. Some people (typically older people) may not like it, as it used to mean weird/strange before it was adopted by us. Also, alphabet community is usually used by conservatives as a way of making fun of us
Not just older, from some countries in particular, I've noticed that those from the USA in particular get "fighty" over it.
It's not that it used to mean "weird/strange," it's that it was used as a slur for decades. Smear the Queer was a very common game on school playgrounds where one kid would essentially get beaten up on. It may not have carried the same weight as the f slur did, but it was close. Yes, it has been reclaimed now, but for some, its history can't be erased and it's important to respect that. If someone doesn't like to be referred to as queer, then don't call them queer.
Bro are you ok 💀
Queer is an umbrella term covering all the LGBTQIA plus umbrella. It comes from the meaning of the word that infers "out of the ordinary." Some people don't like the term. I'm one of many who prefer it. I find it useful because I fit into multiple categories in the umbrella, and it allows me to bypass having to explain to strangers everything about my gender and sexuality. It gives me a bit of privacy.
I see what you mean. But I'm really confused to see the "Q" in the Alphabet if this word cover all the spectrum.
The q in the alphabet is for questioning individuals...people who don't know if they're straight, bi, or gay or Trans or cis. Having the journey of self discovery is valid and should be normalized so we include them.
Ah I finally got it ! It makes a lot of senses actually. It's true that its a journey for everybody. So that's why they told me that every gay is queer.
It's because it's changed a few times. Queer is an old slur for gay people that's been reclaimed as an umbrella term for anyone that isn't hetero. From my memory before the + or AI or any other bits were added to lgbtq, q ment queer (I.E. Everything else). Around about when the + and that started to get added the q morphed into meaning questioning, because now the + means everything else. Least that's my memory of it all.
This is my understanding/memory as well.
GenX here and this is my recollection as well.
It definitely stands for queer, not questioning... Some people prefer to identify with queer because they don't neatly fit into any of the other letters.
I’m gay and I hate the word queer because of its long history as an anti-gay slur. Many other gay men feel the same way. Whoever decided to “reclaim” the word queer and use it as an “umbrella term” either didn’t consider or didn’t care about the implication the word queer has for a lot of gay men.
Agreed. It's a vile term. I do not and will not use it. I stick with LGBT+ for this reason. The q-word was incredibly offensive in the UK in the '70s and '80s.
Gay was the predomiant insult for me (born '06)
It never became a slur in Sweden. We started borrowing it after lgbtqia+ rights were more or less accepted, so here it’s only a positive word as far as I know.
I have been noticing str8 people appropriating the word queer as a fashion trend. Not living a queer life at all.Maybe just wearing nail polish and liking to chase women in gay clubs.
It was a slur ? I'm not an english native so I don't know how to translate this word in my language.
The literal meaning of the word queer is strange or odd, that’s how it came to be used as an anti-gay slur. The word queer is still offensive to a lot of gay men, so it’s pretty dumbfounding that it came to be used as an “umbrella term.”
I understand your point, It's a victory for some and a defeat for others to use a word of the past opponents.
To add some caution, as I mentioned above, experiences are not universal across the English-speaking world, in England (and UK as whole) queer is fine to use, in the US it would seem to not be so, at least according to Reddit.
Nah, people in the US are fine with queer. I’m in CA and everyone uses it. I think it’s generational, and maybe also regional. Many older gay men who had it used as a slur against them are the ones against it having been reclaimed, while younger generations don’t have that negative association and only identity it as a positive word now.
Interesting, because I must confess it was an assumption on my part purely from the reaction of other Redditors in this sub. I'm very much not young and have no issue with it at all.
No, it's not fine at all in the UK. It depends on who you are speaking to, their age, and their lived experiences. I would not be at all happy being referred to as it.
And I don't like "gay" as a term as it was derogatory when I was young, so fill your boots pal.
It’s more like a double victory for the haters. Queer is still used as an anti-gay slur, so it hasn’t been “reclaimed,” and now it’s also a source of harassment for gay men from others within the community who don’t care how gay men feel about it.
The word "gay" is used as a slur and in a derogatory way *far* more often and yet you and the others in your position have no issue with it. Hmm 🤔
It never ceases to amaze me when I read a comment like that from someone who doesn't understand the difference between the word gay itself and the misuse of the word gay as a pejorative.
So you have no answer. Got it.
It doesn't surprise me that you don't understand my answer when you don't understand the difference between the word gay itself and the misuse of the word gay as a pejorative.
It never ceases to amaze me when I read a comment like that from someone who doesn't understand the difference between the word gay itself and the misuse of the word gay as a pejorative.
I mean, so was "gay", so
Gay has never been used as a slur. You're thinking of gay as a pejorative, which is a misuse of the word gay to indicate something lame or bad.
We have incredibly different experiences with "gay" then, because it absolutely was used as a slur in mine.
Still is among the older generation. Youngsters are trying to reclaim it but it still has offensive connotations to anyone who's been called it by a homophobic bigot.
Is it “youngsters” trying to reclaim it when queer has been used in academic contexts for decades and reclamation in some form has been going on for as long as well?
I have seen it used in literature and it absolutely baffles me, especially when the author is of an age when it was such a hateful term. A book that I am reading at the moment has it liberally used throughout and I find it quite depressing. I almost have to swallow my pride each time it appears.
Lol
This and the f word , I just feel uncomfortable because people used to made fun of us back then , “reclaim” or not I still don’t feel comfortable using it on ourselves
I understand and respect your point, but for me, I never heard queer being used as an insult or slur, while I heard it a lot with gay, that's why I personally prefer the term queer (but I would never use for someone who doesn't like the word queer of course).
I think quite the opposite happened. Of course people who decided to reclaim it considered the weight it came with. But the only way to remove that weight and de-weaponise those who use it as a slur is to remove its ability to offend. What better way to do that than to proudly and openly identify with the slur word and strip the negative connotation from it when you use it for yourself?
That has happened, though. Not only is it still used as an anti-gay slur but now it’s also a source of harassment of gay men within the community.
Well I have no control over whether someone will try to offend me by screaming “queer” to my face. But I will tell you that because of what I have decided that word means for me, and because I myself use it for myself, they can scream it all they like and it will never sound offensive to my ears. It will always just be reaffirming of my belonging to the group I proudly belong to. The message back to them is that yes, I am queer and it’s pretty cool being queer so I’m not sure what you’re on about. That is all that I can control and so that is how I will reclaim my control. How is it a source of harassment from people within the community?
It's not as easy for some folks to decide to simply change the way a word affects them, especially when you consider their history with the word. I'm glad you were able to, but to speak about it as if it is some easy thing everyone should be able to do doesn't reflect the reality for many people. It took me a while to become okay with the word being used to describe me. I only really accepted it because I did want a word that could be used to describe an entire spectrum of sexual and gender identities. Still, I wish a different word had been chosen. I'm lucky enough that the people in my life never used that word to describe me, even if they used it to describe themselves, because they understood I was uncomfortable with it. Some folks don't take that approach. There are individuals within the LGBTQIA+ community who feel uncomfortable with that word, the same way I feel with the f slur. And sometimes, they get harassed by others within the community for not liking it, or they get called it anyway. Maybe this is coming from a place of trying to help them, but at the end of the day, we have to respect the wishes of others. I have gay friends who hate being called queer, so I won't call them that and try to avoid using the term around them. And at the same time, they don't tell me I can't use that word to describe myself. That's how it should be done, but it isn't always done that way.
Well I am not saying that working on yourself and on your trauma response is equally easy for all. All I said was that it is the one thing within your control. I agree that you should be free to not use it for yourself and it should not be forced upon you. Frankly, I have never in my life witnessed people in the community bullying others with this word but I accept that would be harassment, if it happened. However, we have to be able to agree that just how you are free to choose to always see this word as offensive, even when it is very clearly used in a non-offensive way by your own people, if you thought that approach was productive for you, others should be free to choose to de-weaponise it and identify with it, if they can do so with pride. :)
For the same reason other reclaimed words are offensive to older generations. We lived in a time when it was highly offensive and encountered it on a daily basis.
I think people should be respectful if your response to that word is triggering such a strong trauma response, and it should never be forced upon you. However, us owning it and identifying ourselves with it hardly meets the standard for harassment. We should be able to do so if we see that as the way forward for ourselves and our mental health, and if we see it as productive towards the goal of deweaponising the word. The need for respect of boundaries goes both ways here. I believe we are a species with highly plastic brains and we can learn and unlearn when we need to. We can understand the nuances between another gay person using the word in a reclaimed capacity and a bully screaming it at us, and understanding one is harassment and the other not, we should be able to respond appropriately.
How do you feel about racial minorities reclaiming words? I see certain reclaimed words in music, but never mainstream.
Racial slurs (the N word is the main example of course) have absolutely been reclaimed by racial minorities outside of music. Of course there are people resisting it. It is a process. The more resistance people put, the longer the process will take. I believe it is in our collective interest to heal from the trauma it’s had on past generations and work together to wipe the meaning out of it for the future. It will not erase the history. But we do not need to continue carrying the pain and hurt in our language to remember. I found a pretty good wiki article on the topic that addresses it as the process it really is and it’s timebound nature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation
It's a source of harassment within the community because gay men get trolled, harassed, and downvoted when they speak out against the word queer. You may have been able to redefine the word queer for yourself but there are a lot of gay men who still have strong negative feelings about that word and who get treated with disrespect from others within the community for speaking out about it.
I had not witnessed that myself until you mentioned it above but if that happens it is also not right. I think we need to accept that the process to reclaim it will not stop, similar to what has happened with other slur words. However, for as long as there are people who are sensitive to it, everyone else needs to be patient and respectful. Similarly, there may be a point for you in accepting that many are now happy to identify with it and as long as they don’t push it aggressively on you there may be nothing to speak out against.
The problem with the concept of reclaiming is that it’s a philosophical argument that I don’t buy into. Queer is still used as an anti-gay slur. The other problem is that the literal meaning of queer is strange or odd. Homosexuality is a naturally occurring human phenomenon that has been around since the beginning of time. There’s nothing queer about it nor was it considered queer until religion made an issue out of it. Queer is not a word I identify with and it doesn’t represent who I am as a gay man. Unfortunately, those of us who don’t like the word queer get trolled and harassed by others in the community in every discussion like this. Younger members of the community, in particular, seem to be more into hurling insults than into being respectful and understanding. [This comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/gay/comments/1bc0vtp/comment/kuglx21/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) is a good example of that.
Yeah this comment is a good example of how not to act. I’m with you on that (he got my downvote). But I truly think people like that are a minority in the community and are probably generally assholes outside of the context of this debate. I’m probably still on the younger side of the community and I see no problem with you not accepting “queer” for yourself. I can also fully understand how the fact you have probably suffered a lot more from that word than I have influences your feelings and decisions here. I wouldn’t have reduced reclamation to a philosophical argument living in the theoretical realm only though. It is a very well documented process in sociolinguistics. I found a semi-decent wiki article on it last night that seems to be well referenced too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation
I appreciate your thoughtful answer. The literal meaning of the word queer is also an issue for me, as I explained, and others have voiced the same sentiment in the many discussions I’ve participated in on this topic. I think the adoption of queer as an “umbrella term” was an unfortunate mistake on the part of whoever decided to make that decision on behalf of all of us.
Well the reality with these processes in society is that no one person made that decision for all, right? No one person in the community has that power and influence. So it can’t have just been some hysterically ignorant person screwing us all with it. :D The most likely truth is that a sufficiently large mass of people in the community one by one agreed it was a good idea, for it to become so common. That is no excuse to disrespect the other mass of people who still feel hurt by it.
Always been curious about this. Because growing up it was something that was so offensive to say. I’m not that old but the current high schoolers seem to use it to identify so strongly. Still makes me really uncomfortable to say. 😖
That's the problem. Some anonymous group somewhere decided to "reclaim" the word queer and promote it as an "umbrella term" even though they don't represent all of us. They go after young LGBT people to indoctrinate them into their ideology and cultivate an attitude of disrespect towards anyone within the community who isn't on board with it.
That's the problem. Some anonymous group somewhere decided to "reclaim" the word queer and promote it as an "umbrella term" even though they don't represent all of us. They go after young LGBT people to indoctrinate them into their ideology and cultivate an attitude of disrespect towards anyone within the community who isn't on board with it.
That's the problem. Some anonymous group somewhere decided to "reclaim" the word queer and promote it as an "umbrella term" even though they don't represent all of us. They go after young LGBT people to indoctrinate them into their ideology and cultivate an attitude of disrespect towards anyone within the community who isn't on board with it.
We've had this exact discussion before, and I thought it was maybe a US thing, but now I'm starting to wonder if this is more a you thing? [https://www.reddit.com/r/gay/comments/1awuwxw/comment/krk842m/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/gay/comments/1awuwxw/comment/krk842m/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
You’re a perfect example of what’s wrong with it.
Like I've said to you previously, gay was as a slur when I was young but I do not begrudge it being claimed. I have no idea why you're so vehemently opposed to others reclaiming queer to the point where you attack them as if your experience is universal and we should all follow your lead. And that intolerance, is what is wrong with you.
Gay is not a slur and never has been. You still don't understand the difference between the word gay itself and the misuse of the word gay as a pejorative. The word queer hasn't been "reclaimed" because it's still used as a slur. I'm opposed to those within the community who've decided that they're entitled to speak on behalf of all of us when they don't represent all of us. A lot of gay men don't like the casual use of the word queer, I'm far from the only one. All you have to do is read through this discussion and others like it to see that.
Conjecture.
It’s not conjecture, it’s fact. I have to assume you’re just trolling at this point.
Queer was used to mean gay, trans, intersex, whatever because to cis-het people of the mid 20th century it was all the same. Queer is now just an umbrella term for gay, lesbian, bi, trans and ace people. Mostly I think people use it because they sit in two of more categories and it's easier to use
Ty for thoses explanations, I understand clearly now. This isnt a word approved by everybody but its an important word for a lot of people !
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A-sexual
Queer is an old word, originally meaning strange, odd, slightly sick. At some point it started being used as a word for designate gay people, mostly negatively. Nowadays it is being reclaimed by parts of the community. I mainly see it used as a way to reject the norm. I am queer because I embrace my difference from the heteronormative society, neither better nor worse, just different. I recognise that people don't need to use the word to reject the norm, and that for some it can be hurtful. In the end, being gay is what I am, being queer is why I fight.
If I understood clearly with all the coms, I can say that queer is a legacy word, with all the meanings and the weight that come with it. It's a way of living, a way of thinking.
Kind of, yes. I'm not sure what you mean by "legacy word", most words are old, lots of them have had different meanings across time. Queer is also used as a shorthand for "I don't feel like describing myself to you right now". And that's something I didn't mention in my previous answer, I'll use different words depending on who I'm talking to (and obviously what language I'm using). So be aware of that, you learn what the word means but you also need to learn how to use it.
I see, it got more complexity that it seems at first. Ty for the explanations, I learnt a lot today, it's really refreshing.
My basic understanding is: Queer originally meant different than the usual. It grew as a slur for men who seemed effeminate and the inverse for women. Recently there's been a push to reclaim the word, and an effort from folks who don't conform to the LGBT parts of the acronym to use the blanket term of Queer to describe themselves. Today I am proud to be different, to be myself, and to be queer.
You're gonna get different answers from different people. To me queer is an umbrella term. It's a way to refer to our whole community in one word instead of saying gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, intersex questioning, polyamorous, etc. Etc. Etc. Other people feel like it's a nebulous term for anyone who is not heterosexual and cisgender but unable or unwilling to be more precise and use a word like gay or bi. The only bone I have to pick with that is that I know a couple of people that describe themselves as queer yet have only ever and say they will only ever be in different sex relationships and those people also have a gender identity that matches their gender assigned at birth. I worry that it's a way for cishet folks to appropriate our community, which is a bit ironic that the word is supposed to refer to anyone who is not cishet. Lastly, I will say that growing up, I had kids use this word as a slur to refer to me, so it took a long time to accept that we really reclaimed it.
I’m one of the people who wouldn’t use this word to describe myself. Growing in the UK it was always used as a slur against me. Especially when I was in my teens and twenties in 1980’s. It was also word used when I was gay bashed by a group of lads. That said I respect other people who use it and have no problem with them using it for themselves or the community just prefer not to use it myself.
In Bedfordshire/Cambridgeshire in the early 80's it was poofta or gay never queer.
I think most of these people are lying when they tell stories like the one above. They're just most likely conservative or centrists. Likely gay assimilationists. They're lying for very political reasons imo
I perfectly understand the pit between the old and the new generation about it, must reminds bad memories.
It sounds like you got your question answered. All I’ll say is that it also matters how it’s used. Saying gay people are “queers” sounds derogatory, and more like how it was used as a slur. Queer is an adjective and describes a person. It’s a noun. “Queer people” or “the queer community” is accepted. “Queers” is not. I know English isn’t your first language so I just wanted to let you know.
I'm gay and I resent being called queer. It remains an offensive slur and I can only associate it with the horrendous bullying kids had to endure at school. It usually went "you f*ing queer" followed by a punch in the victim's face. So no, I am not queer. I'm gay.
queer/kwir/*adjective* 1. 1.strange; odd."she had a queer feeling that they were being watched" 2. denoting or relating to a sexual or gender identity that does not correspond to established ideas of [sexuality](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c949d4034829414a&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS866US866&sxsrf=ACQVn0_l2xdzXLaGdDgfCOx4kE7lw3DCMw:1710177522115&q=sexuality&si=AKbGX_onJk-q0LQUYzV7-GRhpJ5DYfa3wWRoztufFpj3Et52gay124otvrWS69r_sOIvVa5iKqkhor-INe3dVIV2BmtciwebxL_qtdZC7ZNCvuWolrXCavY%3D&expnd=1) and gender, especially [heterosexual](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c949d4034829414a&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS866US866&sxsrf=ACQVn0_l2xdzXLaGdDgfCOx4kE7lw3DCMw:1710177522115&q=heterosexual&si=AKbGX_rEkSHdR9ulIQYeh6xSG1UBoZYIfMwGvN1nYsJiJfOovmJ3PABf-UOJvrF7VAAPH3voYFNMW7_FnltPHQ5q8pDXm6sXZwybmReLSuyL-A5fDaqlsFQ%3D&expnd=1) [norms](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c949d4034829414a&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS866US866&sxsrf=ACQVn0_l2xdzXLaGdDgfCOx4kE7lw3DCMw:1710177522115&q=norms&si=AKbGX_qy882wphGEk_Dxwohm5Oan_rWVcC9TKjGd5e3Wp-4K3k0qdNsvXvgBIqp8U7z1WjQFavlRqGc7ujX_-K23__dXknPUig%3D%3D&expnd=1)."queer geek culture has featured gay themes since the 1980s" 3. spoil or [ruin](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=c949d4034829414a&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS866US866&sxsrf=ACQVn0_l2xdzXLaGdDgfCOx4kE7lw3DCMw:1710177522115&q=ruin&si=AKbGX_o1kf-QqTkl_gxFsV7N2y1VrCWFcil0HquMCC1PdbbbbqMclYiyPT1-IMR4oPLQKLUFJlhmtH3BdQ7lhJqQ9EmFQmduJQ%3D%3D&expnd=1) (an agreement, event, or situation)."Reg didn't want someone meddling and queering the deal at the last minute"
Ty for the trivia !
Queer is a umbrella term that catch all GSD (Gender and sexual diversity).
queer just means not cishetero normative, it's an umbrella term for everyone so the acronym doesn't need 50 letters
I’m gay. I am not queer. To me, there is no word more offensive, no word filled with more hate, than that word. Don’t ever call me queer.
Sorry if I hurted you, I understand clearly now all the meanings of the word.
Anyone not straight
For many of us older folks “queer” was a derogatory phrase that was used to make our lives miserable. I feared being the subject of “queer bashing” and I was beaten up a couple of times because of it. Later campaigning groups decided we should take the word into our control and make it our own. I admire this a great deal and would never ask someone not to use the term but, for me, it will always carry negative feelings and make me feel uncomfortable. I hope there will be a day when that’s not the case but I fear that may be for those who’ve come after me and my generation.
Anything that’s not cisgender or heterosexual
I identify primarily as a homoflexible man, meaning I am attracted to women on some level, but I am far more attracted to men. I also find myself attracted to non-binary folks pretty regularly. When I don't want to explain all that, or what the word homoflexible means, I will simply refer to myself as gay or queer. It took me a while to accept the word queer being reclaimed. I'm in my early 30s and grew up in a more conservative and rural part of the USA. Queer was a slur to me growing up. Games of Smear The Queer were still played on elementary school playgrounds. When I was in 7th grade, a former friend of mine decided to tell our entire class I was gay (before I had even figured out I was), and I was ostracized to the point of switching schools the next year. Being gay was not okay or accepted where I was, and queer was a word lobbied at those who didn't fit in to imply that they were gay and were therefore not real people. When I moved to a more open-minded part of my state, I met a lot of queer friends from all over the spectrum. Trans, non-binary, gay, bi, lesbian, ace, fluid, etc. Several of them were still going through the process of figuring out just where they fit in in the acronym. Just like I was - because identifying as gay never felt accurate, but neither did bi, and I had not yet discovered the term homoflexible. Most of them identified as queer and spoke of the queer community. When I mentioned I didn't like that word, they went out of their way to not use it to describe me and even tried not to use it around me. I did want a word that could represent everyone in the LGBTQIA+ community, a word I could say I was and just leave it at that. Using the full acronym felt so clinical, and just saying "gay" left so many people out. It took me time, but I did eventually accept the term queer and now happily identify as queer, though I do still often wish we had chosen a less charged word that didn't have the same history. I also recognize that not everyone, especially gay men who grew up in areas or times that were less accepting, is okay with it. To many people in our community, queer and the f-slur (which I still abhor) represent the last word friends of theirs heard before being murdered or beaten so badly they had to spend time in the hospital. It was one of the words hurled at them as they matched in the streets, trying to get the country to stop ignoring AIDS while their friends died. It was a word used to deny them jobs and housing. It was a word used to kick them out of their family's home. It is a word steeped in levels of trauma the likes of which many people in the younger generation will thankfully never have to experience. This, of course, isn't to say that LGBTQIA+ people today don't experience this kind of trauma, simply that is more rare than it was. Some people from these eras and areas have been able to reclaim the word. Some haven't. And that is completely okay. Words have power; pretending otherwise is ignorant. I will never refer to my friends who hate the word as queer, and I do my best to not use it around them. It is not my place to tell anyone how they should identify.
It used to be a useful umbrella term for “not cis or not hetero”. And I still occasionally use it to mean that. But so many different people identify as queer now that it has essentially become meaningless. There are lots of cis het ppl who identify as queer now, bc they’re kinky, or polyamorous or asexual, etc. it’s just no longer meaningful. When someone says they’re queer then you’ve essentially learned zero new information about that person.
I am asexual, meaning I do not want to have sex with any gender. I am queer too. My cousin is a gay man and is happily married to his husband he is queer too. I think queer is anyone who is not straight.
Queer to me is a title that gives me space to grow and learn more about myself. Whether is be about my gender identity or my sexuality. The word queer allows me to be myself.
Queer life to me is any gay experience. Anything outside of heteronormativity, gender roles, societal norms towards sexuality, etc.
A bad word. I’m asexual, not q***r.
For me growing up being called that was hateful and hurtful and scary at times. I hate it’s used this way these days.
I always wondered if it came from the german "quer", meaning across. The germans also associated uranus with being gay (or was it another planet?).
At the time 1959, I heard queer was a word we used to make someone stand out; in my memory, it was directed at males, along with the names Moe and Homo, which is not a flattering term.
Not straight and/or not cis
I think people's acceptance of queer as an identifier is more of a political flag. Queerness is political in a way simply being LGBT isn't. Choosing to not align yourself or assimilate with cishets is political. A lot of older people don't like it and they say it's for this reason or that, but if you dig into their politics they lean center or center right. People who choose to call themselves queer are primarily if not exclusively left leaning. The reclamation of and political usage of queer comes from leftist queer movements. It's why more conservative older folks don't like it. They're likely assimilationists who were never on board and likely will never be on board with queer liberation.
As a gay person, I really dislike the term "queer." I'm just like anyone else, with my own likes and pursuits. I'm not different from the norm!
So you always identy as a happy person? Even when you're sad, mad, depressed, scared, etc
I am gay have never been queer and no one should feel free to call me queer, or you just might suddenly find yourself missing some teeth .
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Kick rocks then!