Damn!
That's so sad!
I met a sweet gay guy from there via Instagram about a year ago.
I hope he's gonna be ok! 🤞
If he contacts me again, I'll try to get him in touch with rainbow railroad; hopefully they can help him leave.
Will do.
I found his insta again & asked him in a coded way if he is ok.
I hope he answers🤞
Edit: he answered & claimed that he "saw the light" and became straight again. So while he appreciates me trying to help, he doesn't need help.
He also said that this news is just to "distract the world from what's happening in Palestine."
& then went on a rant about Americans killing Iraqi people.
I told him to message me if he needs to in future; then he said I'm a good person cause I'm "not American" & then that was the end of the conversation.
I hope he isn't just saying that for safety. 🤞
😬🤷♂️
Most US progressive aren't naive about this, they're just in a country where Christian theocrats are a collective threat and since Muslims are also threatened by them they're part of the coalition and demonizing rhetoric against Muslims is part of how the Christian right gains power.
I do agree that progress aren’t clueless, but they are still naive. They believe that they can just pretend the islam is an accepting loving religion, but in fact it’s not. We should call out homophobia across the seas and we should not let them slide for such awful atrocities
Again, the point is utility. Christian theocrats in the US are a threat and Muslim theocrats aren't except in isolated communities because of pure demographics. And the former uses fear of the former "taking over" to gain power. They also use fear of the lgbtq+ community "taking over" when advertising to Muslims.
Being aware of context and what fears are reasonable where isn't letting Muslims off the hook.
As for your other comment, yes using their username (presumably taken in jest) as a justification for transphobia does likely indicate they're far right.
I'm not interested in discussing this with intellectually dishonest people who aren't coming from a place of genuinely trying to improve the safety of lgbtq+ people. It's relatively easy to appear to be right when you're not limited to intellectual consistency. Such conversations are ultimately wasteful as a result.
Bogus. Realistically pluralism is good but has boundaries, there is a spectrum of western liberalism that most left and right wingers fall into in the U.S. Those outside those parameters are allowed to express their opinion but everything should be done to prevent those from gaining power, or prevent those who agree with those values not to immigrate here, whether it’s the communists or the fascists or Islamists, or whoever. The U.S. is purely aligned philosophically, not racially, criticisms aside no country has ever done that before, making the U.S. quite possibly the least discriminatory place to have ever existed, but we need to continue discriminating like we always have, not racially, but ideologically. Threatening this is very very destabilizing. Islamic folks poll far more fundamentalist than any American Christian could ever dream of. Christian countries in the west have proven to be able to adapt, Islamic countries have not. They don’t compromise in their countries yet were expected to do the same for them? When their belief system is inherently uncompromising? Progressives are arrogant enough to believe they understand Islam and the culture surrounding it enough to the point that, even in large numbers, they would be able to adequately integrate them into the west. Or not even integrate, that would see that as chauvinist, and they STILL say that’s feasible. Perhaps the MOST moderate Muslims very slowly over a long period of time can be, but their immigration should be regulated to say the least. They’ve been around a very long time and haven’t changed much for a reason, it’s inherent to the belief system. It’s not racism, it’s WRITTEN, you can find it, right in the Quran, it’s not like the Bible that has a bunch of stories, it’s a series of COMMANDS. It’s totally different.
There are arrogant progressives that don’t believe that a bad culture can be threatening, or that a bad culture is even a thing, that don’t believe cultural integration is necessary, they ONLY look at things through the lens of who they perceived as the most powerful, regardless of how they use their power, good or bad. Case and point Israel-Palestine, I’m not going to state my opinion on it, but what’s certain is that being full stop gung-ho 100% totally supportive of Palestine, merely because they’re the underdogs, is insane.
Probably not a good idea to get into an irrelevent topic to the thread but I will admit my bias in that I do support Israel for the most part. Given the history, the context with how and why the Jews are there (land purchases, antisemitism in Europe, and the Holocaust), how they were treated as soon as they arrived, the series of wars waged on them by several countries, how people were forced to move from their homes because Israel had to be a majority Jewish state to prevent their extermination once the Brits left (who were there only because the ottomans supported Germany in WW1 and collapsed), how Qatar and Iran continues to fund Hamas, how Palestine was never an independent state, how densely populated the area is, how hamas was an elected government, what they did on October 7th, the fact that they’ve neither surrendered nor given up the hostages, how radical the population is in their support of Hamas, I don’t see how in good faith you can call it unjustified or a genocide. What is Israel supposed to do? NOT to mention how much more equitable and fair Israel is to ethnic and religious minorities within their country in comparison. It’s tragic, and innocence is absolutely dying, but i don’t believe there’s evidence in their history to suggest Israel is doing anything other than trying to exist, while the Muslims are the ones wanting to exterminate, I mean the proof is in the pudding, you won’t find hardly any Jews in Muslim countries, while many Muslims live in Israel. Not to mention, acceptance of homosexuality. That to me reveals their actual intent more than anything. Palestine being ill equipped doesn’t change their intent. Surrender and the war is over.
I find progressives find kinship with underdogs more so than ideology. Thats not good to me. Putting all of these arguments to the side, and let’s say we just presume both sides are wrong, which I don’t believe, but fine, the world is better off with Israel running things than the Muslims.
My brother in Christ . Socialism is at the fore front of struggle for all oppressed groups of people , specifically gay rights as well and has been since before any other political or ideological movements. You sound very un educated .
Never heard of Carpenter huh ? Read up there’s many more . Even communist countries like China legalized gay sex way before the US let’s say , Cuba has very comprehensive healthcare programs for the community… Only after it became profitable did the Us start opening up
You’re totally delusional. Bruh you honestly think communist countries were the first to not have gay sex illegal? There are many countries where it was never illegal to begin with, so there was no reason to even legalize it. Gay marriage is litterally illegal in China. First country to legalize gay marriage was the Netherlands. Look at a map, all capitalist western countries that have gay marriage legal. Cubas life expectancy is 73 years and the first country with a universal healthcare system was Norway in 1912 predating the Russian Revolution or any socialist party in Norway. You’re just cherry picking random shit.
Commies didn’t do shit.
Empty buzzwords. Yea the same American imperialists who were at the forefront of decolonization, the creation of the UN, and the inspiration for the EU. Oh yah bud. But yea, like I said, power=imperialist to you folks regardless of how it’s used.
Have you even bothered to read Foucault, Noam Chomsky, Edward Said or Howard Zinn? We’re such a great model for the world that we refuse to ratify the Rome Statute so our own leaders never have to go to the ICC. The UN? It is designed to favour the powerful in the form of the Security Council.
You are not a serious person 😆
Brother….”transphobia”????? Wtf are you smoking rn??? The guy at worst was being rude to her by calling her a femcel. Also you do realize that she is a mtf right??? Because calling her a femcel is inherently saying she is a woman(just not a great kind of woman). (Unless you accidentally thought it was a ftm chat).
Also the commenter you commented at you is right. Most of does crazy Christian nationalist types are looked down upon by most in society. Even other Christians dislike them. The Muslim theocrats however are should probably be more of a priority for us gay because people like us are being killed there(like genuinely killed. Not just bullied or mistreated even though those also suck). We shouldn’t align ourselves with people who would probably kick us off roofs if they had a chance to. They aren’t our allies. [They’re more Christians out here in America that are more accepting to us than the Muslims are in our own country.](https://www.prri.org/research/findings-from-the-2022-american-values-atlas/)
Also before you try to argue that white evangelicals are the most dominant type of Christianity in America: [here’s a study showing white mainline Protestant being the biggest](https://www.prri.org/research/2020-census-of-american-religion/). And people are becoming less religious on top of this too, so the evangelicals are bad but they are not as powerful as y’all make them to be(also most of them aren’t Christian nationalists).
Why do you call this man intelligent dishonest?? You’re the one that dug up his history to deflect his argument, which isn’t really being honest, is it. Bring up the femcel thing is 1) irrelevant to the discussion 2) isn’t transphobic 3) is only serves as an escape from the discussion.
They're overwhelmingly democratic voters, which isn't necessarily progressive but is functionally support for pluralism.
That's a coalition, the point of a coalition is diverse interest groups.
Progressives do not see Islam as a friend to progressivism. Muslims are just part of the big tent coalition of the left bc that's just what tends to happen when your opposition are basically fascist & desperately clinging to undemocratic institutional power.
You just made up something progressives stand for & criticized that, which is one of the most infuriating parts of American style politics (not saying you're American just the tone) because you're refusing to engage in a productive way.
Tell that to the college students who explicitly support Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. The far left hates the West and sides with our enemies, including Islamists.
Are you not aware of what Islamists are…?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism
“Islamism (also often called political Islam) is a religio-political ideology. The advocates of Islamism, also known as "al-Islamiyyun", are dedicated to realizing their ideological interpretation of Islam within the context of the state or society.”
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/muslims-vs-islamists
Seems like you aren’t read up on this enough to be trusted…
>*never has been**, it doesn't matter what bleeding heart naive progressives say
Well that's certainly not true.
During the Islamic Golden age there was a pretty lax stance on homosexuality and there quite a lot of homoerotic poetry from the period.
Meanwhile in Dark Age Europe you'd get burnt at the stake for that
I’ve never understood the leftist embrace of Islam. As a gay man, there is not a single Muslim majority country I would want to live in, and all countries that actively execute people for being gay are Muslim. Islam as a faith seems anti ethical to the foundational principles of the US. I despise Trump, but I’m also not particularly interested in having large numbers of people immigrating from nations and faiths hostile to my existence. (We have enough right wing fundamentalist home grown as it is).
Not our friends, definitely our enemies - but not even our enemies should be discriminated against on the basis of their religion or face the same hate they give us.
There was nothing to fix there, lol, there was no defending them 😂 “definitely our enemies” - removing the word “our” does nothing to change the meaning.
Huge swaths of Judaism and Christianity are LGBT-affirming and welcoming. Non-orthodox Jews, which is about 90% of American Jews, as well as progressive Christian denominations, are highly supportive of gay rights and many of their congregations were performing gay marriages before they were legal in America. There’s no need to be intolerant of all religious people when many of them have no intolerance toward you.
Just because one faction of a Cult that has had numerous schisms has, rather suddenly, decided that homosexuality isn’t a horrible thing, is a rather clear grift. These people still believe that we are going to roast in hell and their “acceptance” is to please their own god so they won’t roast in hell, and to try and get us to convert to their delusions.
Jews don’t try to get anyone to convert and they don’t believe in “roasting in hell”. You sound just as intolerant as the people who hate gays and want to convert us out of it, you just hate religious people and want to convert them out of it instead.
No, it's most definitely not our friend, but there is always hope: [https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/kosovo-promises-to-introduce-same-sex-unions-in-may/](https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/kosovo-promises-to-introduce-same-sex-unions-in-may/)
I also had some quite nice Muslim co-workers, who had no issues with LGBT people as far as I know, so I hope that things will be different as soon as 100 years from now.
Why does discussing Muslim/Islam homophobia always need to come with the “not all” disclaimer? We don’t go out of our way to defend the nice Christians.
Don't get me wrong, as far as I'm concerned all religions could disappear from the face of the Earth and I wouldn't care the slightest. Okay, shinto should remain, they are cool. But the fact is that there are LGBTQ+ people in every religion, and not all of them give up their faith. So I think it's important to let them know that there are open and accepting people even among those who follow their religion.
I don't know about you, but I do see "not all" disclaimers about Christians as well. The difference is that Christianity actually has progressive groups who fully accept and support LGBTQ+ people, and even a significant percentage of people who identify as Christian accept us, so it's kind of a given that not all of them hate us. The Islam is hundreds of years behind Christianity, especially in the Middle East, but imagine how must LGBTQ+ Muslims feel, when they see that even LGBTQ+ people hate them because of their religion. :\\
I feel like if I were gay and born into a predominantly Muslim country then I would probably not be a Muslim anymore, in much the same way that I hate the sects of Christianity in this country who want us dead and would absolutely not identify as any of them, despite having been raised by and around exactly that sort of person.
I agree. I'm not religious, wasn't raised that way, and I don't really understand why would anyone be under the age of, I don't know, 50. But I think it's not really an option not to be Muslim in predominantly Muslim countries, so you would probably have to leave the country first, and not everyone can afford that.
Oh absolutely. I'm sure you would have to continue to pretend to be Muslim until you could get away from there. But what I'm saying is I don't think that any gay Muslims are going to be upset at us for condemning Islam for hating us as they're very much aware how awful it is to them, as well.
Dang, I really love seeing two redditors making separate great points and then coming to a healthy common ground, rather than resorting to awkward (but popcorn-worthy) arguing to defend their egos.
Thanks for displaying your maturities. <3
People still tiptoe with islam because of the shaming and even legal sanctions of "islamophobia".
Which is funny because as of the moment, they're number 2 in population in the world, approaching 2 billion. While Christians stalled at 2.6 billion.
Judaism on the other hand is 16 million.
>We don’t go out of our way to defend the nice Christians.
Speak in your own name. I always do that when any large people group is broadly painted with the same brush.
>a vocal crowd wants us to be racist against people from the middle east and southern asia **because "muslims would kill you"**
but it's not a complete lie, look at Qatar, Iran and Saudi Arabia
And yet as a reminder, even in relatively progressive countries like the UK, we have reliable survey data showing that more than 50% of our our Muslim population want to see the UK criminalise being gay. There are always outliers of course but it's clear that Muslims even in western democracies still as a whole believe in our persecution, despite the religion preaching respect for all.
Yeah, I'm not saying, that we shouldn't have our guards up with Muslims. I'm just saying that we shouldn't deny the possiblity that there are allies among them as well. Speaking of the UK, a couple of weeks ago I was in London, and there were a lot of Muslims on the streets, I guess because of Ramadan, and right across one of their centres where they gathered to pray, there was a rainbow flag hanging from a window. I wonder how they felt about that and if the people who hanged it feel safe there...
Your nice Muslim co-workers would 100% look the other way the moment a worldwide caliphate was instated and the government sends you to jail or hanging for being gay.
The religion is poison and it doesn’t matter how “nice” people act, religion will tell them to act against their own kindness. And when GOD tells you to hate someone or else your eternal soul goes to hell, well, you can guess what a devout Muslim would choose.
I'm a former muslim and my relatives always act nice and accepting around non-muslims when they're a minority overseas and are still super homophobic and against progressive values when they're the majority (in my country).
Which one do you think is their true self? Are they oppressing their hatred towards non-Muslims and gays when they are abroad, or are they just playing a part when they are home, and don't really agree with everything they are supposed to believe in?
Don’t be turkey voting for christmas
Deception (or Taqiyya) is a key concept in that religion and their true intention is revealed once they get in power. It is baked in their theology.
Based on what I've read about taqiyya that's not quite why they would deceive people. But sure, it's possible that they use it for that as well. Anyway, I'm not a fan of letting Muslims migrate to the West without proper background check and documentation, and letting them do whatever they want, because authorities are afraid of consequences.
But I also don't want to live my life afraid of every single Muslim, because then I should be afraid of every stranger on the street, because they might be a right wing lunatic who would beat me up if they knew I was gay. Especially living in a country where the majority of the population is conservative. You can call me naive or an idiot or whatever you want and downvote me, but I'd still rather not give in to hatred, if a person doesn't give me a reason to hate them.
Maybe you're right. I'm really just trying to be empathic towards LGBT muslims and stay somewhere in the middle. But can I ask you how should we deal with Muslims in your opinion? I'm genuinely curious, I'm not trying to be condesending or anything. Because when I hear about gay bashings and killings, whether it's in the West or in Africa or the Middle East, I always think that it's a good thing that I'm not a doctor or surgeon, because I would probably leave anyone to die if I knew they were homophobes, and it kind of scares me.
That is a bit of a different situation. Albanians as a whole aren't too religious, and religion for most is more of a tradition than an actual belief. There are of course people who actively practice religion, as well as extremists, but as we say, there are hogs in every forest. But as a whole, Albanians aren't too religious, and even in Kosovo, where the percentage of practitioners is higher than in Albania, they still aren't as devout as one might think. They are much more observant of muslim holidays and practices, but for a lot of them it is more out of habbit rather than belief.
This is because for Albanians, religion has mostly been for socio-political gains rather than belief, especially since Islam was forcefully imposed on us by the Ottoman Empire, through violence or heavy taxation. To add to that, during Communism, religion was conpletely banned, and while some did practice in secret, many people got detached from religious beliefs, and only observed them as traditions.
If you take middle eastern countries, religion plays a much more prominent role in their daily lives, even influencing ther body of laws, so they have completely different views.
Also, if I am informed correctly, due to a technicality in the wording of marriage laws, same-sex marriages were allowed, since a marriage was referred to as "a union between two people" rather than "a union between a man and a woman", like in Albania.
Islam has nothing to do with it, it's the Iraq government that belongs to Iran, and Iran is taking all the control in Iraq, so, you should find the real reason before sending your judgments, I'm sure that you're a spiteful
It's pretty simple that the prime source of homophobia in countries where Christianity or Islam is the dominant religion is theocrats from whichever is the dominant religion.
Which means the non-dominant one can be a useful ally against the dominant one's theocrats. That's all.
There are Buddhist traditions that consider it "sexual misconduct" which would cause a person to reincarnate in a lower level of existence, but Buddhism in general is far more accepting than Christianity or Islam, as in Buddhists won't try to convert you to heterosexuality or kill you. Whether they accept you or not depends on which traditions and sutras they follow.
It's interesting, though, how Buddhism and Hinduism were more accepting towards homosexuality until they came in contact with Christianity, the Islam or the Brits...
I don’t get gays the can suck dick and believe in Jesus. It just sounds… hypocritical? But I do get it in that I’m sure it’s not easy to give up an afterlife belief, gay or not.
I think lack of science and fear of death are definitely the two biggest motivators for the continued existence of religion. Neither of them are good reasons though. We have the science to explain the material world around us now. It’s not perfect, but it’s demonstrably more true than any religion. And as for fear of death, shouldn’t that motivate you to live your best and most authentic life now rather than rely on hope for a life after death? The former seems more enjoyable than the latter to me at least.
That's a non sequitur.
Being atheist isn't the same as being non-religious. It's just that you can't be atheist and certain religions, like the two biggest religions (third biggest is cool with it though).
Somehow Iraq's law is more humane than Gaza
[Hamas Executes Prominent Commander After Accusations of Gay Sex](https://www.newsweek.com/prominent-hamas-commander-was-executed-after-accusations-gay-sex-432343)
>but then people shouldn't say "queers for palestine".
I'm absolutely baffled at this as well. If you want to support Palestine, go ahead. But why as a queer????? Especially towards a group that is very homophobic??? This makes no sense
Some people acknowledged historical complexity and think that even people who wouldn’t like you shouldn’t face a genocide. Has it occurred to you that thousands of closeted gay people have silently perished in Gaza? Has it occurred to you that the vocal support of western queer people may actually change people’s minds about homosexuality being a sin?
I doubt it. You seem reactionary and honestly not that smart. Go be hateful in a different place.
>If you want to support Palestine, go ahead. But why as a queer????? Especially towards a group that is very homophobic??? This makes no sense
No matter the situation, I am always going to be against genocide. I agree that Islam is horrible to us gays, but that doesn’t mean I am going to wish culturally Muslim folk death and torture just because a chunk of them can’t stand my existence.
>that doesn’t mean I am going to wish culturally Muslim folk death and torture
No one said you can't do this. I'm asking why add the queer label? You don't need to be queer to support Palestine.
>when we all know how queers are treated in palestine 💀
what Iraq has done (15 years of jail) pales in comparison to what Hamas would do to gays if they were fully in power
I think it started more as a rejection of Israeli pinkwashing. Most people I know are very aware of Islam’s inherent homophobia. That doesn’t mean we should allow countries to weaponise lgbt rights to justify/excuse their indiscriminate bombing and violent occupation of someone else’s land.
Saying kids shouldn’t be bombed shouldn’t be a controversial opinion. And it’s certainly not an endorsement of Islam, theocracy, or terrorism, not sure how you came to that conclusion.
… I denounce extremist religious zealots of all faiths, especially of Muslim and Christian backgrounds, I denounce terrorism of all forms, including religious based terrorism, and Hamas are a vile, violent group who are using the oppression of Palestinians to fuel their antisemitism (which is why Netanyahu likes them so much. They’re great at disrupting the peace process).
Palestinians aren’t all Muslims btw, and the idea that supporting Palestine = supporting Islam is an insane straw man
Is that all you wanted or are there more ridiculous things you want me to do? Honestly I’m cringing.
This particular retort doesn’t work anymore. We’re talking about the hypocrisy of being “queer” yet attaching yourself to Islamist movements. The protests are no longer just calling for a ceasefire and saving Palestinian lives. They’ve contained speaches, organizers and figures rallying for the Islamic Revolution and their ideals as it turned the Middle East into an anti-West swamp.
Being gay, I’d never in a million years march alongside these people - for any reason. Sick!
I suspected it. I've read some gays who said that during Gaddagi/Saddam the situation was bad, but today it's just way worse, not only for gays, but for everyone
Not as bad as Libya, but the situation is similar. Iraq is populated by sectarian and ethnic groups and they don’t like each other. Iraqis tolerated Saddam because a ruthless dictator mostly kept people from killing each other. Shortly after he was deposed there was a civil war and hundreds of thousands of people died.
Yes. It got worse after the US toppled the dictatorship, and then worse again after the Arab Spring, but even then they didn't pass laws like this. It took until *now* for anything to happen.
There's obviously some other trigger, but around here we want easy answers only, and definitely no one here is an agb girlie trying to stir shit up, so it was all the Muslims™' fault. 🤷♂️
Wouldn't really say that - Iraq under Saddam was an absolute hellhole where the state was the one doing the terrorising, but somehow everyone has rose-tinted spectacles about that era because Donald Rumsfeld was an incompetent idiot.
Brings new meaning to the “Allah Loves Equality” signs at the Free Palestine protests. As a person raised in a Muslim community, these LGBT people thinking that the Middle East supports them is moronic.
Islam is not even close to normalizing anything related to LGBT people. It’s not even close. Major work needs to be done. They are actually violent towards it.
Buddhist countries like Sri Lanka and Myanmar were colonised by Europeans, which is why homosexuality is still criminalised in those countries. Additionally, the vast majority of Buddhists in my country believe that being homosexual is a karmic result of a sin that you committed in one of your previous lives.
Interesting. But in my country, Muslims and Christians are at the forefront to champion the obstruction of progressive LGBT rights. Ironic when they're minorities themselves.
It was not safe to have relationship or get out of the closet before this stupid law because people would kill without mercy for their false beliefs and the cops won't do shit there's substantial numbers of unsolved murders and crimes out here so I can't see why the fucking government is running more lives for their incompetence. As soon as religion touches politics you can tell the country is going to turn into a shit hole I'm just hoping to get the fuck out of this miserable shit hole next year because I'm so fucking sick of their shit and depressed because I can't see any improvement in any fucking aspect of this country we're just going backwards instead of moving forward.
I'm so sorry to hear that. Once I helped an Iraqi asylum seeker who had to leave the country because his uncle wanted to kill him for being gay and the uncle is part of the Shia militia, so he said he would hunt him wherever he went. The only reason he wasn't dead was because the mother threatened to commit suicide when the uncle wanted to kill him. I wish you luck and all the best!
It's a good thing we spent $3 trillion in taxpayer dollars in this country. Could have been used to give every American free college and free healthcare.
I think i've become too accustomed to just assuming any middle-eastern country is going to a horrible time for gays.
News like these can't surprise anyone, right? However sad and fucked up it is.
Bruv the sky is blue what else is new? Muslim countries ban homosexuality period. No matter how liberal or progressive they claim to be. Just how it is.
I kinda love how based this sub is. Never hold back. But you literally can’t say these comments on other subs? It’s so strange. Reddit is such a mind fuck
It’s moronic to criminalize any sexuality that involves 2+ consenting adults.
It’s also moronic to defend imperialism and genocide just to side with the alternate argument.
Most based comment here. The amount of people using Iraqi law to somehow suggest that Palestinians deserve what’s happening here is absolutely ridiculous.
Yall are aware that gay Muslims exist they just don't subscribe to American individualistic gaga anthems that alot of yall do. Up until the British colonialist expansion that lead to wahabism and scripture purists, many European men including Oscar Wilde often ran away to Morroco and the middle east to have their gay fantasies and community while escaping puritanical European Christianity.
People who just want to justify their own hatred of brown people will never acknowledge historical complexities. It’s sad to see so much of this in this sub specifically.
And I think locking them up in a prison with a whole bunch of other men is really going to be true true punishment seriously maybe not. But I do feel sorry for them. Those beds are hard I bet.
Yet no one mentions Gaza, where Hamas will cut a gay dude's dick off and shove it down his throat before slitting it. Far worse and this shit needs to end. I'm so fed up with Queers for Palestine just for the ignorance and nativité they have of the Middle East.
Be sure to tell your Free Palestine friends about this because Hamas is worse... Hamas hangs LGBTQ from street lights with piano wire to insure decapitation. Remind them if Israel disappeared that the Taliban will control the area... From the River to the Sea LGBT will be killed and that's a fact
My heart breaks for our gay/bi brothers trapped in these hellholes.
why do you call Iraq a hellhole? that's offensive to hellholes!
As a hell hole, I can confirm this is an insult to us
As a demon, I can confirm this is an insult to us too
As an insult, I can confirm this is Iraq to us
As us, I can confirm that this is a demon to Iraq
Saw a twinkish craftsman on a train last year - his T-shirt read "Satan is my sugar daddy" ;)
I’m just a hellhole
Awh man, this is so fucked up.
Damn! That's so sad! I met a sweet gay guy from there via Instagram about a year ago. I hope he's gonna be ok! 🤞 If he contacts me again, I'll try to get him in touch with rainbow railroad; hopefully they can help him leave.
Omg please keep us updated!?? 🙏🏼🥹
Will do. I found his insta again & asked him in a coded way if he is ok. I hope he answers🤞 Edit: he answered & claimed that he "saw the light" and became straight again. So while he appreciates me trying to help, he doesn't need help. He also said that this news is just to "distract the world from what's happening in Palestine." & then went on a rant about Americans killing Iraqi people. I told him to message me if he needs to in future; then he said I'm a good person cause I'm "not American" & then that was the end of the conversation. I hope he isn't just saying that for safety. 🤞 😬🤷♂️
Yet another reminder that Islam is not our friend
>Yet another reminder that Islam is not our friend **never has been**, it doesn't matter what bleeding heart naive progressives say
Most religions are not our friend.
Most US progressive aren't naive about this, they're just in a country where Christian theocrats are a collective threat and since Muslims are also threatened by them they're part of the coalition and demonizing rhetoric against Muslims is part of how the Christian right gains power.
I do agree that progress aren’t clueless, but they are still naive. They believe that they can just pretend the islam is an accepting loving religion, but in fact it’s not. We should call out homophobia across the seas and we should not let them slide for such awful atrocities
Again, the point is utility. Christian theocrats in the US are a threat and Muslim theocrats aren't except in isolated communities because of pure demographics. And the former uses fear of the former "taking over" to gain power. They also use fear of the lgbtq+ community "taking over" when advertising to Muslims. Being aware of context and what fears are reasonable where isn't letting Muslims off the hook. As for your other comment, yes using their username (presumably taken in jest) as a justification for transphobia does likely indicate they're far right. I'm not interested in discussing this with intellectually dishonest people who aren't coming from a place of genuinely trying to improve the safety of lgbtq+ people. It's relatively easy to appear to be right when you're not limited to intellectual consistency. Such conversations are ultimately wasteful as a result.
Bogus. Realistically pluralism is good but has boundaries, there is a spectrum of western liberalism that most left and right wingers fall into in the U.S. Those outside those parameters are allowed to express their opinion but everything should be done to prevent those from gaining power, or prevent those who agree with those values not to immigrate here, whether it’s the communists or the fascists or Islamists, or whoever. The U.S. is purely aligned philosophically, not racially, criticisms aside no country has ever done that before, making the U.S. quite possibly the least discriminatory place to have ever existed, but we need to continue discriminating like we always have, not racially, but ideologically. Threatening this is very very destabilizing. Islamic folks poll far more fundamentalist than any American Christian could ever dream of. Christian countries in the west have proven to be able to adapt, Islamic countries have not. They don’t compromise in their countries yet were expected to do the same for them? When their belief system is inherently uncompromising? Progressives are arrogant enough to believe they understand Islam and the culture surrounding it enough to the point that, even in large numbers, they would be able to adequately integrate them into the west. Or not even integrate, that would see that as chauvinist, and they STILL say that’s feasible. Perhaps the MOST moderate Muslims very slowly over a long period of time can be, but their immigration should be regulated to say the least. They’ve been around a very long time and haven’t changed much for a reason, it’s inherent to the belief system. It’s not racism, it’s WRITTEN, you can find it, right in the Quran, it’s not like the Bible that has a bunch of stories, it’s a series of COMMANDS. It’s totally different. There are arrogant progressives that don’t believe that a bad culture can be threatening, or that a bad culture is even a thing, that don’t believe cultural integration is necessary, they ONLY look at things through the lens of who they perceived as the most powerful, regardless of how they use their power, good or bad. Case and point Israel-Palestine, I’m not going to state my opinion on it, but what’s certain is that being full stop gung-ho 100% totally supportive of Palestine, merely because they’re the underdogs, is insane.
Agree on all points, but just to temper that with some nuance, wanting to prevent the extermination of Palestinians is right.
Probably not a good idea to get into an irrelevent topic to the thread but I will admit my bias in that I do support Israel for the most part. Given the history, the context with how and why the Jews are there (land purchases, antisemitism in Europe, and the Holocaust), how they were treated as soon as they arrived, the series of wars waged on them by several countries, how people were forced to move from their homes because Israel had to be a majority Jewish state to prevent their extermination once the Brits left (who were there only because the ottomans supported Germany in WW1 and collapsed), how Qatar and Iran continues to fund Hamas, how Palestine was never an independent state, how densely populated the area is, how hamas was an elected government, what they did on October 7th, the fact that they’ve neither surrendered nor given up the hostages, how radical the population is in their support of Hamas, I don’t see how in good faith you can call it unjustified or a genocide. What is Israel supposed to do? NOT to mention how much more equitable and fair Israel is to ethnic and religious minorities within their country in comparison. It’s tragic, and innocence is absolutely dying, but i don’t believe there’s evidence in their history to suggest Israel is doing anything other than trying to exist, while the Muslims are the ones wanting to exterminate, I mean the proof is in the pudding, you won’t find hardly any Jews in Muslim countries, while many Muslims live in Israel. Not to mention, acceptance of homosexuality. That to me reveals their actual intent more than anything. Palestine being ill equipped doesn’t change their intent. Surrender and the war is over. I find progressives find kinship with underdogs more so than ideology. Thats not good to me. Putting all of these arguments to the side, and let’s say we just presume both sides are wrong, which I don’t believe, but fine, the world is better off with Israel running things than the Muslims.
My brother in Christ . Socialism is at the fore front of struggle for all oppressed groups of people , specifically gay rights as well and has been since before any other political or ideological movements. You sound very un educated .
Socialists take credit for lots of shit that existed before they did; and ignore all of the things they’re responsible for. Absolute bullshit bud
Never heard of Carpenter huh ? Read up there’s many more . Even communist countries like China legalized gay sex way before the US let’s say , Cuba has very comprehensive healthcare programs for the community… Only after it became profitable did the Us start opening up
You’re totally delusional. Bruh you honestly think communist countries were the first to not have gay sex illegal? There are many countries where it was never illegal to begin with, so there was no reason to even legalize it. Gay marriage is litterally illegal in China. First country to legalize gay marriage was the Netherlands. Look at a map, all capitalist western countries that have gay marriage legal. Cubas life expectancy is 73 years and the first country with a universal healthcare system was Norway in 1912 predating the Russian Revolution or any socialist party in Norway. You’re just cherry picking random shit. Commies didn’t do shit.
Oof what a load of vile Pax Americana orientalist, imperialist horsesh*t. Really disgusting stuff, even for this bigoted group 😆
Empty buzzwords. Yea the same American imperialists who were at the forefront of decolonization, the creation of the UN, and the inspiration for the EU. Oh yah bud. But yea, like I said, power=imperialist to you folks regardless of how it’s used.
Have you even bothered to read Foucault, Noam Chomsky, Edward Said or Howard Zinn? We’re such a great model for the world that we refuse to ratify the Rome Statute so our own leaders never have to go to the ICC. The UN? It is designed to favour the powerful in the form of the Security Council. You are not a serious person 😆
Brother….”transphobia”????? Wtf are you smoking rn??? The guy at worst was being rude to her by calling her a femcel. Also you do realize that she is a mtf right??? Because calling her a femcel is inherently saying she is a woman(just not a great kind of woman). (Unless you accidentally thought it was a ftm chat). Also the commenter you commented at you is right. Most of does crazy Christian nationalist types are looked down upon by most in society. Even other Christians dislike them. The Muslim theocrats however are should probably be more of a priority for us gay because people like us are being killed there(like genuinely killed. Not just bullied or mistreated even though those also suck). We shouldn’t align ourselves with people who would probably kick us off roofs if they had a chance to. They aren’t our allies. [They’re more Christians out here in America that are more accepting to us than the Muslims are in our own country.](https://www.prri.org/research/findings-from-the-2022-american-values-atlas/) Also before you try to argue that white evangelicals are the most dominant type of Christianity in America: [here’s a study showing white mainline Protestant being the biggest](https://www.prri.org/research/2020-census-of-american-religion/). And people are becoming less religious on top of this too, so the evangelicals are bad but they are not as powerful as y’all make them to be(also most of them aren’t Christian nationalists). Why do you call this man intelligent dishonest?? You’re the one that dug up his history to deflect his argument, which isn’t really being honest, is it. Bring up the femcel thing is 1) irrelevant to the discussion 2) isn’t transphobic 3) is only serves as an escape from the discussion.
That “coalition” only exists in your mind. Get real.
They're overwhelmingly democratic voters, which isn't necessarily progressive but is functionally support for pluralism. That's a coalition, the point of a coalition is diverse interest groups.
Progressives do not see Islam as a friend to progressivism. Muslims are just part of the big tent coalition of the left bc that's just what tends to happen when your opposition are basically fascist & desperately clinging to undemocratic institutional power. You just made up something progressives stand for & criticized that, which is one of the most infuriating parts of American style politics (not saying you're American just the tone) because you're refusing to engage in a productive way.
Tell that to the college students who explicitly support Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. The far left hates the West and sides with our enemies, including Islamists.
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Are you not aware of what Islamists are…? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism “Islamism (also often called political Islam) is a religio-political ideology. The advocates of Islamism, also known as "al-Islamiyyun", are dedicated to realizing their ideological interpretation of Islam within the context of the state or society.” https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/muslims-vs-islamists Seems like you aren’t read up on this enough to be trusted…
>*never has been**, it doesn't matter what bleeding heart naive progressives say Well that's certainly not true. During the Islamic Golden age there was a pretty lax stance on homosexuality and there quite a lot of homoerotic poetry from the period. Meanwhile in Dark Age Europe you'd get burnt at the stake for that
I’ve never understood the leftist embrace of Islam. As a gay man, there is not a single Muslim majority country I would want to live in, and all countries that actively execute people for being gay are Muslim. Islam as a faith seems anti ethical to the foundational principles of the US. I despise Trump, but I’m also not particularly interested in having large numbers of people immigrating from nations and faiths hostile to my existence. (We have enough right wing fundamentalist home grown as it is).
Not our friends, definitely our enemies - but not even our enemies should be discriminated against on the basis of their religion or face the same hate they give us.
You cannot tolerate intolerance.
>You cannot tolerate intolerance. Intolerance is aunt Maria asking if I will ever decide to marry a woman. This is straight up state terrorism.
But their discriminating beliefs should be
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There was nothing to fix there, lol, there was no defending them 😂 “definitely our enemies” - removing the word “our” does nothing to change the meaning.
All organised religions hate us by heart, whatever they say. Christianity, islam, and even judaism… we wont ever be tolerated, i’m afraid
Judaism and Christianity have been largely neutered in the western world. Islam is just getting worse.
Correction- none of the abrahamic cults are our friend.
Huge swaths of Judaism and Christianity are LGBT-affirming and welcoming. Non-orthodox Jews, which is about 90% of American Jews, as well as progressive Christian denominations, are highly supportive of gay rights and many of their congregations were performing gay marriages before they were legal in America. There’s no need to be intolerant of all religious people when many of them have no intolerance toward you.
religion is how we got in this mess, abandoning it is how we evolve as a species
Just because one faction of a Cult that has had numerous schisms has, rather suddenly, decided that homosexuality isn’t a horrible thing, is a rather clear grift. These people still believe that we are going to roast in hell and their “acceptance” is to please their own god so they won’t roast in hell, and to try and get us to convert to their delusions.
Jews don’t try to get anyone to convert and they don’t believe in “roasting in hell”. You sound just as intolerant as the people who hate gays and want to convert us out of it, you just hate religious people and want to convert them out of it instead.
No, it's most definitely not our friend, but there is always hope: [https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/kosovo-promises-to-introduce-same-sex-unions-in-may/](https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/kosovo-promises-to-introduce-same-sex-unions-in-may/) I also had some quite nice Muslim co-workers, who had no issues with LGBT people as far as I know, so I hope that things will be different as soon as 100 years from now.
Why does discussing Muslim/Islam homophobia always need to come with the “not all” disclaimer? We don’t go out of our way to defend the nice Christians.
Don't get me wrong, as far as I'm concerned all religions could disappear from the face of the Earth and I wouldn't care the slightest. Okay, shinto should remain, they are cool. But the fact is that there are LGBTQ+ people in every religion, and not all of them give up their faith. So I think it's important to let them know that there are open and accepting people even among those who follow their religion. I don't know about you, but I do see "not all" disclaimers about Christians as well. The difference is that Christianity actually has progressive groups who fully accept and support LGBTQ+ people, and even a significant percentage of people who identify as Christian accept us, so it's kind of a given that not all of them hate us. The Islam is hundreds of years behind Christianity, especially in the Middle East, but imagine how must LGBTQ+ Muslims feel, when they see that even LGBTQ+ people hate them because of their religion. :\\
I feel like if I were gay and born into a predominantly Muslim country then I would probably not be a Muslim anymore, in much the same way that I hate the sects of Christianity in this country who want us dead and would absolutely not identify as any of them, despite having been raised by and around exactly that sort of person.
I agree. I'm not religious, wasn't raised that way, and I don't really understand why would anyone be under the age of, I don't know, 50. But I think it's not really an option not to be Muslim in predominantly Muslim countries, so you would probably have to leave the country first, and not everyone can afford that.
Oh absolutely. I'm sure you would have to continue to pretend to be Muslim until you could get away from there. But what I'm saying is I don't think that any gay Muslims are going to be upset at us for condemning Islam for hating us as they're very much aware how awful it is to them, as well.
Yeah, you're probably right.
Dang, I really love seeing two redditors making separate great points and then coming to a healthy common ground, rather than resorting to awkward (but popcorn-worthy) arguing to defend their egos. Thanks for displaying your maturities. <3
Right? Read this with a smile in my face just because it's rare to see people discuss ideas without turning it into personal and mutual attacks 😅
People still tiptoe with islam because of the shaming and even legal sanctions of "islamophobia". Which is funny because as of the moment, they're number 2 in population in the world, approaching 2 billion. While Christians stalled at 2.6 billion. Judaism on the other hand is 16 million.
>We don’t go out of our way to defend the nice Christians. Speak in your own name. I always do that when any large people group is broadly painted with the same brush.
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>a vocal crowd wants us to be racist against people from the middle east and southern asia **because "muslims would kill you"** but it's not a complete lie, look at Qatar, Iran and Saudi Arabia
Religion is not race.
I'm from middle east and I'm not Muslim. You shouldn't be tolerant of these "nice Muslims" or your country will end up just like ours.
Kosovo and Albania are a very irreligious country though due to their communist history (at one point in Albania they even enforced state atheism).
That's the difference between cultures though. Kosovo might have a more open and accepting culture vs Iraqi's conservative and regressive culture.
Totally, but things can change, even if we probably won't live to see it. Hundreds of years ago Europe was quite similar, and now it's not.
And yet as a reminder, even in relatively progressive countries like the UK, we have reliable survey data showing that more than 50% of our our Muslim population want to see the UK criminalise being gay. There are always outliers of course but it's clear that Muslims even in western democracies still as a whole believe in our persecution, despite the religion preaching respect for all.
Yeah, I'm not saying, that we shouldn't have our guards up with Muslims. I'm just saying that we shouldn't deny the possiblity that there are allies among them as well. Speaking of the UK, a couple of weeks ago I was in London, and there were a lot of Muslims on the streets, I guess because of Ramadan, and right across one of their centres where they gathered to pray, there was a rainbow flag hanging from a window. I wonder how they felt about that and if the people who hanged it feel safe there...
Your nice Muslim co-workers would 100% look the other way the moment a worldwide caliphate was instated and the government sends you to jail or hanging for being gay. The religion is poison and it doesn’t matter how “nice” people act, religion will tell them to act against their own kindness. And when GOD tells you to hate someone or else your eternal soul goes to hell, well, you can guess what a devout Muslim would choose.
I'm a former muslim and my relatives always act nice and accepting around non-muslims when they're a minority overseas and are still super homophobic and against progressive values when they're the majority (in my country).
Which one do you think is their true self? Are they oppressing their hatred towards non-Muslims and gays when they are abroad, or are they just playing a part when they are home, and don't really agree with everything they are supposed to believe in?
Kosovo is going to introduce same-sex unions because they have to if they want to become a member of the EU.
Don’t be turkey voting for christmas Deception (or Taqiyya) is a key concept in that religion and their true intention is revealed once they get in power. It is baked in their theology.
Based on what I've read about taqiyya that's not quite why they would deceive people. But sure, it's possible that they use it for that as well. Anyway, I'm not a fan of letting Muslims migrate to the West without proper background check and documentation, and letting them do whatever they want, because authorities are afraid of consequences. But I also don't want to live my life afraid of every single Muslim, because then I should be afraid of every stranger on the street, because they might be a right wing lunatic who would beat me up if they knew I was gay. Especially living in a country where the majority of the population is conservative. You can call me naive or an idiot or whatever you want and downvote me, but I'd still rather not give in to hatred, if a person doesn't give me a reason to hate them.
You are spending way too much energy defending a people who would have no qualm of having you killed. It is to your own detriment, not mine.
Maybe you're right. I'm really just trying to be empathic towards LGBT muslims and stay somewhere in the middle. But can I ask you how should we deal with Muslims in your opinion? I'm genuinely curious, I'm not trying to be condesending or anything. Because when I hear about gay bashings and killings, whether it's in the West or in Africa or the Middle East, I always think that it's a good thing that I'm not a doctor or surgeon, because I would probably leave anyone to die if I knew they were homophobes, and it kind of scares me.
isn't Kosovo a little bit like Türkiye? in the sense that it's a secular country at least in paper?
More like a little bit of Albania. Kosovo was part of Yugoslavia, so it got a heavy dose of communist-style secularism.
That is a bit of a different situation. Albanians as a whole aren't too religious, and religion for most is more of a tradition than an actual belief. There are of course people who actively practice religion, as well as extremists, but as we say, there are hogs in every forest. But as a whole, Albanians aren't too religious, and even in Kosovo, where the percentage of practitioners is higher than in Albania, they still aren't as devout as one might think. They are much more observant of muslim holidays and practices, but for a lot of them it is more out of habbit rather than belief. This is because for Albanians, religion has mostly been for socio-political gains rather than belief, especially since Islam was forcefully imposed on us by the Ottoman Empire, through violence or heavy taxation. To add to that, during Communism, religion was conpletely banned, and while some did practice in secret, many people got detached from religious beliefs, and only observed them as traditions. If you take middle eastern countries, religion plays a much more prominent role in their daily lives, even influencing ther body of laws, so they have completely different views. Also, if I am informed correctly, due to a technicality in the wording of marriage laws, same-sex marriages were allowed, since a marriage was referred to as "a union between two people" rather than "a union between a man and a woman", like in Albania.
I’ve never had any doubt about that. It is the most toxic of all religions currently.
Islam has nothing to do with it, it's the Iraq government that belongs to Iran, and Iran is taking all the control in Iraq, so, you should find the real reason before sending your judgments, I'm sure that you're a spiteful
It's pretty simple that the prime source of homophobia in countries where Christianity or Islam is the dominant religion is theocrats from whichever is the dominant religion. Which means the non-dominant one can be a useful ally against the dominant one's theocrats. That's all.
Religion👏will👏never👏support👏us👏. Reject god, become gay atheist heathens.
Different religions hate each other but they all hate the gays 😭
Allow me to introduce you to [Tuershen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu%27er_Shen), the Taoist god of gay marriage.
not really, I don't remember hinduism, Buddhism and taoism being against homosexuality.
There are Buddhist traditions that consider it "sexual misconduct" which would cause a person to reincarnate in a lower level of existence, but Buddhism in general is far more accepting than Christianity or Islam, as in Buddhists won't try to convert you to heterosexuality or kill you. Whether they accept you or not depends on which traditions and sutras they follow. It's interesting, though, how Buddhism and Hinduism were more accepting towards homosexuality until they came in contact with Christianity, the Islam or the Brits...
I think you need to be introduced to more religions. Probably learn more about ones you think you know too.
Wicca loves all
I don’t get gays the can suck dick and believe in Jesus. It just sounds… hypocritical? But I do get it in that I’m sure it’s not easy to give up an afterlife belief, gay or not.
I think lack of science and fear of death are definitely the two biggest motivators for the continued existence of religion. Neither of them are good reasons though. We have the science to explain the material world around us now. It’s not perfect, but it’s demonstrably more true than any religion. And as for fear of death, shouldn’t that motivate you to live your best and most authentic life now rather than rely on hope for a life after death? The former seems more enjoyable than the latter to me at least.
That's a non sequitur. Being atheist isn't the same as being non-religious. It's just that you can't be atheist and certain religions, like the two biggest religions (third biggest is cool with it though).
Islam
Queers for Palestine right now 
Somehow Iraq's law is more humane than Gaza [Hamas Executes Prominent Commander After Accusations of Gay Sex](https://www.newsweek.com/prominent-hamas-commander-was-executed-after-accusations-gay-sex-432343)
You can be against the murder of innocent people without endorsing a religion.
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>but then people shouldn't say "queers for palestine". I'm absolutely baffled at this as well. If you want to support Palestine, go ahead. But why as a queer????? Especially towards a group that is very homophobic??? This makes no sense
Some people acknowledged historical complexity and think that even people who wouldn’t like you shouldn’t face a genocide. Has it occurred to you that thousands of closeted gay people have silently perished in Gaza? Has it occurred to you that the vocal support of western queer people may actually change people’s minds about homosexuality being a sin? I doubt it. You seem reactionary and honestly not that smart. Go be hateful in a different place.
>If you want to support Palestine, go ahead. But why as a queer????? Especially towards a group that is very homophobic??? This makes no sense No matter the situation, I am always going to be against genocide. I agree that Islam is horrible to us gays, but that doesn’t mean I am going to wish culturally Muslim folk death and torture just because a chunk of them can’t stand my existence.
>that doesn’t mean I am going to wish culturally Muslim folk death and torture No one said you can't do this. I'm asking why add the queer label? You don't need to be queer to support Palestine.
>when we all know how queers are treated in palestine 💀 what Iraq has done (15 years of jail) pales in comparison to what Hamas would do to gays if they were fully in power
I think it started more as a rejection of Israeli pinkwashing. Most people I know are very aware of Islam’s inherent homophobia. That doesn’t mean we should allow countries to weaponise lgbt rights to justify/excuse their indiscriminate bombing and violent occupation of someone else’s land.
Queerios for Palestine is pinkwashing toxic Islam, theocracy, and terrorism.
Saying kids shouldn’t be bombed shouldn’t be a controversial opinion. And it’s certainly not an endorsement of Islam, theocracy, or terrorism, not sure how you came to that conclusion.
So, let's hear you denounce Islamism, Islamic terrorism, anti-Semitism, and Hamas, right here and right now. Show us your morals.
… I denounce extremist religious zealots of all faiths, especially of Muslim and Christian backgrounds, I denounce terrorism of all forms, including religious based terrorism, and Hamas are a vile, violent group who are using the oppression of Palestinians to fuel their antisemitism (which is why Netanyahu likes them so much. They’re great at disrupting the peace process). Palestinians aren’t all Muslims btw, and the idea that supporting Palestine = supporting Islam is an insane straw man Is that all you wanted or are there more ridiculous things you want me to do? Honestly I’m cringing.
Pinkwashing… Please shut up and take a trip to Israel before you make these idiotic comments.
This particular retort doesn’t work anymore. We’re talking about the hypocrisy of being “queer” yet attaching yourself to Islamist movements. The protests are no longer just calling for a ceasefire and saving Palestinian lives. They’ve contained speaches, organizers and figures rallying for the Islamic Revolution and their ideals as it turned the Middle East into an anti-West swamp. Being gay, I’d never in a million years march alongside these people - for any reason. Sick!
we never wouldve defeated Nazi Germany if we didnt carpet bomb German civilians
People shouldn't be starved, bombed and deprived of medical care regardless of how homophobic they are. I can't believe that needs explaining.
is the situation in Iraq similar to Libya in the sense that everything went from bad to worse after the dictator left/was killed?
Yes
I suspected it. I've read some gays who said that during Gaddagi/Saddam the situation was bad, but today it's just way worse, not only for gays, but for everyone
Not as bad as Libya, but the situation is similar. Iraq is populated by sectarian and ethnic groups and they don’t like each other. Iraqis tolerated Saddam because a ruthless dictator mostly kept people from killing each other. Shortly after he was deposed there was a civil war and hundreds of thousands of people died.
Yes. It got worse after the US toppled the dictatorship, and then worse again after the Arab Spring, but even then they didn't pass laws like this. It took until *now* for anything to happen. There's obviously some other trigger, but around here we want easy answers only, and definitely no one here is an agb girlie trying to stir shit up, so it was all the Muslims™' fault. 🤷♂️
Wouldn't really say that - Iraq under Saddam was an absolute hellhole where the state was the one doing the terrorising, but somehow everyone has rose-tinted spectacles about that era because Donald Rumsfeld was an incompetent idiot.
Brings new meaning to the “Allah Loves Equality” signs at the Free Palestine protests. As a person raised in a Muslim community, these LGBT people thinking that the Middle East supports them is moronic. Islam is not even close to normalizing anything related to LGBT people. It’s not even close. Major work needs to be done. They are actually violent towards it.
Same. I'm from South Asia and Muslim's are the last demographic who will tolerate anything LGBT.
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>Buddhists Buddhism is large in Thailand. And the country is about to legalize same-sex marriage. What are you talking about?
Buddhist countries like Sri Lanka and Myanmar were colonised by Europeans, which is why homosexuality is still criminalised in those countries. Additionally, the vast majority of Buddhists in my country believe that being homosexual is a karmic result of a sin that you committed in one of your previous lives.
Interesting. But in my country, Muslims and Christians are at the forefront to champion the obstruction of progressive LGBT rights. Ironic when they're minorities themselves.
Never intended on visiting that shit hole anyway…
There are people who live there
This is not about you, there are gay people in Iraq
are there people out there who **want** to visit Iraq? Serious question. Can you even visit?
If it was safe I would go. I love history.
I would only visit Irak because of the Mesopotamian ruins, but other than that I'm never stepping that entire region, too much to risk.
Türkiye was surprisingly good. Not a gay haven at all, but it's not a theocracy and to top it all off it's very black friendly. I loved it.
God what an entitled selfish comment.
We need to think outside the box and set up an NGO that matches gay and lesbian couples into sham beard marriages in these countries.
Embarrassing
It was not safe to have relationship or get out of the closet before this stupid law because people would kill without mercy for their false beliefs and the cops won't do shit there's substantial numbers of unsolved murders and crimes out here so I can't see why the fucking government is running more lives for their incompetence. As soon as religion touches politics you can tell the country is going to turn into a shit hole I'm just hoping to get the fuck out of this miserable shit hole next year because I'm so fucking sick of their shit and depressed because I can't see any improvement in any fucking aspect of this country we're just going backwards instead of moving forward.
I'm so sorry to hear that. Once I helped an Iraqi asylum seeker who had to leave the country because his uncle wanted to kill him for being gay and the uncle is part of the Shia militia, so he said he would hunt him wherever he went. The only reason he wasn't dead was because the mother threatened to commit suicide when the uncle wanted to kill him. I wish you luck and all the best!
Excited to see the colleges start protesting this.
Is it weird that I'm not feeling anything? I'm surprised it wasn't criminalized already.
I guess Saddam Hussein didn't care and the US backed governments tried to respect some human rights at least formally.
It's a good thing we spent $3 trillion in taxpayer dollars in this country. Could have been used to give every American free college and free healthcare.
America should never have poked their noses into other's business tbh
Yes. 3 trillion dollars spent, only to immediately allow the imposition of a new theocratic constitution on the people there.
Iraq should now face 100% sanctions from the west! It’s the only way!
This bill is surely going to improve their economy 💀
Of all religions in Europe, islam is the worst.
Waits for the "it's their culture" comments. Glad I'll never support that religion in any capacity.
I think i've become too accustomed to just assuming any middle-eastern country is going to a horrible time for gays. News like these can't surprise anyone, right? However sad and fucked up it is.
The religion of peace strikes again. Pay attention, QuEeRs FoR pAlEsTiNe folx.
The crime of one regime doesn’t mean we have to endorse the killing of Muslim majority civillians everywhere
I wouldn't hold my breath until they care about you.
Iraq should be criminalized by the rest of the world for crimes against humanity
Bruv the sky is blue what else is new? Muslim countries ban homosexuality period. No matter how liberal or progressive they claim to be. Just how it is.
I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if religion didn’t exist.
So much better
Religion must go , this is ridiculous 🙄 😒
I kinda love how based this sub is. Never hold back. But you literally can’t say these comments on other subs? It’s so strange. Reddit is such a mind fuck
Better focus on this than trying to stabilize their democracy, economy and violent militias..
It would interesting to read what leftists and progressives have to say about it
It’s moronic to criminalize any sexuality that involves 2+ consenting adults. It’s also moronic to defend imperialism and genocide just to side with the alternate argument.
Most based comment here. The amount of people using Iraqi law to somehow suggest that Palestinians deserve what’s happening here is absolutely ridiculous.
They don’t care. LGBT was a co-opted ‘virtue’ of the real left simply because it was adversarial to the current dominant order.
That it's really bad? I'm not sure what else you expect. I'm in a very progressive bubble and I don't know anyone who would think otherwise.
How long for a blowjob?
Post locked count down...
One of the most primitive countries in existence. Fuck them all.
Yall are aware that gay Muslims exist they just don't subscribe to American individualistic gaga anthems that alot of yall do. Up until the British colonialist expansion that lead to wahabism and scripture purists, many European men including Oscar Wilde often ran away to Morroco and the middle east to have their gay fantasies and community while escaping puritanical European Christianity.
People who just want to justify their own hatred of brown people will never acknowledge historical complexities. It’s sad to see so much of this in this sub specifically.
It's not surprising, so many twinks only think with their assholes so their politics are shit.
Unfortunately, that doesn't surprise me. It's sad though.
Hola
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Worried about anyone that lives there or in any other horrible place like this one.
American Foreign Policy fails again
hooray for the religion of peace!
Asmodeus is crying for the sin of lust can break through all of the earth.
Why make consenting adultscriminals. They are someone's children, brother, sister!
Because Muslims view “sinners” as infidels. Anyone who won’t accept their twisted state of control is mercy killed in the name of Allah….
Worst part is that Iraqi law is probably in the more relaxed laws on same-sex relationships when it comes to the Middle East (excluding Israel).
Isn't prison going to promote certain lifestyles even more easily
Shocking.
So the usa 'freed' them just so they could oppress gays?
And I think locking them up in a prison with a whole bunch of other men is really going to be true true punishment seriously maybe not. But I do feel sorry for them. Those beds are hard I bet.
We were supposed to liberate these people, as if we have succeeded in liberating ourselves!
Yet no one mentions Gaza, where Hamas will cut a gay dude's dick off and shove it down his throat before slitting it. Far worse and this shit needs to end. I'm so fed up with Queers for Palestine just for the ignorance and nativité they have of the Middle East.
Damn… thoughts and prayers to all our bros out there in Iraq..
US is getting there.. I mean, we just started rolling back women's rights. Future is bright.
Be sure to tell your Free Palestine friends about this because Hamas is worse... Hamas hangs LGBTQ from street lights with piano wire to insure decapitation. Remind them if Israel disappeared that the Taliban will control the area... From the River to the Sea LGBT will be killed and that's a fact
It’s where the US is headed if MAGAts win
Yet we still have gays chanting support for this twisted and demonic religion.
US Talibangelicals punching the air that someone beat them to it
Where are those queers for Palestine. Send them to Iraq
How are these related?