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Ana_Na_Moose

I feel like a definition of “autonomous region” should be defined for the purposes of this map


Zoloch

Indeed. German Lander are way more autonomous than Spain,s Autonomous communities


menerell

I'm not an expert but I doubt they are more autonomous than the basque country and Catalonia


Lnnrt1

Than Catalonia? yes, but less than the Basque Country and Navarre.


Zoloch

You shouldn’t doubt it. Every region in Spain has the same degree of autonomy (their regional parliament to legislate in the same regional matters and their own regional elections). Spain is not a federal country, Germany, the USA etc are


menerell

I'm sorry but not all regions in Spain have the same degree of autonomy, basque country and Catalonia being the most autonomous. On paper Spain is not a federation (since it's a kingdom and both are almost incompatible), but in practicality Euskadi and Catalonia are more autonomous than landers. They have their own police (substitution of the National Police), they have their own taxes, education and health system.


Laban_Greb

German Länder also have their own taxes, education and health systems. Not sure about police, though.


modern_milkman

Police is also regulated on state level in Germany, not federal level. Meaning each of the German Länder have their own police. There is also a German federal police, but they have a different field of responsibilities. Mainly stuff like border protection and infrastructure security (train stations, airports). Edit: the actual rule in the German constitution says "Everything is regulated by the states. This is only not the case when it's explicitely regulated on a federal level". In reality, that rule-exception construct is reversed, and most things are regulated on the federal level. But education and police are two of the main areas where the states are still almost completely independent.


Zoloch

The powers of the autonomies are set out in the Constitution, and are the same for all. Some regions assume all of them and others prefer not to do so for different reasons (by assuming a competence, for example your own police force, you assume the resulting expense, etc.). Any autonomy can have its police if it decides so. Regarding the health system, education, culture, taxes, etc... absolutely all of them has assumed it. Only, for historical reasons, the Basque Country and Navarra keep their collected taxes, Catalonia follows the general regime


BNI_sp

>since it's a kingdom and both are almost incompatible Quite to the contrary. Historically, kingdoms were actually quite diverse in many places since lower level dukes could negotiate separate deals when the power balance was to their favor. The best example is Germany with respect to Prussia. Prussia had parts which were not part of certain German treaties.


Jetpere

The degree of autonomy in basque country and Navarre is higher than in the case of Catalonia.


redoxburner

Australia and Canada are both federations with a king. There are other examples.


Leviton655

Stop spreading misinformation, everything you say is included in the autonomy statutes of ALL autonomous communities and it is their parliaments that decide whether or not to exercise these rights. Almost all the autonomous communities have their own health and educational system. Catalonia, the Basque country and the Canary Islands, have their own police (which does not replace the national police that also exists there). And only the Basque country and Navarre have their own forum on tax matters and the Canary Islands have exceptions on taxes


menerell

I'm not spreading misinformation, in the first comment I said I'm not an expert.


BNI_sp

Right, spreading false information and hedge by saying not an expert. Why would you comment then?


menerell

Because if people prove me wrong I can learn something


No-Vehicle5447

Traditionally that's done by asking


No-Vehicle5447

We've do have different degrees of autonomy. For example, the basque country and Navarre csn collect their own taxes, most of the others can't.


Zoloch

Yes, but “Among the principles that the Basque tax system must respect are: solidarity, respect for the tax structure of the State, internal and external coordination with the State, fiscal harmonization, respect for International Conventions and Treaties and the interpretative criteria of the General Tax Law (arts. 3 to 6)(Wikipedia).


No-Vehicle5447

Which is a cool deal we Catalans have been asking for some time now


Lnnrt1

More than most, yes. But there are at least two exceptions: Basque and Navarre, where they collect 100% of their taxes, as an example. For the rest of Autonomous communities, they probably shouldn't even be on this map.


fk_censors

Do they use their own languages/dialects in official matters, or standard German?


Laban_Greb

This was about autonomy, not about languages.


MutedIndividual6667

I think it accounts for regions in centralised countries that have special status of autonomy, rather than simply federal countries. In the case of Spain, every region has a status of autonomy(it's a bit of a mess).


blink012

Im guessing they couldn't simply fit in in the map, but Portugal does have 2 autonomous regions with their own governments, the Madeira and Açores archipelagos


Due_Pomegranate_96

So if you count Spanish autonomous communities why don’t you also count German landers or Belgian provinces ie


arvid1328

Spain is technically a unitary State just like France is, with all provinces being autonomous, Germany on the other hand is a federation where states (or Länder) have sovereign rights that the federal government simply can't suspend or take away. The spanish government however can, and it happened to Catalonia in 2017 when they didn't recognize their independence referendum.


Laban_Greb

Btw, provinces (Provincias) is the second level subdivision in Spain. Most “comunidades autonomas” are divided into various provinces.


Longjumping-Buy-4736

What about the UK then, why are  devolved governments with sovereign rights in Scotland and Wales counted as autonomous regions? 


Widhraz

Russian Federation


exitparadise

Mount Athmos? One of those M's doesn't belong.


MoustachePika1

yea it should be ount Athmos


Slicer7207

And transnistria lost an n


SteO153

It is also Valencia and not Valenica.


mudturnspadlocks

So Spain is pretty much Lord of the Flies?


BAKA1ex

Karachay-Cherkessia is actually east of the region labeled. What they labeled actually is Kabardino-Balkaria - other autonomous region which is missing on this map


ManagementProof2272

Sudtirol is only half of the region in northern Italy. The region is actually called “Trentino-Alto Adige”. Sudtirol is the German name for Alto Adige


PulciNeller

another shitty map where south tyrol is more than double its size. smh


ManagementProof2272

The mistake is not on the size of the area though. The mistake is thinking that Sudtiröl is the only autonomous part. The entire Trentino- Alto Adige is autonomous


Busy_Garbage_4778

Autonomous provinces in an autonomous region.


ManagementProof2272

100% correct


squarepuller69

So does Spain even exist?


Interesting_Dot_3922

Do Germany, USA or Canada exist if they are made the same way?


WestonSpec

Canada is explicitly a federal state, though. So there are co-equal national and subnational governments that have clearly defined responsibilities.


Zoloch

Spanish “Autonomous Communities” are way less autonomous than any USA state, any Canadian Province or any German Lander (etc). Autonomous Comunity is an administrative name for region. OP has done a very silly map as the definition of Autonomous region varies wildly in every country of Europe


squarepuller69

Germany, if they even do exist, should be given the same treatment on this map then.


ashleyfoxuccino

No because Spain is a unitary state with only autonomous communities. It's a weird system, but not a federation technically.


BNI_sp

The point by the commenter above is that truly federal states should have their subdivisions listed as well.


ashleyfoxuccino

But federalized states aren't the same thing as autonomous states


BNI_sp

No shit. But that is why you should point them out. Federal states don't have autonomous regions because they are built by relatively independent parts. So, you should gray out federal states because the concept in general does not apply.


Sodinc

False


Zoloch

In Spain an Autonomous Comunity is a denomination for region, similar to German Lander (a step lower as it is not a Federal country) and less autonomous than the American states


GeetchNixon

So Spain is basically three kids in a trench coat masquerading as a country. https://preview.redd.it/d8dms7u94w0d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5db5369d10835a58f05e6dc06e04db206ba21edb


Zoloch

It’s just a name for regions (Autonomous Community), with less de facto autonomy than German Lander, much less than States in the YSA, as these countries are Federal, while Spain is not. It’s just an administrative name for…regions


astropoolIO

No, they are not just "regions". Every Autonomous community has their own laws, competences, constitution (autonomy statute) and even elected parliament, with a president (kind of prime minister) and ministries (counselor's offices).


Zoloch

Yes, like provinces in Canada. It’s an administrative naming. Lander in Germany States in the USA, cantons in Switzerland etc (to name just a few) have more self government than autonomous communities in Spain, as they are federal counties


alikander99

Nevertheless your first comment is wrong, because they're not just regions. They have more competencies than usual. I think your standard is just very high, most regions in unitary states are like the provinces of france


Zoloch

The name is meaningless. A Province in Canada is like a state in the USA, federal. Province in Spain is…nothing. The same with “region” or any other name. The only import thing is the real power they have. I said Region because “communidad” is often wrongly translated as Community. And Autonomous Region means administratively something different depending the country. Very different in Portugal or Italy than in Denmark (Greenland)


alikander99

> I said Region because “communidad” is often wrongly translated as Community I digress. For example here you can see it in english:https://portal.cor.europa.eu/divisionpowers/Pages/Spain-intro.aspx And even though autonomous regions do mean different things in every country, they still share enough things to refer to them in a group.


Lnnrt1

Kind of, but not in levels of regional autonomy. Most of these regions are *told* they are very autonomous, names matter, and every now and then will challenge this.


bossk220

fun fact: Kalmykia in Russia is the only region in Europe to be majority Buddhist.


Minskdhaka

It's 48% Buddhist as of 2012.


bossk220

53.4% as of 2016


jimhellas

The autonomous region in Greece is called "Athos", not "Athimos". Interesting fact: It's an area with monasteries, where women are not allowed to enter.


AMDOL

That place has an unfortunate status. It's basically a local government theocracy, and it does authoritarian shit like restricting freedom of movement as you mentioned. Athos should not be allowed to exist in the way it does, it violates people's rights and the separation of church and state. However, Greece refuses to fix the situation, and even their agreement to join the Schengen Area has a disclaimer about Athos so it can't be used to force them to open up.


frenchsmell

Kalmykia, the only Buddhist state in Europe.


gregorydgraham

So Spain is running a federal system, Britain is almost running a federal system, but Germany is not?


[deleted]

The correct name is “Mount Athos”


Tricky_Transition_19

Why would you include the Isle of Man but not the channel Islands?


derfeuerbringer

How do you define autonomous in regards to territory here? It's a scientific term, but I see no reference to an established definition on the map


WyvernsRest

Your missing the Peoples Republic of Cork


Own-Molasses5353

Mount AthMoS


Zoloch

It’s not very accurate, as the meaning is wildly different in every country. Federal Fermsny’s lander are more autonomous than Spanish Autonomous Communities. It’s a denomination of Region, and all of them with some internal autonomy, as in many other countries


Rookie-Crookie

No Kabardin-Balkaria.


gardarik

Gagauzia and Transnistria are misspelled.


ynns1

In Greece it's 'Mt Athos' not 'Athmos'.


the_party_galgo

The discussions here drove me mad and I don't even know anymore who's more autonomous than who, what even is autonomy, etc


kavlar-utschinki

Spain, are you ok?


Middle-Chemistry-186

We are not


MetaphoricalMouse

this map is so insanely wrong


matxapunga

As a spaniard... I don't get it, just because of the name? 100% german landers or swiss cantons are more "autonomous" from the central government!


alikander99

As another spaniard I'll explain. Switzerland and Germany are federations. They should perhaps be included in the map, but they're not, because it's a given that in a federation all entities have a high degree of autonomy. Spain however is a unitary state, which has made of an exception (autonomous communities) the norm.


BNI_sp

Not untrue. But what would the map then show? It should at least color and label federal states separately.


alikander99

Well my biggest grip with the map comes that way. Because I think if you include some federal states (Russia) you should include all federal states.


Nickname1945

The fact that Bashkortostan is somehow not on the map is so stupid and kinda offensive


MajesticIngenuity32

These ~~Soviet~~Russian Autonomous Republics are autonomous on paper maybe.


tlajunen

Correct. I believe they were made "autonomous" just to please some international organizations back when they cared about international organizations.


moabitenationalist

Scotland and Wales not autonomous


[deleted]

They are autonomous because they're self-governing with their own parliaments and in Scotland's case, a separate educational and legal system.


blink012

are scotland and wales in any way different in autonomy than England? (honest question). As in, does England have more autonomy in the UK than Scotland and Wales?


Upbeat-Excitement-46

England doesn't have its own parliament, so in that sense no. However it does have by far the largest population of the constituents in the UK, meaning it has the greatest impact on which party gets into power overall.


Fierytoadfriend

In that case, why is Madrid counted as autonomous, it has the same parliament as Spain?


Upbeat-Excitement-46

Because it has more powers? I don't know what the situation with Spain is. England isn't more autonomous in any legal sense within the UK; if it had the same population as Scotland or Wales it would easily be the *least* autonomous or powerful within the UK. I only mentioned the population of England as a caveat to that to demonstrate why it holds more sway in the overarching UK government.


Laban_Greb

Madrid has its own parliament, the Asamblea de Madrid


stag1013

Yes they are different. English education system and health care is voted on by the UK Parliament, including Scottish and Northern Irish (though they often abstain). Scottish and Northern Irish have their own devolved Parliaments for these issues, while England does not. So England is the only non-autonomous region.


blink012

so England is less autonomous than Scotland and Wales within the UK but actually controls the UK (via population as mentioned in another reply), so in the end English people are more "autonomous" (as in, able to decide on their own) than Scottish/Welsh people, is that it? edit: to make it clearer


Howtothinkofaname

*The* English people, not English people as individuals.


stag1013

I understand what you're saying and you're understanding the basic mechanisms right, but I would disagree that being part of a larger state that you have proportional say in AND getting a devolved government is more autonomous in any way than simply being part of the largest constituent nation.


Liam_021996

Scotland even has their own currency, so to speak (Scottish pound)


BlueSoloCup89

Fun currency fact: the only legal tender in Scotland are coins, as Scottish law does not define any notes as legal tender.


Liam_021996

That's pretty cool but obviously it's not enforced at any level anymore but I'd imagine if a shop wanted to be awkward they could legally refuse to accept your bank notes


Howtothinkofaname

A shop could do that in England too.


shortercrust

It’s the same currency - British Pound Sterling. They just have their own banknotes, as do Northern Ireland.


Liam_021996

I know, I'm English but I should have worded it better than saying it's their own currency. I just mean the notes are different


-lukeworldwalker-

According to that logic all German and Austrian states should be autonomous on this map as they have more autonomy from their central governments than Scotland has from Westminster. I find the criteria on this map rather arbitrary.


Zoloch

Even more than Spain’s Autonomous Regions (an administrative name for…region)


44-47-25_N_20-28-5-E

Bosnia, Spain and several autonomus regions in Europe


Fit_Cut_4238

Isn’t Bosnia still governed in some ways by some international body?  Like I do t think they control their own airspace yet?


Right_Gas2569

Bosnia has their own leaders, one for each major ethnic group (Croats, Serbs and Bosniaks). There are Nato soldiers in Bosnia but their role isn't that important anymore as the country is pretty stable currently, but they are there just in case they need to deescalate tensions between the ethnic groups. Bosnia and Herzegovina is divided into two Entities Federation of B. and H. and Republika Srpska (Serbian/Serb republic in English). Bosnian politics are extremely complicated because of the stability of the multi ethnic state. Republika Srpska likes to do shady stuff with Serbia, Russia, Belarus and Hungary (Hungary because of Orban and his friendship with Russia). They do their own thing and celebrate their own holidays and host their own military parades which they invite people from those countries. The Federation is more pro Western and their divide is the reason why Bosnia can't join EU or Nato easily.


dogfoodhoarder

Missing some islands in the Atlantic.


Pootis_1

Why is thearea around venice autonomous


LADZ345_

Imagine if they all became independent, that would be quite humorous


Lnnrt1

This is not an exact science but in Spain there are Autonomous Communities which shouldn't probably be on this map, BUT it has 1 Chartered Community (Navarre) and 1 Autonomous Community with Chartered Provinces (Alava / Biscay / Gipuzkoa which make up the Basque Country) that should probably stay.


Kyzikossknight

Is Spain OK?


quilant

Isn’t there an autonomous chunk of Copenhagen?


Skruestik

Not really.


quilant

The Christiania commune doesn’t count as one? Wikipedia says it’s classified as an autonomous zone


CosmoShiner

Autonomous zones should definitely be defined considering the way Russia has its autonomy and the way Spain has its autonomy are different


BNI_sp

Germany's states and Swiss' cantons have more autonomy than many of these regions, me believes.


LowerParsnip3548

Does this mean they put away their own shopping carts?


Eroclo

Spain’s gonna fucking explode Balkan Boogaloo 2.0


[deleted]

It's called "Mount Athos", not Athmos


PigMoney42

The green region in northern Italy is “Trentino e Alto Adige”, while Südtirol only refers to the northern part of the region


Spicy_Alligator_25

How is Madrid an autonomous region? It's the CAPITAL!


arvid1328

Has France granted Corsica autonomy already? I don't think so, not long ago I saw a french official (interior minister iirc) say they are ready for negociations with corsicans and can grant them what they want up to and including autonomy.


FuckMeRigt

I don't know why you are getting downvoted as Corsica is not autonomous. They have agreed recently on the basis of going into this way but nothing else.


arvid1328

I'm getting downvoted because it's Reddit, where people are not necessarily able to accept that their opinions might not be true.


FuckMeRigt

I see what you mean


trabajoderoger

Russian autonomous areas arent really autonomous.


astropoolIO

For those saying "autonomous communities are just regions".... Big No. No, they are not just "regions". Every Autonomous community has their own laws, competences, constitution (autonomy statute) and even elected parliament, with a president (kind of prime minister) and ministries (counselor's offices). The only difference with a german lander is that they exist in a federal country. It is a federal country where the different regions unite in their own right to form a (supra)national entity. In a unitary country with autonomous communities the central state grants autonomous status to the regions by means of national sovereignty as a whole, but they are still governed by the general principles of the Spanish constitution. It even specifies that several of them are historical nationalities, due to their history, culture and language: Andalucia, Galicia, Basque Country, Catalonia, Aragon, Valencia, Balearic islands and Canary Islands.


AostaValley

Hi!


Drakulic95

You forgot the autonomous province of Kosovo and Metohija.


Corenko

Kosovo


CombinationWhich6391

Transdnistria is one of the russian occupied territories and in no way an autonomous region. It is part of Moldova. Spelling over all is bad on this map.


OutrageousFuel8718

So what are you suggesting to do with all the people in Transnistria who don't want to be part of Moldova?


gryffssalmon

move to russia


Expensive_Ad3250

But this is their home.


More_History_4413

Kosovo is missing


biergardhe

Genuinely wondering, isn't it quite weird showing the different parts of the UK here? The UK is an union of four countries? Isn't England as autonomous as the rest? I'm no expert in UK legislation.


TractorDrawnAerial

Are Crimea, Karelia, and Northern Ireland autonomous or are they occupied?


Expensive_Ad3250

I understand why you can consider Crimea occupied, but how is Karelia?


VeryImportantLurker

Neither Ireland nor Finland claim Northern Ireland or Karelia, and the residents of both places mostly want to remain British and Russian. Thats not an occupation.


CatL1f3

>Neither Ireland nor Finland claim Northern Ireland or Karelia Idk about that tbh...


VeryImportantLurker

I mean its not up for debate, Ireland dropped its claim to Northern Ireland as part of the good Friday agreement in 1998. Finland gave up its claim on Karelia in the armistice ending the Continuation War in 1944. Northern Ireland has a British plurality, and the majority do not want succesion right now, altough that might change in the future. Karelia has also been majorty Russian for decades now and Finland rightfully lost it for being axis co belligereants. Neither of those sound "occupied" to me


ResponsibilityNo5467

Even under Ukriane's rule Crimea is an autonomous republic. But I guess you could say Crimea got occupied by Ukrainians from Crimean Tatars.