From the Article: "**The military program started under former President Donald Trump** and **continued months into Joe Biden’s presidency**, Reuters found – even after alarmed social media executives warned the new administration that the Pentagon had been trafficking in COVID misinformation. **The Biden White House issued an edict in spring 2021 banning the anti-vax effort, which also disparaged vaccines produced by other rivals, and the Pentagon initiated an internal review**, Reuters found."
I kinda feel like it's important to highlight where it started, who initiated an investigation into the program and who ended it.
The last two paragraphs from the article:
"**Nevertheless, the Pentagon’s clandestine propaganda efforts are set to continue.** In an unclassified strategy document last year, top Pentagon generals wrote that the U.S. military could undermine adversaries such as China and Russia using “disinformation spread across social media, false narratives disguised as news, and similar subversive activities [to] weaken societal trust by undermining the foundations of government.”
**And in February, the contractor that worked on the anti-vax campaign – General Dynamics IT – won a $493 million contract. Its mission: to continue providing clandestine influence services for the military.**"
I'm cautious with this article and am going to source every single consideration because this feels like it's supposed to tell one story if you actually read it and carry it out to it's conclusions versus anything other than what I just described.
I found this quite helpful: [https://www.usaspending.gov/award/CONT\_AWD\_47QFCA24F0009\_4732\_47QTCK18D0003\_4732](https://www.usaspending.gov/award/CONT_AWD_47QFCA24F0009_4732_47QTCK18D0003_4732)
...WTF, America was peddling the COVID misinformation. Like it was official from the Trump government? This should be major news, because it is extremely wtf.
The US establishment has engaged in similar activities for decades by now... Not in any way unique to Trump that shady intelligence operations are used to undermine any US rivals or enemies. This shouldn't surprise anyone. Quite frankly, what surprises me more is the reaction, as if this is not something to be expected from the US.
The haggling over the political angle is really weird to me. The US defense establishment has engaged in this kind of thing for decades without any oversight. I would expect for both parties to be held accountable since this is very much continuing with similar programs.
There's an election going on between the person who was in office when this policy was enacted and the person who took office, his admin requested an investigation and they put a cease to that particular operation. It's also important to note that the US Govt intends to still use the services of GDIT and has additional contracts with them. But for the sake of transparency, in this current US political moment, I felt it important to make the distinction that only one of these two individuals oversaw the end of this horrible operation.
That's me. I'm the one who's going around posting this part of the article, that's buried fairly deep. There may be some others but check my post history. I wanted to make sure that anyone not reading the full story may still see the post, prompting them to actually read it instead of just assuming America = Bad.
Important for Americans to highlight -- Biden should beat Trump over the head with this for the next six months.
But people outside the US aren't obligated to give us a pass just because "the other guys did it." For all they know, the "other guys" will be back in the driver's seat next year.
Yep. Trump program Biden shut down.
It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, most of the anti-vax talking points used in Western countries originated in a Russian misinformation op intended to weaken *us*. And I'm not even talking just about the Covid vaccine, Russian intelligence started supporting and coordinating the Western anti-vax movement in 2018 or earlier.
That messaging was also amplified by the Chinese when they realized Sinovac's Covid-19 vaccine barely worked against Alpha & Beta - which was widely in circulation by the time it was approved - and it was just about completely ineffective against Delta & subsequent variants.
Russia's Sputnik-V was long-delayed, most other countries that purchased it never received it, it was even *less* effective than Sinovac's, and they made up all the test data - much of which still hasn't been internationally vetted. As is tradition.
Trump got the vaccine [and a booster](https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-donald-trump-coronavirus-vaccine-74abcd4e6833835f5df445fe2142e22b) pretty early on, so I don't know what to make of him trying to spread lies about it.
Submission statement: the US launched a campaign targeted at countries in Southeast Asia like the Philippines starting in mid 2020 to undermine the Chinese aid. Initially that started as conspiracies around Chinese supplied masks and testing kits, and eventually morphed into anti vax skepticism against Chinese vaccines. However that led to skepticism of all vaccines and made the Philippines the country with the lowest vaccine uptake rate in the entire region.
Callousness of this campaign aside, this demonstrates that:
* American disinformation is extremely effective.
* Chinese counter-campaign, if any, was extremely weak.
Fast forward a week and people be like why doesn't US use same tactics as Russia/china with respect to propaganda and misinformation.
Yes, your good countries do deal in misinformation campaigns amd propaganda. And a lot of these campaigns are still going on and will continue in future. And no, their goals are not really good.
Yep, Russia in particular has been pushing the Western anti-vax movement since 2018, if not earlier.
Literally all the talking points they use currently came straight from Prigoshin's bot farms.
China joined amplifying that propaganda when Sinovac didn't work very well at all.
They both understand that a healthy population is a huge competitive advantage, and their populations are both *incredibly* unhealthy, statistically - Russia in particular where the ~~haircare~~ healthcare system hasn't improved since the 50s. Generally the single least healthy demographic in the world is the Russians. And the fastest aging demographic is the Chinese, though the Ukraine war & domestic difficulties related to it (and Covid still sweeping through a population that *kind of* got vaccinated with a vaccine that barely worked) may push the Russians into first place in the next year or two.
I’ll do you one better:
• [COUNTRY] disinformation is extremely effective.
• [COUNTRY] counter-campaign, if any, was extremely weak.
The absolute state of the polarization of US politics isn’t helped by Russian, and likely others’, meddling. The thing with disinformation is that while the seeds are planted by an organized actor, which is relatively easy to watch out for, they are germinated by WhatsApp uncles, FaceBook dads, the Twitter youth, etc. at which point, the equivalent of runaway reaction in chemistry is occurring, and nothing could really stop disinformation at this phase other than extraneously draconian measures.
yeah its extremely hard to counter campaign misinformation, no matter which side does it, its pretty obvious why the US is targeting tiktok to be banned because while the CCP wouldnt directly be involved in sowing misinformation its a perfect breeding ground for it and with some manipulation in the algorithm they can 'organically' grow them
The submission statement far understate the content of the article, which covers details of the disinformation campaign not only in the Philippines, but also in Russia and middle east. The only thing the article does not touch on, is how effective it was at undermining China's strategy and reputation? Now that this campaign has been revealed, it became known that all major world powers, both democracies and autocracies, engages in disinformation. This would make it even more difficult for the US to claim moral high ground in its competition with China, if it had any to begin with.
> Now that this campaign has been revealed, it became known that all major world powers, both democracies and autocracies, engages in disinformation.
That has been known forever. It is just that there is barely an attempt to mask the hypocrisy anymore.
America has stopped having the moral argument decades ago. Except maybe to Americans. Most of the world admires American wealth but the concept of democracy and freedom is dispelled
Speaking of elections, this alleged campaign also appears to implicate interference in Filipino electoral politics because some campaign messages involved Filipino politics and elected politicians. Frankly, I don't really care as an American, that's just something interesting I noticed.
Also not touched upon was China's [own efforts to undermine other vaccines](https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/26/asia/xi-jinping-china-vaccine-intl-hnk/index.html) to try to manipulate developing countries into accepting Chinese vaccines:
> China has been praised for its “vaccine diplomacy,” promising shots to developing countries and investing in vaccine candidates that do not require expensive cold storage to be effective. But as questions have been raised over the effectiveness of one of those vaccines, the country’s state media has reacted aggressively, targeting not just critics but also other vaccines, in an apparent effort to tear down their reputation in the name of defending the Chinese shots.
> Along with hyping reports of deaths allegedly related to vaccines – a dangerous game that could undermine not only confidence in the Pfizer and Moderna candidates targeted by Chinese media, but all coronavirus shots – China’s propaganda organs have also pushed alternate theories about the origins of the pandemic itself, including a long-debunked claim that it began in a US army lab.
Because, surprise surprise, reddit is at the forefront of US propaganda and exceptionalism. Not directly, but moderators and users alike clearly have a pro-US, anti-China bias and it becomes a self enforcing loop.
Years ago /R/Geopolitics was one of the last subreddits left where you could have rational conversation without any bias. These days are over with random American teenagers(and likely adults) talking about installing ballistic nukes in Taiwan because of… democracy. lol.
> General Dynamics IT
It's one of our largest contractors, and they were following orders from the administration.
I'm more pissed about the person who ordered all this in the first place, they need to be charged with some felonies.
Oliver North was the fall guy for Iran Contra which involved in its fuckery facilitating drug shipments in the USA, violating congressional orders, funding death squads, and he didn't see any jail time
Hell instead he was running the NRA until he resigned because they were laundering too much Russian money.
" three-year suspended prison term, two years probation, $150,000 in fines, and 1,200 hours of community service."
then they reversed the convictions.
> Hell instead he was running the NRA until he resigned because they were laundering too much Russian money.
One interesting note is how we pushed back against Chinese vaccines but not Russian ones.
Even if Trump was willing to sabotage Russia, there wasn't much point in attacking their vaccine efforts. Did they ever actually develop an effective vaccine?
I vaguely remember there was poor uptake in Russia, even up through the present invasion wave to Ukraine. Eastern Europe in general had poor reception to vaccines which correlates with poor trust in government.
I remember that at first Russia claimed to have no COVID in the country, then when they couldn't hide it, developed their vaccine in record time.
They claimed the vaccine was extremely effective, but [Sputnik Vaccine Efficacy Data Published in Lancet Are ‘Statistically Impossible’](https://healthpolicy-watch.news/sputnik-vaccine-efficacy-data/)
This also reminds of the Afghanistan withdrawal. It was Biden’s administration that physically withdrew from the country, yes, but it was Trump’s administration that set up the whole deal and plan— it just carried over to Biden’s presidency.
A new aspect of covert cold war I suppose, at least fitting into the current media if not new in idea, easier, I suppose, than earlier similar efforts before the internet and social media
Because the purpose of propaganda and foreign intervention is not for the benefit of those foreign peoples, but for the benefit of the originating entity’s interests
Mistrust for China will usually mean a more favorable view for the US, which could be useful for an alliance to contain China. However, China is largely making itself look bad already by, for example, harassing Filipino vessels in the South China sea. The gains of that campaign probably were minimal, if any, and came at a heavy cost for the Philippines.
China is bad but they aren't the cartoon villains the US would love to have to fight against so they fear mongeeed against them to make them look like that. It's as if the only news we got of the US was about their war crimes and shady CIA operation like this one. Oh also as if the ones that were very stupid were incredibly effective in reality
> The Pentagon’s anti-vax propaganda came in response to China’s own efforts to spread false information about the origins of COVID. The virus first emerged in China in late 2019. But in March 2020, Chinese government officials claimed without evidence that the virus may have been first brought to China by an American service member who participated in an international military sports competition in Wuhan the previous year. Chinese officials also suggested that the virus may have originated in a U.S. Army research facility at Fort Detrick, Maryland. There’s no evidence for that assertion.
.
> Mirroring Beijing’s public statements, Chinese intelligence operatives set up networks of fake social media accounts to promote the Fort Detrick conspiracy, according to a U.S. Justice Department complaint.
The new Cold War between U.S. & China is going to have casualties. So be it
[Sounds familiar](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/global-pulse/2021/01/28/what-chinas-vax-trolling-adds-up-to-491548):
> While China observers said the exact purpose of the vaccine smear campaign isn’t clear, that’s almost beside the point. In just a few weeks, it’s already seeding doubts about the safety of shots from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna, providing talking points for vaccine skeptics in the United States and giving countries rhetorical cover to purchase Chinese-made vaccines that appear to be less effective than the two leading Western ones.
> Claims that the Pfizer and Moderna shots are risky or even deadly have been boosted by headlines from nationalist Chinese media and in remarks from Chinese officials. The head of China’s Center for Disease Control and Prevention raised eyebrows when he questioned the safety of the mRNA shots.
Here in Taiwan, the Chinese straight up [blocked our access to BioNTech vaccines](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/business/taiwan-china-biontech-vaccine.html) for a year and told us we can have their vaccines instead.
People forget or don't wish to acknowledge how aggressively the Chinese [weaponized vaccine access and information](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8776365/) but predictably feign outrage when it comes out that other vaccine makers were responding in kind.
Never happened. BNT sold the rights for sales and distribution in Greater China, which included Taiwan, to Fosun Pharma. Taiwan tried to buy directly from BNT, who understandably went "Gosh, we'd love to sell to you but we already made a deal for exclusive rights with Fosun". The Tsai government then decided it was more important to not be seen buying them from a Chinese company and than it was to procure vaccines, then proceeded to try and blame China for their own unwillingness to deal with Fosun.
BS. China browbeat BNT into delaying a deal indefinitely with Taiwan, just like they pressured developing countries with Taiwan relations to accept "one China" before receiving vaccines. The record is clear and the only ones still buying the story you're peddling here are Chinese and tankies. China's "vaccine diplomacy" stands alongside its wolf warrior diplomacy in the books.
The US didn't block anyone from receiving vaccines or [attach strings to vaccine deliveries](https://www.csis.org/analysis/china-exploiting-pandemic-advance-its-interests-mixed-results).
Please don't allow emotions to lead you down the wrong path. Despite what (apparently) happened, it does not mean the Chinese vaccine was more effective than we were led to believe. It objectively undisputed that the Chinese vaccine is much less effective than the ones created by United States companies.
It's not about vaccine efficiency, but about an antivaxx propaganda. If that article is true, then people who started that operation are partially responsible for thousands, if not millions of deaths worldwide. Even inside the US antivaxxers are probably responsible for many, many deaths.
The western vaccines weren't available. Everyone not in a rich country remembers this very clearly; rich countries kept their vaccines to vax their own people and there were none available for export. This in itself is okay. It was a bad situation. Everyone understands.
But then they were also peddling disinfo about the vaccines from China which were available becaues China was able to manufacture them at greater scale.
>The Biden White House issued an edict in spring 2021 banning the anti-vax effort, **which also disparaged vaccines produced by other rivals**, and the Pentagon initiated an internal review, Reuters found.
>Academic research published recently has shown that, when individuals develop skepticism toward a single vaccine, **those doubts often lead to uncertainty about other inoculations.**
>When he addressed the vaccination issue, the Philippines had among the worst inoculation rates in Southeast Asia. Only 2.1 million of its 114 million citizens were fully vaccinated – far short of the government’s target of 70 million. By the time Duterte spoke, COVID cases exceeded 1.3 million, and almost 24,000 Filipinos had died from the virus. The difficulty in vaccinating the population contributed to the worst death rate in the region.
You certainly didn't.
You are cherry picking very hard. Look at the actual alleged propaganda.
The twitter post at the beginning of the article:
>"Do you want that? COVID came from China and vaccines came from China"
Another tweet cited
>“COVID came from China and the VACCINE also came from China, don’t trust China!”
Also cited: allegations the propaganda said the CHINESE vaccine contained pork gelatin.
And so on and so on. The point is - this was clearly targeted towards the Chinese-produced COVID vaccine. It was not holistically against ALL COVID vaccines, and definitely not anti-ALL vaccines.
Sowing distrust in one vaccine inevitably leads to distrust in all vaccines, as professional research implies, as referenced by the article. Your the one essentially claiming that research is invalid based off an assumption. The journalist who wrote this is ahead of you logically
The statement made by the person you are replying to is correct. Which actually makes me wonder if you read the article.
The article didn't say that the campaign targeted all vaccines, but it said that once you create skepticism on one vaccine, people are more likely to develop a skepticism to all vaccines.
From the article:
>Academic research published recently has shown that, when individuals develop skepticism toward a single vaccine, those doubts often lead to uncertainty about other inoculations.
Disclaimer because this is Reddit - I'm not saying that what the US has been apparently doing is good, just advocating for more precise language on what they have been doing.
I still believe American vaccines were more effective, but this news, if true, is still bad for the United States' reputation. During the time this campaign allegedly took place, there were not enough American vaccines available for everyone even in the United States (I could not get mine until late spring of 2021). Therefore, it appears unlikely that there would have been enough American vaccines for every Filipino person. Filipinos who did not have access to an American vaccine might have had to choose between taking a Chinese vaccine or nothing at all. Unless we can prove that the Chinese vaccines were completely useless or were actually harmful overall, then it would appear that this campaign put lives at risk.
Now this is a thoughtful reaction - thank you. That said, it was already proven, the Chinese vaccine was less effective. [You can read it from a Singapore government source here](https://www.ncid.sg/News-Events/News/Pages/Sinovac-jabs-not-as-effective-in-preventing-severe-disease-S%E2%80%99pore-study.aspx)
Are you a bot trained to spread the message of the Chinese vaccine's lower effectiveness? I have already said I believe the vaccine was less effective. You are preaching to the choir on this issue.
What needs to be proven to avoid being responsible for putting lives at risk is that the Chinese vaccine was *completely useless or actually harmful overall*, not merely that it was *less effective.* Unless it was useless or actually harmful, less effective is still likely better than taking no vaccine at all.
Not a bot. So by your logic, people in the Philippines were against ALL vaccines just because they learned one of the choices was bad. In your city if one of the 100 restaurants was removed because it was bad, does that mean everyone is starving?
And let me ask you, which vaccine do you have?
>people in the Philippines were against ALL vaccines
I never claimed this. You are attacking a straw man.
You have either failed to understand my assertions and reasoning or are deliberately deflecting to push your own message. I'm sure most Filipinos would have loved to take an American vaccine, but there were simply not enough American vaccines for everyone. Anyone who could not get an American vaccine likely had to choose between taking an inferior Chinese vaccine or no vaccine at all.
If you were starving, and all of those restaurants were full for the next few months except for the bad one, would you eat at the bad restaurant or go without food for the next few months?
I took Pfizer which, along with the Moderna vaccine, is considered to be the most effective or potent vaccine. I have a few friends who were not able to get a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, so they had to get the only available Johnson & Johnson vaccine that was considered less effective than Pfizer or Moderna at the time. Should I have told them to not take Johnson & Johnson because it was less effective?
I would have taken it if I had to choose between the Chinese vaccine and no vaccine at all. Your link a few comments ago said that the Chinese vaccine was only 60% effective. 60% is preferable to 0%.
But that wasn't the case. Just the [US](https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/u-s-international-covid-19-vaccine-donations-tracker/#recipient-country) alone gave 33,600,000 COVID vaccines to the Philippines (total). People in the Philipines weren't a scenario where they had to chose between thr China vaccine and no vaccine.
There were over 112 million people in the Philippines in 2020. Even if we assume all 33 million vaccines from the United States were delivered at once as soon as the vaccine was developed (doubtful), were the other 78 million Filipinos still able to get American vaccines within the relevant timeframe? If they did, how did they get them before most Americans got an American vaccine?
>The U.S. military launched a clandestine program amid the COVID crisis to discredit China’s Sinovac inoculation – payback for Beijing’s efforts to blame Washington for the pandemic. One target: the Filipino public. Health experts say the gambit was indefensible and put innocent lives at risk.
So they were pushing US vaccines? That doesn't sound like something Trump would do.
I don't think negative views on China's vaccine needed help.
From the Article: "**The military program started under former President Donald Trump** and **continued months into Joe Biden’s presidency**, Reuters found – even after alarmed social media executives warned the new administration that the Pentagon had been trafficking in COVID misinformation. **The Biden White House issued an edict in spring 2021 banning the anti-vax effort, which also disparaged vaccines produced by other rivals, and the Pentagon initiated an internal review**, Reuters found." I kinda feel like it's important to highlight where it started, who initiated an investigation into the program and who ended it.
The last two paragraphs from the article: "**Nevertheless, the Pentagon’s clandestine propaganda efforts are set to continue.** In an unclassified strategy document last year, top Pentagon generals wrote that the U.S. military could undermine adversaries such as China and Russia using “disinformation spread across social media, false narratives disguised as news, and similar subversive activities [to] weaken societal trust by undermining the foundations of government.” **And in February, the contractor that worked on the anti-vax campaign – General Dynamics IT – won a $493 million contract. Its mission: to continue providing clandestine influence services for the military.**"
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I'm cautious with this article and am going to source every single consideration because this feels like it's supposed to tell one story if you actually read it and carry it out to it's conclusions versus anything other than what I just described. I found this quite helpful: [https://www.usaspending.gov/award/CONT\_AWD\_47QFCA24F0009\_4732\_47QTCK18D0003\_4732](https://www.usaspending.gov/award/CONT_AWD_47QFCA24F0009_4732_47QTCK18D0003_4732)
...WTF, America was peddling the COVID misinformation. Like it was official from the Trump government? This should be major news, because it is extremely wtf.
I mean, Trump himself was peddling COVID misinformation so honestly, not that surprising his administration ran with this.
Bleach anyone?
The US establishment has engaged in similar activities for decades by now... Not in any way unique to Trump that shady intelligence operations are used to undermine any US rivals or enemies. This shouldn't surprise anyone. Quite frankly, what surprises me more is the reaction, as if this is not something to be expected from the US.
Politicizing this is definitely a great derailment strategy. You can see it being used on every post about this on reddit.
The haggling over the political angle is really weird to me. The US defense establishment has engaged in this kind of thing for decades without any oversight. I would expect for both parties to be held accountable since this is very much continuing with similar programs.
There's an election going on between the person who was in office when this policy was enacted and the person who took office, his admin requested an investigation and they put a cease to that particular operation. It's also important to note that the US Govt intends to still use the services of GDIT and has additional contracts with them. But for the sake of transparency, in this current US political moment, I felt it important to make the distinction that only one of these two individuals oversaw the end of this horrible operation.
That's me. I'm the one who's going around posting this part of the article, that's buried fairly deep. There may be some others but check my post history. I wanted to make sure that anyone not reading the full story may still see the post, prompting them to actually read it instead of just assuming America = Bad.
Yeah it’s very important but most people won’t even read beyond the headline.
People outside the US don't care about which political party did it.
i think this info is for the americans, considering that their presidential elections are coming up.
Yeah, that's why I chased this story around reddit, like a bot :D, to post this comment. But there will still be skimmers, regardless.
Important for Americans to highlight -- Biden should beat Trump over the head with this for the next six months. But people outside the US aren't obligated to give us a pass just because "the other guys did it." For all they know, the "other guys" will be back in the driver's seat next year.
The Donald Trump administration ran a secret anti-vax campaign to undermine China during pandemic. The Biden administration banned it in spring 2021.
Yep. Trump program Biden shut down. It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, most of the anti-vax talking points used in Western countries originated in a Russian misinformation op intended to weaken *us*. And I'm not even talking just about the Covid vaccine, Russian intelligence started supporting and coordinating the Western anti-vax movement in 2018 or earlier. That messaging was also amplified by the Chinese when they realized Sinovac's Covid-19 vaccine barely worked against Alpha & Beta - which was widely in circulation by the time it was approved - and it was just about completely ineffective against Delta & subsequent variants. Russia's Sputnik-V was long-delayed, most other countries that purchased it never received it, it was even *less* effective than Sinovac's, and they made up all the test data - much of which still hasn't been internationally vetted. As is tradition.
Trump got the vaccine [and a booster](https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-donald-trump-coronavirus-vaccine-74abcd4e6833835f5df445fe2142e22b) pretty early on, so I don't know what to make of him trying to spread lies about it.
Submission statement: the US launched a campaign targeted at countries in Southeast Asia like the Philippines starting in mid 2020 to undermine the Chinese aid. Initially that started as conspiracies around Chinese supplied masks and testing kits, and eventually morphed into anti vax skepticism against Chinese vaccines. However that led to skepticism of all vaccines and made the Philippines the country with the lowest vaccine uptake rate in the entire region.
Callousness of this campaign aside, this demonstrates that: * American disinformation is extremely effective. * Chinese counter-campaign, if any, was extremely weak.
Fast forward a week and people be like why doesn't US use same tactics as Russia/china with respect to propaganda and misinformation. Yes, your good countries do deal in misinformation campaigns amd propaganda. And a lot of these campaigns are still going on and will continue in future. And no, their goals are not really good.
Yep, Russia in particular has been pushing the Western anti-vax movement since 2018, if not earlier. Literally all the talking points they use currently came straight from Prigoshin's bot farms. China joined amplifying that propaganda when Sinovac didn't work very well at all. They both understand that a healthy population is a huge competitive advantage, and their populations are both *incredibly* unhealthy, statistically - Russia in particular where the ~~haircare~~ healthcare system hasn't improved since the 50s. Generally the single least healthy demographic in the world is the Russians. And the fastest aging demographic is the Chinese, though the Ukraine war & domestic difficulties related to it (and Covid still sweeping through a population that *kind of* got vaccinated with a vaccine that barely worked) may push the Russians into first place in the next year or two.
Yup. American disinformation is the biggest and most well funded in the world. Russia is #2.
To be fair, it's way easier to smear than to build up.
I’ll do you one better: • [COUNTRY] disinformation is extremely effective. • [COUNTRY] counter-campaign, if any, was extremely weak. The absolute state of the polarization of US politics isn’t helped by Russian, and likely others’, meddling. The thing with disinformation is that while the seeds are planted by an organized actor, which is relatively easy to watch out for, they are germinated by WhatsApp uncles, FaceBook dads, the Twitter youth, etc. at which point, the equivalent of runaway reaction in chemistry is occurring, and nothing could really stop disinformation at this phase other than extraneously draconian measures.
yeah its extremely hard to counter campaign misinformation, no matter which side does it, its pretty obvious why the US is targeting tiktok to be banned because while the CCP wouldnt directly be involved in sowing misinformation its a perfect breeding ground for it and with some manipulation in the algorithm they can 'organically' grow them
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The submission statement far understate the content of the article, which covers details of the disinformation campaign not only in the Philippines, but also in Russia and middle east. The only thing the article does not touch on, is how effective it was at undermining China's strategy and reputation? Now that this campaign has been revealed, it became known that all major world powers, both democracies and autocracies, engages in disinformation. This would make it even more difficult for the US to claim moral high ground in its competition with China, if it had any to begin with.
> Now that this campaign has been revealed, it became known that all major world powers, both democracies and autocracies, engages in disinformation. That has been known forever. It is just that there is barely an attempt to mask the hypocrisy anymore.
America has stopped having the moral argument decades ago. Except maybe to Americans. Most of the world admires American wealth but the concept of democracy and freedom is dispelled
Well this is like the least terrible thing that the US government has ever done, better think about what other lies about China are widely believed
At this point it doesn’t really matter.
That's why it's seeing the light of the day really. Timing is also perfect to give Biden some much needed PR in foreign policy before the elections.
Speaking of elections, this alleged campaign also appears to implicate interference in Filipino electoral politics because some campaign messages involved Filipino politics and elected politicians. Frankly, I don't really care as an American, that's just something interesting I noticed.
Also not touched upon was China's [own efforts to undermine other vaccines](https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/26/asia/xi-jinping-china-vaccine-intl-hnk/index.html) to try to manipulate developing countries into accepting Chinese vaccines: > China has been praised for its “vaccine diplomacy,” promising shots to developing countries and investing in vaccine candidates that do not require expensive cold storage to be effective. But as questions have been raised over the effectiveness of one of those vaccines, the country’s state media has reacted aggressively, targeting not just critics but also other vaccines, in an apparent effort to tear down their reputation in the name of defending the Chinese shots. > Along with hyping reports of deaths allegedly related to vaccines – a dangerous game that could undermine not only confidence in the Pfizer and Moderna candidates targeted by Chinese media, but all coronavirus shots – China’s propaganda organs have also pushed alternate theories about the origins of the pandemic itself, including a long-debunked claim that it began in a US army lab.
So the message you're sending is US is bad like China.
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Because, surprise surprise, reddit is at the forefront of US propaganda and exceptionalism. Not directly, but moderators and users alike clearly have a pro-US, anti-China bias and it becomes a self enforcing loop. Years ago /R/Geopolitics was one of the last subreddits left where you could have rational conversation without any bias. These days are over with random American teenagers(and likely adults) talking about installing ballistic nukes in Taiwan because of… democracy. lol.
I remember when powermod /u/maxwellhill went offline the moment Ghislaine Maxwell was arrested.
Do you think it was her
I’ve looked at the evidence and it was either her or someone trying to make it seem like her.
Is this for real?
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The media loves both-sides-ing even the most cartoonishly bad things.
The antivax was shut down but the contractor still employed. Presumably pushing other dumb memes instead like getting rid of tiktok.
> General Dynamics IT It's one of our largest contractors, and they were following orders from the administration. I'm more pissed about the person who ordered all this in the first place, they need to be charged with some felonies.
Oliver North was the fall guy for Iran Contra which involved in its fuckery facilitating drug shipments in the USA, violating congressional orders, funding death squads, and he didn't see any jail time Hell instead he was running the NRA until he resigned because they were laundering too much Russian money. " three-year suspended prison term, two years probation, $150,000 in fines, and 1,200 hours of community service." then they reversed the convictions.
> Hell instead he was running the NRA until he resigned because they were laundering too much Russian money. One interesting note is how we pushed back against Chinese vaccines but not Russian ones.
Even if Trump was willing to sabotage Russia, there wasn't much point in attacking their vaccine efforts. Did they ever actually develop an effective vaccine?
I vaguely remember there was poor uptake in Russia, even up through the present invasion wave to Ukraine. Eastern Europe in general had poor reception to vaccines which correlates with poor trust in government.
I remember that at first Russia claimed to have no COVID in the country, then when they couldn't hide it, developed their vaccine in record time. They claimed the vaccine was extremely effective, but [Sputnik Vaccine Efficacy Data Published in Lancet Are ‘Statistically Impossible’](https://healthpolicy-watch.news/sputnik-vaccine-efficacy-data/)
Yeah it was vaguely on par with sinovac: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_V_COVID-19_vaccine
This also reminds of the Afghanistan withdrawal. It was Biden’s administration that physically withdrew from the country, yes, but it was Trump’s administration that set up the whole deal and plan— it just carried over to Biden’s presidency.
A new aspect of covert cold war I suppose, at least fitting into the current media if not new in idea, easier, I suppose, than earlier similar efforts before the internet and social media
Anyone know how this is playing in the Philippines? I checked a Filipino few news sites but didn't see it on any front pages
Why is making China look bad more important than the lives of people in Philippines? If China is objectively bad this shouldn't be necessary.
Because the purpose of propaganda and foreign intervention is not for the benefit of those foreign peoples, but for the benefit of the originating entity’s interests
Because most Americans don't think that Filipinos are people. Half of America doesn't even think that African Americans or LGBT Americans are people.
Mistrust for China will usually mean a more favorable view for the US, which could be useful for an alliance to contain China. However, China is largely making itself look bad already by, for example, harassing Filipino vessels in the South China sea. The gains of that campaign probably were minimal, if any, and came at a heavy cost for the Philippines.
China is bad but they aren't the cartoon villains the US would love to have to fight against so they fear mongeeed against them to make them look like that. It's as if the only news we got of the US was about their war crimes and shady CIA operation like this one. Oh also as if the ones that were very stupid were incredibly effective in reality
Is it really any surprise then when China becomes hostile to US due to US policies such as spreading misinformation and trade war against China?
...You realize this has been going back and forth for decades right?
> The Pentagon’s anti-vax propaganda came in response to China’s own efforts to spread false information about the origins of COVID. The virus first emerged in China in late 2019. But in March 2020, Chinese government officials claimed without evidence that the virus may have been first brought to China by an American service member who participated in an international military sports competition in Wuhan the previous year. Chinese officials also suggested that the virus may have originated in a U.S. Army research facility at Fort Detrick, Maryland. There’s no evidence for that assertion. . > Mirroring Beijing’s public statements, Chinese intelligence operatives set up networks of fake social media accounts to promote the Fort Detrick conspiracy, according to a U.S. Justice Department complaint. The new Cold War between U.S. & China is going to have casualties. So be it
I’m not actually shocked that the US is doing stuff other countries are doing too.
[Sounds familiar](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/global-pulse/2021/01/28/what-chinas-vax-trolling-adds-up-to-491548): > While China observers said the exact purpose of the vaccine smear campaign isn’t clear, that’s almost beside the point. In just a few weeks, it’s already seeding doubts about the safety of shots from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna, providing talking points for vaccine skeptics in the United States and giving countries rhetorical cover to purchase Chinese-made vaccines that appear to be less effective than the two leading Western ones. > Claims that the Pfizer and Moderna shots are risky or even deadly have been boosted by headlines from nationalist Chinese media and in remarks from Chinese officials. The head of China’s Center for Disease Control and Prevention raised eyebrows when he questioned the safety of the mRNA shots. Here in Taiwan, the Chinese straight up [blocked our access to BioNTech vaccines](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/business/taiwan-china-biontech-vaccine.html) for a year and told us we can have their vaccines instead. People forget or don't wish to acknowledge how aggressively the Chinese [weaponized vaccine access and information](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8776365/) but predictably feign outrage when it comes out that other vaccine makers were responding in kind.
Never happened. BNT sold the rights for sales and distribution in Greater China, which included Taiwan, to Fosun Pharma. Taiwan tried to buy directly from BNT, who understandably went "Gosh, we'd love to sell to you but we already made a deal for exclusive rights with Fosun". The Tsai government then decided it was more important to not be seen buying them from a Chinese company and than it was to procure vaccines, then proceeded to try and blame China for their own unwillingness to deal with Fosun.
BS. China browbeat BNT into delaying a deal indefinitely with Taiwan, just like they pressured developing countries with Taiwan relations to accept "one China" before receiving vaccines. The record is clear and the only ones still buying the story you're peddling here are Chinese and tankies. China's "vaccine diplomacy" stands alongside its wolf warrior diplomacy in the books.
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The US didn't block anyone from receiving vaccines or [attach strings to vaccine deliveries](https://www.csis.org/analysis/china-exploiting-pandemic-advance-its-interests-mixed-results).
Please don't allow emotions to lead you down the wrong path. Despite what (apparently) happened, it does not mean the Chinese vaccine was more effective than we were led to believe. It objectively undisputed that the Chinese vaccine is much less effective than the ones created by United States companies.
It's not about vaccine efficiency, but about an antivaxx propaganda. If that article is true, then people who started that operation are partially responsible for thousands, if not millions of deaths worldwide. Even inside the US antivaxxers are probably responsible for many, many deaths.
I mean, 66000 deaths in Philippines. So not quite millions- but several thousand probably.
China and Russia props up anti-vaxx in the US, the US props up anti-vaxx in China and Russia. Sounds like there is no good guy on that one...
Your logic doesn't hold up because the American vaccines were/are available in the Philippines.
Did you even read the article? This sick propagated campaign definitely killed people.
Did YOU read the article? The messaging was specifically against the Chinese vaccine. Not the western ones.
The western vaccines weren't available. Everyone not in a rich country remembers this very clearly; rich countries kept their vaccines to vax their own people and there were none available for export. This in itself is okay. It was a bad situation. Everyone understands. But then they were also peddling disinfo about the vaccines from China which were available becaues China was able to manufacture them at greater scale.
are you claiming Sinovax was equally or more effective than American vaccines?
>The Biden White House issued an edict in spring 2021 banning the anti-vax effort, **which also disparaged vaccines produced by other rivals**, and the Pentagon initiated an internal review, Reuters found. >Academic research published recently has shown that, when individuals develop skepticism toward a single vaccine, **those doubts often lead to uncertainty about other inoculations.** >When he addressed the vaccination issue, the Philippines had among the worst inoculation rates in Southeast Asia. Only 2.1 million of its 114 million citizens were fully vaccinated – far short of the government’s target of 70 million. By the time Duterte spoke, COVID cases exceeded 1.3 million, and almost 24,000 Filipinos had died from the virus. The difficulty in vaccinating the population contributed to the worst death rate in the region. You certainly didn't.
You are cherry picking very hard. Look at the actual alleged propaganda. The twitter post at the beginning of the article: >"Do you want that? COVID came from China and vaccines came from China" Another tweet cited >“COVID came from China and the VACCINE also came from China, don’t trust China!” Also cited: allegations the propaganda said the CHINESE vaccine contained pork gelatin. And so on and so on. The point is - this was clearly targeted towards the Chinese-produced COVID vaccine. It was not holistically against ALL COVID vaccines, and definitely not anti-ALL vaccines.
Sowing distrust in one vaccine inevitably leads to distrust in all vaccines, as professional research implies, as referenced by the article. Your the one essentially claiming that research is invalid based off an assumption. The journalist who wrote this is ahead of you logically
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The statement made by the person you are replying to is correct. Which actually makes me wonder if you read the article. The article didn't say that the campaign targeted all vaccines, but it said that once you create skepticism on one vaccine, people are more likely to develop a skepticism to all vaccines. From the article: >Academic research published recently has shown that, when individuals develop skepticism toward a single vaccine, those doubts often lead to uncertainty about other inoculations. Disclaimer because this is Reddit - I'm not saying that what the US has been apparently doing is good, just advocating for more precise language on what they have been doing.
I still believe American vaccines were more effective, but this news, if true, is still bad for the United States' reputation. During the time this campaign allegedly took place, there were not enough American vaccines available for everyone even in the United States (I could not get mine until late spring of 2021). Therefore, it appears unlikely that there would have been enough American vaccines for every Filipino person. Filipinos who did not have access to an American vaccine might have had to choose between taking a Chinese vaccine or nothing at all. Unless we can prove that the Chinese vaccines were completely useless or were actually harmful overall, then it would appear that this campaign put lives at risk.
Now this is a thoughtful reaction - thank you. That said, it was already proven, the Chinese vaccine was less effective. [You can read it from a Singapore government source here](https://www.ncid.sg/News-Events/News/Pages/Sinovac-jabs-not-as-effective-in-preventing-severe-disease-S%E2%80%99pore-study.aspx)
Are you a bot trained to spread the message of the Chinese vaccine's lower effectiveness? I have already said I believe the vaccine was less effective. You are preaching to the choir on this issue. What needs to be proven to avoid being responsible for putting lives at risk is that the Chinese vaccine was *completely useless or actually harmful overall*, not merely that it was *less effective.* Unless it was useless or actually harmful, less effective is still likely better than taking no vaccine at all.
Not a bot. So by your logic, people in the Philippines were against ALL vaccines just because they learned one of the choices was bad. In your city if one of the 100 restaurants was removed because it was bad, does that mean everyone is starving? And let me ask you, which vaccine do you have?
>people in the Philippines were against ALL vaccines I never claimed this. You are attacking a straw man. You have either failed to understand my assertions and reasoning or are deliberately deflecting to push your own message. I'm sure most Filipinos would have loved to take an American vaccine, but there were simply not enough American vaccines for everyone. Anyone who could not get an American vaccine likely had to choose between taking an inferior Chinese vaccine or no vaccine at all. If you were starving, and all of those restaurants were full for the next few months except for the bad one, would you eat at the bad restaurant or go without food for the next few months? I took Pfizer which, along with the Moderna vaccine, is considered to be the most effective or potent vaccine. I have a few friends who were not able to get a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, so they had to get the only available Johnson & Johnson vaccine that was considered less effective than Pfizer or Moderna at the time. Should I have told them to not take Johnson & Johnson because it was less effective?
Would you have taken the Chinese vaccine?
I would have taken it if I had to choose between the Chinese vaccine and no vaccine at all. Your link a few comments ago said that the Chinese vaccine was only 60% effective. 60% is preferable to 0%.
But that wasn't the case. Just the [US](https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/u-s-international-covid-19-vaccine-donations-tracker/#recipient-country) alone gave 33,600,000 COVID vaccines to the Philippines (total). People in the Philipines weren't a scenario where they had to chose between thr China vaccine and no vaccine.
There were over 112 million people in the Philippines in 2020. Even if we assume all 33 million vaccines from the United States were delivered at once as soon as the vaccine was developed (doubtful), were the other 78 million Filipinos still able to get American vaccines within the relevant timeframe? If they did, how did they get them before most Americans got an American vaccine?
>The U.S. military launched a clandestine program amid the COVID crisis to discredit China’s Sinovac inoculation – payback for Beijing’s efforts to blame Washington for the pandemic. One target: the Filipino public. Health experts say the gambit was indefensible and put innocent lives at risk. So they were pushing US vaccines? That doesn't sound like something Trump would do. I don't think negative views on China's vaccine needed help.
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