You’re right, and I don’t think it’s limited to the city centre.
I was recently at a steakhouse on the outskirts of Glasgow - nice area and a nice restaurant in general - where it was £35 for a 220g fillet steak. The food was average at best.
On a recent trip to London, we ate at a top end steakhouse in Mayfair where a 240g fillet was £36 - only £1 more. You could taste the quality difference.
As I understand, business rates relief remains in England, but not in Scotland, which may go some way to explain your observations.
I'll say this, London used to feel comparatively expensive to here when I visited.
The last few years there's been a shift where first it felt just a wee bit more expensive, then about on a par. Which feels kind of wild given people in London are paid more than here.
I think the op is referring to the fact that London is on par with Glasgow for prices if not cheaper comparitavely.
I think one o the main reasons is the aforementioned energy prices pushing everything up but made only worse in Scotland by the fact that business rate relief has jot been passed on to businesses in Scotland.
Not sure how it works but I think (please correct me if I am wrong) but all businesses were getting a 75% business rates relief during this crisis.
However, the Scottish government has decided to keep the rebate and not pass it on to businesses.
I have seen Michael Bergson talk about it quite a lot. This is not to defend him, as the guy is a bit of a nutter (and very biased/ anti snp) but if it's true, it's true!
That could explain it as like the OP, historically Glasgow would have been a lot cheaper for food than London.
Not if you lived there and can spend enough time to get to know what'savailable. I lived in Glasgow, then London then back to Glasgow.
While in London we could eat out at a wide range of restaurants, eating foods from all over the world, many not on offer in Glasgow, at prices on a par or less than Glasgow. African, S America etc.
Having lived in both cities, I eat more international food in Glasgow because it's so much more accessible. In London I could eat Turkish and Kurdish food near me, but if I wanted Korean? An hour on the tube. Chinese? At least 30 minutes to get there. And there's great Chinese food in Glasgow, better than I ever had in London. I will give you South American, though.
I’d really like an unbiased look under the hood at just how much (or little) money these places make. Bergson was just starting his daily rants about hospitality being crushed when he was opening another couple of branches I think?
I feel for the small solo operations that struggle disproportionally with rising costs, but I sometimes wonder about the chains and mid sized operators - are they actually struggling? Or are they struggling to afford their next expansion, or new Porsche…
To be fair people would be surprised at how little a difference in prices there is between here and London now, I remember feeling like it was mad dear in London years ago but lately I have actually been wondering if glasgow venues are taking the piss.
That's what I feel, I had some amazing food for £20-25 for a couple of plates. Not been out in Glasgow for a while and looked at places for a birthday dinner, shocked at what places are charging.
Probably a lot more competitive down there too which will influence prices, but I ate like a king while I was down for not very much.
The place where food prices are getting out of hands is on delivery platforms. It has almost doubled in some restaurants and in almost all cases it's 30 or 40% more expensive than it was 2 years ago. Crazy
I can handle the inflation for often I eat out, but what gets me is the gulf in Glasgow between service and quality.
Post lockdown, obviously so many solid hospitality staff went elsewhere and have (understandably) been replaced with low experience staff who seem to get zero support or training.
Electricty up, gas is up, wages are up, price of ingredients up. It stands to reason that the price of eating out is up. Like you I hanker for pre covid prices but I think they are gone for good.
I get the perspective, but imho the ones that survive will be the ones that up their game in line with prices.
You can't do a great deal with fixed costs. But for £11.44+ ph I'd be ensuring some quality service/cooking. Can't expect people to repeat business at inflated prices for the same old shit.
I get all the arguments in terms of pricing etc. But at the same time, you can't defeat human nature. Paying more for the same or less isn't a sustainable business model. Those that up the game or provide something different will survive, those that charge the same or more for less, won't.
Simple case in point...domino's couldn't do a half and half pizza due to covid, prices could go up...explain that to me? One pizza drone can't do the same pizza? We can't have half and half because they can't stand together? Lol
So you want *more* out of staff, because the NMW (the absolute bare minimum, legal rate people need to survive) has risen to £11.44 per hour?
Your true colours are shining through here, amigo.
Also your 'pizza drone' comment is very demeaning, and kind of reinforces the point above.
I don't see why you view that as more out of staff purely rather than it being a duty or commercial reality on the employer to upskill and train staff.
I am not suggesting staff have to work harder and for the most part would say staff in a high end restaurant for example, will get paid the same hourly rate as those in other establishments. The difference in income would more likely be through tips in that particular example.
I understand your point regarding minimum wage, but that's my whole issue with the system as it is. Employers view it as a burden, which is unfair because as you say, it is an absolute minimum people can survive on, rather than live. On the other side, cost of living etc means people are squeezed in terms of their ability to afford services etc and are now paying far more for essentially what they used to pay less for. With fixed operating costs rising, it is obviously unsustainable to not increase prices. So as far as I can see it, the only thing businesses can do, is improve experience along with an increased price to remain competitive. The hospitality sector in particular is going through challenges as customers are falling away from spending to pay more for the same experience.
I think the conversation needs to move to employers investing more in their staff alongside the wage rise. Employers benefit from increased customer experience. Customers benefit from the same. Employees benefit from enhanced skills.
Point taken re the pizza comment, a poor attempt at humour and clearly comes across cunty.
A measured response, with the added bonus of a minor retraction by at the end. An appreciated rarity in this sphere.
I do disagree re the rate being the same in higher end establishments. The sector is fighting for the best staff and I've seen a difference between them and lower end eateries, sometimes £1-1.50 p/h difference in basic rate. Tips will always be variable and dependent on the paying customer, so respectfully, I don't really see that as relevant to the main point I was making.
You make a valid point re upskilling, but if we're honest, a skilled hospitality worker will always have a 'skills ceiling', most have already acquired the relevant skills and honed them over years. It's just a really underpaid job and scapegoating their lack of skills as *one* of the main issues facing hospitality is way off the mark in my humble opinion.
I know a few restaurateurs and this def isn't the first time I've heard complaints about the £11.44 rate being unaffordable. It's usually followed up by a denigrating remark about what 'unskilled staff' are actually worth. Called it out and lost an aquaintence over it.
Any shortfall in a business profitability is the owners responsibility.
That is most definitely not the employees fault and it is incumbent on the business owner to resolve this, not the staff. Asking the staff to do more, because of a legally mandated wage rise, is not on. They haven't been promoted, they have had a wage uplift in line with exorbitant cost of living, rent and general inflation across the board.
I was eating at Yo!Sushi the other day and two pretty small bowls of Beef Teriyaki, 5 pieces of Korean Fried Chicken, and 6 tiny maki came to over £50!
With Maki and Ramen, nanakusa, ESushi, mikaku, Hanami, and Yippon on your doorstep, why would you go to Yo Sushi. You’d need a large stomach to get to £50 at any of those places (well except Hanami if you eat the Wagyu…)
Used to love the one in partick.
Although, if I remember correctly, it was at the centre of a scandal with illegal workers or something a few years ago.
I went there recently and it was the most tasteless Japanese place I've tried here and when I said that it was pretty tasteless they didn't even really apologise, not that I was looking for anything though
Absolutely there is a rise in costs and for some reason it’s just expected that we the consumer pay the price. It’s not just restaurants, it’s everywhere you go the prices are going up and quality is going down.
Oh aye, that hypothetical campervan spending totally bankrupted me. Nah, wait, that was actually me losing my right to live and work in the EU, and last time I checked the SNP were the only major anti-Brexit party left. Fuck off.
Are we blaming the conservative party for Brexit and COVID? I thought that was the Chinese and England n Wales?
It's not like the Conservatives really wanted either.
Yes, I'm blaming the Conservatives for Brexit. They were elected on a mandate to hold the referendum, they implemented it (in the most fucked up way possible) and it was their internal shite that caused the whole thing to be a n issue in the first place. No, Covid wasn't caused by them, but their response actively exacerbated the situation and their mismanagement of the NHS and other public services, as well as their years of austerity, cost countless lives. They never wanted either? I honestly don't think they could have cared less.
I've just been in London for work and visited three high quality, medium end spots that were all priced the same or only slightly more than comparable Glasgow meals. With the Chinese in particular being way better than a sit down place here. Drinking down there is still more expensive though.
Think it very much depends where you choose, there's plenty of below average overpriced food in London, had a bang average burger and chips for 20 quid near Bank
Likewise, there's a lot of great value places in Glasgow, particularly midweek
Good Pho for example is the same price and often cheaper in London. I put a lot of this down to labour economics and competition. There is a higher availability of immigrant staff in London plus many more places offering similar food.
I have stopped eating out in Glasgow now, stick to my local area which is never more than £25 p/p with a drink.
Glasgow has went beyond obscene with pricing. The Citizen was £7 a pint the other week. Of Tennents!!
I’ve felt this too - too many bang average places hiking the prices of drinks to £6+ and then will be posting all over social media complaining that people are spending less.
I once had a 3 course breakfast in the shard with free refills and it was 40 quid. I recently got breakfast, orange juice and a latte in some wanky west end cafe and it was nearly £27
People in Spain get paid a lot less. Spaniards probably go to Greece and comment that prices are much cheaper than at home, Greeks do the same in Bulgaria, etc etc
You’re right, and I don’t think it’s limited to the city centre. I was recently at a steakhouse on the outskirts of Glasgow - nice area and a nice restaurant in general - where it was £35 for a 220g fillet steak. The food was average at best. On a recent trip to London, we ate at a top end steakhouse in Mayfair where a 240g fillet was £36 - only £1 more. You could taste the quality difference. As I understand, business rates relief remains in England, but not in Scotland, which may go some way to explain your observations.
I'll say this, London used to feel comparatively expensive to here when I visited. The last few years there's been a shift where first it felt just a wee bit more expensive, then about on a par. Which feels kind of wild given people in London are paid more than here.
I think the op is referring to the fact that London is on par with Glasgow for prices if not cheaper comparitavely. I think one o the main reasons is the aforementioned energy prices pushing everything up but made only worse in Scotland by the fact that business rate relief has jot been passed on to businesses in Scotland. Not sure how it works but I think (please correct me if I am wrong) but all businesses were getting a 75% business rates relief during this crisis. However, the Scottish government has decided to keep the rebate and not pass it on to businesses. I have seen Michael Bergson talk about it quite a lot. This is not to defend him, as the guy is a bit of a nutter (and very biased/ anti snp) but if it's true, it's true! That could explain it as like the OP, historically Glasgow would have been a lot cheaper for food than London.
Not if you lived there and can spend enough time to get to know what'savailable. I lived in Glasgow, then London then back to Glasgow. While in London we could eat out at a wide range of restaurants, eating foods from all over the world, many not on offer in Glasgow, at prices on a par or less than Glasgow. African, S America etc.
Having lived in both cities, I eat more international food in Glasgow because it's so much more accessible. In London I could eat Turkish and Kurdish food near me, but if I wanted Korean? An hour on the tube. Chinese? At least 30 minutes to get there. And there's great Chinese food in Glasgow, better than I ever had in London. I will give you South American, though.
This just in! Glasgow smaller than London shocker!
Why post something like this?
I’d really like an unbiased look under the hood at just how much (or little) money these places make. Bergson was just starting his daily rants about hospitality being crushed when he was opening another couple of branches I think? I feel for the small solo operations that struggle disproportionally with rising costs, but I sometimes wonder about the chains and mid sized operators - are they actually struggling? Or are they struggling to afford their next expansion, or new Porsche…
To be fair people would be surprised at how little a difference in prices there is between here and London now, I remember feeling like it was mad dear in London years ago but lately I have actually been wondering if glasgow venues are taking the piss.
That's what I feel, I had some amazing food for £20-25 for a couple of plates. Not been out in Glasgow for a while and looked at places for a birthday dinner, shocked at what places are charging. Probably a lot more competitive down there too which will influence prices, but I ate like a king while I was down for not very much.
The place where food prices are getting out of hands is on delivery platforms. It has almost doubled in some restaurants and in almost all cases it's 30 or 40% more expensive than it was 2 years ago. Crazy
I can handle the inflation for often I eat out, but what gets me is the gulf in Glasgow between service and quality. Post lockdown, obviously so many solid hospitality staff went elsewhere and have (understandably) been replaced with low experience staff who seem to get zero support or training.
Electricty up, gas is up, wages are up, price of ingredients up. It stands to reason that the price of eating out is up. Like you I hanker for pre covid prices but I think they are gone for good.
I get the perspective, but imho the ones that survive will be the ones that up their game in line with prices. You can't do a great deal with fixed costs. But for £11.44+ ph I'd be ensuring some quality service/cooking. Can't expect people to repeat business at inflated prices for the same old shit. I get all the arguments in terms of pricing etc. But at the same time, you can't defeat human nature. Paying more for the same or less isn't a sustainable business model. Those that up the game or provide something different will survive, those that charge the same or more for less, won't. Simple case in point...domino's couldn't do a half and half pizza due to covid, prices could go up...explain that to me? One pizza drone can't do the same pizza? We can't have half and half because they can't stand together? Lol
So you want *more* out of staff, because the NMW (the absolute bare minimum, legal rate people need to survive) has risen to £11.44 per hour? Your true colours are shining through here, amigo. Also your 'pizza drone' comment is very demeaning, and kind of reinforces the point above.
I don't see why you view that as more out of staff purely rather than it being a duty or commercial reality on the employer to upskill and train staff. I am not suggesting staff have to work harder and for the most part would say staff in a high end restaurant for example, will get paid the same hourly rate as those in other establishments. The difference in income would more likely be through tips in that particular example. I understand your point regarding minimum wage, but that's my whole issue with the system as it is. Employers view it as a burden, which is unfair because as you say, it is an absolute minimum people can survive on, rather than live. On the other side, cost of living etc means people are squeezed in terms of their ability to afford services etc and are now paying far more for essentially what they used to pay less for. With fixed operating costs rising, it is obviously unsustainable to not increase prices. So as far as I can see it, the only thing businesses can do, is improve experience along with an increased price to remain competitive. The hospitality sector in particular is going through challenges as customers are falling away from spending to pay more for the same experience. I think the conversation needs to move to employers investing more in their staff alongside the wage rise. Employers benefit from increased customer experience. Customers benefit from the same. Employees benefit from enhanced skills. Point taken re the pizza comment, a poor attempt at humour and clearly comes across cunty.
A measured response, with the added bonus of a minor retraction by at the end. An appreciated rarity in this sphere. I do disagree re the rate being the same in higher end establishments. The sector is fighting for the best staff and I've seen a difference between them and lower end eateries, sometimes £1-1.50 p/h difference in basic rate. Tips will always be variable and dependent on the paying customer, so respectfully, I don't really see that as relevant to the main point I was making. You make a valid point re upskilling, but if we're honest, a skilled hospitality worker will always have a 'skills ceiling', most have already acquired the relevant skills and honed them over years. It's just a really underpaid job and scapegoating their lack of skills as *one* of the main issues facing hospitality is way off the mark in my humble opinion. I know a few restaurateurs and this def isn't the first time I've heard complaints about the £11.44 rate being unaffordable. It's usually followed up by a denigrating remark about what 'unskilled staff' are actually worth. Called it out and lost an aquaintence over it. Any shortfall in a business profitability is the owners responsibility. That is most definitely not the employees fault and it is incumbent on the business owner to resolve this, not the staff. Asking the staff to do more, because of a legally mandated wage rise, is not on. They haven't been promoted, they have had a wage uplift in line with exorbitant cost of living, rent and general inflation across the board.
I was eating at Yo!Sushi the other day and two pretty small bowls of Beef Teriyaki, 5 pieces of Korean Fried Chicken, and 6 tiny maki came to over £50!
There's your mistake, you ate at Yo!Sushi, once they got rid of the conveyor belt plates that franchise was dead to me
I miss the old system, have no idea what’s spinning round the restaurant and how long it’s been on it for so I hardly ever get anything from it now
With Maki and Ramen, nanakusa, ESushi, mikaku, Hanami, and Yippon on your doorstep, why would you go to Yo Sushi. You’d need a large stomach to get to £50 at any of those places (well except Hanami if you eat the Wagyu…)
Why does everyone forget about Ichiban, took my mum there at the weekend, 5 people, all getting mains, sides and drinks, came out to £25 pp.
Used to love the one in partick. Although, if I remember correctly, it was at the centre of a scandal with illegal workers or something a few years ago.
I went there recently and it was the most tasteless Japanese place I've tried here and when I said that it was pretty tasteless they didn't even really apologise, not that I was looking for anything though
Nippon Kitchen is right across the road and is basically in a different class altogether.
I forgot Nippon Kitchen. I have to prefer Maki and Ramen or Esushi however.
Jeezy peeps mate
Absolutely there is a rise in costs and for some reason it’s just expected that we the consumer pay the price. It’s not just restaurants, it’s everywhere you go the prices are going up and quality is going down.
Definitely more expensive since Brexit and other Tory fuck ups. Then there's shrinkflation, the cost of running a food business, etc.
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Oh aye, that hypothetical campervan spending totally bankrupted me. Nah, wait, that was actually me losing my right to live and work in the EU, and last time I checked the SNP were the only major anti-Brexit party left. Fuck off.
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Not defending SNP corruption, just putting it in perspective. Brexit and Tory policies ruined this place, not a fucking campervan.
More expensive than in England as well, thanks Tories.
Are we blaming the conservative party for Brexit and COVID? I thought that was the Chinese and England n Wales? It's not like the Conservatives really wanted either.
Yes, I'm blaming the Conservatives for Brexit. They were elected on a mandate to hold the referendum, they implemented it (in the most fucked up way possible) and it was their internal shite that caused the whole thing to be a n issue in the first place. No, Covid wasn't caused by them, but their response actively exacerbated the situation and their mismanagement of the NHS and other public services, as well as their years of austerity, cost countless lives. They never wanted either? I honestly don't think they could have cared less.
Prices in Glasgow restaurants seem to be going up and up and up!
I've just been in London for work and visited three high quality, medium end spots that were all priced the same or only slightly more than comparable Glasgow meals. With the Chinese in particular being way better than a sit down place here. Drinking down there is still more expensive though.
Think it very much depends where you choose, there's plenty of below average overpriced food in London, had a bang average burger and chips for 20 quid near Bank Likewise, there's a lot of great value places in Glasgow, particularly midweek
Good Pho for example is the same price and often cheaper in London. I put a lot of this down to labour economics and competition. There is a higher availability of immigrant staff in London plus many more places offering similar food.
I have stopped eating out in Glasgow now, stick to my local area which is never more than £25 p/p with a drink. Glasgow has went beyond obscene with pricing. The Citizen was £7 a pint the other week. Of Tennents!!
I’ve felt this too - too many bang average places hiking the prices of drinks to £6+ and then will be posting all over social media complaining that people are spending less.
I once had a 3 course breakfast in the shard with free refills and it was 40 quid. I recently got breakfast, orange juice and a latte in some wanky west end cafe and it was nearly £27
P
Prices in Glasgow restaurants seem to be going up and up and up!
Was in Lanzarote recently and the prices in pure tourist traps were still cheaper than Glasgow these days.
Minimum wage in Lanzarote is the equivalent of £986.62/month. Even assuming 37.5 hours a week, the same in Glasgow would be about £1,859/month.
People in Spain get paid a lot less. Spaniards probably go to Greece and comment that prices are much cheaper than at home, Greeks do the same in Bulgaria, etc etc
where do bulgarians do it
Armenia or Georgia
Sadly they have to charge more just to stay afloat. The industry is in crisis
I'm not convinced of that. I think these restaurants have taken advantage of the situation and artificially and unnecessarily put their prices up.
The owners all seem to run about in £80k though...
Not true for most (if any) of the owners that I know