Tbf, this isn't a uniquely goth problem.
People who find someone else physically attractive always instil some doubt that there is over appreciation of their looks whether that's based on a dress style, body type or otherwise.
Everyone may potentially be fetishized by someone else. If you changed wardrobe fully tomorrow there's a good chance you'd still have the same problem, be you woman, man, nb, gay, straight, bi, pan, asexual... everyone always seems to think this is a unique problem to them because the don't talk to other people. If they did, they would realize everyone struggles with this.
i like goth women because i myself am goth and that's just what i grew up liking i then got into the music and the culture as a whole not because the internet told me to. I don't fetishize women for being goth but if i don't like your personality i wont try to get into a romantic relationship just because you happen to look a certain way. that's just my 2 cents
Thank you brother you pretty much said it for me and said it really well. I’m also no even single so I’m not looking for anyone I’ve been alt my entire life and being a black goth man doesn’t make things much much easier to be accepted however I’ve never taken that as a way to reduce my interest of attraction to style of dress and music choice. I’ve met plenty women who “dress the part” claim they “love the cure” but totally just aren’t for me because of personality or etc etc again I’m not single so I don’t look anyway with the intention to grow anything other than a curious look or two but yeah it’s crazy the way things can be sometimes. Respect the women man ! And protect them too !
I think a good test is to see how he treats you without goth makeup. Don't wear anything goth on the first date. Try to dress as non-goth as possible. If all that excitement and enthusiasm goes away then you got your answer!
I'm not a goth girl but I do appreciate the artistry of it all. The thing is, I see nothing but complaints about the sexualization from goth girls. They clearly don't like it yet the Internet still sexualizes them
here:
1. E-girls/the era when tiktok actually became tiktok (2018-20).
not necessarily always the girls themselves, bc i dont think its right to blame all of them for weirdos, but considering some of them are now associated w/ incel, anime 4-chan culture, & E-girl fashion takes notes from a lot of alternative fashion (in a more corporate manner), theyre now used as the image of a goth or alt girl for internet brainrot users.. even though its mostly music.
2. I guess that weird stereotype of ppl associating goth, or even just alternative-looking women with being promiscuous, aggressive & automatically connecting it to f3tish gear. Even if this is seen as "hot" now it's still pretty generalizing, & sometimes used in a misogynistic, demeaning manner but trying to be seen as positive
3. women will almost always be objectified/sexualized no matter what
(There's also way more factors to this that intersect into other things beyond just goth media)
It pre-dates TikTok and e-girls. Back in the early 2000s half the goth (or at least "goth") girls on Livejournal were trying to launch modelling careers via Suicide Girls and become the next Dita von Teese.
oh i know. but in terms of modern internet i think e-girl culture has a role in some of it, esp the BTGGF meme & more specifically the heavy incel 4chan meme group association (that are often the ones objectifying these women)
Forgive me to say this and i hope I don't come off as rude
But aren't lots of people (posers) use the fact that this is profitable and their success contribute to more of the fetishism and all that comes with it?
Like as much as i hate defending those incels, IF there would be no enablers "Sellers" those scumbag buyers wouldn't be as big/widespread of an issue
The posers who profiteer of the fetishism of our subculture are as much at fault as those incels & normies who abuse & objectify the goth image
I understand where you're coming from. My point was mostly that I'm not comfortable with generalizing all E-girls, & moreso that they're not the only ppl to blame bc as long as there's ppl buying it, it will continue. they know there's just a general market & demand for it
Atleast from my knowledge the egirl thing mostly started off as a cringey trend. It didn't seem to be inherently sexual but got more & more suggestive esp with people like Belle Delphine, who I do feel like is actually one of the big contributors to this ngl
But yeah I do agree that all of this does contribute to it
It pre-dates even goth itself.
It goes all the way back to the rock and metal scenes in the 70's and 80's.
Big hair, dark makeup, tight/torn/tattered clothes, leather, straps, exposed bras and all that.
The promiscuous stereotype was born of the fact that groupies were very front and center in those scenes, some of them were almost as famous as the bands themselves.
And it wasn't just groupies around world famous rock/metal groups, even small local rock/metal groups had their own groupies, girls that the bands would pass around because they (the girls) wanted to be included in the scene. Hell, even garbage garage bands had small cliques of groupies.
When goth came around it was a sort of evolution of that look and culture. The music changed from the thrash/death metal music to stuff like The Cure.
Also it was that goth/emo was seen as the expression of girls with little self-respect due to the "suicidal", nothing really matters attitude that was perceived as part of goth/emo culture. So many people, mostly men, that weren't actually part of the culture deluded themselves into thinking goth/emo girls were easy because they lacked any kind of self-respect/esteem.
I would argue it goes all the way back to medieval Europe and the stereotyping of witches as dangerous temptresses by Catholics. Most modern subcultures have their roots in ancient societies, like paganism. The counterculture movement of the 70s is just a flavor of paganism.
i know 4chan is old. was just saying e-girls got sucked into that whole culture & were eventually associated with a pre-established space of toxic ppl (4chan, incels & the like)
Yeah that's the actual answer. No matter what we do we're sexualized. Washing dishes, doing chores, working out, wearing jeans, wearing shorts, we're sexualized no matter what
This isn't true. Goth men ( especially goth models ) are massively fetishized as well. In fact goth men are fetishized by goth women. Look at Instagram comments
if it's goths sexualising other goths is it fetishization? i'm iffy on that classification. because as you've said i see this all the time,particularly among the younger crowd online
Of course it can still be fetishization. It's going to depend on the circumstance, but to the extent of the comments under some I've seen, it can't be called anything else.
Spend a week on Facebook dating as a goth guy before you draw that conclusion. I've been on there for a few months trying to find a serious relationship (have it in there on the bio) and all I'll get is girls who think because I'm a goth guy that I'm up for anything which already depletes a pool of finite people seeking a serious relationship as well (or I'm just not good looking enough to match with that finite number and only leaves people seeking non-serious things, which isn't a fair answer either).
In short, it's terrible all around for a goth anything I feel.
Exactly...feminity and feminine characteristics are always the problem for a patriarchal society, if something is feminine, they immediately objectify it and relate it to only sexual pleasures
i have a few friends who are goth guys who are pretty good looking. i of course hype them up and compliment them and they get a lot of attention too, but yeah as a whole we're not sexualized as much
couple of reasons:
1. a lot of ppl *think* goth is a fashion sub-culture and the fashion is popular with woman looking to launch a modeling/porn career
2. there's the association with the BDSM community and 9 times out of 10 they are just confusing the two communities
3. the goth gf meme doesn't have a fixed personality allowing ppl to project their own personality onto it (keeping the meme popular even among none-perverts/idiots which helps the longevity of it)
4. goth fashion just looks nice
5. the goth community is popular with women, has a darker edge to it but also doesn't have a negative reputation as a dating pool.
I think American society in general has this fetish for those of us who occupy the fringes. Everything from criminality to the gothic. It's like people see who we are and find something taboo in our mere existence, and they're attracted to it.
"Corn" took me a second to figure out, and I was thinking of the different colored corn cobs you can get, and thinking how cool it would be to get a rainbow cob of corn.
Because those on the fringes are perceived to have fewer inhibitions.
The pretty girl or handsome man that drinks whiskey straight from the bottle and smashes motel rooms turns people on because they're seen as wild and rebellious and well, wild and rebellious is often perceived as promiscuous.
At goth clubs? I mean Gogo cube dancers are part of the package of the club scene in general. I personally find it annoying and would rather have authentic and meaningful conversions while being smashed and incoherent lol
Kinda feels like we men just sexualize and fetishize pretty much anything.
Goths, asian women, latinas .... you name it and you will probably find a decently sized community fetishizing them. Especially compared to ethnic fetishization I think the people fetishizing goth women is rather small tbh.
I had a half japanese girlfriend a few years back and the amount of stories she told (and some I was even present for) of men hitting on her making it implicitly clear that it was mainly because they had "a thing" for asians was eye opening.
I think as long as we attach positive virtues which empower women, it’s ok to celebrate goddesses as idols as long as they are not objectified. Women are far more beautiful than men but we also have to remember physical beauty is only skin deep. This all sounds great until evil dick awakes :o
As an ace goth, this bothers me a lot. I mean there definitely are some ladies who are into fetish goth (no judgments, y'all do you) and stuff like that but it's really aggravating to have people assume that all goths are into that. I don't mind btggf jokes but it becomes a problem when the jokes and stereotypes lead to sexual harassment.
I feel like the tiktok-ification of goth and instagram models who use the style to get clicks but don't actually respect the scene has a huge hand in it.
Instagram is full of them. Goth women in sexy clothing. Nothing wrong but often they have an OF account. I bet it feed a bit the idea goth girls are sexual easy.
the tag is useful for fashion inspo or maybe discovering music i havent heard before but a lot of it is tiktok thirst trappy stuff. or people trying to gatekeep the subculture(but kinda focusing only on the visual aspect)
Andrew Eldridge from sisters of mercy refused to be associated with the goth scene as he thought it was ridiculously obsessive about the look being over indexed based on what he wore one night
I feel like that’s most of the sexualisation, it’s not actually finding ‘goth’ attractive, it’s seeing everything as vaguely alt/black clothing worn but those influencers as goth, and then finding that specifically attractive. They don’t know what goth actually is, and it’s way more alt than goth tbh
Even worse, they miss the whole underlying philosophy and ties to belief systems. It really is very different under the hood for goths in a way that few outside understand. I’ve got Christian friends who are baffled when I point to a random goth stranger and say “he/she’s one of my people”
Black/leather clothing is also familiar to fetish stuff for some people so it might be the reason why the goth culture is the one to be hit by gooners. Gross
I like fetish things like latex etc but often when I see such accounts I wonder about, do you wear it because you like it and share it or I wear it because I know it is populair and I want become successful on Insta or TikTok. I have nothing against fetishism or things like that but it must be genuine for me.
Nothing angers me more than this sentence: ''big titty goth gf''.
Also, it's not only guys doing it. Sure they do it much more but I've seen women do it too, and it's usually normies who do. Just check the Letterboxd reviews about Elvira Mistress of the Dark, it's so gross and cringe
I've seen some girls do it to profit off of the sexualization tbh. Like to get more attention, using it as a tag to lure in those kind of men specifically. It just furthers the sexualization
Random: I'm a dommy mommy goth.
Me: No, Vicky, you bought clothes on amazon and have never listened to a genre outside of pop in your life. Go pick up your kid from daycare.
I get why it could be offensive, but I have dated/been friends with several goth-presenting potentially someone's gf women who also happen to have big tiddies, who laugh at and use the phrase.. I'm sorry it offends you and I am not trying to devalue your opinion, but it also was coined as a joke/meme
The way I've always viewed it is in the context of some dweeb that if he was ever alone with a big tiddie goth girl he would ejaculate the second she said "hi" to him.
Like he wouldn't have a single solitary clue on how to be with her in any way, shape or form.
Very true. I am a person who only survives the harder parts of life by making stupid jokes about them.. Sometimes it gets me in trouble but there are also much worse coping strategies 🤷♂️
I've had boyfriends refer to me like that and it's like cooooool I'm a human and you also hate when I do my makeup more trad goth so make up your mind or just admit you just like the fact my casual dress is more 'slutty' than the other nerdy girls a group I'm also a part of
I think it has to do with the overlap of kink and goth styles. And a lot of people do mix it so much that other people (mostly people outside the scene) don't see or care about the difference. Like fishnets, harnesses, spikes and leather are things heavily used in kink/BDSM gear and outfits. And also used in goth style.
Doesn't make it fair or right, but there is an overlap that you just can't deny. And while people within the community do not assume that just because you dress alt you must be kinky, people outside generalize. They don't see it as a venn diagram they see it as more of a circle.
And a lot of alternative people are more open to sexual freedom. And while we see it as empowering or just letting people be themselves, people outside don't think that hard or comprehend that and just see it as all one big circle. Thus the alt community being welcoming to personal freedom = alt people being connected to sexual things = fetishize alt people (in the non alt people's eyes)
exactly. i don't want to downplay the fetishization of goth women, but any decently attractive woman(especially on the internet it seems) will be thirsted/gooned over. this isnt exclusive to any subculture unfortunately
r/Teenagers is notoriously horrible for this, being a teen, I used to be on this sub and it is just pure pedophile bait. Decently attractive girls post pictures and get thousands of likes and the guys on there complain about being lonely. Such a depressing sub.
I was just in the SRD sub and they were talking about how /drama has been banned and that one time /drama baited a bunch of /teenagers users by banning all of them because /teenagers is full of under 18's.
Which ended up causing a flood of over mean over 30 complaining about how they shouldn't be banned because they're not under 18, they're over 30.
Pretty gross.
It is pretty common, i don't really mind if people like the clothing but i gotta admit it's disappointing when You are talking with the local goths and they don't Even know the cure
This isn't gatekeeping because the gate is wide open for anyone who wants to enter through and it's the only actual requirement for being a "goth"; many of us (I hesitate to label myself one) look and dress like normal people who couldn't be picked out of a crowd until we're going out for a show. It's easier now than it has been in any time in history to join the scene and listen to some Sisters or Alien Sex Fiend but these people want that label and the associations that come with it more than they want to be part of the actual subculture.
but if they were like determined to only listen to the lesser known bands, and avoid the more popular ones for some reason that'd be a flex and id respect that lol
I met someone at a club that had trad goth makeup and siouxsie hair that listened to nothing but emo pop from the 00s and thought it was goth, I rarely call anyone a poser but.. ugh.
Idk, but people are creepy as hell to alt girls in particular. I remember a girl of like sixteen or seventeen kept getting called mommy and other stuff on TikTok by total strangers. It’s really worrying that people take this sort of stuff as a joke like it can’t lead to people getting hurt.
I went on a date once where the guy wasn’t goth (but he knew that I was goth). We were hanging out on the couch midday, drinking wine, when he suddenly started choking me out of nowhere and performed a sexual act on me (I never once said that I was into BDSM/choking). He told me that because I was goth, that he assumed I was into kink…but isn’t kink all about consent and discussion prior to doing said kink? 🤔 in any case, sick of non-goth guys assuming that goth girls are all the same and are into kink. I just listen to goth music and wear cool clothes; that’s it!
WTF.literally what the fuck. i'm not into BDSM but even i know that consent is the foundation of kink. this motherfucker is just an abuser trying to use you for whateber sick thing he has going on. i'm srrry you went through that
It was pretty frightening to say the least. Sadly, this happened in another country that I was only in for three days. The guy probably knew this, too :/
Kink, especially BDSM is 100% about consent.
part of it is giving up control and being able to trust that your partner won't do real harm to you.
You consent to giving them control of you, you consent into being their "plaything".
BDSM without consent is just sexual violence.
I'm sorry that happened to you, that dude was an asshole.
i've been goth for 7 years(but didnt really get into the internet goth scene until a few years ago) so i didnt really ge tthe Bdsm/Goth thing until a few years back. i had heard people make that assumption/crrelation before but it didnt really click why.
I'm gonna be honest a lot of these answers are really poor explanations for why.
The reason 'goth women' developed into a fetish for non-goth people is because the stereotypical image of the goth woman hits a lot of chords people associate with dominant, dark, sexually promiscuous women who enjoy rough sex. The typical 'goth gf' is usually portrayed as bone-white, stark black hair and black make-up, which has always been 'a type' for many men, it has simply been re-framed and re-contextualized into a subculture that many associate with dark concepts and already very sexualized ideas such as vampires, who were always popular items of sexual fascination and fantasy. Pain and BDSM are also associated.
We also need to keep in mind that most of the time the 'goth gf's are very basic in 'construction' and in reality look almost nothing like goth women. At most you'll see someone draw them with Demonias, which only further shows how extremely basic the design is, because the pre-occupation is to make them conventionally sexy, so that means showing off as much skin as possible, putting them in mini-skirts and so on. This is in truth extremely conventional.
There is also a very apparent fetish for items of clothing such as latex, boots and fishnets that are obvious and common with this fetish. Goth women are further portrayed as sexually voracious and vicious, in some sense 'loose' and 'easy' to get with. Alternative women are fetishized and sexualized because their status as alternative to people communicate a sort of edge or sexual liberation and sexual promiscuity. There is also the old cultural idea that applying a lot of make-up is meant to entice men into sex, or to communicate sexual availability. Remember that 'painted lady' was a term for a sex worker.
It doesn't even have to be goth. Punk girls, women with tattoos and women with neon hair are also sexualized in the same way.
I also have to point out a constant undercurrent of disdain for sex workers whenever this topic comes out. Some of those sex workers are goths and they dress goth for their work because it's what makes *them* feel sexy. But also, goths like porn too, goths make porn too. Goths can be sexual and enjoy sex, and on average we're a pretty kinky bunch and it would be silly to argue that we *aren't* attracted to other goths or that the goth style isn't attractive to us. None of that should be important unless it's actively harming someone, it becomes a problem when people use it as license to harass people.
Also trying to 'both sides' this issue by claiming goth women 'fetishize goth men to the same extent' is frankly, ridiculous.
The goth community and the fetish community are intrinsically linked as well. It's been this way for decades. It took me forever to find goth events that *were not* also fetish events (not yucking anyone's yum, it's just not my scene). Even at regular goth events there are people that show up in fetish wear and it's normal--nobody there cares or makes a big deal out of it.
I could go on about the overlap between fetish wear and goth clothing/accessories (hello o-ring chokers!) but if anyone wanted more info, this is like surface level stuff on the iceberg and you can go down that rabbit hole on your own.
my favorite part is when people who picked on alt kids in high school realized its cycled back to being cool so now they pretend like they were goth the whole time.
Can I just say this as I've noticed this in this thread and in other threads I've seen about this topic.
I've noticed when discussing this topic sometimes people swing too far into the other direction. Like acting as if no genuine goth is into kink, acting as if there's never been any overlap between the goth and kink community and then acting also as if no genuine goth would be involved in a form of sex work and also putting the blame on women for dressing/acting in a certain way rather than putting the focus on people being creepy towards goths/alternative people.
In short, everything gets fetishised and some people don't act appropriately that's why this happens. There's also nothing wrong with someone whose outside of goth finding goths attractive provided they're respectful about it.
Because no matter what a woman looks like, I can guarantee you that there are men out there who will sexualize their appearance. The relative anonymity of the internet can embolden people to talk about things they wouldn't express out loud to a random woman in public, while also leaving a written record of what they said for others to come across.
Goth women are sexualized. So are punk women, preppy women, emo women, "bimbos", skinny women, thick women, black women, white women, young women, middle aged women, old women, little people, redheads, blondes, and so on.
There are people out there who sexualize addiction, for fucks sake.
Any physical.charscteristic a woman has, someone out there is sure to sexualize it, someone will make content to appeal to the people sexualizing it, and some of those people will talk about it in online spaces.
I want to make it clear that this isn't meant to be construed as any kind of defense. It's just an observation.
Well, a lot of the comments bring up lots of good points and I agree - it is a problem, and it's annoying, infuriating even, at times. But I think I should probably mention that the goth scene (at least to my knowledge, if anyone wishes to correct me please do so) has also been associated with BDSM culture and gear and it has been made part of the fashion in some cases. I personally do not like it and avoid it, but to each their own. This may or may not have played a part in the sexualisation of goth in general, not just women.
There’s always been some crossover between the two subcultures as far as clothing and fashion. I’ve been a goth since the mid-eighties (I’m in my fifties) and back then the only places where you could buy Manic Panic, winklepickers, and spiky collars and bracelets (amongst other items) were fetish shops. If you wanted leather gear like a corset as part of your goth outfit (or punk, alt, etc.) you’d have to buy it from a fetish shop. Spiked leather bracelets weren’t available in mainstream stores and you’d have to go to a specialty shop to find them. There was one shop in my area that sold leather gear, shoes, boots, clothing, what have you, of the type that would appeal to both communities: goth, alt, punk, etc., and fetish, BDSM, strippers, etc. Both would frequent the shop and co-existed happily alongside one another. This shop had two rooms, the front one selling the shoes and boots (winklepickers, Docs imported from the UK, stripper heels- the first time I ever saw a pair of stripper heels with the tall platforms was at this shop- it took many more years for those to go mainstream, lol), the Manic Panic, the punk and goth jewelry, and some of the leather gear and clothing. The back room was “18 and over only” with the BDSM gear and racier clothing (the doorway had a curtain across it to protect our innocent eyes lol).
It was only in the nineties when goth, etc., became more popular that the two communities were “separated” for more mainstream sales and commodification (like I stated earlier, bigger clothing retailers are happy to co-opt subcultures if there’s money to be made). But there’s always been an appeal for the type of clothing and accessories that are common between the two groups. This is why people confuse the two groups and assume that goths must be a part of the fetish/BDSM community (and vice versa) because they share many aspects of their look or aesthetic with each other.
You're not wrong.
There's a young lady in this thread that was choked by a date out of nowhere because he felt she was goth and "goth are into that sort of thing".
Unfortunately the term has never been more meaningless and disconnected from the actual music and subculture than it is in 2024. Any slightly alt girl wearing dark clothes is labelled as goth and over-sexualized by broccoli cut dudes who think Deftones are goth.
love how 'smart' is still somehow considered a scary trait when found in women. Like, god forbid I have the intellect to think for myself! How daaaaaaangeroooooouuuus! /sar
No, it’s more like they’re into the socially acceptable ones(at least from what I’ve seen), there are those who claim they want a big titty goth gf but then see ones that doesn’t fit into what is considered conveniently attractive and “talk about weird shit” (like weirder than the “sacrifices” and summoning satan jokes) and they get real judgement real quick.
Watched it happen in real time sadly :/
Women in general are sexualized all the time. Goths aren't special because they are goth. They are sexualized because they are women.
Men are pigs... well, most are.
As a goth guy, I was surprised when my gf first told me about goth girls being fetishized. Why would a guy want a girl with such specific music taste? But they don’t get that. And the idea that we are all into bdsm… so much ignorance.
I would not date a goth girl unless I was into the music. We go to so many goth events it would be so boring if you are a normie.
goth girl here, it’s really common and frustrating, still dont know why. it’s even worse on dating apps. so many messages about wanting an “emo/goth dommy mommy”, which ignores the fact that i’m an entire person outside of being goth (not to mention the blatant misunderstanding of what goth vs emo is, but that’s a conversation for another day). it’s hard to tell when someone truly wants to get to know you for you or if they just fetishize you for being goth. when i’m at home, i’m not full goth, i’m in a ratty band shirt and pajama pants, and that’s when i’ve realized a lot of these guys really only want you when you fulfill their fantasy of a surface level hot goth girlfriend with disregard for any of our actual interests, music, or personhood.
Honestly? Cuz all women are sexualized. Doesn’t matter the age, the style, the body, the profession, etc. We’re all sexualized. So feminine archetypes become sexualized too.
I'm gonna be entirely honest, as a goth myself I don't mind the term and I personally would be flattered if someone called me that way. BUT that is because *I* specifically am that way and I associate it with pleasant communities I was in when it was a thing before it really caught on with the masses.
That being said, the fact that I or other people personally like it does not absolutely give anyone the right to harrass anyone else by calling them that out of the blue. It's a sexually charged remark. And it is indeed ridiculous how, once it spread, some of the most vanilla and/or unbearable guys I have ever seen were starting to say that as if they could even actually handle a goth gf (You can look totally plain and still be a very interesting person, but what I am talking about it guys who act in a way that makes it very clear that they would never put up with any of the niche interests or have the basic amount of empathy that goths generally share, and just jumped on whatever trend makes their f**kdoll look interesting again)
That being said again, because it is kind of a subculture, I think it's okay to meme about it in that sort of chaotic sexually frustrated way. I've never seen any of those people actually be disrespectful to anyone like that, if not they are usually extremely self aware and pretty humble (referring to people like the ones in r/sillyboyclub in case it wasn't clear). It can be somewhat comforting beinf surrounded by people who find attractive something that the public has shunned for a very long time, or that is just niche. Unironically begging and demanding though is cringeworthy at best and dangerous at worst.
In addition to everything you've said, it's a bit of a meme as well. After AI exploded, one of the first uses of AI audio I heard was an imitation of Biden instructing the listen on "how to lay a big tiddy goth chick/get a big tiddy goth gf".
Among the advice given was to tell her how much you like new Behemoth (blackened death metal) album, to bully her for her taste in music and to turn her on by playing videos of actual necrophilia to turn her on. Something about her stabbing you during sex and if you sell medical treatment, she'll be turned off. Inaccuracies aside, there were funny moments. It was definitely satirizing that particular obsession but with some very misplaced stereotypes.
Easy : we live in a patriarchal society, one that oversexualize women constantly.
Goth women are part of subculture that's perceived as freakish but sexy by outsiders. On one part, they're the weird ones, the alt women existing outside of the "mainstream" beauty standard, feeding a certain sense of ... "exotism". On the other part, as the subculture actively reappropriated erotism and sexuality, through both music, fashion and aesthtic, (notably with the use of BDSM accessories, fishnets etc...), it's "easier" to fetichize them.
They don't see goth women for who they are but for what they want them to be, with their own twisted understanding of the subculture, especially holding the bold, "agressively sexual" fashion as an invitation.
Yeah, it's gross.
Goth culture kinda sexualizes itself. How many people wear fetish wear to goth nights? I can also remember there being at least a couple fetish nights a year. I've been to shows with strippers, and even one where they literally had people fucking in front of a spotlight so they could project a silhouette onto a raised sheet.
Also, "normies" don't care about the subtleties of specific subgenres. They hear "goth" and they think of a Suicide Girls. They want a spooky girl with a tattoos and piercings that looks like she has a second job as a dominatrix.
i think because normal girls dont look like that, also the sexualization comes from physical characteristics, in general a fat goth girl that dont have a pretty face would not be attractive also gear sometimes look like bdsm.
Everyone's responses here are great. My hare-brained thought would be that goth culture, in terms of bodily aesthetics, is highly creative, outwardly presentative, and an exteme, humanly manifestation of feminine empowerment and mysterioso. The Night attracts.
Also, the internet is a massive melting pot of millions of subcultures interacting, engaging, and influencing one another faster than any one group, let alone one person, could possibly comprehend. The lines are very blurred now. The great thing is, is that you can choose how and who to engage with while promoting and championing certain ideals that resonate with you and eschewing those that don't.
You have no idea how many messages I was getting a day after I posed my very first trad goth makeup look. It was so insane getting messages like, “Do you send?” “Be my goth mommy.” “I want you so bad.”
Like. DUDE WHO EVEN ARE YOU?! I literally turned off my messages because of it.
The simple answer that I'll give as I'm on a bus:
1) some goth fashion resembles/overlaps with fetish looks
2) goth girls are beautiful, and beautiful girls are sexualised.
Goth girls use it in their onlyfans aswell, im sure that doesnt help. Surely youve seen it around.
I just like them personally but i dont sexualize their style and treat them like every other person. Its the culture and music that really grabs me
ain't just the girls either. i get sexualized too but since goth girls are majority, that's all you see. it's some goth girls are sexual and feed into it, then the posers who use it for their onlyfans account. so the loud minority are representing the majority and it ruins it for everyone else
here’s the real answer. guy think goth girls are hot! the kind of things they sometimes wear, such as fishnets and heavy makeup are seen as sexual items in general. there’s also this stereotype that goth girls have big tits and men like that. the thing is, it’s not about them being goth at all. most of these people wouldn’t actually like being with a goth girl if given the opportunity. it’s the idea of them, it’s what they think these people are. they think that they’re hot, sexual, and more kinky than “normal” girls. yk how spiked collars and things are an accessory. although that doesn’t indict being into bdsm or whatever, even tho it can, it gets reduced down to something very simple. in essence, it breaks down to guys thinking that goth girls (or who they think is goth, like you mentioning e-girls) dress in a promiscuous way and that makes them “easy.”
and i’ll be 100% honest, i’m a trans guy and people who dress in alternative fashion or are goth are hot! it’s not wrong to find that attractive obviously (and i don’t think you’re saying that btw) but the problem comes when they’re reduced to a fetish. the same thing happens with lolita, which ironically in japan is something men DONT like. it’s really sad and i don’t think it’s something that’s going to go away any time soon. but i think men need to have some honest conversations with each other about why they think like this. unfortunately that’s not something that happens frequently, and it’s a whole other can of worms to get into why men feel like they can’t just be honest and vulnerable with each other. i feel for all of the people being sexualized. i know what it’s like, and it fucking sucks.
I mean ... Make them (men or women) talk extensively about the music they like. You should be able to spot a faker based on that. For the "normie" side of it, see their response when invited to a genuine goth club, and their attitude there.
The sexualization will never go away... Especially when there are so many people willing to exploit the fashion of the genre to their benefit.
Yeah it’s a double edge sword. On one side I like the idea of being respected for my aesthetic and the way I carry myself but also hate the idea of someone overly sexualizing to the point it’s a fetish. I didn’t understand it at first what’s meant by fetish but when you said them developing strategies or posing to get with one it’s disappointing. Cause I’m sure these same men will try to make their partner dress “normal”. I’ve experienced it vice versa and refuse too. My goth is not a phase but who I am
I've noticed the "goth dommy mommy" being promoted by many female streamers on twitch. Not sure where it started, but it's definitely being perpetuated as an entertainment stereotype.
It's many men just in general. Lifetimes of toxic masculinity and objectification of women in peers and media are still being shoved down men's throats. Even more so in the 30 second Burts of Vines and tiktok and YouTube shorts.
"You don't need to accept no NO from a woman." Is the kind of stuff that keeps this mentality alive.
There is also the "wildly sexually attracted to the idea of you, but also paradoxically disapproves of that attraction, you, goth, alternative anything" guy. Ugh.
I am attracted to the goth look due to conditioning as a child from certain cartoon characters that we all know(Hex Girls). But, I would date a goth girl even without the goth look because in my personal experience, goth women seem to always have a great personality. Usually super nice to everyone, willing to try different things, nice to animals, can be terrifying if necessary, just great people all around.
Goth, like Punk, has ALWAYS had associations with the BDSM community. This was never a direct allegiance, or statement, but a symbolic catch-all for "the things repressed, in society".
OR, IN OTHER WORDS: JUST GO WATCH "ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW", OR MAYBE "CABARET". OR EVEN THE ORIGINAL "THE ADDAMS FAMILY"! I'M SICK OF THIS CONVO, EVERY FEW YEARS...
(I have both soundtracks, on vinyl...when an elderly gay man dies, it's like an Elder-Goth dying: you must treat their belongings with the utmost respect and awe, as you arrange and display them, at the Antique Mall booth...)
Men are mostly visual. They sexualize everything. If they see something shiny that they like little or nothing, they don't care about personality, hobbies or culture.
If they like you physically, they will be interested in you as a person, the visual will always have more weight.
They like the idea of sexy woman, a mommy who can fight them but at the same time be their submissive girlfriend and thus reinforce their masculinity.
And if that's not the case, it's because they are submissive and they hope that seeing you how you look means that you are going to get on top of them and fulfill all their fetishes.
Because yes, they love the image of a woman that is different from the traditional one, but the first time they actually see that you are not traditional they leave or loss interest.
you’re just now realizing this? it’s been this way for so long, it’s so disgusting and annoying but now people are alternative because of that fact, and make money off it. by doing so, it continues to enforce the stereotype that has been made up.
I don't know for certain but it seems like a lot of these'' goth women'' are selling content on onlyfans or some other website and the men that love them are their customers
With respect, it's not a male thing it works both ways just men tend to be more comfortable being upfront and open about their preferences.
I like the look and attire of the goth girls I find them particularly attractive but I don't post comments to them usually just keep to myself as I find that rude to compliment a strange goth chick on her outfit and look when she knows she looks good. Welp that's enough good day
Exactly!!! I love doing trad goth makeup but I could never leave the house in it because I would get straight up bullied. But when I try and show it online I just get DMs from creeps or people saying wild things. It bothers me it bothers all girls☹️
I ve been goth since I was 16, so about 12 years now, as a teenage girl having social media I was receiving messages from older men that they wanted to serve me or that they wanted me to humiliate them and as I grew older I learnt to handle them with grace but I m so fed up, I can t take anymore, I m so tired if being fetishized and many times I wonder if men approach me for my style or because they think that i m freaky in bed. They were always reducing women to the point that it was convinient and appealing to them and now alternative women are no exception to this
This is a weird post. The sexualisation is bad. But you can't not even be a part of the goth community and start telling people they are and aren't real goths. Some people are just less dress up but are still into the music and culture.
It's quite clear the men saying this have watched too much porn etc. However, gothic fashion is heavily influenced by victorian fashion corsets etc. and also bdsm associated clothing, I can see why people think of sex when looking at someone wearing fetish wear as their everyday style. Social media has made people way too comfortable in sharing what is in their head, and pants.
Back in the 90's all the "The Cure" female fans I knew were the most preppy looking chicks you'd ever see.
To the point where when they talked about being fans of the group people would be like "No shit? Are you for real?"
As for the fashion, your right on the mark with the victorian aspect.
The lacey "lingerie" type stuff really lends to the sense of the fashion being sexual.
To be honest, there's probably a part of you that doesn't actually 'want' to know the real answer to that inquiry.. However, I will try to answer your question to the best of my abilities.
Part of it is Ye Old Expression -- 'RULE 34': "If it exists, there is porn of it."
People have been fetishizing each other since the beginning of time -- From Nuns, to Ranch Hands, to Fem-boys, Ladyboys, and anything & EVERYTHING else under the sun (...and then some.) "Where there's a hole, there's a goal" as the expression goes.
The interesting part about all this is, is how far we've come in society to where it's not so taboo anymore - it' slowly bled into our mainstream programming: From Queer as Folk to Game of Thrones to name a few.
I'm not saying it's 'right', I'm just acknowledging that it's a 'thing'.
This topic is so tired tbh.
Anyone, in any group or category that exists, is a fetish to someone. Anyone. Literally.
Not to mentions, many people have a sexual attraction and the internet is one of the few places you can “safely” express that although it’s slowly changing. Sex sells yet you can’t talk about sex, sex sells yet the expression of sexuality in anyway other than a chaste, holy and god honoring way is to be shunned.
And without knowing the influencer, the only thing I can say is being offended in someone else’s behalf esp if they aren’t offended is stupid. Some people, god forbid, enjoy that kind of attention when they intentionally bait or willingly open themselves up to it.
Also every pick up artist is a hack.
As long as you’re normal about it I don’t think liking that someone has an alt look is a red flag. If somebody has cool tattoos or dresses a certain way or something that’s a choice they’re making to express their personality and it’s perfectly fine to compliment them on. It’s better than focusing on how big her boobs are or something.
I think women from a lot of minority groups are sexualised, look at the ways women from different races and trans women are fetishised as other examples that come to mind.
Goths, or at least mainstream society's idea of goths, are quite easy to recognise so i guess that probably makes us relatively easy targets as well.
Then there is the fact that certain elements of gothic fashion overlap with elements of fetish wear (leather, latex, PVC, collars, etc.), which I think gives some people the wrong idea.
In my experience it has been a problem since at least the 2000s (and probably earlier, but that was before my time), but like a lot of things it's more obvious now with the internet and the fact that people are generally more comfortable being openly obnoxious from behind their keyboards.
lol(sarcastic laugh duh) the people who are the most fetishized or objectified(not just sexual objectification either) are the ones who are the least respected. lik eyou can use us and marvel at us but not respect us as peopel. its fucking hilarious
i'm attracted to goth femmes in every way that i know,including sexually. some of the nicest and most creative amd non judgemental people i know people are goths. obviously there are normies and other types of people who are too,but i am enamoured by the dark and the different, and goths imo are objectively the most visually and sexually appealing to me. i see nothing wrong with wanting to be intimate with someone who shares the same interests and i can learn new things from and vice versa
One is the aesthetics. A lot of goths wear BDSM coded gear. So that sends the message that goths are freaks in the bedroom. Same with having tattoos and piercings, normies are like "ohhh I bet you're bad"
A dude I know who is in the kink scene was convinced that every chick in 2015 wearing a collar was a sub. I was like "no thats just a choker and its just fashion"
One of the major driving forces that makes humans human is the desire for sex, there are going to be a lot of sexually complex turn ons for people.
This write up falls under the " I spend my life online" take on the world.
I have dated a lot of goth girls and even married one. My top secret formula: I’m a goth guy who likes goth music and likes to dress goth and has similar interests to goth girls.
makes it hard for dating too, since its sometimes hard to know if a guy likes you for you or because youre goth.
the way i have to constantly ask myself if a guy actually likes me or is just fetishizing me is absolutely exhausting
Tbf, this isn't a uniquely goth problem. People who find someone else physically attractive always instil some doubt that there is over appreciation of their looks whether that's based on a dress style, body type or otherwise. Everyone may potentially be fetishized by someone else. If you changed wardrobe fully tomorrow there's a good chance you'd still have the same problem, be you woman, man, nb, gay, straight, bi, pan, asexual... everyone always seems to think this is a unique problem to them because the don't talk to other people. If they did, they would realize everyone struggles with this.
it sucks :(
i like goth women because i myself am goth and that's just what i grew up liking i then got into the music and the culture as a whole not because the internet told me to. I don't fetishize women for being goth but if i don't like your personality i wont try to get into a romantic relationship just because you happen to look a certain way. that's just my 2 cents
same for me
Thank you brother you pretty much said it for me and said it really well. I’m also no even single so I’m not looking for anyone I’ve been alt my entire life and being a black goth man doesn’t make things much much easier to be accepted however I’ve never taken that as a way to reduce my interest of attraction to style of dress and music choice. I’ve met plenty women who “dress the part” claim they “love the cure” but totally just aren’t for me because of personality or etc etc again I’m not single so I don’t look anyway with the intention to grow anything other than a curious look or two but yeah it’s crazy the way things can be sometimes. Respect the women man ! And protect them too !
I think a good test is to see how he treats you without goth makeup. Don't wear anything goth on the first date. Try to dress as non-goth as possible. If all that excitement and enthusiasm goes away then you got your answer! I'm not a goth girl but I do appreciate the artistry of it all. The thing is, I see nothing but complaints about the sexualization from goth girls. They clearly don't like it yet the Internet still sexualizes them
Goth has become just another fetish 😢
here: 1. E-girls/the era when tiktok actually became tiktok (2018-20). not necessarily always the girls themselves, bc i dont think its right to blame all of them for weirdos, but considering some of them are now associated w/ incel, anime 4-chan culture, & E-girl fashion takes notes from a lot of alternative fashion (in a more corporate manner), theyre now used as the image of a goth or alt girl for internet brainrot users.. even though its mostly music. 2. I guess that weird stereotype of ppl associating goth, or even just alternative-looking women with being promiscuous, aggressive & automatically connecting it to f3tish gear. Even if this is seen as "hot" now it's still pretty generalizing, & sometimes used in a misogynistic, demeaning manner but trying to be seen as positive 3. women will almost always be objectified/sexualized no matter what (There's also way more factors to this that intersect into other things beyond just goth media)
It pre-dates TikTok and e-girls. Back in the early 2000s half the goth (or at least "goth") girls on Livejournal were trying to launch modelling careers via Suicide Girls and become the next Dita von Teese.
oh i know. but in terms of modern internet i think e-girl culture has a role in some of it, esp the BTGGF meme & more specifically the heavy incel 4chan meme group association (that are often the ones objectifying these women)
Forgive me to say this and i hope I don't come off as rude But aren't lots of people (posers) use the fact that this is profitable and their success contribute to more of the fetishism and all that comes with it? Like as much as i hate defending those incels, IF there would be no enablers "Sellers" those scumbag buyers wouldn't be as big/widespread of an issue The posers who profiteer of the fetishism of our subculture are as much at fault as those incels & normies who abuse & objectify the goth image
I understand where you're coming from. My point was mostly that I'm not comfortable with generalizing all E-girls, & moreso that they're not the only ppl to blame bc as long as there's ppl buying it, it will continue. they know there's just a general market & demand for it Atleast from my knowledge the egirl thing mostly started off as a cringey trend. It didn't seem to be inherently sexual but got more & more suggestive esp with people like Belle Delphine, who I do feel like is actually one of the big contributors to this ngl But yeah I do agree that all of this does contribute to it
It pre-dates even goth itself. It goes all the way back to the rock and metal scenes in the 70's and 80's. Big hair, dark makeup, tight/torn/tattered clothes, leather, straps, exposed bras and all that. The promiscuous stereotype was born of the fact that groupies were very front and center in those scenes, some of them were almost as famous as the bands themselves. And it wasn't just groupies around world famous rock/metal groups, even small local rock/metal groups had their own groupies, girls that the bands would pass around because they (the girls) wanted to be included in the scene. Hell, even garbage garage bands had small cliques of groupies. When goth came around it was a sort of evolution of that look and culture. The music changed from the thrash/death metal music to stuff like The Cure. Also it was that goth/emo was seen as the expression of girls with little self-respect due to the "suicidal", nothing really matters attitude that was perceived as part of goth/emo culture. So many people, mostly men, that weren't actually part of the culture deluded themselves into thinking goth/emo girls were easy because they lacked any kind of self-respect/esteem.
I would argue it goes all the way back to medieval Europe and the stereotyping of witches as dangerous temptresses by Catholics. Most modern subcultures have their roots in ancient societies, like paganism. The counterculture movement of the 70s is just a flavor of paganism.
4-chan at least 20 years old
i know 4chan is old. was just saying e-girls got sucked into that whole culture & were eventually associated with a pre-established space of toxic ppl (4chan, incels & the like)
Girls are sexualized in general
yeah... this is definitely the truth.
we are sexualized and objectified
Yeah that's the actual answer. No matter what we do we're sexualized. Washing dishes, doing chores, working out, wearing jeans, wearing shorts, we're sexualized no matter what
👆
Oh, definitely. You don't see goth guys being talked about like that.
You really don't see any general group of guys being talked about like that (as a group, some individuals may be sexualized like that).
yeah not the average ones. the super hot goth models or ig guys are sexualized but thats true with males/masc in general
This isn't true. Goth men ( especially goth models ) are massively fetishized as well. In fact goth men are fetishized by goth women. Look at Instagram comments
Yes, men are sexualized. The fact of the matter is it dosent happen nearly as much or as overtly as the sexualization of women.
if it's goths sexualising other goths is it fetishization? i'm iffy on that classification. because as you've said i see this all the time,particularly among the younger crowd online
Of course it can still be fetishization. It's going to depend on the circumstance, but to the extent of the comments under some I've seen, it can't be called anything else.
Spend a week on Facebook dating as a goth guy before you draw that conclusion. I've been on there for a few months trying to find a serious relationship (have it in there on the bio) and all I'll get is girls who think because I'm a goth guy that I'm up for anything which already depletes a pool of finite people seeking a serious relationship as well (or I'm just not good looking enough to match with that finite number and only leaves people seeking non-serious things, which isn't a fair answer either). In short, it's terrible all around for a goth anything I feel.
I think attractive people are sexualized in general.
Yeah. People sexualize femboys, who are obviously boys. I think it's not the gender but femininity that is heavily sexualized.
Exactly...feminity and feminine characteristics are always the problem for a patriarchal society, if something is feminine, they immediately objectify it and relate it to only sexual pleasures
i have a few friends who are goth guys who are pretty good looking. i of course hype them up and compliment them and they get a lot of attention too, but yeah as a whole we're not sexualized as much
Girls are secualised And 'unique' girls get secualised even more.
This is the only answer, really.
couple of reasons: 1. a lot of ppl *think* goth is a fashion sub-culture and the fashion is popular with woman looking to launch a modeling/porn career 2. there's the association with the BDSM community and 9 times out of 10 they are just confusing the two communities 3. the goth gf meme doesn't have a fixed personality allowing ppl to project their own personality onto it (keeping the meme popular even among none-perverts/idiots which helps the longevity of it) 4. goth fashion just looks nice 5. the goth community is popular with women, has a darker edge to it but also doesn't have a negative reputation as a dating pool.
It really does look nice
I think American society in general has this fetish for those of us who occupy the fringes. Everything from criminality to the gothic. It's like people see who we are and find something taboo in our mere existence, and they're attracted to it.
*cough* like those highly bigoted states where lgbt themed corn (for lack of a better word) is the most searched/popular *cough*
yes, 100% this
"Corn" took me a second to figure out, and I was thinking of the different colored corn cobs you can get, and thinking how cool it would be to get a rainbow cob of corn.
Corn? Just say porn, we are on Reddit, not TikTok! 😂 haha
lmaoooooo
Because those on the fringes are perceived to have fewer inhibitions. The pretty girl or handsome man that drinks whiskey straight from the bottle and smashes motel rooms turns people on because they're seen as wild and rebellious and well, wild and rebellious is often perceived as promiscuous.
I wish we could say it’s only an American thing, but I’m British and have been sexualised/fetishised at goth nights over here
Unfortunately, that is unsurprising. I'm sorry you've had to deal with shit heads my dear
At goth clubs? I mean Gogo cube dancers are part of the package of the club scene in general. I personally find it annoying and would rather have authentic and meaningful conversions while being smashed and incoherent lol
Kinda feels like we men just sexualize and fetishize pretty much anything. Goths, asian women, latinas .... you name it and you will probably find a decently sized community fetishizing them. Especially compared to ethnic fetishization I think the people fetishizing goth women is rather small tbh. I had a half japanese girlfriend a few years back and the amount of stories she told (and some I was even present for) of men hitting on her making it implicitly clear that it was mainly because they had "a thing" for asians was eye opening.
I think as long as we attach positive virtues which empower women, it’s ok to celebrate goddesses as idols as long as they are not objectified. Women are far more beautiful than men but we also have to remember physical beauty is only skin deep. This all sounds great until evil dick awakes :o
As an ace goth, this bothers me a lot. I mean there definitely are some ladies who are into fetish goth (no judgments, y'all do you) and stuff like that but it's really aggravating to have people assume that all goths are into that. I don't mind btggf jokes but it becomes a problem when the jokes and stereotypes lead to sexual harassment. I feel like the tiktok-ification of goth and instagram models who use the style to get clicks but don't actually respect the scene has a huge hand in it.
A fellow ace goth!
Instagram is full of them. Goth women in sexy clothing. Nothing wrong but often they have an OF account. I bet it feed a bit the idea goth girls are sexual easy.
I looked up the goth tag on Instagram and after a few scrolls I had enough. Yikes.
the tag is useful for fashion inspo or maybe discovering music i havent heard before but a lot of it is tiktok thirst trappy stuff. or people trying to gatekeep the subculture(but kinda focusing only on the visual aspect)
Andrew Eldridge from sisters of mercy refused to be associated with the goth scene as he thought it was ridiculously obsessive about the look being over indexed based on what he wore one night
I feel like that’s most of the sexualisation, it’s not actually finding ‘goth’ attractive, it’s seeing everything as vaguely alt/black clothing worn but those influencers as goth, and then finding that specifically attractive. They don’t know what goth actually is, and it’s way more alt than goth tbh
And thus people ignore the music/art associated with this culture just to sexualize people....
Even worse, they miss the whole underlying philosophy and ties to belief systems. It really is very different under the hood for goths in a way that few outside understand. I’ve got Christian friends who are baffled when I point to a random goth stranger and say “he/she’s one of my people”
Black/leather clothing is also familiar to fetish stuff for some people so it might be the reason why the goth culture is the one to be hit by gooners. Gross
I like fetish things like latex etc but often when I see such accounts I wonder about, do you wear it because you like it and share it or I wear it because I know it is populair and I want become successful on Insta or TikTok. I have nothing against fetishism or things like that but it must be genuine for me.
Nothing angers me more than this sentence: ''big titty goth gf''. Also, it's not only guys doing it. Sure they do it much more but I've seen women do it too, and it's usually normies who do. Just check the Letterboxd reviews about Elvira Mistress of the Dark, it's so gross and cringe
I've seen some girls do it to profit off of the sexualization tbh. Like to get more attention, using it as a tag to lure in those kind of men specifically. It just furthers the sexualization
Omg yes, the cosplayers are just as problematic :|
I love the term cosplayer in this context; I'm so gonna use that thank you ( ╥ω╥ )
🖤
Random: I'm a dommy mommy goth. Me: No, Vicky, you bought clothes on amazon and have never listened to a genre outside of pop in your life. Go pick up your kid from daycare.
And they wouldn't know how to properly dominate anyone. Probably think it's just a bunch of yelling and hitting.
I get why it could be offensive, but I have dated/been friends with several goth-presenting potentially someone's gf women who also happen to have big tiddies, who laugh at and use the phrase.. I'm sorry it offends you and I am not trying to devalue your opinion, but it also was coined as a joke/meme
Yeah, the btgf meme started as gooning and evolved to something ironically claimed and parodied. Edit: I still don't like it.
I just want the term "goon" to to be another word for "minion" again... Damn you, Internet!
I'm one of the ones that jokes about it. It's funny when it comes from the right place. Everything is funny sometimes.
The way I've always viewed it is in the context of some dweeb that if he was ever alone with a big tiddie goth girl he would ejaculate the second she said "hi" to him. Like he wouldn't have a single solitary clue on how to be with her in any way, shape or form.
Very true. I am a person who only survives the harder parts of life by making stupid jokes about them.. Sometimes it gets me in trouble but there are also much worse coping strategies 🤷♂️
I've had boyfriends refer to me like that and it's like cooooool I'm a human and you also hate when I do my makeup more trad goth so make up your mind or just admit you just like the fact my casual dress is more 'slutty' than the other nerdy girls a group I'm also a part of
There's nothing wrong with thinking a specific fashion style is hot, as long as they don't harrass random women for it it's fine.
I think it has to do with the overlap of kink and goth styles. And a lot of people do mix it so much that other people (mostly people outside the scene) don't see or care about the difference. Like fishnets, harnesses, spikes and leather are things heavily used in kink/BDSM gear and outfits. And also used in goth style. Doesn't make it fair or right, but there is an overlap that you just can't deny. And while people within the community do not assume that just because you dress alt you must be kinky, people outside generalize. They don't see it as a venn diagram they see it as more of a circle. And a lot of alternative people are more open to sexual freedom. And while we see it as empowering or just letting people be themselves, people outside don't think that hard or comprehend that and just see it as all one big circle. Thus the alt community being welcoming to personal freedom = alt people being connected to sexual things = fetishize alt people (in the non alt people's eyes)
Welcome to womanhood
exactly. i don't want to downplay the fetishization of goth women, but any decently attractive woman(especially on the internet it seems) will be thirsted/gooned over. this isnt exclusive to any subculture unfortunately
someone's been on r/Teenagers / r/TeenagersButBetter /j (it's genuinely a massive issue there)
r/Teenagers is notoriously horrible for this, being a teen, I used to be on this sub and it is just pure pedophile bait. Decently attractive girls post pictures and get thousands of likes and the guys on there complain about being lonely. Such a depressing sub.
I was just in the SRD sub and they were talking about how /drama has been banned and that one time /drama baited a bunch of /teenagers users by banning all of them because /teenagers is full of under 18's. Which ended up causing a flood of over mean over 30 complaining about how they shouldn't be banned because they're not under 18, they're over 30. Pretty gross.
that sounds like the internet in general
but a sub specifically for teenagers breeds people who are looking for teenagers
lol'd at the skater boy thing lol. what is this the early 2000's?
Bc goth is now worn as a costume and bimbo goth is a thing
It is pretty common, i don't really mind if people like the clothing but i gotta admit it's disappointing when You are talking with the local goths and they don't Even know the cure
not knowing the cure or siouxsie or bahaus is like being a star wars "fan" and not knowing luke or darth vader lol
This! Like i'm not a gatekeeper or anything but at least know the básics
This isn't gatekeeping because the gate is wide open for anyone who wants to enter through and it's the only actual requirement for being a "goth"; many of us (I hesitate to label myself one) look and dress like normal people who couldn't be picked out of a crowd until we're going out for a show. It's easier now than it has been in any time in history to join the scene and listen to some Sisters or Alien Sex Fiend but these people want that label and the associations that come with it more than they want to be part of the actual subculture.
but if they were like determined to only listen to the lesser known bands, and avoid the more popular ones for some reason that'd be a flex and id respect that lol
I met someone at a club that had trad goth makeup and siouxsie hair that listened to nothing but emo pop from the 00s and thought it was goth, I rarely call anyone a poser but.. ugh.
My biggest encounter with a "poser" was a girl that has souxsie's eyes in a backpack pin, and has no idea where was that from 😭
Idk, but people are creepy as hell to alt girls in particular. I remember a girl of like sixteen or seventeen kept getting called mommy and other stuff on TikTok by total strangers. It’s really worrying that people take this sort of stuff as a joke like it can’t lead to people getting hurt.
I went on a date once where the guy wasn’t goth (but he knew that I was goth). We were hanging out on the couch midday, drinking wine, when he suddenly started choking me out of nowhere and performed a sexual act on me (I never once said that I was into BDSM/choking). He told me that because I was goth, that he assumed I was into kink…but isn’t kink all about consent and discussion prior to doing said kink? 🤔 in any case, sick of non-goth guys assuming that goth girls are all the same and are into kink. I just listen to goth music and wear cool clothes; that’s it!
WTF.literally what the fuck. i'm not into BDSM but even i know that consent is the foundation of kink. this motherfucker is just an abuser trying to use you for whateber sick thing he has going on. i'm srrry you went through that
It was pretty frightening to say the least. Sadly, this happened in another country that I was only in for three days. The guy probably knew this, too :/
i'm so sorry and angry that happened to you.
I'd like to do to that dude what he did to this poor girl. But for a good while longer, if I'm being honest.
Kink, especially BDSM is 100% about consent. part of it is giving up control and being able to trust that your partner won't do real harm to you. You consent to giving them control of you, you consent into being their "plaything". BDSM without consent is just sexual violence. I'm sorry that happened to you, that dude was an asshole.
report that guy that is assualt.
i've been goth for 7 years(but didnt really get into the internet goth scene until a few years ago) so i didnt really ge tthe Bdsm/Goth thing until a few years back. i had heard people make that assumption/crrelation before but it didnt really click why.
I’m sorry you went through that, man that’s so scary.
I'm gonna be honest a lot of these answers are really poor explanations for why. The reason 'goth women' developed into a fetish for non-goth people is because the stereotypical image of the goth woman hits a lot of chords people associate with dominant, dark, sexually promiscuous women who enjoy rough sex. The typical 'goth gf' is usually portrayed as bone-white, stark black hair and black make-up, which has always been 'a type' for many men, it has simply been re-framed and re-contextualized into a subculture that many associate with dark concepts and already very sexualized ideas such as vampires, who were always popular items of sexual fascination and fantasy. Pain and BDSM are also associated. We also need to keep in mind that most of the time the 'goth gf's are very basic in 'construction' and in reality look almost nothing like goth women. At most you'll see someone draw them with Demonias, which only further shows how extremely basic the design is, because the pre-occupation is to make them conventionally sexy, so that means showing off as much skin as possible, putting them in mini-skirts and so on. This is in truth extremely conventional. There is also a very apparent fetish for items of clothing such as latex, boots and fishnets that are obvious and common with this fetish. Goth women are further portrayed as sexually voracious and vicious, in some sense 'loose' and 'easy' to get with. Alternative women are fetishized and sexualized because their status as alternative to people communicate a sort of edge or sexual liberation and sexual promiscuity. There is also the old cultural idea that applying a lot of make-up is meant to entice men into sex, or to communicate sexual availability. Remember that 'painted lady' was a term for a sex worker. It doesn't even have to be goth. Punk girls, women with tattoos and women with neon hair are also sexualized in the same way. I also have to point out a constant undercurrent of disdain for sex workers whenever this topic comes out. Some of those sex workers are goths and they dress goth for their work because it's what makes *them* feel sexy. But also, goths like porn too, goths make porn too. Goths can be sexual and enjoy sex, and on average we're a pretty kinky bunch and it would be silly to argue that we *aren't* attracted to other goths or that the goth style isn't attractive to us. None of that should be important unless it's actively harming someone, it becomes a problem when people use it as license to harass people. Also trying to 'both sides' this issue by claiming goth women 'fetishize goth men to the same extent' is frankly, ridiculous.
The goth community and the fetish community are intrinsically linked as well. It's been this way for decades. It took me forever to find goth events that *were not* also fetish events (not yucking anyone's yum, it's just not my scene). Even at regular goth events there are people that show up in fetish wear and it's normal--nobody there cares or makes a big deal out of it. I could go on about the overlap between fetish wear and goth clothing/accessories (hello o-ring chokers!) but if anyone wanted more info, this is like surface level stuff on the iceberg and you can go down that rabbit hole on your own.
Because all women are sexualized, being goth (or alternative in some way) just adds a specifier to it
my favorite part is when people who picked on alt kids in high school realized its cycled back to being cool so now they pretend like they were goth the whole time.
i have no words for this. in order to prevent myself from an unhinged angry response to those fuckers i'll just say you're 100% correct.
Can I just say this as I've noticed this in this thread and in other threads I've seen about this topic. I've noticed when discussing this topic sometimes people swing too far into the other direction. Like acting as if no genuine goth is into kink, acting as if there's never been any overlap between the goth and kink community and then acting also as if no genuine goth would be involved in a form of sex work and also putting the blame on women for dressing/acting in a certain way rather than putting the focus on people being creepy towards goths/alternative people. In short, everything gets fetishised and some people don't act appropriately that's why this happens. There's also nothing wrong with someone whose outside of goth finding goths attractive provided they're respectful about it.
Because no matter what a woman looks like, I can guarantee you that there are men out there who will sexualize their appearance. The relative anonymity of the internet can embolden people to talk about things they wouldn't express out loud to a random woman in public, while also leaving a written record of what they said for others to come across. Goth women are sexualized. So are punk women, preppy women, emo women, "bimbos", skinny women, thick women, black women, white women, young women, middle aged women, old women, little people, redheads, blondes, and so on. There are people out there who sexualize addiction, for fucks sake. Any physical.charscteristic a woman has, someone out there is sure to sexualize it, someone will make content to appeal to the people sexualizing it, and some of those people will talk about it in online spaces. I want to make it clear that this isn't meant to be construed as any kind of defense. It's just an observation.
Well, a lot of the comments bring up lots of good points and I agree - it is a problem, and it's annoying, infuriating even, at times. But I think I should probably mention that the goth scene (at least to my knowledge, if anyone wishes to correct me please do so) has also been associated with BDSM culture and gear and it has been made part of the fashion in some cases. I personally do not like it and avoid it, but to each their own. This may or may not have played a part in the sexualisation of goth in general, not just women.
There’s always been some crossover between the two subcultures as far as clothing and fashion. I’ve been a goth since the mid-eighties (I’m in my fifties) and back then the only places where you could buy Manic Panic, winklepickers, and spiky collars and bracelets (amongst other items) were fetish shops. If you wanted leather gear like a corset as part of your goth outfit (or punk, alt, etc.) you’d have to buy it from a fetish shop. Spiked leather bracelets weren’t available in mainstream stores and you’d have to go to a specialty shop to find them. There was one shop in my area that sold leather gear, shoes, boots, clothing, what have you, of the type that would appeal to both communities: goth, alt, punk, etc., and fetish, BDSM, strippers, etc. Both would frequent the shop and co-existed happily alongside one another. This shop had two rooms, the front one selling the shoes and boots (winklepickers, Docs imported from the UK, stripper heels- the first time I ever saw a pair of stripper heels with the tall platforms was at this shop- it took many more years for those to go mainstream, lol), the Manic Panic, the punk and goth jewelry, and some of the leather gear and clothing. The back room was “18 and over only” with the BDSM gear and racier clothing (the doorway had a curtain across it to protect our innocent eyes lol). It was only in the nineties when goth, etc., became more popular that the two communities were “separated” for more mainstream sales and commodification (like I stated earlier, bigger clothing retailers are happy to co-opt subcultures if there’s money to be made). But there’s always been an appeal for the type of clothing and accessories that are common between the two groups. This is why people confuse the two groups and assume that goths must be a part of the fetish/BDSM community (and vice versa) because they share many aspects of their look or aesthetic with each other.
You're not wrong. There's a young lady in this thread that was choked by a date out of nowhere because he felt she was goth and "goth are into that sort of thing".
Unfortunately the term has never been more meaningless and disconnected from the actual music and subculture than it is in 2024. Any slightly alt girl wearing dark clothes is labelled as goth and over-sexualized by broccoli cut dudes who think Deftones are goth.
The over sexualization of our subculture makes me so damn angry But i do hope is a trend, that eventually dies
I think it’s how people have stopped being so uncomfortable with goth women—they’re hot, not weird/rebellious/smart/scary!
love how 'smart' is still somehow considered a scary trait when found in women. Like, god forbid I have the intellect to think for myself! How daaaaaaangeroooooouuuus! /sar
No, it’s more like they’re into the socially acceptable ones(at least from what I’ve seen), there are those who claim they want a big titty goth gf but then see ones that doesn’t fit into what is considered conveniently attractive and “talk about weird shit” (like weirder than the “sacrifices” and summoning satan jokes) and they get real judgement real quick. Watched it happen in real time sadly :/
I abhor the fetishization of goth.
Women in general are sexualized all the time. Goths aren't special because they are goth. They are sexualized because they are women. Men are pigs... well, most are.
Porn culture taking anything women do and making it into a sex thing. Goth women are “exotic” to these weirdos.
As a goth guy, I was surprised when my gf first told me about goth girls being fetishized. Why would a guy want a girl with such specific music taste? But they don’t get that. And the idea that we are all into bdsm… so much ignorance. I would not date a goth girl unless I was into the music. We go to so many goth events it would be so boring if you are a normie.
goth girl here, it’s really common and frustrating, still dont know why. it’s even worse on dating apps. so many messages about wanting an “emo/goth dommy mommy”, which ignores the fact that i’m an entire person outside of being goth (not to mention the blatant misunderstanding of what goth vs emo is, but that’s a conversation for another day). it’s hard to tell when someone truly wants to get to know you for you or if they just fetishize you for being goth. when i’m at home, i’m not full goth, i’m in a ratty band shirt and pajama pants, and that’s when i’ve realized a lot of these guys really only want you when you fulfill their fantasy of a surface level hot goth girlfriend with disregard for any of our actual interests, music, or personhood.
Honestly? Cuz all women are sexualized. Doesn’t matter the age, the style, the body, the profession, etc. We’re all sexualized. So feminine archetypes become sexualized too.
All women are sexualized, if they fall into any niche they're sexualized even more based on that.
they think were into bdsm because the clothing is similar
Rule 34 my friend.
If it exists, there is porn of it.
I'm gonna be entirely honest, as a goth myself I don't mind the term and I personally would be flattered if someone called me that way. BUT that is because *I* specifically am that way and I associate it with pleasant communities I was in when it was a thing before it really caught on with the masses. That being said, the fact that I or other people personally like it does not absolutely give anyone the right to harrass anyone else by calling them that out of the blue. It's a sexually charged remark. And it is indeed ridiculous how, once it spread, some of the most vanilla and/or unbearable guys I have ever seen were starting to say that as if they could even actually handle a goth gf (You can look totally plain and still be a very interesting person, but what I am talking about it guys who act in a way that makes it very clear that they would never put up with any of the niche interests or have the basic amount of empathy that goths generally share, and just jumped on whatever trend makes their f**kdoll look interesting again) That being said again, because it is kind of a subculture, I think it's okay to meme about it in that sort of chaotic sexually frustrated way. I've never seen any of those people actually be disrespectful to anyone like that, if not they are usually extremely self aware and pretty humble (referring to people like the ones in r/sillyboyclub in case it wasn't clear). It can be somewhat comforting beinf surrounded by people who find attractive something that the public has shunned for a very long time, or that is just niche. Unironically begging and demanding though is cringeworthy at best and dangerous at worst.
In addition to everything you've said, it's a bit of a meme as well. After AI exploded, one of the first uses of AI audio I heard was an imitation of Biden instructing the listen on "how to lay a big tiddy goth chick/get a big tiddy goth gf". Among the advice given was to tell her how much you like new Behemoth (blackened death metal) album, to bully her for her taste in music and to turn her on by playing videos of actual necrophilia to turn her on. Something about her stabbing you during sex and if you sell medical treatment, she'll be turned off. Inaccuracies aside, there were funny moments. It was definitely satirizing that particular obsession but with some very misplaced stereotypes.
Easy : we live in a patriarchal society, one that oversexualize women constantly. Goth women are part of subculture that's perceived as freakish but sexy by outsiders. On one part, they're the weird ones, the alt women existing outside of the "mainstream" beauty standard, feeding a certain sense of ... "exotism". On the other part, as the subculture actively reappropriated erotism and sexuality, through both music, fashion and aesthtic, (notably with the use of BDSM accessories, fishnets etc...), it's "easier" to fetichize them. They don't see goth women for who they are but for what they want them to be, with their own twisted understanding of the subculture, especially holding the bold, "agressively sexual" fashion as an invitation. Yeah, it's gross.
Can we please just sexualize death metal fans with white make up please. Yall get all the attention 🥺
We were doing that in the 80's when death metal was far more "mainstream".
Goth culture kinda sexualizes itself. How many people wear fetish wear to goth nights? I can also remember there being at least a couple fetish nights a year. I've been to shows with strippers, and even one where they literally had people fucking in front of a spotlight so they could project a silhouette onto a raised sheet. Also, "normies" don't care about the subtleties of specific subgenres. They hear "goth" and they think of a Suicide Girls. They want a spooky girl with a tattoos and piercings that looks like she has a second job as a dominatrix.
Sadly it's just a natural consequence of the internet being full of terminally online horny teenagers and incels.
Cuz they’re hot
Everything that is feared is either sexualized or emasculated.
I think goth sexualization is faintly connected to vamp and or demon fetishization....maybe that could possibly be it 🤷
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i think because normal girls dont look like that, also the sexualization comes from physical characteristics, in general a fat goth girl that dont have a pretty face would not be attractive also gear sometimes look like bdsm.
It's not gear that looks like bdsm tho It's literal bdsm Gear we wear The fetish side of the sub has been there since the 80's
yes, thats my point.
It's a novelty to most people.
Everyone's responses here are great. My hare-brained thought would be that goth culture, in terms of bodily aesthetics, is highly creative, outwardly presentative, and an exteme, humanly manifestation of feminine empowerment and mysterioso. The Night attracts. Also, the internet is a massive melting pot of millions of subcultures interacting, engaging, and influencing one another faster than any one group, let alone one person, could possibly comprehend. The lines are very blurred now. The great thing is, is that you can choose how and who to engage with while promoting and championing certain ideals that resonate with you and eschewing those that don't.
Because Rude Girls are so much less common these days. What happened to all the Ska chicks?
You have no idea how many messages I was getting a day after I posed my very first trad goth makeup look. It was so insane getting messages like, “Do you send?” “Be my goth mommy.” “I want you so bad.” Like. DUDE WHO EVEN ARE YOU?! I literally turned off my messages because of it.
Tfw when you invite a “goth” girl over, so you pull out the ol’ Bauhaus singles on vinyl and she says “who’s that?”
The simple answer that I'll give as I'm on a bus: 1) some goth fashion resembles/overlaps with fetish looks 2) goth girls are beautiful, and beautiful girls are sexualised.
Goth girls use it in their onlyfans aswell, im sure that doesnt help. Surely youve seen it around. I just like them personally but i dont sexualize their style and treat them like every other person. Its the culture and music that really grabs me
Think its just that hot goth girls are very appealing to sad nerdy guys, cuz goths look sad too, but in an attractive way
ain't just the girls either. i get sexualized too but since goth girls are majority, that's all you see. it's some goth girls are sexual and feed into it, then the posers who use it for their onlyfans account. so the loud minority are representing the majority and it ruins it for everyone else
here’s the real answer. guy think goth girls are hot! the kind of things they sometimes wear, such as fishnets and heavy makeup are seen as sexual items in general. there’s also this stereotype that goth girls have big tits and men like that. the thing is, it’s not about them being goth at all. most of these people wouldn’t actually like being with a goth girl if given the opportunity. it’s the idea of them, it’s what they think these people are. they think that they’re hot, sexual, and more kinky than “normal” girls. yk how spiked collars and things are an accessory. although that doesn’t indict being into bdsm or whatever, even tho it can, it gets reduced down to something very simple. in essence, it breaks down to guys thinking that goth girls (or who they think is goth, like you mentioning e-girls) dress in a promiscuous way and that makes them “easy.” and i’ll be 100% honest, i’m a trans guy and people who dress in alternative fashion or are goth are hot! it’s not wrong to find that attractive obviously (and i don’t think you’re saying that btw) but the problem comes when they’re reduced to a fetish. the same thing happens with lolita, which ironically in japan is something men DONT like. it’s really sad and i don’t think it’s something that’s going to go away any time soon. but i think men need to have some honest conversations with each other about why they think like this. unfortunately that’s not something that happens frequently, and it’s a whole other can of worms to get into why men feel like they can’t just be honest and vulnerable with each other. i feel for all of the people being sexualized. i know what it’s like, and it fucking sucks.
I mean ... Make them (men or women) talk extensively about the music they like. You should be able to spot a faker based on that. For the "normie" side of it, see their response when invited to a genuine goth club, and their attitude there. The sexualization will never go away... Especially when there are so many people willing to exploit the fashion of the genre to their benefit.
I just think goths are really cool tbh
Misogyny
Yeah it’s a double edge sword. On one side I like the idea of being respected for my aesthetic and the way I carry myself but also hate the idea of someone overly sexualizing to the point it’s a fetish. I didn’t understand it at first what’s meant by fetish but when you said them developing strategies or posing to get with one it’s disappointing. Cause I’m sure these same men will try to make their partner dress “normal”. I’ve experienced it vice versa and refuse too. My goth is not a phase but who I am
I've noticed the "goth dommy mommy" being promoted by many female streamers on twitch. Not sure where it started, but it's definitely being perpetuated as an entertainment stereotype.
It's many men just in general. Lifetimes of toxic masculinity and objectification of women in peers and media are still being shoved down men's throats. Even more so in the 30 second Burts of Vines and tiktok and YouTube shorts. "You don't need to accept no NO from a woman." Is the kind of stuff that keeps this mentality alive.
I swear it's because they think all goth women are kinky
Because everything is
There is also the "wildly sexually attracted to the idea of you, but also paradoxically disapproves of that attraction, you, goth, alternative anything" guy. Ugh.
I am attracted to the goth look due to conditioning as a child from certain cartoon characters that we all know(Hex Girls). But, I would date a goth girl even without the goth look because in my personal experience, goth women seem to always have a great personality. Usually super nice to everyone, willing to try different things, nice to animals, can be terrifying if necessary, just great people all around.
Goth, like Punk, has ALWAYS had associations with the BDSM community. This was never a direct allegiance, or statement, but a symbolic catch-all for "the things repressed, in society". OR, IN OTHER WORDS: JUST GO WATCH "ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW", OR MAYBE "CABARET". OR EVEN THE ORIGINAL "THE ADDAMS FAMILY"! I'M SICK OF THIS CONVO, EVERY FEW YEARS... (I have both soundtracks, on vinyl...when an elderly gay man dies, it's like an Elder-Goth dying: you must treat their belongings with the utmost respect and awe, as you arrange and display them, at the Antique Mall booth...)
Men are mostly visual. They sexualize everything. If they see something shiny that they like little or nothing, they don't care about personality, hobbies or culture. If they like you physically, they will be interested in you as a person, the visual will always have more weight. They like the idea of sexy woman, a mommy who can fight them but at the same time be their submissive girlfriend and thus reinforce their masculinity. And if that's not the case, it's because they are submissive and they hope that seeing you how you look means that you are going to get on top of them and fulfill all their fetishes. Because yes, they love the image of a woman that is different from the traditional one, but the first time they actually see that you are not traditional they leave or loss interest.
you’re just now realizing this? it’s been this way for so long, it’s so disgusting and annoying but now people are alternative because of that fact, and make money off it. by doing so, it continues to enforce the stereotype that has been made up.
I don't know for certain but it seems like a lot of these'' goth women'' are selling content on onlyfans or some other website and the men that love them are their customers
Protect the women dude I honestly hate this shit and I’m a goth male it’s cringe as fuck to see dude 🤦🏾♂️
With respect, it's not a male thing it works both ways just men tend to be more comfortable being upfront and open about their preferences. I like the look and attire of the goth girls I find them particularly attractive but I don't post comments to them usually just keep to myself as I find that rude to compliment a strange goth chick on her outfit and look when she knows she looks good. Welp that's enough good day
cause they're women. can you answer why goths are so prominent in the kink scene 🤔
Exactly!!! I love doing trad goth makeup but I could never leave the house in it because I would get straight up bullied. But when I try and show it online I just get DMs from creeps or people saying wild things. It bothers me it bothers all girls☹️
I ve been goth since I was 16, so about 12 years now, as a teenage girl having social media I was receiving messages from older men that they wanted to serve me or that they wanted me to humiliate them and as I grew older I learnt to handle them with grace but I m so fed up, I can t take anymore, I m so tired if being fetishized and many times I wonder if men approach me for my style or because they think that i m freaky in bed. They were always reducing women to the point that it was convinient and appealing to them and now alternative women are no exception to this
This is a weird post. The sexualisation is bad. But you can't not even be a part of the goth community and start telling people they are and aren't real goths. Some people are just less dress up but are still into the music and culture. It's quite clear the men saying this have watched too much porn etc. However, gothic fashion is heavily influenced by victorian fashion corsets etc. and also bdsm associated clothing, I can see why people think of sex when looking at someone wearing fetish wear as their everyday style. Social media has made people way too comfortable in sharing what is in their head, and pants.
Back in the 90's all the "The Cure" female fans I knew were the most preppy looking chicks you'd ever see. To the point where when they talked about being fans of the group people would be like "No shit? Are you for real?" As for the fashion, your right on the mark with the victorian aspect. The lacey "lingerie" type stuff really lends to the sense of the fashion being sexual.
To be honest, there's probably a part of you that doesn't actually 'want' to know the real answer to that inquiry.. However, I will try to answer your question to the best of my abilities. Part of it is Ye Old Expression -- 'RULE 34': "If it exists, there is porn of it." People have been fetishizing each other since the beginning of time -- From Nuns, to Ranch Hands, to Fem-boys, Ladyboys, and anything & EVERYTHING else under the sun (...and then some.) "Where there's a hole, there's a goal" as the expression goes. The interesting part about all this is, is how far we've come in society to where it's not so taboo anymore - it' slowly bled into our mainstream programming: From Queer as Folk to Game of Thrones to name a few. I'm not saying it's 'right', I'm just acknowledging that it's a 'thing'.
There is porn of tables and inanimate objects. If something exists it truly will be someone’s fetish.
Ripped fishnets, corsets, dark lipstick….gee I wonder why?
You mean skateboard pics don’t work? I bought it for nothing? /s
People who do this 🤮
I blame social media. Especially how people view underage alt girls
This topic is so tired tbh. Anyone, in any group or category that exists, is a fetish to someone. Anyone. Literally. Not to mentions, many people have a sexual attraction and the internet is one of the few places you can “safely” express that although it’s slowly changing. Sex sells yet you can’t talk about sex, sex sells yet the expression of sexuality in anyway other than a chaste, holy and god honoring way is to be shunned. And without knowing the influencer, the only thing I can say is being offended in someone else’s behalf esp if they aren’t offended is stupid. Some people, god forbid, enjoy that kind of attention when they intentionally bait or willingly open themselves up to it. Also every pick up artist is a hack.
What if my type is goth or alt girls in general?
just approach them like any normal girl, and don't mention that you like them becasue they're goth/alt.
It's really this simple.
As long as you’re normal about it I don’t think liking that someone has an alt look is a red flag. If somebody has cool tattoos or dresses a certain way or something that’s a choice they’re making to express their personality and it’s perfectly fine to compliment them on. It’s better than focusing on how big her boobs are or something.
I was gonna say... I don't see and issue and never had any adverse reactions to telling goth/alt girls that I like their style.
people associate goth fashion to BDSM, and also because goth girls are hot
Masterclass of being offended on behalf of other people.
I think women from a lot of minority groups are sexualised, look at the ways women from different races and trans women are fetishised as other examples that come to mind. Goths, or at least mainstream society's idea of goths, are quite easy to recognise so i guess that probably makes us relatively easy targets as well. Then there is the fact that certain elements of gothic fashion overlap with elements of fetish wear (leather, latex, PVC, collars, etc.), which I think gives some people the wrong idea. In my experience it has been a problem since at least the 2000s (and probably earlier, but that was before my time), but like a lot of things it's more obvious now with the internet and the fact that people are generally more comfortable being openly obnoxious from behind their keyboards.
lol(sarcastic laugh duh) the people who are the most fetishized or objectified(not just sexual objectification either) are the ones who are the least respected. lik eyou can use us and marvel at us but not respect us as peopel. its fucking hilarious
i'm attracted to goth femmes in every way that i know,including sexually. some of the nicest and most creative amd non judgemental people i know people are goths. obviously there are normies and other types of people who are too,but i am enamoured by the dark and the different, and goths imo are objectively the most visually and sexually appealing to me. i see nothing wrong with wanting to be intimate with someone who shares the same interests and i can learn new things from and vice versa
i don't think they're just talking about attraction. a lot of this borders on or is misogyny and harassment & not a compliment. & fetishistic.
One is the aesthetics. A lot of goths wear BDSM coded gear. So that sends the message that goths are freaks in the bedroom. Same with having tattoos and piercings, normies are like "ohhh I bet you're bad" A dude I know who is in the kink scene was convinced that every chick in 2015 wearing a collar was a sub. I was like "no thats just a choker and its just fashion"
One of the major driving forces that makes humans human is the desire for sex, there are going to be a lot of sexually complex turn ons for people. This write up falls under the " I spend my life online" take on the world.
I have dated a lot of goth girls and even married one. My top secret formula: I’m a goth guy who likes goth music and likes to dress goth and has similar interests to goth girls.
I know women who describe themselves as such 🤷♂️
Cause it's a meme