The Count of Monte Cristo [QQABB] Limited SSR Avenger Skills
• Iron Determination (Flame) EX - Increase Buster and Quick Effectiveness [20%-30%] (3T) and Apply Invincible (2 Times, 3T)
• King of the Cavern C - Increase Attack [20%-30%] (3T) and Apply "State where user inflicts Burn [500HP] (3T) when attacking" and Apply Poison Immunity (3T), and Apply Debuff Immunity (3 Times, 3T)
• Fourteen Treasures A - Increase NP Gauge [30%-50%], and Increase Critical Strength [30%-50%] (3T), and Increase C. Star Gather Rate [600%-1000%] (3T)
Cooldowns from 8/8/8 to 6/6/6
• NP Paradis Chateau d'If (Quick) - Apply Ignore Invincible (1T), 500% chance to Apply Stun to one enemy (1T), and Deal Damage [NP lvl: 1200%-2000%] along with Supereffective damage of 100% + 10% * [ for every Burn stack with a max of 10] to one enemy, and Decrease Defense [OC: 10%-30%] (3T) to one enemy, and 500% chance to Apply Burn on self [500HP] (3T) [Demerit]
Passives:
• Avenger B+ - Increase the amount of NP gained by 19% when damaged and Decrease Debuff Resist for all allies (including sub-members) by 9% except yourself [Demerit]
• Oblivion Correction EX - Increase Critical Strength by 12%
• Self Restoration (Magical Energy) D - Increase NP Gauge each turn by 3%
• Append 3 - Deals Increased Damage against Avengers
**Honey Lake the Servant**
It's about time I do a lengthy analysis.
The third Extra Class Servant after BB and Abigail who remains in their class even with their new form, Hyper Dantes even keeps his Lancer deck of being QQABB from his OG self, only this time, The Count of Monte Cristo went from AoE to ST, a reverse Abigail.
1st skill is Buster and Quick Up and Invincible of 2 hits on a 6 turn cooldown. What comes to mind for me is Izumo's 1st skill, except this one is already being better from the shorter cooldown to Invincibility being a better overall hard defense.
2nd skill is ATK Up, applies Burn when attacking (also includes NP), and apply Poison and Debuff Immunity, the former being 3 turns, and the latter being 3 times, 3 turns. Solid skill which comes in play with his NP.
3rd skill is a **50% NP charge, 50% Critical Strength Up for 3 turns, and 1k Star Gather of 3 turns**. Hot damn, he's a Kama, and this is better than most 50% battery/crit up skills.
The Noble Phantasm is what pushes him to absurd levels and why he is Honey Lake the Servant. **10 hits, Ignore Invincible, 500% Chance to Stun (Scathach's level!), deals damage, deal bonus damage on Burned enemies which scales with how many burns they got (think of Quirinus, Super Bunyan, and Charlemagne), decrease defense (OC scaled), and a self-Burn demerit**. What a fucking NP, Dantes 2 literally overcooked.
The Defense Down is quite small tho even when Overcharged and self-burn could hurt (can be fixed with Command Codes and Debuff Immunity, which he does have) but considering how absurd this NP already *on base* (we are looking at the 5th highest general damaging NP in the game, and that's not counting his own special modifiers for bonus damage) and he could even spam it back to back, potentially stun-locking the enemy to oblivion, those are fair drawbacks, and that won't stop CMC from raining heavenly fire and divine retribution to any unfortunate soul he encounters.
His most notable competition is Taira no Kagekiyo. When compared, Kagekiyo has two power mods, better crits and survivability, with their piercing NP being buff removal (except those with unremovable passives), while Hyper Dantes focuses on faster and literally Quick runs, can achieve his own stacking bonus damage that ramps up very fast without needing even to die with only Burn immunity being the notable con, and his piercing NP being Ignore Invincible (only some special defense/damage resistance could protect themselves from it). CMC being double Buster and double Quick (which synergizes well with Summer Skadi), easily achievable bonus damage, Ignore Invincible and Guaranteed Stun on his NP are the significant factors that edges in his favor.
CMC/Dantes 2 burns to fight and his vengeance will be swift and scalding, until nothing is left but ashes, just ask Roa in the Fate timelines.
Damn, i haven't caught this, but the combination of a limited times debuff immunity and that burn demerit on his NP kind of sucks. If he uses his NP back to back, he's going to waste all 3 times on a minor debuff that could be easily be removed with a CC. And there's nothing you can do to change it.
I suppose that if he's using his NP back to back, the boss will be permanently stunlocked and won't be able to use any debuffs. That does still leave break skills.
My point was that those debuff immunes would be wasted on something that could indeed be easily taken care of with CCs, leaving him open to worse stuff from enemies.
One could always save his S2 for the turns when it matters most, like when he pops a break bar filled with nasty debuffs, but then you leave ALL that extra Damage on the table in the process. Couple that with every one of his Skills having just a *bit* of inconvenience to them - S1 with the classic Offensive + Defense Trade Off, and his S3 forcing a trade between Crits and wasting NP Charge or not and not having any follow up after a NP - and you get a Servant that is strong but is kneecapping themselves in the process unless you play it safe with them. Not great, but it is interesting to note, and it solidifies his place as the DPS Quick \*5 Avenger to Yosh's Survival and Grudge fueled ramapages.
Thats a very high damage kit. Basically Dantes but better, with some survivability.
With certain command codes and the Honey Lake CE should boost his damage a lot.
Will depend what his NP gain rate for how good he ends up being.
Add the fact that he just gets 3% Charge for free and has near guaranteed Crits with his NP, S3, and Skadi Support, and he really shouldn't be struggling for charge unless he's fighting some super beefy Zerk.
I like how the skill with "Flame" in it's name isn't the one that inflicts Burn.
It's pretty much what you'd expect if someone said "new version of Dantes that's ST". Large battery, great NP, good self sufficiency.
Considering that in the upper limits of farming (90++ and beyond), proper counter Classing with ALL the Super Effective Damage and Buffs is practically the lowbar for 3-4 Turn entry, so a Zerk has to be extraordinary these days in order to earn a spot of those teams.
So, considering that his hitcounts and NP gain is almost identical to Kama's (Quick cards are 5 hits instead of 4 and NP gain is 0.72 instead of 0.74), is it just me or does he look like an upgrade to her?
I mean, guaranteed (leaving debuff immunity asides) stun on a very spammable NP, hard defense, ignore invincibility, plenty of steroids including good crit damage and a universal (again, leaving debuff immunity asides) damage mod on the NP? What the hell were they smoking here?
One could argue that with a 500% stun on a spammable NP, he has more survivability than just about anyone, when it comes to boss fights, anyway. I do prefer a timeless guts + large heal over a 2 times invincibility, not to mention the 1k hp difference.
I mean, i mentioned this in my first comment, so saw no need to repeat it again?
Also, applying common sense, you would probably prefer to use him against bosses that do not have those gimmicks, just like you wouldn't use Kama against charm/mental debuff immune/NP seal spamming ones. You still can, it's just not optimal, especially since debuff immunity/clear would also shut down his burn damage mod, thus depriving him of a lot of damage.
Oh obviously, my issue is with your claim about “more survival than just about anyone”. Like sure in a good situation for him he’ll be impossible to kill, but I can name a lot of units who are similar in that regard (like Kama).
Yeah, he's basically the ultimate variation of charm/stunlock units, which is what i meant.
As for a good situation, one could argue that everyone has good and bad use cases. For example, consider the (thankfully rare) bosses that strip your buffs with their attacks. Even the best servants with any kind of conventional survival like, say, Kagekiyo, would be close to helpless, while Dantes or Kama (who's less reliable) could stunlock them to the point it won't matter.
not really, especially with stun resistance or immunity bosses that post LB4 can have. but DoT can help reduce the HP of bosses by a good amount especially if you have defenses against the boss.
Resistance will not matter at all, since he has 500% success rate. Stun Immunity or general debuff immunity will be a significant detriment (especially if it blocks his burns too) but afaik the most common on bosses is mental debuff immunity, which does not block stuns.
With OC2 Dantes' nickname of "Grand Kareshi" (meaning "grand boyfriend") has come back in full force. It's by no means a new nickname with JP players but it had been a while, lmao.
Funnily enough though, Edmond is most popular with male (or male avatar) masters. He's the gay choice, basically.
The accepted boyfriend for the female master avatar over in JP has always been and remains Arjuna.
I’m wondering if we have any statistics to prove if newer servants have made an impact.
Particularly: Douman (won the swimsuit vote way back), Oberon (LB6 hype), & Tez (Need I say more?)
I don't believe we have anything official that goes beyond the very general popularity polls we have every year. Those types of very specific fandom metrics are usually put in a census of sorts by the fans themselves.
You know what's a surprisingly great metric to judge a character's popularity and the niche they're popular in? Pixiv. You can tell a lot by a character's pixiv tag and thats not even a joke. From how active it is to what the popular secondary tags are.
And for more specific stuff you kind of just have to be involved in that niche or the vicinity of the niche you want to know about. Beast Nero, for example, is INSANELY popular with lesbian players - but only in her armor ascension. Which is very interesting from a fandom study perspective because back when she came out in Arcade she did not have the reach or popularity she got when she was added in FGO with a cool black armor (and a whole event. But it was mostly the armor)
Bizarrely? Yes! Oberon is more universal, he doesn't have much of a lean towards male or female - not one that stays long enough anyway.
Besides Arjuna has an advantage over Oberon, which is that everyone agrees he's the boyfriend you actually want to introduce to your parents, whereas Oberon is more like the guy you date while going "damn, you live like this?" Haha
Huh, I was under the impression that he was just as popular among the ladies as he was among the guys. I see more doujins of Gudako x Dantes than I do with Gudao.
エドぐだ seems to have about twice as many works as ジュナぐだ though, at least on pixiv? While Junaguda has a similar amount of works to Merlin/Guda, or Hajime/Guda. Less than Robin/Guda even. Maybe "accepted boyfriend" isn't the best word to use since everyone has such a different variety of oshis, more like "most popular". In my experience JP fandoms don't really reach a consensus in that way, it's more "this is what i like, this is what you like". Even back before fgo was translated I noticed Ed/Gudako was pretty huge
I found some meme about gudako going well with "heavy" guys (ed/juna/obe) though i always loved that
Oh, wait, I see. See, most ed/gudao goes in the エドぐだ♂ and ぐだエド tags. But while エドぐだ♀ is used for ed/gudako sometimes, エドぐだ without an identifying mark has... over three times as much ed/gudako. So those tags can be tricky. At any rate this is def more of a question of simple popularity than "accepted fanon". I think Edmond is up there with Oberon in the "super mega popular to ship with either main character" category while Juna/Gudako is more like, "very popular but not any more or less than a lot of other ships" (although in canon he is undeniably down bad for you, at least in a クソデカ感情 sense)
Not exactly more popular in terms of volume, Oberon is a behemoth of popularity as we all know and that's when pitted against _any_ servant.
What I am talking about is who is considered the "canon" boyfriend for the Gudas by the JP fandom (of course there will be outliers, I'm talking about a majority consensus here). For Gudako, that is still Arjuna. Gudao is not as clear cut, but if we're talking about "boyfriend" that is often Edmond - as shown by the nickname of Grand Kareshi I mentioned.
Edmond is not _typically_ considered Gudako's "canon" (big inverted comas here) boyfriend, just like Arjuna is not typically considered Gudao's "canon" boyfriend, hence my calling Edmond the "gay choice" and Arjuna's JP reputation of being the perfect son in law you want to introduce to your parents.
... no. He's the gay choice because he's popular with gay players and artists who draw gay content.
You're the only person who misunderstood what I said in this entire thread, please read things carefully.
Which is to be expected - not only is he another iteration of a fan favorite, but as a Extra Class he pretty much needs all the buffs and damage he can get to be a choice worth consideration over proper counter classing or bringing a stall comp to a tough fight. Plus, the stronger they make him now, the less they have to screw around with his kit later to 'fix' things.
His kit seems very strong with 3 turn 3 times debuff immune, which is really good on bosses, and with burn CC and 2nd skill he will hit like a tank with his NP
Only issue with his debuff immune in boss fights is you'll be stunning them every turn while looping, and wasting his debuff immunity on the tiny burns he inflicts himself with his NP
his NP is actually so broken its borderline egregious, 500% chance to stun on a servant with good spam, good survival, and really good constant damage output is absurd. There's a reason Scathach's NP gain has always been somewhat scuffed throughout FGO, its to balance around the fact that she has that powerful stun, here comes Gankutsuou who has her same gimmick with none of the drawbacks to balance it.
I can't see how he wouldn't be absolute premium boss killer in teamplay and solo, but time will tell. Very dangerous servant to add to the game.
Some people will trash him cause “quick bad” but he basically invalidates all ST quick servants and arguably even ST buster. The only reason arts isn’t is because Castoria. However, on paper, this NP makes him stupider than even Draco or Summer Castoria. Spammable stun that is guaranteed unless the enemy is immune is absolutely busted.
His NP and kit together is so dummy broken that I'm fully expecting most bosses going forward to just be immune to stun. Or get a cleanse after every bar break.
If anything, I feel like Quick ST is possibly the strongest archetype and the most ideal one for an ST unit.
A Quick ST Servant can not only do huge amounts of critical hits and damage, they can gain back and loop their NPs, and still deal heavy damage in general, thanks to Quick ST being the highest damage modifier in the game.
In solo situations, Quick STs enjoys it the most as they get to keep all the stars to themselves, with crits bursting not only their damage but even their NP gain as well. Most Quick STs also has their own form of defense, be it hard disables (Kama, Scathach) or survivability (Kagekiyo, Saber Medusa).
anyone who still unironically thinks "quick bad" at this point in the game wouldn't know what a good servant is if it NPed them in the face
but yeah, hes around as offensively overtuned as Summer Castoria with an even more broken NP gimmick, absolutely absurd servant. Can't wait for them to start making every future boss stun immune so that every servant with stun that isn't broken gets to die for his sins.
It's interesting to learn that Dantes and Abby are similar where they have another version of them that are also 5 Stars and same Servant Class with the only difference is there Skills and their Noble Phantasms are AOE or Single. And the fact that Dantes pass his role to Abby.
But that would take the point of his character, he IS by proxy the most famous avenger in fiction, it's his core identity. This is not a surprise that he is considered the class's representative by default.
Well as always rules in the nasuverse are more of a suggestion but I get what u mean.
It's not terrible that he's an avenger but alter ego, pretender or berserker is a class u could always make a servant easily
It's kind of funny how Dantes became the face of the Avenger class despite not being the first. But it makes sense.
Angra, and by extension, the Avenger class itself, wasn't named until Heaven's Feel. And even then, the Avenger class was merely representative of the corruption of the holy grail and wasn't actually a class itself.
FGO redefined the class into basically antiheroes powered by hate and righteous fury. Hence the name Avenger. And with that in mind, Dantes makes the most sense as the Count of Monte Crisco is the well-known revenge story ever.
She’s still the better survival/solo unit, but yeah as a dps she’s not really close other than the fact she crits way harder. Although the bright side is taira is still better than Dante’s at what she good at, since she was never a good hyper carry.
Unless the enemy is immune to stun I would take the NP based hard survival over the skill based hard survival.
Dantes has two buster cards, plus the 10% defense down isn't much, but it does stack better than Crit damage.
So, I would bet New Dantes has better survival and crit damage too.
Edit: and he has 30% card effectiveness up. He definitely has better crit damage.
That first part doesn’t make much sense. What if there’s more than one enemy? What if they np seal on bar break? What if they are debuff immune/debuff resistant? What if they clear debuffs on bar break? What if they lower np gain so you can’t spam your np? What if they drain your np gauge on break bar? There is a TON of reasons why relying on your noble phantasm alone is not a good idea for survival, especially if the only thing it does is stun. Taira’s 4 cooldown stackable guts is the far better tool as it can be applied to magnitudes more survival situations that Edmond Dante’s stun.
Having another buster card and color steroids isn’t going to bridge their 50% gap in crit steroids, even if you include the def down. + it’s not even optimal for Dantes to use both of his busters in most cases because he needs to loop.
What if the enemy has pierce invul/Sure hit? What if the enemy removes Buffs? What if the enemy has Buff Block? What if the Enemy has skill Seal? What if the enemy has 5 million HP and 3 breakbars?
There's a reason Taira hasn't soloed any super recollection quest at neutral, but even Stheno has done so at class disadvantage.
If anything having both a skill and the NP, having both a hard defense and a debuff, for soloing makes him more flexible, not less so.
It absolutely does. Only 4% fewer steroids (Dantes has 6% more crit up on his passive too), but with better multiplicative scaling is way more than enough to close the gap. And sure, you will pick the quick cards if you can, but in a team you don't get your quick cards every turn, and outside of a team, having an entire new damage type is a huge deal.
Assuming a single first card quick crit solo:
Taira: 14856
Dantes without 10% defense down: 15361
Dantes with 10% defense down: 16357
Assuming a first card Quick crit with double Caster Skadi support:
Taira: 64509
Dantes without 10% defense down: 63518
Dantes with 10% defense down: 66861
To answer your first question, guts/(buff removal unless it’s perm). For removes buffs, it’s a good thing she has short cooldowns, so you can get back to your skills anyway pretty quickly depending on when they do it. Buff block isn’t too common, but if it is you can kinda just cleanse it as I don’t recall a boxed buff block. Skill seal isn’t bad as long as you activated the evade/guts a turn before it happens. For high hp counts, it’s not really countering hard invul and guts. Many people have Solo’d high hp counts with her before me included.
It’s not like taira can’t solo those quests, it’s just no one posted videos of them doing so.
You’d be right except that guts it’s just a more versatile skill than a single debuff. Your conditions that you mentioned don’t appear often in cqs and when they do it’s easily counterable, however Edmond’s main anti-condition, *more than one person*, appears in more than half the cqs that come out. It’s not the issue in relying on an np, it’s also relying on a debuff. More cqs include the things that stop Edmond than the things that stop taira, which is why Kama isn’t the better solo servant than taira right now.
I’ll concede in the crit damage thing. Thinking about it now you are right. However small correction, kagekiyo also has the 6% crit passive.
Short cooldowns still leave some downtime. Taira cannot handle high pressure solos forever, hp is an issue.
The videos haven't been posted because she can't do them. She barely did the one she had class advantage against and which didn't have a damaging NP (Qin Shi Huang) she had no hp or hard survival left at the end.
Kama isn't a better soloer than taira because she has an 80% chance at a mental debuff.
Dantes has a 500% chance at a non-mental debuff.
Oh, and another weakness, targeted taunt, taira relies on a guts, and taunt bypasses that.
Sure multiple enemies can be an issue, but it's not anymore common in harder content than any of the many other gimmicks.
Plus damage is important in solos too. There's a reason why Super Orion is considered a good solo servant with only a small guts for defense.
You missed that Dantes doesn't have a 6% crit passive he has 12% aka 6% more than Taira.
My bad for missing the passive, I assumed you meant Dante’s has a 6% one. Super Orion is good for his damage yes but it’s also his ability to kinda bypass a lot of gimmicks. I see multiple enemies as more common than ridiculously high hp.
Taira still had her evade in that solo, but in general yes I agree she struggled with those. However it feels disingenuous to use super recollection as that was literally just a bunch of cqs with very high hp enemies. Most cqs aren’t like that which is why she does do well against most of them. On the contrary, most cqs also have multiple servants which would make it hard for Dantes to solo. I feel like Dante’s is only better when it’s against high hp single person cqs with little gimmicks like super recollection. I’m still under the impression that more gimmicks counter him than the latter. A good point for this fact is stheno being able to solo because charm spam which isn’t a thing she normally can do in these cqs.
Yes kama’s is 80% not 500%, but her weaknesses in solos are largely the same as Edmond’s other than the fact he’ll bypass debuff resist.
In solos I don’t think taunts matter.
Taunts do matter, because they bypass guts.
If the enemy taunts you, and you have a guts, they will continue to attack you after the guts is procced, and thus kill you through the guts, even if you are the only servant on the field.
Even on the crits, his QQABB deck and 30% buster up will pair better with Ruler Skadi compared to Taira's QQAAB deck.
Taira's best case for critting is probably BQQE, getting
* B - 100% crit + 200% buster crit from Skadi + 70% attack up and + 30% Buster up as well (+20 crit up from command codes)
* Q - 100% + 0% from Skadi, + 70% attack up and + 130% Quick up (+20 crit up from command codes)
* Q - 100% + 0% from Skadi, + 70% attack up and + 130% Quick up (+20 crit up from command codes)
Count gets to go something like BQBE getting:
* +50% crit, +200% buster crit from Skadi, +70 attack up and 60% buster up
* +50%, 0% quick crit up, 70% attack and 160% quick up
* +50% crit, +200% buster crit from Skadi, +70 attack up and 60% buster up
That looks like 371,000 for Count with Honey Lake vs 286,000 for Taira with her bond CE. If Taira uses a max leveled Empty Garden instead, she gets up to 350,000.
Oh in hyper comp settings that makes sense, although not sure why you used her bond CE for the first calculation. However I will admit I was thinking about both of them in solo situations, in which Taira’s crits would be higher.
Also, can you check the damage on double regular skadi taira’s BQQ? I’m not sure it’ll be higher but I’m interested.
Double regular Skadi is better for Taira by my calcs at roughly 354,000 vs the 349,000 with Ruler Skadi. This does rely on getting both defense debuffs though, so it may not be as reliable.
Not by as much as I thought, but she definitely still does more damage. Honey Lake is a really strong CE, and there isn't an similarly strong CE for critical hits. And Count has buffs to buster and quick.
It's about an 8% advantage to Taira over Count, rather than the double you might expect from from their critical modifiers.
I still heavily doubt it’ll make up the 10% steroid difference. However I don’t have the count so I actually can’t really test it. I saw your damage calcs but someone else responded with different numbers so I’m not sure.
You underestimate multiplicative buffs. I have had times where it overcomes a more than 70% difference in total buffs.
They calced something different, that is why they got different numbers.
Although, using 12,700 atk as a base and then doing the multiplication myself gives a slight edge to Edmond, but I’m also not sure if I’m doing it right.
Yeah, I didn't check passives. Also made a math error with critical damage mod. I had 50% critical making a 100% card do 250% (100+(2+.5). It should be (100)x(2)*x(1+.5) for 300%, but stacking with power mod (so Count would deal 100x(2)x(1+.35+.66)x(1.3 B/Q up)x(1.3 atk) in a solo scenario [679] and Taira 100x(2)x(1+1.38)x(1.1)x(1.3) [681], assuming equal level CEs and applicable command codes.
For a BQB Count chain with a minimum level Honey Lake and double ruler skadi, it should be: **619,000 for the total damage.**
For a BQQ Taira chain with a max level Empty Garden and double regular Skadi, it should be: **601,000** for the total damage.
>Even on the crits, his QQABB deck and 30% buster up will pair better with Ruler Skadi compared to Taira's QQAAB deck.
The better question is, who uses taira with supports? I find them or any other party memeber to be a nuisance if am deploying her.
Glad they made him ST. I never like when they double down on the same class for a servant, but his kit is different enough from his og to feel fresh.
He plays a lot like Scathach where you want to consistently CC the enemy with your NP with a failsafe mechanism on your off turns, except his kit is more stacked at the cost of expiring sooner due to self burn and a slighty longer invincibility cooldown. He shines when properly supported but looks very fun to solo with as well. Very strong unit.
He is basically the highest damage ST servant in the game against bosses that aren't debuff immune.
Even without burn CCs he is putting out insane damage numbers. With them he likely simply invalidates the Archer and Caster classes as well as any other ST neutral or berserker.
His one turn damage isn't as high as some so they aren't completely useless, though he is hardly lacking in that either.
With an unleveled Honey Lake, 90, 1000/1000 fous, his base damage (assuming two attacks before NP to build burn stacks) is around 308,000 according to my calculations.
Taira with her bond CE, at 90, 1000/1000 would deal 70,000,
Of course, that neglects the rest of the damage in the chain. Assuming quick chains, burn command codes for Count and critical command codes (20%) for Taira, I'm getting a damage of:
Count: Q-Q-NP = 430,000
Taira: NP-Q-Q = 226,000
B-A-NP for Count and NP-A-B might do more damage, but I didn't want to make it more complicated.
Anyway, Count will do significantly more damage. Roughly 2x in a solo scenario, with better CE damage choices and much higher damage NP. Perhaps more when you are mostly relying the NP, backed by Skadi for support.
For fun, a maxed out 120, gold fous, level 100 Honey Lake Count of Monte Cristo with buffs from 2x Ruler Skadi and 1x Caster Skadi as well as Decisive Battle's attack buff, 10 burn stacks, and -50% Def from Skadi and 2x NPs would deal an average of 5.4 million to a Man attribute Ruler with the NP alone.
It would, I was just being lazy and not wanting to factor in a buster starter effect or mighty chains.
It wouldn't make up the difference though. NP A B, the best chain for this with It would be maybe 33% more damage than NP Q Q.
If we can take a proper comparison would be Archer Gilgamesh (Early-Mid) & Caster Gilgamesh (End) who depicts their mindset during a period of the story.
Classic Dantes would be referenced as the Dantes at the end of his journey but never let go of his feelings of vengeance by the heel realization of his actions (End).
Dantes 2 is the Dantes (Early-mid) during his bloody crusade in Paris which depicted him has more ruthless,cold, meticulous and calculated .
This is an extremely high tuned kit for a CQ unit.
Hit-based invulnerability, NP charge, debuffs immunity, 4/4 offensive buff types (color, attack, powerMod/crit/NP, and almost always applicable super effective damage), and a doozy of a 500% stun plus slightly stacking defense down on NP.
Slap a Honey Lake or event CE on him, and his weaknesses are fairly limited:
* buff removal
* debuff immunity
* pierce invulnerability
He is a bit awkward than he reads at first. His first skill has the defense/offense issue of a steroid you want to use immediately and a defense you want to save. His second skill's debuffs immunity conflicts with his NP's burn demerit, almost never getting it's full 3 ticks of value. And his third skill has the awkwardness of a big battery attached to his critical steroid, which may waste some NP charge on the second go around. His NP works best as a third hit to stack burn up, but then you lack any post-NP charge from your cards.
The deck is very solid. High hits at 5Q/3A/4B/5E/10NP with good NP charge at 0.72% but relatively low star generation at 6.1%. At +160% quick with Ruler Skadi, his NP will refund about 25% and generate around 21 critical stars. NPQQE should max stars and refund about 80 NP, while the NPAB mighty chain should hit like a truck and generate 30 stars and 64 NP (with crits).
He doesn't have Taira's ability to brute force seven turns of survivability as a solo unit (habetrot, guts CE, atlas, two uses of her evasion and guts), but his kit is extremely good as a DPS, deflecting incidental damage and debuffs while doing great both carding and NPing. As a solo unit, he relies on his stun to get those turns, but can't simply loop it (though perhaps every other turn). He's vastly better at abusing his stun than Enkidu or Shishou though.
His biggest downside is his much lower damage against the many debuff immune CQ bosses, which turns off Honey Lake and his super effective modifier. This also turns off his guaranteed stun.
In short, he's a great DPS for CQ content and a reasonable solo unit. In terms of raw damage, he will be among the highest single target damage dealers in the game against any opponent that can be burned.
For command codes, he can probably afford to run 3+ burn induces from:
* Consort of the Sun
* Crimson Codex
* Meteoric Bellows
* Djinn's Lamp
* True Crimson Immortal Maiden's Command Seal
* Gentleman with a Brilliant Goatee's Command Seal
These will allow him to potentially stack up 10 burns on a target for max damage on his NP, as well as keeping Honey Lake active when his second skill is down.
Honey Lake is an obvious choice for best in class CE, alongside event damage CEs.
He isn't just among the highest, unless you consider class advantage/niche vs his neutral
Assuming he has done an NP brave chain the previous turn, has double meta supports, has burn CCs, and a level 20 BG he deals 553k damage.
For comparison, the previous highest neutral damage (assuming similar 2 turns ramp up and double meta supports) was 369k damage
The ability to get his super effective mod up so quickly, while also having other mods on an avenger's great attack is crazy. I don't think they realized that with burn CEs on his cards his brave chain will add 6 stacks of burn (I believe the NP itself and extra will both proc his S2). A second NP will easily be able to max burn stacks to 10.
And that his not count the three other things on his NP: pierce invulnerability, defense down, and the 500% chance to stun on a 10-hit NP that actually refunds.
It's almost like he is a servant that guarantees hitting 500% multiplier on their niche (200%), because the SE scales on burn stacks and his actual overcharge effect is the defense drop.
you only need 1-2 burn codes at most b/c of skill 2, the CCs are basically there to maintain the SE rampup when his skills are on cooldown. Maximizing the amount of burn is probably worth less than standard CCs for cars damage or starbomb or healing or whatever.
it will apply 2 burns. I just don't think its optimal for all his cards to burn, only some need it. That's just me theorycrafting though, he just came out.
He doesn't cap until 10 stacks of burn, so unless you are consistently hitting that cap, it probably is worth it for all his cards to be burn CCs in a team.
Not so much in a Solo where you get all his cards each turn and he can hit the 10 stacks on his own without any burn CCs at all.
The Count of Monte Cristo [QQABB] Limited SSR Avenger Skills • Iron Determination (Flame) EX - Increase Buster and Quick Effectiveness [20%-30%] (3T) and Apply Invincible (2 Times, 3T) • King of the Cavern C - Increase Attack [20%-30%] (3T) and Apply "State where user inflicts Burn [500HP] (3T) when attacking" and Apply Poison Immunity (3T), and Apply Debuff Immunity (3 Times, 3T) • Fourteen Treasures A - Increase NP Gauge [30%-50%], and Increase Critical Strength [30%-50%] (3T), and Increase C. Star Gather Rate [600%-1000%] (3T) Cooldowns from 8/8/8 to 6/6/6 • NP Paradis Chateau d'If (Quick) - Apply Ignore Invincible (1T), 500% chance to Apply Stun to one enemy (1T), and Deal Damage [NP lvl: 1200%-2000%] along with Supereffective damage of 100% + 10% * [ for every Burn stack with a max of 10] to one enemy, and Decrease Defense [OC: 10%-30%] (3T) to one enemy, and 500% chance to Apply Burn on self [500HP] (3T) [Demerit] Passives: • Avenger B+ - Increase the amount of NP gained by 19% when damaged and Decrease Debuff Resist for all allies (including sub-members) by 9% except yourself [Demerit] • Oblivion Correction EX - Increase Critical Strength by 12% • Self Restoration (Magical Energy) D - Increase NP Gauge each turn by 3% • Append 3 - Deals Increased Damage against Avengers
I think that it's "14 treasures" instead of "14 jewels" they have the same translation from japanese
I changed it to that now.
**Honey Lake the Servant** It's about time I do a lengthy analysis. The third Extra Class Servant after BB and Abigail who remains in their class even with their new form, Hyper Dantes even keeps his Lancer deck of being QQABB from his OG self, only this time, The Count of Monte Cristo went from AoE to ST, a reverse Abigail. 1st skill is Buster and Quick Up and Invincible of 2 hits on a 6 turn cooldown. What comes to mind for me is Izumo's 1st skill, except this one is already being better from the shorter cooldown to Invincibility being a better overall hard defense. 2nd skill is ATK Up, applies Burn when attacking (also includes NP), and apply Poison and Debuff Immunity, the former being 3 turns, and the latter being 3 times, 3 turns. Solid skill which comes in play with his NP. 3rd skill is a **50% NP charge, 50% Critical Strength Up for 3 turns, and 1k Star Gather of 3 turns**. Hot damn, he's a Kama, and this is better than most 50% battery/crit up skills. The Noble Phantasm is what pushes him to absurd levels and why he is Honey Lake the Servant. **10 hits, Ignore Invincible, 500% Chance to Stun (Scathach's level!), deals damage, deal bonus damage on Burned enemies which scales with how many burns they got (think of Quirinus, Super Bunyan, and Charlemagne), decrease defense (OC scaled), and a self-Burn demerit**. What a fucking NP, Dantes 2 literally overcooked. The Defense Down is quite small tho even when Overcharged and self-burn could hurt (can be fixed with Command Codes and Debuff Immunity, which he does have) but considering how absurd this NP already *on base* (we are looking at the 5th highest general damaging NP in the game, and that's not counting his own special modifiers for bonus damage) and he could even spam it back to back, potentially stun-locking the enemy to oblivion, those are fair drawbacks, and that won't stop CMC from raining heavenly fire and divine retribution to any unfortunate soul he encounters. His most notable competition is Taira no Kagekiyo. When compared, Kagekiyo has two power mods, better crits and survivability, with their piercing NP being buff removal (except those with unremovable passives), while Hyper Dantes focuses on faster and literally Quick runs, can achieve his own stacking bonus damage that ramps up very fast without needing even to die with only Burn immunity being the notable con, and his piercing NP being Ignore Invincible (only some special defense/damage resistance could protect themselves from it). CMC being double Buster and double Quick (which synergizes well with Summer Skadi), easily achievable bonus damage, Ignore Invincible and Guaranteed Stun on his NP are the significant factors that edges in his favor. CMC/Dantes 2 burns to fight and his vengeance will be swift and scalding, until nothing is left but ashes, just ask Roa in the Fate timelines.
What a loaded NP lol
Damn, i haven't caught this, but the combination of a limited times debuff immunity and that burn demerit on his NP kind of sucks. If he uses his NP back to back, he's going to waste all 3 times on a minor debuff that could be easily be removed with a CC. And there's nothing you can do to change it. I suppose that if he's using his NP back to back, the boss will be permanently stunlocked and won't be able to use any debuffs. That does still leave break skills.
The burn demerit is easily fixed with CCs if he runs out of debuff immunes
My point was that those debuff immunes would be wasted on something that could indeed be easily taken care of with CCs, leaving him open to worse stuff from enemies.
One could always save his S2 for the turns when it matters most, like when he pops a break bar filled with nasty debuffs, but then you leave ALL that extra Damage on the table in the process. Couple that with every one of his Skills having just a *bit* of inconvenience to them - S1 with the classic Offensive + Defense Trade Off, and his S3 forcing a trade between Crits and wasting NP Charge or not and not having any follow up after a NP - and you get a Servant that is strong but is kneecapping themselves in the process unless you play it safe with them. Not great, but it is interesting to note, and it solidifies his place as the DPS Quick \*5 Avenger to Yosh's Survival and Grudge fueled ramapages.
Thats a very high damage kit. Basically Dantes but better, with some survivability. With certain command codes and the Honey Lake CE should boost his damage a lot. Will depend what his NP gain rate for how good he ends up being.
He's a CQ merchant so he should have no problem looping his np.
If he's being attacked he'll get a lot of charge back, especially since you'll wa t to use him in boss encounters
Add the fact that he just gets 3% Charge for free and has near guaranteed Crits with his NP, S3, and Skadi Support, and he really shouldn't be struggling for charge unless he's fighting some super beefy Zerk.
He is more like quick Yang Guifei imo
That’s just accounting for the Burn powermod, the way you can stack more of them for additional damage is like Locusta’s & ROMA’s.
I like how the skill with "Flame" in it's name isn't the one that inflicts Burn. It's pretty much what you'd expect if someone said "new version of Dantes that's ST". Large battery, great NP, good self sufficiency.
Yo another dps that's stronger with burn, now that's interesting
He's going to become Hao Hao's new boy toy, oh no.
Damn this guy literally has everything in his kit, only thing that holds him back is not being a zerk
which is debatedly not even a bad thing
Considering that in the upper limits of farming (90++ and beyond), proper counter Classing with ALL the Super Effective Damage and Buffs is practically the lowbar for 3-4 Turn entry, so a Zerk has to be extraordinary these days in order to earn a spot of those teams.
it's better to be Avenger than Berserker those days. especially with Foreigners lingering around with their monster decks.
Yep
So, considering that his hitcounts and NP gain is almost identical to Kama's (Quick cards are 5 hits instead of 4 and NP gain is 0.72 instead of 0.74), is it just me or does he look like an upgrade to her? I mean, guaranteed (leaving debuff immunity asides) stun on a very spammable NP, hard defense, ignore invincibility, plenty of steroids including good crit damage and a universal (again, leaving debuff immunity asides) damage mod on the NP? What the hell were they smoking here?
Lol he is the male version of Kama with a higher damage ceiling but less long term survivability. The power of being the prime female master servant.
One could argue that with a 500% stun on a spammable NP, he has more survivability than just about anyone, when it comes to boss fights, anyway. I do prefer a timeless guts + large heal over a 2 times invincibility, not to mention the 1k hp difference.
Not really. Debuff immune, np seal, aoe cqs, and more would stop it. His survival is not the best but it’s still good.
I mean, i mentioned this in my first comment, so saw no need to repeat it again? Also, applying common sense, you would probably prefer to use him against bosses that do not have those gimmicks, just like you wouldn't use Kama against charm/mental debuff immune/NP seal spamming ones. You still can, it's just not optimal, especially since debuff immunity/clear would also shut down his burn damage mod, thus depriving him of a lot of damage.
Oh obviously, my issue is with your claim about “more survival than just about anyone”. Like sure in a good situation for him he’ll be impossible to kill, but I can name a lot of units who are similar in that regard (like Kama).
Yeah, he's basically the ultimate variation of charm/stunlock units, which is what i meant. As for a good situation, one could argue that everyone has good and bad use cases. For example, consider the (thankfully rare) bosses that strip your buffs with their attacks. Even the best servants with any kind of conventional survival like, say, Kagekiyo, would be close to helpless, while Dantes or Kama (who's less reliable) could stunlock them to the point it won't matter.
Agreed, kagekiyo has bad situations as well. I just believe she’s more applicable.
not really, especially with stun resistance or immunity bosses that post LB4 can have. but DoT can help reduce the HP of bosses by a good amount especially if you have defenses against the boss.
Resistance will not matter at all, since he has 500% success rate. Stun Immunity or general debuff immunity will be a significant detriment (especially if it blocks his burns too) but afaik the most common on bosses is mental debuff immunity, which does not block stuns.
Stun resistance wont do shit, he has 500% chance to inflict stun
With OC2 Dantes' nickname of "Grand Kareshi" (meaning "grand boyfriend") has come back in full force. It's by no means a new nickname with JP players but it had been a while, lmao. Funnily enough though, Edmond is most popular with male (or male avatar) masters. He's the gay choice, basically. The accepted boyfriend for the female master avatar over in JP has always been and remains Arjuna.
I’m wondering if we have any statistics to prove if newer servants have made an impact. Particularly: Douman (won the swimsuit vote way back), Oberon (LB6 hype), & Tez (Need I say more?)
I don't believe we have anything official that goes beyond the very general popularity polls we have every year. Those types of very specific fandom metrics are usually put in a census of sorts by the fans themselves. You know what's a surprisingly great metric to judge a character's popularity and the niche they're popular in? Pixiv. You can tell a lot by a character's pixiv tag and thats not even a joke. From how active it is to what the popular secondary tags are. And for more specific stuff you kind of just have to be involved in that niche or the vicinity of the niche you want to know about. Beast Nero, for example, is INSANELY popular with lesbian players - but only in her armor ascension. Which is very interesting from a fandom study perspective because back when she came out in Arcade she did not have the reach or popularity she got when she was added in FGO with a cool black armor (and a whole event. But it was mostly the armor)
"The accepted boyfriend for the female master avatar over in JP has always been and remains Arjuna." Even more than Oberon?
Bizarrely? Yes! Oberon is more universal, he doesn't have much of a lean towards male or female - not one that stays long enough anyway. Besides Arjuna has an advantage over Oberon, which is that everyone agrees he's the boyfriend you actually want to introduce to your parents, whereas Oberon is more like the guy you date while going "damn, you live like this?" Haha
Huh, I was under the impression that he was just as popular among the ladies as he was among the guys. I see more doujins of Gudako x Dantes than I do with Gudao.
Funny how both of them are voiced by Nobunaga Shimazaki.
And both of them are voiced by shimazaki Nobunaga. My man does NOT take Ls I swear
エドぐだ seems to have about twice as many works as ジュナぐだ though, at least on pixiv? While Junaguda has a similar amount of works to Merlin/Guda, or Hajime/Guda. Less than Robin/Guda even. Maybe "accepted boyfriend" isn't the best word to use since everyone has such a different variety of oshis, more like "most popular". In my experience JP fandoms don't really reach a consensus in that way, it's more "this is what i like, this is what you like". Even back before fgo was translated I noticed Ed/Gudako was pretty huge I found some meme about gudako going well with "heavy" guys (ed/juna/obe) though i always loved that
Oh, wait, I see. See, most ed/gudao goes in the エドぐだ♂ and ぐだエド tags. But while エドぐだ♀ is used for ed/gudako sometimes, エドぐだ without an identifying mark has... over three times as much ed/gudako. So those tags can be tricky. At any rate this is def more of a question of simple popularity than "accepted fanon". I think Edmond is up there with Oberon in the "super mega popular to ship with either main character" category while Juna/Gudako is more like, "very popular but not any more or less than a lot of other ships" (although in canon he is undeniably down bad for you, at least in a クソデカ感情 sense)
[удалено]
Not exactly more popular in terms of volume, Oberon is a behemoth of popularity as we all know and that's when pitted against _any_ servant. What I am talking about is who is considered the "canon" boyfriend for the Gudas by the JP fandom (of course there will be outliers, I'm talking about a majority consensus here). For Gudako, that is still Arjuna. Gudao is not as clear cut, but if we're talking about "boyfriend" that is often Edmond - as shown by the nickname of Grand Kareshi I mentioned. Edmond is not _typically_ considered Gudako's "canon" (big inverted comas here) boyfriend, just like Arjuna is not typically considered Gudao's "canon" boyfriend, hence my calling Edmond the "gay choice" and Arjuna's JP reputation of being the perfect son in law you want to introduce to your parents.
So if you like a male character you’re gay ? I swear you people 🤣🤣🤣
... no. He's the gay choice because he's popular with gay players and artists who draw gay content. You're the only person who misunderstood what I said in this entire thread, please read things carefully.
Honestly his kit is pretty loaded, especially for a ST quick avenger.
Which is to be expected - not only is he another iteration of a fan favorite, but as a Extra Class he pretty much needs all the buffs and damage he can get to be a choice worth consideration over proper counter classing or bringing a stall comp to a tough fight. Plus, the stronger they make him now, the less they have to screw around with his kit later to 'fix' things.
Oh I get it. Paradis means heaven. And what better way to deliver heavenly fury than fire.
It also parallel Dantès' NP in that way, since Enfer means hell
And his Dots are Curses in his original form
500% chance to Stun On a quick unit that can spam NP also with 50% battery; a CQ boss can be stun-lock for at least 3-4 turn, this feels broken.
Dantes is such a well-loved and popular character, they made a sequel called Dantes 2.
Electric boogaloo
Nah, fire boogaloo.
His kit seems very strong with 3 turn 3 times debuff immune, which is really good on bosses, and with burn CC and 2nd skill he will hit like a tank with his NP
Only issue with his debuff immune in boss fights is you'll be stunning them every turn while looping, and wasting his debuff immunity on the tiny burns he inflicts himself with his NP
Those burns do stack up over time though.
If that 500 burn is really an issue you can use a code cure. I'd much rather have him block a seal, stun, buff block, etc.
his NP is actually so broken its borderline egregious, 500% chance to stun on a servant with good spam, good survival, and really good constant damage output is absurd. There's a reason Scathach's NP gain has always been somewhat scuffed throughout FGO, its to balance around the fact that she has that powerful stun, here comes Gankutsuou who has her same gimmick with none of the drawbacks to balance it. I can't see how he wouldn't be absolute premium boss killer in teamplay and solo, but time will tell. Very dangerous servant to add to the game.
Some people will trash him cause “quick bad” but he basically invalidates all ST quick servants and arguably even ST buster. The only reason arts isn’t is because Castoria. However, on paper, this NP makes him stupider than even Draco or Summer Castoria. Spammable stun that is guaranteed unless the enemy is immune is absolutely busted.
His NP and kit together is so dummy broken that I'm fully expecting most bosses going forward to just be immune to stun. Or get a cleanse after every bar break.
Honestly even just being immune to burn could be enough, depending on how reliant he'd be on it to deal necessary damage
If anything, I feel like Quick ST is possibly the strongest archetype and the most ideal one for an ST unit. A Quick ST Servant can not only do huge amounts of critical hits and damage, they can gain back and loop their NPs, and still deal heavy damage in general, thanks to Quick ST being the highest damage modifier in the game. In solo situations, Quick STs enjoys it the most as they get to keep all the stars to themselves, with crits bursting not only their damage but even their NP gain as well. Most Quick STs also has their own form of defense, be it hard disables (Kama, Scathach) or survivability (Kagekiyo, Saber Medusa).
anyone who still unironically thinks "quick bad" at this point in the game wouldn't know what a good servant is if it NPed them in the face but yeah, hes around as offensively overtuned as Summer Castoria with an even more broken NP gimmick, absolutely absurd servant. Can't wait for them to start making every future boss stun immune so that every servant with stun that isn't broken gets to die for his sins.
500% Chance to Stun in insane honestly *looks at Saber Medusa oof*
says a lot when arguably the strongest ST Saber right now is a balanced version of him
Yeah, >!Cagliostro found all of this out the hard way!<.
Cant wait for every boss to be immune to stun in the future due to him now.
Jesus man , look at this kit then look at Shishou's kit bruh .
It's rather old, isn't it? Like her.
*Radiant-Hope ga shinda*
Kono hito da nashi!!
Still angry they didn't buff her during arcade collab. She either needs a proper battery or for her skills to last more than 1 turn.
Kinda sad that he's still an avenger because this is mostly just dantes but stronger and ST
It's interesting to learn that Dantes and Abby are similar where they have another version of them that are also 5 Stars and same Servant Class with the only difference is there Skills and their Noble Phantasms are AOE or Single. And the fact that Dantes pass his role to Abby.
Also BB too, and maybe Nemo (triple in his case).
BB went from ST Arts to AoE Buster. She doesn't count.
Oh she definitely counts, she is Moon Cancer through and through.
And she's all the more wonderful for it - though she could use a CD reduction on her S2 so that she can more firmly be out of Arc's shadow...
But that would take the point of his character, he IS by proxy the most famous avenger in fiction, it's his core identity. This is not a surprise that he is considered the class's representative by default.
Well as always rules in the nasuverse are more of a suggestion but I get what u mean. It's not terrible that he's an avenger but alter ego, pretender or berserker is a class u could always make a servant easily
Angry mango in the corner:
He is only a famous Avenger in Fate tbh. In other fictions Dante is way more famous and more fit as Avenger representative
It's kind of funny how Dantes became the face of the Avenger class despite not being the first. But it makes sense. Angra, and by extension, the Avenger class itself, wasn't named until Heaven's Feel. And even then, the Avenger class was merely representative of the corruption of the holy grail and wasn't actually a class itself. FGO redefined the class into basically antiheroes powered by hate and righteous fury. Hence the name Avenger. And with that in mind, Dantes makes the most sense as the Count of Monte Crisco is the well-known revenge story ever.
Can't wait for John Wick (Avenger).
Emphasis on "considered" and adding for his role in OC2
I'm still on copium that they could buff OG Dantes' first skill. It could happen! ;-;
They buffed Jeanne's, so it's possible he'd receive some buff in a few days. Would be a bit to generous, but it's still on the table.
Man, they powercrept the shit out of my poor Taira :(
And by the original FGO Avenger, no less.
She’s still the better survival/solo unit, but yeah as a dps she’s not really close other than the fact she crits way harder. Although the bright side is taira is still better than Dante’s at what she good at, since she was never a good hyper carry.
Unless the enemy is immune to stun I would take the NP based hard survival over the skill based hard survival. Dantes has two buster cards, plus the 10% defense down isn't much, but it does stack better than Crit damage. So, I would bet New Dantes has better survival and crit damage too. Edit: and he has 30% card effectiveness up. He definitely has better crit damage.
That first part doesn’t make much sense. What if there’s more than one enemy? What if they np seal on bar break? What if they are debuff immune/debuff resistant? What if they clear debuffs on bar break? What if they lower np gain so you can’t spam your np? What if they drain your np gauge on break bar? There is a TON of reasons why relying on your noble phantasm alone is not a good idea for survival, especially if the only thing it does is stun. Taira’s 4 cooldown stackable guts is the far better tool as it can be applied to magnitudes more survival situations that Edmond Dante’s stun. Having another buster card and color steroids isn’t going to bridge their 50% gap in crit steroids, even if you include the def down. + it’s not even optimal for Dantes to use both of his busters in most cases because he needs to loop.
What if the enemy has pierce invul/Sure hit? What if the enemy removes Buffs? What if the enemy has Buff Block? What if the Enemy has skill Seal? What if the enemy has 5 million HP and 3 breakbars? There's a reason Taira hasn't soloed any super recollection quest at neutral, but even Stheno has done so at class disadvantage. If anything having both a skill and the NP, having both a hard defense and a debuff, for soloing makes him more flexible, not less so. It absolutely does. Only 4% fewer steroids (Dantes has 6% more crit up on his passive too), but with better multiplicative scaling is way more than enough to close the gap. And sure, you will pick the quick cards if you can, but in a team you don't get your quick cards every turn, and outside of a team, having an entire new damage type is a huge deal. Assuming a single first card quick crit solo: Taira: 14856 Dantes without 10% defense down: 15361 Dantes with 10% defense down: 16357 Assuming a first card Quick crit with double Caster Skadi support: Taira: 64509 Dantes without 10% defense down: 63518 Dantes with 10% defense down: 66861
To answer your first question, guts/(buff removal unless it’s perm). For removes buffs, it’s a good thing she has short cooldowns, so you can get back to your skills anyway pretty quickly depending on when they do it. Buff block isn’t too common, but if it is you can kinda just cleanse it as I don’t recall a boxed buff block. Skill seal isn’t bad as long as you activated the evade/guts a turn before it happens. For high hp counts, it’s not really countering hard invul and guts. Many people have Solo’d high hp counts with her before me included. It’s not like taira can’t solo those quests, it’s just no one posted videos of them doing so. You’d be right except that guts it’s just a more versatile skill than a single debuff. Your conditions that you mentioned don’t appear often in cqs and when they do it’s easily counterable, however Edmond’s main anti-condition, *more than one person*, appears in more than half the cqs that come out. It’s not the issue in relying on an np, it’s also relying on a debuff. More cqs include the things that stop Edmond than the things that stop taira, which is why Kama isn’t the better solo servant than taira right now. I’ll concede in the crit damage thing. Thinking about it now you are right. However small correction, kagekiyo also has the 6% crit passive.
Short cooldowns still leave some downtime. Taira cannot handle high pressure solos forever, hp is an issue. The videos haven't been posted because she can't do them. She barely did the one she had class advantage against and which didn't have a damaging NP (Qin Shi Huang) she had no hp or hard survival left at the end. Kama isn't a better soloer than taira because she has an 80% chance at a mental debuff. Dantes has a 500% chance at a non-mental debuff. Oh, and another weakness, targeted taunt, taira relies on a guts, and taunt bypasses that. Sure multiple enemies can be an issue, but it's not anymore common in harder content than any of the many other gimmicks. Plus damage is important in solos too. There's a reason why Super Orion is considered a good solo servant with only a small guts for defense. You missed that Dantes doesn't have a 6% crit passive he has 12% aka 6% more than Taira.
Honestly I think I’m coping really hard right now. Please ignore me 😭
My bad for missing the passive, I assumed you meant Dante’s has a 6% one. Super Orion is good for his damage yes but it’s also his ability to kinda bypass a lot of gimmicks. I see multiple enemies as more common than ridiculously high hp. Taira still had her evade in that solo, but in general yes I agree she struggled with those. However it feels disingenuous to use super recollection as that was literally just a bunch of cqs with very high hp enemies. Most cqs aren’t like that which is why she does do well against most of them. On the contrary, most cqs also have multiple servants which would make it hard for Dantes to solo. I feel like Dante’s is only better when it’s against high hp single person cqs with little gimmicks like super recollection. I’m still under the impression that more gimmicks counter him than the latter. A good point for this fact is stheno being able to solo because charm spam which isn’t a thing she normally can do in these cqs. Yes kama’s is 80% not 500%, but her weaknesses in solos are largely the same as Edmond’s other than the fact he’ll bypass debuff resist. In solos I don’t think taunts matter.
Taunts do matter, because they bypass guts. If the enemy taunts you, and you have a guts, they will continue to attack you after the guts is procced, and thus kill you through the guts, even if you are the only servant on the field.
I believe that only happens with multiple enemies right? If it’s one they’ll still only proc it once
to my knowledge, guts arent removed by buff removal. It has to specifically remove guts like with santa karna though l could be wrong.
You are wrong. Guts aren't removed by defensive buff removal. But they are removed by buff removal.
Even on the crits, his QQABB deck and 30% buster up will pair better with Ruler Skadi compared to Taira's QQAAB deck. Taira's best case for critting is probably BQQE, getting * B - 100% crit + 200% buster crit from Skadi + 70% attack up and + 30% Buster up as well (+20 crit up from command codes) * Q - 100% + 0% from Skadi, + 70% attack up and + 130% Quick up (+20 crit up from command codes) * Q - 100% + 0% from Skadi, + 70% attack up and + 130% Quick up (+20 crit up from command codes) Count gets to go something like BQBE getting: * +50% crit, +200% buster crit from Skadi, +70 attack up and 60% buster up * +50%, 0% quick crit up, 70% attack and 160% quick up * +50% crit, +200% buster crit from Skadi, +70 attack up and 60% buster up That looks like 371,000 for Count with Honey Lake vs 286,000 for Taira with her bond CE. If Taira uses a max leveled Empty Garden instead, she gets up to 350,000.
Oh in hyper comp settings that makes sense, although not sure why you used her bond CE for the first calculation. However I will admit I was thinking about both of them in solo situations, in which Taira’s crits would be higher. Also, can you check the damage on double regular skadi taira’s BQQ? I’m not sure it’ll be higher but I’m interested.
Double regular Skadi is better for Taira by my calcs at roughly 354,000 vs the 349,000 with Ruler Skadi. This does rely on getting both defense debuffs though, so it may not be as reliable.
I see, it does suck that she has weaker crits in a team. However she does still have stronger crits in solo situations right?
Not by as much as I thought, but she definitely still does more damage. Honey Lake is a really strong CE, and there isn't an similarly strong CE for critical hits. And Count has buffs to buster and quick. It's about an 8% advantage to Taira over Count, rather than the double you might expect from from their critical modifiers.
That’s somewhat hopeful, but it definitely seems like he has the general advantage.
No it's worse in solos. Losing an entire damage type hurts her a ton.
I still heavily doubt it’ll make up the 10% steroid difference. However I don’t have the count so I actually can’t really test it. I saw your damage calcs but someone else responded with different numbers so I’m not sure.
You underestimate multiplicative buffs. I have had times where it overcomes a more than 70% difference in total buffs. They calced something different, that is why they got different numbers.
Well that is if they’re similar, like 30% 50% 70% vs 250%. Not 30% 30% 50% 10% vs 30% 100% And wouldn’t you both be calcing solo crit damage?
Although, using 12,700 atk as a base and then doing the multiplication myself gives a slight edge to Edmond, but I’m also not sure if I’m doing it right.
You also forgot that Dantes has 12% passive Crit damage vs Taira's 6% which increases the damage difference
Yeah, I didn't check passives. Also made a math error with critical damage mod. I had 50% critical making a 100% card do 250% (100+(2+.5). It should be (100)x(2)*x(1+.5) for 300%, but stacking with power mod (so Count would deal 100x(2)x(1+.35+.66)x(1.3 B/Q up)x(1.3 atk) in a solo scenario [679] and Taira 100x(2)x(1+1.38)x(1.1)x(1.3) [681], assuming equal level CEs and applicable command codes. For a BQB Count chain with a minimum level Honey Lake and double ruler skadi, it should be: **619,000 for the total damage.** For a BQQ Taira chain with a max level Empty Garden and double regular Skadi, it should be: **601,000** for the total damage.
Do keep in mind that Caster Skadi gives more crit damage to The count too because of the quick up. So his BQQ chain would be even higher
>Even on the crits, his QQABB deck and 30% buster up will pair better with Ruler Skadi compared to Taira's QQAAB deck. The better question is, who uses taira with supports? I find them or any other party memeber to be a nuisance if am deploying her.
Glad they made him ST. I never like when they double down on the same class for a servant, but his kit is different enough from his og to feel fresh. He plays a lot like Scathach where you want to consistently CC the enemy with your NP with a failsafe mechanism on your off turns, except his kit is more stacked at the cost of expiring sooner due to self burn and a slighty longer invincibility cooldown. He shines when properly supported but looks very fun to solo with as well. Very strong unit.
Atleast he’s not an AOE NP servant.
OG Dantes: I know, right?
So how much more damage does he do compared to Taira?
He is basically the highest damage ST servant in the game against bosses that aren't debuff immune. Even without burn CCs he is putting out insane damage numbers. With them he likely simply invalidates the Archer and Caster classes as well as any other ST neutral or berserker. His one turn damage isn't as high as some so they aren't completely useless, though he is hardly lacking in that either.
With an unleveled Honey Lake, 90, 1000/1000 fous, his base damage (assuming two attacks before NP to build burn stacks) is around 308,000 according to my calculations. Taira with her bond CE, at 90, 1000/1000 would deal 70,000, Of course, that neglects the rest of the damage in the chain. Assuming quick chains, burn command codes for Count and critical command codes (20%) for Taira, I'm getting a damage of: Count: Q-Q-NP = 430,000 Taira: NP-Q-Q = 226,000 B-A-NP for Count and NP-A-B might do more damage, but I didn't want to make it more complicated. Anyway, Count will do significantly more damage. Roughly 2x in a solo scenario, with better CE damage choices and much higher damage NP. Perhaps more when you are mostly relying the NP, backed by Skadi for support. For fun, a maxed out 120, gold fous, level 100 Honey Lake Count of Monte Cristo with buffs from 2x Ruler Skadi and 1x Caster Skadi as well as Decisive Battle's attack buff, 10 burn stacks, and -50% Def from Skadi and 2x NPs would deal an average of 5.4 million to a Man attribute Ruler with the NP alone.
Wouldn’t B NP Q/A do more damage for Taira?
It would, I was just being lazy and not wanting to factor in a buster starter effect or mighty chains. It wouldn't make up the difference though. NP A B, the best chain for this with It would be maybe 33% more damage than NP Q Q.
Yes I know that it woke make the difference, but just making sure she had a better combination because you mentioned one for Dantes.
Way more, but she’s not really a damage unit
Aside from NP spammability, if his Star generation is good (and of course it is), he'll be Summer Skadi's new best friend for a long while
So lore wise what makes him different to regular dante
If we can take a proper comparison would be Archer Gilgamesh (Early-Mid) & Caster Gilgamesh (End) who depicts their mindset during a period of the story. Classic Dantes would be referenced as the Dantes at the end of his journey but never let go of his feelings of vengeance by the heel realization of his actions (End). Dantes 2 is the Dantes (Early-mid) during his bloody crusade in Paris which depicted him has more ruthless,cold, meticulous and calculated .
Dantes 3 will be Dantes as Sinbad the Sailor with pretender class. This Dantes will be depicted as in his preparation stage of revenge. (Mid)
Compare all these effects to year 1 servants lmao. They need to keep updating old servants
I'm more afraid of the implications of future content with a servant that can loop stun now existing
We already had Kama and Van Gogh. So that isn't the broken part of his kit.
I don't follow JP mainly because of spoilers.... but is this a new Dantes??? I'm so here for this! Goodbye down payment for house!
Yep, brand new Dantes, with a little extra edge this time
Cannot wait!! I love the Dantes we have on NA, looking forward to this version too!
I wonder if he pisses in a hot topic.
And on someone's wife (probably Cagliostro's, assuming he had one).
He pisses on Ushi's wife
And he said his rod was # "THIIIIIISSS BIIIIIIIG."
This is an extremely high tuned kit for a CQ unit. Hit-based invulnerability, NP charge, debuffs immunity, 4/4 offensive buff types (color, attack, powerMod/crit/NP, and almost always applicable super effective damage), and a doozy of a 500% stun plus slightly stacking defense down on NP. Slap a Honey Lake or event CE on him, and his weaknesses are fairly limited: * buff removal * debuff immunity * pierce invulnerability He is a bit awkward than he reads at first. His first skill has the defense/offense issue of a steroid you want to use immediately and a defense you want to save. His second skill's debuffs immunity conflicts with his NP's burn demerit, almost never getting it's full 3 ticks of value. And his third skill has the awkwardness of a big battery attached to his critical steroid, which may waste some NP charge on the second go around. His NP works best as a third hit to stack burn up, but then you lack any post-NP charge from your cards. The deck is very solid. High hits at 5Q/3A/4B/5E/10NP with good NP charge at 0.72% but relatively low star generation at 6.1%. At +160% quick with Ruler Skadi, his NP will refund about 25% and generate around 21 critical stars. NPQQE should max stars and refund about 80 NP, while the NPAB mighty chain should hit like a truck and generate 30 stars and 64 NP (with crits). He doesn't have Taira's ability to brute force seven turns of survivability as a solo unit (habetrot, guts CE, atlas, two uses of her evasion and guts), but his kit is extremely good as a DPS, deflecting incidental damage and debuffs while doing great both carding and NPing. As a solo unit, he relies on his stun to get those turns, but can't simply loop it (though perhaps every other turn). He's vastly better at abusing his stun than Enkidu or Shishou though. His biggest downside is his much lower damage against the many debuff immune CQ bosses, which turns off Honey Lake and his super effective modifier. This also turns off his guaranteed stun. In short, he's a great DPS for CQ content and a reasonable solo unit. In terms of raw damage, he will be among the highest single target damage dealers in the game against any opponent that can be burned. For command codes, he can probably afford to run 3+ burn induces from: * Consort of the Sun * Crimson Codex * Meteoric Bellows * Djinn's Lamp * True Crimson Immortal Maiden's Command Seal * Gentleman with a Brilliant Goatee's Command Seal These will allow him to potentially stack up 10 burns on a target for max damage on his NP, as well as keeping Honey Lake active when his second skill is down. Honey Lake is an obvious choice for best in class CE, alongside event damage CEs.
He isn't just among the highest, unless you consider class advantage/niche vs his neutral Assuming he has done an NP brave chain the previous turn, has double meta supports, has burn CCs, and a level 20 BG he deals 553k damage. For comparison, the previous highest neutral damage (assuming similar 2 turns ramp up and double meta supports) was 369k damage
The ability to get his super effective mod up so quickly, while also having other mods on an avenger's great attack is crazy. I don't think they realized that with burn CEs on his cards his brave chain will add 6 stacks of burn (I believe the NP itself and extra will both proc his S2). A second NP will easily be able to max burn stacks to 10. And that his not count the three other things on his NP: pierce invulnerability, defense down, and the 500% chance to stun on a 10-hit NP that actually refunds. It's almost like he is a servant that guarantees hitting 500% multiplier on their niche (200%), because the SE scales on burn stacks and his actual overcharge effect is the defense drop.
Oh hey, more reasons to call him Super Dantes
wait, that sounds familiar! Could he be the fabled son of....
Dantes x Skadi is my favorite stupid crackship just because of their gameplay synergy and I’m glad to see it still works with both of their new alts
As someone who loves playing Yang Guifei for the burn stack shenanigans, this is everything I could have hoped for in a kit
So his best Command Codes are indisputably the ones that burn, right? Or are there others that he would prefer more?
you only need 1-2 burn codes at most b/c of skill 2, the CCs are basically there to maintain the SE rampup when his skills are on cooldown. Maximizing the amount of burn is probably worth less than standard CCs for cars damage or starbomb or healing or whatever.
Interesting. If his second Skill is active and set to apply a burn, would the CC not apply a second burn?
it will apply 2 burns. I just don't think its optimal for all his cards to burn, only some need it. That's just me theorycrafting though, he just came out.
He doesn't cap until 10 stacks of burn, so unless you are consistently hitting that cap, it probably is worth it for all his cards to be burn CCs in a team. Not so much in a Solo where you get all his cards each turn and he can hit the 10 stacks on his own without any burn CCs at all.
Nope, they both apply burn.
Holy shit is that his fa!!!
Between Dante and Jalter who is better now ? Jalter seem better at farming while Dante has some advantages at challenge quest
This would be scathach if she had released in 2024. Being year 1 is a curse.
Why does he look like he could be a jojo stand or a persona
This kit is fucking bonkers
He'll pair nicely with Honey Lake.
It's his best freebie option, but Black Grail is still better.
The invul pierce is wasted on the CE is wasted tho.
But the extra damage against enemies with burn though.
You'd rather have Black Grail, or a Crit or Quick buffing CE.
Unfortunate that he's a ST quick servant and the quick archetype *STILL* doesn't have a proper boss fight support.