The city of GR is pretty chill. Getting into the 'burbs is a different story, but the city itself is a very friendly place generally speaking. There are lots of Christian churches but there are a few synagogues and mosques, as well as Jewish and Muslim centers. I believe there are also a couple of Sikh temples.
Beyond places of community and worship, I see people with turbans, yamakas, and hijaabs frequently around town and others don't seem to glance their way. Even if there were judgment, Midwestern politeness typically keeps people from being super assholes. The city itself has become a lot more progressive in recent years and seems to be more tolerant towards non-Christian faiths than when I first moved here a decade ago.
Yeah the amount of shit that I get for being blunt and to the point of being accused of being rude is just baffling to me. My mom was born and raised in New Jersey so I guess that rubbed off on me.
I don’t know what Dutch you’re interacting with, but we’re not passive aggressive. In fact, [we’re the exact opposite.](https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20180131-where-dutch-directness-comes-from)
The Dutch Reformed who populated West Michigan were not the Dutch typified by Amsterdam's culture."A division in the Reformed Church that pitted **conservative Calvinists** against **the increasingly liberal State Church** forced many Dutch to emigrate. At the same time, three clergymen organized colonies on the Midwestern frontier. In 1848 Father Theodore J. Van den Broek (1783-1851) established a Catholic community in Little Chute, near Green Bay, Wisconsin. Two conservative Reformed pastors, Albertus Van Raalte (1811-1876) and Hendrik P. Scholte (1805-1868) founded respectively, **Holland, Michigan (1847**) and Pella, Iowa (1847)." \~ *Countries and Their Cultures*
The ones who ran away from the Netherlands to America so they could be religious freaks and live in a completely different culture which that article isn't talking about at all
West Michigan Dutch are wildly passive aggressive. It largely comes from a misunderstanding of what it means to be humble; many think speaking up/being direct is a self-centered action. You end up with a lot of emotional immaturity that way.
Not all though! Many have learned, or are learning, and shouts out to the individuals in those families trying to be better.
I'm third-gen/fourth-gen Dutch born and raised in the SW Michigan area. My great-grandfather was a very direct Dutch man (as your article points out) and settled here in the 1910s. I wonder if, through the generations in the Midwest, they became less direct and more passive-aggressive, at least in my personal experience. My grandma is half-Dutch and half English so she may have been more tight-lipped and passive due to her English side. She is also of the Silent Generation. Interesting nonetheless!
> I believe there are also a couple of Sikh temples.
I think there's two. I know I've been to one of them and it's pretty far east of town. But IIRC, my Sikh buddy who took me there told me that there was another one as well.
They are called gurwaras not temples. One is in cascade and the other on Leonard. Calvin used to have a great community program for folks interested in other faiths. It was super interesting and everyone was so welcoming. Little pockets of GR are intolerant. Not going to specify where. You will know when you are there. Skip the areas with no diversity. That shit is not an accident.
I think you meant Gurdwara ...unless you're referring to the famous musician Anuj Gurwara. But that would make even less sense in the context.
And also I was quoting the person above me, and really I felt like correcting them as it felt pretty trivial relative to the point that I was trying to make: which is that there are places of worship for Sikh people in Grand Rapids.
I agree for the most part. I live on the very edge of the city limits and most of us are the live and let live type people and aren't assholes to each other.. there are a few people who feel its their job to stick their nose in other peoples business, complain about everything and swear they aren't bigots and play the midwest nice card to your face but then talk shit behind your back. These of the same people who think Trump had the election stolen and want to ban books, join school boards and city consoles just to push their radical views and cause all kinds of headaches.
The more you get away from town out into the suburbs particularly west of GR it gets much worse.
In general, I wouldn't say you're likely to feel ostracized for not being Christian. There are definitely a lot of Jesusy folks in west Michigan (especially Ottawa county), but GR has a pretty diverse population, and I can't imagine it really being much of a barrier.
When I moved here in 2020 from Wisconsin, I hadn't noticed that big of a difference, other than the names being Dutch instead of German.
Over the years I've noticed (especially in the areas outside of GR proper) the overt religious nature of some of the people. Not that it's bothered me, and that's not to say we're not religious in Wisconsin, very much so. But this def felt different in some way I couldn't put my finger on.
Over the summer I started working at a restaurant in Ottawa County (literally right over the border from Kent) and it was like a completely different state. I've never seen so many people pray in public, or pray over me in a public setting. Again, it's not a bother to me, but I've never seen anything like it outside of the South. Really caught me off guard.
What did start bothering me was the open racism, homophbia, and MAGA/Q speak from guests. Like they presumed as a cis, white, middle-aged male that I was all aboard the MAGA train. Seemed to get taken aback when I started to push back on the Faux News narrative. Glad to not be employed there anymore for that reason.
It's not everyone there obviously, i meant some absolutely beautiful people in my time there. But the bluntness of it all from a relatively large portion of the clientele was staggering, and I grew up in Waukesha County Wisconsin (if you know, you know).
Don’t live in Ottawa county they’re a step away from complete religious fascism. You’ll be fine in the greater Grand Rapids area, people are very accepting. Our family & my kids have friends of all different backgrounds in our neighborhood/school & I’d say we’re in a predominantly white middle class area.
It’s still not, there’s still a lot of racism and bigotry in marginalized spaces spaces like the pride center. They got a lot of flack for their lack of response or care for the BIPOC queer community.
Also people got real quiet real quick a couple of months after the Patrick Lyoya situation happened, you think that if people really cared about black lives like all these signs around town they would demand accountability and justice from the city who continue to silence and arrest peaceful protesters for requesting such a thing.
The church freaks who protest the abortion clinic are hilarious though. We used to protest the protestors back in college and then go get gyros or poke bowls after. I don't think anyone is offended for those extremists, most understand they are extremists but also let them do what they do, I don't think anyone takes them seriously though.
They’re probably doing that because it’s currently the 40 days for life campaign where they protest outside clinics essentially 24/7 for 40 days because I guess that’s going to save a bunch of babies in their eyes.
I think it’s abhorrent that funding was taken away from Planned Parenthood by the state to provide security, you think that with Governor Whitmer being such a advocate for reproductive rights that she would see about getting funding provided for such services
I grew up Hudsonville and my childhood home is literally within a 15 minute walking distance to at least 5 churches.
That being said, Jenison is just as bad, if not slightly worse in terms of religious bigotry, than Hudsonville, so I'd steer clear of that area as well.
I couldn't be more happy to not live there anymore.
I live in Hudsonville but I don't have kids. I don't go to church. Honestly never been asked. While there are a ton of Maga fu*ks here.. there are a lot that are not. There is a big push back against Moss and his idiot Ottawa impact cult. They went too far and too crazy for too many. My friends are all liberals and some of the few Republican friends I have are not Trump fans. More moderate and fiscally conservative than socially. But I'm also not from this area and moved here in 2000. Back then it was worse than it is now except for the die hard Trump cult freaks. Not saying this area is the place to go but we aren't all bad here.
Hudsonville here too! I'm a little worried for the future when my kid starts school, as we're not a religious family. I'm hoping by then we'll have made enough connections with like- minded people that it won't affect him too much.
Yeah ik that but there's a bunch that are I have a motorized bicycle that I ride around that area and I have to ride it on the sidewalk bc it's not that fast and isn't able to be street legal and the sidewalks are usually empty from what i see so i just ride there but ive had people jump infront of me to try and block me and it doesn't have great breaks so I almost hit them and I used to go to school there and most of the kids like to bully people and there's a fight like ever other day also the teachers don't do shit to the kids who bully I once kicked someone after they shoved me and threw my glasses and I got in the same amount of trouble as the person who pushed me for no reason also most of the kids have "rich" parents and like to bully kids for it also kids in the trailer park dont like to move for cars and scream randomly (like it sounds like they are dieing).
I understand the bullying but honestly it happens everywhere. I was bullied when I was a kid for being fat. Teachers didn't do anything then. I beat some a$$ and people started leaving me alone lol. But I'm also a female so I probably got away with more.. plus my parents backed me 1000% I'm definitely not rich and was bullied for that as well as a kid. Kids are just mean little AHs.
My point is it's worse and the kids there are so stupid that they will keep coming back even if you beat them up also I would get in trouble for stuff I didnt even do.
I lived in the South for 15 years as a teen and young adult, and it’s definitely worse there. I think in GR people are still entrenched enough in church culture that that’s where they build their friend groups, so as someone who’s not currently attending church I’m finding it harder to make friends, but otherwise it’s really live-and-let-live here. I can’t even imagine someone casually asking me where I go to church, whereas that happened/happens in the South all the time.
I agree with this. I am a fifth generation Louisianan and grew up in the south. People up here are much less likely to wear religion on their sleeve than in the deep south. I live in Kalamazoo, where you could argue is even less religious than GR, and in my 25 years here, I've been asked maybe two times regarding where I go to church. Obviously there are exceptions to this in both the GR metro area and the large southern cities.
Oh man, condolences. Met my wife in Louisiana before moving. She couldn't wait to leave home. Only thing the state excels in is crime/corrections & fried food. Lol.
Glad to have you up here I'm sure.
>I can’t even imagine someone casually asking me where I go to church
It was something that happened with decreasing frequency up until \~200x? Haven't been asked that in a couple of decades.
Not-all-that-religious white man here. 44 y.o. been in West MI since 2001.
As others have mentioned, it depends on where you live. I'd suggest looking at the demographics of Kent County (where GR is) and Ottawa County (immediately west of Kent - many GR suburbs are in Ottawa).
The further west you get, the less diverse (and seemingly more religiously affiliated) it becomes. For example, the vote in Kent County is usually pretty close to 50/50; whereas in Ottawa County the vote is consistent 70/30 in favor of Republicans.
While I can't speak to the experience of a non-white citizen, I might suggest you take a look at Kentwood, a suburb directly south of GR in Kent County. East Kentwood High School boasts some of the highest diversity scores in the entire nation (according to them), and graduated students from some 60 nations in 2019 (source: [https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/east-kentwoods-graduation-ceremony-showcases-its-diversity/69-5d10eef2-d1c9-468e-b219-fea2d151becc](https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/east-kentwoods-graduation-ceremony-showcases-its-diversity/69-5d10eef2-d1c9-468e-b219-fea2d151becc)).
Kentwood is easily one of the most diverse areas in the state, if not the entire nation. When I graduated in 14 it was the top 5 most diverse school districts in the nation. I don't know why people are using places like Zeeland as part of gr. I guess because you can ride the expressway, but gr proper(imo) is so accepting. Our biggest problem is accepting places like Billy's who has a known history of drugging people and being a open secret. That's why the Bob is always so packed.
I’m a Muslim. I’ve lived all over Southern California. Grand Rapids is by far the most diverse city I’ve ever lived, Kentwood, especially. Grand Rapids takes in a lot of refugees. Now, there are not a lot of Muslims here, but it’s a great city to live.
There's a lot of religion around but it's easy to forget because so many people lean liberal/atheist. You are definitely reminded if you try and go to a restaurant on Sunday though.
I think this is it in a nutshell. There are plenty of wingnuts, but I mean, I don't do the same things that they do or share their interests, so I don't really run into them much. My spouse was brought up Jewish and we're both atheists, and besides having occasional weird conversations with our neighbor where he urges me to contemplate the book of Revelation and/or child trafficking, it's never been an issue.
My biggest shock since moving here has been bibles sitting out at businesses everywhere. I find it unsettling. Where I’m from I can avoid running into Christian businesses entirely. A bit more challenging in GR
The city of Grand Rapids is pretty liberal and open minded as our Kentwood, Wyoming, and Cascade. In fact I coach soccer in the Ada/Cascade area and there are a lot of Muslim children who play and wear traditional head coverings, and I’ve never heard anybody say anything bad about it.
I would say there are some areas though, that are not so religiously tolerant. I would refrain from moving into a neighborhood in Byron Center, Granville, Jenison, or Rockford. Basically any area that has a high Republican concentration you can count on them, not being very religiously tolerant.
West of GR feels just like the south (Holland, Grand Haven, Zeeland)... I lived in NC for about 10 years (5 in Greenville, 3 in Wilmington). Grand Rapids Metro is pretty open minded, but the rural communities between GR and the Lakeshore are very tight knit, closed off to outsiders, very conservative, very religious, and pretty tribal. You'll definitely feel like you're back in the rural south culture wise there. GR itself tho is pretty liberal (especially downtown and Eastown).
There is diversity in Holland, and when I grew up there I was fortunate enough to have good Laos and Cambodian friend groups. Thier families were all super inviting and friendly. Unfortunately not a lot of black folks. But yeah we are talking high school. So outside of that yeah probably pretty clicky and divided.
GR itself is very welcoming to diversity IMO. LGBT, Black, Mexican and Latinex folks are common and accepted. (of course theres always work that needs to be done)
The problem is that every city around GR can be pretty intolerant. Sparta, Rockford, Ottawa county, Big Rapids, Ada, Cedar Springs, all have your typical Michigan "wanna be racist southern" intolerance.
Yeah like I said in my comment. We kind of self segregated, each area has their own people, but we all are generally accepting and look out for eachother. The least of our issues is religion if you ask me. Once you enter downtown you kind of have to accept people for who they are because the city has embraced being inclusive to each religion, ethnicity and creed by allowing anyone pretty much to have a event/festival etc.
True but I get the idea OP is going to be interacting with the homeowners. The students will be fine. The homeowners, oh man. The community isn't all cornfields any more and as it develops, keep in mind people have chosen that community for a reason.
Atheist , just moved to Ottawa County. Lots of churches, but from what I've experienced so far, religion really doesn't factor in to day to day interactions.
Alot of people don't get this. I moved to Ottawa about 10yrs ago and no ones ever given a rats ass if I mow on Sunday or stopped me to ask what church I go to.
I've had a church that's near my house give us cookies and free food truck vouchers as a sorry for the noise when they were remodeling a few years back. But just say thank you and move on, it's not an issue if you don't go out of your way to make it one.
This is the truth. Anyone saying anything else must have had an outlier experience, or is detached from reality and trying really hard to confirm their priors.
I have noticed an increase in street preachers with people who try to hand you junk, but I just usually decline and turn up my music when they're around.
I did get some odd looks from coworkers when they (gasp) found out I wasn't Christian. But they were pretty accepting of it after that initial shock. My children, however, have definitely received some bullying at the hands of Christian children at school. But kids are assholes, so meh.
It's not. Both the city of Grand Rapids and the greater Grand Rapids area are fantastically diverse in terms of religious and spiritual associations.
As for the actual Christians themselves, of course there's the shitty ones, but the majority of them seem, much like the rest of the population around here, to have a vested interest in actually being what Jesus told them to be: loving neighbors and nonjudgmental friends.
GR is fine, as is Kent County. I don’t think you’ll have any issues. If you start working your way west towards Ottawa County however, all bets are off.
There are churchies and their places of worship absolutely EVERYWHERE around west Michigan but I rarely hear of any problems. I get around to a lot of places on my sales route and people are largely tolerant. Or at least they carry themselves publicly in such a manner.
I've lived in GR almost ten years and have never been to church. It's never been an issue. Maybe if you lived in one of the church-ier suburbs (like maybe Jenison or Ada) it might be a little weird, but in general it's no problem whatsoever.
I don't feel particularly out of place as an atheist, but assume everyone around you is a Christian and don't be a militant edgy atheist asshole and you won't have issues. There are lots of open minded folks around here, but even many progressives around here are pretty religious. In my neighborhood, several people are religious enough to have their church be a visible part of their identity, but they are advocates for environmental causes like climate change and LGBTQ rights. One of my close friends is a minister, and she routinely officiates same sex and trans weddings.
Basically, be open minded to other folks' beliefs and you'll be fine. I'm openly atheist and have no issues. Many of my friends are Christian, I have Jewish coworkers, and I have plenty of gay and trans friends. There ARE a ton of assholes and transphobes, but that is the case everywhere. It's not unique and you will find plenty of accepting and open minded folks to drown them out.
The people in power in the area are pretty awful tho. GR has a ton of issues with segregation and some pretty dark past. The city is built with the money of a religious pyramid scheme. Their names are on all the major buildings downtown. It's getting better, but when you look in the closet there are tons of skeletons.
I agree with most of the other comments. Many old churches in the city have actually been torn down or converted to housing, meanwhile in the western burbs there's a bunch of mega churches. Nationwide people are less religious and church attendance is declining. I think a lot of people that were raised in religious households either reject the whole concept or just really don't care.
Depends on who you are. Institutionally yes, but interpersonally its as chill as you'd expect any Midwestern metro area to be
If you're homeless, the shelter requires you to attend church for a bed. At least they did until very recently. This means a lot of non Christians who are homeless choose to sleep on the streets instead
As a musician it was weird to get asked what church I played at on Sunday as a first question but I haven’t had any bad experiences regarding religious folk. On the contrary actually, there are a lot of open minded churches here and it’s definitely a “love as you want to be loved” experience here in GR proper. I understand it changes towards the lakeshore.
More than I'd like. It isn't a direct problem most of the time, but it bleeds into the city all over the place. Go downtown at night at you'll realize many of the people dressed up and going out are coming from the suburbs, then you'll realize you're surrounded by MAGA people who think there were dinosaurs on the arc...
That said, please move here and help make GR less west Michigan church culty.
Seconded. Or so their kids and neighbors tell me! Do some research and stay away from the town/neighborhoods with a high proportion of them. For example, Zeeland, Hudsonville, Holland. I'm not sure if there are known pockets in GR proper.
Latino and grew up in GR and I’ll echo a lot of what everyone is saying, it has become a much more inclusive and socially conscious place, but like all things, nothing is perfect and outrageous shit and injustices still happen. And it has taken the better half of 2 decades for real change to become visible and diversity to start taking hold. All in all it’s an okay place, where you can build community or be welcomed into one as long as they will. You’ll find the most intolerant and shitty people tend to stay in the Hudsonville/Georgetown/Jenison/Holland kind of areas.
It's not a churchy city. Those who are religious, regardless of their beliefs are quite respectful. Something I love about this city is how accepting we are about others. Each week there is a festival or event about a different group of people. Our churches wave LGBT flags for example. Don't worry about the church, if anything worry about Ronnie who is the guy that wears a leather jacket with spikes and in a thong half of the time if you are afraid of being offended(he's a cool guy btw!). We do tend to self segregate, but respect eachother.
Your biggest issue will be to be fake if you ask me. Accept who you are and you'll be accepted. If you don't want to deal with the homeless just say "no I don't have any cash" and keep walking. That was something my cousin who lived in Detroit has a hard time dealing with. Don't move to Grandville, Hudsonville if you don't want to deal with those looks, it depends on where you move to. Downtown is where everyone congregated but Kentwood had one of the most diverse classes in the country when I graduated in 14.
Grand Rapids is fine. I have lived in Grand Rapids twice and for a few years each time. My neighbors were friendly and I never received any judgement from anyone.
I grew up in Ottawa county, in Coopersville, in the 80's and 90's, and left at 18. I worked in Ottawa county from 2011-2019. Somehow the people became more judgmental. I was "taught" in school that people with darker skin and curly hair burned in hell (public school) in the 80's. People in 2019 were worse! I have so many terrible stories of things my coworkers said about minorities and poor people and non-Dutch people and even Tom Brady.
Grand Rapids is fine, Ottawa County is a backwater cesspool of hate.
Most of us don’t give two shits about your religious preferences.
The people on this sub shit on the more Christian areas of town for no reason other than their own hatred of people who are different.
GR is very much come as you are. What you see is what you get. It's one of the most friendly and laid back places I have ever lived. Like any place there will be @ssholes, but thats certainly the exception to the rule. We look forward to having you here!!
"Come as you are" I can't agree more! I don't view Zeeland as part of grand rapids. I'm not sure why everyone is considering that far west part of GR. 10 minutes anywhere on the expressways from downtown that's not connected isn't part of GR metro if you ask me. Idk who thinks grand haven is part of grand rapids metro but for whatever reason is officially considered gr metro. Rockford is a extreme case if you ask me. And I would argue that outside of Comstock you need to be careful, but it's not like the south.
Yeah Zeeland is not part of GR. Hell it’s in Ottawa County, it’s practically on top of Holland. I can see Jenison and Hudsonville areas being included although they’re also in Ottawa.
Yeah that's my thing. Jenison and Hudsonville are connected already to the city which is understandable. Of course gr has bigots and idiots, but overall I think it's such a amazing city, the amount of women who feel comfortable walking down the street with another girlfriend is amazing to me, because that is a horror story in so many other cities. I'm proud of that, I would rather have our own self segregated parts of the city because once we enter downtown proper we still treat eachother with respect.
Anyone who is 'afraid' of downtown, I ask you to just try to actually walk down there with two friends, not on division by the gas station, but down Monroe and look at how everyone just leaves you alone. The amount of friends I've randomly met because of how friendly and how genuinely happy people are is amazing. The religious freaks don't bother you, the homeless don't bother you, the creeps don't bother you(as long as you understand how to tell these people to leave you alone).
The outskirts if the city is not the same, but unless you choose to live in a place like Hudsonville, you'll see a Mexican festival and hear about Arabic gathering all the time. Plus we have chicago and Detroit in the same distance.
The craziest parts are getting used to people like ronnie(the guy in the leather and spiked jacket, wearing a thong) who isn't a threat. It's a amazing city.
I am Jewish and live downtown. Granted, I don't wear a yamaka or star of david or anything, but most of my friends and coworkers know I'm Jewish and I don't feel like an outsider. Of course, there are still usually events scheduled over Jewish holidays but no amount of DEI committees will change that lol
In the city yourself you are more than fine. It is like anywhere else.im this country the further you get from the city the more churchy and conservative you get. There are plenty of religious folk in the city, but as others have said they don't tend to be very outspoken. It was bad when I moved here 20 years ago, but every year it is becoming less so.
From a South Asian person, I have spoken to a lot of other nonwhite folks around the city and they all echo that it doesn't feel inclusive in terms of community because its the kind of town where relationships are built on the understanding of being white, Christian, or raised in Grand Rapids. People are a lot more accepting openly than in the South, but the Midwestern way is to be nice to your face and not as welcoming beyond the initial pleasantries. I don't mean to be negative but it's what I wish someone told me when I moved
As a non-white, non-evangelical resident of Ottawa County, if you are considering any of the suburbs surrounding GR, I would STRONGLY suggest that you opt for the ones in Kent County.
You will be fine where ever. I would avoid the western burbs that where some of the old guard CRC remain. You will find that overall we are very accepting of everyone. Be a decent human and you will be loved.
i was born and raised here and i can say i encounter religious types less and less in my daily life. Back in the 80s you go to the grocery store and you'd be lucky to not hear someone talking about :my church my church my church." Now its the outlier. Everyone I interact with is pretty secular. Also depends where you are. City of Grand Rapids and eastern suburbs are mostly liberal/secular. Western suburbs (which i barely go to to be honest) still lot of churchy types. I think they are mostly in grandville but I think even grandville has changed. The reilgious people continue to migrate further and further west into ottawa county. THis is all anecdotal but that seems to be what i've observerd.
I grew up in Rockford and just about every family was white, Republican and Christian or Catholic. There was obvious disdain for anyone who did not attend church on Sundays and for any other religion. E.G. I had a dozen different families of my friends try to “save” me by bringing me to church, because my family is Agnostic and that was not considered acceptable. This was in the early 2000s.
Maybe it’s gotten better in the last 15 years, but it seems the same every time I visit.
There are at least six or eight churches in a part of downtown called Heartside, and as far as I’m aware there’s only one synagogue and one mosque. In my personal experience it’s very religious, when we first moved here when i was 12 one of the first questions our next door neighbor asked my parents was what church we went to.
GR is much more diverse than the right wing asshats, white supremacists, and general pearl clutchers would like to accept and you’ll likely feel it is much better than the south.
A lot of this comes as part of a toxic lie called “West Michigan Nice.” It’s awful for moving anything forward because it’s basically an avoidance of anything challenging or uncomfortable. But with that comes the racists and religious zealots trying to be “nice” and just avoiding confronting you about being different, and instead keeping to their cliques and communicating with each other using assorted dog-whistle jargon, quietly.
As an import from the south I can tell you it’s WAY way better here. On all fronts. It’s not a place without its whackadoodle xenophobic morons, but they’re not nearly as celebrated as down south.
Moved here from Detroit. GR feels a LOT smaller culturally. You will run into churchy people at some point no matter where you are in the city. It’s still a mixed bag though so it’s likely you’ll find a community :) stay out of Hudsonville/Zeeland if you don’t blend in, I work in that area and I would 100% not recommend.
Never in my life have I had so many people come out with “where do you attend church” as an introductory conversation, like with neighbors while walking around the neighborhood. It’s horrible. “Pretty OK” answers are lies. It will always be how you’re labeled.
Where I grew up, religion was like genitalia. Most people have one but you certainly don’t take it out and wave it around in public nor is it acceptable to ask about someone else’s. Moving here was a very negative culture shock.
I have so many customers that are from different backgrounds. For the most part everyone is kind and accepting. I had a co-worker who wasn't but he lives outside of grand rapids. He is also retired.
Well I left Grand Rapids 40 years ago at age 2021? Live East Coast to West, throw in Minnesota and then the last 22 years in Texas. I have never ever in my life living all over have met as many atheists as I did and as friends while living there, LOL I just thought it was interesting.
It's like religion down south is thrown down their throats!
And I think as part of his revolting as one turns to being an adult, is to do away with religion and become agnostic or even mostly atheistic.
So being back here in Grand Rapids it's kind of a nice to see so many different religions, Catholic Protestant reformed, Dutch Christian, Buddhist, Hebrew, Seventh-day Adventist and the run of the mill big box crazy Suburban cash Mills!!
Being raised Catholic I really don't follow the church but I follow more spiritually.
Because as you get older you realize that Karma never forgets an address!!
Define "community" because if you're looking to join in a "community" not just looking for the demographics of the area which are pretty diverse, people that aren't from here and already know people struggle to find it.
How church is too churchy though really? I mean, I think if given the chance, 40% of the folks here would point someone out to burn as a witch. There's also a huge alcohol problem here. Also with alot of church people. We're trying to fix this with weed. But the alcohol addicts are resisting
I'm from Las Vegas, so in my perspective, it's pretty churchy, but at the same time I haven't encountered any overt disdain for my heathen (normal) lifestyle. It's changed rapidly, however, no pun intended. In my 14 years here, we've gone from not being able to buy alcohol on Sunday mornings to marijuana becoming legal, though I do not partake. Quite the transformation!
There’s a lot of churches everywhere in the city. But many of them fly the rainbow flag. Most folks are progressive Christians or progressive former Christians.
I've lived in 5 different cities around the US, in the New England area, the mid South, the Midwest and the West
I've seen the same general pattern across all regions:
About a 30-40 mile circumference around a major city's downtown area and city suburbs is pretty diverse and inclusive.
Outside of that, the population quickly transitions to majority religious, or bigots and/or ultra-conservatives.
Now are all people who live outside the city insular close and minded?
Absolutely not. Plenty of welcoming people out in the countryside.
And plenty of close minded bigoted people live within city limits.
But the probabilities are drastically different in and out of cities.
Grand Rapids hasn't bucked the pattern.
Stay in the city and you’re fine. I’ve lived in the city for almost 20 years, not religious, and have plenty of fellow not religious friends. Just don’t go to Jenison/Hudsonville….different story!
While there are pockets of ultra religious around it is getting less churchy. In my 31 yrs in the area (born and raised here) some of the older people make it their mission to bring up church a lot but typically millennials and gen x may ask if they are religious just to try to find a talking point or something but will not push it on you at least in my experience. I am a christian myself and have never tried to ask that or push my views upon others because that was the kind of shit that pushed me away in my late teens and early twenties all organized religions have their problems with pushing shit upon people and I feel it is better just to break bread with all that want to and just let other’s live their lives it is more about how we act as people than what religion or whatever we are. A lot of people have lost the fact that this is a melting pot of a nation and think it should just be judeochristian values or even other religions should start inserting their beliefs into laws but there is a reason for separation of church and state; laws should be impartial and avoid religious influence. As an area we have our problems but let me remind everyone that opinions are like assholes everyone has one and grand rapids is a great smaller city it is relatively safe, affordable, if you know where to look it is diverse. Heck Kentwood has a mosque. There is a jewish temple on michigan street close to the beltline. There are buddhist temples scattered around town (holland area, rockford/belmont, and south kent between cutlerville and wayland are three that stick out). The people that say we are just a christian area have never gotten out and tried to explore or they never look further than their neighborhood for any type of relationship building. It is hard to make friends here but it is doable you just have to find a group of like minded people or turning work friends to personal friends or find some hobby groups. Yes some people make religion their personality but not everyone does and if they are good people won’t hold that against you.
50 years ago yes u would be ostracized if u weren’t crc calvinist now? you may find pockets of it but less and less - being a gay who has a passing interest in buddhism i don’t see anything beyond a normal level of push - ppl here are generally friendly and just want to live their life
Jewish person here. I find that the diversity is pretty low but the people are open to learning and welcoming outsiders. This church community has brought refugees from all over the world. Helps a lot.
GR is heavily loaded with relatively local people with a conservative, evangelical background. The good news is people tend to want to be, and even think they are accepting, for example students from around Michigan come here thinking its pretty progressive of them, but there's often an odor of religiosity and I think natives are naive about their biases and closemindedness
Still I give people credit for trying and I don't think you would feel passive aggressively nudged out of here like you might in the South.
I live in Wyoming close to Grandville. There’s lots of different kinds of people. People might be curious but I don’t think you’d get ostracized. Personally, I’d be happy to have you as a neighbor. It’s hard for me to gauge what your experience would actually be though since I’m a white lady.
>I currently live in the south and people stare at me because I look visibly like I am from a different culture. I haven't felt this in other places that I've lived.
I think you'll get a weird mixtures of responses, because people are overlooking this part of your comment.
**If you look plausibly-christian** (i.e., look [vaguely WASP-y](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhiteAngloSaxonProtestant)) then you can live in Grand Rapids and be pretty "chill". People here do tend to be pretty religious, but also pretty passive-agressive about it. If you get close to folks, and they'll ask you about it, and you may need to deflect, but you can be other religions, as long as the hyper-religious folks around you can \~plausibly pretend\~ your Christian.
If you **don't** look that way, if you are obviously-visibly something else *(say, as an example, if you are visibly wearing Jewish/Muslim religious headwear in your daily life)* then yeah, your going to get some weird stares and a small-but-very-noticable part of the population is going to treat you differently. It will happen more in the suburbs than in the city, but you won't be immune from it in the city. (*Sorry. It's not right, it's not ethical, it's not OK... but it's not unusual either*)
I've lived here almost my entire life and let's say I'm over 40. Grand Rapids as a city is accepting for the most part and where it's not often has nothing to do with religion and more socio-economic stuff. The west suburbs are not GR but if you toss those in you'll hit some of the crap going on in Ottawa county. It's vastly more relaxed than it was when I was growing up, far more interested in other cultures.
If you're feeling stared at it'll probably just be your own thing. Ya some churchie people are weird but I don't think anyone actually cares if you're not.
Unless you're a furry and you omitted that. Then yes, you've earned the stare.
I would say a lot of people are mostly unreligious atheists, but for some reason, there seems to be a lot of Lutherans, too. And oddly enough, Buddhist/Sikh temples(i dont know exactlty what it is), I know there's one downtown.
Nobody cares what race or religion anybody is. In fact, statistically, this is the case throughout the USA. Main Stream Media, which has become an arm of the government, wants us to believe there is widespread division in order to control us.
White vs. Black; Gay vs Straight, man vs. Woman, it's all propagandist bullshit. Nobody cares. 99% of people have a "you do you" mentality. 😉
We have a decently diverse city. But like the top comment says, just avoid the burbs (granted there are plenty of good people there but it does feel more like the south or deep Midwest like Iowa). Come on over! I always thought I’d leave my hometown but then I moved out of the house and realized that GR is a pretty happening place.
50/50
If they are very religious, they are the biggest hypocrite
Or
They mind their own damn buisness
But thats pretty normal, right?
I lived in dallas for a couple years and had less issues with thumpers tho, but take that with a grain of salt.
The city of GR is pretty chill. Getting into the 'burbs is a different story, but the city itself is a very friendly place generally speaking. There are lots of Christian churches but there are a few synagogues and mosques, as well as Jewish and Muslim centers. I believe there are also a couple of Sikh temples. Beyond places of community and worship, I see people with turbans, yamakas, and hijaabs frequently around town and others don't seem to glance their way. Even if there were judgment, Midwestern politeness typically keeps people from being super assholes. The city itself has become a lot more progressive in recent years and seems to be more tolerant towards non-Christian faiths than when I first moved here a decade ago.
Midwestern politeness is being an asshole but pretending you’re not 🤣
The good ol' Dutch passive aggressiveness lol
Passive aggressiveness was to me as water is to a fish. I had no idea I was even in it. Thank gods I got out and learned (mostly) to be direct!
Yeah the amount of shit that I get for being blunt and to the point of being accused of being rude is just baffling to me. My mom was born and raised in New Jersey so I guess that rubbed off on me.
I don’t know what Dutch you’re interacting with, but we’re not passive aggressive. In fact, [we’re the exact opposite.](https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20180131-where-dutch-directness-comes-from)
The Dutch Reformed who populated West Michigan were not the Dutch typified by Amsterdam's culture."A division in the Reformed Church that pitted **conservative Calvinists** against **the increasingly liberal State Church** forced many Dutch to emigrate. At the same time, three clergymen organized colonies on the Midwestern frontier. In 1848 Father Theodore J. Van den Broek (1783-1851) established a Catholic community in Little Chute, near Green Bay, Wisconsin. Two conservative Reformed pastors, Albertus Van Raalte (1811-1876) and Hendrik P. Scholte (1805-1868) founded respectively, **Holland, Michigan (1847**) and Pella, Iowa (1847)." \~ *Countries and Their Cultures*
The ones who ran away from the Netherlands to America so they could be religious freaks and live in a completely different culture which that article isn't talking about at all
The Dutch religious here sure are. The ones who stayed there are very liberal if you’ve ever been there.
Can confirm.
West Michigan Dutch are wildly passive aggressive. It largely comes from a misunderstanding of what it means to be humble; many think speaking up/being direct is a self-centered action. You end up with a lot of emotional immaturity that way. Not all though! Many have learned, or are learning, and shouts out to the individuals in those families trying to be better.
I'm third-gen/fourth-gen Dutch born and raised in the SW Michigan area. My great-grandfather was a very direct Dutch man (as your article points out) and settled here in the 1910s. I wonder if, through the generations in the Midwest, they became less direct and more passive-aggressive, at least in my personal experience. My grandma is half-Dutch and half English so she may have been more tight-lipped and passive due to her English side. She is also of the Silent Generation. Interesting nonetheless!
It’s the combination of middle-class values, Christian reform churches, and not be connected to your Dutch roots in anyway possible.
This is so true!
That's "southern charm." Midwesterners I think take a more accepting stance, though I'm relatively new to GR and the midwest
Um both can be true? Michigan *is* the Texas of the north
Native Texan living here, up here is better. There’s not much in common between Texas and Michigan.
> I believe there are also a couple of Sikh temples. I think there's two. I know I've been to one of them and it's pretty far east of town. But IIRC, my Sikh buddy who took me there told me that there was another one as well.
There is one on Leonard just west of 96 :)
They are called gurwaras not temples. One is in cascade and the other on Leonard. Calvin used to have a great community program for folks interested in other faiths. It was super interesting and everyone was so welcoming. Little pockets of GR are intolerant. Not going to specify where. You will know when you are there. Skip the areas with no diversity. That shit is not an accident.
I think you meant Gurdwara ...unless you're referring to the famous musician Anuj Gurwara. But that would make even less sense in the context. And also I was quoting the person above me, and really I felt like correcting them as it felt pretty trivial relative to the point that I was trying to make: which is that there are places of worship for Sikh people in Grand Rapids.
My bad. You got the idea. My spell check won’t allow much!
I agree for the most part. I live on the very edge of the city limits and most of us are the live and let live type people and aren't assholes to each other.. there are a few people who feel its their job to stick their nose in other peoples business, complain about everything and swear they aren't bigots and play the midwest nice card to your face but then talk shit behind your back. These of the same people who think Trump had the election stolen and want to ban books, join school boards and city consoles just to push their radical views and cause all kinds of headaches. The more you get away from town out into the suburbs particularly west of GR it gets much worse.
In general, I wouldn't say you're likely to feel ostracized for not being Christian. There are definitely a lot of Jesusy folks in west Michigan (especially Ottawa county), but GR has a pretty diverse population, and I can't imagine it really being much of a barrier.
When I moved here in 2020 from Wisconsin, I hadn't noticed that big of a difference, other than the names being Dutch instead of German. Over the years I've noticed (especially in the areas outside of GR proper) the overt religious nature of some of the people. Not that it's bothered me, and that's not to say we're not religious in Wisconsin, very much so. But this def felt different in some way I couldn't put my finger on. Over the summer I started working at a restaurant in Ottawa County (literally right over the border from Kent) and it was like a completely different state. I've never seen so many people pray in public, or pray over me in a public setting. Again, it's not a bother to me, but I've never seen anything like it outside of the South. Really caught me off guard. What did start bothering me was the open racism, homophbia, and MAGA/Q speak from guests. Like they presumed as a cis, white, middle-aged male that I was all aboard the MAGA train. Seemed to get taken aback when I started to push back on the Faux News narrative. Glad to not be employed there anymore for that reason. It's not everyone there obviously, i meant some absolutely beautiful people in my time there. But the bluntness of it all from a relatively large portion of the clientele was staggering, and I grew up in Waukesha County Wisconsin (if you know, you know).
People in Wisconsin would act the same way if you took away the cheese curds and beer. I joke - or do I?
Don’t live in Ottawa county they’re a step away from complete religious fascism. You’ll be fine in the greater Grand Rapids area, people are very accepting. Our family & my kids have friends of all different backgrounds in our neighborhood/school & I’d say we’re in a predominantly white middle class area.
Grand Rapids is the hub of diversity for the entire west Michigan area, although that was not really the case 40 years ago.
It’s still not, there’s still a lot of racism and bigotry in marginalized spaces spaces like the pride center. They got a lot of flack for their lack of response or care for the BIPOC queer community. Also people got real quiet real quick a couple of months after the Patrick Lyoya situation happened, you think that if people really cared about black lives like all these signs around town they would demand accountability and justice from the city who continue to silence and arrest peaceful protesters for requesting such a thing.
The church freaks who protest the abortion clinic are hilarious though. We used to protest the protestors back in college and then go get gyros or poke bowls after. I don't think anyone is offended for those extremists, most understand they are extremists but also let them do what they do, I don't think anyone takes them seriously though.
What’s even stranger about them, is the abortion clinic has been closed for several weeks as the doctor died…and they are still protesting. Idiots.
They’re probably doing that because it’s currently the 40 days for life campaign where they protest outside clinics essentially 24/7 for 40 days because I guess that’s going to save a bunch of babies in their eyes. I think it’s abhorrent that funding was taken away from Planned Parenthood by the state to provide security, you think that with Governor Whitmer being such a advocate for reproductive rights that she would see about getting funding provided for such services
I would say stay away from hudsonville especially if you have kids bc i know people there that their kids get bullied and there's churches everywhere.
I grew up Hudsonville and my childhood home is literally within a 15 minute walking distance to at least 5 churches. That being said, Jenison is just as bad, if not slightly worse in terms of religious bigotry, than Hudsonville, so I'd steer clear of that area as well. I couldn't be more happy to not live there anymore.
🤣🤣🤣 isn't it known for having so many churches
I live in Hudsonville but I don't have kids. I don't go to church. Honestly never been asked. While there are a ton of Maga fu*ks here.. there are a lot that are not. There is a big push back against Moss and his idiot Ottawa impact cult. They went too far and too crazy for too many. My friends are all liberals and some of the few Republican friends I have are not Trump fans. More moderate and fiscally conservative than socially. But I'm also not from this area and moved here in 2000. Back then it was worse than it is now except for the die hard Trump cult freaks. Not saying this area is the place to go but we aren't all bad here.
That Moss has a very, very punchable face.
Hudsonville here too! I'm a little worried for the future when my kid starts school, as we're not a religious family. I'm hoping by then we'll have made enough connections with like- minded people that it won't affect him too much.
Tbh the schools suck a lot and quite a bit of the teachers are rude stupid or annoying
Yeah ik that but there's a bunch that are I have a motorized bicycle that I ride around that area and I have to ride it on the sidewalk bc it's not that fast and isn't able to be street legal and the sidewalks are usually empty from what i see so i just ride there but ive had people jump infront of me to try and block me and it doesn't have great breaks so I almost hit them and I used to go to school there and most of the kids like to bully people and there's a fight like ever other day also the teachers don't do shit to the kids who bully I once kicked someone after they shoved me and threw my glasses and I got in the same amount of trouble as the person who pushed me for no reason also most of the kids have "rich" parents and like to bully kids for it also kids in the trailer park dont like to move for cars and scream randomly (like it sounds like they are dieing).
I understand the bullying but honestly it happens everywhere. I was bullied when I was a kid for being fat. Teachers didn't do anything then. I beat some a$$ and people started leaving me alone lol. But I'm also a female so I probably got away with more.. plus my parents backed me 1000% I'm definitely not rich and was bullied for that as well as a kid. Kids are just mean little AHs.
My point is it's worse and the kids there are so stupid that they will keep coming back even if you beat them up also I would get in trouble for stuff I didnt even do.
I lived in the South for 15 years as a teen and young adult, and it’s definitely worse there. I think in GR people are still entrenched enough in church culture that that’s where they build their friend groups, so as someone who’s not currently attending church I’m finding it harder to make friends, but otherwise it’s really live-and-let-live here. I can’t even imagine someone casually asking me where I go to church, whereas that happened/happens in the South all the time.
I agree with this. I am a fifth generation Louisianan and grew up in the south. People up here are much less likely to wear religion on their sleeve than in the deep south. I live in Kalamazoo, where you could argue is even less religious than GR, and in my 25 years here, I've been asked maybe two times regarding where I go to church. Obviously there are exceptions to this in both the GR metro area and the large southern cities.
Oh man, condolences. Met my wife in Louisiana before moving. She couldn't wait to leave home. Only thing the state excels in is crime/corrections & fried food. Lol. Glad to have you up here I'm sure.
>I can’t even imagine someone casually asking me where I go to church It was something that happened with decreasing frequency up until \~200x? Haven't been asked that in a couple of decades.
Not-all-that-religious white man here. 44 y.o. been in West MI since 2001. As others have mentioned, it depends on where you live. I'd suggest looking at the demographics of Kent County (where GR is) and Ottawa County (immediately west of Kent - many GR suburbs are in Ottawa). The further west you get, the less diverse (and seemingly more religiously affiliated) it becomes. For example, the vote in Kent County is usually pretty close to 50/50; whereas in Ottawa County the vote is consistent 70/30 in favor of Republicans. While I can't speak to the experience of a non-white citizen, I might suggest you take a look at Kentwood, a suburb directly south of GR in Kent County. East Kentwood High School boasts some of the highest diversity scores in the entire nation (according to them), and graduated students from some 60 nations in 2019 (source: [https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/east-kentwoods-graduation-ceremony-showcases-its-diversity/69-5d10eef2-d1c9-468e-b219-fea2d151becc](https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/east-kentwoods-graduation-ceremony-showcases-its-diversity/69-5d10eef2-d1c9-468e-b219-fea2d151becc)).
Kentwood is easily one of the most diverse areas in the state, if not the entire nation. When I graduated in 14 it was the top 5 most diverse school districts in the nation. I don't know why people are using places like Zeeland as part of gr. I guess because you can ride the expressway, but gr proper(imo) is so accepting. Our biggest problem is accepting places like Billy's who has a known history of drugging people and being a open secret. That's why the Bob is always so packed.
I’ve got kids in Grandville schools. It seem relatively diverse and my son doesn’t get bullied here like he did in Allendale.
I’m a Muslim. I’ve lived all over Southern California. Grand Rapids is by far the most diverse city I’ve ever lived, Kentwood, especially. Grand Rapids takes in a lot of refugees. Now, there are not a lot of Muslims here, but it’s a great city to live.
If you do get looks, it’s probably more about racism, than religion, in my opinion
There's a lot of religion around but it's easy to forget because so many people lean liberal/atheist. You are definitely reminded if you try and go to a restaurant on Sunday though.
I think this is it in a nutshell. There are plenty of wingnuts, but I mean, I don't do the same things that they do or share their interests, so I don't really run into them much. My spouse was brought up Jewish and we're both atheists, and besides having occasional weird conversations with our neighbor where he urges me to contemplate the book of Revelation and/or child trafficking, it's never been an issue.
My biggest shock since moving here has been bibles sitting out at businesses everywhere. I find it unsettling. Where I’m from I can avoid running into Christian businesses entirely. A bit more challenging in GR
The city of Grand Rapids is pretty liberal and open minded as our Kentwood, Wyoming, and Cascade. In fact I coach soccer in the Ada/Cascade area and there are a lot of Muslim children who play and wear traditional head coverings, and I’ve never heard anybody say anything bad about it. I would say there are some areas though, that are not so religiously tolerant. I would refrain from moving into a neighborhood in Byron Center, Granville, Jenison, or Rockford. Basically any area that has a high Republican concentration you can count on them, not being very religiously tolerant.
West of GR feels just like the south (Holland, Grand Haven, Zeeland)... I lived in NC for about 10 years (5 in Greenville, 3 in Wilmington). Grand Rapids Metro is pretty open minded, but the rural communities between GR and the Lakeshore are very tight knit, closed off to outsiders, very conservative, very religious, and pretty tribal. You'll definitely feel like you're back in the rural south culture wise there. GR itself tho is pretty liberal (especially downtown and Eastown).
There is diversity in Holland, and when I grew up there I was fortunate enough to have good Laos and Cambodian friend groups. Thier families were all super inviting and friendly. Unfortunately not a lot of black folks. But yeah we are talking high school. So outside of that yeah probably pretty clicky and divided.
GR itself is very welcoming to diversity IMO. LGBT, Black, Mexican and Latinex folks are common and accepted. (of course theres always work that needs to be done) The problem is that every city around GR can be pretty intolerant. Sparta, Rockford, Ottawa county, Big Rapids, Ada, Cedar Springs, all have your typical Michigan "wanna be racist southern" intolerance.
Yeah like I said in my comment. We kind of self segregated, each area has their own people, but we all are generally accepting and look out for eachother. The least of our issues is religion if you ask me. Once you enter downtown you kind of have to accept people for who they are because the city has embraced being inclusive to each religion, ethnicity and creed by allowing anyone pretty much to have a event/festival etc.
Allendale on both racial and political scales. Probably religious, too.
Yeah they are a odd town simply because of gvsu though. Kind of skewers the demographics compared to Hudsonville for example.
True but I get the idea OP is going to be interacting with the homeowners. The students will be fine. The homeowners, oh man. The community isn't all cornfields any more and as it develops, keep in mind people have chosen that community for a reason.
Oooooof. :/
Accurate. Sadly.
Atheist , just moved to Ottawa County. Lots of churches, but from what I've experienced so far, religion really doesn't factor in to day to day interactions.
Alot of people don't get this. I moved to Ottawa about 10yrs ago and no ones ever given a rats ass if I mow on Sunday or stopped me to ask what church I go to. I've had a church that's near my house give us cookies and free food truck vouchers as a sorry for the noise when they were remodeling a few years back. But just say thank you and move on, it's not an issue if you don't go out of your way to make it one.
GR is overwhelming friendly. People don't really care what people believe
This is the truth. Anyone saying anything else must have had an outlier experience, or is detached from reality and trying really hard to confirm their priors.
I have noticed an increase in street preachers with people who try to hand you junk, but I just usually decline and turn up my music when they're around.
I did get some odd looks from coworkers when they (gasp) found out I wasn't Christian. But they were pretty accepting of it after that initial shock. My children, however, have definitely received some bullying at the hands of Christian children at school. But kids are assholes, so meh.
Different cultures are tight!
It's not. Both the city of Grand Rapids and the greater Grand Rapids area are fantastically diverse in terms of religious and spiritual associations. As for the actual Christians themselves, of course there's the shitty ones, but the majority of them seem, much like the rest of the population around here, to have a vested interest in actually being what Jesus told them to be: loving neighbors and nonjudgmental friends.
GR is fine, as is Kent County. I don’t think you’ll have any issues. If you start working your way west towards Ottawa County however, all bets are off. There are churchies and their places of worship absolutely EVERYWHERE around west Michigan but I rarely hear of any problems. I get around to a lot of places on my sales route and people are largely tolerant. Or at least they carry themselves publicly in such a manner.
I've lived in GR almost ten years and have never been to church. It's never been an issue. Maybe if you lived in one of the church-ier suburbs (like maybe Jenison or Ada) it might be a little weird, but in general it's no problem whatsoever.
Aka "West Michigan Nice"
I don't feel particularly out of place as an atheist, but assume everyone around you is a Christian and don't be a militant edgy atheist asshole and you won't have issues. There are lots of open minded folks around here, but even many progressives around here are pretty religious. In my neighborhood, several people are religious enough to have their church be a visible part of their identity, but they are advocates for environmental causes like climate change and LGBTQ rights. One of my close friends is a minister, and she routinely officiates same sex and trans weddings. Basically, be open minded to other folks' beliefs and you'll be fine. I'm openly atheist and have no issues. Many of my friends are Christian, I have Jewish coworkers, and I have plenty of gay and trans friends. There ARE a ton of assholes and transphobes, but that is the case everywhere. It's not unique and you will find plenty of accepting and open minded folks to drown them out. The people in power in the area are pretty awful tho. GR has a ton of issues with segregation and some pretty dark past. The city is built with the money of a religious pyramid scheme. Their names are on all the major buildings downtown. It's getting better, but when you look in the closet there are tons of skeletons.
I agree with most of the other comments. Many old churches in the city have actually been torn down or converted to housing, meanwhile in the western burbs there's a bunch of mega churches. Nationwide people are less religious and church attendance is declining. I think a lot of people that were raised in religious households either reject the whole concept or just really don't care.
Depends on who you are. Institutionally yes, but interpersonally its as chill as you'd expect any Midwestern metro area to be If you're homeless, the shelter requires you to attend church for a bed. At least they did until very recently. This means a lot of non Christians who are homeless choose to sleep on the streets instead
Mel Trotter did drop that practice a number of years ago.
Thank god
As a musician it was weird to get asked what church I played at on Sunday as a first question but I haven’t had any bad experiences regarding religious folk. On the contrary actually, there are a lot of open minded churches here and it’s definitely a “love as you want to be loved” experience here in GR proper. I understand it changes towards the lakeshore.
Badly. Also some employers will penalize non Christian workers who don’t at least pay lip service to their fundie tropes
Pretty churchy.
More than I'd like. It isn't a direct problem most of the time, but it bleeds into the city all over the place. Go downtown at night at you'll realize many of the people dressed up and going out are coming from the suburbs, then you'll realize you're surrounded by MAGA people who think there were dinosaurs on the arc... That said, please move here and help make GR less west Michigan church culty.
Michigan Dutch are terrible people.
Seconded. Or so their kids and neighbors tell me! Do some research and stay away from the town/neighborhoods with a high proportion of them. For example, Zeeland, Hudsonville, Holland. I'm not sure if there are known pockets in GR proper.
Touch grass.
[удалено]
😂
😱
Latino and grew up in GR and I’ll echo a lot of what everyone is saying, it has become a much more inclusive and socially conscious place, but like all things, nothing is perfect and outrageous shit and injustices still happen. And it has taken the better half of 2 decades for real change to become visible and diversity to start taking hold. All in all it’s an okay place, where you can build community or be welcomed into one as long as they will. You’ll find the most intolerant and shitty people tend to stay in the Hudsonville/Georgetown/Jenison/Holland kind of areas.
It's not a churchy city. Those who are religious, regardless of their beliefs are quite respectful. Something I love about this city is how accepting we are about others. Each week there is a festival or event about a different group of people. Our churches wave LGBT flags for example. Don't worry about the church, if anything worry about Ronnie who is the guy that wears a leather jacket with spikes and in a thong half of the time if you are afraid of being offended(he's a cool guy btw!). We do tend to self segregate, but respect eachother. Your biggest issue will be to be fake if you ask me. Accept who you are and you'll be accepted. If you don't want to deal with the homeless just say "no I don't have any cash" and keep walking. That was something my cousin who lived in Detroit has a hard time dealing with. Don't move to Grandville, Hudsonville if you don't want to deal with those looks, it depends on where you move to. Downtown is where everyone congregated but Kentwood had one of the most diverse classes in the country when I graduated in 14.
Grand Rapids is fine. I have lived in Grand Rapids twice and for a few years each time. My neighbors were friendly and I never received any judgement from anyone. I grew up in Ottawa county, in Coopersville, in the 80's and 90's, and left at 18. I worked in Ottawa county from 2011-2019. Somehow the people became more judgmental. I was "taught" in school that people with darker skin and curly hair burned in hell (public school) in the 80's. People in 2019 were worse! I have so many terrible stories of things my coworkers said about minorities and poor people and non-Dutch people and even Tom Brady. Grand Rapids is fine, Ottawa County is a backwater cesspool of hate.
Most of us don’t give two shits about your religious preferences. The people on this sub shit on the more Christian areas of town for no reason other than their own hatred of people who are different.
GR is very much come as you are. What you see is what you get. It's one of the most friendly and laid back places I have ever lived. Like any place there will be @ssholes, but thats certainly the exception to the rule. We look forward to having you here!!
"Come as you are" I can't agree more! I don't view Zeeland as part of grand rapids. I'm not sure why everyone is considering that far west part of GR. 10 minutes anywhere on the expressways from downtown that's not connected isn't part of GR metro if you ask me. Idk who thinks grand haven is part of grand rapids metro but for whatever reason is officially considered gr metro. Rockford is a extreme case if you ask me. And I would argue that outside of Comstock you need to be careful, but it's not like the south.
Yeah Zeeland is not part of GR. Hell it’s in Ottawa County, it’s practically on top of Holland. I can see Jenison and Hudsonville areas being included although they’re also in Ottawa.
Yeah that's my thing. Jenison and Hudsonville are connected already to the city which is understandable. Of course gr has bigots and idiots, but overall I think it's such a amazing city, the amount of women who feel comfortable walking down the street with another girlfriend is amazing to me, because that is a horror story in so many other cities. I'm proud of that, I would rather have our own self segregated parts of the city because once we enter downtown proper we still treat eachother with respect. Anyone who is 'afraid' of downtown, I ask you to just try to actually walk down there with two friends, not on division by the gas station, but down Monroe and look at how everyone just leaves you alone. The amount of friends I've randomly met because of how friendly and how genuinely happy people are is amazing. The religious freaks don't bother you, the homeless don't bother you, the creeps don't bother you(as long as you understand how to tell these people to leave you alone). The outskirts if the city is not the same, but unless you choose to live in a place like Hudsonville, you'll see a Mexican festival and hear about Arabic gathering all the time. Plus we have chicago and Detroit in the same distance. The craziest parts are getting used to people like ronnie(the guy in the leather and spiked jacket, wearing a thong) who isn't a threat. It's a amazing city.
Stay away from Ottawa County. Other than that you are safe from the crazies.
Actual GR, not too bad. Anywhere west of GR -- very churchy.
I am Jewish and live downtown. Granted, I don't wear a yamaka or star of david or anything, but most of my friends and coworkers know I'm Jewish and I don't feel like an outsider. Of course, there are still usually events scheduled over Jewish holidays but no amount of DEI committees will change that lol
In the city yourself you are more than fine. It is like anywhere else.im this country the further you get from the city the more churchy and conservative you get. There are plenty of religious folk in the city, but as others have said they don't tend to be very outspoken. It was bad when I moved here 20 years ago, but every year it is becoming less so.
It’s gotten a lot better over the years.
Me and most people I know in GR are not religious at all, the Christian’s I do know are typically chill and not too judgmental.
Within the city limits it's all "hate has no home here" yard signs, immediately beyond that is "Let's Go Brandon" yard signs
From a South Asian person, I have spoken to a lot of other nonwhite folks around the city and they all echo that it doesn't feel inclusive in terms of community because its the kind of town where relationships are built on the understanding of being white, Christian, or raised in Grand Rapids. People are a lot more accepting openly than in the South, but the Midwestern way is to be nice to your face and not as welcoming beyond the initial pleasantries. I don't mean to be negative but it's what I wish someone told me when I moved
As a non-white, non-evangelical resident of Ottawa County, if you are considering any of the suburbs surrounding GR, I would STRONGLY suggest that you opt for the ones in Kent County.
You will be fine where ever. I would avoid the western burbs that where some of the old guard CRC remain. You will find that overall we are very accepting of everyone. Be a decent human and you will be loved.
i was born and raised here and i can say i encounter religious types less and less in my daily life. Back in the 80s you go to the grocery store and you'd be lucky to not hear someone talking about :my church my church my church." Now its the outlier. Everyone I interact with is pretty secular. Also depends where you are. City of Grand Rapids and eastern suburbs are mostly liberal/secular. Western suburbs (which i barely go to to be honest) still lot of churchy types. I think they are mostly in grandville but I think even grandville has changed. The reilgious people continue to migrate further and further west into ottawa county. THis is all anecdotal but that seems to be what i've observerd.
I grew up in Rockford and just about every family was white, Republican and Christian or Catholic. There was obvious disdain for anyone who did not attend church on Sundays and for any other religion. E.G. I had a dozen different families of my friends try to “save” me by bringing me to church, because my family is Agnostic and that was not considered acceptable. This was in the early 2000s. Maybe it’s gotten better in the last 15 years, but it seems the same every time I visit.
There are at least six or eight churches in a part of downtown called Heartside, and as far as I’m aware there’s only one synagogue and one mosque. In my personal experience it’s very religious, when we first moved here when i was 12 one of the first questions our next door neighbor asked my parents was what church we went to.
GR is much more diverse than the right wing asshats, white supremacists, and general pearl clutchers would like to accept and you’ll likely feel it is much better than the south. A lot of this comes as part of a toxic lie called “West Michigan Nice.” It’s awful for moving anything forward because it’s basically an avoidance of anything challenging or uncomfortable. But with that comes the racists and religious zealots trying to be “nice” and just avoiding confronting you about being different, and instead keeping to their cliques and communicating with each other using assorted dog-whistle jargon, quietly. As an import from the south I can tell you it’s WAY way better here. On all fronts. It’s not a place without its whackadoodle xenophobic morons, but they’re not nearly as celebrated as down south.
Moved here from Detroit. GR feels a LOT smaller culturally. You will run into churchy people at some point no matter where you are in the city. It’s still a mixed bag though so it’s likely you’ll find a community :) stay out of Hudsonville/Zeeland if you don’t blend in, I work in that area and I would 100% not recommend.
Not at all, you'll be comfortable **in the city**; outside the city is a mixed bag, depends on where and when.
Never in my life have I had so many people come out with “where do you attend church” as an introductory conversation, like with neighbors while walking around the neighborhood. It’s horrible. “Pretty OK” answers are lies. It will always be how you’re labeled. Where I grew up, religion was like genitalia. Most people have one but you certainly don’t take it out and wave it around in public nor is it acceptable to ask about someone else’s. Moving here was a very negative culture shock.
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You should count again. Many of those churches have been turned into apartments.
Nah. GR and Kent county has trended blue last few years. I see BLM and trans flags all over.
IME the only people in recent time that have cared about my lack of religious affiliation are well into their 80’s. Stay away from boomers I guess.
I have so many customers that are from different backgrounds. For the most part everyone is kind and accepting. I had a co-worker who wasn't but he lives outside of grand rapids. He is also retired.
Well I left Grand Rapids 40 years ago at age 2021? Live East Coast to West, throw in Minnesota and then the last 22 years in Texas. I have never ever in my life living all over have met as many atheists as I did and as friends while living there, LOL I just thought it was interesting. It's like religion down south is thrown down their throats! And I think as part of his revolting as one turns to being an adult, is to do away with religion and become agnostic or even mostly atheistic. So being back here in Grand Rapids it's kind of a nice to see so many different religions, Catholic Protestant reformed, Dutch Christian, Buddhist, Hebrew, Seventh-day Adventist and the run of the mill big box crazy Suburban cash Mills!! Being raised Catholic I really don't follow the church but I follow more spiritually. Because as you get older you realize that Karma never forgets an address!!
Define "community" because if you're looking to join in a "community" not just looking for the demographics of the area which are pretty diverse, people that aren't from here and already know people struggle to find it.
Are you asking about diversity or religious beliefs? Not all Christians are white.
How church is too churchy though really? I mean, I think if given the chance, 40% of the folks here would point someone out to burn as a witch. There's also a huge alcohol problem here. Also with alot of church people. We're trying to fix this with weed. But the alcohol addicts are resisting
If you have to ask, you can’t afford it.
I'm from Las Vegas, so in my perspective, it's pretty churchy, but at the same time I haven't encountered any overt disdain for my heathen (normal) lifestyle. It's changed rapidly, however, no pun intended. In my 14 years here, we've gone from not being able to buy alcohol on Sunday mornings to marijuana becoming legal, though I do not partake. Quite the transformation!
There’s a lot of churches everywhere in the city. But many of them fly the rainbow flag. Most folks are progressive Christians or progressive former Christians.
I've lived in 5 different cities around the US, in the New England area, the mid South, the Midwest and the West I've seen the same general pattern across all regions: About a 30-40 mile circumference around a major city's downtown area and city suburbs is pretty diverse and inclusive. Outside of that, the population quickly transitions to majority religious, or bigots and/or ultra-conservatives. Now are all people who live outside the city insular close and minded? Absolutely not. Plenty of welcoming people out in the countryside. And plenty of close minded bigoted people live within city limits. But the probabilities are drastically different in and out of cities. Grand Rapids hasn't bucked the pattern.
Stay in the city and you’re fine. I’ve lived in the city for almost 20 years, not religious, and have plenty of fellow not religious friends. Just don’t go to Jenison/Hudsonville….different story!
GR proper is fine, but once you get to the burbs especially to the west, things get real Bible Belt
While there are pockets of ultra religious around it is getting less churchy. In my 31 yrs in the area (born and raised here) some of the older people make it their mission to bring up church a lot but typically millennials and gen x may ask if they are religious just to try to find a talking point or something but will not push it on you at least in my experience. I am a christian myself and have never tried to ask that or push my views upon others because that was the kind of shit that pushed me away in my late teens and early twenties all organized religions have their problems with pushing shit upon people and I feel it is better just to break bread with all that want to and just let other’s live their lives it is more about how we act as people than what religion or whatever we are. A lot of people have lost the fact that this is a melting pot of a nation and think it should just be judeochristian values or even other religions should start inserting their beliefs into laws but there is a reason for separation of church and state; laws should be impartial and avoid religious influence. As an area we have our problems but let me remind everyone that opinions are like assholes everyone has one and grand rapids is a great smaller city it is relatively safe, affordable, if you know where to look it is diverse. Heck Kentwood has a mosque. There is a jewish temple on michigan street close to the beltline. There are buddhist temples scattered around town (holland area, rockford/belmont, and south kent between cutlerville and wayland are three that stick out). The people that say we are just a christian area have never gotten out and tried to explore or they never look further than their neighborhood for any type of relationship building. It is hard to make friends here but it is doable you just have to find a group of like minded people or turning work friends to personal friends or find some hobby groups. Yes some people make religion their personality but not everyone does and if they are good people won’t hold that against you.
There's a church on every corner so ... .....
50 years ago yes u would be ostracized if u weren’t crc calvinist now? you may find pockets of it but less and less - being a gay who has a passing interest in buddhism i don’t see anything beyond a normal level of push - ppl here are generally friendly and just want to live their life
We’re pretty good! I’d say people are very accepting about LGBTQ
Jewish person here. I find that the diversity is pretty low but the people are open to learning and welcoming outsiders. This church community has brought refugees from all over the world. Helps a lot.
GR is heavily loaded with relatively local people with a conservative, evangelical background. The good news is people tend to want to be, and even think they are accepting, for example students from around Michigan come here thinking its pretty progressive of them, but there's often an odor of religiosity and I think natives are naive about their biases and closemindedness Still I give people credit for trying and I don't think you would feel passive aggressively nudged out of here like you might in the South.
I live in Wyoming close to Grandville. There’s lots of different kinds of people. People might be curious but I don’t think you’d get ostracized. Personally, I’d be happy to have you as a neighbor. It’s hard for me to gauge what your experience would actually be though since I’m a white lady.
>I currently live in the south and people stare at me because I look visibly like I am from a different culture. I haven't felt this in other places that I've lived. I think you'll get a weird mixtures of responses, because people are overlooking this part of your comment. **If you look plausibly-christian** (i.e., look [vaguely WASP-y](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhiteAngloSaxonProtestant)) then you can live in Grand Rapids and be pretty "chill". People here do tend to be pretty religious, but also pretty passive-agressive about it. If you get close to folks, and they'll ask you about it, and you may need to deflect, but you can be other religions, as long as the hyper-religious folks around you can \~plausibly pretend\~ your Christian. If you **don't** look that way, if you are obviously-visibly something else *(say, as an example, if you are visibly wearing Jewish/Muslim religious headwear in your daily life)* then yeah, your going to get some weird stares and a small-but-very-noticable part of the population is going to treat you differently. It will happen more in the suburbs than in the city, but you won't be immune from it in the city. (*Sorry. It's not right, it's not ethical, it's not OK... but it's not unusual either*)
I've lived here almost my entire life and let's say I'm over 40. Grand Rapids as a city is accepting for the most part and where it's not often has nothing to do with religion and more socio-economic stuff. The west suburbs are not GR but if you toss those in you'll hit some of the crap going on in Ottawa county. It's vastly more relaxed than it was when I was growing up, far more interested in other cultures.
If you're feeling stared at it'll probably just be your own thing. Ya some churchie people are weird but I don't think anyone actually cares if you're not. Unless you're a furry and you omitted that. Then yes, you've earned the stare.
I would say a lot of people are mostly unreligious atheists, but for some reason, there seems to be a lot of Lutherans, too. And oddly enough, Buddhist/Sikh temples(i dont know exactlty what it is), I know there's one downtown.
Nobody cares what race or religion anybody is. In fact, statistically, this is the case throughout the USA. Main Stream Media, which has become an arm of the government, wants us to believe there is widespread division in order to control us. White vs. Black; Gay vs Straight, man vs. Woman, it's all propagandist bullshit. Nobody cares. 99% of people have a "you do you" mentality. 😉
The whole state is churchy
We have a decently diverse city. But like the top comment says, just avoid the burbs (granted there are plenty of good people there but it does feel more like the south or deep Midwest like Iowa). Come on over! I always thought I’d leave my hometown but then I moved out of the house and realized that GR is a pretty happening place.
50/50 If they are very religious, they are the biggest hypocrite Or They mind their own damn buisness But thats pretty normal, right? I lived in dallas for a couple years and had less issues with thumpers tho, but take that with a grain of salt.