Gríma Wormtongue
Gríma means mask in Icelandic. I don’t know why he didn’t name him Ormstunga/Ormtunga instead of Wormtongue. Weird translating one name but not the other
I fully believe they had to kill Kiera Knightley in the second movie to make it explicitly clear that Natalie Portman was the real princess. They just didn't anticipate that level of confusion that subplot in the first movie created.
They looked exactly the same. So you only knew one of them was the fake, but otherwise knew nothing else. It was two clones telling each other, "pretend to be me."
Honestly, I am surprised that Tolkien chose such similar names for the two major antagonists. I heard somewhere that a writer shouldn't use names which even have the same first letter
Look I like Tolkien too but trying to argue this on an in universe level is dumb.
"Um actually Painmogh Torturogkh means 'respecter of consent' in ork language, so it's very subversive that he ended up being an evil torturer"
I mean, the same thing can said about real life. "what do you mean the guy named Hitler has a right hand man named Himmler?" or as of now "What do you mean that the enemy of Vladimir is a guy called Volodymir?".
If this was a story people would think these "coincidences" are dumb too. If anything it's realistic.
Tolkien was a linguist/world builder first and a writer second. The narrative is only a way for readers to explore the world he created, so the names make sense if you follow his priorities.
He often didn't make shit up out of thin air though but rather lifted words directly from old Anglo-Saxon or old german. Saruman is an old word that the Mercian Anglo-Saxons used that literally means man of skill.
I don't get what you are aiming at, because his name was Grima, and he was called by others Wormtongue. So to be clear, Wormtongue wasn't his surname, it was an insult from other people.
I think most people don’t know the actual story behind Saruman because they’ve only seen the LOTR movies and think that Saruman is just a stopgap secondary antagonist on the way to the big bad evil guy
In the actual story, Saruman was Gandalf’s friend and “boss “ and they are both sort of “angels” sent to Middle Earth precisely to stop Sauron from returning, who is by all intents and purposes a kind of biblical Lucifer by the way.
They had both been around as friends for a very long time before Saruman gets corrupted and joins Sauron.
Not to mention, in the actual story Saruman and Sauron aren’t actually allies. They are both antagonists and trying to get the Ring for themselves, but they’re not on the same side. Gimli even suggests the good guys sit out for a round to let Isengard and Mordor fight each other so they only have one to deal with, to which Gandalf replies that whoever won would just get way stronger and be more of an issue to deal with later.
This complain always annoys me, why would you make a connection between Saruman and Sauron, it's just a silly coincidence, and isn't even that big. Anon just like to mock peak fiction.
[удалено]
Grimy Wormtongue? You've allied with Grim Worm?
Who could have guessed that Alfrid Lickspittle would be a fawning sycophant?
Gríma Wormtongue Gríma means mask in Icelandic. I don’t know why he didn’t name him Ormstunga/Ormtunga instead of Wormtongue. Weird translating one name but not the other
Who would have thunk the guy named Lupin is a werewolf?
Who could have known all stinky orcs are big meanies!
As a kid watching these movies I was so confused by these names.
6 yo me being confused by the bearded Teacher Jedi being alive in Star Wars Episode 2, although he died in Phantom Menace
Lmao took me a few seconds to understand what you were talking about
I'm still confused
He thought qui gon was obi wan
I fully believe they had to kill Kiera Knightley in the second movie to make it explicitly clear that Natalie Portman was the real princess. They just didn't anticipate that level of confusion that subplot in the first movie created.
I'm still confused about that now.
They looked exactly the same. So you only knew one of them was the fake, but otherwise knew nothing else. It was two clones telling each other, "pretend to be me."
Lmfao I did not know Kiera Knightley played the decoy or whatever
Be ready to be confused again because that's not the same decoy from the Episode one.
And to think that people actually suggest the dumb Machete viewing order (4, 5, 2, 3, 6) for small kids as the way to introduce the movies
New viewers should start with 9, it'll always get better.
They’ll be confused about Palpatine returning… wait
Machete order is a terrible way to introduce anyone. It isn’t necessarily dumb though, it’s a fun way to arrange the movies for a subsequent viewing
I'm so glad I'm not alone on both of these. I was very confused by these
When I was very young I thought it was two different names for the same person and it was just supposed to be a “the characters don’t know” suspense
As a 3rd grader reading the books, I thought they were the same character like Ganon and Ganondorf
Honestly, I am surprised that Tolkien chose such similar names for the two major antagonists. I heard somewhere that a writer shouldn't use names which even have the same first letter
Westeros?! A continent in the west?!
Where’s Essos?
I think there is one a couple blocks down the road from me.
It's the road south of me. Sup neighbor.
Essos? I thought you said Wessos.
“Sauron it’s you!?!? You’re the Lord of the Rings!?!?!?”
He didn’t say that.
He definitely did, did you forget??
I’m sad more people didn’t get this reference
My all-time favourite greentext
Link?
Do ya one better https://preview.redd.it/wpzchl2g4zwc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be422fe977f9d134e82751d656e48568f4c80974
I love it when Frodo said “it’s lord of ringing time” then proceeded to ring all over the lavas in mount doom
Quite ingenious, if I do say so myself.
Need a name for a spider woman, old name for spider was "lob".... *Smokes pipe* Ah, i've got it.
No flippin way 😱
Saruman means "man of skill"
Look I like Tolkien too but trying to argue this on an in universe level is dumb. "Um actually Painmogh Torturogkh means 'respecter of consent' in ork language, so it's very subversive that he ended up being an evil torturer"
I mean, the same thing can said about real life. "what do you mean the guy named Hitler has a right hand man named Himmler?" or as of now "What do you mean that the enemy of Vladimir is a guy called Volodymir?". If this was a story people would think these "coincidences" are dumb too. If anything it's realistic.
Or that the guy who killed Hitler is conveniently also named Hitler. Stuff like that would be blasted in fiction as being unrealistic.
What do you mean that there was a war between two guys named George?
There can only be one.
Vladimir and Volodimir is the same name, just russsian and ukranian versions
so it’s the same inasmuch as ‘Michael’ and ‘Michel’ are the same, but you would call the one the other, so they’re different names…
Tbf they are both nicknames in universe. Neither of their "real" names are similar at all
That still doesn't help, he could have made them anything.
I agree, they sound dumb and don't make for a very good plot twist in the end
Tolkien was a linguist/world builder first and a writer second. The narrative is only a way for readers to explore the world he created, so the names make sense if you follow his priorities.
He often didn't make shit up out of thin air though but rather lifted words directly from old Anglo-Saxon or old german. Saruman is an old word that the Mercian Anglo-Saxons used that literally means man of skill.
I don't get what you are aiming at, because his name was Grima, and he was called by others Wormtongue. So to be clear, Wormtongue wasn't his surname, it was an insult from other people.
Quite the bamboozle I'm afraid.
THE ISTARI LONG CON
Saruman, digivolve to Mechasaruruman!
As Gandalf straps Hobbits to his appendages for the ultimate showdown
I think most people don’t know the actual story behind Saruman because they’ve only seen the LOTR movies and think that Saruman is just a stopgap secondary antagonist on the way to the big bad evil guy In the actual story, Saruman was Gandalf’s friend and “boss “ and they are both sort of “angels” sent to Middle Earth precisely to stop Sauron from returning, who is by all intents and purposes a kind of biblical Lucifer by the way. They had both been around as friends for a very long time before Saruman gets corrupted and joins Sauron.
Not to mention, in the actual story Saruman and Sauron aren’t actually allies. They are both antagonists and trying to get the Ring for themselves, but they’re not on the same side. Gimli even suggests the good guys sit out for a round to let Isengard and Mordor fight each other so they only have one to deal with, to which Gandalf replies that whoever won would just get way stronger and be more of an issue to deal with later.
How confused you think I was when I watched two towers before fellowship
Tolkien wrote some great stuff but jesus christ he could be confusing AF sometimes. LOTR would have benefitted from a top notch editor.
This complain always annoys me, why would you make a connection between Saruman and Sauron, it's just a silly coincidence, and isn't even that big. Anon just like to mock peak fiction.