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sepecx

Absolutely not normal. But assholes exist.


Odd_Shock421

Unfortunately as a foreigner this happens all the time. Once a week is normal depending how dark you are. The darker/more asian you look the more frequent. As a dude I can’t comment on how often misogyny/cat calling takes place in HH but from friends and family I’ve been told it’s daily. Thing is we tend to think our experience from our POV of the day to day is universal, when really it isn’t.


-Marinski-

Hmm that’s strange, one of my best is an Arab. He was born here but you can clearly see he has no German parents. Just asked him to confirm, he told me me that yes he has experienced racism but never something near what happened to op. Also most German aren’t racist.


Odd_Shock421

Yes and No. Here’s a small anecdote and a personal story that I’ve heard lots and directly, I don’t know how true it is but hey: When people with Indian parents who were born in Germany or the UK go to India they stick out like a sore thumb and often experience racism. This has happened to me in my home country too. I was born there and left when I was 18. I’ve lived in Germany for 20 years so obviously over time I’ve changed. Recently I was blocking a queue for car rental in the country I come from and a passer-by blurted out „f&@€ing Germans, no idea how to form a line“. Most of our communication is non verbal. The way you walk, how you dress, how you carry yourself etc etc IMO, and this is important, from an outside perspective, children of foreign parents in Germany are often more „German“ then the stereotypical white blonde dude called Christian. It’s not just genetics that identify a „foreigner“ as a such. Most Germans aren’t racist or xenophobic as long as you assimilate (integration is often said but it’s actually assimilation). One involves give and take, the other basically says get in line, do what we do and you’ll be fine. Foreigners who do German things at German times get on fine. Kaffee and Kuchen on a Sunday? no problem. Samosas and curry on a Sunday? Ahhh no thanks… Put your bin out a day earlier as a foreigner and as a German and wait for your doorbell to ring or the noise of a printer printing a Zettel. I know who will be first to be corrected. Try finding an apartment called Marcus Schmidt or Sanjeef Kumari, then you start to see the belly of the beast. Of course there are exceptions but this basic trend is very obvious. Also as I’ve pointed out many times in other threads although Germans are generally welcoming the far right is steadily on the rise. Some areas have 10% Afd others 30-40%. Many will be quick to say „the majority are still fine“ but that doesn’t actually wash. The afd is is an extreme right wing party and even 2% is too high. The power of their poison is so concentrated that at 10% it is very very dangerous for the progress that Germany has made as a country and democracy since the second world war. Most Germans aren’t racist but the ones that are excel at it. Most Americans aren’t loud but the ones who are, really are and in a restaurant you hear the 10% more than the 90%. Neighborhoods where the highest amounts of votes are given to afd and afd-light(cdu) are basically a lost cause if your from somewhere else. From experience.


armerkonrad

If you are black or Arab it’s really hard to get in bars in st Pauli


jalo1412

Wtf I have never heard that


Bollino313

Then you should listen more carefully


armerkonrad

Even in leftwing bar kogge, they said not more than 4 black men at once.


Honigbiene15

I live in Wellingsbüttel as an Ausländer, and yes this happens. Just had one incident at Ohlsdorf S/U-Bahnhof over the past weekend. I have been living in Hamburg for the past 10 years now and for some reason, that I cannot put my finger on, there is an uptick in such incidents over the past 2 years now. I used to think, they’re too random, but when I share such stories with my friends, who are also here as Ausländers, they agree that such stuff are happening too often nowadays. Thankfully, there are far too many good people around who make the society still a better place to live and work and pay taxes worth for, but when we extrapolate such increase in incidents over the next 10 years, it surely doesn’t paint a very liveable picture, in my opinion.


BigBonedTobi

Over the past two years everyone lost wealth substantially, due to increasing cost etc. People are frustrated and start to vent and blame "easy targets" which in most cases are foreigners. The right wing party AfD is at an all time high in many parts of Germany. So yes there is a noticeable tendency to a more right wing mindset overall. It´s not only Hamburg, it´s everywhere and tbh also in all other european countries. As a german I´m usually not the victim of racism but I noticed a massive increase in overall aggessiveness, unfriendlyness in all interactions in shops, streets, bars etc. ​ I hope this will turn around sometime soon but I doubt it.


Honigbiene15

This bears the ominous ring of truth, I am afraid as well. Combined with rising AfD, it seems plausible that we are at the beginning of slippery slope and the people with immigration background will have to face the heat again. I hope the situation might improve with improvement in real income and other economic indicators, but I won’t hold my breath. Might have to look for a greener pasture if situation worsens. Life is far more precious.


aschec

Can confirm. It’s definitely increasing sadly. During economic problems minorities are often the first to be targeted. I mean look at the polls for the AfD :/


Honigbiene15

True. I was just looking at the recent opinion-poll results. It’s terrifying and baffling at the same time. I don’t understand how people who didn’t vote for AfD for so many years can now find AfD acceptable!


aschec

It’s definitely getting more prominent in Germany again as well as the rest of Europe. Economic hardships are often sadly blamed on minorities etc. I myself am German but look more Southeastern European and experienced an uptick the last few years also. Our far-right party is also gaining in popularity so this seems to go hand in hand.


Odd_Shock421

Members of the AfD (current and previous) have freely and publicly admitted that they need a certain amount of educated racial minorities to do financially well. It makes the blame and “they’re taking your jobs and money” much easier to sell to people who possibly aren’t as well off as they used to be.


Fandango_Jones

You've met the residential asshole of that particular street.


Meinkoi94

I can only speculate on the frequency of this occuring but for what its worth: Poppenbüttel is a relatively affluent area with middle to upper class inhabitants and tends to have a fairly high amount of conservative people. Its probably more likely to experience racism in these areas where they live amongst themselves than in the inner city where its more diverse. Its shit that you had to experience that and I hope you have more positive experiences going forward from now on


StefanPianist1

Normally, racism in Hamburg appears more in the working class districts of Harburg and Bergedorf. Traditionally, right wing parties perform their best in these districts. The ”traditional“ affluent people of Hamburg have their wealth through trade and economy and are normally pretty open minded even if they may have ”conservative“ views in economic politics.


anaumann

But then again, what's normal these days with people from almost all political parties flinging shit at each other and not doing politics? Things are heating up considerably in this country..


Antimon3000

Bergedorf is a working class district?


StefanPianist1

I summarized both because they are one election district. Surely, Harburg is more a working class area. Especially Wilhelmsburg has a tradition of right wing election results (30 % for Schill-Partei in 2001.)


InformationJumpy9830

That’s 22 years ago. Maybe you should update your stats.


StefanPianist1

https://interaktiv.abendblatt.de/bundestagswahl-hamburg-2021-ergebnisse-wahlkarte/ Use this map. You will see that AfD is performing highly above the 5 % Hamburg average in Harburg and Bergedorf in 2021.


InformationJumpy9830

Yeah that are the stats 5% is different than 30%. Just saying maybe stats from over 20 years ago are not representing the actual political mindset. If you bring old stats to the table all german districts have right wing histories🤷🏼‍♂️


StefanPianist1

Well, I am just saying that these districts have always higher percentage of right wing voting. This goes back to the nineties with „DVU“ continues with Schill in in the 2000‘s and is still today like this with the AfD. It’s an interesting socio-demographic fact. This is not at all to offend anybody. It‘s just interesting because in this discussion people like to determine if there are areas in Hamburg with more prejudice. And right wing voting is definitely a good indication for that.


armerkonrad

I know harburg I look Arabic I never had any problems there, except with the police of harburg station


catm0m_

I've never experienced that before, but sometimes when I'm at a supermarket or drugstore, I notice a difference in how the cashier treats me compared to the white customers who were in line before me. It seems like they greet them with "hallo/moin", end with "schönen Tag noch," and sounding very friendly. But when it's my turn, I'm the only one who greets them, and they don't even respond. They simply state the amount of money I have to pay and tschüss


Other_Extension_161

Sadly, yes. At the trainstation Aumühle, someone called me a "dreckskanake". I was born in germany, so it doesnt matter really, some people just wake up and decide to be an disrespectful, ignorant piece of shit. (At this point there should be a law to punch these people til they bleed out im so sick of it all)


ClearestBlve

I’m Mexican, living here for 3yrs. I also live around the area, I’m on the darker side of the color wheel but I haven’t had any issues. I’ve lived in Wandsbek and now near Wellingsbüttel. Sorry that happened but just take a deep breath and don’t let it get to you. Life’s too short.


AdGlittering4907

That's because you're irrelevant and germans know that.


InformationJumpy9830

I Would say, normal yes, daily basis for a foreigner surely not but you will face that in every country from time to time if you look different than the mass of people. This is sad but not uncommon. This will probably never change the only thing to do in my opinion forget about it and have in mind that the most people have no problem with you or foreigners in general. Doesn’t solve the racism but maybe your feeling🤷🏼‍♂️


Dorkhette

I’m a woman from SE Asia, and been living in Hamburg for some time now (since 2020, in Altona). Openly hostile racism is rare, and I myself have only experienced the more subtle kind (ie clearly aggressive stares, usually from older white Germans). But I’d say I get these stares on a daily basis, and the stares get more aggressive when I am with my husband (who is white) or child (who looks like my husband). So with that, I think racism is not that rare in Hamburg.


mango-kokos

I am also from SE Asia with German spouse and small kid. Have lived in Altona area for many years, I personally find the neighbourhood to be very diverse and honestly have not had any weird stares at me or when I am with my family. Maybe the stares are more curiosity about you rather than aggressiveness (I hope! I like to give people the benefit of doubt).


Dorkhette

I’ve commented to another reply that I can tell that the stares are aggressive and not curious. Nevertheless, you’re lucky that you’ve had a generally positive experience. I don’t know where you’re from but I guess we SE Asians are quite diverse as well, but I’m from one of the (to quote Ali Wong) “jungle Asian”, and not “fancy Asian” countries, so might be why I get a certain kind of reaction.


mango-kokos

Sorry that you experienced that! :( Maybe I am oblivious to the aggressive stares sent my way (blissful ignorance lol). I had no clue what this Ali Wong quote is about until I googled it. I don’t think the average German actually could tell us apart very well, whether it’s fancy asian or jungle asian. Funny enough I feel like I get more aggressive stares and judgements in my home country for marrying a white person than I am judged here. Oh wells, we can never win, crazy people are everywhere!


mango-kokos

I am also from SE Asia with German spouse and small kid. Have lived in Altona area for many years, I personally find the neighbourhood to be very diverse and honestly have not had any weird stares at me or when I am with my family. Maybe the stares are more curiosity about you rather than aggressiveness (I hope! I like to give people the benefit of doubt).


StefanPianist1

Please consider that staring is a German cultural trait which is often discussed by people coming from abroad where eye contact is more rare. Also, women usually get more stares by men than men by men. And Asian women when they are young are indeed considered attractive by a lot of German men. So I invite you to think more of it in terms of cultural differences and curiosity and not so much in terms of racism, which is mostly not the cause of the staring. Especially, Altona is so diverse that most people here live with the normality of different cultures for decades.


Dorkhette

There’s a kind of stare which is obviously aggressive - eyebrows are tense, forehead wrinkled, eyes narrowed. This is the kind of stare that I mean when I say aggressive stare. Hamburg isn’t the first place outside my native country where I’ve resided, so I know if someone is just looking at me curiously or not.


InformationJumpy9830

Not gonna lie I look like that 90% of the time. But I can tell you that for sure sometimes it is what you have described and sometimes is just a person walking the streets and handle their daily struggle in the head. Not every stare has to be racism. But sure there are some of that.


Dorkhette

Yeah, a glance I don’t mind. It’s when a stranger stares me down for at least 5 seconds (and yeah, sometimes even longer, depending on how far away they were when they started) which makes me think that they’re not just curious about me. Eta: I agree that not everything is racist. But sometimes, it also is racism. Like the one time an old lady came up to me and said ching chong.


InformationJumpy9830

Yeah for sure that was racism. Just wanted to say not every person that have that look on their face like that have a problem with you. I probably look the same way but to me every people are fine. Doesn’t matter where they are from. To shorten this up sometimes it is but most of the time people are in their own world. And doesn’t think about the same thing as you are in the same moment.


mango-kokos

I am also from SE Asia with German spouse and small kid. Have lived in Altona area for many years, I personally find the neighbourhood to be very diverse and honestly have not had any weird stares at me or when I am with my family. Maybe the stares are more curiosity about you rather than aggressiveness (I hope! I like to give people the benefit of doubt).


Narrow_Newt_9613

You know in what street in poppbüttel? I grew up there, so i def wanna scold that mofo for being racist


Canthelppit

Heegbarg or Saselbergweg


Just-Pumpkin8424

Welcome to Germany, lol.


No-Ambassador7856

As much as Hamburg prides itself of being a city open to the world, huge parts of its population live an exclusively white, patriotic, often xenophobic lifestyle.


Odd_Shock421

This is right on the money. I recently had someone tell me with 10000% conviction: “ I can’t be xenophobic or racist, I lived in Coventry in England for six months” Uffff still waiting for the dust to settle on that one…


MaxWhax

That sounds like Russians, they be like I hate churkas and people from Caucasus but im not racist, my grandfather fought nazis. Nonwhite citizen of Russia.


No-Ambassador7856

Someone from Hamburg told you this?


[deleted]

Welcome to Germany :/ Encouraged by an increasing number of politicians who are attending the "conservative hardliner" course, racists feel once again safe to come out of their ratholes and openly spread their hate.


MentionHaunting2875

From experience I can say that racist exclamations are not normal for Hamburg. Racism is, but it is more subtle and softer, so this was an exception. Either way, is disgusting.


[deleted]

No man, it’s not. Lots of tourists and expats. But also drinkers


icrushallevil

Even I got told to go back to my country here I belong by a Nazi. Thing is I'm blonde and german - you can't have any better disguise against german racists than that and it still happened. Thing is, you're trying to find logic where there is none. Just move on - These aren't the droids you're looking for👍


SamSane

Sorry you had to experience this. To me this is a weird one especially the Arab community has a huge history in hh for trading spices etc for hundreds of years and I consider them very well integrated. Also the left wing is very strong in hh but assholes exist everywhere I guess. Sorry again hope you enjoyed your trip nonetheless.


[deleted]

Waiting for Germans coming to say that’s only an isolated case (#1.638.953) in 3, 2, 1 …


MisterT-88

I have lived here for more than 30 years and that has never happened to me


Virtual-Height3047

Plot twist: You’re a 30 year old caucasian male. And German. /s


Wellbeingchair

Ymmd


Canthelppit

Bad luck, I guess :(


MisterT-88

☹️


BugsyRoads

Not normal at all


DieserBene

This open and direct racism is very rare in Hamburg, but many POC have once made this unfortunate experience in their lifetime.


khan-1996

May I know where you are from or what you look like? Asian, Arabic?


Vondutcherone1

Not each right side is the right right side


Ok_Dentist_2097

Not true, here so many Ausländer.