Nothing feels worse than losing because they stole your cards
The fact is when priest is good, the game feels awful to play
When priest is bad, they are still the most annoying deck to face
I faced a priest yesterday and it was the worst experience ever!
I had bad opening cards and the bastard stole all my best cards in my deck :(
Whenever I drew a good card, he stole that one too!
Whelp, lol. Returned after idk 8 years of not playing and it was not a welcome surprise, lol.
So I've been playing on and off since launch and I can attest that Priest has never really been given a solid identity beyond "shutting down things".
People hate the Mage secret *Objection!* (and rightfully so I hate it as well) for being an uninteractive "No" card. Because Hearthstone, by design, is a reactive game built around player interaction.
* Mana pools aren't crazy deep like in Magic the Gathering, where (outside of fringe mana cheat cases) you can play 20 cards in one turn.
* Hearthstone uses a turn > turn > turn > turn structure instead of the turn > react > resolve > turn > react > resolve structure used in other card games like the aforementioned MtG or Legends of Runeterra.
* However unlike the other turn > turn structure card game, Yu-Gi-Oh, it also doesn't have 50,000,000 layers of card-interaction ***bullshit***.
This in turn makes Hearthstone a very unique but also delicate game, because there is no "mid-turn interaction" from the other player like in MTG or LoR (no Secrets don't count) where you can respond to threats or spells before they're resolved. You can't drop an *Eater of Secrets* to negate an *Objection!* for instance. But cards are also fairly one 'n done unlike Yu-Gi-Oh where a turn goes back and forth as different activations go off.
This means that uninteractivity is this game's kryptonite, and Priest, specifically Control Priest, is the KING of uninteractive gameplay. For instance Control Warrior, there's currently a couple fairly strong Control Warrior decks out there (one is technically a holdover from TITANS but still), Control Warrior is defined by using Taunt cards and generating Armor to get to the late game where their hard hitters come into play to finish the game.
Control Priest, on the flipside, is more or less defined by telling your opponent either "no", or "no u" through Silence effects and stealing cards. And nobody wants to play a game where it amounts to being told you aren't allowed to play your deck because the Priest either has an answer or will generate an answer because "fuck you because I said no" but despite having seemingly infinite answers has no actual finisher.
So it feels like you're sitting with someone who simultaneously doesn't want to play the game with you, but also doesn't want to end the game so the two of you can go home.
I completely agree with everything you're saying. However, I would argue that Death Knight and Warlock are a million times more frustrating to play against. These decks have the opposite problem that priest has, they have way too many win conditions. Against death knight, you can lose to plagues, the azerite rat, pit boss, infinite health pool, and Alexandros. Against warlock you lose to snake, Sargeras, Drathir, abyssal curses and sometimes even reverb. I tried running steam cleaner to beat death knight, I still lose, and probably have a lower win rate spending a turn to play a 5/5. Against warlock, I started to run double tram heist to get a copy of the snake and bouncer, still lose to Sargeras or some Drathir copy bs.
Yes, priest desperately needs a win condition, however, DK and warlock need to lose win conditions. I don't understand how they decided to give warlock of all classes the azerite snake. It should've gone to shaman or even hunter(it is a snake after all). Azerite rat could've gone to Demon Hunter(to push a big demon deck) or honestly you could just delete the scorpion and give it to rogue. Of course both rat or snake would've been good to give to priest. Even with snake, priest would probably still be tier 3 at best.
Oh I can 100% agree that DK and Warlock are on the other extreme of the spectrum where it feels like every other high-roll card they have ***is a win condition***.
Trim a bit of the fat off DK and Warlock, figure out what bloody drug stash Paladin got into when nobody was looking, and give Priest a win condition. Those would be my three priorities right now in regards to balancing.
The most hated priest archetype is control, and this is because its win condition is to bore you to death with pure removal and healing.
It's not like a warrior, which has Odyn as its wincon and can end the game much sooner.
The other priest win condition is to ruin your game plan, stealing cards from you with Theotar or silencing your dearhrattle combos with shard of the naaru for example. Or copy cards that you make the effort to carry in your deck with identity theft, for example a sargeras or any other powerful card.
It also generates a lot of value and discover a lot of cards, making it imposible to play around X card.
Those are a few of the many reasons why this class is so hated.
Control warrior has _traditionally_ played big endgame minions. That wasn't always the case.
Old Boomsday control warrior, for instance, didn't have a win condition. In fact, it played Archivost Elysiana and Baleful Banker to add _20_ cards to your deck to avoid fatigue.
Its either boring or down right infuriating to play aginst.
Having to sit there and get nowhere for 20 mins at a time just because they have an awnsered to everything you do yet they do almost nothing productive makes me wanna concede out of sheer boredom.
On the other hand when priest is strong like ressurect priest from a while back they have an answer to all your cards and you can do NOTHING about what they have.
You're damned if you do and damned if you dont against priest.
The real reason is that Priest has a lot of ways of generating value through discovering/stealing/copying cards (their own or your cards). It obviously feels super bad to lose to your own cards. The bigger gripe with Priest are the tens and thousands of board clears which they have access to - it's difficult to have a board of minions without having it removed every alternate turn. This is perhaps the reason why Priest is so hated - aggro players hate the class because they can't push face damage with minions, control players hate the class because it has no real challenge for resource management now. You can remove the board every turn without failure and without needing to think twice before casting a spell.
Priest deperately needs a win condition which isn't "make the opponent get tired of removals and quit".
Actually I have no issues playing against control priest as aggro. It's over one way or the other quickly. It's more when I'm playing mid or control because it takes priest so damn long to get into a winning position that you can easily spend 30 minutes before you realise you no longer have enough win cons to win and will probably lose to fatigue. That's when you feel trapped into wasting time. I go through phases of auto-conceding v control priest just to save myself the aggravation
Seen Feno do this plenty times without even blinking. As a top streamer he probably realises no one wants to watch that shit
Wasn't aware of that incident, however during Titans he was conceding to all control priests, not just one player. Soon as they didn't show shadow priest, concede
Honestly I've disliked going against priests most of the time since like Knights of the Frozen Throne. Their particular flavor of control is just annoying to me. Deleting your minions and all copies with Whirlpool, gigantic taunt minions with Boon of the Ascended, destroy your minions as a deathrattle like on Obsidian Statue or Convincing Infiltrator, mass silence with Shard of the Naaru, their ability to heal themselves to full over and over, and their seemingly endless discover and card generation with cards like Palm Reading and Renew and Shadow Visions and Sister Svalna. It's always such a high friction match in a way that is a bit more annoying than playing against control warriors (though control warlock has been pretty terrible to go against at times to like with Bloodreaver Gul'dan).
1. control priest 2. control warrior 3. control warlock
that’s how i would rank them. priest is the most generically control because it just always has the most raw value and resource generation.
warrior is more survival oriented and warlocks tend to have more aggressive control decks. i’ve never been a fan of warlock’s whole “anti-control control” thing.
and honestly unless i myself am also playing a control priest, i love playing against control priests. i think a lot of hearthstone players play the game to feel good and quick, not to think, and so they get frustrated when the opponent has a gameplan slower than them
Honestly I personally disagree.
I love control decks and it's always my main archetype in any card game. I like long crunchy games where it feels like everything is in careful equilibrium until it all crescendos into high stakes plays.
Control Priest... doesn't scratch that itch for me, yeah it's long, yeah it's crunchy, but that ***crescendo*** never comes. It feels like a chess game where instead of beating my opponent through careful positioning and gambits, I dragged the game out as long as possible and now just happen to have five queens on the board. Priest needs that good *finishing* move, that last triumph, that card where you draw it and it invokes [this feeling from the old short from a while back](https://youtu.be/h4XiNRMp5rg?t=70).
But I do agree Warlock's "anti-control control" feels weird and janky at the best of times.
People don't like having their own cards used against them. Especially with something like identify theft, it can feel like you're being punished for drawing your good cards.
Control Priest is also usually pretty horrendous to face as they usually don't run any win conditions and dedicate most of their deck to clearing your board and hoping to win in fatigue. This creates really long and boring games with no meaningful interactions and most people just concede out of boredom rather than from actually losing.
Resurrect Priest as you mention also used to be mind numbingly awful for similar reasons.
There has been some fun and interesting Priest decks like Shadow and Naga but they're not what most Priest fans seem to want to play and those decks always end up being nerfed anyway.
Its not about losing. Losing to someone who plays the game is fine, may the best win.
Priests doesn't want to play. Witness this by simply not doing anything, neither will they then. If you never played a card, they'd never play one themselves, and win because they have 40 cards and 35 health.
I am willing to accept that this might be fun for a priest player, perhaps that's why they're using the priest class. Getting satisfaction from being a spielverderber, or perhaps feeling they're special by not stooping to play the game, but just being the one that decides what is to happen.
Imagine you show up for an amazing event where you can get whatever you want in the world, but there's a catch, there will be another person with you and they have to agree to whatever you ask for. Now imagine that no matter what you say or do this person will never agree with you and even if you convince them on anything at all the effort, and stress it took to get that far out ways the prize. That's the feeling of playing priest when it's good.
Once I back in TITANS I was playing odyn control warrior and against control priest. I played literally every single one of my armor gain and my removal but the priest kept healing out of range until I literally ran out of cards. It absolutely crushed my soul. I literally never touched the deck after that, I still remember that moment vividly.
That being said I main control priest now :D
Being a control priest player, I think odyn warrior can actually win control priest matchup by trying to brust 40 dmg from ignis 1 mana wind furry weapon unless priest got the armor gain one or disrupted them. However idk why every odyn warrior I met often picked 10 mana one, and instantly being ETC vipered
I 100% agree, the matchup is definitely favored to odyn. But one life hack I learnt as control priest is that if you get ignis and pick the 10 mana lifesteal 8 armor weapon you will literally outheal the warrior’s damage output, and for some reason no control warrior deck has ever run viper
That's the thing. Priest games are the only actually interesting games that aren't just over by turn 6, unless the Priest is playing aggro themselves. If you're just playing to grind out mindless aggro wins and not actually enjoying the process of making decisions, what's the point?
I used to main priest and still play control priest every so often too and tbh it's me being mindless and not aggro. I just need to stay alive and press board clear every turn. Aggro needs to keep track of my removal and not over extend. The game is thus required to take longer than usual because they need to bait out key cards like Shard of the Naaru without overextending. The mirror is pretty brain-dead too. You just sit there, let it go to fatigue, and don't play any minions so that the opponent can't heal from it from cannibalize or steal it after they play Svalna and generate drowns. You do that for 1 hour straight until you reach the tie game. I've had that happen twice and I've auto conceded in the mirror ever since. There really isn't much of a decision making process. If your style of enjoyment is challenging yourself and making decisions, try something else like Nature Shaman or Enrage Warrior. Those mirrors are a lot more interesting too.
Oh I also just had a pally assume I had clear the scene and played around it. He had a buffed salesman by Deputization Aura, and instead of trading it with my minion, he went face and the aura wore off, leaving me with no plays where I could trade my minion (Faelin) and activate clear the scene, meanwhile he grew some earthens. That was pretty big brain of them.
(I was playing Faelin because I was fiddling around with a meme priest deck revolving around Faelin + Cattle Rustler + Thunderbringer. Cattle Rustler works well with Faelin and Blackwater Behemoth, and so does Thunderbringer. Too slow though.)
For me I personally hate the infinite discovers, bull shit cheap board clears like the light burns, from the long game. But mage does this much better and has an otk at the end of it, so I hate mage much more, and I think priest is weak right now.
Nothing feels worse than losing because they stole your cards The fact is when priest is good, the game feels awful to play When priest is bad, they are still the most annoying deck to face
I faced a priest yesterday and it was the worst experience ever! I had bad opening cards and the bastard stole all my best cards in my deck :( Whenever I drew a good card, he stole that one too! Whelp, lol. Returned after idk 8 years of not playing and it was not a welcome surprise, lol.
Is it better to lose against paladin shit shennanigans or random lucky priest
also that long time priest players aren't happy cause their decks are never good just exists to make the game worse for everyone
So I've been playing on and off since launch and I can attest that Priest has never really been given a solid identity beyond "shutting down things". People hate the Mage secret *Objection!* (and rightfully so I hate it as well) for being an uninteractive "No" card. Because Hearthstone, by design, is a reactive game built around player interaction. * Mana pools aren't crazy deep like in Magic the Gathering, where (outside of fringe mana cheat cases) you can play 20 cards in one turn. * Hearthstone uses a turn > turn > turn > turn structure instead of the turn > react > resolve > turn > react > resolve structure used in other card games like the aforementioned MtG or Legends of Runeterra. * However unlike the other turn > turn structure card game, Yu-Gi-Oh, it also doesn't have 50,000,000 layers of card-interaction ***bullshit***. This in turn makes Hearthstone a very unique but also delicate game, because there is no "mid-turn interaction" from the other player like in MTG or LoR (no Secrets don't count) where you can respond to threats or spells before they're resolved. You can't drop an *Eater of Secrets* to negate an *Objection!* for instance. But cards are also fairly one 'n done unlike Yu-Gi-Oh where a turn goes back and forth as different activations go off. This means that uninteractivity is this game's kryptonite, and Priest, specifically Control Priest, is the KING of uninteractive gameplay. For instance Control Warrior, there's currently a couple fairly strong Control Warrior decks out there (one is technically a holdover from TITANS but still), Control Warrior is defined by using Taunt cards and generating Armor to get to the late game where their hard hitters come into play to finish the game. Control Priest, on the flipside, is more or less defined by telling your opponent either "no", or "no u" through Silence effects and stealing cards. And nobody wants to play a game where it amounts to being told you aren't allowed to play your deck because the Priest either has an answer or will generate an answer because "fuck you because I said no" but despite having seemingly infinite answers has no actual finisher. So it feels like you're sitting with someone who simultaneously doesn't want to play the game with you, but also doesn't want to end the game so the two of you can go home.
That last sentence is probably the best way I have seen someone describe control priest
I completely agree with everything you're saying. However, I would argue that Death Knight and Warlock are a million times more frustrating to play against. These decks have the opposite problem that priest has, they have way too many win conditions. Against death knight, you can lose to plagues, the azerite rat, pit boss, infinite health pool, and Alexandros. Against warlock you lose to snake, Sargeras, Drathir, abyssal curses and sometimes even reverb. I tried running steam cleaner to beat death knight, I still lose, and probably have a lower win rate spending a turn to play a 5/5. Against warlock, I started to run double tram heist to get a copy of the snake and bouncer, still lose to Sargeras or some Drathir copy bs. Yes, priest desperately needs a win condition, however, DK and warlock need to lose win conditions. I don't understand how they decided to give warlock of all classes the azerite snake. It should've gone to shaman or even hunter(it is a snake after all). Azerite rat could've gone to Demon Hunter(to push a big demon deck) or honestly you could just delete the scorpion and give it to rogue. Of course both rat or snake would've been good to give to priest. Even with snake, priest would probably still be tier 3 at best.
Oh I can 100% agree that DK and Warlock are on the other extreme of the spectrum where it feels like every other high-roll card they have ***is a win condition***. Trim a bit of the fat off DK and Warlock, figure out what bloody drug stash Paladin got into when nobody was looking, and give Priest a win condition. Those would be my three priorities right now in regards to balancing.
This is the best answer I could possibly think of.
They should make a 8 mana 8/8 for priest that gives your hero attack equal to the amount you overheal for the rest of the game.
The most hated priest archetype is control, and this is because its win condition is to bore you to death with pure removal and healing. It's not like a warrior, which has Odyn as its wincon and can end the game much sooner. The other priest win condition is to ruin your game plan, stealing cards from you with Theotar or silencing your dearhrattle combos with shard of the naaru for example. Or copy cards that you make the effort to carry in your deck with identity theft, for example a sargeras or any other powerful card. It also generates a lot of value and discover a lot of cards, making it imposible to play around X card. Those are a few of the many reasons why this class is so hated.
Even without Odyn, control worrior has always been playing big endgame minions that can finish the game. Bring like Prophet Velen to core
Control warrior has _traditionally_ played big endgame minions. That wasn't always the case. Old Boomsday control warrior, for instance, didn't have a win condition. In fact, it played Archivost Elysiana and Baleful Banker to add _20_ cards to your deck to avoid fatigue.
True meant most of the time
Prophet Velen + Shadowtouched Kvaldir + double Flash Heal for 20 damage would be an interesting way for Priest to get lethal.
Its either boring or down right infuriating to play aginst. Having to sit there and get nowhere for 20 mins at a time just because they have an awnsered to everything you do yet they do almost nothing productive makes me wanna concede out of sheer boredom. On the other hand when priest is strong like ressurect priest from a while back they have an answer to all your cards and you can do NOTHING about what they have. You're damned if you do and damned if you dont against priest.
If I can't rush priests down, I /quit. Thankfully I don't care about rank. Is that how priests rank, by relying on their opponens leaving the game? ;)
The real reason is that Priest has a lot of ways of generating value through discovering/stealing/copying cards (their own or your cards). It obviously feels super bad to lose to your own cards. The bigger gripe with Priest are the tens and thousands of board clears which they have access to - it's difficult to have a board of minions without having it removed every alternate turn. This is perhaps the reason why Priest is so hated - aggro players hate the class because they can't push face damage with minions, control players hate the class because it has no real challenge for resource management now. You can remove the board every turn without failure and without needing to think twice before casting a spell. Priest deperately needs a win condition which isn't "make the opponent get tired of removals and quit".
Because aggro decks refuse to concede and are "trapped" in a 15 minute game they lost 12 minutes ago
Actually I have no issues playing against control priest as aggro. It's over one way or the other quickly. It's more when I'm playing mid or control because it takes priest so damn long to get into a winning position that you can easily spend 30 minutes before you realise you no longer have enough win cons to win and will probably lose to fatigue. That's when you feel trapped into wasting time. I go through phases of auto-conceding v control priest just to save myself the aggravation Seen Feno do this plenty times without even blinking. As a top streamer he probably realises no one wants to watch that shit
there's a guy stream sniping feno with c priest that's why u see him concede a lot.
Wasn't aware of that incident, however during Titans he was conceding to all control priests, not just one player. Soon as they didn't show shadow priest, concede
u are not wrong, he does that. I was just trying to explain why he insta concedes "plenty times".
Hehe I play hard removal 5 turns in a row hehe
Their schtick is games that last 28 mins because they discovered 1700 cards in one game.
Honestly I've disliked going against priests most of the time since like Knights of the Frozen Throne. Their particular flavor of control is just annoying to me. Deleting your minions and all copies with Whirlpool, gigantic taunt minions with Boon of the Ascended, destroy your minions as a deathrattle like on Obsidian Statue or Convincing Infiltrator, mass silence with Shard of the Naaru, their ability to heal themselves to full over and over, and their seemingly endless discover and card generation with cards like Palm Reading and Renew and Shadow Visions and Sister Svalna. It's always such a high friction match in a way that is a bit more annoying than playing against control warriors (though control warlock has been pretty terrible to go against at times to like with Bloodreaver Gul'dan).
1. control priest 2. control warrior 3. control warlock that’s how i would rank them. priest is the most generically control because it just always has the most raw value and resource generation. warrior is more survival oriented and warlocks tend to have more aggressive control decks. i’ve never been a fan of warlock’s whole “anti-control control” thing. and honestly unless i myself am also playing a control priest, i love playing against control priests. i think a lot of hearthstone players play the game to feel good and quick, not to think, and so they get frustrated when the opponent has a gameplan slower than them
Honestly I personally disagree. I love control decks and it's always my main archetype in any card game. I like long crunchy games where it feels like everything is in careful equilibrium until it all crescendos into high stakes plays. Control Priest... doesn't scratch that itch for me, yeah it's long, yeah it's crunchy, but that ***crescendo*** never comes. It feels like a chess game where instead of beating my opponent through careful positioning and gambits, I dragged the game out as long as possible and now just happen to have five queens on the board. Priest needs that good *finishing* move, that last triumph, that card where you draw it and it invokes [this feeling from the old short from a while back](https://youtu.be/h4XiNRMp5rg?t=70). But I do agree Warlock's "anti-control control" feels weird and janky at the best of times.
Wrong season, traveller. This one is for pala hate only.
Hating priest is timeless though
u can always spare some time to hate priest
Because blizzard doesn’t print an endgame for priest other than outlasting the opponent
People don't like having their own cards used against them. Especially with something like identify theft, it can feel like you're being punished for drawing your good cards. Control Priest is also usually pretty horrendous to face as they usually don't run any win conditions and dedicate most of their deck to clearing your board and hoping to win in fatigue. This creates really long and boring games with no meaningful interactions and most people just concede out of boredom rather than from actually losing. Resurrect Priest as you mention also used to be mind numbingly awful for similar reasons. There has been some fun and interesting Priest decks like Shadow and Naga but they're not what most Priest fans seem to want to play and those decks always end up being nerfed anyway.
Its not about losing. Losing to someone who plays the game is fine, may the best win. Priests doesn't want to play. Witness this by simply not doing anything, neither will they then. If you never played a card, they'd never play one themselves, and win because they have 40 cards and 35 health. I am willing to accept that this might be fun for a priest player, perhaps that's why they're using the priest class. Getting satisfaction from being a spielverderber, or perhaps feeling they're special by not stooping to play the game, but just being the one that decides what is to happen.
Play enough hearthstone and you will find out
Imagine you show up for an amazing event where you can get whatever you want in the world, but there's a catch, there will be another person with you and they have to agree to whatever you ask for. Now imagine that no matter what you say or do this person will never agree with you and even if you convince them on anything at all the effort, and stress it took to get that far out ways the prize. That's the feeling of playing priest when it's good.
Once I back in TITANS I was playing odyn control warrior and against control priest. I played literally every single one of my armor gain and my removal but the priest kept healing out of range until I literally ran out of cards. It absolutely crushed my soul. I literally never touched the deck after that, I still remember that moment vividly. That being said I main control priest now :D
Being a control priest player, I think odyn warrior can actually win control priest matchup by trying to brust 40 dmg from ignis 1 mana wind furry weapon unless priest got the armor gain one or disrupted them. However idk why every odyn warrior I met often picked 10 mana one, and instantly being ETC vipered
I 100% agree, the matchup is definitely favored to odyn. But one life hack I learnt as control priest is that if you get ignis and pick the 10 mana lifesteal 8 armor weapon you will literally outheal the warrior’s damage output, and for some reason no control warrior deck has ever run viper
Lol based. If you can't beat em, join em :D
They’re fucking thieves Looooooooooooong and boring
idk but i rather lose to priest than any paladin deck rn
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That's the thing. Priest games are the only actually interesting games that aren't just over by turn 6, unless the Priest is playing aggro themselves. If you're just playing to grind out mindless aggro wins and not actually enjoying the process of making decisions, what's the point?
Playing a reactive, resource generation deck doesn't make you big brained
Yes it does 😤
I used to main priest and still play control priest every so often too and tbh it's me being mindless and not aggro. I just need to stay alive and press board clear every turn. Aggro needs to keep track of my removal and not over extend. The game is thus required to take longer than usual because they need to bait out key cards like Shard of the Naaru without overextending. The mirror is pretty brain-dead too. You just sit there, let it go to fatigue, and don't play any minions so that the opponent can't heal from it from cannibalize or steal it after they play Svalna and generate drowns. You do that for 1 hour straight until you reach the tie game. I've had that happen twice and I've auto conceded in the mirror ever since. There really isn't much of a decision making process. If your style of enjoyment is challenging yourself and making decisions, try something else like Nature Shaman or Enrage Warrior. Those mirrors are a lot more interesting too. Oh I also just had a pally assume I had clear the scene and played around it. He had a buffed salesman by Deputization Aura, and instead of trading it with my minion, he went face and the aura wore off, leaving me with no plays where I could trade my minion (Faelin) and activate clear the scene, meanwhile he grew some earthens. That was pretty big brain of them. (I was playing Faelin because I was fiddling around with a meme priest deck revolving around Faelin + Cattle Rustler + Thunderbringer. Cattle Rustler works well with Faelin and Blackwater Behemoth, and so does Thunderbringer. Too slow though.)
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a week of aggro games takes less skill then each control game. There is a reason why the bots are always playing aggro in wild.
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runs out of board clears and dies to the 5th time in 6 turns aggro filled the board (once they forgot to play cards)
For me I personally hate the infinite discovers, bull shit cheap board clears like the light burns, from the long game. But mage does this much better and has an otk at the end of it, so I hate mage much more, and I think priest is weak right now.
I mean, atleast Mage has the decency to try and end the game lol
Anduin.
Because people are resentful and love to make the same stupid jokes again and again.