agreed, our blue line was humming on special teams and even strength with him at the helm. I also think that he absolutely needs this if he's gonna be a head coach again in this league. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up taking over if they end up letting Sully go if Crosby and Malkin call it quits in the next couple years, only time will tell.
Our power play was ranked 21st this year at 20.2%. nothing to write home about obviously, but given how much of a mess this team is, it's surprisingly not bad. It's also insane that a PP quarterbacked by Mikael Granlund and Cale Addison on the worst team in the league is somehow more effective than one with Karlsson, Letang, Crosby, and Malkin.
Actually, he might be *the* guy to do it LOL. He's the architect of the Rangers PP that we've been rolling out for the past few years, with Zib, Bread, Kreider, Fox, and 2C (First Strome, now Tro).
Credit due where credit's due on this one.
DQ built the current Rangers PP foursome of Panarin + Kreider + Zibanejad + Fox, so he should help in some capacity. Don't think it takes a rocket surgeon to play those 4 together, though
I'd like to think there's the chance, but word is the relationship might be over. Guentzel is in a tough spot with respect to the Penguins - he'll be 30 next year, he's been underpaid for his entire NHL career, and giving him a big contract in Pittsburgh goes well beyond the Crosby Era. I think the Pens would pay him top dollar at a shorter term, but eh, Jake deserves everything he gets offered.
After watching Dubas manage to dump Granlund and Petry while also getting Karlsson *and come out with more cap space*, I have to believe there's going to be some salary going out the door again. It's not like the Penguins have useless players - they're just the wrong fits for this team as currently constructed.
Bad fit, average player, terrible season. That one may never make sense. You shouldn't expect great things from a guy making $4.5 million per year, but there was just nowhere to hide him in the lineup where he wasn't dragging the team down.
No chance. Jake is gonna get paid, Pens can't afford him with other holes to fix in the line up and Pens pissed him off by not trying to resign him.
Not happening
Quinn very bluntly said "I'm not gonna tell (them) how to play"
He very much was hands off with the PP and just let them do their thing, since they clicked.
The Pens were 7th in the league in 5 on 4 shots on goal, per MoneyPuck. That doesn't exactly scream "too many playmakers". They just only had a 9.7 shooting % on those shots, which was 3rd from the bottom.
Regression to the mean, a full season of Michael Bunting, and Todd Reirden getting handed his personal effects in a cardboard box all make me hopeful for next season, David Quinn or not.
The sharks power play was actually not bad this year considering their talent level. I think on 32 thoughts they kept saying they were top 10 for the second half of the year
Was it ever leaked why he was dumped by San Jose? Because I remember the timing was weird, kind of insinuating he was fired like Hakstol because players gave him poor reviews in exit interviews.
Nico Sturm did an interview with San Jose Hockey Now and was emphatic that Quinn hadn't lost the room, and was well liked. He and others have said that Quinn did a good job keeping everyone's spirits up through a rough season. If you know anything about Sturm you know that he's brutally honest and wouldn't beat around the bush if he thought Quinn was a huge problem. I think its more likely that players in their exit interviews said "We can't just keep doing this same thing next year and hope it will be different", and management decided a new coach will shake things up.
Basically it was a tough year, they should have been better than they were and firing Quinn was one way to give the team a fresh start next year. Jason Demers said he thought Quinn didn't do enough to adapt his system for how bad we were and how many injuries we had, so that kind of thing could have contributed too.
San Jose had 33 games where they allowed 5 or more goals. Outside of that small stretch of games after Grier's speech where they looked competitive, they were easy to play against. You felt the confidence level drop as soon as they'd allow a goal.
> they were easy to play against
This is kind of a hallmark of David Quinn teams, I fear. The Rangers were unbelievably easy to play against when he was the HC. Idk if it's Quinn's system or what, but under Quinn NYR would just concede the blue line in transition and then collapse to protect the net—teams would walk right into the zone and start peppering shots from all angles.
I’m also curious if the injuries were why Ray Tufts was let go. That dismissal kinda went under the radar in comparison to Quinn, but he was a pillar for decades. I can’t imagine one bad season of injuries means you get a new head trainer.
My theory was that they wanted to bring in someone to run a larger department, kind of like Rick Celebrini does for the Warriors as "Director of Sports Medicine and Performance", and that person would want to bring in their own trainers/nutritionists etc. Hasn't happened yet though.
Terrible job to take. He was never going to get a roster that could compete, he was always going to be the sacrificial lamb for *those* Sharks. It was *never* going to lead to another head coaching gig in the NHL because the team *didn't want to win*.
He just feels like a guy who is in over his head. Like he's a decent college hockey HC but I don't think he's cut out to be an NHL HC. He might do okay as an assistant, and maybe the experience will help him in the future. The team struggled so much under him and the year after he got canned we were a playoff team with more or less the same roster and a coach who apparently didn't even have a system.
Nothing official has come out about the reasoning so we're left to assume that the players voiced a lack of confidence and desire to not play for him for the one remaining season he was under contract for. It could have all been up to Grier, aiming to wipe the slate clean after that horrible season, begin fresh with Smith and Celebrini incoming, and make SJ a more attractive destination for free agents this summer (those willing to stomach another couple of rebuilding seasons, that is).
I mean, it might work out, but besides the Karlsson trade, I can’t remember thinking ‘that’s outside the box thinking’ from Dubas since he’s been brought on. Quinn to Pittsburgh as an assistant has been talked about since he got let go by San Jose.
Depends on who you ask. Some understand he's still trying to dig out of the awful hole Hextall put us in. Others hated the Geuntzel trade because of the lack of a first round pick and don't love the players he's put around Sid. Then there's the Graves signing...I'm saving my judgment for this season
Personally I'm reserving judgment until he's had more time to shape the team. Last summer he did a good job of undoing some of Hextall's biggest mistakes while also making some improvements to the AHL organization. His trade for Reilly didn't work out but he didn't give up anything crazy, the Graves signing has been a mistake so far, the Jarry signing was not great but I would argue it was necessary given the alternatives (plus I think he's still a moveable player).
He made some acceptable signings to build depth last year. Ned was a good signing. Acciari was a good signing. The trade for Bunting was a good move to get value from Jake who was almost definitely going to walk or get overpaid.
I think he's doing as well as anyone could expect given that he inherited a pantry that was almost bare.
Todd rierden should have been fired by New Years based on how the PP looked but you almost never see assistants fired midyear without the HC going too.
I think he's probably correct in taking a longview to make the team competitive again through the draft and taking some swings on low AAV project player's. If he's able to pull something off to give the core one or two more runs then I'll be really impressed, but it's more realistic and reasonable to position the team for the future.
Karlssons production drop off was pretty insane, I could see why they are looking to help him out. Losing 50% of your points, because you went to a better team is wild. Showed just how much San Jose was playing to pump his value so they could trade him.
Yeah, we don't funnel all of our offense through him. He can't be what he was in SJ on a team with Sid, Geno, and Letang. That said, they absolutely should be letting him cook on PP1
PP1 was pretty much always Sid, Geno, Guentzel and a rotating cast of Rust, Bunting, or Rakell with EK65 quarterbacking. But he wasn't really taking over. Idk if that was by design or if he fell victim to the Penguins' legendary pass-first mentality. It was like nobody wanted to step on anyone else's toes or something
You think one of the worst teams in the league got together collectively to get Karlsson to 100 points so that he could be traded?
Why doesn’t Chicago do this with jones? Are they stupid?
It's more or less what they did with Bedard? Go out there, have fun, put up points, and don't worry about defense.
Idk seemed pretty obvious to me last year, and him falling back to his usual 30 year old + pace kinda proved it to me.
Karlsson can really only produce those kinds of numbers when the offence runs entirely though him and he’s given freedom to do what he wants. On a team with guys like Crosby, Guentzel, Malkin, Letang, etc it wasn’t gonna happen
Yes also if you have like one of the worst plus minus like ever. Regardless if you think that stat is important or not it's telling. If you took away the powerplay points and or garbage time goals when his team was down by a large margin then that 100 point season looks a lot different through that lens. I honestly would be ecstatic for the penguins and the ek65 to make me eat my words next year.
I kinda feel for him because he is a nice guy and not a very controversial coach, but his reputation probably has taken a hit after back to back head coaching failures. But in both situations it was kind of similar Rosters. Young and with prospects but not really completely rosters. I would be curious to see him coach a more “built” team but I don’t think we’ll see that for a while
I hope he does well, I'm gonna miss Quinn - I liked him a lot. He was never really dealt a fair hand in San Jose and felt like he did a fine job given what he had to work with.
Ugh... like hope it works out but the ek65 circle jerk bus I just can't get on. Great player to watch but not a great winner. Norris trophy was kinda malarkey considering his plus minus and season the team around him had. Easier to score tons of points when you don't play defense and get points in powerplay and garbage time because your down multiple goals. It's like more of an anomaly Norris than anything. Hes here now and I hope we can figure it out but tbh my confidence in this team is pretty low right now. He'd be one of the first pieces I would move for the rebuild. If he didn't have such a huge cap hit I'd probably feel a lot different about it. No way we can compete with say Fla or Edmonton in a seven game series let alone Toronto, Boston, or the nyr just to name a few.
I don't care who it is, just fix the power play.
Yeah I don’t think Quinn’s that guy
What Quinn will do is get the most offensively from his defensemen. A lot of great offensive years by defenseman under him.
I fucks with this
And he will fucks with everything else
He’s the assistant so who knows.
agreed, our blue line was humming on special teams and even strength with him at the helm. I also think that he absolutely needs this if he's gonna be a head coach again in this league. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up taking over if they end up letting Sully go if Crosby and Malkin call it quits in the next couple years, only time will tell.
Great offensive years for their opposing teams against the Pens too.
Not sure if he ran the power play in SJ but their PP was actually very good relative to their on ice talent
Our power play was ranked 21st this year at 20.2%. nothing to write home about obviously, but given how much of a mess this team is, it's surprisingly not bad. It's also insane that a PP quarterbacked by Mikael Granlund and Cale Addison on the worst team in the league is somehow more effective than one with Karlsson, Letang, Crosby, and Malkin.
Especially during EK65’s Norris season
San Jose’s PP was a cool 5% better than Pittsburgh’s this year.
Actually, he might be *the* guy to do it LOL. He's the architect of the Rangers PP that we've been rolling out for the past few years, with Zib, Bread, Kreider, Fox, and 2C (First Strome, now Tro). Credit due where credit's due on this one.
DQ built the current Rangers PP foursome of Panarin + Kreider + Zibanejad + Fox, so he should help in some capacity. Don't think it takes a rocket surgeon to play those 4 together, though
Well, you'd think someone, anyone, could squeeze more out of a Crosby-Malkin-Guentzel-Karlsson power play too, so there's that.
Do you think the Pens reclaim Guentzel? Honest question, no idea of the cap situation and plan over there or are you referring past tense
I'd like to think there's the chance, but word is the relationship might be over. Guentzel is in a tough spot with respect to the Penguins - he'll be 30 next year, he's been underpaid for his entire NHL career, and giving him a big contract in Pittsburgh goes well beyond the Crosby Era. I think the Pens would pay him top dollar at a shorter term, but eh, Jake deserves everything he gets offered.
Let’s also forget the cap implications. We only have 13ish free cap and splurging most of that space on Jake probably isn’t the brightest idea.
After watching Dubas manage to dump Granlund and Petry while also getting Karlsson *and come out with more cap space*, I have to believe there's going to be some salary going out the door again. It's not like the Penguins have useless players - they're just the wrong fits for this team as currently constructed.
I don't know. Is Graves just a bad fit or a bad player? Or did he just have a bad season?
Bad fit, average player, terrible season. That one may never make sense. You shouldn't expect great things from a guy making $4.5 million per year, but there was just nowhere to hide him in the lineup where he wasn't dragging the team down.
My boy clapped every shot he could but i think he turns the corner this season or gets bundled by christmas.
No chance. Jake is gonna get paid, Pens can't afford him with other holes to fix in the line up and Pens pissed him off by not trying to resign him. Not happening
Quinn very bluntly said "I'm not gonna tell (them) how to play" He very much was hands off with the PP and just let them do their thing, since they clicked.
Todd managed to fuck up a power play unit with Sid, Geno, Karlsson, Letang, and Jakey on it.
You've got too many playmakers and no net front presence. I feel like its not rocket scientology.
The Pens were 7th in the league in 5 on 4 shots on goal, per MoneyPuck. That doesn't exactly scream "too many playmakers". They just only had a 9.7 shooting % on those shots, which was 3rd from the bottom.
Regression to the mean, a full season of Michael Bunting, and Todd Reirden getting handed his personal effects in a cardboard box all make me hopeful for next season, David Quinn or not.
Do Pens fans have a consensus on free agent/trade rumor targets they think would also help right the ship?
You'd think so, right?
*[Rocket appliances](https://tenor.com/view/tpb-ricky-trailer-park-boys-rocket-appliances-gif-24730234)
The sharks power play was actually not bad this year considering their talent level. I think on 32 thoughts they kept saying they were top 10 for the second half of the year
Was it ever leaked why he was dumped by San Jose? Because I remember the timing was weird, kind of insinuating he was fired like Hakstol because players gave him poor reviews in exit interviews.
Nico Sturm did an interview with San Jose Hockey Now and was emphatic that Quinn hadn't lost the room, and was well liked. He and others have said that Quinn did a good job keeping everyone's spirits up through a rough season. If you know anything about Sturm you know that he's brutally honest and wouldn't beat around the bush if he thought Quinn was a huge problem. I think its more likely that players in their exit interviews said "We can't just keep doing this same thing next year and hope it will be different", and management decided a new coach will shake things up. Basically it was a tough year, they should have been better than they were and firing Quinn was one way to give the team a fresh start next year. Jason Demers said he thought Quinn didn't do enough to adapt his system for how bad we were and how many injuries we had, so that kind of thing could have contributed too.
San Jose had 33 games where they allowed 5 or more goals. Outside of that small stretch of games after Grier's speech where they looked competitive, they were easy to play against. You felt the confidence level drop as soon as they'd allow a goal.
> they were easy to play against This is kind of a hallmark of David Quinn teams, I fear. The Rangers were unbelievably easy to play against when he was the HC. Idk if it's Quinn's system or what, but under Quinn NYR would just concede the blue line in transition and then collapse to protect the net—teams would walk right into the zone and start peppering shots from all angles.
I’m also curious if the injuries were why Ray Tufts was let go. That dismissal kinda went under the radar in comparison to Quinn, but he was a pillar for decades. I can’t imagine one bad season of injuries means you get a new head trainer.
My theory was that they wanted to bring in someone to run a larger department, kind of like Rick Celebrini does for the Warriors as "Director of Sports Medicine and Performance", and that person would want to bring in their own trainers/nutritionists etc. Hasn't happened yet though.
Terrible job to take. He was never going to get a roster that could compete, he was always going to be the sacrificial lamb for *those* Sharks. It was *never* going to lead to another head coaching gig in the NHL because the team *didn't want to win*.
He just feels like a guy who is in over his head. Like he's a decent college hockey HC but I don't think he's cut out to be an NHL HC. He might do okay as an assistant, and maybe the experience will help him in the future. The team struggled so much under him and the year after he got canned we were a playoff team with more or less the same roster and a coach who apparently didn't even have a system.
Nothing official has come out about the reasoning so we're left to assume that the players voiced a lack of confidence and desire to not play for him for the one remaining season he was under contract for. It could have all been up to Grier, aiming to wipe the slate clean after that horrible season, begin fresh with Smith and Celebrini incoming, and make SJ a more attractive destination for free agents this summer (those willing to stomach another couple of rebuilding seasons, that is).
Not surprising; Quinn and Sully are BFFs.
BFFs, and they look like they could be brothers, too.
and they both played for Jack Parker at BU together
I mean, it might work out, but besides the Karlsson trade, I can’t remember thinking ‘that’s outside the box thinking’ from Dubas since he’s been brought on. Quinn to Pittsburgh as an assistant has been talked about since he got let go by San Jose.
Sometimes outside the box isn't necessarily a good thing.
How have y'all felt about Dubas so far?
Depends on who you ask. Some understand he's still trying to dig out of the awful hole Hextall put us in. Others hated the Geuntzel trade because of the lack of a first round pick and don't love the players he's put around Sid. Then there's the Graves signing...I'm saving my judgment for this season
Personally I'm reserving judgment until he's had more time to shape the team. Last summer he did a good job of undoing some of Hextall's biggest mistakes while also making some improvements to the AHL organization. His trade for Reilly didn't work out but he didn't give up anything crazy, the Graves signing has been a mistake so far, the Jarry signing was not great but I would argue it was necessary given the alternatives (plus I think he's still a moveable player). He made some acceptable signings to build depth last year. Ned was a good signing. Acciari was a good signing. The trade for Bunting was a good move to get value from Jake who was almost definitely going to walk or get overpaid. I think he's doing as well as anyone could expect given that he inherited a pantry that was almost bare. Todd rierden should have been fired by New Years based on how the PP looked but you almost never see assistants fired midyear without the HC going too. I think he's probably correct in taking a longview to make the team competitive again through the draft and taking some swings on low AAV project player's. If he's able to pull something off to give the core one or two more runs then I'll be really impressed, but it's more realistic and reasonable to position the team for the future.
Aside from not firing Sullivan he is doing fine. Especially considering the mess he inherited.
I saw "Quinn" and "Norris" and I got excited
Karlssons production drop off was pretty insane, I could see why they are looking to help him out. Losing 50% of your points, because you went to a better team is wild. Showed just how much San Jose was playing to pump his value so they could trade him.
No one expected him to sniff 100 points again. Karlsson had a good year
Yeah, we don't funnel all of our offense through him. He can't be what he was in SJ on a team with Sid, Geno, and Letang. That said, they absolutely should be letting him cook on PP1
I didn't watch much pens games but what were the power play groups usually?
PP1 was pretty much always Sid, Geno, Guentzel and a rotating cast of Rust, Bunting, or Rakell with EK65 quarterbacking. But he wasn't really taking over. Idk if that was by design or if he fell victim to the Penguins' legendary pass-first mentality. It was like nobody wanted to step on anyone else's toes or something
Yeah but I'm sure they were still hoping for more than 50 points, and the pp completely imploding when they brought it a 100 point Norris winner
You think one of the worst teams in the league got together collectively to get Karlsson to 100 points so that he could be traded? Why doesn’t Chicago do this with jones? Are they stupid?
It's more or less what they did with Bedard? Go out there, have fun, put up points, and don't worry about defense. Idk seemed pretty obvious to me last year, and him falling back to his usual 30 year old + pace kinda proved it to me.
Karlsson can really only produce those kinds of numbers when the offence runs entirely though him and he’s given freedom to do what he wants. On a team with guys like Crosby, Guentzel, Malkin, Letang, etc it wasn’t gonna happen
I wanted him desperately so he could funnel opportunities to Ovi. Pens getting my favorite defenseman ever makes me so mad.
Sergei Gonchar being a Stanley Cup Champion might brighten your day though, right?
Yes also if you have like one of the worst plus minus like ever. Regardless if you think that stat is important or not it's telling. If you took away the powerplay points and or garbage time goals when his team was down by a large margin then that 100 point season looks a lot different through that lens. I honestly would be ecstatic for the penguins and the ek65 to make me eat my words next year.
Good players on better teams tend to score less than good players on extremely bad teams just because *someone* has to score in those situations.
Huberdeau has entered the chat
those two have always felt like basically the same guy; similar backgrounds, similar styles, they even look kinda similar
I kinda feel for him because he is a nice guy and not a very controversial coach, but his reputation probably has taken a hit after back to back head coaching failures. But in both situations it was kind of similar Rosters. Young and with prospects but not really completely rosters. I would be curious to see him coach a more “built” team but I don’t think we’ll see that for a while
I hope he does well, I'm gonna miss Quinn - I liked him a lot. He was never really dealt a fair hand in San Jose and felt like he did a fine job given what he had to work with.
Add more Mass/RI accents to the Pens bench
Ugh... like hope it works out but the ek65 circle jerk bus I just can't get on. Great player to watch but not a great winner. Norris trophy was kinda malarkey considering his plus minus and season the team around him had. Easier to score tons of points when you don't play defense and get points in powerplay and garbage time because your down multiple goals. It's like more of an anomaly Norris than anything. Hes here now and I hope we can figure it out but tbh my confidence in this team is pretty low right now. He'd be one of the first pieces I would move for the rebuild. If he didn't have such a huge cap hit I'd probably feel a lot different about it. No way we can compete with say Fla or Edmonton in a seven game series let alone Toronto, Boston, or the nyr just to name a few.
Let’s double down on this 32yr old Karlsson signing
Kyle Dubas is my favorite general manager in the league. Thank you hockey gods.
DUBAS MASTERCLASS YET ANOTHER BRILLIANT MOVE