I don't know of any stories where a trade like this has happens and then the player does not sign.
I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but when? It's probably a lock but at a very hefty price tag.
Someone in another thread said that it happened with hamhuis. That his rights got traded to Philly for a 3rd and then he signed with Van. Can’t fact check it though right now.
His rights were traded to Philly and they couldn't get a deal done. Several days later his rights were traded by Philly to Pittsburgh for a third round pick. They also couldn't get anything done and he went to Vancouver in free agency.
Not just wild, completely nonsensical to me.
Why would Tampa Bay do this without a sign-and-trade? Why would Guentzel sign with Tampa Bay without entering the free agent market? If Guentzel really wants to sign with TB why not just wait a day and sign with them? He owes the Hurricanes nothing, and he owes the Lightning nothing. This makes so little sense to me.
I dunno, I think there's a lot of value being first in their ear but also these players aren't unlike us. A team really putting money where there mouth is and saying "we want you, we believe you in" probably goes a long way
If guentzel already knew where he was going to sign though why did Tampa need to aquire his rights ahead of free agency day? Just sign him on free agency day no? Unless Tampa was worried others might get involved.
Things can change quickly. Tampa could change its mind and go in a different direction. If that’s where he wants to go, better to sign now than risk it falling through.
Pretty sure this is what happened to Krug in Boston. Had an offer but tested the market and when he went back the deal was pulled as we spent the cap elsewhere. Things move fast when free agency opens.
Tampa realizes they probably have the best deal, but there’s always someone that can decide to say fuck it and throw an extra 2 mill on the deal. This allows them to get the deal done NOW instead of letting teams keep crunching the numbers and say yeah maybe we can do more.
Which makes this feel like desperation by Tampa rather than them already having a commitment. It sure seems to me that Guentzel is pretty committed to testing free agency and I doubt he’ll change his mind a day beforehand. He’s poised for a bidding war
if they had a commitment from him already wouldn't that be considered tampering?
yeah I know it happens all of the time. I'm asking if by definition it's tampering
It’s only tampering if Carolina considers it to be so. If Tampa reaches out to the team and they OK it before the player, then it’s part of trade negotiations.
The league only cares about tampering when a FO/team exec publicly comments on wanting to sign a player that’s currently under contract with another team.
With these trades the hurricanes would give permission to Tampa to talk to him since Tampa wouldn’t make this trade without seeing if he’s atleast strongly interested in playing for them
No. In deals like this Carolina would grant Tampa the right to talk to Guentzel's camp to work out a deal, as the trade itself is contingent on Guentzel being willing to sign a contract extension. If Guentzel says no there is no trade, or at least that's how it normally goes.
It would only be tampering if Tampa went around that process and talked to Guentzel without Carolina's permission.
Canes only shot was an 8 year deal which is gone now
Somebody like Chicago will pay $10.5 million a year. Gutted that the Canes didn't sign $8 million x 8 years the moment it was asked
Or, that's the cost of getting his rights, and he's going to wait until tomorrow anyhow.
Honestly, Guenzel should wait and get the best offer and best fit for him. Most players have 1 or 2 opportunities like this in their career. He needs to get that income insurance while he's at his peak and healthy. You never know when bad luck will end it prematurely.
To clarify things, he can’t get 8 years from Tampa. Would have had to be a sign and trade. There was some wrong info out there yesterday about this with Tanev and Toronto. This is just to get his rights a day early
I’ve always looked at it like it was silly, but I just now wondered if stuff like that happens because players want to be able to say they played for Detroit before they retired. At least in some cases.
I get this from Tampa’s pov but all Guenztel has to do is wait a day and see if he wants to? Idk if that dampens the relationship he has or would have with Tampa if he decides to go there but still all seems odd to me. I thought this was for the 8th year but I see people elsewhere saying that’s not possible.
A third rounder value wise really isn’t as good as people think. The odds of that even becoming a nhl player nevermind one that is impactful in any way before 2028 is none. However the value to ensure we get guentzel is worth a fucking lot
because we're losing stamkos 100% so if we now can't get guentzel we're completely fucked so jbb wants to get this done before he can get to the open market and some team throws a ridiculous contract at him
But also if I’m JG and I’m literally 24 hours from FA then I’d probably just let it roll. Every team is going to make him that 7 year offer.
I guess it’s a worthy gamble and they must know something about his desires/preferred destination to make the trade. And if you believe the rumors on why it fell apart with CAR this is definitely showing JG he’s a priority.
If I'm Jake Guentzel and there's less than 24 hours to FA, why would I sign when there's going to be a bidding war and I can look at all the offers before deciding?
Is prolonging the playoff streak by a couple of years really worth damaging the relationship with your franchise icon? And after all the cost cutting moves, are they really that much better off with Guentzel instead of Stamkos+?
Somebody kill me. I always figured he wouldn't resign from the minute we traded for him and an extension was never discussed (always thought he'd go back to Pittsburgh tbh). But the reports the past couple of days got my hopes up. This sucks, Canes could struggle next year with 50% of top 9 and two top defenseman leaving or potentially leaving.
Question for anyone, why is it everyone is thinking that the Lightning can't re-sign Stammer? Yesterday after Serg trade it was for gone conclusion that they could get both.
Probably because JBB stated that they have not revised their offer to Stamkos even after the trades happened. The primary goal was to sign him before Monday so he didn’t get to test free agency, JBB is willing to let Stamkos meet with everyone, not looking great right now. I would put the odds of Stamkos signing with Tampa at like 30% right now
A 3rd round pick for signing rights that expire in less than 24 hours is kind of wild, but I respect BriesBois’ utter disregard for draft picks haha
I do think it'd be funny if guentzels agent just keeps hitting the silence button when brisbois calls
I miss that kind of pettiness in the league now a days.
After watching Saving Sakic, I agree.
I don't know of any stories where a trade like this has happens and then the player does not sign. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but when? It's probably a lock but at a very hefty price tag.
Someone in another thread said that it happened with hamhuis. That his rights got traded to Philly for a 3rd and then he signed with Van. Can’t fact check it though right now.
His rights were traded to Philly and they couldn't get a deal done. Several days later his rights were traded by Philly to Pittsburgh for a third round pick. They also couldn't get anything done and he went to Vancouver in free agency.
Lmao I’m in no way involved in the Pennsylvania rivalry but this must have been Flyers Christmas and Pens roast fest
Best day of my life
Guy said fuck that state in particular.
Jimmy Vesey got traded to Buffalo from Nashville then signed with the Rangers.
Not just wild, completely nonsensical to me. Why would Tampa Bay do this without a sign-and-trade? Why would Guentzel sign with Tampa Bay without entering the free agent market? If Guentzel really wants to sign with TB why not just wait a day and sign with them? He owes the Hurricanes nothing, and he owes the Lightning nothing. This makes so little sense to me.
I dunno, I think there's a lot of value being first in their ear but also these players aren't unlike us. A team really putting money where there mouth is and saying "we want you, we believe you in" probably goes a long way
Cut my life into pieces
At least you don't have Torts.
Suffocation
No Binning
Don’t give a fuck as long as we’re winning
Beautiful
Watch the Canucks and you'll fucking start screaming
Bars
It could be worse. Your team could have had an extended Jake on the table, fuck around for a few days and lose him
This is my plastic fork
Yeah, waking up to this wasn't enjoyable.
The idea of signing guentzel is of course exciting but I can’t help but be sad that’s it seems like it’s at the cost of stammer
Stammer and Sergachev.
Still got moser to help out on d and then the geekie kid could be solid
I watched him all year here in the Dub. You're gonna love him. Big, fast, skilled, good on the dot, the kid is on another level. He's ready.
inject Big Brayden Point copium into my veins cuz man… Losing sergy did a number to my mental 😭
He sounds awesome from what I’ve read. Hopefully a high end middle sixer or even a 2C. Big and skilled is exactly what we want
then its guentzel and mcdonagh
Was Sergachev that valuable though? He couldn’t be trusted not that long ago before the injuries
Absolutely. Hedman was so lucky to not be under the same microscope as Sergachev earlier in his career. He was just as full of mistakes.
Good for him. You’re saying he could reach Hedman’s peak eventually?
No he won’t touch that we just wanted him to be a 1D and he kinda peaked as an offensively minded 2D which is good still but not enough for us
The deal is done if it’s a 3rd rounder
If guentzel already knew where he was going to sign though why did Tampa need to aquire his rights ahead of free agency day? Just sign him on free agency day no? Unless Tampa was worried others might get involved.
All bets are off tomorrow, anyone can swoop in with a better deal and they don’t wanna risk it
If I’m Guentzel why not test the market in 18 hours or whatever
Things can change quickly. Tampa could change its mind and go in a different direction. If that’s where he wants to go, better to sign now than risk it falling through.
Pretty sure this is what happened to Krug in Boston. Had an offer but tested the market and when he went back the deal was pulled as we spent the cap elsewhere. Things move fast when free agency opens.
Tampa realizes they probably have the best deal, but there’s always someone that can decide to say fuck it and throw an extra 2 mill on the deal. This allows them to get the deal done NOW instead of letting teams keep crunching the numbers and say yeah maybe we can do more.
Which makes this feel like desperation by Tampa rather than them already having a commitment. It sure seems to me that Guentzel is pretty committed to testing free agency and I doubt he’ll change his mind a day beforehand. He’s poised for a bidding war
Someone should get fired if they traded a 3rd and don't have his commitment
The Sabres did this for Jimmy Vesey lmfao
Actually the perfect example, given how many executives buffalo has fired in the past 10 years
if they had a commitment from him already wouldn't that be considered tampering? yeah I know it happens all of the time. I'm asking if by definition it's tampering
It’s only tampering if Carolina considers it to be so. If Tampa reaches out to the team and they OK it before the player, then it’s part of trade negotiations.
The league only cares about tampering when a FO/team exec publicly comments on wanting to sign a player that’s currently under contract with another team.
With these trades the hurricanes would give permission to Tampa to talk to him since Tampa wouldn’t make this trade without seeing if he’s atleast strongly interested in playing for them
No. In deals like this Carolina would grant Tampa the right to talk to Guentzel's camp to work out a deal, as the trade itself is contingent on Guentzel being willing to sign a contract extension. If Guentzel says no there is no trade, or at least that's how it normally goes. It would only be tampering if Tampa went around that process and talked to Guentzel without Carolina's permission.
Stammer signs 10 mins before free agency? 👀
Julien BriseBois coomed himself at the thought of wasting more draft picks
No lie, throwing away all those picks for Tanner only to dispose of him the following season.
TIL that Brisebois is willing to part with a third rounder to sleep well for one night
Better to trade the rights and get something back than losing out completely.
8th year?
Not eligible without a sign and trade
Just super aggressive then. Motivated by Stammer leaving?
trading his rights doesn't give TB the right to give him an 8th year?
Nope. IIRC you have to have him at the trade deadline if you want to offer that 8th year.
Are you saying I've been living a lie when I do this at the draft in my EA franchise mode?
It’s a recent change I believe
No, he needed to have been on the team as of the trade deadline for that to be an option.
No, had to be done before the trade deadline for that option
Would be incredible if he accepted the Canes deal tomorrow. I mean I am assuming the Tampa deal is done, but would be an all time moment.
Ok, this would almost beat him signing in Van.
Canes only shot was an 8 year deal which is gone now Somebody like Chicago will pay $10.5 million a year. Gutted that the Canes didn't sign $8 million x 8 years the moment it was asked
Or, that's the cost of getting his rights, and he's going to wait until tomorrow anyhow. Honestly, Guenzel should wait and get the best offer and best fit for him. Most players have 1 or 2 opportunities like this in their career. He needs to get that income insurance while he's at his peak and healthy. You never know when bad luck will end it prematurely.
Bye Jake thanks for 3 months 😢
That may have been the most hyped I've been watching our top line in many years.
This was my first season watching so it has also has been the most hyped I've been watching our top line.
Welcome to the emotion Rollercoaster, friend
Pens fans gave us their best until we screw up so badly…
To clarify things, he can’t get 8 years from Tampa. Would have had to be a sign and trade. There was some wrong info out there yesterday about this with Tanev and Toronto. This is just to get his rights a day early
Really? This surprises me cuz I definitely thought the impetus behind acquiring his rights would be ability to sign the 8yr extension
You have to be on a team’s reserve list before the trade deadline to be eligible for an 8 year deal
TIL thanks!
And it was Dreger that put it out there too, like one of the top insiders.
Reuniting Jake with his most prominent and successful linemate, Conor Sheary
A guy whose job he effectively took
That Stamkos video when he returns to Tampa with Detroit is going to hit the feels hard
The Detroit Redwings retirement tour lineup is the greatest of all time. Modano, Kane, Hull, Robitaille, Alfredsson, Stamkos is impressive
Hasek, Chelios
Chelios played more seasons in Detroit than anywhere else; that’s not a retirement tour.
Chelios retired with Atlanta.
Don’t be so confident he’s retired lol
He tried for 7 games and retired, doesn't really count
Those guys played prime years for Detroit, don’t fit the theme
Bourque, Kurri, Iginla, Andreychuk, and Parise come to mind in Colorado
Andreychuk played for half a decade and won a Cup after playing for Colorado. Hardly a retirement gig.
Briere
Doesn’t really touch 4 hall of famers - Datsyuk, Hossa, Pronger, Weber - in Arizona.
I’ve always looked at it like it was silly, but I just now wondered if stuff like that happens because players want to be able to say they played for Detroit before they retired. At least in some cases.
Ah yes just like Kings legends Vinny LeCavelier, Jerome Iginla, Dion Phaneuf, Ilya Kovalchuk
Oh god I don’t want to think about that
That’s good, you won’t have to, he’ll be a Pred.
A lot of Stamkos’ in the NHL it seems. None can compare to Canucks legend, Steven Stamkos.
Oh no Tampa's not done being good are they :( ?
The Bolts acquire Guentzel, Leafs getting Tanev, Florida won the cup, Ottawa got Ullmark, and the Wings are…probably getting Trouba. I am in pain.
Trouba for Walman, elbows all day no griddy
What a crazy 6 days for the Atlantic Division.
You forgot the Bruins got Lettieri and Korpisalo!
And Montreal actually had a good draft for once. Wild times.
So sorry Canes bros good lord
🫂
I once again fell to my knees inside a bojangles
Just watched some guy fall to his knees and drop all his bo-berry biscuits in a Bojangles
[Friedman] I’m hearing the Boberry biscuits are safely going to make it to the table [Friedman] Stunning turn of events occurring here
'The team to beat is Tampa Bay' - Jake Guentzel The Tampa Bay Lightning have exchanged a third round pick for Jake Guentzel.
Why the fuck did we just pay a 3rd round for one day of negotiating rights?
It would be really funny if he signed with some other team tomorrow
Especially if he signs with Carolina.
The deal is either officially done or like 99% there and has been agreed to in principle.
That makes it even worse. If we already agreed to a deal, why on Earth are we paying a 3rd round?
Because they don’t want to chance another team swooping in and making him an offer he can’t refuse once FA opens up.
Maybe but nothing says he cant just wait and see and he would be stupid not to
This shouldnt change anything for guentzel, anyone in that position should still wait to see what comes in the morning
I get this from Tampa’s pov but all Guenztel has to do is wait a day and see if he wants to? Idk if that dampens the relationship he has or would have with Tampa if he decides to go there but still all seems odd to me. I thought this was for the 8th year but I see people elsewhere saying that’s not possible.
A third rounder value wise really isn’t as good as people think. The odds of that even becoming a nhl player nevermind one that is impactful in any way before 2028 is none. However the value to ensure we get guentzel is worth a fucking lot
You still get good players in trades for 3rd rounders. Canucks got Zadorov for like a 3rd and a 5th?
And we want to ensure we get guentzel. I know there’s value there but we don’t want to botch this and end up Hanifin 2.0 where we lose the guy
so no one else calls them and offers more money and changes their mind?
because we're losing stamkos 100% so if we now can't get guentzel we're completely fucked so jbb wants to get this done before he can get to the open market and some team throws a ridiculous contract at him
But also if I’m JG and I’m literally 24 hours from FA then I’d probably just let it roll. Every team is going to make him that 7 year offer. I guess it’s a worthy gamble and they must know something about his desires/preferred destination to make the trade. And if you believe the rumors on why it fell apart with CAR this is definitely showing JG he’s a priority.
You pay a 3rd if the deal is in place
I think it's the opposite. Otherwise you go for the sign and trade OR wait for him to hit free agency.
This is so fucking lame man
I don't think anyone in Carolina expected to keep Guentzel
Well not until the breaking news guys started up this week for Twitter retweets we didn’t.
We didn't until Friday. The reporting on that was really shitty in retrospect.
Hockey reporting being shitty? Say it ain't so!
Not originally but it sounded like it was all but done
The brightest stars burn out the quickest, or something like that
https://preview.redd.it/l41b1etfar9d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a83cf797b1c314fdb43a05ce008ad21859ff1cd7
I fucking hate this
Nooooo Jake 😭💔
Stamkos died for this
Stamkos, #91 on the ice, #1 in my heart (when I think about hockey).
If I'm Jake Guentzel and there's less than 24 hours to FA, why would I sign when there's going to be a bidding war and I can look at all the offers before deciding?
The bidding war already happened. FA day is a myth
LOL this..
Now the Canes need to sign Stamkos for the drama
:(
This hurts his chances of coming back to the penguins
Closest bridge to PNC I can jump off?
Good question. Alexa play Raise Up
New construction just down Wade Ave to get to 440. It's pretty high should do the trick
Pikachu Shocked Face. Now sign Stammer.
Stammer gone. Sergachev and him died for Guentzel.
With what money?
USD
(Stamkos is going to Nashville IMO, just couldn't resist the joke)
Thai Baht
With the money they cleared by trading Serg and Jeannot.
We currently have 18.5 mil in open cap without knowing what Jake is going to get.
Who all do we need to sign with this? Moser, Jake, and Stammer?
Someone in the Bolts sub said deHaan as well
He can take his 850k or kick rocks.
Honestly that’s almost generous. I think I’d rather Fleury come back for 850k.
Is prolonging the playoff streak by a couple of years really worth damaging the relationship with your franchise icon? And after all the cost cutting moves, are they really that much better off with Guentzel instead of Stamkos+?
Guentzel provides significantly more 5v5 compare him and Stamkos on natural stat trick
Yes and yes
If Stammer isn't signed I will lose my fucking mind
Well you might as well start a manhunt for BriseBois then because there’s some unfortunate news for you and Tampa Bay fans.
It’s not looking great :(
Suppppeerrrrr lame
Guentzel and Tanev can do the funniest thing by not signing with their new teams lol
stamkos come to the canes pls
Idk if he would be a great fit on the ice, but the off-ice entertainment would be top tier.
Somebody kill me. I always figured he wouldn't resign from the minute we traded for him and an extension was never discussed (always thought he'd go back to Pittsburgh tbh). But the reports the past couple of days got my hopes up. This sucks, Canes could struggle next year with 50% of top 9 and two top defenseman leaving or potentially leaving.
Canes are losing a lot of players. What exactly is the plan over there?
Pay Jarvis stupid money and hope our prospects are actually 2nd liners?
Making room for Jack Campbell's salary
THAT'S LIKE A MEAL AT RED LOBSTER!
Just fell to my knees in a Bojangles parking lot
Can we please stop stacking the Atlantic division?
I want to die
wtf is this team doing and why the fuck have they not signed Stamkos yet
Something tells me the 2nd part isn't going to happen lol
Probably not. I’m looking forward to the meltdown that will ensure that will make me log off of Twitter for a while
Because they’re not going to :(
Jake is younger, and better now, than Stamkos.
Wonderful offseason to have your GM resign so your new GM only has about a month to plan for Free Agency and negotiations with pending free agents
Tampa really going SNIP SNAP SNIP SNAP
Is that the end of Stamkos?
Can the Atlantic just fucking chill for once
Time to offer him that 8 year 3.5
3rd for signing rights? Holy shit. That's a lot. His utter disregard for picks is kind of amazing though.
https://preview.redd.it/wqc1kqhm2r9d1.png?width=432&format=png&auto=webp&s=b163fc8a451370688daf90a269448c87e88a2009
Question for anyone, why is it everyone is thinking that the Lightning can't re-sign Stammer? Yesterday after Serg trade it was for gone conclusion that they could get both.
Probably because JBB stated that they have not revised their offer to Stamkos even after the trades happened. The primary goal was to sign him before Monday so he didn’t get to test free agency, JBB is willing to let Stamkos meet with everyone, not looking great right now. I would put the odds of Stamkos signing with Tampa at like 30% right now
Alright that makes a lot more sense thanks for the info.
Gonna score 50+ with Kuch.
Cool cool cool
Steep price to pay for 24 hours of negotiation lol
Fuck offf Jake go out west
What the fuck
So sick of this hardball negotiating bullcrap we do