I unfortunately dont have the F-14 so I wouldn't know, but of the jets/helicopters I do own, the biggest difference between a monitor and VR was the F-16. The apache is a little small too but it's more comfy small than claustrophobic small.
Oh my bad lol not sure how I misread that, but yeah I totally agree, F4 felt tight too. I just jumped into it in VR didn't even try it on a monitor lol
I do. In F-16 I get like vertigo or something I lose all sense of where I'm even looking relative to where the aircraft is pointed sometimes. Granted I haven't flown the '16 much, but the canopy structures in other aircraft do provide a point of reference. Sim problems. Gravity and such probably fixes that in real life.
It’s not just a sim thing. Spacial disorientation is very much a thing real pilots contend with especially at night and especially in the frameless jets like the viper, raptor, and thunderbolt.
I have used the ipd setting in DCS to change cockpit size and it works great. It is especially cool because if you open settings while in cockpit view, then when you change the ipd it makes the change visible in the cockpit in real time right (behind the settings window).
You can change the worldscale for VR to alter this quite a bit. It's mislabeled as IPD in the VR settings, while I don't own the F-16 myself I've heard it's one where it's very out of scale by default.
Unfortunately there is no module specific setting for this, only a universal one. And each module seems to have a different standard because reasons.
No. If the IPD is wrong, you get image misalignment and can have double-vision. It doesn't directly affect world scale.
Think about it, if you were right - closing one eye and then changing the setting wouldn't affect perceived world scale. Yet it does.
Obviously binocular vision plays a part in the sense of scale, and the image will look weird if the IPD is wrong, but linear dimensions can very much be perceived by a single eye and should not be affected by the "IPD setting", yet they are. It's mislabeled.
My goggles have a manual IPD setting. Changing it to a wrong value hurts my eyes and blurs my vision. DCS only changes the width of the cockpit for me. Unless I go to extremes.
So the goggle IPD changes where the goggles focus, so if the IPD is wrong, they will focus suboptimally, making it blurry.
With the game settings, there are two cameras set IPD Distance apart, so if you increase the IPD, you move the cameras further apart meaning the virtual “head” is bigger which makes everything seem smaller by comparison.
Try closing one eye and changing the setting. You'll see the world scale change! That shouldn't happen if what you said was correct and world scale was defined by distance between virtual cameras.
Now try changing the actual IPD setting in your headset software (or with a physical control, if your headset has physical IPD adjustment) with one eye closed. The world scale won't change, as expected, you'll instead get distortion, and opening the other eye may create double-vision.
EDIT: Sorry, I didn't realize I already replied to you, apologies for the double notification
It honestly depends, Ive sat/ seen a few real cockpits of DCS planes I own, and... the MiG-21 ( i sat in) seems cramped in DCS but was fine IRL for me (and im a big guy) while the BF-109 cockpit (put my head inside cockpit of one at Oshkosh)seems fine in the sim and I couldnt last 2 seconds with the canopy closed IRL or my claustrophobia would set in. The Mosquito was super roomy looking (again stuck my camera into one at Oshkosh) in both sim and IRL. Perspective? not sure.
In VR settings tab there is a setting called IPD.
It is not IPD actually, you set that normally in your headset and if you set it wrong you will feel awful.
Anyway that setting is actually the cockpit scale setting and you need to adjust it for each cockpit. No setting is not saved per cockpit but it is different per cockpit due to lack of standardisation I believe in DCS from the beginning.
So whenever you got in a cockpit you need to adjust it before startup.
F-16 is a cramped cockpit but A-10 F-5 and P-47 are actually very roomy. so keep that in your mind.
That doesn’t just change the cockpit scale, it changes the scale of everything by changing the distance between the “VR eyes” that render in the game, so lower IPD means everything looks bigger and high IPD makes everything look smaller. In theory and if the models are designed with the correct dimensions relative to each other, then setting the IPD to your irl IPD should make the scale accurate, unfortunately it doesn’t seem like the scales are perfect across all modules.
If you change the distance in between VR eyes you change the perspective you change the depth perception. DCS setting does not do that.
I used to work with VR in late 90'ies. Our metric cameras were 1m apart from each other which creates super perspective which we used to draw plans of monuments.
you can only work in that environment for 15 minutes otherwise your brains will adapt. IF you exceed your limit you first feel strange than your body will adapt and the moment that you stop using it you will have no depth perception in real world. Until you sleep and wake up again.
Believe me that in game setting does not change 3rd dimension. It is really a 2d adjustment of the cockpit scale. Try the extremities. You will not get the sickness that I say.
How I know this: well I ignored the warning of 15m. It was horrible. They needed to carry me gave me a drive bring me to my apartment take me to the toilet. Hold me there and bring me to my bed.
I had no depth perception IRL until I wake up next morning.
Is the setting specific to and affected by only the aircraft? or are there other factors too like headset or some of its settings?
What I’m going at is, is there a known list of values to be set per aircraft, or is it impossible to create one that works for everyone?
Exactly what I experience! A-10 spacious as fuck, same goes for my little baby F-5 … but the Mirage 2000, yes… Not sure if a French baguette fits in there!
My theory is that the narrow field of view in vr somewhat distorts your sense of scale. It’s far better than on a flat screen where there’s zero, but lacking peripheral vision means you’re missing a few cues that you’d have in real life.
Also, you can’t see your own body so in something like a cockpit you might not get the same feeling.
I find it seems really big until you turn on the pilot model, and then you realise how far forward the pilot actually is and how much room the body takes up
Cockpit: 3D
Screen: 2D
This happens with pretty much any flight sim. I remember being legitimately surprised as to how friggin small and cramped the 737's flight deck was after spending months flying it in the sim. Adding to my point, when I fly the 737 with VR it feels much more like reality.
What plane did you get in irl. My only perspective to compare to (irl vs DCS VR) are L-39, P-51, and F-16. For me they all are amazing representatives of the space (or lack thereof). The only thing that makes it "feel" slightly roomier is that I can't see my body parts taking up space.
You could try convert your current screen into a 'real world' representation by adjusting the FOV settings. This works great if you have a head tracker.
Do a google search for FOV Calculator, like this one, complete the parameters and then using the hFOV, apply it to DCS.
[https://simracingcockpit.gg/fov-calculator/](https://simracingcockpit.gg/fov-calculator/)
Usually because thru a screen you don't have proper depth perception, as well as normally DCS isn't played with a pilot body enabled due to the model blocking some important buttons or switches you need to get to
I have a 1:1 -16 pit. It’s absolutely tiny compared to in DCS. On the other hand I’ve spent alot of time in the F-4, front and back pits, and in DCS they actually feel smaller than the real jet.
Perception of scale in DCS is off in VR, even when adjusting all the settings already mentioned. For example, at 2000ft buildings and runways always feels much smaller than they appear irl. Some other sims do a worse job (e.g., P3D), but notably some sims do a great job. For example, setup identical locations in DCS and X-Plane and notice how much more accurate XP is at providing more accurate perception of scale.
Ever played in VR?
Lol was coming here to say this. F-16 in particular, it's small, but on flat screen it feels spacious. In VR it's very much claustrophobic.
F16? Bro it feels like a mcMansion compared to the F4. I jumped in for the first time last week and closed the canopy and became claustrophobic.
Yup, the videos did NOT convey just how cramped it is lol
I have yet to jump on the back haha. I don't think I could do a full mission back there.
I unfortunately dont have the F-14 so I wouldn't know, but of the jets/helicopters I do own, the biggest difference between a monitor and VR was the F-16. The apache is a little small too but it's more comfy small than claustrophobic small.
The F-4E Phantom. Not the 14.
Oh my bad lol not sure how I misread that, but yeah I totally agree, F4 felt tight too. I just jumped into it in VR didn't even try it on a monitor lol
You really don’t miss the canopy structure going from literally anything to the F-16.
I do. In F-16 I get like vertigo or something I lose all sense of where I'm even looking relative to where the aircraft is pointed sometimes. Granted I haven't flown the '16 much, but the canopy structures in other aircraft do provide a point of reference. Sim problems. Gravity and such probably fixes that in real life.
It’s not just a sim thing. Spacial disorientation is very much a thing real pilots contend with especially at night and especially in the frameless jets like the viper, raptor, and thunderbolt.
Heatblur is onto something then "pointy end that way" with an arrow or better, pointing that way.
Funny thing is the F-4 in real life is pretty roomy. Especially the back pit
Visibility sucks though lol.
At least it isn’t the RA-5C. Those poor buggers had a mail slot on each side to see out of.
Mcmansion? XD
I have used the ipd setting in DCS to change cockpit size and it works great. It is especially cool because if you open settings while in cockpit view, then when you change the ipd it makes the change visible in the cockpit in real time right (behind the settings window).
You can change the worldscale for VR to alter this quite a bit. It's mislabeled as IPD in the VR settings, while I don't own the F-16 myself I've heard it's one where it's very out of scale by default. Unfortunately there is no module specific setting for this, only a universal one. And each module seems to have a different standard because reasons.
It’s not mislabeled. If the IPD is wrong, the world scale looks off.
No. If the IPD is wrong, you get image misalignment and can have double-vision. It doesn't directly affect world scale. Think about it, if you were right - closing one eye and then changing the setting wouldn't affect perceived world scale. Yet it does. Obviously binocular vision plays a part in the sense of scale, and the image will look weird if the IPD is wrong, but linear dimensions can very much be perceived by a single eye and should not be affected by the "IPD setting", yet they are. It's mislabeled.
It's IPD of the virtual pilot. It should match your actual IPD.
My goggles have a manual IPD setting. Changing it to a wrong value hurts my eyes and blurs my vision. DCS only changes the width of the cockpit for me. Unless I go to extremes.
So the goggle IPD changes where the goggles focus, so if the IPD is wrong, they will focus suboptimally, making it blurry. With the game settings, there are two cameras set IPD Distance apart, so if you increase the IPD, you move the cameras further apart meaning the virtual “head” is bigger which makes everything seem smaller by comparison.
Try closing one eye and changing the setting. You'll see the world scale change! That shouldn't happen if what you said was correct and world scale was defined by distance between virtual cameras. Now try changing the actual IPD setting in your headset software (or with a physical control, if your headset has physical IPD adjustment) with one eye closed. The world scale won't change, as expected, you'll instead get distortion, and opening the other eye may create double-vision. EDIT: Sorry, I didn't realize I already replied to you, apologies for the double notification
I can make the cockpit go from tiny to ultra wide just by moving this imaginary IPD setting. The setting also changes with airframes
It's IPD of the virtual pilot. It should match your actual IPD.
Or flied the MiG-21. Somehow, that thing looks tiny on a pancake display.
I flied a plane
And then I frew up
Yeah! That was the first thing I noticed in VR. With realistic scale and view it’s so cramped!
Exactly! First cockpit in VR that I say in, I was stunned by how cramped it felt! Apparently the warbirds are even more cramped.
Aye. Looked a lot more real there (obviously)
VR to me is pretty much the same as the real aircraft I sat in in museums. They're not built with comfort as a top priority!
because a 3d world is shown on a 2d display
Whoa guys we got a freakin' detective over here holy shit
It honestly depends, Ive sat/ seen a few real cockpits of DCS planes I own, and... the MiG-21 ( i sat in) seems cramped in DCS but was fine IRL for me (and im a big guy) while the BF-109 cockpit (put my head inside cockpit of one at Oshkosh)seems fine in the sim and I couldnt last 2 seconds with the canopy closed IRL or my claustrophobia would set in. The Mosquito was super roomy looking (again stuck my camera into one at Oshkosh) in both sim and IRL. Perspective? not sure.
In VR settings tab there is a setting called IPD. It is not IPD actually, you set that normally in your headset and if you set it wrong you will feel awful. Anyway that setting is actually the cockpit scale setting and you need to adjust it for each cockpit. No setting is not saved per cockpit but it is different per cockpit due to lack of standardisation I believe in DCS from the beginning. So whenever you got in a cockpit you need to adjust it before startup. F-16 is a cramped cockpit but A-10 F-5 and P-47 are actually very roomy. so keep that in your mind.
That doesn’t just change the cockpit scale, it changes the scale of everything by changing the distance between the “VR eyes” that render in the game, so lower IPD means everything looks bigger and high IPD makes everything look smaller. In theory and if the models are designed with the correct dimensions relative to each other, then setting the IPD to your irl IPD should make the scale accurate, unfortunately it doesn’t seem like the scales are perfect across all modules.
If you change the distance in between VR eyes you change the perspective you change the depth perception. DCS setting does not do that. I used to work with VR in late 90'ies. Our metric cameras were 1m apart from each other which creates super perspective which we used to draw plans of monuments. you can only work in that environment for 15 minutes otherwise your brains will adapt. IF you exceed your limit you first feel strange than your body will adapt and the moment that you stop using it you will have no depth perception in real world. Until you sleep and wake up again. Believe me that in game setting does not change 3rd dimension. It is really a 2d adjustment of the cockpit scale. Try the extremities. You will not get the sickness that I say. How I know this: well I ignored the warning of 15m. It was horrible. They needed to carry me gave me a drive bring me to my apartment take me to the toilet. Hold me there and bring me to my bed. I had no depth perception IRL until I wake up next morning.
It does change the rest of the world in DCS tho. Turn it up then eject on an airbase and walk around.
They really need to rename it to worldscale and make it module specific.
Yes it is a corrective setting for VR. I'm actually happy that DCS has it. And module specific setting will be wonderful.
Is the setting specific to and affected by only the aircraft? or are there other factors too like headset or some of its settings? What I’m going at is, is there a known list of values to be set per aircraft, or is it impossible to create one that works for everyone?
Exactly what I experience! A-10 spacious as fuck, same goes for my little baby F-5 … but the Mirage 2000, yes… Not sure if a French baguette fits in there!
My theory is that the narrow field of view in vr somewhat distorts your sense of scale. It’s far better than on a flat screen where there’s zero, but lacking peripheral vision means you’re missing a few cues that you’d have in real life. Also, you can’t see your own body so in something like a cockpit you might not get the same feeling.
Can't you add a pilot body to the cockpit if you want?
You can, but it’s still not the same as seeing your own real self.
I find it seems really big until you turn on the pilot model, and then you realise how far forward the pilot actually is and how much room the body takes up
For a good sense of scale activating the pilot body usually is a good idea. Especially on 2D.
Cockpit: 3D Screen: 2D This happens with pretty much any flight sim. I remember being legitimately surprised as to how friggin small and cramped the 737's flight deck was after spending months flying it in the sim. Adding to my point, when I fly the 737 with VR it feels much more like reality.
Well, in vr in DCS, I always have the impression cockpit appears smaller than it should
I used to. Until i tried squeezing myself into one irl
What plane did you get in irl. My only perspective to compare to (irl vs DCS VR) are L-39, P-51, and F-16. For me they all are amazing representatives of the space (or lack thereof). The only thing that makes it "feel" slightly roomier is that I can't see my body parts taking up space.
You could try convert your current screen into a 'real world' representation by adjusting the FOV settings. This works great if you have a head tracker. Do a google search for FOV Calculator, like this one, complete the parameters and then using the hFOV, apply it to DCS. [https://simracingcockpit.gg/fov-calculator/](https://simracingcockpit.gg/fov-calculator/)
And that's why we need pilot models :) (looking at you A-10C II)
Tried VR? As a tall Dutch man my butt is basically below the fuselage and cockpits feel very cramped.
Usually because thru a screen you don't have proper depth perception, as well as normally DCS isn't played with a pilot body enabled due to the model blocking some important buttons or switches you need to get to
I have a 1:1 -16 pit. It’s absolutely tiny compared to in DCS. On the other hand I’ve spent alot of time in the F-4, front and back pits, and in DCS they actually feel smaller than the real jet.
Perception of scale in DCS is off in VR, even when adjusting all the settings already mentioned. For example, at 2000ft buildings and runways always feels much smaller than they appear irl. Some other sims do a worse job (e.g., P3D), but notably some sims do a great job. For example, setup identical locations in DCS and X-Plane and notice how much more accurate XP is at providing more accurate perception of scale.