Glad you enjoy it. I hated it. Limited compatibility, proprietary zigbee, can’t add devices/drivers on your own, windows 98 interface on composer, closed system, $$$
Thank you for your comment. If I told you I have read others that said the same thing as you did, I am sure it would not surprise you. The point is, know what you are buying, why you are buying it and make the right decision for you. This forum should provide both sides to help other. Thank you again for your comment.
After going down the Control 4 route in my house, automating lights, cameras, alarm, blinds, theater, and whole house audio, here are my thoughts.
I think whether it is right for one person vs another has a lot to do with expectations.
If you want someone else to do all the work and don't mind paying a LOT for installation, service, upgrades and subscriptions, and you don't mind calling your dealer every time a light goes out or something breaks, then control 4 can be really nice once it is fully setup, configured, tested, and working.
If you like to tinker, want to save money, and like to do things yourself and have more personal control, then it can drive you crazy.
I personally sit in the middle. I like my control 4 setup for many things, but found the slow response from my dealer, and the insane cost, and the long lead time proprietary hardware to be really frustrating. On my new construction house, we are a couple of years in, and most of the bugs are now worked out, (and there were many) but we are still not 100% finished.
If I were to do things again, I probably would have kept things simpler with less automation and cheaper components, as I have not experienced the "industrial grade" reliability and performance that I was promised.
I had a lot of bugs and voodoo in my system that was beyond frustrating, especially considering I could have had a lamborghini for the price I paid in proprietary equipment. Thankfully, we are nearing a point where stuff is starting to work.
Of course, that is my experience in a very big house with one of the most complex systems our dealer had ever installed.
Thank you for taking the time to really explain your situation. I can clearly see why you feel the way you do. That is why my post focused on understanding how the system works so you can fully leverage the Composer HE Program. With out my ability to tinker, I would have passed on the system for sure. My house is not huge but for a town home, it is big at 3200 sf. Four Floors. I also helped design the home prior to ever even interviewing five of the installation companies.
I will share with you a situation that made me laugh. I use macro buttons. One is Morning which wakes the home up across the board. The other is Night button that reverse the process. About once a month, my wife hits the wrong button, and I hear if for an hour how all she wants is simple. Happy wife, happy life.
Thank you for your comment, it will help people.
> , my wife hits the wrong button, and I hear if for an hour how all she wants is simple. Happy wife, happy life.
My automation core principle is that everything works normally FIRST. Automation is added on top. You don't cover switches, you don't paste buttons on things. You just in the background automate tasks using those and know that the user may manually change the state.
>my wife hits the wrong button
Our solution to that was that buttons that do whole house things or otherwise can be annoying if pressed, require that they are held down for a few seconds before they respond. Buttons that work this way have the word "(hold)" engraved on them as a reminder, as in "House off (hold)"
Good for you, if it works for you that's all you need.
For me locked in doesn't work, I test hundreds of products a year. Zigbee/Zwave, wireless etc. I couldn't possibly use a closed system, it really limits what you can add both right now and in the future.
Like you, I have been doing this for well over 15 years and the best system is one that works for you.
My entire house is automated, from motion for lights at different times of day/night to if it's hot outside to lowering the blinds and turning on the HVAC etc. I even have license plate and geo presence detection working on one of my cameras to open the garage doors. Not possible with any fixed system that I'm aware of.
I have no physical buttons except for the HVAC (one double switch button, hot or cold HVAC for one hour and then off) and leverage Home Assistant as the brains and node red for advanced automations, no fixed system even comes close to the power of node red.
That and I really like to tinker and add more when I want.
Let me give you my take on your comment. I loved it. Why? Because it is a loved hobby that give benefit. Enjoy your system and teach your friends how to create one if they want one. Thank you so much for commenting.
Hard to say because I am a consumer, not an industry expert. My guess is wireless connection between brands might be getting better for sure. However hard wire is another ball game. My goal four years ago was Hard wire where I could for best connection. That being said, one criteria I had was the person putting int the WiFi system was an IT specialist with lots of experience. Because of that, my wifi is solid on each of the four floors, inside/out of my Townhouse.
Long answer to what would be a simple question. Sorry for that. Thank you for taking the time to ask.
One thing though, consumer wi-fi has come quite far. We have 3 stories and a single hardwired eero pro on each floor (originally bought ~2017). Rock solid. Haven't had a single issue with wi-fi in the house. Literally 100% uptime so far (other than the day we moved and had to disconnect/reconnect). 10 years ago, I couldn't imagine a consumer system with any reliability like that.
The point is in the world of Home Automation, Wiring is the gold standard. Wireless or WiFi has improved but usually is much more the approach when wall are up and wiring is way to difficult. This does not take anything away from your very well designed wireless system. Second and for me an error on my part. I have 27 Screen Innovation Nana Box Automated Shades. I did not wire them. So every four months I have to recharge them. If I had wired them, not of that would be needed.
My point is not that wireless applications are not good or not getting better. It is when one has the choice, wired is for me at least the best options if the drywall is not put up yet. Hope that make sense.
>I’m curious, do you think the gap is shrinking between professionally installed all in one systems and DIY in terms of “it just works”?
Not OP, but am a professional integrator. It's definitely easier and cheaper to get into home automation for the average consumer but the 'hub' being limited in the consumer front is really holding back the whole industry. The best hub out right now is Home Assistant but it's such a huge hurdle to get into that the average consumer won't do it. You have consumer friendly options like HomeKit, Alexa, and SmartThings but even those are very limited and pale in comparison to professional options.
I personally use Home Assistant and think it has a huge opportunity if they really refine the setup process and interface.
Audio, video, control signals and extra incase when they put up the drywall, they messed with the cable. Kind of a backup. Also, I was very specific with the Cat6 cables being nowhere close to the electric lines, so it did not mess with the video signals. The area of where I had cat6 for touch screens was exactly 4 ft off the floor for best placement. I hope I answered your questions. Thank you for asking.
Yeah I do a minimum of 4Cat to any location.
Typically that means HdbaseT, speaker, touch panel, and control cabling. I go up from there.
That's my standard compliment.
I’m using my own homebrew solution. I have nothing against Control4 - I have friends who install it (and alarm systems), and they swear by it. I think it’s a solution used on some yachts, too.
There are 4 tiers in the home automation world:
* Home Assistant. This is by FAR the most capable, has the best device support, and has the most momentum behind it of any home automation platform out there. Nothing even comes close. That said it's DIY and you get what you put into it. Most people don't do that complex of things with it where it really shines and it's not for those without some savvy and willingness to put in the work.
* The commercial solutions. Control4 is the least flexible of these but also the cheapest. These are a good option for those who want some mid-level home automation capabilities but don't have the skill, desire, and/or time to go the DIY route, and can afford to just pay someone to do the work for them. These are too expensive for most.
* The consumer automation platforms like Apple Homekit, SmartThings, Google Home, etc. These allow relatively basic automations for those that aren't savvy enough to do more but don't want to pay for a commercial solution. This is a starting point for a lot of people jumping into Home Assistant once they realize the limitations.
* The smart app crowd. These are just the people that buy a device and control everything manually from the app that comes with it and have 15 apps installed. This is not really home automation.
Its funny, I jump from 2<->4. I've never had the means for the commercial systems, but HA has a cheap starting point of simply just owning a raspberry pi. I use almost exclusively a Apple Home front end, but I have some stuff on the H-A behind the scenes.
I was going to do control4 but because of how difficult they are about software, dealer licensing etc. I ended up choosing KNX which is amazing and I can make whatever changes I want
Thank you for sharing. Using any installer-led product is really a trade off between configurability and ease of use. It’s important that we all look ourselves in the mirror and ask ourselves if we are truly able to create the system we want for ourselves. For even the most capable of people, the answer may be no. Designing a system is a time commitment, requires a ton of research, and is sometimes as frustrating as it is rewarding.
I’ve been designing my own smart home systems for over 15 years now, and some of them have been stinkers. Now on my sixth property, I’ve found a really amazing balance between usability, stability, novelty, and automations that meet my needs. That is the important part though—it meets *my* needs.
I have luxometers that inform my automations how to adjust the shades in different contexts. I have bed sensors that put the house into sleep mode when everyone goes to bed. I have tie-ins to my Apple Health data that adjust the color temperature before bed. I have panels that display my front door camera when someone rings the doorbell. I also have energy monitoring, garage control, irrigation control, a custom HVAC sensor setup, and more.
These are things that I largely could not achieve without building the system myself and a ton of experience. To OP’s point, however, I know my goals and they exceed what most systems are designed to offer. If your goal is to simply centralize control into a pretty interface, systems like Control4 are great. If you want highly complex automations, they are likely not the right choice.
Do you, boo!
I have control4 strictly for up control of entertainment, nothing else. It’s the only thing my wife and kids need to work 100% of the and was the largest pain point in regard to dad tech work in the house before control4.
Glad you enjoy it. I hated it. Limited compatibility, proprietary zigbee, can’t add devices/drivers on your own, windows 98 interface on composer, closed system, $$$
Thank you for your comment. If I told you I have read others that said the same thing as you did, I am sure it would not surprise you. The point is, know what you are buying, why you are buying it and make the right decision for you. This forum should provide both sides to help other. Thank you again for your comment.
You basically just described the iPhone! As op said, sometimes using it "just work" is worthwhile
After going down the Control 4 route in my house, automating lights, cameras, alarm, blinds, theater, and whole house audio, here are my thoughts. I think whether it is right for one person vs another has a lot to do with expectations. If you want someone else to do all the work and don't mind paying a LOT for installation, service, upgrades and subscriptions, and you don't mind calling your dealer every time a light goes out or something breaks, then control 4 can be really nice once it is fully setup, configured, tested, and working. If you like to tinker, want to save money, and like to do things yourself and have more personal control, then it can drive you crazy. I personally sit in the middle. I like my control 4 setup for many things, but found the slow response from my dealer, and the insane cost, and the long lead time proprietary hardware to be really frustrating. On my new construction house, we are a couple of years in, and most of the bugs are now worked out, (and there were many) but we are still not 100% finished. If I were to do things again, I probably would have kept things simpler with less automation and cheaper components, as I have not experienced the "industrial grade" reliability and performance that I was promised. I had a lot of bugs and voodoo in my system that was beyond frustrating, especially considering I could have had a lamborghini for the price I paid in proprietary equipment. Thankfully, we are nearing a point where stuff is starting to work. Of course, that is my experience in a very big house with one of the most complex systems our dealer had ever installed.
Thank you for taking the time to really explain your situation. I can clearly see why you feel the way you do. That is why my post focused on understanding how the system works so you can fully leverage the Composer HE Program. With out my ability to tinker, I would have passed on the system for sure. My house is not huge but for a town home, it is big at 3200 sf. Four Floors. I also helped design the home prior to ever even interviewing five of the installation companies. I will share with you a situation that made me laugh. I use macro buttons. One is Morning which wakes the home up across the board. The other is Night button that reverse the process. About once a month, my wife hits the wrong button, and I hear if for an hour how all she wants is simple. Happy wife, happy life. Thank you for your comment, it will help people.
> , my wife hits the wrong button, and I hear if for an hour how all she wants is simple. Happy wife, happy life. My automation core principle is that everything works normally FIRST. Automation is added on top. You don't cover switches, you don't paste buttons on things. You just in the background automate tasks using those and know that the user may manually change the state.
>my wife hits the wrong button Our solution to that was that buttons that do whole house things or otherwise can be annoying if pressed, require that they are held down for a few seconds before they respond. Buttons that work this way have the word "(hold)" engraved on them as a reminder, as in "House off (hold)"
Good for you, if it works for you that's all you need. For me locked in doesn't work, I test hundreds of products a year. Zigbee/Zwave, wireless etc. I couldn't possibly use a closed system, it really limits what you can add both right now and in the future. Like you, I have been doing this for well over 15 years and the best system is one that works for you. My entire house is automated, from motion for lights at different times of day/night to if it's hot outside to lowering the blinds and turning on the HVAC etc. I even have license plate and geo presence detection working on one of my cameras to open the garage doors. Not possible with any fixed system that I'm aware of. I have no physical buttons except for the HVAC (one double switch button, hot or cold HVAC for one hour and then off) and leverage Home Assistant as the brains and node red for advanced automations, no fixed system even comes close to the power of node red. That and I really like to tinker and add more when I want.
Let me give you my take on your comment. I loved it. Why? Because it is a loved hobby that give benefit. Enjoy your system and teach your friends how to create one if they want one. Thank you so much for commenting.
I’m curious, do you think the gap is shrinking between professionally installed all in one systems and DIY in terms of “it just works”?
Hard to say because I am a consumer, not an industry expert. My guess is wireless connection between brands might be getting better for sure. However hard wire is another ball game. My goal four years ago was Hard wire where I could for best connection. That being said, one criteria I had was the person putting int the WiFi system was an IT specialist with lots of experience. Because of that, my wifi is solid on each of the four floors, inside/out of my Townhouse. Long answer to what would be a simple question. Sorry for that. Thank you for taking the time to ask.
One thing though, consumer wi-fi has come quite far. We have 3 stories and a single hardwired eero pro on each floor (originally bought ~2017). Rock solid. Haven't had a single issue with wi-fi in the house. Literally 100% uptime so far (other than the day we moved and had to disconnect/reconnect). 10 years ago, I couldn't imagine a consumer system with any reliability like that.
The point is in the world of Home Automation, Wiring is the gold standard. Wireless or WiFi has improved but usually is much more the approach when wall are up and wiring is way to difficult. This does not take anything away from your very well designed wireless system. Second and for me an error on my part. I have 27 Screen Innovation Nana Box Automated Shades. I did not wire them. So every four months I have to recharge them. If I had wired them, not of that would be needed. My point is not that wireless applications are not good or not getting better. It is when one has the choice, wired is for me at least the best options if the drywall is not put up yet. Hope that make sense.
>I’m curious, do you think the gap is shrinking between professionally installed all in one systems and DIY in terms of “it just works”? Not OP, but am a professional integrator. It's definitely easier and cheaper to get into home automation for the average consumer but the 'hub' being limited in the consumer front is really holding back the whole industry. The best hub out right now is Home Assistant but it's such a huge hurdle to get into that the average consumer won't do it. You have consumer friendly options like HomeKit, Alexa, and SmartThings but even those are very limited and pale in comparison to professional options. I personally use Home Assistant and think it has a huge opportunity if they really refine the setup process and interface.
Why 4 network cables to each tv?
Audio, video, control signals and extra incase when they put up the drywall, they messed with the cable. Kind of a backup. Also, I was very specific with the Cat6 cables being nowhere close to the electric lines, so it did not mess with the video signals. The area of where I had cat6 for touch screens was exactly 4 ft off the floor for best placement. I hope I answered your questions. Thank you for asking.
Yeah I do a minimum of 4Cat to any location. Typically that means HdbaseT, speaker, touch panel, and control cabling. I go up from there. That's my standard compliment.
I’m using my own homebrew solution. I have nothing against Control4 - I have friends who install it (and alarm systems), and they swear by it. I think it’s a solution used on some yachts, too.
There are 4 tiers in the home automation world: * Home Assistant. This is by FAR the most capable, has the best device support, and has the most momentum behind it of any home automation platform out there. Nothing even comes close. That said it's DIY and you get what you put into it. Most people don't do that complex of things with it where it really shines and it's not for those without some savvy and willingness to put in the work. * The commercial solutions. Control4 is the least flexible of these but also the cheapest. These are a good option for those who want some mid-level home automation capabilities but don't have the skill, desire, and/or time to go the DIY route, and can afford to just pay someone to do the work for them. These are too expensive for most. * The consumer automation platforms like Apple Homekit, SmartThings, Google Home, etc. These allow relatively basic automations for those that aren't savvy enough to do more but don't want to pay for a commercial solution. This is a starting point for a lot of people jumping into Home Assistant once they realize the limitations. * The smart app crowd. These are just the people that buy a device and control everything manually from the app that comes with it and have 15 apps installed. This is not really home automation.
Its funny, I jump from 2<->4. I've never had the means for the commercial systems, but HA has a cheap starting point of simply just owning a raspberry pi. I use almost exclusively a Apple Home front end, but I have some stuff on the H-A behind the scenes.
I was going to do control4 but because of how difficult they are about software, dealer licensing etc. I ended up choosing KNX which is amazing and I can make whatever changes I want
The one part I don't see mentioned here is the price... And that is also one of the two biggest complaints I've heard about C4.
Thank you for sharing. Using any installer-led product is really a trade off between configurability and ease of use. It’s important that we all look ourselves in the mirror and ask ourselves if we are truly able to create the system we want for ourselves. For even the most capable of people, the answer may be no. Designing a system is a time commitment, requires a ton of research, and is sometimes as frustrating as it is rewarding. I’ve been designing my own smart home systems for over 15 years now, and some of them have been stinkers. Now on my sixth property, I’ve found a really amazing balance between usability, stability, novelty, and automations that meet my needs. That is the important part though—it meets *my* needs. I have luxometers that inform my automations how to adjust the shades in different contexts. I have bed sensors that put the house into sleep mode when everyone goes to bed. I have tie-ins to my Apple Health data that adjust the color temperature before bed. I have panels that display my front door camera when someone rings the doorbell. I also have energy monitoring, garage control, irrigation control, a custom HVAC sensor setup, and more. These are things that I largely could not achieve without building the system myself and a ton of experience. To OP’s point, however, I know my goals and they exceed what most systems are designed to offer. If your goal is to simply centralize control into a pretty interface, systems like Control4 are great. If you want highly complex automations, they are likely not the right choice. Do you, boo!
I have control4 strictly for up control of entertainment, nothing else. It’s the only thing my wife and kids need to work 100% of the and was the largest pain point in regard to dad tech work in the house before control4.