It's also a bit of a kick in the nuts to be told, after doing several projects together in the past, that you are going to shop bids on a small project like this. If you felt pricing was unfair in the past, then find someone new. Otherwise, the homeowner is just being an ass.
I used to work at a place in a field service role that also was a supply house and during a significant downturn one of my new job duties became hitting up places that used to order from us but didn’t anymore.
I stopped by one contractors office and got to chatting and gave him my little speech and the dude told me he’d burn his building down before he ever gave my boss another dollar.
Apparently they used to do a decent amount of business through us, but as the industry expanded and bigger customers came in this guy started getting knocked down the priority list to the point that he’d have to wait a week or more for his orders and if we had to order something in we made him pay upfront. He was pissed. Said that he was a good enough customer for us when we needed him but when bigger fish came along we left him out in the cold, and now that we were struggling here we came, crawling back trying to put our relationship back together.
And that could be for several reasons. The two main ones are 1, the contractor thinks a 12k job is beneath him and has better things to do or 2, the customer is a pain in the ass to work with and the job isn't worth it.
The homeowner isn't your friend. They are the individual(s) that you are being contracted to do work for. That being said, be friendly and nice. But we all know if one party or the other messes up, its the courts that end up getting dragged in.
One can be friendly and professional.
If you take offense, probably time to take a look in mirror and ask why.
He either has more than enough work to feed himself and his employees, there may be something like op's location isn't ideal due to distance or he doesn't have the workers or who knows, I agree, he doesn't want to do it.
Doesn't want to burn a bridge for future work?
Doesn't matter, those are his terms, you get to choose who you hire.
This is the “I’m too busy but if you really really want me to” price. We have a local residential contractor like this. They Are Good! You want him to divert time to bid a job 18-24 months wait (current time line) it gonna cost you AND you still have to wait your turn.
No, the best contractor in the area would have his office person return the call right away and say - I'm so sorry, but we are fully booked until October. If you are still in need of our services, we'd be happy to visit and give you an estimate in August. Blowing people off and charging for estimates is just rude and arrogant.
Why is that, if he's going to spend his and other employees time putting a quote together for you to shop it around , why shouldn't he charge for that, his car isn't free, fuel isn't free, ins. Isn't free, his employees don't work for free, his rent isn't free, while he's quoting you he could be quoting or signing contracts with another, time us money, I am sure the $200 is credited should he be the chosen contractor or if he uses his quote to get a better price then time was not wasted completely.
I think this is a situation where the contractor doesn't want to work with this customer, but submitting bids to compete for work is part of the job. Its just a cost that you have to deal with as a contractor. Customers should be getting a few bids for jobs like this and most trades provide free quoting as a courtesy. I also don't have a problem with charging for quotes for any number of reasons. If you get too many looky loos wasting your time, charging for quotes is a great way to separate people who are serious.
I've had general contractors put out for bids when I have no actual chance of winning and that pisses me off. I've had GC's that self perform my trade use my number in their bids... I don't bid to them anymore. I try to avoid GC's that will take my bid and use it to negotiate with another subcontractor instead of just hiring my company...
If you want to earn someone’s business, you don’t charge for a quote and you explain to your potential customer why they should hire you.
When you don’t want someone’s business, you blow them off multiple times, and when pressed to give a quote you charge for that quote. OP may have been a pain in the ass client previously, or this contractor just doesn’t know how to say “I’m too busy/too wealthy/too bothered” to want the business.
And that $200 quote will have a PITA surcharge. I’ve written those quotes.
This contractor doesn’t want to take you on as a client.
Take the hint and find another contractor.
So if every contractor charged 200 for a quote, it would cost the customer $600 dollars to get 3 estimates to find out if a job is even feasible or not.
And then the contractors that give free estimates would be the only ones competing for jobs. Oh that’s right, that’s how it works now.
$400. You apply the fee if contract is accepted. And yeah, that's how most businesses work. Mechanics charge you for diagnosing for example.
You pay it anyways. Free estimates are rolled into the quote and you're subsidizing the people who get a bunch of quotes for everything. Paying for quotes is cheaper for most of the people and saves the contractors a lot of trash bids. Only window shoppers get screwed in that system.
And that is his choice . He's either been burned by having his quotes shopped, or as others have said maybe his previous projects with this person were less than pleasant and he's not all that interested.
I charge for estimates and have no issue getting work. I do give them a credit towards the bill if they move forward. If they don’t I keep it for my time and expertise. This gets rid of the tire kickers and my time is just as valuable as anyone else’s.
You're also probably good at what you do, established in your field, and getting referrals, so this works for you.
For someone new to the business, charging for quoting is probably not a good idea.
> Why is that, if he's going to spend his and other employees time putting a quote together for you to shop it around , why shouldn't he charge for that, his car isn't free, fuel isn't free, ins
This is known as "The cost of doing business"
Why doesn't OP pay for his clothes he wears to work too? He can't show up naked! OP should at least have to buy him lunch too for even calling and asking about getting an estimate. The time he spent on the phone with him isn't free!
This is someone you've dealt with before? Have you considered that maybe you are being soft fired as a client?
If I had a client that I wasn't interested in doing business with again repeatedly blowing them off and charging for things I normally wouldn't are things that I might do as hints to avoid the awkward break up conversation.
How have past projects gone with this contractor? Change orders impacting schedule? Payment issues? Disagreement on expectations?
This.
A contractor isn't going to jump through hoops to do a quote for a 12k job when upfront you are telling them you are getting multiple quotes. The guy is getting the memo that you are going to shop for the lowest price and he doesn't want to compete that way. Nothing wrong with either side of it, but he just doesn't want to spend the time for a 25% chance of getting a job that has a few thousand in margin in it at best.
Keep in mind, he has to drive there and back, take measurements, get multiple quotes, and then provide it to you. That is more than an hour and I would wager you are going to demand that the estimate be firm.
I have always been upfront with contractors i am getting multiple quotes on every job we get done. I have never been charged for an estimate--in fact most advertise free estimates. Getting at least three quotes for any job, no matter how big or small, is generally good practice.
It may differ by area, but in mine if they think you don't know how much is standard then they tend to upcharge you. Also costs vary widely.
And quotes are not just about cost. Things like material options, timeframe, and other ancillary factors contribute to who you choose to use.
I just wouldn't ever call this guy again for a project.
As someone who has worked in an industry where people get multiple quotes I don’t mind it as a practice, but there are some definite exceptions:
Your primary focus is getting the lowest price. Now I get it, it’s your money and things are tighter than they’ve been in decades, but I also know I will be undercut by bottom of the barrel companies. If it’s clear to me that is what you want, it’s not worth my time to give you a free quote.
You’re planning to try and leverage the quotes against each other. I’m not lowering my price because Bob quoted you a lower rate, and I don’t want to give you ammunition to do the same thing against Dave.
If I get the impression that you are in either of those camps, there’s a good chance we’ll give you a back of the napkin range without a formal written quote, or just decline to do it at all. Also in OPs case specifically:
> but this one, who's actually done work for me before
We put a ton of effort into delivering high quality service, to the point where ~65% of our customers are repeat or referrals. If someone had used us before and is still shopping around for multiple quotes, we don’t especially want their business. I don’t ever want to do a job where the customer isn’t thrilled with the outcome, and clearly that person wasn’t. No reason to knowingly fail twice.
Fair. I know i don't usually go with the lowest bids just because they are lowest--usually i end up some where in the middle due to what's offered for that cost.
And generally i don't get additional quotes if they've done good work so that point is spot on.
I think for me the big exception to the "we've done with before" sense to be tree companies. I seem to always get great work the first time, and the second time they double the price. And we're (i like to think)
pretty chill to work for.
That's absolutely fair, and if we doubled someone's price I'd expect them to shop around too. The last year or two it seems people are looking for an opportunity to absolutely gouge and blame everyone/everything else.
>I'm asking because I want to let him know that it came off kind of unprofessional but I wanted to hear some thoughts first? The cost for an estimate as well, together with his attitude, really rubbed me the wrong way.
You let him know with your money, not your words.
OP, you have worked together before - he does not like you or want to work for you again.
Take a hint already, and find someone who does'nt yet know how annoying you are.
He has every right to charge for his time. You have every right to decline to do business with him. Doesn’t seem like a problem that needs correcting, just move on.
He keeps blowing you off. Why do you want to work with him?
I have not found it to be common for a contractor on a smaller job like this to charge for quotes, but certain industries have moved that direction. Lumber yards used to do free takeoffs for lumber packages, but I guess too many people were taking the quotes and using them to cross shop with other suppliers. Also, I think they've started outsourcing their takeoffs. As a result they started charging for them.
It doesn't really apply in this case, but for lumber, for example, if I pay for a takeoff, I'm not going to feel bad taking that quote around to other suppliers to try to find the best deal.
As somebody who used to do bid/estimate based project work I eventually got to the point where I started charging for bids.
There were several drivers for this:
- 90+% of requested bids were not "real", meaning the customer was either budgeting, trying to get a DIY jumpstart, or using it to negotiate with their actual vendor.
- out of the 10% that were real, meaning the customer was ready to do the work and was looking for bids for actual work, about 80% would go with whomever's bid was cheapest. I was *never* the cheapest bid, but I was always the best overall value (IMHO).
- so, out of each 100 bid requests there were roughly 90 that were not real, 8 that would go with the cheapest, and two who would weigh quality, reputation, and references.
- I would, however, do no-cost bids for existing customers who were familiar with the quality of my work and business ethics - UNLESS that customer was a micro-managing, nit-picking, never-happy, discount-whining, endless-punchlisting asshole.
- for known assholes, they'd get the Asshole Tax - slow response, increased up front bid cost, and a labor estimate padded out to deal with their BS.
- about half the time I'd lose them as a customer, but the other half would typically go with somebody else, deal with the sadly prevalent sleazy nature of many contractors, then come back to me understanding that my 25% higher bid came with 99% less hassle and risk.
So, I learned that there are people who pinch pennies and make service workers jump through hoops as a kind of sport, and for them success does not equate with getting hassle-free, quality work done at a fair price, for them success equates to making contractors jump around like puppets until they feel they've gotten their money's worth of petty tyranny.
I'm not suggesting you are or aren't like this because I don't know your circumstances, but I wanted to share the perspective of someone on the other side who was honest and scrupulous and always strived to provide good work at a fair price. If I constantly gave away free estimates to people who weren't serious then I'd have to recoup that time/money by overcharging my other customers.
Also note, this may be obvious, but many low-bidder contractors will either a) cut corners or b) come up with unexpected cost overruns, making their "low bid" a mirage.
@engineerboy00 know his stuff
If this contractor charges $200 for a bid he knows he isn’t the cheapest and probably does good work. If that’s what you want then you dont mind paying $200 for his time.
If you want the cheapest bid then dont pay him.
I always warn my customers that the lowest bid never ends up being the cheapest. Either with change orders or having to pay someone else to come in a fix the cheapest work.
Don’t hire anyone who doesn’t show up- for anything including a quote.
It’s not a good sign.
Next time don’t tell them you are getting multiple quotes.
It's starting to become more and more common simply because of the time it takes to drive out there, the wear and tear on the vehicle and so on and so forth. However that money is applied towards the job if you choose to do it
There's just too many Price shoppers out there that do not care if they waste your time. I would not look at this as him being too busy. I would look at this as him not wanting to give away his time
How many of you would spend your time driving out to someplace, looking around, just to give someone a price for absolutely no money?
We’ll do a rough ballpark/off the top of our heads/based on a recent project estimate for free. The accuracy is so-so, give or take 10%… and barring any major deviation (e.g. we price it based on average windows we typically source, but you go picking a high-end window, the difference is likely going to be more than 10%) If you can live with that, great. If not, my company charges $175-250 for an estimate for a customer. Why? Because we’re in high demand… and we’re vetting our customers: are you going to waste hours of my time because you’re just fishing for a number? Or because you want to actually get us to do the work?
Now, big caveat to all this: we CREDIT that fee to the prospective client IF they end up hiring us.
But yeah: our owners are actually out there in the field working along side the crew. And the crew labor is billable at $95/hr. The owners/specialty crew are billable at an even higher rate.
So, let’s do a little exercise for the sake of argument: If I assume I can account for the time it takes to drive to your house, take ALL the measurements I need for the project, document with photos, converse with you to pin down exactly what finishes and style of window you want and drive back to the office in just one hour… and then assume I can enter all the info I just collected into our system (so all team members can access it should it move forward), make calls to the respective vendors for quotes, calculate labor hours for the types of windows you’ve ordered plus whatever additional materials will be needed to do the install, collect and follow up with - IF necessary - the aforementioned vendors and compile the various quotes they return to me and format that all into a deliverable estimate for you in just an hour…. That’s 2 hours of time, worth $190 at $95/hr, in my book. Why? Because that’s $95/hr that COULD be being earned out on site. So, yeah. And considering it’s likely everything I listed would likely take longer than ‘just an hour’, $200 sounds just about right.
>Additionally, he never mentioned anything about a cost for an estimate until he'd blown me off for the 4th time in a row and I called him out for it. Then suddenly the estimate was a big waste of his time and it would be unfair not to be compensated for it.
he doesn't want the job. Why force it on him. You will pay him for the estimate and I can almost guarantee it won't be competitive, or won't be "complete"
I don't think you have to let him know how it came off. Vote with your dollars and go elsewhere
It's understandable for a customer that hasn't had experience with you. If you are a previous customer (which you are), I can see where he sees it as providing a quote that you will then go shop around to negotiate lower elsewhere. Honestly, I can't blame him.
Some contractors charge, some don’t. It’s that simple.
We generally only charge for estimating larger projects that’ll take up a good chunk of time getting written up etc.; others will charge across the board regardless of the scope. It just depends. If our estimate is accepted then that amount is taken off the total at the end of the job so you’re not actually paying any additional money but I’m also not wasting time working on something for nothing if they go with someone else.
He’s clearly doing it to put you off without actually turning you down for whatever reason, but is it really worth going back at him to point out his lack of professionalism or is it better to just walk away and be done with him completely?
He has every right and also most contractors when you start to progress with the project wave it off. It's to weed out the people wasting their time.
Compare it to a realtor wanting to sign a 6 month commitment so they don't do all the footwork and then buy with their cousin.
So many people waste contractors time by getting quotes and never getting the work done. That hour of work on site doesn’t include time driving there and back, fuel costs, time away from other jobs.
This is such a hard fucking concept for customers to understand lol i love when they compare it to taking their car to the shop. Im just like….read what you just wrote. YOU are taking YOURE car to their shop. I do overhead doors and i tell people that if they could bring their garage/warehouse/shop to me, I could lower the cost of quotes or inspections but you literally cant do that lol
> So many people waste contractors time by getting quotes and never getting the work done.
because they obfuscate pricing behind the quote system
this is window and siding replacement, it could hardly get more standardized. The contractor could easily provide an estimated price range, with a promise for a specific price if selected. The contractor could also accept measurements from the customer to narrow that range down.
# he never mentioned anything about a cost for an estimate until he'd blown me off for the 4th time in a row and I called him out for it
How to say "I don't want to work for you" without saying it?
“To me, the quote shouldn’t take more than an hour to prepare”. And there is your reason why he’s adding a quotation charge. He’s dealt with people like you before ( as have I)
First question, why are you giving someone who missed three other appointments an opportunity? IMO, for whatever reason they don't want you as a customer. You said this contractor previously did work for you, yet you're shopping the current project? If I have someone that did work for me that I was satisfied with and what I needed was within their wheelhouse, they got the job. Could I have had other people come in and gotten multiple quotes and probably saved some money, sure. However, also search this thread to find out how many people got ghosted by contractors after they gave them a deposit. So, personally I'll pay a couple dollars more for someone that has a proven track record.
He doesn't expect to make enough money on this job to make it worth his while. He just showed you what he truly thinks of you as a customer in a professional way.
I have an odd way of getting contractors. I get a range of what it should cost from Angi or some place like that. I get one bid and I say yes or no. If I say no, 95% of the time they drop their price to within the range. I hire them. It saves a lot of time for both of us.
I got 5 siding quotes, each one came out and measured and assessed. Not one required any compensation for a quote. Thats wild to me. Based on his attitude, I wouldn’t hire him or use him for a quote. He obviously doesn’t want the job.
Contractors should charge for estimates. The free estimate game is an entitled waste. If we are going to push that we get multiple quotes to price hunt, why are we okay with knowing we are fucking one or more companies so we can shop around. Additionally, complaining when a free service isn't immediate under the guise of being "professional" is stupid. Thats my ground gears on that matter.
He is dropping gentle f-offs. They are either super busy or the last job he did for you was more effort than it was worth. Many guys get slammed for firing clients. It triggers people so much harder than driving them off with money. Like, I can give a fuck off price or I can be honest and tell the client that our last job was so god damn miserable that I would never work with them again because... well... fool me once.
Looking at some of the replies in here, would you have taken no for an answer? Like, honestly, if he said "no" would you have said "ok" and moved on or would you have demanded a reason? There is something missing here.
Set your deadlines, if he misses them, then oh no... the compition got the work. Don't lose sleep over it. He doesn't need to offer a price. His terms were $200 for an estimate.
Just keep these in mind when you enter into any negotiations for work around your home: All home sevice contractors are crooks. Always get an estimate in writing. If by chance you somehow find an honest contractor (hint: you won't) he, or she will not be offended by you asking for a written estimate. If all they do is write down the final price, without breaking down the estimate, pass on them. Either they are crooked (most likely yes), or they don't know enough about how to do the work to prepare a good estimate. Finally, just remember: all home service contractors are crooks. Cynical, yes, but you'll be much better off for it.
There is nothing unprofessional about charging for a quote. It usually takes a trip to the customers home and then time and effort to put together a reliable quote. If you don't want to have the guy give you a quote, don't. Bit there is nothing 'greasy" or unprofessional about it.
Why do you expect people to work for free?
Yea contractors are tired of wasting time and gas measuring just for you to go to the lowest bidder all contractors should charge a fee no more free estimates
It’s funny hearing some of you complain. That guy had to make time in his day, drive there, spend time getting the correct pricing, knowing permits etc etc
But it should be free right? He’s probably good at what he does and is over booked. You are also probably mildly annoying and he doesn’t wanna deal with it.
Yeah the problem- estimate. Get a reliable contractor that quotes. Estimates change. Quotes don’t and charging for an estimate is ridiculous for any trade work. Don’t waste your time and money on his crap.
Any prudent homeowner should get multiple quotes. Contractors should understand this is part of the business. If a contractor wants to charge me for the quote, then sayonara. This is a sign of someone who will nickle and dime you.
Man, I get where you're coming from but I wish this kind of behavior wasn't seen as greasy. If anything, this is a way more honest way to do business.
Everyone giving you an estimate for "free" isn't really free. They're just rolling the cost of those hours into your price. And the cost of every other free estimate they gave that didn't turn into a job.
Not uncommon? I've never had a contractor charge for an estimate. Not a roofer, plumber, electrician, framer, handyman, hvac, general contractor, etc, etc.
Don't worry about that guy. Use someone else.
I got quotes for siding on a house I was buying but didn’t own yet, so the companies charged for the initial estimate, $150-$300 for a visit. However that was only as a non-owner, otherwise it would have been free.
So charging you is weird, but the price they are charging does seem reasonable if that makes sense.
I hate going out for estimates because it can be just a waste of time for me. Explaining what the options are, walking with the client, doing all the planning and work to come up with an estimate. Just for the client to ghost me
It definitely would take more than an hour to prepare. Not all estimates are free.
My company does not give free estimates and never will. The boss knows it costs a lot to produce estimates and isn't willing to eat the cost if the client doesn't accept.
Also, 3 windows depending on size can cost $10,000. I don't think you will be able to do this for $12,000. Probably closer to $20,000 or $24,000 depending on area.
He obviously doesn’t want to work for you after past experiences working with you. That said I can’t tell you how many estimates I’ve given just so the client could shop the price. $200 is not unreasonable for an estimate.
We do free estimes. Always have.
The only acceptable way to charge for them is if the cost is applied to the job when signed. Also if contractor has just that much work lined up they can afford to be choosy.
Most people wouldn’t like it tho I assume.
OP, you have worked together before - he does not like you or want to work for you again.
Take a hint already, and find someone who does'nt yet know how annoying you are.
I've since had to contact other contractors because he didn't pan out (obviously). None of them charge for estimates so I dunno. I think it's a polarizing topic... clearly based on the varying responses.
Contact another contractor. I know some are very busy and don't want to waste their time with free estimates, but plenty will. As a Real Estate professional I get free estimates all the time to help with listings and buyers. However, some things are just not available free, for instance I needed an engineer to come out and inspect/write up recommendation on a structural issues, it cost about $1000.
Don’t use him….. he’s obviously busy and it’s a small job….. he probably already knows he’s going to be higher than his competitors and if you call him it’s going to be to chew him down.
I had this same experience and told them thanks, but no thanks. You're missing out on a shot of at least a 20k job, but that's your choice. Then I called the next on my list.
Time is money and contractors aren't short on work right now so they don't really have much incentive to just give away time.
Honestly sounds like he doesn't really wanna do the work and thats fine. You can tell him hes being unprofessional about it but if he doesn't need the work he probably isn't going to care much.
Basically this seems like a waste of energy for you.
You’re paying for an estimate either way dude! Driving to your place, measuring, driving back isn’t free and there’s only a 25% chance of getting the job, multiply it by 4. You’re getting billed for it regardless, you just don’t like the structure.
This is totally acceptable and actually cheap. You have to remember that they are putting in their time, inspecting the situation. Inspection fees are more expensive. Estimate fees are waived generally if you do decide to use that contractor to do the job
Don't overthink it. If he's charging for an estimate, and you don't want to pay it, then move on. Why focus your time and energy on trying to figure out what this one random contractor is doing?
Nothing greasy about it, he just clearly doesn't need your business and doesn't want to waste his time. Simply go on to the next contractor, I'm sure there are plenty who want the work
First, unless your windows are small, I’d say $12k is very low. And the one hour for the bid is low. Closer to 2-3, like you said by the time they get the prices for windows, trim, etc. Now most contractors don’t “charge” an up front fee like this one, but they will add a higher % on the end of the job to cover it.
I NEVER pay for an estimate upfront. Anyone asking me to do that can fuck right off. This is part of their sales activity and cost of doing business.
It’s on them to either bury that cost inside the quoted cost or provide a lower price to be more competitive.
This is a "go away" tactic. You've either had them not do work they've quoted in the past or they are too busy.
Quotes should be free unless you live far out of town or something like that.
I would charge for a estimate and give it back as credit towards job if job is contracted with me. He is probably like every other good contractor and has a book of work already and cuts out the riff raff jobs by charging for his estimates and time. The fact that he has worked for you before and doesn’t seem interested is likely because your a PITA. Just being honest. He knows he isn’t getting the job. He is going to be under bid. I don’t do estimates for jobs I don’t think I have a chance if getting or people I am not interested in doing work for. My time is money.
I have been doing estimates and pricing construction projects for 30 years. Plus sales and project management. I go where the money is. That’s just the way it is. Have to make it when you can.
In various forums I've heard contractors complain that they give many estimates that result in no sale.
They're rightly frustrated. My take is that this is just part of the cost of doing business.
1 - Some contractors seem to handle things exactly that way.
2 - But some have so much business that they don't have time to estimate a job. They just ghost you.
3 - Others in the same situation will charge for doing an estimate. They make a buck even if you don't buy in.
I wouldn't use a contractor who falls into category 2 or 3.
I am unable to deal with #2 because he doesn't respond.
I treat #3 as off limits because he's too busy.
He'll offer a grossly inflated estimate, which I'll reject. Why pay for an inflated estimate?
#3 was common during the pandemic. It was hard to get contractors ... or even handymen!
Demand was through the roof, and they were charging outrageous prices.
They'd take any job where the buyer was willing to pay a crazy high price.
I see no justification for the #3 contractor. Covid is gone and demand is down.
I worked for a company that charged for estimates that was only $20. The reason that we did that was for legitimate inquiries. The cost of the estimate was deducted if you signed the contract.
10 years ago... Sure it was fine to give out free quotes.
Now, home owners use these quotes against each other or even take the bill of materials and use that for their own DIY.
Making up an accurate quote for window replacement is 4 hrs of work plus travel time.
1 hr on site measuring the windows and 3 hrs of spreadsheet work, estimating window cost and installation costs how much scaffolding is needed? How many men and how many hrs to install? Is the trim going to be painted and supplied by customer? Are the window frames ok? Is the siding going to be cut back? How much furniture to move? Who's taking down and installing blinds or curtains etc?
Is this a 300k house or 3 million house... It matters for cleanup. Do I need to put down floor protectors and dust curtains?
Do I need to crane the windows in?
If you answer all of that for me.... I'll give you a quote for $50.
He doesn't want the job. If you pay him for the time, you'll probably be looking at a long wait to start or a fuck off quote way higher than the others. He might be the best (or at least the most booked), but probably has scaled up to bigger jobs and doesn't want to deal with yours unless the price is right.
Chiming in as a retired contractor
After a hurricane hit my area, all insurance companies required multiple quotes before making payouts. I absolutely charged for quotes because I knew I couldn't even do 5% of the jobs that I was quoting. And I told the folks that up front. They were so damn grateful that $200 of my time would enable them to submit their insurance claim.
Your guy may think you are using him to price check the job? Maybe he has his schedule full and this is an easy couple hundred he can make while the boys are busy. Your gut is probably right. I personally wasted so many hours providing free quotes and later discovered I never had a shot at the work due to:
a) Client turned out to have a brother-in-law just starting out as a handyman and client wanted to be sure that brother-in-law had a clue.
B) architect needed to provide client with three quotes, but had his favorite.
C) client went with quote that was below material costs and later asked me to finish the job (o hell No)
D)family expecting me to do free/cheap work. Umm., I have guys to pay?
I think I may have ptsd...
Having said that, any upfront fee was always deducted from the final invoice when we did the work.
Sorry but he's right.
People get paid to do work. This involved a couple hours of his time, and he wants to be paid for it.
You're not committing to using him, so there's no reason for him to work for free, only to have you then just hire the cheapest person.
I'm sure if you go with him that fee is applied to your job.
It's no different than the car repair place charging an hour of diagnostic time before you have them do work, or an attorney or accountant charging you for a one hour consultation.
If this is someone reliable that you've had a good past experience with, you should have just called him first. He would have gladly given you a price and done a great job, but when you made him feel like you invited 5 brides to the wedding and would make your choice when they walk down the aisle he moved on to more sure things.
Architect here, I work with contractors and estimates all the time. It's time consuming, but part of the job, and none of them here ask for compensation for a bid - especially on a rather minor project like that. I wouldn't even deal with him anymore, he's showing a real disinterest in your project, so I'd just let it go and concentrate on the others you have received.
As a homeowner, if someone charged for a quote where others don't, AND I have to track the guy down, I'd accept the L and move onto another company. Clearly his work ethic and my own don't align and he clearly doesn't want the job. I would not respond to him or take time and effort to tell him off. Simply move on, keep a note for myself and not use him in the future. I don't get the reason for wanting to tell him off just because you didn't get what you wanted from him.
As a contractor, people waste your time quite a bit kicking tires. If you have a good reputation and do good work it’s not unheard of to charge a fee on a quote and deduct it from the price of the contract if the customer chooses you for the job.
Do it all handymen and unlicensed side iobbers have devalued labor. You’re inviting a professional to your home to use their expertise in giving you accurate bid.
Would you spend 2 hours at your job doing work and then maybe get paid if your boss likes the idea you came up with best?
I personally offer a ballpark price over phone/email if I could get a customer to do some basic measurements and send me photos.
He does not want the job. Let it go.
Also, don't recommend him to others. If others ask you for a reference, tell them that he did some good work for you but then became unreliable.
He’s worked for you before but you’re still getting other quotes. I could understand why he’s charging you. You’re not driven by the quality of his work, but the lowest price. So what’s his incentive when he might have other loyal customers? I bet he’d rather spend his time on them.
Does the estimate fee get applied as a credit if do go ahead with him? Sounds as though he is plenty busy that can be picky with his estimates, which in all honestly is not a bad thing as it means he’s very busy, priced right and/or good work.
Having once paid for an estimate on something, I never go with anyone who asks for that now. I estimate construction for a living and we don't charge the clients to put together a proposal. Residential trade work is the only spot where contractors straight up try to rip off the client.
yeah and after paying for the estimate, you are going to get the "fuck you" price. and his crew gets lunch on you because you paid for his estimate that is going to be insanely high.
Some contractors will charge a fee for a quote as not every quote gets a job and they will waste their time. What nobody wants to do is make a detailed quote for the customer to take to a nobody and say buy this and do it for less. The quote fee is a test if you’re actually committed to doing the work. He has enough work to justify the fee to keep away the jokers.
Everyone here is right but just fyi: I charge 1500 for a custom home cost analysis. That’s an in depth estimate with many subs for homes in the 4-10million dollar range.
He doesn't want to work with you. I work independently for a few contractors, helping with admin work. If they don't like a customer, they'll charge them absurd amounts or for weird things so that the customer doesn't bother with them anymore. Consider yourself fired as a client.
If you like the work he's done in the past and he gave you a good price then, I would go ahead and eat the $200 for the estimate especially if you lean toward using him again. $200 is 1.67% of the total price based on a $12,000 estimate. I'd offer to send the quotes from the other competitors of course with everything blanked out to protect identities and see what he says from that point.
If you want to get multiple quotes, that's fine. But he's busy, and doesn't want to work for free on a 1 in 4 chance of getting the job.
200 not much, and 12 grand is. If he rushes through his estimate and gets something wrong, that's potentially big money for him. I take a really long time with estimates/quotes for that reason. The advice to get three quotes is very homeowner friendly, but it's very contractor unfriendly. You do what you want, he'll do what he wants, and if they line up you can work together.
So either take a chance on the new people, trust the guy you've already worked with, or pay the guy you've already worked with to do an estimate. Maybe you could ask him if he 200 bucks can come off the total bill.
For perspective, this is 1.6 percent of your total bill. If a customer kicks up a fuss over an estimate costing 1.6 percent of a job, I'm leaving them to deal with that fuss.
Guy doesn't deserve the time you took to post, and obviously doesn't want your business. I can't imagine a situation where I'd be willing to pay for a quote. That's just not how it works.
You definitely want to find someone else who isn’t experienced enough to know the value of their time and knowledge.
If you’re not ready to spend $200 for them to figure out your project the contractor has proven you’re a waste of his time.
Gas isn't free, administrative services aren't free and time isn't free...for some reason people feel entitled to these things for free, and yes some people are dumb enough to do it...but you shouldn't expect it...$200 is pretty reasonable
It probably cost $50 in fuel alone just for the round trip if he's driving a work truck to your location
The economy has been rubbing most small business owners the wrong way, some are able to hide it better than others
I don’t charge for estimates
Yet
But it gets crazy, running around giving “free” estimates
Even a simple estimate cost 2 hours, that’s $250 worth of time
To hear the customer say, ok thank you
Then nothing
Putting a price together takes time, resources and knowledge. I don’t do anymore “pricing” for free just so you can turn around and lower someone else’s price. Take it or leave it. Never work for free.
Depends on the house and where you live but it could be that they need to get on the roof - which means setting up a safety harness, and then you need a second person to meet insurance and safety requirements...
Which of these comments are coming from actual successful business owners? This isn't a fuck off, a screw you or even a "I don't want the job" tactic.
If someone owns a business known for quality work, their time is really valuable. If the quote is going divert an hour or two of this person's time in a "bidding" situation, then it's perfectly reasonable to request payment for time.
Contractors are usually running everything and may not have a "front desk person" to call you back. They're probably running the whole damn show...ordering materials, planning jobs, payroll, phone calls, crew scheduling, taxes.....putting out fires all over the place. These kind of people aren't railroading you, they're surviving.
Measuring 3 windows, pricing siding, estimating labor IS work. Anyone willing to work for free sucks.
You go try to measure the windows, price siding, and estimate the labor- see how long it takes.
I Give free estimates. Call more people. Remember some companies will send a salesperson to to give you a free general estimate! You sign papers, company adds whatever! Never pay more than half up front. Get an exact -ish list of materials order yourself to avoid fees they will try charging aquiring it themselves.
Ok, list goes on. This coming from a lifelong contractor .Free or nevermind.
You’re getting the “fuck off, I’m too busy” price.
It's also a bit of a kick in the nuts to be told, after doing several projects together in the past, that you are going to shop bids on a small project like this. If you felt pricing was unfair in the past, then find someone new. Otherwise, the homeowner is just being an ass.
12k isn't a small project for the average homeowner.
But it is for contractors.
I used to work at a place in a field service role that also was a supply house and during a significant downturn one of my new job duties became hitting up places that used to order from us but didn’t anymore. I stopped by one contractors office and got to chatting and gave him my little speech and the dude told me he’d burn his building down before he ever gave my boss another dollar. Apparently they used to do a decent amount of business through us, but as the industry expanded and bigger customers came in this guy started getting knocked down the priority list to the point that he’d have to wait a week or more for his orders and if we had to order something in we made him pay upfront. He was pissed. Said that he was a good enough customer for us when we needed him but when bigger fish came along we left him out in the cold, and now that we were struggling here we came, crawling back trying to put our relationship back together.
Nah. We expect people to get multiple quotes. You’d have to be an idiot not to.
He did one job for me. One.
Use someone other than him then. He may not like you
If you listen, people will reveal themselves. The contractor is saying, "fuck you, your business doesn't mean shit to me" (shhhh can't you hear it?)
And that could be for several reasons. The two main ones are 1, the contractor thinks a 12k job is beneath him and has better things to do or 2, the customer is a pain in the ass to work with and the job isn't worth it.
Either that or, you were a pain in my ass and I don't want to work with you again? Either way, I'd just move along, a message is a message.
bullshit, dude. Sometimes you're just considering a project, and you don't know if you can afford it, and you need an estimate.
The homeowner isn't your friend. They are the individual(s) that you are being contracted to do work for. That being said, be friendly and nice. But we all know if one party or the other messes up, its the courts that end up getting dragged in. One can be friendly and professional. If you take offense, probably time to take a look in mirror and ask why.
You hit the nail on the head. Contractor pun intended.
Why are you even considering this? Guy clearly doesn’t want your business.
He either has more than enough work to feed himself and his employees, there may be something like op's location isn't ideal due to distance or he doesn't have the workers or who knows, I agree, he doesn't want to do it. Doesn't want to burn a bridge for future work? Doesn't matter, those are his terms, you get to choose who you hire.
This is the “I’m too busy but if you really really want me to” price. We have a local residential contractor like this. They Are Good! You want him to divert time to bid a job 18-24 months wait (current time line) it gonna cost you AND you still have to wait your turn.
He's saying he knows the he will charge more for the work than other contractors and you won't use him anyway.
I would move on to another contractor.
That's the hope
He is the best contractor in the area.
No, the best contractor in the area would have his office person return the call right away and say - I'm so sorry, but we are fully booked until October. If you are still in need of our services, we'd be happy to visit and give you an estimate in August. Blowing people off and charging for estimates is just rude and arrogant.
No, it isn't. It's his way of doing business. There is nothing wrong with charging for estimates, it's just most people don't do it.
Came to say just this.
Why is that, if he's going to spend his and other employees time putting a quote together for you to shop it around , why shouldn't he charge for that, his car isn't free, fuel isn't free, ins. Isn't free, his employees don't work for free, his rent isn't free, while he's quoting you he could be quoting or signing contracts with another, time us money, I am sure the $200 is credited should he be the chosen contractor or if he uses his quote to get a better price then time was not wasted completely.
I think this is a situation where the contractor doesn't want to work with this customer, but submitting bids to compete for work is part of the job. Its just a cost that you have to deal with as a contractor. Customers should be getting a few bids for jobs like this and most trades provide free quoting as a courtesy. I also don't have a problem with charging for quotes for any number of reasons. If you get too many looky loos wasting your time, charging for quotes is a great way to separate people who are serious. I've had general contractors put out for bids when I have no actual chance of winning and that pisses me off. I've had GC's that self perform my trade use my number in their bids... I don't bid to them anymore. I try to avoid GC's that will take my bid and use it to negotiate with another subcontractor instead of just hiring my company...
I have dealt with all that as well, I honestly have no problem if someone wants to charge a reasonable amount .
If you want to earn someone’s business, you don’t charge for a quote and you explain to your potential customer why they should hire you. When you don’t want someone’s business, you blow them off multiple times, and when pressed to give a quote you charge for that quote. OP may have been a pain in the ass client previously, or this contractor just doesn’t know how to say “I’m too busy/too wealthy/too bothered” to want the business.
And that $200 quote will have a PITA surcharge. I’ve written those quotes. This contractor doesn’t want to take you on as a client. Take the hint and find another contractor.
Part of me thinks being blown off 4 times is more about OP not taking the hint now.
if you're drowning in business, then this can be a polite no
So if every contractor charged 200 for a quote, it would cost the customer $600 dollars to get 3 estimates to find out if a job is even feasible or not. And then the contractors that give free estimates would be the only ones competing for jobs. Oh that’s right, that’s how it works now.
$400. You apply the fee if contract is accepted. And yeah, that's how most businesses work. Mechanics charge you for diagnosing for example. You pay it anyways. Free estimates are rolled into the quote and you're subsidizing the people who get a bunch of quotes for everything. Paying for quotes is cheaper for most of the people and saves the contractors a lot of trash bids. Only window shoppers get screwed in that system.
Because if you have 3 contractors and one says before I look at anything I need 200$ and the others don’t do that guess who’s not getting hired?
And that is his choice . He's either been burned by having his quotes shopped, or as others have said maybe his previous projects with this person were less than pleasant and he's not all that interested.
I charge for estimates and have no issue getting work. I do give them a credit towards the bill if they move forward. If they don’t I keep it for my time and expertise. This gets rid of the tire kickers and my time is just as valuable as anyone else’s.
You're also probably good at what you do, established in your field, and getting referrals, so this works for you. For someone new to the business, charging for quoting is probably not a good idea.
Providing estimates is part of your overhead
> Why is that, if he's going to spend his and other employees time putting a quote together for you to shop it around , why shouldn't he charge for that, his car isn't free, fuel isn't free, ins This is known as "The cost of doing business" Why doesn't OP pay for his clothes he wears to work too? He can't show up naked! OP should at least have to buy him lunch too for even calling and asking about getting an estimate. The time he spent on the phone with him isn't free!
He doesn’t want to do the job. Take the hint
This is someone you've dealt with before? Have you considered that maybe you are being soft fired as a client? If I had a client that I wasn't interested in doing business with again repeatedly blowing them off and charging for things I normally wouldn't are things that I might do as hints to avoid the awkward break up conversation. How have past projects gone with this contractor? Change orders impacting schedule? Payment issues? Disagreement on expectations?
Sounds like your a pain in the ass and the contractor does not really want your business , I would suggest using someone else
The "I don't like you" tax lol
This. A contractor isn't going to jump through hoops to do a quote for a 12k job when upfront you are telling them you are getting multiple quotes. The guy is getting the memo that you are going to shop for the lowest price and he doesn't want to compete that way. Nothing wrong with either side of it, but he just doesn't want to spend the time for a 25% chance of getting a job that has a few thousand in margin in it at best. Keep in mind, he has to drive there and back, take measurements, get multiple quotes, and then provide it to you. That is more than an hour and I would wager you are going to demand that the estimate be firm.
I have always been upfront with contractors i am getting multiple quotes on every job we get done. I have never been charged for an estimate--in fact most advertise free estimates. Getting at least three quotes for any job, no matter how big or small, is generally good practice. It may differ by area, but in mine if they think you don't know how much is standard then they tend to upcharge you. Also costs vary widely. And quotes are not just about cost. Things like material options, timeframe, and other ancillary factors contribute to who you choose to use. I just wouldn't ever call this guy again for a project.
The market has changed. A free estimate is given by a salesperson in construction.
As someone who has worked in an industry where people get multiple quotes I don’t mind it as a practice, but there are some definite exceptions: Your primary focus is getting the lowest price. Now I get it, it’s your money and things are tighter than they’ve been in decades, but I also know I will be undercut by bottom of the barrel companies. If it’s clear to me that is what you want, it’s not worth my time to give you a free quote. You’re planning to try and leverage the quotes against each other. I’m not lowering my price because Bob quoted you a lower rate, and I don’t want to give you ammunition to do the same thing against Dave. If I get the impression that you are in either of those camps, there’s a good chance we’ll give you a back of the napkin range without a formal written quote, or just decline to do it at all. Also in OPs case specifically: > but this one, who's actually done work for me before We put a ton of effort into delivering high quality service, to the point where ~65% of our customers are repeat or referrals. If someone had used us before and is still shopping around for multiple quotes, we don’t especially want their business. I don’t ever want to do a job where the customer isn’t thrilled with the outcome, and clearly that person wasn’t. No reason to knowingly fail twice.
Fair. I know i don't usually go with the lowest bids just because they are lowest--usually i end up some where in the middle due to what's offered for that cost. And generally i don't get additional quotes if they've done good work so that point is spot on. I think for me the big exception to the "we've done with before" sense to be tree companies. I seem to always get great work the first time, and the second time they double the price. And we're (i like to think) pretty chill to work for.
That's absolutely fair, and if we doubled someone's price I'd expect them to shop around too. The last year or two it seems people are looking for an opportunity to absolutely gouge and blame everyone/everything else.
So don’t tell the contractor he’s not shopping for the lowest quote and he’s good right?
We call PITAS.
Being blown off 4 times… OP take the hint. You did something to really bother this guy.
>I'm asking because I want to let him know that it came off kind of unprofessional but I wanted to hear some thoughts first? The cost for an estimate as well, together with his attitude, really rubbed me the wrong way. You let him know with your money, not your words.
Yeah, that guy doesn't give a shit if you think it was unprofessional... He doesn't want you as a customer.
OP, you have worked together before - he does not like you or want to work for you again. Take a hint already, and find someone who does'nt yet know how annoying you are.
He has every right to charge for his time. You have every right to decline to do business with him. Doesn’t seem like a problem that needs correcting, just move on.
He blew you off and didn't show up to do the estimate 4 times? Drop him. Four tries is more than I would give anyone.
He keeps blowing you off. Why do you want to work with him? I have not found it to be common for a contractor on a smaller job like this to charge for quotes, but certain industries have moved that direction. Lumber yards used to do free takeoffs for lumber packages, but I guess too many people were taking the quotes and using them to cross shop with other suppliers. Also, I think they've started outsourcing their takeoffs. As a result they started charging for them. It doesn't really apply in this case, but for lumber, for example, if I pay for a takeoff, I'm not going to feel bad taking that quote around to other suppliers to try to find the best deal.
As somebody who used to do bid/estimate based project work I eventually got to the point where I started charging for bids. There were several drivers for this: - 90+% of requested bids were not "real", meaning the customer was either budgeting, trying to get a DIY jumpstart, or using it to negotiate with their actual vendor. - out of the 10% that were real, meaning the customer was ready to do the work and was looking for bids for actual work, about 80% would go with whomever's bid was cheapest. I was *never* the cheapest bid, but I was always the best overall value (IMHO). - so, out of each 100 bid requests there were roughly 90 that were not real, 8 that would go with the cheapest, and two who would weigh quality, reputation, and references. - I would, however, do no-cost bids for existing customers who were familiar with the quality of my work and business ethics - UNLESS that customer was a micro-managing, nit-picking, never-happy, discount-whining, endless-punchlisting asshole. - for known assholes, they'd get the Asshole Tax - slow response, increased up front bid cost, and a labor estimate padded out to deal with their BS. - about half the time I'd lose them as a customer, but the other half would typically go with somebody else, deal with the sadly prevalent sleazy nature of many contractors, then come back to me understanding that my 25% higher bid came with 99% less hassle and risk. So, I learned that there are people who pinch pennies and make service workers jump through hoops as a kind of sport, and for them success does not equate with getting hassle-free, quality work done at a fair price, for them success equates to making contractors jump around like puppets until they feel they've gotten their money's worth of petty tyranny. I'm not suggesting you are or aren't like this because I don't know your circumstances, but I wanted to share the perspective of someone on the other side who was honest and scrupulous and always strived to provide good work at a fair price. If I constantly gave away free estimates to people who weren't serious then I'd have to recoup that time/money by overcharging my other customers. Also note, this may be obvious, but many low-bidder contractors will either a) cut corners or b) come up with unexpected cost overruns, making their "low bid" a mirage.
@engineerboy00 know his stuff If this contractor charges $200 for a bid he knows he isn’t the cheapest and probably does good work. If that’s what you want then you dont mind paying $200 for his time. If you want the cheapest bid then dont pay him. I always warn my customers that the lowest bid never ends up being the cheapest. Either with change orders or having to pay someone else to come in a fix the cheapest work.
Asshole tax IMO
Don’t hire anyone who doesn’t show up- for anything including a quote. It’s not a good sign. Next time don’t tell them you are getting multiple quotes.
It's starting to become more and more common simply because of the time it takes to drive out there, the wear and tear on the vehicle and so on and so forth. However that money is applied towards the job if you choose to do it There's just too many Price shoppers out there that do not care if they waste your time. I would not look at this as him being too busy. I would look at this as him not wanting to give away his time How many of you would spend your time driving out to someplace, looking around, just to give someone a price for absolutely no money?
We’ll do a rough ballpark/off the top of our heads/based on a recent project estimate for free. The accuracy is so-so, give or take 10%… and barring any major deviation (e.g. we price it based on average windows we typically source, but you go picking a high-end window, the difference is likely going to be more than 10%) If you can live with that, great. If not, my company charges $175-250 for an estimate for a customer. Why? Because we’re in high demand… and we’re vetting our customers: are you going to waste hours of my time because you’re just fishing for a number? Or because you want to actually get us to do the work? Now, big caveat to all this: we CREDIT that fee to the prospective client IF they end up hiring us. But yeah: our owners are actually out there in the field working along side the crew. And the crew labor is billable at $95/hr. The owners/specialty crew are billable at an even higher rate. So, let’s do a little exercise for the sake of argument: If I assume I can account for the time it takes to drive to your house, take ALL the measurements I need for the project, document with photos, converse with you to pin down exactly what finishes and style of window you want and drive back to the office in just one hour… and then assume I can enter all the info I just collected into our system (so all team members can access it should it move forward), make calls to the respective vendors for quotes, calculate labor hours for the types of windows you’ve ordered plus whatever additional materials will be needed to do the install, collect and follow up with - IF necessary - the aforementioned vendors and compile the various quotes they return to me and format that all into a deliverable estimate for you in just an hour…. That’s 2 hours of time, worth $190 at $95/hr, in my book. Why? Because that’s $95/hr that COULD be being earned out on site. So, yeah. And considering it’s likely everything I listed would likely take longer than ‘just an hour’, $200 sounds just about right.
>Additionally, he never mentioned anything about a cost for an estimate until he'd blown me off for the 4th time in a row and I called him out for it. Then suddenly the estimate was a big waste of his time and it would be unfair not to be compensated for it. he doesn't want the job. Why force it on him. You will pay him for the estimate and I can almost guarantee it won't be competitive, or won't be "complete" I don't think you have to let him know how it came off. Vote with your dollars and go elsewhere
It's understandable for a customer that hasn't had experience with you. If you are a previous customer (which you are), I can see where he sees it as providing a quote that you will then go shop around to negotiate lower elsewhere. Honestly, I can't blame him.
Some contractors charge, some don’t. It’s that simple. We generally only charge for estimating larger projects that’ll take up a good chunk of time getting written up etc.; others will charge across the board regardless of the scope. It just depends. If our estimate is accepted then that amount is taken off the total at the end of the job so you’re not actually paying any additional money but I’m also not wasting time working on something for nothing if they go with someone else. He’s clearly doing it to put you off without actually turning you down for whatever reason, but is it really worth going back at him to point out his lack of professionalism or is it better to just walk away and be done with him completely?
That is their way of saying I don't want to do the work, lol.
Sorry OP but considering he has done work for you before, you probably aren’t on the top of his VIP client list.
He doesn't want to do the work, can't you tell? Move on to the contractors that want to give you a bid. They may actually want to do the work.
He has every right and also most contractors when you start to progress with the project wave it off. It's to weed out the people wasting their time. Compare it to a realtor wanting to sign a 6 month commitment so they don't do all the footwork and then buy with their cousin.
I had a contractor say this and I told them forget it. They called me back later that day saying they’d agree to waive the fee. I passed anyway
So many people waste contractors time by getting quotes and never getting the work done. That hour of work on site doesn’t include time driving there and back, fuel costs, time away from other jobs.
This is such a hard fucking concept for customers to understand lol i love when they compare it to taking their car to the shop. Im just like….read what you just wrote. YOU are taking YOURE car to their shop. I do overhead doors and i tell people that if they could bring their garage/warehouse/shop to me, I could lower the cost of quotes or inspections but you literally cant do that lol
> So many people waste contractors time by getting quotes and never getting the work done. because they obfuscate pricing behind the quote system this is window and siding replacement, it could hardly get more standardized. The contractor could easily provide an estimated price range, with a promise for a specific price if selected. The contractor could also accept measurements from the customer to narrow that range down.
# he never mentioned anything about a cost for an estimate until he'd blown me off for the 4th time in a row and I called him out for it How to say "I don't want to work for you" without saying it?
He's rubbing you the wrong way for a reason. Accept it and find someone else or pay for the estimate.
“To me, the quote shouldn’t take more than an hour to prepare”. And there is your reason why he’s adding a quotation charge. He’s dealt with people like you before ( as have I)
First question, why are you giving someone who missed three other appointments an opportunity? IMO, for whatever reason they don't want you as a customer. You said this contractor previously did work for you, yet you're shopping the current project? If I have someone that did work for me that I was satisfied with and what I needed was within their wheelhouse, they got the job. Could I have had other people come in and gotten multiple quotes and probably saved some money, sure. However, also search this thread to find out how many people got ghosted by contractors after they gave them a deposit. So, personally I'll pay a couple dollars more for someone that has a proven track record.
I have to get 2 quotes to apply for a heritage grant. That's the only reason. And I told him that. So he'd have 1 other competitor.
Well than he can go kick rocks and mostly lose the sale.
He doesn't expect to make enough money on this job to make it worth his while. He just showed you what he truly thinks of you as a customer in a professional way.
I'd actually have considered him telling me that truth much more professional.
Standard I'm booked for the next 4 months rate. Your job might not make it on this year's schedule.
I have an odd way of getting contractors. I get a range of what it should cost from Angi or some place like that. I get one bid and I say yes or no. If I say no, 95% of the time they drop their price to within the range. I hire them. It saves a lot of time for both of us.
Don't tell him anything. Just use someone else to do the job.
We have projects go out for bid for millions every week. None of those companies charge for an estimate that takes a week or two. FYI
He doesn't want your business. Why persist? If he wanted your business, he wouldn't be brushing you off or demanding payment for a quote
I got 5 siding quotes, each one came out and measured and assessed. Not one required any compensation for a quote. Thats wild to me. Based on his attitude, I wouldn’t hire him or use him for a quote. He obviously doesn’t want the job.
Contractors should charge for estimates. The free estimate game is an entitled waste. If we are going to push that we get multiple quotes to price hunt, why are we okay with knowing we are fucking one or more companies so we can shop around. Additionally, complaining when a free service isn't immediate under the guise of being "professional" is stupid. Thats my ground gears on that matter. He is dropping gentle f-offs. They are either super busy or the last job he did for you was more effort than it was worth. Many guys get slammed for firing clients. It triggers people so much harder than driving them off with money. Like, I can give a fuck off price or I can be honest and tell the client that our last job was so god damn miserable that I would never work with them again because... well... fool me once. Looking at some of the replies in here, would you have taken no for an answer? Like, honestly, if he said "no" would you have said "ok" and moved on or would you have demanded a reason? There is something missing here. Set your deadlines, if he misses them, then oh no... the compition got the work. Don't lose sleep over it. He doesn't need to offer a price. His terms were $200 for an estimate.
Just keep these in mind when you enter into any negotiations for work around your home: All home sevice contractors are crooks. Always get an estimate in writing. If by chance you somehow find an honest contractor (hint: you won't) he, or she will not be offended by you asking for a written estimate. If all they do is write down the final price, without breaking down the estimate, pass on them. Either they are crooked (most likely yes), or they don't know enough about how to do the work to prepare a good estimate. Finally, just remember: all home service contractors are crooks. Cynical, yes, but you'll be much better off for it.
Maybe he doesn’t want to work with you again and this is his way of saying that without actually saying that.
You can always count on the [hypocrisy of contractors](https://postimg.cc/bGGqkVyC)
There is nothing unprofessional about charging for a quote. It usually takes a trip to the customers home and then time and effort to put together a reliable quote. If you don't want to have the guy give you a quote, don't. Bit there is nothing 'greasy" or unprofessional about it. Why do you expect people to work for free?
Yea contractors are tired of wasting time and gas measuring just for you to go to the lowest bidder all contractors should charge a fee no more free estimates
It’s a don’t waste my time charge
It’s funny hearing some of you complain. That guy had to make time in his day, drive there, spend time getting the correct pricing, knowing permits etc etc But it should be free right? He’s probably good at what he does and is over booked. You are also probably mildly annoying and he doesn’t wanna deal with it.
Yeah the problem- estimate. Get a reliable contractor that quotes. Estimates change. Quotes don’t and charging for an estimate is ridiculous for any trade work. Don’t waste your time and money on his crap.
You were a fucking pain in the ass to do work for so he’s telling you “I’ll do it but I’m charging what it takes to deal with you”
Ridiculous
Any prudent homeowner should get multiple quotes. Contractors should understand this is part of the business. If a contractor wants to charge me for the quote, then sayonara. This is a sign of someone who will nickle and dime you.
Man, I get where you're coming from but I wish this kind of behavior wasn't seen as greasy. If anything, this is a way more honest way to do business. Everyone giving you an estimate for "free" isn't really free. They're just rolling the cost of those hours into your price. And the cost of every other free estimate they gave that didn't turn into a job.
Fuck him! That's some bullshit!
Not uncommon? I've never had a contractor charge for an estimate. Not a roofer, plumber, electrician, framer, handyman, hvac, general contractor, etc, etc. Don't worry about that guy. Use someone else.
I got quotes for siding on a house I was buying but didn’t own yet, so the companies charged for the initial estimate, $150-$300 for a visit. However that was only as a non-owner, otherwise it would have been free. So charging you is weird, but the price they are charging does seem reasonable if that makes sense.
I hate going out for estimates because it can be just a waste of time for me. Explaining what the options are, walking with the client, doing all the planning and work to come up with an estimate. Just for the client to ghost me
Maybe he knew you're getting quotes and could be wasting his time. If you go with him,he may take that cost off the price
One thing that I learned as a home owner is ALL, and i mean ALL contractors are greedy scum bags.
It definitely would take more than an hour to prepare. Not all estimates are free. My company does not give free estimates and never will. The boss knows it costs a lot to produce estimates and isn't willing to eat the cost if the client doesn't accept. Also, 3 windows depending on size can cost $10,000. I don't think you will be able to do this for $12,000. Probably closer to $20,000 or $24,000 depending on area.
Just say 'thanks, I'm going in a different direction' and be done. A job that starts bad ends bad, guaranteed.
He obviously doesn’t want to work for you after past experiences working with you. That said I can’t tell you how many estimates I’ve given just so the client could shop the price. $200 is not unreasonable for an estimate.
We do free estimes. Always have. The only acceptable way to charge for them is if the cost is applied to the job when signed. Also if contractor has just that much work lined up they can afford to be choosy. Most people wouldn’t like it tho I assume.
OP, you have worked together before - he does not like you or want to work for you again. Take a hint already, and find someone who does'nt yet know how annoying you are.
So, the contractor and his team should work for free is what you are saying? Something is greasy sure, and it’s not the guy getting paid for his time.
I've since had to contact other contractors because he didn't pan out (obviously). None of them charge for estimates so I dunno. I think it's a polarizing topic... clearly based on the varying responses.
He doesn’t want your business. Move on
Call the next guy on the list
I would happily pay contractors $200 for a quote, assuming that they show up when they say they are and deliver the quote within a few days.
Contact another contractor. I know some are very busy and don't want to waste their time with free estimates, but plenty will. As a Real Estate professional I get free estimates all the time to help with listings and buyers. However, some things are just not available free, for instance I needed an engineer to come out and inspect/write up recommendation on a structural issues, it cost about $1000.
Don’t use him….. he’s obviously busy and it’s a small job….. he probably already knows he’s going to be higher than his competitors and if you call him it’s going to be to chew him down.
I had this same experience and told them thanks, but no thanks. You're missing out on a shot of at least a 20k job, but that's your choice. Then I called the next on my list.
Time is money and contractors aren't short on work right now so they don't really have much incentive to just give away time. Honestly sounds like he doesn't really wanna do the work and thats fine. You can tell him hes being unprofessional about it but if he doesn't need the work he probably isn't going to care much. Basically this seems like a waste of energy for you.
You’re paying for an estimate either way dude! Driving to your place, measuring, driving back isn’t free and there’s only a 25% chance of getting the job, multiply it by 4. You’re getting billed for it regardless, you just don’t like the structure.
This is totally acceptable and actually cheap. You have to remember that they are putting in their time, inspecting the situation. Inspection fees are more expensive. Estimate fees are waived generally if you do decide to use that contractor to do the job
No, thank you.
Don't overthink it. If he's charging for an estimate, and you don't want to pay it, then move on. Why focus your time and energy on trying to figure out what this one random contractor is doing?
I got estimates for roof, windows, siding from 3 companies and none charged an estimate fee
Nothing greasy about it, he just clearly doesn't need your business and doesn't want to waste his time. Simply go on to the next contractor, I'm sure there are plenty who want the work
First, unless your windows are small, I’d say $12k is very low. And the one hour for the bid is low. Closer to 2-3, like you said by the time they get the prices for windows, trim, etc. Now most contractors don’t “charge” an up front fee like this one, but they will add a higher % on the end of the job to cover it.
I NEVER pay for an estimate upfront. Anyone asking me to do that can fuck right off. This is part of their sales activity and cost of doing business. It’s on them to either bury that cost inside the quoted cost or provide a lower price to be more competitive.
This is a "go away" tactic. You've either had them not do work they've quoted in the past or they are too busy. Quotes should be free unless you live far out of town or something like that.
I would charge for a estimate and give it back as credit towards job if job is contracted with me. He is probably like every other good contractor and has a book of work already and cuts out the riff raff jobs by charging for his estimates and time. The fact that he has worked for you before and doesn’t seem interested is likely because your a PITA. Just being honest. He knows he isn’t getting the job. He is going to be under bid. I don’t do estimates for jobs I don’t think I have a chance if getting or people I am not interested in doing work for. My time is money.
You're gonna find that's a pretty standard, I don't want to bid on this project fee.
He knows you're wasting his time but willing to give you a chance to put your money where your mouth is.
I have been doing estimates and pricing construction projects for 30 years. Plus sales and project management. I go where the money is. That’s just the way it is. Have to make it when you can.
In various forums I've heard contractors complain that they give many estimates that result in no sale. They're rightly frustrated. My take is that this is just part of the cost of doing business. 1 - Some contractors seem to handle things exactly that way. 2 - But some have so much business that they don't have time to estimate a job. They just ghost you. 3 - Others in the same situation will charge for doing an estimate. They make a buck even if you don't buy in. I wouldn't use a contractor who falls into category 2 or 3. I am unable to deal with #2 because he doesn't respond. I treat #3 as off limits because he's too busy. He'll offer a grossly inflated estimate, which I'll reject. Why pay for an inflated estimate? #3 was common during the pandemic. It was hard to get contractors ... or even handymen! Demand was through the roof, and they were charging outrageous prices. They'd take any job where the buyer was willing to pay a crazy high price. I see no justification for the #3 contractor. Covid is gone and demand is down.
Don't use that contractor.
Something to consider. Builders that do home improvements and build. Marketing companies that sell home improvements and subcontract everything.
I worked for a company that charged for estimates that was only $20. The reason that we did that was for legitimate inquiries. The cost of the estimate was deducted if you signed the contract.
10 years ago... Sure it was fine to give out free quotes. Now, home owners use these quotes against each other or even take the bill of materials and use that for their own DIY. Making up an accurate quote for window replacement is 4 hrs of work plus travel time. 1 hr on site measuring the windows and 3 hrs of spreadsheet work, estimating window cost and installation costs how much scaffolding is needed? How many men and how many hrs to install? Is the trim going to be painted and supplied by customer? Are the window frames ok? Is the siding going to be cut back? How much furniture to move? Who's taking down and installing blinds or curtains etc? Is this a 300k house or 3 million house... It matters for cleanup. Do I need to put down floor protectors and dust curtains? Do I need to crane the windows in? If you answer all of that for me.... I'll give you a quote for $50.
"Buh-bye!" ...
He doesn't want the job. If you pay him for the time, you'll probably be looking at a long wait to start or a fuck off quote way higher than the others. He might be the best (or at least the most booked), but probably has scaled up to bigger jobs and doesn't want to deal with yours unless the price is right.
Chiming in as a retired contractor After a hurricane hit my area, all insurance companies required multiple quotes before making payouts. I absolutely charged for quotes because I knew I couldn't even do 5% of the jobs that I was quoting. And I told the folks that up front. They were so damn grateful that $200 of my time would enable them to submit their insurance claim. Your guy may think you are using him to price check the job? Maybe he has his schedule full and this is an easy couple hundred he can make while the boys are busy. Your gut is probably right. I personally wasted so many hours providing free quotes and later discovered I never had a shot at the work due to: a) Client turned out to have a brother-in-law just starting out as a handyman and client wanted to be sure that brother-in-law had a clue. B) architect needed to provide client with three quotes, but had his favorite. C) client went with quote that was below material costs and later asked me to finish the job (o hell No) D)family expecting me to do free/cheap work. Umm., I have guys to pay? I think I may have ptsd... Having said that, any upfront fee was always deducted from the final invoice when we did the work.
Sorry but he's right. People get paid to do work. This involved a couple hours of his time, and he wants to be paid for it. You're not committing to using him, so there's no reason for him to work for free, only to have you then just hire the cheapest person. I'm sure if you go with him that fee is applied to your job. It's no different than the car repair place charging an hour of diagnostic time before you have them do work, or an attorney or accountant charging you for a one hour consultation. If this is someone reliable that you've had a good past experience with, you should have just called him first. He would have gladly given you a price and done a great job, but when you made him feel like you invited 5 brides to the wedding and would make your choice when they walk down the aisle he moved on to more sure things.
He doesnt want the work and is trying to get you to tell him to fuck off.
Architect here, I work with contractors and estimates all the time. It's time consuming, but part of the job, and none of them here ask for compensation for a bid - especially on a rather minor project like that. I wouldn't even deal with him anymore, he's showing a real disinterest in your project, so I'd just let it go and concentrate on the others you have received.
$50 for his time. $150 for knowing what he’s doing. The $200 should be deducted from the total if he does the work.
Keeps the price shoppers at bay. Serious people will pay if hes got a good rep.
That’s fine so many people ask for estimates contractors spend hours doing so and never get the job…
As a homeowner, if someone charged for a quote where others don't, AND I have to track the guy down, I'd accept the L and move onto another company. Clearly his work ethic and my own don't align and he clearly doesn't want the job. I would not respond to him or take time and effort to tell him off. Simply move on, keep a note for myself and not use him in the future. I don't get the reason for wanting to tell him off just because you didn't get what you wanted from him.
Welcome to the contractor world lol. I'd be shocked if that job is only $12k though.
As a contractor, people waste your time quite a bit kicking tires. If you have a good reputation and do good work it’s not unheard of to charge a fee on a quote and deduct it from the price of the contract if the customer chooses you for the job. Do it all handymen and unlicensed side iobbers have devalued labor. You’re inviting a professional to your home to use their expertise in giving you accurate bid. Would you spend 2 hours at your job doing work and then maybe get paid if your boss likes the idea you came up with best? I personally offer a ballpark price over phone/email if I could get a customer to do some basic measurements and send me photos.
Ignore him. Not a bridge you need to burn. You may want to use him in the future. Just do not respond to him.
He does not want the job. Let it go. Also, don't recommend him to others. If others ask you for a reference, tell them that he did some good work for you but then became unreliable.
He’s worked for you before but you’re still getting other quotes. I could understand why he’s charging you. You’re not driven by the quality of his work, but the lowest price. So what’s his incentive when he might have other loyal customers? I bet he’d rather spend his time on them.
Does the estimate fee get applied as a credit if do go ahead with him? Sounds as though he is plenty busy that can be picky with his estimates, which in all honestly is not a bad thing as it means he’s very busy, priced right and/or good work.
Having once paid for an estimate on something, I never go with anyone who asks for that now. I estimate construction for a living and we don't charge the clients to put together a proposal. Residential trade work is the only spot where contractors straight up try to rip off the client.
yeah and after paying for the estimate, you are going to get the "fuck you" price. and his crew gets lunch on you because you paid for his estimate that is going to be insanely high.
Thanks for your time. Next
Some contractors will charge a fee for a quote as not every quote gets a job and they will waste their time. What nobody wants to do is make a detailed quote for the customer to take to a nobody and say buy this and do it for less. The quote fee is a test if you’re actually committed to doing the work. He has enough work to justify the fee to keep away the jokers.
This ⬆️.
Not a chance in hell I’d pay that. If he wants the business come and give a quote, otherwise go pound salt.
Just stop contacting him and add to the do not use list you should keep in your head.
Just hire someone else if you don’t like his service.
Ok, then don't pay it and go with one of the other contractors. This isn't that complicated.
This job is too small and he doesn't want to put time into it. Move on.
Very uncommon . Call someone else
Lol? Next!
If you pay it, will it be applied to the total if you go with him? That’s the only way I’d consider paying for an estimate.
He doesn’t like you and doesn’t want your work lol.
He obviously does not want to work with you. Take the hint.
Everyone here is right but just fyi: I charge 1500 for a custom home cost analysis. That’s an in depth estimate with many subs for homes in the 4-10million dollar range.
He doesn't want to work with you. I work independently for a few contractors, helping with admin work. If they don't like a customer, they'll charge them absurd amounts or for weird things so that the customer doesn't bother with them anymore. Consider yourself fired as a client.
If you like the work he's done in the past and he gave you a good price then, I would go ahead and eat the $200 for the estimate especially if you lean toward using him again. $200 is 1.67% of the total price based on a $12,000 estimate. I'd offer to send the quotes from the other competitors of course with everything blanked out to protect identities and see what he says from that point.
If you want to get multiple quotes, that's fine. But he's busy, and doesn't want to work for free on a 1 in 4 chance of getting the job. 200 not much, and 12 grand is. If he rushes through his estimate and gets something wrong, that's potentially big money for him. I take a really long time with estimates/quotes for that reason. The advice to get three quotes is very homeowner friendly, but it's very contractor unfriendly. You do what you want, he'll do what he wants, and if they line up you can work together. So either take a chance on the new people, trust the guy you've already worked with, or pay the guy you've already worked with to do an estimate. Maybe you could ask him if he 200 bucks can come off the total bill. For perspective, this is 1.6 percent of your total bill. If a customer kicks up a fuss over an estimate costing 1.6 percent of a job, I'm leaving them to deal with that fuss.
I'll give you an estimate for only $100. Of course, my estimate will be for $52k for those windows.
Guy doesn't deserve the time you took to post, and obviously doesn't want your business. I can't imagine a situation where I'd be willing to pay for a quote. That's just not how it works.
Move on he doesn't want the job
Yeah. It sucks to drive around all day for tire kickers.
You definitely want to find someone else who isn’t experienced enough to know the value of their time and knowledge. If you’re not ready to spend $200 for them to figure out your project the contractor has proven you’re a waste of his time.
Tell him to suck a bag of dicks
Gas isn't free, administrative services aren't free and time isn't free...for some reason people feel entitled to these things for free, and yes some people are dumb enough to do it...but you shouldn't expect it...$200 is pretty reasonable It probably cost $50 in fuel alone just for the round trip if he's driving a work truck to your location The economy has been rubbing most small business owners the wrong way, some are able to hide it better than others
I don’t charge for estimates Yet But it gets crazy, running around giving “free” estimates Even a simple estimate cost 2 hours, that’s $250 worth of time To hear the customer say, ok thank you Then nothing
Putting a price together takes time, resources and knowledge. I don’t do anymore “pricing” for free just so you can turn around and lower someone else’s price. Take it or leave it. Never work for free.
Depends on the house and where you live but it could be that they need to get on the roof - which means setting up a safety harness, and then you need a second person to meet insurance and safety requirements...
Which of these comments are coming from actual successful business owners? This isn't a fuck off, a screw you or even a "I don't want the job" tactic. If someone owns a business known for quality work, their time is really valuable. If the quote is going divert an hour or two of this person's time in a "bidding" situation, then it's perfectly reasonable to request payment for time. Contractors are usually running everything and may not have a "front desk person" to call you back. They're probably running the whole damn show...ordering materials, planning jobs, payroll, phone calls, crew scheduling, taxes.....putting out fires all over the place. These kind of people aren't railroading you, they're surviving.
Why are you even wasting your time with that guy?
I wouldn’t want to pay $200 for an estimate but I think you are dramatically underestimating the amount of time it will take.
Measuring 3 windows, pricing siding, estimating labor IS work. Anyone willing to work for free sucks. You go try to measure the windows, price siding, and estimate the labor- see how long it takes.
I Give free estimates. Call more people. Remember some companies will send a salesperson to to give you a free general estimate! You sign papers, company adds whatever! Never pay more than half up front. Get an exact -ish list of materials order yourself to avoid fees they will try charging aquiring it themselves. Ok, list goes on. This coming from a lifelong contractor .Free or nevermind.
What don’t you get about the contractor doesn’t want the job ? If he’s already worked with him and won’t return his call thats a pretty good sign ….
Hover report cost him $50. Next time is money.
If this guy blew you off and has already done work for you, then he probably doesn’t wanna work with you. Save yourself the grief and ghost this guy.
Sounds like you are a either a difficult customer or a PITA he doesn't need. Pick someone else