I’ve seen something I think might be rule-breaking, what should I do?
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Honestly I've been told by some that I have BPD. I don't see it and others say it's trauma based like CPTSD not BPD. That what people see is my neurodivergent condition and just go "oh you are BPD" not that I have trauma, ADHD, and a social communication disorder. I think there can be links surely to neurodivergent conditions and trans people. Anything with BPD is probably just anecdotal.
>I know of a couple trans people diagnosed with BPD, and it makes me wonder if the two are connected.
bpd is essentially cptsd level 2. it makes sense that people who have had to suppress their identity for years out of fear, leaving them powerless and confused, would develop into bpd
as for the reverse, while people with bpd and cptsd have diminished self identities from underdeveloped dmpfc and mpfc brain regions, apart from rogd-esque non transitioners i doubt there is a correlation between transitioning and bpd beyond gender exploration or social mirroring
I was diagnosed with "BPD traits" or maybe you could frame it as BPD adjacent. I had several of the individual traits, but probably not enough for a full diagnosis.
There's no question that it was related for me. If you dig through the surface-level presentation of the BPD, it was basically one thing. The thing driving dysphoria, identity issues, fear of abandonment, and all of the other little things I had going on was all a profound, deep internal crisis of self-worth. A lot of what I did to work on my dysphoria wasn't even related to gender identity at all, but just my identity issues in general. Inversely, the dysphoria did offer me unique insight into what was actually going on with some of the less-intuitive BPD dynamics.
I try not to "diagnose" strangers over the internet, but it seems obvious to me that I'm not alone in this. I've run into several people aware of this connection within themselves. I've also seen plenty of people exhibiting the same behaviors who vehemently deny it, which is unfortunate.
I think BPD (again, maybe not full blown BPD, but some of the core wounding) is really common. There's an interplay between the identity problems and the lack of self-worth that's very natural, i.e. the gender ideation provides a way to patch over the underlying wounding in the same way as many of the more well-documented BPD behaviors.
The ship has sailed on this, but I find it really unfortunate that mentioning this is so villainized that we're not even really allowed to explore this connection. I think people suffering from this are being done a huge disservice by a community who ultimately hugboxes their BPD. Plenty of people transition and continue to suffer, and I feel like recognizing the underlying wounding could make them happier.
Not sure if you or anyone else is looking for advice, but I would say the biggest thing is to focus on "healthy" and not on a specific diagnosis (BPD, etc). Zero in on exactly what it is that's causing struggles in life, why those things are happening, and borrow whatever psychological tools you can find to work on those things. This applies no matter which side of transition you land on. People are unhappy on either side of transition. IMO, the only goal that matters in all of this is to be happy, content, and love yourself, no matter whether you end up going through life as cis or trans.
The rate of recovery of BPD is better than some personality disorders, but it's still not great. IMO, this is mostly because of an inability to cut through the symptoms and get down to the core inner pain. It's hard to continuously shed your defenses and be completely vulnerable, even to yourself, but this is the only way. The other part of it that's extremely difficult is that BPD becomes not just a condition you have, but who you are as a person. It starts so young and gets into such deep, formational aspects of your psyche, that it's inseparable from your base personality. We have to accept some of that, and work within that. It's not like taking heavy doses of antibiotics to kill off the bad thing. Aspects of how BPD change you are not bad things and are not something to be cured. It requires a bit of finesse to differentiate what to work on and what will remain, to change the bad parts and embrace the good, or in psychological terms, unlearn maladaptive coping strategies and cognitive distortions and replace them with healthier ones.
> The rate of recovery of BPD is better than some personality disorders, but it's still not great.
"All told, 50% of the borderline patients studied achieved a recovery from borderline personality disorder—an outcome that required being symptomatically remitted and having good social and vocational functioning during the past two years. In contrast, 93% of borderline patients attained a symptomatic remission lasting two years and 86% attained a sustained symptomatic remission that lasted four years."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3203735
bpd remission rate is high and outlook for bpd clients is very positive. it is a very treatable disorder, especially if you are younger.
Yep--I'm aware. I don't know if I would call this "very good," and amongst both clinicians and people who've recovered from BPD, it's well understood that "recovery" is not "cured." That said, there absolutely is hope, and regardless of what you call it, the non-diagnosable, post-treatment experience can lead to a happy, deeply fulfilling life.
It took me until about age 35 of obliviously acting out my own disfunction, then a little over 10 more years of intensive therapy and a lot of hard work on my own, but I'm fully recovered now. Maybe to your point if I had the right help at a younger age it could have even been easier (though, I'm not sure I had the emotional maturity then).
I certainly didn't mean to imply fatalism or take hope away from others. I get how hard it can be, and I always try to help others on a similar journey whenever I can.
Both have a link in trauma. Trans people are often traumatized, and trauma can cause BPD. It's not really related, but causality makes it look like they are
There no way to prove a correlation, but your statements are very relatable.
As someone with buckets of trauma from my childhood I have often wondered if I would fit the criteria for BPD.
But just like you said, as I transitioned the impulsivity, and self harm faded away, and I felt like I was finally able to know myself, in a way I wouldn't have even thought was possible.
It was like there was a locked door that prevented, me from accessing parts of myself, important parts of myself, parts that everyone needs to feel whole. Once I unlocked the door, it was surreal to reconnect with myself.
I think it may be common for trans people to be misdiagnosed with BPD. Especially before they understand themselves. I know bipolar is a common misdiagnosis and one I’ve had myself. Before I realized it’s just that I had dysphoria and I’m a bit ADHD af but in the girly way they’re just now deciding they understand. So it’s definitely a way to put us in a box. Trans people—trans women at least—do have a tendency to be messy af! Probably because we acquire issues as a result of not knowing we’re trans. But it’s actually a bit of a cross cultural stereotype. In Thailand, katoey are also known to be messy af?
Yes, for sure, and I certainly wouldn't try to slap the BPD label on anybody who has baggage or "stuff." I just think we also shouldn't jump to dismissing it, or labeling it as typically girly or anything.
Unless it's just tongue in cheek, being "a mess" is a cuter way of saying dysfunctional. Maybe not a a PD, but there's some stuff there that could be worked on, healed, made better, and not played down. It's kind of the "if you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best" vibes, where dysfunction is played off as empowering or emotionally expressive.
I don't know you at all, but if you were diagnosed with bipolar, keep working on that. Even if you're not bipolar, it's something. You don't get misdiagnosed for being healthy, and most people can use some degree of healing even if they are fairly healthy.
Oh I definitely do agree. Actually transitioning helped me focus my crazy. Dysphoria was just pretending to be so much other stuff! Now I’m finally focusing on my ADHD and making progress. It’s a bit like how they say if you’re an alcoholic you have to deal with that before you even find out what your issues actually are? Dysphoria is a bit the same way!
BPD is caused by childhood trauma, and being a trans kid can be pretty traumatic. Definitely not all trans people have BPD, but there could be a correlation absolutely
I don't think there's any real link between BPD and being trans. Many people fall into this mindset of thinking A and B share some kind of causal link just because they seem to correlate, that's what I think is going on here.
I suspect that I have BPD because I check almost every symptom box,. That being said it may just be a mixture of other conditions and trauma responses. I am also queer and on the autism spectrum. While I know many people who are at least two of those three if they are any to begin with I don't think that's a direct causal link. Autism (for example) is apparently more prevalent in queer people and queerness is more prevalent in autistic folks. Trauma is also common in both groups, interestingly people think that it is a major factor in BPD. I don't think it's accurate to say that Autism or being queer causes trauma (and by extension that in turn this causes BPD), on the other hand I do think that correlation between these those exists because each one raises the likelihood of the other.
no i know like one person who has bpd and they're trans, generally it's not a viable tactic to think "hmm i know people who are x and y so maybe those things are linked" like this is what studies are for
I think BPD is being used as the new "hysterical" tbh that's probably why. the test I took when I got dx also had a lot of questions that could be explained by dysphoria. if I did have BPD, i don't think I do anymore, but I never went through therapy for it. the more I read abt BPD the more I feel that's not me. ik it's kinda dumb I'm a bit dysphoric over my diagnosis bc I think they just see trans men as "hysterical women."
I totally get that being something that makes you dysphoric, there’s definitely a lot of harmful discourse pertaining to young trans men in specific about how we’re all just hysterical/borderline/overall mentally unwell cis girls.
But like in my case, and in other cases I’ve seen, transitioning helped ease those symptoms, which I think confirms BPD (or the traits of BPD) is a *symptom* of untreated dysphoria, rather than the gender dysphoria being the symptom of BPD.
yeah, BPD is a very painful mental disorder they're confusing with another very painful mental disorder, so it makes sense trans ppl could get misdiagnosed with it. this wouldn't apply to everyone, but autistic women also get misdiagnosed w it a *lot*. Just women is general get over diagnosed w BPD. I'm probably autistic and my therapist obviously saw me as a woman.
Yeah I literally just connected the two today, because I stopped transitioning a few months back for social and insurance reasons and noticing all my older behaviors that made me think I was borderline, are coming back. I didn’t even have a “Fp” when I was transitioning, like I felt idk very well adjusted.
Maybe? Ig it would depend on the individual. For example I feel like my BPD did not get better thru transition alone. I still hella struggle w the FP myself😫 however the identity issues did definitely get better after transitioning for some time.
I’ve seen something I think might be rule-breaking, what should I do? **Report it!** We may not agree with your assessment of a certain post or comment but we will always take a look. Please make reports that are **unambiguous**, **succinct**, and (importantly) **accurate**. If your issue isn't covered by one of the numerous predefined reasons and or you need to expand upon a predefined reason then please use the 'Custom response' option (in addition if required). **Don't feed the trolls, ignore, report, move on.** See [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/honesttransgender/comments/guc56i/welcome_to_rhonesttransgender_please_read_for/) for more details about our subreddit. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/honesttransgender) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly I've been told by some that I have BPD. I don't see it and others say it's trauma based like CPTSD not BPD. That what people see is my neurodivergent condition and just go "oh you are BPD" not that I have trauma, ADHD, and a social communication disorder. I think there can be links surely to neurodivergent conditions and trans people. Anything with BPD is probably just anecdotal.
I mean people get BPD after being traumatised and most trans people are traumatised, so yeah, very likely
>I know of a couple trans people diagnosed with BPD, and it makes me wonder if the two are connected. bpd is essentially cptsd level 2. it makes sense that people who have had to suppress their identity for years out of fear, leaving them powerless and confused, would develop into bpd as for the reverse, while people with bpd and cptsd have diminished self identities from underdeveloped dmpfc and mpfc brain regions, apart from rogd-esque non transitioners i doubt there is a correlation between transitioning and bpd beyond gender exploration or social mirroring
I was diagnosed with "BPD traits" or maybe you could frame it as BPD adjacent. I had several of the individual traits, but probably not enough for a full diagnosis. There's no question that it was related for me. If you dig through the surface-level presentation of the BPD, it was basically one thing. The thing driving dysphoria, identity issues, fear of abandonment, and all of the other little things I had going on was all a profound, deep internal crisis of self-worth. A lot of what I did to work on my dysphoria wasn't even related to gender identity at all, but just my identity issues in general. Inversely, the dysphoria did offer me unique insight into what was actually going on with some of the less-intuitive BPD dynamics. I try not to "diagnose" strangers over the internet, but it seems obvious to me that I'm not alone in this. I've run into several people aware of this connection within themselves. I've also seen plenty of people exhibiting the same behaviors who vehemently deny it, which is unfortunate. I think BPD (again, maybe not full blown BPD, but some of the core wounding) is really common. There's an interplay between the identity problems and the lack of self-worth that's very natural, i.e. the gender ideation provides a way to patch over the underlying wounding in the same way as many of the more well-documented BPD behaviors. The ship has sailed on this, but I find it really unfortunate that mentioning this is so villainized that we're not even really allowed to explore this connection. I think people suffering from this are being done a huge disservice by a community who ultimately hugboxes their BPD. Plenty of people transition and continue to suffer, and I feel like recognizing the underlying wounding could make them happier. Not sure if you or anyone else is looking for advice, but I would say the biggest thing is to focus on "healthy" and not on a specific diagnosis (BPD, etc). Zero in on exactly what it is that's causing struggles in life, why those things are happening, and borrow whatever psychological tools you can find to work on those things. This applies no matter which side of transition you land on. People are unhappy on either side of transition. IMO, the only goal that matters in all of this is to be happy, content, and love yourself, no matter whether you end up going through life as cis or trans. The rate of recovery of BPD is better than some personality disorders, but it's still not great. IMO, this is mostly because of an inability to cut through the symptoms and get down to the core inner pain. It's hard to continuously shed your defenses and be completely vulnerable, even to yourself, but this is the only way. The other part of it that's extremely difficult is that BPD becomes not just a condition you have, but who you are as a person. It starts so young and gets into such deep, formational aspects of your psyche, that it's inseparable from your base personality. We have to accept some of that, and work within that. It's not like taking heavy doses of antibiotics to kill off the bad thing. Aspects of how BPD change you are not bad things and are not something to be cured. It requires a bit of finesse to differentiate what to work on and what will remain, to change the bad parts and embrace the good, or in psychological terms, unlearn maladaptive coping strategies and cognitive distortions and replace them with healthier ones.
> The rate of recovery of BPD is better than some personality disorders, but it's still not great. "All told, 50% of the borderline patients studied achieved a recovery from borderline personality disorder—an outcome that required being symptomatically remitted and having good social and vocational functioning during the past two years. In contrast, 93% of borderline patients attained a symptomatic remission lasting two years and 86% attained a sustained symptomatic remission that lasted four years." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3203735 bpd remission rate is high and outlook for bpd clients is very positive. it is a very treatable disorder, especially if you are younger.
Yep--I'm aware. I don't know if I would call this "very good," and amongst both clinicians and people who've recovered from BPD, it's well understood that "recovery" is not "cured." That said, there absolutely is hope, and regardless of what you call it, the non-diagnosable, post-treatment experience can lead to a happy, deeply fulfilling life. It took me until about age 35 of obliviously acting out my own disfunction, then a little over 10 more years of intensive therapy and a lot of hard work on my own, but I'm fully recovered now. Maybe to your point if I had the right help at a younger age it could have even been easier (though, I'm not sure I had the emotional maturity then). I certainly didn't mean to imply fatalism or take hope away from others. I get how hard it can be, and I always try to help others on a similar journey whenever I can.
Both have a link in trauma. Trans people are often traumatized, and trauma can cause BPD. It's not really related, but causality makes it look like they are
There no way to prove a correlation, but your statements are very relatable. As someone with buckets of trauma from my childhood I have often wondered if I would fit the criteria for BPD. But just like you said, as I transitioned the impulsivity, and self harm faded away, and I felt like I was finally able to know myself, in a way I wouldn't have even thought was possible. It was like there was a locked door that prevented, me from accessing parts of myself, important parts of myself, parts that everyone needs to feel whole. Once I unlocked the door, it was surreal to reconnect with myself.
I think it may be common for trans people to be misdiagnosed with BPD. Especially before they understand themselves. I know bipolar is a common misdiagnosis and one I’ve had myself. Before I realized it’s just that I had dysphoria and I’m a bit ADHD af but in the girly way they’re just now deciding they understand. So it’s definitely a way to put us in a box. Trans people—trans women at least—do have a tendency to be messy af! Probably because we acquire issues as a result of not knowing we’re trans. But it’s actually a bit of a cross cultural stereotype. In Thailand, katoey are also known to be messy af?
"Messy AF" kind of sounds like a casual way of describing subclinical BPD.
It describes quite a few things though?
Yes, for sure, and I certainly wouldn't try to slap the BPD label on anybody who has baggage or "stuff." I just think we also shouldn't jump to dismissing it, or labeling it as typically girly or anything. Unless it's just tongue in cheek, being "a mess" is a cuter way of saying dysfunctional. Maybe not a a PD, but there's some stuff there that could be worked on, healed, made better, and not played down. It's kind of the "if you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best" vibes, where dysfunction is played off as empowering or emotionally expressive. I don't know you at all, but if you were diagnosed with bipolar, keep working on that. Even if you're not bipolar, it's something. You don't get misdiagnosed for being healthy, and most people can use some degree of healing even if they are fairly healthy.
Oh I definitely do agree. Actually transitioning helped me focus my crazy. Dysphoria was just pretending to be so much other stuff! Now I’m finally focusing on my ADHD and making progress. It’s a bit like how they say if you’re an alcoholic you have to deal with that before you even find out what your issues actually are? Dysphoria is a bit the same way!
BPD is caused by childhood trauma, and being a trans kid can be pretty traumatic. Definitely not all trans people have BPD, but there could be a correlation absolutely
Being trans is traumatic when you're growing up so it makes sense that people develop maladaptive coping mechanisms
Nah.
There’s definitely a link between being queer and neurodivergent
I don't think there's any real link between BPD and being trans. Many people fall into this mindset of thinking A and B share some kind of causal link just because they seem to correlate, that's what I think is going on here. I suspect that I have BPD because I check almost every symptom box,. That being said it may just be a mixture of other conditions and trauma responses. I am also queer and on the autism spectrum. While I know many people who are at least two of those three if they are any to begin with I don't think that's a direct causal link. Autism (for example) is apparently more prevalent in queer people and queerness is more prevalent in autistic folks. Trauma is also common in both groups, interestingly people think that it is a major factor in BPD. I don't think it's accurate to say that Autism or being queer causes trauma (and by extension that in turn this causes BPD), on the other hand I do think that correlation between these those exists because each one raises the likelihood of the other.
I know dozens of trans folks and none of them show any signs of BPD. I have a sibling with BPD so I am familiar with it.
no i know like one person who has bpd and they're trans, generally it's not a viable tactic to think "hmm i know people who are x and y so maybe those things are linked" like this is what studies are for
I think BPD is being used as the new "hysterical" tbh that's probably why. the test I took when I got dx also had a lot of questions that could be explained by dysphoria. if I did have BPD, i don't think I do anymore, but I never went through therapy for it. the more I read abt BPD the more I feel that's not me. ik it's kinda dumb I'm a bit dysphoric over my diagnosis bc I think they just see trans men as "hysterical women."
I totally get that being something that makes you dysphoric, there’s definitely a lot of harmful discourse pertaining to young trans men in specific about how we’re all just hysterical/borderline/overall mentally unwell cis girls. But like in my case, and in other cases I’ve seen, transitioning helped ease those symptoms, which I think confirms BPD (or the traits of BPD) is a *symptom* of untreated dysphoria, rather than the gender dysphoria being the symptom of BPD.
yeah, BPD is a very painful mental disorder they're confusing with another very painful mental disorder, so it makes sense trans ppl could get misdiagnosed with it. this wouldn't apply to everyone, but autistic women also get misdiagnosed w it a *lot*. Just women is general get over diagnosed w BPD. I'm probably autistic and my therapist obviously saw me as a woman.
I have diagnosed BPD that I go to therapy for however I never sat and thought as to if it relates to the dysphoria at all. Now you got me thinking..
Yeah I literally just connected the two today, because I stopped transitioning a few months back for social and insurance reasons and noticing all my older behaviors that made me think I was borderline, are coming back. I didn’t even have a “Fp” when I was transitioning, like I felt idk very well adjusted.
Maybe? Ig it would depend on the individual. For example I feel like my BPD did not get better thru transition alone. I still hella struggle w the FP myself😫 however the identity issues did definitely get better after transitioning for some time.