I guess it depends on when that would be.
I often hear the opinion that since Hitler wasn't a very good military leader that taking him out of the equation would probably result in someone more competent taking over.
Seems plausible that if they sued for peace, Nazi Germany would have existed for longer and been a further net negative for humanity. Even more so I'd they kept ahold of some of the territory that they took. Maybe they'd still exist today and half of Europe would still be theirs.
Hard to say how trying to change history would unfold.
Nazi economic policy was unsound. Without invading their neighbors for resources, the Germany economy would collapse and the Nazis would get overthrown.
If it didn't have to be a Nazi, just an important member of Hitler's regime, I'd take out Erich von Manstein as he was one of the effective generals of WW2. Otherwise probably Himmler, the slimy little fuck who organised much of the Holocaust, because fuck that guy.
edit
Guderian and Speer are very strong contenders. I may switch my answers.
Hitler has only got one ball,
Göring has two but very small,
Himmler is rather sim'lar,
But poor old Goebbels has no balls at all
School children in Britain. Little to no evidence he was missing a ball tho
Funny enough, goebbels is the one nazi name i remember first, funny that there's a song about him.
Iirc, he wasn't particularily efficient or influential in the regime, just spectacularily cruel, which is why i would have chosen him.
Though taking out others could probably have a better/larger impact
He was spectacularly crooked. Willing to cut any throat or step on any face to accomplish his goals, and the goals of Hitler. Propaganda minister. He’s also very famous because we have a copy of his diary and we can pretty accurately gauge the truthfulness of ww2 propaganda as a result
He was behind the nazi propaganda machine so I think it's fair to say thay he was rather efficient and influential to the regime, perhaps not quite so much during the war but definitely in terms of their rise to and consolidation of power.
DON’T TOUCH GORING. He promised Hitler he could eliminate the remaining British troops with air power alone and made the Dunkirk evacuation possible. He promised Hitler he could force Britain’s surrender and lost the Battle of Britain. He did more to keep Britain in the war until the US joined than Winston Churchill.
Nah he was so incompetent that it would have been worse if he was replaced by someone competent. Albert Speer minister of armaments would be a good choice to take out. He kept the late war economy humming.
Goering was actually a useless morphine addict after a year or so, killing him might be an improvement. Personally I'd go after himmler or goebbels since we know we can beat rommel.
I would suggest Goobles, Taking out Himler in 1939 would be a really bad idea.
Because his replacement would be his most competent and trusted underling who Hitler also had a fondness for, Reinhardt Hydrich.
I'd keep Göring because he was very ineffective at his job, meaning letting him live prevents someone more competent from taking his place, which helps shorten the war/save lives through his incompetence.
>probably Himmler, the slimy little fuck who organised much of the Holocaust, because fuck that guy.
Eichmann might be a better choice here. He was the guy responsible for the logistics and organization of the holocaust, and he was competent at it. Kill him, and maybe someone less competent gets that job.
Kill Himmler, and he might have been replaced by someone like Heydrich.
Most likely, and I suspect Heydrich would have been worse.
Heydrich wouldn't be getting distracted playing knights in his castle and hosting pagan mass wedding rituals.
Himmler was an evil fuck, but Heydrich was the guy Hitler called "the man with the iron heart."
I'd go Manstein. Holocaust was going to happen regardless of Himmler. Either that or Goebbels who kept the country energized for war after Hitler stopped making public appearances
Save that Herman Goering guy, tho. Thank God he was incompetent.
Take out Heinz Guderian and maybe the Germans don't see success in France. If it weren't for Heinz's brilliant blitzkreig tactics or his mad dash across France, British and French forces might have had a better chance organizing a strong defense.
Josef Mengele. Sure there’s more men that directly contributed to the war, but Mengele was a literal mad man tearing apart humans in the camps for bogus “experiments”. A world without him would save a lot of people an extremely cruel death beyond what even a lot of the general people in the camps saw.
Edit: And unless I’m mistaken, he escaped and never faced punishment so he deserves the death he didn’t get.
Dude... how did I not know he got away? This guy is absolutely the most evil of them all. Wow. He got to Argentina. Lived in and around Buenos Aires, then fled to Paraguay (Basically everyone was after him). Made it to 67 years old.
He drown though. Supposedly from a stroke. I can only hope it was actually Mossad.
Now I'm frustrated. Thanks history! Anyways... yeah. THAT GUY. He's the one that needs to die well before WW2 even kicks off.
Right? Like out of all the baddies, he was the most sick twisted of em all. And the fact he got to live so long is just stupid. But yeah so he’d be my pick to die haha
Same, and itd be real hard to resist doing it by taking his tongue, disfiguring him and then feeding him to his own camps or maybe dropping him off with his good friends the 731 boys.
Came here to suggest the same person. There are a lot of horrific experiments done on humans in history, but there is a lot of knowledge we have to accept could not have been gotten without them and we benefit from that knowledge even today. Not from Mengele. His twisted experiments were just for torture under the veil of scientific discovery. I hope he lived every day in fear after the war.
Joseph Goebbels. Everyone's focused on people that participated directly in Holocaust events, or generals, but Goebbels was in charge of the propaganda. Without his hand, getting the German people to turn on their neighbors would have been damn near impossible.
If you stop the Nazi Party from winning the hearts and minds, you win the war. It's really as simple as that.
No cause Joseph Goebbels propaganda is still parroted today in the US. If he could have been taken out at any point it would have been good for the future of the world.
I mean yes. If I can kill multiple people he's still on the list, just once the war is on Manstein, Rommell and Himmler are all higher in the list. Goebbels work was already available, the way to devalue it would be to undermine German success in the war, make them a footnote instead of the most famous bad guys in recent memory.
Yeah.
Hitler and the others had their evil plans but Goebbels was the one who manipulated normal, inteligent people into accepting what was going on.
In my eyes he was more evil than Hitler himself.
Josef Mengele was an infamous Nazi doctor who conducted his "works" in Auschwitz. He had an obsession with twins and dwarves and would often be one of the first at the scene when new cattle cars filled with people arrived. Ironically, and I do not say this to minimize his actions in any way, there are some individuals who would not have survived beyond arrival. Children and those with perceived deformities were frequently sent to the gas chambers immediately. Though done for selfish reasons, Mengele's obsession led to the survival of some twins and individuals with deformities past the end of the war.
After reading some survivor accounts, there were some children under his observation that would rush to him when they noticed that twins or other individuals of his interest were about to be gassed. Mengele would hurry to save the twins. (Note that when I say save, I don't use it as a term meant to display any level of morality or empathy for the individuals.
The man was described in many accounts to give the children candy and often requested he be called Uncle Mengele.
Now Mengele did a number of experiments on twins, but one of his most most horrific involved two brothers. Essentially, he attempted to create conjoined twins by stitching the boys together . Reports state that they screamed in pain day and night for several days before finally succumbing to infection.
In the case of identical twins, if one twin died, the other would also be killed, an autopsy would occur to see if the cause of death could be seen on the other individual. (Note I might be mistaken on the "reasoning" for the other twins murder. It has been years since I read the books I refer to)
He also did a number of experiments involving changing eye color. The process was done by injecting chemicals directly into the eye. Usually, just ending in extreme pain and burning in a large percentage blindness resulted.
These are just the things I remember.
Some random ass soldier who was already on death's door. Why? Because everything in history that has happened has led the world to what it is today. If Hitler and WW2 didn't happen then someone worse would've came along or we wouldn't have the hindsight to add to the regulations and laws we have today.
Specific people who's life accomplishment and families wouldn't have those today. People who met foreigners after escaping Europe and marrying and having families wouldn't have happened.
History and the events of it was terrible and disgusting but too much would be altered if we take out the "wrong person". What happens if you take out a general and the person that takes their place was instrumental in allowing the Nazis to actually win and alter the fate of the world completely?
Nope. I'll find someone that's already knocking on death's door and put em out of their misery.
Bigger picture, without WWII we don't have the Bretton Woods accord, so no Pax Americana. While things could be better, post-WWII has been an era of unprecedented peace between nations. Wars have been relatively small and infrequent.
I'm absolutely not saying that the modern world order has been perfect, but I'd be scared to roll the dice.
Even bigger: We didn't drop more nuclear bombs after WW2 because we saw what they do. If that had not happened, they would have been dropped when everybody had plenty of the bomb.
exactly. without the nazis, there would've been no one strong enough to fight the soviets (the US might've intervened, but not necessarily) and communism would've likely spread across all of europe, and then towards large parts of asia
I agree that Himmler is the one that needs to go. He was one of those that started this whole thing and had more control over Hitler than people think.
I think it would be worse to find out your kid is not yours than to discover an old relative you never met was evil.
One is a conversation-starter, the other's a family-ender.
It definitely was. When I first found out it felt almost shameful. But then I'm like "ok, she died 14 years before I was born, it's not like I had anything to do with her crazy shit" lol
If I end up time-travelling back to 1939 and absolutely have to kill someone, I either kill some random, inconsequential nobody and then stay the fuck out of history's way or myself. if I've learnt anything from fantasy media / TV tropes it's that going back in time to make things better by killing someone 90% of the time just makes things worse, Then you try "fixing" it again, making it even worse over and over until eventually, you have to go back to just before you started time travelling the first time and stop/kill yourself to undo the whole convoluted mess. This rule is applied double hard if it involves Nazis.
How is nobody picking 'Hitler's Chauffeur/Pilot at the exact moment that the car/plane losing control would be catastrophic'? Or even just a random motorist or a pilot flying over one of his rallies who would have crashed into him if they'd expired suddenly at a key moment. He was usually surrounded by party members whose continued consciousness had to have been key to his survival in subtle ways. If you're a dictator, you *utterly depend* on your lackeys, which is what makes the tough guy attitude so necessary and pathetic at the same time.
Anybody not considering [Reinhard Heydrich](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Heydrich) for this hypothetical, simply does not understand how the machine that ran the Holocaust came about.
It was systematically organized by this man and deployed via his delegations at the [Wansee Conference](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference).
Many of the suggestions here are simply vocabulary terms taken from a high school classroom and would not have altered history to the point of slowing down the mass exterminations.
Precisely. They're all just picking big names. You know about mengele and Eichman because they escaped. Heydrich was threatening enough that they had to assassinate him during the war. If you pick himmler, you're just opening the door for Heydrich. An early anthropoid could seriously hamper the holocaust as we knew it and turned it into a haphazard affair of shooting who death squads run into. Not good but way lower numbers.
The only other argument I could see is for guys like Speer or Manstein who weren't the most ideologically pure nazis but whose contributions probably extended the duration of the war and thus the holocaust
Speer would be my second choice only because it was his direct intervention that propped up the Nazi war industry towards the end of the war, outproducing 39 at the end of 44 despite bombing and invasion
I've literally been scrolling this looking for Heydrich and wondering if I was actually going to have to be the first to say his name.
Heydrich. The answer to this is Heydrich- If you are looking to stop or subvert the Holocaust that is. No one else had such a great impact, which is remarkable given he was dead before 1943 when the majority of the death camps were operational. But the fact that the original death camp operations were named "Operation Reinhard" tells you everything you need to know.
Kill Himmler and all that happens is that Heydrich replaces him, doesn't die in 1942 and the genocide part of the holocaust is actually even worse.
If you want to stop the war early then I genuinely am not sure that there is any Nazi other than Hitler you could kill to do so. There are events you could change but I don't think there is a Zhukov figure for the Germans that you could take out and change the course of the war.
Once you get to about 1942 the one person you don't want rid of is Hitler, since his dreadful decision making was crucial to the allies turning the tide
To echo everyone else, why did I have to scroll so far to find Heydrich? More evil than anyone else in the Third Reich in terms of overall woe done to the world. (Mengele may have been more viscerally evil, but Heydrich was the architect and instigator of the Final Solution, and as these things can be measured, did far more damage to many more people than Mengele's experiments.) This bastard was so evil he was a priority target for Czech partisans backed by the British SOE, and I'm glad they got him, may he burn in Hell.
Ribbentrop.
Without him, the "Pact of Steel" may have either not been signed or been delayed enough to allow France and the British empire to be more ready for war.
He was also heavily involved in sabotaging peace talks between Japan and the US, along with convincing Hitler to declare war on the US.
A part of me really wants to say Mengele because he committed a lot of atrocities, but his actions didn't impact the war itself very much. I'm not sure if it would've been better if he'd never had the chance to do all of his evil, or if the war ended sooner because of the death of an important general or something.
The big argument for Mengele is that if you killed someone else like Himmler, they most likely would have been replaced. I doubt another psycho doctor takes Mengele’s place if he’s found dead.
The net change of killing Himmler would be Hitler finding a slightly less competent person to still carry out the Holocaust uninterrupted.
Mengele was not necessary to the war effort or to Hitlers plan, so he likely wouldn’t be replaced, leading to a greater net change in suffering
The guy who convinced Hitler to do the holocaust in the first place BEFORE he manages to convince him.
Edit: the person I was trying to think off was [ERICH LUDENDORFF](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/erich-ludendorff) who was the one that propagated the lie of jews stabbing people in the back which was one of the main reasons Hitler did what he did to the jews
>The guy who convinced Hitler to do the holocaust in the first place BEFORE he manages to convince him.
Killing Henry Ford 8 years early wouldn't change much, everything he did that inspired Hitler, he'd already done.
That wouldn't work. The Stabbed In the Back myth started with the end of WWI. By 1939, that would be too entrenched in the minds of the germans who believed it.
Hitler was already anti-semitic long before. One of his main reasons for his hatred was because Jews would lowball him for his paintings, as absurd as it sounds.
For context: There was an assassination attempt on Hitler in 1944. Explosives were smuggled into the room with Hitler. Brandt inadvertently moved the case behind a table leg just before it exploded. Killing himself in the process and saving Hitler.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz\_Brandt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Brandt)
I think we're all thinking Himmler for very obvious reasons, right? I'd also pick Heydrich or Eichmann, since they designed the state apparatus to murder six million people. Maybe Speer since he designed the Nazi economy. But who's the shady slimy back stabbing little Nazi scumbag that everyone has to talk to in order to get to Hitler? Who created a massive bureaucracy to control the information around the Fuhrer? Who very reasonably can be argued to be the shadow fuhrer of the Nazi regime? BORMANN. Take him out, and Hitler can't function, the state can't function, and chaos reigns inside the Nazi state. Bormann is your guy.
has to be 1939? if it was early I would get rid of ~~Goring~~,Goebbels architect smarty boy of the regimen
the rest were sick fucks but little Joseph actually was the one clever fuck
Edit: corrected Goring for Goebbels
Doing the most damage to Naziism is probably to kill Goering. Doing the most good in the world is probably killing Himmler. Doing the most to stop the spread of fascism is probably to kill Goebbels.
I would kill Gunther Von Kluge. This probably delays the invasion of Poland a few months and gives France and the UK time to get their shit together.
Might be darkly funny to use Mengele's own methods on him.
'Oh, what's that? You hate having acid injected into your veins? Gee, what a coincidence! I know a lot of other people who agree!'
Hans Asperger. Yes, the same Asperger that the autism disorder is named after. He was a Nazi and collaborated with the Third Reich to exterminate children with disabilities. Fucking monster.
This might be controversial, but if I was in a room with Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, and Martin Bormann, and I had a gun with two bullets, I'd shoot Bormann twice. All of the Nazis were monsters, but Bormann was just an asshole.
Albert Speer. Because while there were much worse individuals, Speer taking over the control of German arms production lengthened the war by a significant amount of time. People like Goering and Himmler while worse than Speer were also incompetent militarily. The power struggles between them also helped shorten the war. Speer though took a German war economy that was in danger of coming apart, and at least delayed the inevitable. He abused the hell out of slave labor. While he wasn't the worst NAZI was definitely right up there with the amount of evil he committed.
39 would be a dangerous time to try making changes. If you kill the wrong person Hitler might never get the idea to betray the USSR and the Allies would have a much bigger problem to deal with.
Whoever diverted the patrol route for Hitler's victory parade in Warsaw:
"General Michał Karaszewicz-Tokarzewski and other members of the Polish Army attempted to detonate hidden explosives during Hitler's victory parade in Warsaw. 500 kg of TNT were concealed in a ditch, ready to be detonated by Polish sappers. However, at the last moment, the parade was diverted and the saboteurs missed their target."
Hmm. Tough to say.
Maybe Manstein would have been the most effective Nazi to eliminate. Maybe that keeps France on their feet. Tough to say.
Goering is the other option as he was number 2 for a long time. His loss might have made a significant impact.
Himmler is probably the 2nd most offensive Nazi next to Hitler but while eliminating him might be satisfying, I feel any fanatic could have easily filled his shoes to the same effect. Heydrich certainly could.
Honestly, Hitler wasn't the worst of them. It's the middle managment types that actually planned and carried it out.
Hitler called Reinhard Heydrich "The man with the Iron Heart". If you haven't watched "Conspiracy" on HBO, you absolutly need to. It's the most horrifying non horror movie ever.
I'm not convinced Hitler was even in charge. I think he was a junkie that was good at being persuasive. I think he was a mouthpiece that was paid in drugs
Reinhard Heydrich was perhaps the person most singularly responsible for the Holocaust, both in ideation and execution.
Hard not to pick him.
Himmler (who Heydrich reported to, who in turn was in Hitlers inner circle) would be at a virtual tie though, for the same reason of Holocaust architecting.
If you wanted to shut down the Nazi regime early in the game, Hitler shouldn't be your first choice anyways. Hitler was the charismatic figure head, but the real person behind selling Hitler and the National Socialist Workers party (aka the Nazis) to the German people was Hitler's propaganda minister, ***Josef Goebels***.
Goebels was the one who taught Hitler how to speak, act, wrote much of Hitler's speeches, and even controlled the German media to feed lies to the German people about Hitler and the state of the war. It was even said that Goebels was even more anti-Semitic than Hitler himself, if that could be possible. Goebels, however, was far too sickly to even join the German military and had a clubbed foot so he knew that he would never be seen as a military leader. Hitler, as we know him, was largely Goebel's creation. If he hadn't found Hitler to sell to the German people, he would have found someone else.
Goebels was also responsible for salvaging any little support that he could muster from the German people toward the end of the war, as the German populace quickly began to lose faith in and turn against their Fuhrer. He fed them constant lies about German successes in battles, when in reality, every soldier on the ground and their Generals knew the war was lost. Had he not kept the German people in some semblance of hope, the German people may have erupted into civil unrest and fell from within before the red army could even reach Berlin.
Hey, I've got a good one. I would figure out who was responsible for whatever happened to make Hitler not get killed by the bomb blast, maybe the guy that stood in the spot where it would have been effective or something. I don't know if that could be figured out but I definitely go for that.
Franz von Pappen. The man who gave Hitler his first job which gave him too much power to be restrained.
No one else wanted to hire him. Franz is the reason he had the chance to prove himself. Prior to this, the Nazis were just laughing stocks.
Toss up between Goebbels and Heinrich Himmler. Maybe Reinhard Heidrich, but the Czech resistance took care of him for us.
I lean toward Goebbels since the absence of his propaganda genius would likely be the most tangible blow the loss of any one person could deal to the nazi cause. Himmler comes close just because of how sociopathically cruel he was in his administration of the concentration camp system. His death would be immensely personally satisfying, but I don't think it would have nearly as drastic and noticeable of an effect on the overall course of the war than the loss of Goebbels, or perhaps someone like Manstein.
In 1939 it might not be worth it to kill Hitler. He made a lot of really bad decisions that lost him the war. Kill him and maybe somebody worse takes over. The nazi to kill, IMO, is Goebbels. His propaganda mastery was one of a kind and everyone learned way too much terrible shit from him and implemented it in their own countries. Without him working tirelessly to improve Hitler's image, I think support for the war might crumble much faster.
Goebbels was the Facebook of the day. He crafted misinformation perfectly, and fully understood its power. If you take him out, you pull out 99.9% of the power behind the Nazis.
Maybe not a Nazi. I would kill Romnel. The Germans/Italians collapse much faster if they can't hold North Africa. The Brits then invade Greece or Italy and Germany can't launch operation Barborosa. Which means when Russia finally decided to enter the war they are much stronger.
Joseph Goebbels: He was the mastermind behind the propaganda that propelled the Nazis into such power.
Without that, Hitler would have just been some guy with a funny mustache yelling on a street corner.
Probably none because if not for the camps my grandparents would have never met.
It's a horrible thought but if not for the Nazis rounding up my now family I wouldn't be here.
Heydrich before his demise in 1942 before he could design and contribute to the holocaust. Himmler for the same reasons or goebbels for the massive propaganda influence
Reinhard Heydrich, architect of thr Holocaust.
He was assassinated in 1942 (I think it was) or 1943, but by then he had already set the industrial might of thr Holocaust into motion.
Either him or Adolf Eichmann, his assistant that was the brains behind the Holocaust.
While it wouldn't necessarily stop the mass murder of people in Nazi occupied territories, it would probably prevent the wholesale mass extermination on an industrial level it became. So maybe 2 million dead instead of tens of millions dead....
Hans Bauer... He was Hitler's personal pilot. I would choose to kill him while he was flying Adolf around...
good answer
Why kill Hitler when he's dumb enough to open a war with two fronts?
I guess it depends on when that would be. I often hear the opinion that since Hitler wasn't a very good military leader that taking him out of the equation would probably result in someone more competent taking over.
In 1939 would be Hess. The guy had less military talent than Hitler,but was more open to diplomacy.
Seems plausible that if they sued for peace, Nazi Germany would have existed for longer and been a further net negative for humanity. Even more so I'd they kept ahold of some of the territory that they took. Maybe they'd still exist today and half of Europe would still be theirs. Hard to say how trying to change history would unfold.
They *did* sue for peace, several times. Churchill flatly refused the offers, even when it was just the UK standing alone.
Churchill would not compromise.
Entirely possible he'd be more open to that with a less insane Chancellor.
Nazi economic policy was unsound. Without invading their neighbors for resources, the Germany economy would collapse and the Nazis would get overthrown.
It was growth by acquisition, a common business practice that always ends poorly. But makes a few people rich in the process.
If Hitler dies the war lasts longer. Hitler made battle plans according to what his astrologer said . Not his generals.
If it didn't have to be a Nazi, just an important member of Hitler's regime, I'd take out Erich von Manstein as he was one of the effective generals of WW2. Otherwise probably Himmler, the slimy little fuck who organised much of the Holocaust, because fuck that guy. edit Guderian and Speer are very strong contenders. I may switch my answers.
Damn.... came here to say Himmler too. Wonder if he's the second most hated like, universally.
Probably followed by goring as they were the most prominent (at least in modern times)
Don’t forget goebbels. There’s a song about this
Yes, I always forget about goebbels.
Just remember that nazi turkeys say his name all the time.
Hitler has only got one ball, Göring has two but very small, Himmler is rather sim'lar, But poor old Goebbels has no balls at all School children in Britain. Little to no evidence he was missing a ball tho
Funny enough, goebbels is the one nazi name i remember first, funny that there's a song about him. Iirc, he wasn't particularily efficient or influential in the regime, just spectacularily cruel, which is why i would have chosen him. Though taking out others could probably have a better/larger impact
He was spectacularly crooked. Willing to cut any throat or step on any face to accomplish his goals, and the goals of Hitler. Propaganda minister. He’s also very famous because we have a copy of his diary and we can pretty accurately gauge the truthfulness of ww2 propaganda as a result
He was behind the nazi propaganda machine so I think it's fair to say thay he was rather efficient and influential to the regime, perhaps not quite so much during the war but definitely in terms of their rise to and consolidation of power.
Wasn't he the Stephen Miller of the Nazi Party?
What does Timmy’s pet turkey have to do with this?!
DON’T TOUCH GORING. He promised Hitler he could eliminate the remaining British troops with air power alone and made the Dunkirk evacuation possible. He promised Hitler he could force Britain’s surrender and lost the Battle of Britain. He did more to keep Britain in the war until the US joined than Winston Churchill.
This is why tampering with the past is problematical, because the vacuum will always be filled, perhaps for the worse.
He said his Luftwaffe could supply the 6th Army at Stalingrad, so there is no reason to have them fall back.
Nah he was so incompetent that it would have been worse if he was replaced by someone competent. Albert Speer minister of armaments would be a good choice to take out. He kept the late war economy humming.
And he was one of the few high ranking Nazis to not be executed.
Prominent in terms of waistline too.
The US army has a great weight loss program for imprisoned nazi officials.
Didn't work for Werner Van Braun.
Goering was actually a useless morphine addict after a year or so, killing him might be an improvement. Personally I'd go after himmler or goebbels since we know we can beat rommel.
I would suggest Goobles, Taking out Himler in 1939 would be a really bad idea. Because his replacement would be his most competent and trusted underling who Hitler also had a fondness for, Reinhardt Hydrich.
I'd keep Göring because he was very ineffective at his job, meaning letting him live prevents someone more competent from taking his place, which helps shorten the war/save lives through his incompetence.
Unfun fact: Himmler's previous career was chicken farmer. Explains the shake'n'bake approach he took.
"Herr Himmler, we need you to check that the Zyklon is fresh enough to be effective. Does this smell fresh enough to you?"
>probably Himmler, the slimy little fuck who organised much of the Holocaust, because fuck that guy. Eichmann might be a better choice here. He was the guy responsible for the logistics and organization of the holocaust, and he was competent at it. Kill him, and maybe someone less competent gets that job. Kill Himmler, and he might have been replaced by someone like Heydrich.
I was gonna say that it depends on when himmler is killed but by '39 heydrich probably would have replaced him.
Most likely, and I suspect Heydrich would have been worse. Heydrich wouldn't be getting distracted playing knights in his castle and hosting pagan mass wedding rituals. Himmler was an evil fuck, but Heydrich was the guy Hitler called "the man with the iron heart."
I'd go Manstein. Holocaust was going to happen regardless of Himmler. Either that or Goebbels who kept the country energized for war after Hitler stopped making public appearances Save that Herman Goering guy, tho. Thank God he was incompetent.
Guderian would be a good one to get as well, he developed their blitz tactics.
Take out Heinz Guderian and maybe the Germans don't see success in France. If it weren't for Heinz's brilliant blitzkreig tactics or his mad dash across France, British and French forces might have had a better chance organizing a strong defense.
Came here just to state Himmler also. 😂
Himmler was my first choice as well. I would still go for him even if hitler was a option.
"Fucking Himmler"
Josef Mengele. Sure there’s more men that directly contributed to the war, but Mengele was a literal mad man tearing apart humans in the camps for bogus “experiments”. A world without him would save a lot of people an extremely cruel death beyond what even a lot of the general people in the camps saw. Edit: And unless I’m mistaken, he escaped and never faced punishment so he deserves the death he didn’t get.
Dude... how did I not know he got away? This guy is absolutely the most evil of them all. Wow. He got to Argentina. Lived in and around Buenos Aires, then fled to Paraguay (Basically everyone was after him). Made it to 67 years old. He drown though. Supposedly from a stroke. I can only hope it was actually Mossad. Now I'm frustrated. Thanks history! Anyways... yeah. THAT GUY. He's the one that needs to die well before WW2 even kicks off.
Right? Like out of all the baddies, he was the most sick twisted of em all. And the fact he got to live so long is just stupid. But yeah so he’d be my pick to die haha
Look up Shiro Ishii too. He was the Japanese Mengele. Also never prosecuted and lived to be old.
Mossad would put his head on a pike for the world to see, and probably rightfully so.
Or even if they had to slip in and out super fast and couldnt take the body or a trophy, they would happily tell everyone that they did it.
"We were not necessarily responsible, but we are pleased with the result" - following the death of yet another Iranian physicist
Seriously I thought he got his due as well. Insane what he did.
Same, and itd be real hard to resist doing it by taking his tongue, disfiguring him and then feeding him to his own camps or maybe dropping him off with his good friends the 731 boys.
Came here to suggest the same person. There are a lot of horrific experiments done on humans in history, but there is a lot of knowledge we have to accept could not have been gotten without them and we benefit from that knowledge even today. Not from Mengele. His twisted experiments were just for torture under the veil of scientific discovery. I hope he lived every day in fear after the war.
Agree on the mad doctor for sure.
The guy driving the car at high speed with Hitler as a passenger.
Creative, good Redditor, have my up vote 😂
You won the internet good sir! Updoot! Take my poor man’s gold!
Very chungus wholesome
I love a good loophole.
Had to scroll way too far to find this (i I was going to say his pilot, but wasn't sure he ever flew)
Joseph Goebbels. Everyone's focused on people that participated directly in Holocaust events, or generals, but Goebbels was in charge of the propaganda. Without his hand, getting the German people to turn on their neighbors would have been damn near impossible. If you stop the Nazi Party from winning the hearts and minds, you win the war. It's really as simple as that.
Ya and in 33 he'd be my pick. By 39 the war was on and that opportunity would have passed.
No cause Joseph Goebbels propaganda is still parroted today in the US. If he could have been taken out at any point it would have been good for the future of the world.
I mean yes. If I can kill multiple people he's still on the list, just once the war is on Manstein, Rommell and Himmler are all higher in the list. Goebbels work was already available, the way to devalue it would be to undermine German success in the war, make them a footnote instead of the most famous bad guys in recent memory.
Personally I'd argue his contributions would be easiest to replace. People are stupid. Propaganda is easy.
'39 would be too late for that to have a great deal of effect.
Yeah. Hitler and the others had their evil plans but Goebbels was the one who manipulated normal, inteligent people into accepting what was going on. In my eyes he was more evil than Hitler himself.
definitly underated. You can not spread hate that easily, Hitler wouldn't have done shit without the people being turned into intellectual slaves
Absolutely. There is no Hitler without Goebbels.
Dr. "angel of death" Mengele or Ivan the Terrible
The actual Ivan or the dude who was mistakenly id'd as him?
Josef Mengele was an infamous Nazi doctor who conducted his "works" in Auschwitz. He had an obsession with twins and dwarves and would often be one of the first at the scene when new cattle cars filled with people arrived. Ironically, and I do not say this to minimize his actions in any way, there are some individuals who would not have survived beyond arrival. Children and those with perceived deformities were frequently sent to the gas chambers immediately. Though done for selfish reasons, Mengele's obsession led to the survival of some twins and individuals with deformities past the end of the war. After reading some survivor accounts, there were some children under his observation that would rush to him when they noticed that twins or other individuals of his interest were about to be gassed. Mengele would hurry to save the twins. (Note that when I say save, I don't use it as a term meant to display any level of morality or empathy for the individuals. The man was described in many accounts to give the children candy and often requested he be called Uncle Mengele. Now Mengele did a number of experiments on twins, but one of his most most horrific involved two brothers. Essentially, he attempted to create conjoined twins by stitching the boys together . Reports state that they screamed in pain day and night for several days before finally succumbing to infection. In the case of identical twins, if one twin died, the other would also be killed, an autopsy would occur to see if the cause of death could be seen on the other individual. (Note I might be mistaken on the "reasoning" for the other twins murder. It has been years since I read the books I refer to) He also did a number of experiments involving changing eye color. The process was done by injecting chemicals directly into the eye. Usually, just ending in extreme pain and burning in a large percentage blindness resulted. These are just the things I remember.
Ivan the terrible, as in, the Russian tsar?
Some random ass soldier who was already on death's door. Why? Because everything in history that has happened has led the world to what it is today. If Hitler and WW2 didn't happen then someone worse would've came along or we wouldn't have the hindsight to add to the regulations and laws we have today. Specific people who's life accomplishment and families wouldn't have those today. People who met foreigners after escaping Europe and marrying and having families wouldn't have happened. History and the events of it was terrible and disgusting but too much would be altered if we take out the "wrong person". What happens if you take out a general and the person that takes their place was instrumental in allowing the Nazis to actually win and alter the fate of the world completely? Nope. I'll find someone that's already knocking on death's door and put em out of their misery.
Excellent points. You start playing with history who knows what our present would be
Bigger picture, without WWII we don't have the Bretton Woods accord, so no Pax Americana. While things could be better, post-WWII has been an era of unprecedented peace between nations. Wars have been relatively small and infrequent. I'm absolutely not saying that the modern world order has been perfect, but I'd be scared to roll the dice.
Even bigger: We didn't drop more nuclear bombs after WW2 because we saw what they do. If that had not happened, they would have been dropped when everybody had plenty of the bomb.
exactly. without the nazis, there would've been no one strong enough to fight the soviets (the US might've intervened, but not necessarily) and communism would've likely spread across all of europe, and then towards large parts of asia
I agree that Himmler is the one that needs to go. He was one of those that started this whole thing and had more control over Hitler than people think.
Probably my great (x2) aunt Ilse Koch aka the Witch of Buchenwald.
You're related to the Bitch of Buchenwald? Wow
Yeah, my mom's cousin discovered it about 15 years ago while doing genealogy research.
Whoaaaaa, usually the worst thing people learn in those genealogy reports is that somebody is not somebody's dad. But this????
I think it would be worse to find out your kid is not yours than to discover an old relative you never met was evil. One is a conversation-starter, the other's a family-ender.
That's super interesting, that must have been a shock to say the least
It definitely was. When I first found out it felt almost shameful. But then I'm like "ok, she died 14 years before I was born, it's not like I had anything to do with her crazy shit" lol
This. It ain't you, no shame there.
If I end up time-travelling back to 1939 and absolutely have to kill someone, I either kill some random, inconsequential nobody and then stay the fuck out of history's way or myself. if I've learnt anything from fantasy media / TV tropes it's that going back in time to make things better by killing someone 90% of the time just makes things worse, Then you try "fixing" it again, making it even worse over and over until eventually, you have to go back to just before you started time travelling the first time and stop/kill yourself to undo the whole convoluted mess. This rule is applied double hard if it involves Nazis.
Hitler's driver, as he's about to round a corner on a steep bank, with Hitler in the back.
Josef Mengele. And without giving it a second thought
Rudolph Hess. I’m related to that rat bastard.
I pay a Nazi a huge sum of money to kill Hitler and then I kill the guy that killed Hitler.
Why would a Nazi kill Hitler tho?
Technically, a Nazi *did* kill Hitler.
They tried a few times
The flaw in your plan is that many Nazis tried to kill Hitler and they all failed or couldn't even carry out their attempt.
How is nobody picking 'Hitler's Chauffeur/Pilot at the exact moment that the car/plane losing control would be catastrophic'? Or even just a random motorist or a pilot flying over one of his rallies who would have crashed into him if they'd expired suddenly at a key moment. He was usually surrounded by party members whose continued consciousness had to have been key to his survival in subtle ways. If you're a dictator, you *utterly depend* on your lackeys, which is what makes the tough guy attitude so necessary and pathetic at the same time.
Anybody not considering [Reinhard Heydrich](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Heydrich) for this hypothetical, simply does not understand how the machine that ran the Holocaust came about. It was systematically organized by this man and deployed via his delegations at the [Wansee Conference](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference). Many of the suggestions here are simply vocabulary terms taken from a high school classroom and would not have altered history to the point of slowing down the mass exterminations.
Precisely. They're all just picking big names. You know about mengele and Eichman because they escaped. Heydrich was threatening enough that they had to assassinate him during the war. If you pick himmler, you're just opening the door for Heydrich. An early anthropoid could seriously hamper the holocaust as we knew it and turned it into a haphazard affair of shooting who death squads run into. Not good but way lower numbers. The only other argument I could see is for guys like Speer or Manstein who weren't the most ideologically pure nazis but whose contributions probably extended the duration of the war and thus the holocaust
Speer would be my second choice only because it was his direct intervention that propped up the Nazi war industry towards the end of the war, outproducing 39 at the end of 44 despite bombing and invasion
My thoughts, too. Him or Eichmann. Eichmann was the guy making sure the trains ran on time.
I've literally been scrolling this looking for Heydrich and wondering if I was actually going to have to be the first to say his name. Heydrich. The answer to this is Heydrich- If you are looking to stop or subvert the Holocaust that is. No one else had such a great impact, which is remarkable given he was dead before 1943 when the majority of the death camps were operational. But the fact that the original death camp operations were named "Operation Reinhard" tells you everything you need to know. Kill Himmler and all that happens is that Heydrich replaces him, doesn't die in 1942 and the genocide part of the holocaust is actually even worse. If you want to stop the war early then I genuinely am not sure that there is any Nazi other than Hitler you could kill to do so. There are events you could change but I don't think there is a Zhukov figure for the Germans that you could take out and change the course of the war. Once you get to about 1942 the one person you don't want rid of is Hitler, since his dreadful decision making was crucial to the allies turning the tide
I'm shocked I had to come this far down to find Heydrich. Either him or Eichmann is getting the bullet, but definitely Heydrich first.
To echo everyone else, why did I have to scroll so far to find Heydrich? More evil than anyone else in the Third Reich in terms of overall woe done to the world. (Mengele may have been more viscerally evil, but Heydrich was the architect and instigator of the Final Solution, and as these things can be measured, did far more damage to many more people than Mengele's experiments.) This bastard was so evil he was a priority target for Czech partisans backed by the British SOE, and I'm glad they got him, may he burn in Hell.
Evil and highly competent.
Thank you. This is the right answer.
Ribbentrop. Without him, the "Pact of Steel" may have either not been signed or been delayed enough to allow France and the British empire to be more ready for war. He was also heavily involved in sabotaging peace talks between Japan and the US, along with convincing Hitler to declare war on the US.
Mickey Mouse say goodbye
A part of me really wants to say Mengele because he committed a lot of atrocities, but his actions didn't impact the war itself very much. I'm not sure if it would've been better if he'd never had the chance to do all of his evil, or if the war ended sooner because of the death of an important general or something.
The big argument for Mengele is that if you killed someone else like Himmler, they most likely would have been replaced. I doubt another psycho doctor takes Mengele’s place if he’s found dead. The net change of killing Himmler would be Hitler finding a slightly less competent person to still carry out the Holocaust uninterrupted. Mengele was not necessary to the war effort or to Hitlers plan, so he likely wouldn’t be replaced, leading to a greater net change in suffering
The person who said he wasn't a good artist
That's an entire academy.
Too late by 1939
The guy who convinced Hitler to do the holocaust in the first place BEFORE he manages to convince him. Edit: the person I was trying to think off was [ERICH LUDENDORFF](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/erich-ludendorff) who was the one that propagated the lie of jews stabbing people in the back which was one of the main reasons Hitler did what he did to the jews
>The guy who convinced Hitler to do the holocaust in the first place BEFORE he manages to convince him. Killing Henry Ford 8 years early wouldn't change much, everything he did that inspired Hitler, he'd already done.
You know, if Henry Ford was an option I think there's some merit to picking him.
That wouldn't work. The Stabbed In the Back myth started with the end of WWI. By 1939, that would be too entrenched in the minds of the germans who believed it.
Hitler was already anti-semitic long before. One of his main reasons for his hatred was because Jews would lowball him for his paintings, as absurd as it sounds.
Heinz Brandt
For context: There was an assassination attempt on Hitler in 1944. Explosives were smuggled into the room with Hitler. Brandt inadvertently moved the case behind a table leg just before it exploded. Killing himself in the process and saving Hitler. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz\_Brandt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Brandt)
Operation Valkyrie the guy that prevented it from working
I think we're all thinking Himmler for very obvious reasons, right? I'd also pick Heydrich or Eichmann, since they designed the state apparatus to murder six million people. Maybe Speer since he designed the Nazi economy. But who's the shady slimy back stabbing little Nazi scumbag that everyone has to talk to in order to get to Hitler? Who created a massive bureaucracy to control the information around the Fuhrer? Who very reasonably can be argued to be the shadow fuhrer of the Nazi regime? BORMANN. Take him out, and Hitler can't function, the state can't function, and chaos reigns inside the Nazi state. Bormann is your guy.
Hans Bauer, Hitler's pilot. While they were at 20,000 feet or so.
has to be 1939? if it was early I would get rid of ~~Goring~~,Goebbels architect smarty boy of the regimen the rest were sick fucks but little Joseph actually was the one clever fuck Edit: corrected Goring for Goebbels
Probably Goebles, his propaganda was a big part of their success
Doing the most damage to Naziism is probably to kill Goering. Doing the most good in the world is probably killing Himmler. Doing the most to stop the spread of fascism is probably to kill Goebbels. I would kill Gunther Von Kluge. This probably delays the invasion of Poland a few months and gives France and the UK time to get their shit together.
I would take out Paul Hausser. He was a high ranking SS member. Besides he kinda looks somewhat like Grand Moff Tarkin.
Joseph Goebbels, his leader in propaganda. Can greatly reduce Nazi influence that way.
By '39 he'd already done his worst. I'd pick Heinz Brandt, who later saved Hitler from being assassinated by Claus von Stauffenberg.
Might be darkly funny to use Mengele's own methods on him. 'Oh, what's that? You hate having acid injected into your veins? Gee, what a coincidence! I know a lot of other people who agree!'
Enough people aren't saying Joseph Goebbels, chief Propagand Minster and Reich Plenipotentiary for the Total War Effort. Dude was tops cray cray
Hans Asperger. Yes, the same Asperger that the autism disorder is named after. He was a Nazi and collaborated with the Third Reich to exterminate children with disabilities. Fucking monster.
Goebbels. No doubt.
Reinhard Heydrich (aka the young evil god of death), the main architect of the Holocaust. One of the most evil beings to ever live.
Goebbels, because he sold it to the people.
This might be controversial, but if I was in a room with Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, and Martin Bormann, and I had a gun with two bullets, I'd shoot Bormann twice. All of the Nazis were monsters, but Bormann was just an asshole.
Fred Trump
Joseph Goebbels. He was such an evil prick.
Albert Speer. Because while there were much worse individuals, Speer taking over the control of German arms production lengthened the war by a significant amount of time. People like Goering and Himmler while worse than Speer were also incompetent militarily. The power struggles between them also helped shorten the war. Speer though took a German war economy that was in danger of coming apart, and at least delayed the inevitable. He abused the hell out of slave labor. While he wasn't the worst NAZI was definitely right up there with the amount of evil he committed.
Thats easy, Reinhard Heydrich.
How messed up would it be to kill my grandfather? My dad was already born so it's not like I would cease to exist. Man grandfather was trash though.
Maria Putina Vladimir Putin's mother
Goebbels would probably have a big impact
Heinz Guderian
Dr Mengele - evil doctor who hurt kids, I would love to operate on his body with my accounting knowledge.
Josef Rudolf Mengele
Gonna find the guy who got Anne Frank...
39 would be a dangerous time to try making changes. If you kill the wrong person Hitler might never get the idea to betray the USSR and the Allies would have a much bigger problem to deal with.
Hammer, Mengele, Eva Braum
Goebbels. Fuck this guy in particular.
Whoever it was that murdered my great-grandparents and great-uncle.
Earnst Roem who was responsible for the violence that lead to him gathering power. Without Roem maybe Hitler can’t seize power in the beginning
Just wish it could be earlier because Rohm died in 1934.
Oskar Dirlwanger
Whoever diverted the patrol route for Hitler's victory parade in Warsaw: "General Michał Karaszewicz-Tokarzewski and other members of the Polish Army attempted to detonate hidden explosives during Hitler's victory parade in Warsaw. 500 kg of TNT were concealed in a ditch, ready to be detonated by Polish sappers. However, at the last moment, the parade was diverted and the saboteurs missed their target."
Reinhard Heydrich. The architect of the Holocaust, mass murderer and possible the most vile and sinister Nazi in the leadership.
Hmm. Tough to say. Maybe Manstein would have been the most effective Nazi to eliminate. Maybe that keeps France on their feet. Tough to say. Goering is the other option as he was number 2 for a long time. His loss might have made a significant impact. Himmler is probably the 2nd most offensive Nazi next to Hitler but while eliminating him might be satisfying, I feel any fanatic could have easily filled his shoes to the same effect. Heydrich certainly could.
Mengele. He experimented on children.
I'd slap the sh1t out of the British PM Nevil Chamberlin
Reinhard Heydrich.
Honestly, Hitler wasn't the worst of them. It's the middle managment types that actually planned and carried it out. Hitler called Reinhard Heydrich "The man with the Iron Heart". If you haven't watched "Conspiracy" on HBO, you absolutly need to. It's the most horrifying non horror movie ever.
I'm not convinced Hitler was even in charge. I think he was a junkie that was good at being persuasive. I think he was a mouthpiece that was paid in drugs
Oskar Dirlewanger
Goebbels for sure. He had Hitler’s ear on many topics, including the Jewish Question.
Reinhard Heydrich was perhaps the person most singularly responsible for the Holocaust, both in ideation and execution. Hard not to pick him. Himmler (who Heydrich reported to, who in turn was in Hitlers inner circle) would be at a virtual tie though, for the same reason of Holocaust architecting.
Red Skull.
If you wanted to shut down the Nazi regime early in the game, Hitler shouldn't be your first choice anyways. Hitler was the charismatic figure head, but the real person behind selling Hitler and the National Socialist Workers party (aka the Nazis) to the German people was Hitler's propaganda minister, ***Josef Goebels***. Goebels was the one who taught Hitler how to speak, act, wrote much of Hitler's speeches, and even controlled the German media to feed lies to the German people about Hitler and the state of the war. It was even said that Goebels was even more anti-Semitic than Hitler himself, if that could be possible. Goebels, however, was far too sickly to even join the German military and had a clubbed foot so he knew that he would never be seen as a military leader. Hitler, as we know him, was largely Goebel's creation. If he hadn't found Hitler to sell to the German people, he would have found someone else. Goebels was also responsible for salvaging any little support that he could muster from the German people toward the end of the war, as the German populace quickly began to lose faith in and turn against their Fuhrer. He fed them constant lies about German successes in battles, when in reality, every soldier on the ground and their Generals knew the war was lost. Had he not kept the German people in some semblance of hope, the German people may have erupted into civil unrest and fell from within before the red army could even reach Berlin.
That's easy. Goebbels. Without their propaganda, the Nazi regime would have been substantially weaker. He was more valuable to them than they knew
Joseph Mengele, dude had no right to die in a Brazilian Resort.
Mengele. Few have deserved a more painful death than that sicko.
Josef mangel. Brilliant doctor and scientist or not. It is truly immoral to experiment with prisoners of war
Hey, I've got a good one. I would figure out who was responsible for whatever happened to make Hitler not get killed by the bomb blast, maybe the guy that stood in the spot where it would have been effective or something. I don't know if that could be figured out but I definitely go for that.
Josef Mengele. He was doing sick experiments on twin children at Auschwitz
Franz von Pappen. The man who gave Hitler his first job which gave him too much power to be restrained. No one else wanted to hire him. Franz is the reason he had the chance to prove himself. Prior to this, the Nazis were just laughing stocks.
Toss up between Goebbels and Heinrich Himmler. Maybe Reinhard Heidrich, but the Czech resistance took care of him for us. I lean toward Goebbels since the absence of his propaganda genius would likely be the most tangible blow the loss of any one person could deal to the nazi cause. Himmler comes close just because of how sociopathically cruel he was in his administration of the concentration camp system. His death would be immensely personally satisfying, but I don't think it would have nearly as drastic and noticeable of an effect on the overall course of the war than the loss of Goebbels, or perhaps someone like Manstein.
In 1939 it might not be worth it to kill Hitler. He made a lot of really bad decisions that lost him the war. Kill him and maybe somebody worse takes over. The nazi to kill, IMO, is Goebbels. His propaganda mastery was one of a kind and everyone learned way too much terrible shit from him and implemented it in their own countries. Without him working tirelessly to improve Hitler's image, I think support for the war might crumble much faster.
Himmler
I'll kill the Nazi who moved the briefcase bomb to the other side of the table and inadvertently saved Hitler.
Flip a coin for Mengele or Goebbels
Adolf Eichmann
Heinrich Himmler
Goebbels was the Facebook of the day. He crafted misinformation perfectly, and fully understood its power. If you take him out, you pull out 99.9% of the power behind the Nazis.
Goebels.
Otto Eichman. Hitler said "kill the Jews" Otto is the one who planned and carried it out
your mom
Maybe not a Nazi. I would kill Romnel. The Germans/Italians collapse much faster if they can't hold North Africa. The Brits then invade Greece or Italy and Germany can't launch operation Barborosa. Which means when Russia finally decided to enter the war they are much stronger.
Joseph Goebbels: He was the mastermind behind the propaganda that propelled the Nazis into such power. Without that, Hitler would have just been some guy with a funny mustache yelling on a street corner.
Goebbels, himler, guering any of them.
No contest: Joseph Goebbels. An odious little toerag of the highest order
Goebbels. Duh.
Wernher von Braun
Probably none because if not for the camps my grandparents would have never met. It's a horrible thought but if not for the Nazis rounding up my now family I wouldn't be here.
Mengele.
Heydrich before his demise in 1942 before he could design and contribute to the holocaust. Himmler for the same reasons or goebbels for the massive propaganda influence
adolf eichmann
Reinhard Heydrich, architect of thr Holocaust. He was assassinated in 1942 (I think it was) or 1943, but by then he had already set the industrial might of thr Holocaust into motion. Either him or Adolf Eichmann, his assistant that was the brains behind the Holocaust. While it wouldn't necessarily stop the mass murder of people in Nazi occupied territories, it would probably prevent the wholesale mass extermination on an industrial level it became. So maybe 2 million dead instead of tens of millions dead....
At this point, Trump's father