I suspect many of the more persistent bugs that keep coming up reflect a catastrophic five year tech debt that they'd rather not deal with ever and probably can't be addressed in just a couple weeks.
Well yes. But just because no one wants to touch the wasp does not mean we should not take the time to clean up the ladybugs or the ants or the bedbugs. Squash what we can before the entire system breaks.
I would gladly sacrifice any and all content additions for the next 6 months if it meant even half the bugs and issues in this game were fixed. It's shocking how long some of the issues on console have persisted without being fixed. I can only imagine the number of players they lost or failed to hook because of these issues. They should have shifted their resources to bug fixes long ago. I don't need another 2 variants released. I need offline progress fixed. I need the modron core settings bug fixed. I need the constant crashes and memory leaks fixed.
I would probably not mind if it's announced ahead of time.
The problem is, [I don't think their patrons would take it well at all](https://company.wizards.com/en).
Maybe - maybe not better a quality product people want surely - very short term 'pain' for a long term gain is acceptable it's investing time and resources into your brand and product so you keep customers and sell more long term
1- Probably they are different teams.
2- The event thing is probably largely automated, only needing to add a champ (skills, feat, image, etc)
The thing is that new features have higher priority than ironing bugs, because new features can lead to more new players and revenue, and some minor bugs fixed will not have such impact. No need to do mental gymnastics to justify the bugs ironing, ROI is what decides that.
Unless enough noise is made by the community so it may endanger new comers.
I'm a fairly patent person with a bunch of other things to keep me entertained, so I'd love it if some long-standing issues were addressed. There's probably a laundry list of problems that the devs want to address as well; for a game that's existed as long as this, there's likely a lot of technical debt that has built up from all the systems bolted on and it'd likely make future development a lot less painful if they're able to pay down some of that tech debt.
The biggest reason that they wouldn't though is probably the cash flow issue. They're not a big company and likely a big share of their revenue goes to the licensee of the IP. I have no idea what their financials look like though; if they have the headroom and they don't project too much player fall-off from the lack of "new stuff", I think it'd be worth it in the long run. No one gets bonuses for "paying down tech debt" though, so based on my experience it's something that only happens when things get bad enough to warrant it.
You want to see the bugs fixed, here's what you need to do.
Make noise.
Go to your platform of choice and write a review. Then each time a new content release is made, update your review. [Date]"# new missions that don't impact the game were made, but yet we are still dealing with X bugs that have not been fixed after Y time." and keep adding this new line to the review but don't remove the others until the bugs are actually fixed.
Keep doing this on each platform for which you legit play the game. I am not suggesting review bombing or fake reviews or anything. I am saying be informational and be loud.
If you really want to be louder still, respond to them on twitter in the same watch. Each new content release they announce/brag about, respond to it with the bugs you are still facing.
Be loud, but not violent.
I like what you say. I hope someone has a list of the current bugs. I tried to write one up but have a lot off dificulty writting complex stuff that make sence to anyone else but me
The people who create new champions aren't the people who can fix bugs. Nor are the people who run the events. Similarly the creation of variants has very little to do with the underlying problems in the game engine and is unlikely to be performed by the people who could fix said bugs.
Skipping an event or two, or not releasing variants for a while, won't help in fixing the stability problems the game has that requires the hiring of more people who can work on those parts of the code.
I'd expect the crew to be quite small and the person punching in the new champ and events is likely one of a few, I believe the term is multiskilled, or wearing many hats. staff who do everything, and I'd be suprised if there was staff dedicated to say building a new charc (not the planning and design but the nitty gritty getting it into game)
Getting the character into the game is a tiny part of creating new characters though, the design is what is time consuming and skipping that isn't really going to make a significant difference in how much time there is for other tasks. Similarly, I would be shocked if it takes the actual programmers a lot of time to implement new variants.
The extra time that could potentially be saved by skipping an event will barely make a dent when it comes to optimizing the game. The simple fact is they're clearly understaffed and that is what needs to be fixed. Skipping a few events will maybe give them a week of progress, but even that's pretty optimistic.
This is not entirely true. v448 included three new classes for a champion three events out. This is pretty typical for each new champion. There were also changes to the base class these classes are derived from, along with all the classes derived from this base class. This sort of thing isn't typical, but not uncommon. DM is the previous champion that required changes to existing code as well that I can remember off the top of my head.
It isn't uncommon for new variant content to include a new boss or attack type that requires new code too. When Justin talks about how they work quite a bit on bosses and didn't want briv to skip them, it shows in the game files, and not just art.
The people adding to and editing the code base for new champions and variants definitely should be able to also fix bugs in said code base.
Skipping events would not be the best idea, since that is on a fairly tight schedule. It also makes champions from previous years available. A better option in my opinion is to stop working on new features and instead focusing on the current issue. That's at least the way how the devs at my workplace go at it
Isn't this what OP suggested?
"there won't be a new champion it will be a 're-run' of the last event and they'll also not be releasing new variants that month"
Thus old champs from previous years will still be available either via the event itself or via TG.
Not entirely. My suggestion leans more towards not doing the "regular" Wednesday updates with new features and special tweaks (though new adventures and variants are still fine), and instead focus on batches of bug fixes for those Wednesdays.
If CNE would do a period of 're-run' events without adding new champions, I think they should do that for an entire year. Otherwise it just feels off that some events you have new champions and in others you don't.
I also think new champions are not the cause of our issues, it's other changes to the system (mostly) that cause these major bugs. Yes, developing new champions takes time, but I don't think the same team working on champions is also working on new or changes to existing mechanics. But I am not certain of this, I don't know the inner workings of CNE.
Rather than just do a straight rerun of an event I would prefer them to choose one champion from that event from a previous year that needs the most balancing and rework them. They could announce who that champion will be at the end of the prior event and designate the time until the next event starts as dismantle time for that champion. Then when the event starts unlock all the variants for that champion and otherwise treat them as new. Maybe add a new skin for them to the shop or something as well.
Good idea!
For new players who have not done that event yet - it is absolutely irrelevant.
For older ones - the question is if we can live with our 102(?) champions or desperately need a new one.
I was just thinking this. I really have so much else to do still that missing an event wouldn't cause me any loss of sleep. This newest update completely killing all 3 parties' overnight pushes kind of drives this home for me. I have a time gate open that I cannot even earn favor with right now.
The idea that the people responsible for the events are the same people dealing with the more underlying architecture of the game itself seems like a flawed premise, even ignoring the designers and artists involved in a new character, even the ones implementing the mechanics of a new character are not likely to be involved in the more fundamental and broken parts of the game.
Sadly, the only thing to skip that would encourage the devs to address the increasingly broken state of the game recently would be player spending, it is only when the bugs start hurting their income will they take them seriously enough.
Aye I've stopped - couple of things come and gone I'd normally have considered, but I'd be suprised if the resource putting the new champs into the game arn't also the people who bug fix the team feels too small to be 'Bob the new toon guy' and 'John the bug squisher'
To be honest if i could go to bed with my Briv gem farm team going and wake up to find it had gone 8-9 hours without a problem I would be ecstatic. I should be pulling in 100k gems a day but it just never happens with the network issues. And the day CNE has it all working properly my internet will probably go down.
This has been brought up before but CNE doesn't see a connection between the bugs and the output of heroes. It's two different pipelines. Personally, the bugs have killed this game for me. I haven't bothered logging in the last few days. CNE will need to really make a drastic change in their approach to quality control and overall design execution for me to continue to support this game in any capacity moving forward.
In all honesty "There's not going to be new champions, variants, etc. to look forward to" would hurt my enjoyment of the game more than the bugs I have seen have.
I suspect many of the more persistent bugs that keep coming up reflect a catastrophic five year tech debt that they'd rather not deal with ever and probably can't be addressed in just a couple weeks.
Well yes. But just because no one wants to touch the wasp does not mean we should not take the time to clean up the ladybugs or the ants or the bedbugs. Squash what we can before the entire system breaks.
I would gladly sacrifice any and all content additions for the next 6 months if it meant even half the bugs and issues in this game were fixed. It's shocking how long some of the issues on console have persisted without being fixed. I can only imagine the number of players they lost or failed to hook because of these issues. They should have shifted their resources to bug fixes long ago. I don't need another 2 variants released. I need offline progress fixed. I need the modron core settings bug fixed. I need the constant crashes and memory leaks fixed.
I'd happily not got any new champions so offline works on a ps4 again
I would probably not mind if it's announced ahead of time. The problem is, [I don't think their patrons would take it well at all](https://company.wizards.com/en).
Maybe - maybe not better a quality product people want surely - very short term 'pain' for a long term gain is acceptable it's investing time and resources into your brand and product so you keep customers and sell more long term
Wizards doesn't particularly care as long as the flow of money is uninterrupted. Skipping events would interrupt the flow of money.
Fixing bugs and an event schedule are not mutually exclusive. Stop providing them with excuses.
1- Probably they are different teams. 2- The event thing is probably largely automated, only needing to add a champ (skills, feat, image, etc) The thing is that new features have higher priority than ironing bugs, because new features can lead to more new players and revenue, and some minor bugs fixed will not have such impact. No need to do mental gymnastics to justify the bugs ironing, ROI is what decides that. Unless enough noise is made by the community so it may endanger new comers.
I'm a fairly patent person with a bunch of other things to keep me entertained, so I'd love it if some long-standing issues were addressed. There's probably a laundry list of problems that the devs want to address as well; for a game that's existed as long as this, there's likely a lot of technical debt that has built up from all the systems bolted on and it'd likely make future development a lot less painful if they're able to pay down some of that tech debt. The biggest reason that they wouldn't though is probably the cash flow issue. They're not a big company and likely a big share of their revenue goes to the licensee of the IP. I have no idea what their financials look like though; if they have the headroom and they don't project too much player fall-off from the lack of "new stuff", I think it'd be worth it in the long run. No one gets bonuses for "paying down tech debt" though, so based on my experience it's something that only happens when things get bad enough to warrant it.
You want to see the bugs fixed, here's what you need to do. Make noise. Go to your platform of choice and write a review. Then each time a new content release is made, update your review. [Date]"# new missions that don't impact the game were made, but yet we are still dealing with X bugs that have not been fixed after Y time." and keep adding this new line to the review but don't remove the others until the bugs are actually fixed. Keep doing this on each platform for which you legit play the game. I am not suggesting review bombing or fake reviews or anything. I am saying be informational and be loud. If you really want to be louder still, respond to them on twitter in the same watch. Each new content release they announce/brag about, respond to it with the bugs you are still facing. Be loud, but not violent.
I like what you say. I hope someone has a list of the current bugs. I tried to write one up but have a lot off dificulty writting complex stuff that make sence to anyone else but me
The people who create new champions aren't the people who can fix bugs. Nor are the people who run the events. Similarly the creation of variants has very little to do with the underlying problems in the game engine and is unlikely to be performed by the people who could fix said bugs. Skipping an event or two, or not releasing variants for a while, won't help in fixing the stability problems the game has that requires the hiring of more people who can work on those parts of the code.
I'd expect the crew to be quite small and the person punching in the new champ and events is likely one of a few, I believe the term is multiskilled, or wearing many hats. staff who do everything, and I'd be suprised if there was staff dedicated to say building a new charc (not the planning and design but the nitty gritty getting it into game)
Getting the character into the game is a tiny part of creating new characters though, the design is what is time consuming and skipping that isn't really going to make a significant difference in how much time there is for other tasks. Similarly, I would be shocked if it takes the actual programmers a lot of time to implement new variants. The extra time that could potentially be saved by skipping an event will barely make a dent when it comes to optimizing the game. The simple fact is they're clearly understaffed and that is what needs to be fixed. Skipping a few events will maybe give them a week of progress, but even that's pretty optimistic.
And on the flip side for CNE, I am sure the majority of their revenue comes from releasing new champions.
„˙suoıdɯɐɥɔ ʍǝu ƃuısɐǝlǝɹ ɯoɹɟ sǝɯoɔ ǝnuǝʌǝɹ ɹıǝɥʇ ɟo ʎʇıɹoɾɐɯ ǝɥʇ ǝɹns ɯɐ I 'ƎᴎↃ ɹoɟ ǝpıs dılɟ ǝɥʇ uo pu∀„
This is not entirely true. v448 included three new classes for a champion three events out. This is pretty typical for each new champion. There were also changes to the base class these classes are derived from, along with all the classes derived from this base class. This sort of thing isn't typical, but not uncommon. DM is the previous champion that required changes to existing code as well that I can remember off the top of my head. It isn't uncommon for new variant content to include a new boss or attack type that requires new code too. When Justin talks about how they work quite a bit on bosses and didn't want briv to skip them, it shows in the game files, and not just art. The people adding to and editing the code base for new champions and variants definitely should be able to also fix bugs in said code base.
Taking into account the number of bugs in the game, it will probably take a year or two. In the best case.
It's badly needed at this point. We really don't need any more middling bullshit characters.
Skipping events would not be the best idea, since that is on a fairly tight schedule. It also makes champions from previous years available. A better option in my opinion is to stop working on new features and instead focusing on the current issue. That's at least the way how the devs at my workplace go at it
Could be a good middle ground actually, fair shout
Isn't this what OP suggested? "there won't be a new champion it will be a 're-run' of the last event and they'll also not be releasing new variants that month" Thus old champs from previous years will still be available either via the event itself or via TG.
Not entirely. My suggestion leans more towards not doing the "regular" Wednesday updates with new features and special tweaks (though new adventures and variants are still fine), and instead focus on batches of bug fixes for those Wednesdays. If CNE would do a period of 're-run' events without adding new champions, I think they should do that for an entire year. Otherwise it just feels off that some events you have new champions and in others you don't. I also think new champions are not the cause of our issues, it's other changes to the system (mostly) that cause these major bugs. Yes, developing new champions takes time, but I don't think the same team working on champions is also working on new or changes to existing mechanics. But I am not certain of this, I don't know the inner workings of CNE.
Rather than just do a straight rerun of an event I would prefer them to choose one champion from that event from a previous year that needs the most balancing and rework them. They could announce who that champion will be at the end of the prior event and designate the time until the next event starts as dismantle time for that champion. Then when the event starts unlock all the variants for that champion and otherwise treat them as new. Maybe add a new skin for them to the shop or something as well.
Good idea! For new players who have not done that event yet - it is absolutely irrelevant. For older ones - the question is if we can live with our 102(?) champions or desperately need a new one.
I was just thinking this. I really have so much else to do still that missing an event wouldn't cause me any loss of sleep. This newest update completely killing all 3 parties' overnight pushes kind of drives this home for me. I have a time gate open that I cannot even earn favor with right now.
The idea that the people responsible for the events are the same people dealing with the more underlying architecture of the game itself seems like a flawed premise, even ignoring the designers and artists involved in a new character, even the ones implementing the mechanics of a new character are not likely to be involved in the more fundamental and broken parts of the game. Sadly, the only thing to skip that would encourage the devs to address the increasingly broken state of the game recently would be player spending, it is only when the bugs start hurting their income will they take them seriously enough.
Aye I've stopped - couple of things come and gone I'd normally have considered, but I'd be suprised if the resource putting the new champs into the game arn't also the people who bug fix the team feels too small to be 'Bob the new toon guy' and 'John the bug squisher'
To be honest if i could go to bed with my Briv gem farm team going and wake up to find it had gone 8-9 hours without a problem I would be ecstatic. I should be pulling in 100k gems a day but it just never happens with the network issues. And the day CNE has it all working properly my internet will probably go down.
This has been brought up before but CNE doesn't see a connection between the bugs and the output of heroes. It's two different pipelines. Personally, the bugs have killed this game for me. I haven't bothered logging in the last few days. CNE will need to really make a drastic change in their approach to quality control and overall design execution for me to continue to support this game in any capacity moving forward.
I dunno. I don't think there's much to salvage here at this point.
[удалено]
I've played it kinda non stop for a year. I really don't know what they're doing here.
*How could you say something so controversial yet so brave?*
In all honesty "There's not going to be new champions, variants, etc. to look forward to" would hurt my enjoyment of the game more than the bugs I have seen have.
No new event heroes until bug fixes? Not happy. No new DLC or stuff in the shop until bug fixes? Now we're talking.