Question:
the first twenty seconds of the record "OK? OK! OK OK!" by mannequin pussy sounds like another different tune. can anyone listen to it? Im not crazy.
Question:
Is so-called "shoegaze" defined by an influence from the genres which preceded it, such as neo-psychedelia, dream pop, space rock, jangle pop, and post-punk, or is it defined by a set of characteristics essential to the genre, such as a wall of guitar sound, quite often layered, vocals, as they say, "melted" into the guitar sound, jazz chords, the usage of feedback as an instrument in its own right, the usage of an extensive set of guitar pedals, etc.?
Everyone knows that My Bloody Valentine, who was the definitive feature of the so-called "scene that celebrates itself", is "shoegaze". I think that most people would agree that. While The Garbage and the Flowers were kind of a part of the same scene, they are not, as it were, "shoegaze". What about Galaxie 500, however? There are definite elements of neo-psychedelia, dream pop, space rock, jangle pop, and post-punk to Galaxie 500 and, yet, they don't seem to fit within the genre of so-called "shoegaze". This, perhaps, could be due to their usage of lead guitar, which the genre might be somewhat exclusive of, but, given a cursory definition of shoegaze as "dream pop, but with a focus on the electric guitar sound", I'm not entirely sure as to why Galaxie 500 shouldn't be counted as "shoegaze".
I'm unsure if this remark is useful much, but have you considered whether a music genre term like 'Shoegaze' is a family-resemblance term? Likewise, I can understand and agree that under a standard definition (predecessor sounds + hallmark characteristics) both My Bloody Valentine, and Galaxie 500 should come out as Shoegaze bands and/or bands that have a "shoegaze sound" as major constituent elements of their records---but I also think it might be fine and useful if someone had a definition that productively made My Bloody Valentine a shoe gaze band but excluded Galaxie 500 (or vice versa).
With focus on Galaxie 500 : the band might be excluded from inclusion with the label 'shoegaze' if our definition has certain further qualifications, like self intention (i.e. "I am making a SHOEGAZE record"), social milleu, further specifications as to e.g. technical equipment and use, and so on.
Did that make sense or did I blather and miss/mistakenly sidestep your main point?
No, I think it makes perfect sense, but what about the general sense of the term, "shoegaze", i.e. what is not our personal opinion about what is or is not shoegaze, but, rather, what you could intuitively say most people, at least, within enough of a know to have some idea as to what shoegaze is, would say is quote unquote shoegaze?
From the so-called "death of the author", I'd suggest that it's possible for a band to be shoegaze without declaring themselves so. Given the diversity of locale of contemporary shoegaze bands, I don't think it necessary to qualify shoegaze as a specific scene of a specific time. Being a guitar player, myself, I'd be vary of any technical qualifications of a given board, as, if it makes the shoegaze sound and you like it, then, I don't see why you shouldn't just go for it.
So, with these things set aside, if Galaxie 500 is not "shoegaze", then, what is it that distinguishes them from it?
Obviously, you can't point to their musical roots. That's where I think that the trouble/interest starts.
Edit: Mazzy Star is, too, perhaps "not shoegaze". Why?
It's not about whether or not anything should be considered as shoegaze, as if it were an objective quality of judgement, bur, rather, as to why other bands, with shoegaze characteristics, aren't considered within the genre?
Late entry just to say
[Stuck In The Middle With You](https://open.spotify.com/track/1b7LMtXCXGc2EwOIplI35z?si=mofS2KOPRvGoMnWbpnoKmA)
Is catchy AF and I un -ironically love it!
I’m on a roll today but: how derivative does something have to be before it is considered borderline plagiarism? Greta van fleet are rightfully ripped into for biting led zeppelin, but I saw mouseatouille opening for BCNR and I was quite unimpressed at how unoriginal they were - maybe it didn’t quite translate to a live setting, but that’s just what a thought. You could ask the same questions about a lot of shoegaze bands too - do lilys and fleeting joys, for example, get enough stick for taking heavy inspiration from loveless? Lot of Slowdive clones out there nowadays too…
I know everyone’s probably tired of genre discussions, but I would like to know the people of r/indieheads opinions on whether the most recent Alvvays album is shoegaze, or simply inspired by shoegaze out of interest (it slaps either way)
_flippant take_ it's like if shoegaze were good
_serious take_ there's like 2-3 shoegaze tracks but it's basically just indie pop with some twee and jangle influences. I do not believe in dream pop as a genre and thus will not be granting it that descriptor.
creating a new type of even more deranged indie purist who **refuses** to listen to musicians/music that does not have a songwriting credit via ASCAP
*75-80% of my cassettes suddenly disappear in my room*
oh gawd what da fuck was I thinking?!?!?!?
Taking me back to my days of singing in city choir growing up and feeling a uniquely prudish and specific shame about using photocopies of choral sheet music bc otherwise how will the composers and arrangers get their due :(
you are in such trouble. you are a hoodlum and thief! your pockets better be filled with gold coins
(the longmont potion castle call taco comavilla where he pretends to be an ASCAP rep has been taken down :/ )
a pet shop boys update, *bilingual* really does sound nice while it’s sunny and you got your apartment windows open while waiting out the last hour of work waiting for an email that doesn’t seem like it’s gonna arrive
however, a new knock on this album unfortunately… i got really used to the “single” edit of “red letter day” that was on the *SMASH* compilation last year. it’s not that different but has a really great synth solo for the outro. unfortunately makes the album take feel a little underwhelming now
Been getting real into songs: ohia recently - wasn’t a massive fan when I first listened, but now Jason Molina has me singing farewell transmission incredibly out of key at full volume
It was also quite funny. Like the "yellow americam spirits--the color of the heart of the white man" is sorta their classic bullshit you'd find scribbled on an LP cover
So there is a band called Heartworms that i’ve seen in this subreddit. I’ve been looking to find the lyrics to the song “May I Comply” for a while because I wanted to learn how to sing the song (I have lots of singing experience and love the song). Does anyone know all the actual lyrics to the song? I can’t find them anywhere.
Thinking today about how “Mystery” by Wipers is one of the best pop punk songs ever made. It’s kinda nuts that it’s like the only song in Wipers entire discography that could be considered a pop song, but they nailed it. The hook is amazing, and the instruments sound so crisp too.
Man the shoegaze community is so needlessly pretentious and pedantic l, always arguing over what is and isn’t shoegaze, and etc. Like does it really matter? Just enjoy the music
I feel seen. (edit: wait, you responded to me in another thread there, so extra lol)
Conversely though, why does something *have* to be labelled shoegaze? I swear a lot of people get all pissy at being told about another genre exists, as if knowing a second genre means it will force valuable information of out of their head.
Agreed! Genre is so subjective that it doesn’t really matter what you label a band with - who is to say that their opinion on genre is more authoritative than someone else’s, for example? (Also ha, my original comment was not in reference to yours as yours was not about genre - clearly we have a difference in opinion in the other matter, but I see why it could have been taken as a dig, so I apologise. My original comment was regarding a rather gatekeepy exchange I saw scrolling through music Instagram)
As the overlord of indie, I declare that collaborating with Phoebe Bridgers officially makes an artist indie. If said artist hasn’t, they are not. Hope this helps 🙏🙏
I have a tendency to want to binge things too quickly, which I guess doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, but sometimes I try to force myself to slow down and savor things. That's what I've been doing with Holy Wave's discography over the last two weeks. I easily could have listened to everything in one day, but I've been taking my time and am still enjoying every second of it! It looks like I have one album and the EPs left.
I also sometimes have a tendency to want to wait before trying something that I think I might really like. I don't know, I guess I just put it off because I don't want it to be over! (I waited literally over a decade after becoming a fan to finally listen to Elliott Smith's *New Moon* because I didn't want to run out of his music!) After a certain point though I have to make myself give it a shot or else I'll probably build it up way too much in my head. Anyway - finally getting to the point here, I swear! - after having them on my list for ages (and having them recommended to me multiple times and compared favorably to some of my favorite bands), I finally decided to try Ulrika Spacek today! I just finished listening to their first album two times in a row. Loved it! Looking forward to more!
I will stop rambling now! Have a nice Thursday. :)
I heard ~~Homeward~~ Outward Bound in the documentary Heaven Adores You and wanted to listen to the rest of it, but it hasn't been released! There's just an old live version with a friend of his singing floating around
Was playing guitar and whistling the vocal melody last night and discovered that when I whistle above a certain frequency, my cat freaks the fuck out and will come running from across the apartment to headbutt my chin.
In particular, she seems to have strong feelings about Billy Joel's "The Stranger." Very, very funny stuff, looking for more songs with high-pitched whistle melodies if you have 'em
Does your cat see it as an aggressive act and the headbutting is her way of fighting back, or is it more like you're summoning her like a familiar in D&D?
With the caveat that I don't know shit about D&D, I think it's like summoning a familiar—she usually sits in my lap afterwards which is a win for both of us because I refuse to turn the heat on in my apartment
What are the Yellow Submarine’s of other albums?
Some in my opinion…
“Digsy’s Dinner” off Oasis’s *Definitely Maybe*
“Cars are Cars” on *Hearts and Bones* by Paul Simon (you could maybe make a case for “Punky’s Dilemma” on *Bookends* too).
“Be My Girl - Sally” by the Police off *Outlandos D’Amore”*
“Cobwebs and Strange” off *A Quick One* by the Who.
“Ride my Llama” on Neil Young’s *Rust Never Sleeps*
I’m TEMPTED to include “Tourette’s” off *In Utero* just because it feels like such a blatant piss-take but I don’t know. Ditto *Let it Be* and “Gary’s Got a Boner”
"Fireman" off Lil Wayne's *Tha Carter II*
"I Ain't Superstitious" off Megadeth's *Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?*
"Leopard-Skin Pill-Box Hat" off Bob Dylan's *Blonde On Blonde* (love it tho)
I know it's a bit tough to really say it's in similar vein given how they do their albums especially content wise but I guess Mr. Richard Smoker off Ween's 12 Golden Country Greats due to how it's the only song that really doesn't have the straight forward country sound.
Sure there's some banjo(or maybe it's technically a mandolin?), slide guitar and fiddle for a moment, but it's infinitely more rag timey show tune than anything else.
It's FJM so it's automatically supposed to be taken seriously, but "True Affection" from *I Love You, Honeybear* is so incongruous that it feels like a spiritual Yellow Submarine equivalent
Been listening almost exclusively to alt-country lately. So far Slaughter Beach, Dog has to be my favorite in the genre
(Honorable mention to Greg Freeman).
Anyone got any deep cut recommendations? Looking for deeper cuts here, I’m already a huge fan of Wilco, Jayhawks, MJ Lenderman, Whiskeytown, etc.
Edit: thank you all for the amazing recs, I have quite the list of new artists to check out!!
This has been my fav genre for years now. Some of my favs:
Good Looks - Bummer Year,
Rose City Band - can’t go wrong with any album ,
Bonny Doon - Let There Be Music,
Cordovas - The Rose of Aces,
Dusk - Glass Pastures,
Ryan Davis and the Roadhouse Band - Dancing on the Edge,
Florry - The Holy Bible,
Big Nothing - Dog Hours,
The Dead Tongues - Dust,
Trampled by Turtles - Any album
I really love KC & Clayton, Marlon Williams - *Plastic Bouquet (2021)*
Pretty simple and straightforward country songs with memorable songwriting and beautiful duet performances from KC and Marlon Williams.
Marlon Williams in general is another artist you might want to explore.
You've got some great recs here...
Seconding Lucinda Williams, Uncle Tupelo and any Gram Parsons project.
Also,
Drive By Truckers - Decoration Day
Morgan Wade - Reckless
Nikki Lane - Denim & Diamonds
Old 97's - Too Far To Care
Loretta Lynne - pick a greatest hits comp
My Darling Clementine - How Do You Plead?
If you want to check out some new stuff from last year I liked
Fust - *Genevieve*
Sluice - *Radial Gate* (leans folky)
You mention Wilco so I hope you're already into Uncle Tupelo and Son Volt. *No Depression* is the album that kick-started alt country.
Also want to recommend a few older foundational albums that were pushing the bounds of country before the alt-country genre took shape:
The Byrds - *Sweetheart of the Rodeo* (1968)
The Dillards - *Wheatstraw Suite* (1968)
The Flying Burrito Brothers - *The Guilded Palace of Sin* (1969)
John Hartford - *Aero-Plain* (1971)
Jerry Jeff Walker - *Viva Terlingua* (1973)
Gene Clark - *No Other* (1974)
Shit, Greg Freeman is my usual go to for this request. Uhh so deep cuts:
Brody Price - Win A Trip to Palm Springs!
Colin Miller - Haw Creek
Richard Buckner - Dents and Shells
I wouldn't say any of these are particularly deep cuts, but Lucinda Williams, Songs: Ohia, Phosphorescent and Silver Jews are all favorites of mine.
And seconding MCK_OH's rec for Cowboy Junkies, they're excellent
e: for some recent slightly-off-the-beaten-path stuff, I've really enjoyed HC McEntire's last two albums, Rachel Baiman's *Common Nation of Sorrow*, Ryan Sambol's *Gestalt*, Cory Hanson's *Pale Horse Rider*, and Jonathan Wilson's *Dixie Blur*
been listening to underworld quite a bit recently. it's been a good fit for my current headspace and something easy to throw on when i'm not sure what else to hear. their *dubnobass* -> *second toughest* -> *beaucoup fish* run is really strong. some of those *dubnobass* bonus cuts are really good to and of course "born slippy" is a classic
i really like their approach to electronic music across these three releases. there's a certain "band" feel going on here, but it never comes at the expense of this material being great dance music. they sprinkle in just enough guitars to give some variety to the synths and beats but never go overboard with them. the programming is often great and the beats usually go pretty hard. can't pin it down here but it often does feel like people putting the loops together "live" instead of in software/sequencers, even if that may not technically be the case. i also kind of love the vocals. they're often more an evocative texture to help fill out the beats but the energy they add is hitting me just right without feeling like it's distracting from the music. idk if british boys in their early 20s are still trying to do all the 8+ minute talk-sing stuff, but i feel like some of them should consider doing this while a couple of his pals are cranking out sick beats. that would be a fun and welcome change of pace
i also think their album sequencing is impressive. there's usually a good flow between straightforward bangers, more exploratory multi-phase suites, and ambient/downtempo comedown type tunes. this, again, kind of bolsters the "band" feel bc the albums feel very intentionally put together to encourage a full listen
probably going to dig deeper into some of their later material soon, maybe i'll find a cd of *second toughest* soon (i have *dubno* and *beaucoup* already.) def worth digging into if, like me, you generally enjoy the electronic music of this era but maybe didn't dive into this act too much bc you got em mixed up with orbital or whoever
Hell yeah Underworld. Someday you’ll fall into the many-hour DRIFT album just like me! Really good group, they don’t really have a bad album after dubnobass. I have some thoughts about “electronica” but not enough coherent ones to write them down. Maybe someday
yes, i'm sure i will get around to that DRIFT thing eventually! i'm a sucker for "electronic acts make a multi-hour album" especially if it's some weird late period release lol
would love to ponder the "electronica" thing at a later time
also the original brent 6.8 gq review for *beaucoup fish* is so funny
> As far back as 1997, the hyperactive music press had been awaiting Underworld's followup to the brilliant Second Toughest in the Infants, or more specifically the Trainspotting epic, "Born Slippy," released like a boogie board on the crest of the electronica wave. Finally, after settling on the ridiculous title Beaucoup Fish, Underworld have finally answered. And it shouldn't surprise anyone in today's age of shattered expectations that Beaucoup Fish is not as great as we'd hoped. But, of course, what we had hoped for was the OK Computer of electronic music. Lofty. The final product lies more like The Bends of house music.
like ok bro, idk what you were expecting here or what "ok computer of electronic music" even fucking means besides "is a really good album that gets hailed as a masterpiece" or whatever but go off
nooooo the underworld stuff isn't mid aaaaaaa nooo don't say that
something liek "fred again is the *pablo honey* of boneless house" is probably ok though
true!
also the uses of "electronica" in this phrasing... i often catch myself wondering "what did this even mean?" it's maybe too hard for me to wrap my head around it in hindsight but it often seems like it's a genre that got spoken of very speculatively as a style with a lot of potential and/or a bubble that was going to burst or fail to live up to the hype... but also what *is* "electronica" lmao, i think they just started using that word for electronic music for a while there
> but also what is "electronica" lmao, i think they just started using that word for electronic music for a while there
it was pretty much just what is known as electronic music, but a less cumbersome way of referring to such and it sounds vaguely genre-like. Possibly done by people more aware that Techno is a specific genre and not a catch-all either. It was also before EDM took off as a name.
> also the uses of "electronica" in this phrasing... i often catch myself wondering "what did this even mean?" it's maybe too hard for me to wrap my head around it in hindsight but it often seems like it's a genre that got spoken of very speculatively as a style with a lot of potential and/or a bubble that was going to burst or fail to live up to the hype
just read techno rebels & underground is massive. it was a label for a moment and place (a tower records or virgin megastore) where it seemed "hey can electronic music actually be a pop force?" and US audiences said "well we like fatboy slim at wododstock 1999 and that's it" and thus had to wait until skrillex emerged to truly create a EDM marketplace of ideas
i dooo need to read those eventually, maybe one day
but yeah i thought about it a bit more after my comment and i do think that virgin megastore/pop crossover thing is a key component of at least whatever i sometimes hear that sets off my "is this electronica?" radar. like *ray of light* or *walking wounded* kind of ring those bells bc it's clearly pop songwriting paired with the kind of production flourishes and beat construction of electronic music while also being distinctly *not* synthpop. (this is a lane that feels a little of open nowadays if i'm being honest) but then daft punk/aphex twin/boards of canada/etc. don't quite ping that if only bc less vocals? and then there's chem bros and fatboy slim who probably kind of straddle that divide
Yeah electronica seems like a real Late 90s/Early 00s Thing for the brief window when we let electronic artist be a Big Thing in Indie Discourse. My uncle who really likes Apex Twin and doesn't listen to new music uses the term a lot, which I think sort of speaks for itself
Every time people were mentioning Future Islands on here I was like "I can't believe that Andy Samberg comedy band is that popular on here". Well, TIL Future Islands ≠ The Lonely Island
I do apologize.
is it a hot take to consider led zeppelin's presence their best album? I was listening to it this morning and, from front to back, everything just \*\*rips\*\*. the fact that it is only seven tracks just hits the sweet spot for me. prime zep.
I don't want this comment to be buried in the blur 13 25th anniversary post so I'm going to say it here: 1992 is amongst the saddest of all sad songs in the blur catalog. the way Damon just sounds so \*done\* with everything while Graham, Alex and Dave just chug along with whatever is left in them is just sublime.
brought a ticket to see American Football perform their album in full yesterday and I am utterly looking forward to holler the first lines to never meant as loud as I can.
Re: Presence. I guess I get it as its production sounds a bit more modern and it covers a fair amount of their past work, but I can’t help but think that so much of it just sounds like the band retreading old ground.
>is it a hot take to consider led zeppelin's presence their best album?
It's hot, but I can see the vision. Like a dude who prefers the blues rock of the first two records but respects the increased ambition and accomplishment of the middle period? But without all the genre hopping? Even so I feel like one would just listen to IV at that point and then just suffer through "Evermore" and "California", which are good songs. Back when I was doing Wednezeppelin, Presence is the album that left the weakest impression...well, maybe I should give it another run and get back to you.
In the brief window of time when I bought CD’s, every time I’d browse the collection at Barnes and Noble and check out the Zeppelin section, it would only be *Presence* and *CODA*. So I think it is a hot take lol. You sure make it sound good though. I’ve only heard “Achilles Last Stand” (banger obviously).
Continuing my pop punk listening streak with some My Chemical Romance, Three Cheers and Black Parade are so great and I dont think I really appreciated them enough in middle school. I liked them back then but i dont think any of us realized how well they would age.
Also listening to Jimmy Eat World's Clarity on repeat recently. I think i need to order a cd copy of this so I can listen in my car.
A couple weeks ago I revisited the first two Sparta albums (Porcelain and Wiretap Scars). I was kinda blown away by how well they hold up. Highly recommend if you're gonna continue in that vein.
Yeah I was probably going to listen to some more post hardcore or emo adjacent stuff like Unwound, Rites of Spring, Drive Like Jehu, Fugazi, etc otherwise so I'll queue it up. I feel like I've heard Sparta before but its probably been such a long time that I can't remember now.
Not sure how I missed it on release but Fizz’s 2023 debut album “The Secret To Life” rips ass and is immediately going into heavy rotation for me. First song into title track is awesome, closer rules, bangers all around.
I really liked it at release and High In Brighton was one of my favorite songs of 2023 but I haven't gone back to it much since then. That said, it's a good debut and I did enjoy the eccentricities and how hyper it was a lot. I also think they switch and cross genres quite effectively.
I'm starting a music zine! It's called Rantipole and you can pre-order it [here](https://ko-fi.com/s/07c9526ceb)! I've seen a few of my articles pop up on this Reddit (J-pop and Denton no wave write-ups for Bandcamp) so I figured this might be a good place to plug.
It's print, 132+ pages, A4, full color, and I've got a contributor crew of about 20 folks who've done stuff for P4K, Bandcamp, the Alt, Post-Trash, etc. First issue has extensive interviews with glass beach, Mo Troper, Cheem, and Pacing, multi-page features on Susan Alcorn, Nagakumo, Buice, and Snotnoze Saleem, a scene report on Iowa City/OKC queer punk, a 16-page cover story on Curling, and 40 scored longform album reviews. Any support is appreciated! Thanks to Matty for the go-ahead on plugging this!
Wow that’s a huge run. Pretty exciting it would be cool if more stuff like this got off the ground, I’ll need to see if I can put together 15 bucks for this
an honor and pleasure and again...the coverage of what's here is "certifiable heater city".
it's also funny enough because this is the one board on the internet with at least 5 non-toronto folks invested in westelaken and we damn well will be showing up to support them!
Either way, I appreciate the consideration! And yeah, I'm "going for it" because longevity is gonna be a question in any case, so I'd start big and see if it catches (if not, I've got a big ol' thing I'm proud of). I know No Bells is launching a zine soon and Miranda Reinert is starting Portable Model, so there are some folks going harder into the zine space. The state of bigger music media in the digital space has been pretty depressing so I think people are starting to really look into alternatives.
Hort Lort Concort Report:
* Every now and again, I buy tickets to a show for an act I only *sort of* know and/or like, in the hopes that live performance will help the work "click" for me. Often when I do this Lia Kohl is also there, for some reason
* **Honestly Same** is an alternative chamber quintet of polysynth/accordion/cello + electronics/woodwinds/percussion + electronics. The sort of museum-gallery room music that Chicago music nerds go for. Fortunately, I am a nerd, and while at times I was a little lost there were enough odd grooves and satisfying chords to keep me hanging in there.
* I don't know what **Ka Baird's** deal is, exactly. I didn't do a lot of research ahead of time. I can only describe what I heard, which was a sort of performance piece for microphone and electronics. By striking and occasionally vocalizing into the mic—which was running through a battery of resonant filters, delay chains, and the like—Baird conjured all right if strange, crunchy, not quite harmonic harmonious noises. It was musical only in the loosest sense, honestly; there was a manipulation of sound deployed within a meaningful, thoughtful progression of time, and also occasional snatches of vocal melody in flute. In a sense it was more about watching Baird's scarecrow physicality play out in time and space. It was very interesting but I did not enjoy it, though as a matter of course I lack the critical framework to talk about it in an intelligent or useful way.
* I don't know that I can name any particular **Horse Lords** song, though pretty much everything they played sounded familiar. And it sounded *good.* I admit it took me a few tracks to loosen up but once I did I was really enjoying it. The band is tight, spidery. The bass tone is fat as fuck. The rhythms are as groovy in practice as they are difficult in theory. A shockingly fun live band relative to how brainy they are, what with the microtones and all.
* Miracles of miracles, but in the sold out crowd somehow I found space to do my elbows dance. This is good—Horse Lords make the most elbows music imaginable. Also, dang, Horse Lords sold out the venue? Love to live in a city of fuckos.
* The guitar player in Horse Lords is a very awkwardly endearing stage presence. It helps that he dresses exactly like me. He had jokes. Good job.
* No encore, but no complaints. Empty Bottle shows run late enough as it is.
> Ka Baird's
ka baird is someone who randomly one day showed up on bandcamp in the astral editions page doing "vocal games" and then has landed on RVNG intl doing "more vocal games". at the very edge of the free noise X free jazz X "yeah sure get on stage and do it"-core, Ka Baird is deadass some of the hardest shit to get into or want to play with and i would never recommend it to anyone unless they had a desire to speak in tongue.
Now, I like a lotta of these experiments and things (lia kohl & macie stewart have their own variant of this; Amirtha Kidambi & Lea Bertucci also) but like we're talking 60s/70s "live at the kitchen" experiments there. I can grasp onto it because i want to go to the barren isolated points where fuck all happens and each voice sounds like one of those orange milk eyeballs doofuses. cackling that you saw her last night bc there was no way in hell it was gonna land for ya. the true heroes of vocal games are Meredith Monk's ECM recordings (you can grapple them and hear the minimalism) & steve reich's - tehilim (also same reasons). naturally, both are analog
> Horse Lords...I admit it took me a few tracks to loosen up but once I did I was really enjoying it.
finally, now you can move on to 75 dollar bill
(Dan Bejar always looks to me like that philosophy professor you admire a lot but don't necessarily want to be left alone in a room with after sherry hour in the faculty lounge.)
Hey not sure anyone noticed the [hyperdub bandcamp page](https://hyperdub.bandcamp.com/merch), but there's like some bizarre "fire sale" prices on their stuff, barring UK shipping. Angel-Ho, Burial's antidawn, laurel halo's dust...they're being priced down and in the case of the first two, are prolly just worth adding to yr cart if you are considering buying something from the label
also "Beggars Music will take over the administration of the London-based Hyperdub label's existing publishing catalogue"
hmm
thanks for the heads up, i had to grab a few of these
very weird that this is getting priced down and the changeover to beggar's music... that + the burial changeover really makes me wonder what's going on with hyperdub
Was listening to U2 yesterday, some thoughts
First I wanna talk about “The Saints Are Coming” with Green Day. Specifically the live version. What a masterpiece that totally sucks. Absolute bullshit “House of the Rising Sun” opening. Bono sings “New birth… rebirth… Trombone Shorty!” He yells “Please I am an Americaaaaiin!” The chorus is ESPNcore. I love the song so much. I wish mainstream rock artists in 2024 believed that rock music could change the world like U2 & Green Day did in 2006. Their conviction despite the song being a cornball disaster sells the song. A perfect song
Secondly I wanna talk “Walk On.” I don’t know what I wanna talk about re: “Walk On” but I’ve been listening to it a lot lately. The part where Bono lists off things you need to leave behind still gives me goosebumps. Song was built to change lives, which is what makes it so great. No one does it like them. I tried to listen to All That You Can’t Leave Behind in full yesterday, “Beautiful Day” is also a great, great song but I still didn’t make it through the whole thing. Drags so bad in the second half. “Walk On” is still one of the best songs of the century.
Finally, I want to talk about cliché. I think you can definitely accuse Bono of being a cliché lyricist sometimes but I think it usually works because you can always tell he believes in what he’s signing so fucking much. Which I think leads to my broader train of thought, that cliché isn’t bad in and of itself, it’s bad when it’s just out there to fill space and the artist doesn’t actually give a shit. Because Bono gives a shit about literally everything all the time it works for him
Sorry it’s not Tuesday I just couldn’t wait 5 days for this my bad
Concerning Cliché and U2: I've always felt that this was a by product of their mid 80's to early 90's work where they were trying to shine a light on various worldwide issues. I've always felt that coupled with moving away from their more post-punk early work and trying to streamline their sound to make is more palatable is very much something they did on purpose and they did very well. I also feel that's why they sort of retreated from that on *Zooropa* and *Pop* and went back to it after their 90's backlash on *All That You Can't Leave Behind* and have remained in that pocket since.
Vaguely related but the best list in music of all time is the list of big sounding things in “The Whole of the Moon” leading up to every precious dream and vision underneath the stars
Listened to the new Ariana Grande album last night. Solid vocal performances as usual, but there's a conspicuous lack of singles which is very strange for an artist of her level. She couldn't get anyone to write something interesting for her?
you’re just expecting too much of the old Ari. that was a different era of pop music and the big bold catchy songs aren’t really what’s in these days. ppl are into more artsy experimental stuff even from the pop stars. Eternal sunshine kinda reminded me of Taylor swifts evermore, that album was also not as poppy
Maybe you're right. With Swift, I don't think you were supposed to expect singles from Folklore or Evermore since those were more like experiments with indie-styled folk-pop. It was actually Midnights that surprised me as it seemed like a return to pop production without any real pop singles on it.
I think The Boy Is Mine is single material
Something about this album is too saccharine and sentimental and poppy for me though. I genuinely liked Sweetener and Thank U Next and I’m beginning to think that’s all I’ll ever really like from her.
It's funny you mention The Boy is Mine given it is a "reimagining" of the classic Brandy / Monica single, only much worse since it doesn't make much sense conceptually with only Ariana on the track.
Personally, I like Ariana's super-sweet trap-pop style, I would just like to hear better writing and better hooks behind it.
Question: the first twenty seconds of the record "OK? OK! OK OK!" by mannequin pussy sounds like another different tune. can anyone listen to it? Im not crazy.
Question: Is so-called "shoegaze" defined by an influence from the genres which preceded it, such as neo-psychedelia, dream pop, space rock, jangle pop, and post-punk, or is it defined by a set of characteristics essential to the genre, such as a wall of guitar sound, quite often layered, vocals, as they say, "melted" into the guitar sound, jazz chords, the usage of feedback as an instrument in its own right, the usage of an extensive set of guitar pedals, etc.? Everyone knows that My Bloody Valentine, who was the definitive feature of the so-called "scene that celebrates itself", is "shoegaze". I think that most people would agree that. While The Garbage and the Flowers were kind of a part of the same scene, they are not, as it were, "shoegaze". What about Galaxie 500, however? There are definite elements of neo-psychedelia, dream pop, space rock, jangle pop, and post-punk to Galaxie 500 and, yet, they don't seem to fit within the genre of so-called "shoegaze". This, perhaps, could be due to their usage of lead guitar, which the genre might be somewhat exclusive of, but, given a cursory definition of shoegaze as "dream pop, but with a focus on the electric guitar sound", I'm not entirely sure as to why Galaxie 500 shouldn't be counted as "shoegaze".
I'm unsure if this remark is useful much, but have you considered whether a music genre term like 'Shoegaze' is a family-resemblance term? Likewise, I can understand and agree that under a standard definition (predecessor sounds + hallmark characteristics) both My Bloody Valentine, and Galaxie 500 should come out as Shoegaze bands and/or bands that have a "shoegaze sound" as major constituent elements of their records---but I also think it might be fine and useful if someone had a definition that productively made My Bloody Valentine a shoe gaze band but excluded Galaxie 500 (or vice versa). With focus on Galaxie 500 : the band might be excluded from inclusion with the label 'shoegaze' if our definition has certain further qualifications, like self intention (i.e. "I am making a SHOEGAZE record"), social milleu, further specifications as to e.g. technical equipment and use, and so on. Did that make sense or did I blather and miss/mistakenly sidestep your main point?
No, I think it makes perfect sense, but what about the general sense of the term, "shoegaze", i.e. what is not our personal opinion about what is or is not shoegaze, but, rather, what you could intuitively say most people, at least, within enough of a know to have some idea as to what shoegaze is, would say is quote unquote shoegaze? From the so-called "death of the author", I'd suggest that it's possible for a band to be shoegaze without declaring themselves so. Given the diversity of locale of contemporary shoegaze bands, I don't think it necessary to qualify shoegaze as a specific scene of a specific time. Being a guitar player, myself, I'd be vary of any technical qualifications of a given board, as, if it makes the shoegaze sound and you like it, then, I don't see why you shouldn't just go for it. So, with these things set aside, if Galaxie 500 is not "shoegaze", then, what is it that distinguishes them from it? Obviously, you can't point to their musical roots. That's where I think that the trouble/interest starts. Edit: Mazzy Star is, too, perhaps "not shoegaze". Why? It's not about whether or not anything should be considered as shoegaze, as if it were an objective quality of judgement, bur, rather, as to why other bands, with shoegaze characteristics, aren't considered within the genre?
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Late entry just to say [Stuck In The Middle With You](https://open.spotify.com/track/1b7LMtXCXGc2EwOIplI35z?si=mofS2KOPRvGoMnWbpnoKmA) Is catchy AF and I un -ironically love it!
I’m on a roll today but: how derivative does something have to be before it is considered borderline plagiarism? Greta van fleet are rightfully ripped into for biting led zeppelin, but I saw mouseatouille opening for BCNR and I was quite unimpressed at how unoriginal they were - maybe it didn’t quite translate to a live setting, but that’s just what a thought. You could ask the same questions about a lot of shoegaze bands too - do lilys and fleeting joys, for example, get enough stick for taking heavy inspiration from loveless? Lot of Slowdive clones out there nowadays too…
I know everyone’s probably tired of genre discussions, but I would like to know the people of r/indieheads opinions on whether the most recent Alvvays album is shoegaze, or simply inspired by shoegaze out of interest (it slaps either way)
_flippant take_ it's like if shoegaze were good _serious take_ there's like 2-3 shoegaze tracks but it's basically just indie pop with some twee and jangle influences. I do not believe in dream pop as a genre and thus will not be granting it that descriptor.
Hahaha fair enough, feel free to elaborate on this dream pop take if you wish
it has touches of it here and there but it's quite different from anything I'd be comfortable calling a 'shoegaze album'
Agreed - just interested to see where people stand. Sounds incredible live too
creating a new type of even more deranged indie purist who **refuses** to listen to musicians/music that does not have a songwriting credit via ASCAP *75-80% of my cassettes suddenly disappear in my room* oh gawd what da fuck was I thinking?!?!?!?
Taking me back to my days of singing in city choir growing up and feeling a uniquely prudish and specific shame about using photocopies of choral sheet music bc otherwise how will the composers and arrangers get their due :(
you are in such trouble. you are a hoodlum and thief! your pockets better be filled with gold coins (the longmont potion castle call taco comavilla where he pretends to be an ASCAP rep has been taken down :/ )
Keeping track of ASCAP enough to know? *Lame*.
POV: you just opened an ECM tape and its says the writing credits came from BMI it's so bad for you the dream is over
Wait I thought that the purist was avoiding the ASCAP-registered writers, my bad
I'm waiting for my man Twenty-six dollars in my hand Waiting to buy the new Swift variant.
a pet shop boys update, *bilingual* really does sound nice while it’s sunny and you got your apartment windows open while waiting out the last hour of work waiting for an email that doesn’t seem like it’s gonna arrive however, a new knock on this album unfortunately… i got really used to the “single” edit of “red letter day” that was on the *SMASH* compilation last year. it’s not that different but has a really great synth solo for the outro. unfortunately makes the album take feel a little underwhelming now
Been getting real into songs: ohia recently - wasn’t a massive fan when I first listened, but now Jason Molina has me singing farewell transmission incredibly out of key at full volume
got a kick out of how pavement’s totally normal hospo rider went viral earlier this week
It was also quite funny. Like the "yellow americam spirits--the color of the heart of the white man" is sorta their classic bullshit you'd find scribbled on an LP cover
yea things can be way way wilder or more particular than that one
touring kinda sucks and if you can swing free chips and salsa at the gig you absolutely should
as someone that works in that industry i was like “this is the most boilerplate rider i have ever seen”
I read it and was like, this just sounds like someone who has toured for a bit and they know how to ask for what they need. Bog standard otherwise.
So there is a band called Heartworms that i’ve seen in this subreddit. I’ve been looking to find the lyrics to the song “May I Comply” for a while because I wanted to learn how to sing the song (I have lots of singing experience and love the song). Does anyone know all the actual lyrics to the song? I can’t find them anywhere.
Listening to new Itasca album for the 23th times.
yes. can't stop listening to it. it won't let me go
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I think it's DJO
Thinking today about how “Mystery” by Wipers is one of the best pop punk songs ever made. It’s kinda nuts that it’s like the only song in Wipers entire discography that could be considered a pop song, but they nailed it. The hook is amazing, and the instruments sound so crisp too.
idk a lot of wipers stuff feels kinda steeped in pop - particularly that album. tragedy and wait a minute both feel similar
Man the shoegaze community is so needlessly pretentious and pedantic l, always arguing over what is and isn’t shoegaze, and etc. Like does it really matter? Just enjoy the music
I feel seen. (edit: wait, you responded to me in another thread there, so extra lol) Conversely though, why does something *have* to be labelled shoegaze? I swear a lot of people get all pissy at being told about another genre exists, as if knowing a second genre means it will force valuable information of out of their head.
Agreed! Genre is so subjective that it doesn’t really matter what you label a band with - who is to say that their opinion on genre is more authoritative than someone else’s, for example? (Also ha, my original comment was not in reference to yours as yours was not about genre - clearly we have a difference in opinion in the other matter, but I see why it could have been taken as a dig, so I apologise. My original comment was regarding a rather gatekeepy exchange I saw scrolling through music Instagram)
Okay but can you define indie for us please
Whether they’ve collaborated with Phoebe Bridgers or not
Matt Berninger breathing a huge sigh of relief right now
Because he’s officially not indie any longer?
I just realized Jettick22's definition is ambiguous as to whether collabing with Phoebe makes one indie or not-indie, much to consider here
As the overlord of indie, I declare that collaborating with Phoebe Bridgers officially makes an artist indie. If said artist hasn’t, they are not. Hope this helps 🙏🙏
Matt Berninger breathes a second, even bigger and more indie sigh of relief
At this point it sounds like you're Matt Berninger talking about yourself in third person
I've been found out, these are all the lyrics to the next National album
I feel like some fans refuse to accept a band that debuted after '93 lol
Souvlaki just sneaks in…
I'm afraid it ain't just shoegaze fans!
high on my own supply is shoegaze and if you disagree with me then you're not invited to my 8 hour shoegaze drone ambient noise party
You’re not wrong!
I have a tendency to want to binge things too quickly, which I guess doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, but sometimes I try to force myself to slow down and savor things. That's what I've been doing with Holy Wave's discography over the last two weeks. I easily could have listened to everything in one day, but I've been taking my time and am still enjoying every second of it! It looks like I have one album and the EPs left. I also sometimes have a tendency to want to wait before trying something that I think I might really like. I don't know, I guess I just put it off because I don't want it to be over! (I waited literally over a decade after becoming a fan to finally listen to Elliott Smith's *New Moon* because I didn't want to run out of his music!) After a certain point though I have to make myself give it a shot or else I'll probably build it up way too much in my head. Anyway - finally getting to the point here, I swear! - after having them on my list for ages (and having them recommended to me multiple times and compared favorably to some of my favorite bands), I finally decided to try Ulrika Spacek today! I just finished listening to their first album two times in a row. Loved it! Looking forward to more! I will stop rambling now! Have a nice Thursday. :)
There's still Elliott Smith stuff in the vault that I'm hoping gets released someday
For sure, and I hope so too! Every once in a while something will surface, and it's always such a treat when it does. :)
I heard ~~Homeward~~ Outward Bound in the documentary Heaven Adores You and wanted to listen to the rest of it, but it hasn't been released! There's just an old live version with a friend of his singing floating around
Yeah, that's definitely one I would love to hear in full too! Maybe someday... :')
Was playing guitar and whistling the vocal melody last night and discovered that when I whistle above a certain frequency, my cat freaks the fuck out and will come running from across the apartment to headbutt my chin. In particular, she seems to have strong feelings about Billy Joel's "The Stranger." Very, very funny stuff, looking for more songs with high-pitched whistle melodies if you have 'em
Andrew Bird - Spare Oh's
Does your cat see it as an aggressive act and the headbutting is her way of fighting back, or is it more like you're summoning her like a familiar in D&D?
With the caveat that I don't know shit about D&D, I think it's like summoning a familiar—she usually sits in my lap afterwards which is a win for both of us because I refuse to turn the heat on in my apartment
It's either she thinks you're summoning her for companionship, or she thinks there might be a bird in your vicinity lol
Use this power for good.
What are the Yellow Submarine’s of other albums? Some in my opinion… “Digsy’s Dinner” off Oasis’s *Definitely Maybe* “Cars are Cars” on *Hearts and Bones* by Paul Simon (you could maybe make a case for “Punky’s Dilemma” on *Bookends* too). “Be My Girl - Sally” by the Police off *Outlandos D’Amore”* “Cobwebs and Strange” off *A Quick One* by the Who. “Ride my Llama” on Neil Young’s *Rust Never Sleeps* I’m TEMPTED to include “Tourette’s” off *In Utero* just because it feels like such a blatant piss-take but I don’t know. Ditto *Let it Be* and “Gary’s Got a Boner”
Digsy's Dinner rocks and feels like a normal Oasis song imo \#1 by Animal Collective Dress Sexy at My Funeral, The Well, and No Dancing by Smog
"Fireman" off Lil Wayne's *Tha Carter II* "I Ain't Superstitious" off Megadeth's *Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?* "Leopard-Skin Pill-Box Hat" off Bob Dylan's *Blonde On Blonde* (love it tho)
I know it's a bit tough to really say it's in similar vein given how they do their albums especially content wise but I guess Mr. Richard Smoker off Ween's 12 Golden Country Greats due to how it's the only song that really doesn't have the straight forward country sound. Sure there's some banjo(or maybe it's technically a mandolin?), slide guitar and fiddle for a moment, but it's infinitely more rag timey show tune than anything else.
I feel like Ween is a hard band to answer this question for—their albums are nothing but Yellow Submarines (that's not a dig, I like Ween a lot)
"Teenagers" on The Black Parade.
I was gonna say “blood”
I was thinking of listing "Blood," too, but I wasn't sure if it counted since it was originally a bonus track.
It's FJM so it's automatically supposed to be taken seriously, but "True Affection" from *I Love You, Honeybear* is so incongruous that it feels like a spiritual Yellow Submarine equivalent
"Shiny Happy People" would be the obvious one off the top of my head
Good one! Maybe even “Stand” too?
The Sidewinder Sleeps Tonite
This song is so goddamn silly and I love it so much.
Yep another good shout. Both great songs too. I wish we'd got a whole album of slightly unnervingly upbeat REM pop songs
Been listening almost exclusively to alt-country lately. So far Slaughter Beach, Dog has to be my favorite in the genre (Honorable mention to Greg Freeman). Anyone got any deep cut recommendations? Looking for deeper cuts here, I’m already a huge fan of Wilco, Jayhawks, MJ Lenderman, Whiskeytown, etc. Edit: thank you all for the amazing recs, I have quite the list of new artists to check out!!
This has been my fav genre for years now. Some of my favs: Good Looks - Bummer Year, Rose City Band - can’t go wrong with any album , Bonny Doon - Let There Be Music, Cordovas - The Rose of Aces, Dusk - Glass Pastures, Ryan Davis and the Roadhouse Band - Dancing on the Edge, Florry - The Holy Bible, Big Nothing - Dog Hours, The Dead Tongues - Dust, Trampled by Turtles - Any album
I really love KC & Clayton, Marlon Williams - *Plastic Bouquet (2021)* Pretty simple and straightforward country songs with memorable songwriting and beautiful duet performances from KC and Marlon Williams. Marlon Williams in general is another artist you might want to explore.
You've got some great recs here... Seconding Lucinda Williams, Uncle Tupelo and any Gram Parsons project. Also, Drive By Truckers - Decoration Day Morgan Wade - Reckless Nikki Lane - Denim & Diamonds Old 97's - Too Far To Care Loretta Lynne - pick a greatest hits comp My Darling Clementine - How Do You Plead?
If you want to check out some new stuff from last year I liked Fust - *Genevieve* Sluice - *Radial Gate* (leans folky) You mention Wilco so I hope you're already into Uncle Tupelo and Son Volt. *No Depression* is the album that kick-started alt country. Also want to recommend a few older foundational albums that were pushing the bounds of country before the alt-country genre took shape: The Byrds - *Sweetheart of the Rodeo* (1968) The Dillards - *Wheatstraw Suite* (1968) The Flying Burrito Brothers - *The Guilded Palace of Sin* (1969) John Hartford - *Aero-Plain* (1971) Jerry Jeff Walker - *Viva Terlingua* (1973) Gene Clark - *No Other* (1974)
The Everybodyfields, Fust, Frog
Westelaken, Frog, Lily Seabird (Freeman collabs with her), Little Kid (marginal but probably counts).
> Lily Seabird (Freeman collabs with her) Ooh and it's on Bud Tapes too. I gotta give this a listen
^westelaken ^(of course)
Tarkio of course (Colin Meloy’s band before Decemberists)
Shit, Greg Freeman is my usual go to for this request. Uhh so deep cuts: Brody Price - Win A Trip to Palm Springs! Colin Miller - Haw Creek Richard Buckner - Dents and Shells
I wouldn't say any of these are particularly deep cuts, but Lucinda Williams, Songs: Ohia, Phosphorescent and Silver Jews are all favorites of mine. And seconding MCK_OH's rec for Cowboy Junkies, they're excellent e: for some recent slightly-off-the-beaten-path stuff, I've really enjoyed HC McEntire's last two albums, Rachel Baiman's *Common Nation of Sorrow*, Ryan Sambol's *Gestalt*, Cory Hanson's *Pale Horse Rider*, and Jonathan Wilson's *Dixie Blur*
Cowboy Junkies
been listening to underworld quite a bit recently. it's been a good fit for my current headspace and something easy to throw on when i'm not sure what else to hear. their *dubnobass* -> *second toughest* -> *beaucoup fish* run is really strong. some of those *dubnobass* bonus cuts are really good to and of course "born slippy" is a classic i really like their approach to electronic music across these three releases. there's a certain "band" feel going on here, but it never comes at the expense of this material being great dance music. they sprinkle in just enough guitars to give some variety to the synths and beats but never go overboard with them. the programming is often great and the beats usually go pretty hard. can't pin it down here but it often does feel like people putting the loops together "live" instead of in software/sequencers, even if that may not technically be the case. i also kind of love the vocals. they're often more an evocative texture to help fill out the beats but the energy they add is hitting me just right without feeling like it's distracting from the music. idk if british boys in their early 20s are still trying to do all the 8+ minute talk-sing stuff, but i feel like some of them should consider doing this while a couple of his pals are cranking out sick beats. that would be a fun and welcome change of pace i also think their album sequencing is impressive. there's usually a good flow between straightforward bangers, more exploratory multi-phase suites, and ambient/downtempo comedown type tunes. this, again, kind of bolsters the "band" feel bc the albums feel very intentionally put together to encourage a full listen probably going to dig deeper into some of their later material soon, maybe i'll find a cd of *second toughest* soon (i have *dubno* and *beaucoup* already.) def worth digging into if, like me, you generally enjoy the electronic music of this era but maybe didn't dive into this act too much bc you got em mixed up with orbital or whoever
Hell yeah Underworld. Someday you’ll fall into the many-hour DRIFT album just like me! Really good group, they don’t really have a bad album after dubnobass. I have some thoughts about “electronica” but not enough coherent ones to write them down. Maybe someday
yes, i'm sure i will get around to that DRIFT thing eventually! i'm a sucker for "electronic acts make a multi-hour album" especially if it's some weird late period release lol would love to ponder the "electronica" thing at a later time
also the original brent 6.8 gq review for *beaucoup fish* is so funny > As far back as 1997, the hyperactive music press had been awaiting Underworld's followup to the brilliant Second Toughest in the Infants, or more specifically the Trainspotting epic, "Born Slippy," released like a boogie board on the crest of the electronica wave. Finally, after settling on the ridiculous title Beaucoup Fish, Underworld have finally answered. And it shouldn't surprise anyone in today's age of shattered expectations that Beaucoup Fish is not as great as we'd hoped. But, of course, what we had hoped for was the OK Computer of electronic music. Lofty. The final product lies more like The Bends of house music. like ok bro, idk what you were expecting here or what "ok computer of electronic music" even fucking means besides "is a really good album that gets hailed as a masterpiece" or whatever but go off
isn’t underworld’s electronic stuff a very distinctive “techno not house” deal anyway?
perhaps that's why it's *the bends* of house music
> The Bends of house music. Oh I'll have to steal this and start using it to describe mid music
nooooo the underworld stuff isn't mid aaaaaaa nooo don't say that something liek "fred again is the *pablo honey* of boneless house" is probably ok though
Oh I just want to call things "The Bends of x" because The Bends is mid-tier britpop, I would never insult Underworld like that. Underworld rules
Britpop is the "The Bends" of rock music. Am I doing this right
Perfect, and true!
The Last Dinner Party is The Bends of the Mika discog
ahh ok i get it i guess if you were to ask me i'd say somthing along the lines like *ok computer* is *the bends* of radiohead
Need to go back to 1997-2000 when I'm pretty sure every music review had to mention which Radiohead record it vaguely sounded like or felt like
true! also the uses of "electronica" in this phrasing... i often catch myself wondering "what did this even mean?" it's maybe too hard for me to wrap my head around it in hindsight but it often seems like it's a genre that got spoken of very speculatively as a style with a lot of potential and/or a bubble that was going to burst or fail to live up to the hype... but also what *is* "electronica" lmao, i think they just started using that word for electronic music for a while there
> but also what is "electronica" lmao, i think they just started using that word for electronic music for a while there it was pretty much just what is known as electronic music, but a less cumbersome way of referring to such and it sounds vaguely genre-like. Possibly done by people more aware that Techno is a specific genre and not a catch-all either. It was also before EDM took off as a name.
> also the uses of "electronica" in this phrasing... i often catch myself wondering "what did this even mean?" it's maybe too hard for me to wrap my head around it in hindsight but it often seems like it's a genre that got spoken of very speculatively as a style with a lot of potential and/or a bubble that was going to burst or fail to live up to the hype just read techno rebels & underground is massive. it was a label for a moment and place (a tower records or virgin megastore) where it seemed "hey can electronic music actually be a pop force?" and US audiences said "well we like fatboy slim at wododstock 1999 and that's it" and thus had to wait until skrillex emerged to truly create a EDM marketplace of ideas
i dooo need to read those eventually, maybe one day but yeah i thought about it a bit more after my comment and i do think that virgin megastore/pop crossover thing is a key component of at least whatever i sometimes hear that sets off my "is this electronica?" radar. like *ray of light* or *walking wounded* kind of ring those bells bc it's clearly pop songwriting paired with the kind of production flourishes and beat construction of electronic music while also being distinctly *not* synthpop. (this is a lane that feels a little of open nowadays if i'm being honest) but then daft punk/aphex twin/boards of canada/etc. don't quite ping that if only bc less vocals? and then there's chem bros and fatboy slim who probably kind of straddle that divide
Yeah electronica seems like a real Late 90s/Early 00s Thing for the brief window when we let electronic artist be a Big Thing in Indie Discourse. My uncle who really likes Apex Twin and doesn't listen to new music uses the term a lot, which I think sort of speaks for itself
I’m going to need an exact time and date for when Neil Young’s discography goes back on Spotify
now my neil young archives subscription is irrelevant
But the video content, man
What album is first in the queue??
On The Beach
Without a doubt his masterpiece For real this time
Neil Young - Greatest Hits (2004)
Without a doubt his masterpiece
'Greatest' is literally in the title.
Every time people were mentioning Future Islands on here I was like "I can't believe that Andy Samberg comedy band is that popular on here". Well, TIL Future Islands ≠ The Lonely Island I do apologize.
[They have interviewed eachother](https://www.spin.com/2017/06/future-islands-andy-samberg-harps-interview/)
The harp room! So powerful.
Lonely Island > Future Islands
Being married to the greatest musician of all time is huge indie cred though
Andy Samberg is married to Will Toledo?
Would this make Andy Sandberg a furry or what
I believe he voiced a chimp in space chimps so he already has a fursona
oh wow, I had no idea. My ignorance knows no bounds.
is it a hot take to consider led zeppelin's presence their best album? I was listening to it this morning and, from front to back, everything just \*\*rips\*\*. the fact that it is only seven tracks just hits the sweet spot for me. prime zep. I don't want this comment to be buried in the blur 13 25th anniversary post so I'm going to say it here: 1992 is amongst the saddest of all sad songs in the blur catalog. the way Damon just sounds so \*done\* with everything while Graham, Alex and Dave just chug along with whatever is left in them is just sublime. brought a ticket to see American Football perform their album in full yesterday and I am utterly looking forward to holler the first lines to never meant as loud as I can.
Re: Presence. I guess I get it as its production sounds a bit more modern and it covers a fair amount of their past work, but I can’t help but think that so much of it just sounds like the band retreading old ground.
>is it a hot take to consider led zeppelin's presence their best album? It's hot, but I can see the vision. Like a dude who prefers the blues rock of the first two records but respects the increased ambition and accomplishment of the middle period? But without all the genre hopping? Even so I feel like one would just listen to IV at that point and then just suffer through "Evermore" and "California", which are good songs. Back when I was doing Wednezeppelin, Presence is the album that left the weakest impression...well, maybe I should give it another run and get back to you.
In the brief window of time when I bought CD’s, every time I’d browse the collection at Barnes and Noble and check out the Zeppelin section, it would only be *Presence* and *CODA*. So I think it is a hot take lol. You sure make it sound good though. I’ve only heard “Achilles Last Stand” (banger obviously).
I listened to the new Future Islands today and mostly liked it but some of the ways he pronounces / enunciates words cracked me up
My dad really didn't think he was singing in English when he saw them on CBS Saturday recently
I did a quick check before I posted the comment to see if he was an ESL speaker
Continuing my pop punk listening streak with some My Chemical Romance, Three Cheers and Black Parade are so great and I dont think I really appreciated them enough in middle school. I liked them back then but i dont think any of us realized how well they would age. Also listening to Jimmy Eat World's Clarity on repeat recently. I think i need to order a cd copy of this so I can listen in my car.
A couple weeks ago I revisited the first two Sparta albums (Porcelain and Wiretap Scars). I was kinda blown away by how well they hold up. Highly recommend if you're gonna continue in that vein.
Yeah I was probably going to listen to some more post hardcore or emo adjacent stuff like Unwound, Rites of Spring, Drive Like Jehu, Fugazi, etc otherwise so I'll queue it up. I feel like I've heard Sparta before but its probably been such a long time that I can't remember now.
They're the spin-off band from At the Drive-In if that rings any bells.
Clarity is the best. Never gets old for me, that one!
Jimmy Eat World was a blind spot for me before the emo rate and I was missing out, glad we included that album. I only knew them as The Middle guys.
Not sure how I missed it on release but Fizz’s 2023 debut album “The Secret To Life” rips ass and is immediately going into heavy rotation for me. First song into title track is awesome, closer rules, bangers all around.
I really liked it at release and High In Brighton was one of my favorite songs of 2023 but I haven't gone back to it much since then. That said, it's a good debut and I did enjoy the eccentricities and how hyper it was a lot. I also think they switch and cross genres quite effectively.
I'm starting a music zine! It's called Rantipole and you can pre-order it [here](https://ko-fi.com/s/07c9526ceb)! I've seen a few of my articles pop up on this Reddit (J-pop and Denton no wave write-ups for Bandcamp) so I figured this might be a good place to plug. It's print, 132+ pages, A4, full color, and I've got a contributor crew of about 20 folks who've done stuff for P4K, Bandcamp, the Alt, Post-Trash, etc. First issue has extensive interviews with glass beach, Mo Troper, Cheem, and Pacing, multi-page features on Susan Alcorn, Nagakumo, Buice, and Snotnoze Saleem, a scene report on Iowa City/OKC queer punk, a 16-page cover story on Curling, and 40 scored longform album reviews. Any support is appreciated! Thanks to Matty for the go-ahead on plugging this!
Sweet! Gonna check it out, especially for the Mo Troper interview.
It was a good chat! https://preview.redd.it/jn7edxacrcoc1.png?width=892&format=png&auto=webp&s=b2196cc77e8e4464c2773ea93267e091939ed4ec
This is not happening anymore!
This sounds great and exactly the kind of thing I want more of these days so I'll support it
Hell yeah! 🫡
Wow that’s a huge run. Pretty exciting it would be cool if more stuff like this got off the ground, I’ll need to see if I can put together 15 bucks for this
i wrote for it
This is true!
an honor and pleasure and again...the coverage of what's here is "certifiable heater city". it's also funny enough because this is the one board on the internet with at least 5 non-toronto folks invested in westelaken and we damn well will be showing up to support them!
we're here for it!
Either way, I appreciate the consideration! And yeah, I'm "going for it" because longevity is gonna be a question in any case, so I'd start big and see if it catches (if not, I've got a big ol' thing I'm proud of). I know No Bells is launching a zine soon and Miranda Reinert is starting Portable Model, so there are some folks going harder into the zine space. The state of bigger music media in the digital space has been pretty depressing so I think people are starting to really look into alternatives.
Hort Lort Concort Report: * Every now and again, I buy tickets to a show for an act I only *sort of* know and/or like, in the hopes that live performance will help the work "click" for me. Often when I do this Lia Kohl is also there, for some reason * **Honestly Same** is an alternative chamber quintet of polysynth/accordion/cello + electronics/woodwinds/percussion + electronics. The sort of museum-gallery room music that Chicago music nerds go for. Fortunately, I am a nerd, and while at times I was a little lost there were enough odd grooves and satisfying chords to keep me hanging in there. * I don't know what **Ka Baird's** deal is, exactly. I didn't do a lot of research ahead of time. I can only describe what I heard, which was a sort of performance piece for microphone and electronics. By striking and occasionally vocalizing into the mic—which was running through a battery of resonant filters, delay chains, and the like—Baird conjured all right if strange, crunchy, not quite harmonic harmonious noises. It was musical only in the loosest sense, honestly; there was a manipulation of sound deployed within a meaningful, thoughtful progression of time, and also occasional snatches of vocal melody in flute. In a sense it was more about watching Baird's scarecrow physicality play out in time and space. It was very interesting but I did not enjoy it, though as a matter of course I lack the critical framework to talk about it in an intelligent or useful way. * I don't know that I can name any particular **Horse Lords** song, though pretty much everything they played sounded familiar. And it sounded *good.* I admit it took me a few tracks to loosen up but once I did I was really enjoying it. The band is tight, spidery. The bass tone is fat as fuck. The rhythms are as groovy in practice as they are difficult in theory. A shockingly fun live band relative to how brainy they are, what with the microtones and all. * Miracles of miracles, but in the sold out crowd somehow I found space to do my elbows dance. This is good—Horse Lords make the most elbows music imaginable. Also, dang, Horse Lords sold out the venue? Love to live in a city of fuckos. * The guitar player in Horse Lords is a very awkwardly endearing stage presence. It helps that he dresses exactly like me. He had jokes. Good job. * No encore, but no complaints. Empty Bottle shows run late enough as it is.
> Ka Baird's ka baird is someone who randomly one day showed up on bandcamp in the astral editions page doing "vocal games" and then has landed on RVNG intl doing "more vocal games". at the very edge of the free noise X free jazz X "yeah sure get on stage and do it"-core, Ka Baird is deadass some of the hardest shit to get into or want to play with and i would never recommend it to anyone unless they had a desire to speak in tongue. Now, I like a lotta of these experiments and things (lia kohl & macie stewart have their own variant of this; Amirtha Kidambi & Lea Bertucci also) but like we're talking 60s/70s "live at the kitchen" experiments there. I can grasp onto it because i want to go to the barren isolated points where fuck all happens and each voice sounds like one of those orange milk eyeballs doofuses. cackling that you saw her last night bc there was no way in hell it was gonna land for ya. the true heroes of vocal games are Meredith Monk's ECM recordings (you can grapple them and hear the minimalism) & steve reich's - tehilim (also same reasons). naturally, both are analog > Horse Lords...I admit it took me a few tracks to loosen up but once I did I was really enjoying it. finally, now you can move on to 75 dollar bill
The further I get into adulthood the better Kaputt sounds. This album ages like the fine wines I imagine Dan Bejar drinks.
Sounds like you're starting to enter the Steely Dan zone. Same thing happened to me in my 30s.
(Dan Bejar always looks to me like that philosophy professor you admire a lot but don't necessarily want to be left alone in a room with after sherry hour in the faculty lounge.)
Yea when I saw him live he seemed ever slightly too inebriated for comfort.
Hey not sure anyone noticed the [hyperdub bandcamp page](https://hyperdub.bandcamp.com/merch), but there's like some bizarre "fire sale" prices on their stuff, barring UK shipping. Angel-Ho, Burial's antidawn, laurel halo's dust...they're being priced down and in the case of the first two, are prolly just worth adding to yr cart if you are considering buying something from the label also "Beggars Music will take over the administration of the London-based Hyperdub label's existing publishing catalogue" hmm
Well dang, hopefully this isn't the end for the label but if it is they had a truly great run that changed electronic music
thanks for the heads up, i had to grab a few of these very weird that this is getting priced down and the changeover to beggar's music... that + the burial changeover really makes me wonder what's going on with hyperdub
Is this why Burial is on XL now
The fact that P4K only puts out two reviews a day now is so sad man
Was listening to U2 yesterday, some thoughts First I wanna talk about “The Saints Are Coming” with Green Day. Specifically the live version. What a masterpiece that totally sucks. Absolute bullshit “House of the Rising Sun” opening. Bono sings “New birth… rebirth… Trombone Shorty!” He yells “Please I am an Americaaaaiin!” The chorus is ESPNcore. I love the song so much. I wish mainstream rock artists in 2024 believed that rock music could change the world like U2 & Green Day did in 2006. Their conviction despite the song being a cornball disaster sells the song. A perfect song Secondly I wanna talk “Walk On.” I don’t know what I wanna talk about re: “Walk On” but I’ve been listening to it a lot lately. The part where Bono lists off things you need to leave behind still gives me goosebumps. Song was built to change lives, which is what makes it so great. No one does it like them. I tried to listen to All That You Can’t Leave Behind in full yesterday, “Beautiful Day” is also a great, great song but I still didn’t make it through the whole thing. Drags so bad in the second half. “Walk On” is still one of the best songs of the century. Finally, I want to talk about cliché. I think you can definitely accuse Bono of being a cliché lyricist sometimes but I think it usually works because you can always tell he believes in what he’s signing so fucking much. Which I think leads to my broader train of thought, that cliché isn’t bad in and of itself, it’s bad when it’s just out there to fill space and the artist doesn’t actually give a shit. Because Bono gives a shit about literally everything all the time it works for him Sorry it’s not Tuesday I just couldn’t wait 5 days for this my bad
Concerning Cliché and U2: I've always felt that this was a by product of their mid 80's to early 90's work where they were trying to shine a light on various worldwide issues. I've always felt that coupled with moving away from their more post-punk early work and trying to streamline their sound to make is more palatable is very much something they did on purpose and they did very well. I also feel that's why they sort of retreated from that on *Zooropa* and *Pop* and went back to it after their 90's backlash on *All That You Can't Leave Behind* and have remained in that pocket since.
Vaguely related but the best list in music of all time is the list of big sounding things in “The Whole of the Moon” leading up to every precious dream and vision underneath the stars
Listened to the new Ariana Grande album last night. Solid vocal performances as usual, but there's a conspicuous lack of singles which is very strange for an artist of her level. She couldn't get anyone to write something interesting for her?
you’re just expecting too much of the old Ari. that was a different era of pop music and the big bold catchy songs aren’t really what’s in these days. ppl are into more artsy experimental stuff even from the pop stars. Eternal sunshine kinda reminded me of Taylor swifts evermore, that album was also not as poppy
I have been listening to music for a hot minute and I don't remember a time when big bold catchy songs weren't in lol
Maybe you're right. With Swift, I don't think you were supposed to expect singles from Folklore or Evermore since those were more like experiments with indie-styled folk-pop. It was actually Midnights that surprised me as it seemed like a return to pop production without any real pop singles on it.
I think The Boy Is Mine is single material Something about this album is too saccharine and sentimental and poppy for me though. I genuinely liked Sweetener and Thank U Next and I’m beginning to think that’s all I’ll ever really like from her.
It's funny you mention The Boy is Mine given it is a "reimagining" of the classic Brandy / Monica single, only much worse since it doesn't make much sense conceptually with only Ariana on the track. Personally, I like Ariana's super-sweet trap-pop style, I would just like to hear better writing and better hooks behind it.