I feel the same way. It's extremely frustrating. You have every right to feel that way because it is horrible. No one wants to stand up and talk about it. Maybe a few people do but most people just worry about fitting in and that's what's so effing annoying.
Yes. They have a totally warped way of thinking. Makes me wonder how they are trying to even date. They don't even know what's good for them or what they even want. Let alone how to navigate people's character and their own character for that matter.
Hey take me out to dinner first before you "F" me lol. Honestly it takes courage and heart to keep searching for compatible people. It has always been a process - never a solved equation that you need to follow steps to completion for.
Take it as a challenge to grow and become the person you'd most want to date or see in the world instead of becoming bitter and closed off. Too many people who already have that job lol.
It gets better as you get older. Went out with a guy last week. He planned an entire day of things he thought I would appreciate or like and knocked it out the park. There’s still some decent people who put in effort out there!
Don't think you are really given how the other replies are you seeking out the same validation for your claims on the dating space being terrible. It's okay to be honest in these cases - only makes it easier to learn lessons and become the people we want to be in life.
Modern dating is an absolute wasteland. Never would I have imagined that cheating & narcissistic tendencies would be so openly embraced, by both men & women. Pornagraphy, social media, & swiping culture seem to be rotting people's ability to form genuine connections.
With that said, I remain steadfast in my suspicion that I will find a fulfilling, loving partner. There are simply too many good people in this world to allow the toxicity to drain my perspective.
Yes. I agree 100% with everything you said. I'm trying to remain optimistic as well. Thank you for seeing it the way I do lol. There's not even many people I can discuss this with because they don't feel the same way. It's nice to hear that. And I agree dating apps and social media have made people just become so lazy and there's like no effort required anymore to get to know someone. Guys send one word messages and then get mad at me for not responding, yet they don't even want to formulate some sort of conversation opener. I don't know what they want. Is it for me to do all the work? Lol
> Is it for me to do all the work?
Sadly, for many of them 'yes' is the answer to your query. Sit back and wait for the other person to take care of things. It just reveals their attitude about dating: "Entertain me"
It is rough out there. What I’ve noticed is that lots of people seem to be very proud of their immaturity and self-centeredness, it’s like a badge of honor. Hopefully that’s just a cultural phase we’re going through, I’ve taken it as a sign that I need to just work on myself for the time being rather than seek out a partner.
Yes, it seems like they are proud of being shitty, for a lack of a better word. Lol. And they expect that their partner is going to treat them the same, that's why no real effort is put in anymore. I don't like that kind of messiness and so that's probably why I'm single!
I agree! Maybe some people are like that because they're just lazy and don't want to fix their own issues, but I also think a lot of people were not given good methods of dealing with their childhood issues and trauma so they don't know exactly how to address their problems, and they just externalize it all.
I think so too! It manifests itself in the relationships and types of people they pursue. It looks like we both can see right through it lol.
Edit: I also think people date people who will be accepted by their friends, like guys want to date a girl that will impress their guy friends. That seems to be a factor, like she has to look and act a certain way, and they will reject a girl who maybe has genuine values/qualities but they know they will be possibly talked about and she won't "fit in" which really, really sucks. But I think since I am reserved, this may be happening to me a bit? I don't participate in whats trendy lol.
Well I can always see right through it when I'm by myself sitting all comfy at the computer haha. When I'm actually dealing with people face to face well that's a little more challenging. I'm always drawn to being in a relationship, which can lead me to get into situations with people who aren't really good for me :/ but I'm working on it!
Having waited till 34 to even feel like I was in an emotional/mental state where I felt capable and ready for dating, everything feels gross. Swiping on people feels like I'm at a store trying to decide on what to get in hopes that they are anything like what I am interested in, with most profiles having a few pictures and half a sentence saying anything about them making it impossible to tell anything real about who they are or what kinds of things they enjoy or are looking for. I try hard to look into every part of their pictures and prompts to get any sort of view of who they are but it feels like most are ether afraid of showing themselves or actively avoiding it for some reason(possibly to have a broader appeal?). Every time I am on an app they shove it into my face that I should really pay money to them to get the most basic of functionality that make no sense to hide behind a paywall if they have any interest in helping anyone not paying. Everything about it just grosses me out and makes me sure that there is no way I am going to find someone there. Beyond the apps I feel like places where people used to just hang out and talk to others are disappearing outside of niche group activities, and while it is very much my own hangups I am having such trouble just getting myself out there to find people to approach or be approached by in hopes of finding others I can relate to. I honestly feel like I just hit a difficulty wall of a game and am looking over my choices to find that I somehow made all the wrong calls that make it close to impossible to proceed.
Sorry for the long rant but it feels good to put some of my frustrations into words, and thanks to anyone who read it.
I get it. Thanks for your comment, yes, even meeting people in real life is a bit of a struggle nowadays, because everything still so social media centric that I find that I can't find the motivation or interest to even participate, and nobody even approaches others anymore, from my experience.
edit: I hate the stupid paywalls on the dating apps and I can't believe anyone actually signs up for them, when it still doesn't seem to work as those guys still send the most low effort messages
My cousin suggested that I use Meet-Up to meet new people with similar interests. Not necessarily for dating as she met most of her friends that way, but you could potentially meet a nice single person.
I have been looking at meetup, most of the groups I see are not really what I am looking for, and I know its worth me going and exploring things that are not exactly as I hope and I am working on it, I just need to get better at being more out there and talking to others, which is hard for me.
I hear you, I have to damn near force myself to do uncomfortable social things. A good trick is to spray on some of your favorite cologne right beforehand for a confidence boost. Take a few big breaths and then just go for it. Once you get going the momentum will take over.
If I were to only get one bottle then I would want it to something fresh, mass appealing, attractive to the ladies, and on the upper end price range to be more distinctive. For that I would recommend Acqua Di Gio Parfum. It also is ideal for use in the summer, and you should be able to test it at Sephora.
Meet-up could be a good move but in my area I found it to be mainly populated by older Gen X and up. Nothing wrong with that, just not the kind of people I'm trying to meet as a zoomer.
I feel it. Rant away.
Also in my early 30s and not really feeling emotionally/mentally ready for the kind of thriving relationship I want. Working on it slowly. Maybe 34 is the magic number. I’ll be ready at 34. Hopefully something shifts a little in the culture by then.
Hey I turned 31 in April!
But also, same. I get this feeling so hard. People keep saying there’s more fish in the sea, without realizing how fucking huge the proverbial sea is.
Shit gets taxing lol
What I hate is the people who rely on "its just a matter of time, everyone has someone out there for them and it will happen when you least expect it"
those are just idioms, and I wish those people realized that there is no greater force that is going to play matchmaker or that everyone has someone they are compatible with to begin with, that they will even get to meet! there are 7 billion people roughly on Earth right now, and yes, you may click with some of them, but the chances you will meet them are slim when you consider the size of the earth and the amount of people in it. so no, i don't agree that this magical person is out there waiting for me or vice versa. I've known plenty of people with good personalities and good hearts who die single or keep ending up in bad relationships. We are not all entitled to a romantic relationship and the people who think we do annoy me lol. Good person or not, we cannot guarantee that we will meet someone to date who ends up being our "soulmate".
Not so long ago, a friend said to me "there's a lid for every pot". It's been running on constant playback when going about my life and whenever i see misery in person, my brain is just like "is there a lid for that pot?" and it becomes a matter of creativity and the amount of coping I'm willing to muster up that day because in the end, the only reason I try to prove or disprove this assumption is because i ask myself "is there a lid for my pot?" and honestly the answer is just that I don't know. I have a hard time just accepting that simple fact that I just don't know and it would be way easier to choose a side that makes me feel better (or worse) about myself because at least then I would believe to "know".
Were the same age, 28INFP M
I’ve had a couple of serious relationships and in between dated around. It’s kinda whack and I’m in a situation now where I’m gonna do my thing, if it happens again sick and if it doesn’t so what lol
Me too. I’m 31 and same only 1 relationships and he wasn’t even from my country. I’m American and I have never had any faith in the dating pool here. I see too much drama, games, dishonesty and cheating. Media makes it worse cause it makes it seem like all the cool pretty people are toxic so you should be toxic too. 🤮 I know it’s not everyone, but the guys who don’t do those things tend not to be as proactive it seems in the dating pool. Which makes sense, but doesn’t help.
I have always wonder why seem to choose really bitchy girls/ drama queens. They might be pretty, but is it really worth it? It confuses me.
There was a guy I knew and he was trying to remember a song he liked by a band I like. The song was called “Hollywood Whore”. He had processed the “whore” in the song as a 👸 princess. 🤦♀️ How? It was very sad to me.
I hear women complaining all the time about guys finding wives abroad but I’m kind of on the same train. I don’t blame them at all.
It doesn’t help that I really don’t want to meet my life partner on a dating app. It’s so unromantic. And then You have to sell yourself on your profile basically. I’m not into that.
I have a hard time with the idea of selling myself via a dating app. I think I’ll do okay when I’m eventually ready though. I am in therapy to learn about boundaries, red flags, overcoming codependency and so on so I’m hoping all of that will be worth it.
Most people do not learn about themselves to the degree that you're doing, and I'm glad you are doing that for yourself. I think its the key to a healthy relationship eventually.
I am somewhat doing this by working on myself, and not feeling pressured to be out there and commit to someone or something that I don't feel is genuine to me. Saving myself from potentially being hurt and wasting time.
Haha thank you:) I’ve definitely had to do this because I’ve been in a relationship that was not ideal to put it mildly and I don’t want that to happen again.
Yeah it’s a good idea to learn more about what you want and ESPECIALLY how to listen to yourself and be a whole secure person so that you’re not afraid to say no to things that aren’t for you!
When my mother was young, men would take women for dinner, bring them gifts and didn't think of sleeping together in the first date. Lucky days.
I feel love today is extremely cheap and disgusting. That's why I write romantic novels instead of wasting my time going out with guys I don't even respect. I don't sleep around. If I have sexual urges, I channel them into my creative work.
And having to pay half and half...! It would have been social suicide during my parents' youth, yet today it's accepted. I can never love a guy who makes me pay for my dinner, even if he was the hottest man on Earth. You want to sleep with me, we may get married one day, yet you can't pay me a meal?! Go to hell!
By the way, I'm older than you.
I’ve actually been considering using writing as a kind of outlet for this too. I don’t think I could do a whole romance novel, but maybe a short story.
I’m having trouble developing a consistent writing habit even though I want to. It’s been a challenge, but I feel inspired. I’ll keep trying .
😊
The habit of writing every day is not for P types. Don't force yourself to get into a habit like that. You'll create a lot when the feeling strikes. I'm glad you're inspired. Good luck!
The idea of always paying to take a woman out or being with a girl who always wants to be paid for is not fair or rational in 2024. Women are expected to hold jobs today out of necessity and are often better educated then the average man. If we're in a relationship then it's different where in that case I'm spending money on someone that I care about and have a real connection with no matter her economic status. But in that case I'd expect to be paid for occasionally as well.
The man always paying was the historical norm when women were expected to be homemakers and didn't often have the rights or means to provide for themselves. It kept women dependent and subservient to men. Now it comes off as increasingly selfish and self-centered considering cultural shifts and modern economic conditions.
To be clear, if both parties consent then I have no problem with a man always paying. People are still like that and that's okay.
I believe I have a lot to offer and expect the man to make an effort to woo me and even more effort to get into my panties. That's how it's always been, even in nature. Paying for a meal is too much effort for you, my date? Then go away.
Women should pay even if they earn a lot less than men in the same job? Put up in the first date(s)? Looks to me everything got better for men and worse for women.
You said it right, and I agree with your last sentence about being influence by music and social media. I want to add that TV shows and movies have messed up the modern dating scene too. People think they do not get influenced by these things. But it is arrogant to think so. The producers of channels such as MTV, etc knows that the masses get influenced and swayed in the direction that they want people to get swayed in
A quote from the founder of MTV
"The strongest appeal you can make is emotionally. If
You can get their emotions going, make them forget their logic, You've got em! At MTV, We don't shoot for the 14 year old. We own them!"
- Robert Pittman
He is not the only one there are plenty of others/producers that had said something along these lines.
So back to modern dating. I was out of the dating scene since 2017 because I decided to focus on my kids, spirituality, learning new things. It was so worth it because I have found my beliefs, values, and goals and will never change these things for anyone. The principle of wholesome dating is to get to know someone to see if our beliefs, values, and goals are aligned; and then find out if our personality is compatible. It is actually very casual and takes the pressure of. Bc I tell the men I want to be friends with the potential of it becoming something more. I want a best friend as my life partner. Well this is how I am doing things. But I have faith that there is someone out there who I will be compatible with.
Thank you!!! I totally agree. It drives me up the wall when people say, “ It doesn’t influence me. Maybe gullible people are influenced, but not me” 😤 How are you so blind? There might be some exceptions of course, but for the average person. No. Your influenced. Doesn’t mean your are going to do everything you see on tv but it totally colors your opinions, what you view are good,cool, acceptable, and so on. If people weren’t influenced by media then major trends wouldn’t even exist. - sorry. It just blows my mind. Your brain soaks up everything. We are constantly learning and not just from school books. People think they are learning things when they are conscious of it. With media/entertainment most of the stuff you’re “learning” is unconscious I think.
The quote was a great example.
Exactly!
"If people weren't influenced then major trends wouldn't even exist."
And you're right most of the stuff people see on the media is internalized subconciously. And each year the messages to young people are getting worst. I observed this from the young generations today and 6 year olds have so much attitude towards their peers when they dont get what they want because cartoon characters these days have so much attitude. Of course kids are going to emulate that because they think those characters are cool. Yes those producers and media owners target the young of course. Because they are the most moldable. So I am careful now with what media I consume and what I let my kids see. But ever since learning this truth I mostly turn to readings and videos that will edify my mind and turn to contents where I can learn some insights about my interests. Here is another quote
"If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing
about it."
-Edward Bernace
founder of public relations
nephew of Sigmund Freud,'
a specialist in propaganda,
the author of the book, "Propaganda"
There are so much more quotes! Lol
The biggest issue I had was going on dates with a guy who had sex with another girl he was also seeing last night… immediately repulsive. Seeing multiple people at the same time is not for me. I cannot deal with the hookup culture and the stupid rules of the dating app game. Too many people just looking for easy fun, lying left and right to get laid, and running away from commitment. As someone who wants to save herself for marriage, I realized this isn’t going to work for me. Everybody else is in situationships and I don’t want that. Whatever happened to deep emotional connection, mutual respect, legit EFFORT, long-term commitment and LOVE ???
Definitely, I totally understand what you're saying. There is nothing meaningful. It's all about instant gratification and sex nowadays. Low effort conversation, etc. these are the same people who end up wondering why they keep getting their heart broken. They are in no position to complain, especially when they go for those types of "toxic" people and they're contributing to it. Talking about shooting yourself in the foot. They don't even know what they're doing. I'm glad you see it the way I do. Almost nobody wants commitment and they want to keep things casual. Which is fine for some people I guess, but it seems to be like nobody wants an actual committed relationship. It's like finding a needle in the haystack nowadays.
I'm 41. And no dates since early 2020 (before lockdown had one date in Jan 2020). App dating culture is hell. And actually meeting someone is a disaster. No long term relationship since my then fiancee and I broke it off in 2015.
Only hope is that things are better in a different city since Southern California hasn't been happy times in this area but I'm moving in 2 weeks.
Sorry about the break up. That’s rough, but better not to marry someone who you will eventually want to escape from.
Good luck with your move. SoCal is rough. Hollywood is too close I think. 🤔
Have you seen those man on the street interviews? Some girls will just admit to cheating right in front of there man and laugh about it. One of the biggest reason I don't even do dating apps is because I've met so many married women on there. It feels like 90% of people on there are there for a one nighter or to cheat.
I've never seen those . However, I agree with your saying and it's so discouraging. There is no real type of relationship nowadays it seems like. You're right, majority of people I encounter in dating apps are single parents, are in a poly relationship, divorced, just things that I don't want to be in. Not trying to be mean but it's just a lot of stuff that is not genuine. Not shaming anybody but the people on kind of are just looking for a quick fix so to speak. And you're right, a lot of people seem to be in relationships already or just looking for hookups on dating apps.
Its a dark comedy about being people being turned into animals if they are not in a relationship by 30. I'm around your age and reading peoples responses to your post, I think it would resonate with people on here. I think INFPs are just cats in human form.
Oh snap. I’ll be transforming any day now 😂
I will either be a bunny or a cat. We will have to wait and see.
Apparently my great great grandfather (Native American) told my mom my spirit animal was a bunny, so there’s that.
But I did an aura phot thing and when the lady printed out my results instead of a human shadow on the paper it was a playful cat 😂 She kept apologizing saying she did t know what happened. no problem 😉 I’m totally happy to be a cat.
I might have to check on the movie? Show? It sounds interesting
That's interesting. I have a Native friend who also believes in that spiritual animal stuff and I always did wonder what my sprite animal was.
You should watch it with someone else. The ending is a good conversation starter. Don't look up anything.
I’m not sure how much I personally believe in it, but I like the idea for sure.
Hmmm… this might have to wait awhile than. When I remake my public debut, I will find someone to watch it with. 😂 I’ll have to add it to my notes.
I want to give up on it too. Admittedly, I don't date in person, even though that's what I think I'd prefer. Every time I delete the apps I keep coming back to them because I don't want to feel totally left out lol
Aw, I get it. I’ve been burned way too many times to even think about new friends and dating. Dating in person is something I prefer and if I want to date online later, I can, it’s just I can’t find someone for my personality and that only. It’s just always about a gain and it sucks. I wish you the best out there OP. You seem nice
It’s all a game, you can’t opt out, if you choose to not play, you will still lose. This works for dating and also getting ahead in life.
I still think there’s someone out there for everyone, it helps knowing who you are and who is a good fit for you. I suggest you read Robert Greene’s The Art of Seduction and get a sense of what person you are, and who your ideal match is. Once you know this, you can better target these traits in people you meet online and IRL. Whoever is leftover with these filters will be more appreciative of you and you have a higher chance of having a quality relationship.
I feel like so many of us are hiding in our rooms or behind our friends (if you even have any) because the world has gotten so freakin harsh that it's hard to imagine that spark happening. Death of third spaces and communities, atomization, division between every group and identity facilitated by the media, we all know it sucks now and it's hard to imagine breaking out of it.
The spark has happened for me before so I know it exists, but it seems so unattainable now. I graduated college and try to join interest groups and what not but it's all men or people much older than myself.
Yep, the ways of meeting people organically are pretty much non existent, due to the reasons you mentioned, and nobody wants to approach others in public, due to scrutiny or fear of getting in some sort of trouble. It's funny to think that every generation before ours pretty much had to approach people in public to even get a date, let alone marry and eventually have kids. We wouldn't be here if our parents had that mentality where approaching people was looked down upon. That is how people have been getting together since the dawn of civilization.
First off, you're absolutely right.
But when you say "approach in public" I think it means a lot of different things to different people. Approaching a random on the street imo probably hasn't ever worked super well and is a numbers game that has never really been worth playing. But approaching an interesting stranger at an event or place where you have a common interest should be encouraged. This is what's disappearing due to the things I mentioned.
What's driving me insane is it seems like going to art events where it isn't necessarily your favorite famous artist where it costs $100+ for a ticket, like a local band or whatever, is almost becoming a thing only done by people who are 35+. These used to be events that young people would flood into and create communities and scenes. Now they've become ghost towns especially post-covid.
Yes and I meant like at a time where it's appropriate to approach someone. I agree you shouldn't just walk to a random person on the street. But like even in group settings people don't try, I feel like nowadays, even at social gatherings where it would be more acceptable. Maybe it's because these things, as you have said, aren't really out there in the world anymore. People just don't naturally hang out anymore.
I'm glad we're on the same page lol :)
It's so depressing. Seems like there's this huge gender war online which seeps into online dating. I just want a real connection and not to be taken advantage. I also personally don't like kissing on the first date, and people really don't know how to read body language and almost try to force it. I just want to get to know someone first before anything physical, you are basically still a stranger to me after a first date. That may just be a personal preference that I literally need to state at the start of the date, but that just seems like an off-putting way to start a date...
Exactly. And if that's what's expected on the first date, what are they expecting from me on the second and third? The whole thing makes me so uncomfortable and discouraged.
Some people give up and throw themselves to the wind Unfortunately if I'm honest Instagram and discord communities that aren't even meant for dating make better dating apps. When you go on dating apps you don't know people and while you there's bios they will never be enough and the easiest thing to do is to just swipe until you find someone attractive to you. Dating apps are horrible
Yeah I can see that, other apps that have more than a few pics and a prompt might lead to better connections. I just don't really use social media in general haha. And yes dating apps are horrible! Guys don't even really try anymore besides sending "hey beautiful" and then get mad when I don't respond, to that boring intro? lol that they probably send to 70 other women?
I know what you mean, and I dispise how it's like that. I always know people who are in comminted relationships or are having child, and they still talk about other women and wanting to be with them as if they're single. Like, dude you just took your gf out and spoiled her, and you over here asking this other girl out on a date?
I assume it's the same for women in their private talks. Its a fun popular trend to go out and hook up with as many people as you can for status. It's stupid and cringe.
I hate it lol. If you're dating someone, STAY COMMITED to that person. Don't even talk to me and flirt if you're in a relationship, if you're already seeing someone. I don't even want to acknowedge your existence unless it's just a strictly friendly thing. I hate it when women in commited relationships try to flirt or hook up with me I feel insulted, I WANT something serious and I want to be commited to one person only. It's also a massive turn-off, I've lost a ton of attraction towards a woman who did this a lot. To me displays they have no self-respect for themselves or their partner, no self-control, not bright at all, and are not commited. To love and to be loved is the #1 greatest feeling/pleasure to me, it makes me want to live forever. And I hope to find it again someday, and hopefully have it truly reciprocated.
This might be a good time to point out the concept of "enshittification" and how dating apps were among the first to fall. In other words the apps now only exist as a cash farm and it's in their best interest of the app companies to keep them shit.
I'd probably suggest finding a different means than the apps if for no other reason than your own self-interest. Between the privacy nightmare presented by them to the way their services work, the whole thing wreaks of corruption and it's honestly safer to opt out of them these days.
just got out of my first situationship at 30 after my relationship of 8 years ended. honestly i’m feeling like everyone is doomed to want who treats them like shit, and that showing you like them and care turns people away.
edit: it’s a little reassuring finishing reading your last few sentences and seeing you have the same complaint i do. maybe it’s just hard to find people who value that, or actually want that
Dating has always been awful because people who are awful pretend to be good and now, we have so many people who feel entitled to have sex and a partner without doing any work on themselves. If they’re not being picked, they’re being oppressed and victimized. Everyone wants to blame their lack of success on external factors that they can’t change and hate everyone else for not handing them what they think they’re owed.
Yeahhh- just delete the apps. There’s no one worth your time on there. I honestly feel like out of all of the types, INFPs just don’t do well on those apps; it’s rare if we actually find someone decent because most of us want like, genuine love, and most (99.6%) of the people on those apps obvs don’t want genuine love.
Your best bet is to manifest someone to you, because finding a genuine guy on those things is like searching for 1 gold needle mixed in with millions of silver needles- a never ending search… I gave up looking a longgg time ago. I’ve only had 1 serious relationship like, 7 years ago because I know exactly what I want, and I know “he” is out there somewhere; settling isn’t an option, so I’m bringing him, to me, rather than endlessly searching around.
Bring “the one” to you, as they probably can’t find you either 😆 go fig.
Dating is weird because the internet mainly, I believe.
Something I learned recently is that sometimes a meal is made a little more delicious by watching it slowly be created. The time and attention focused into the little things and visual details make it all the more enjoyable to eat.
I think people are very similar. One has to take the time to unravel them slowly in different contexts and situations to ever get a true sense of joy from being in their company.
And to me, the main issue is simply a lack of that time. We are “too efficient” now. And that efficiency has become so high that no static communities form where people just meet and vibe. Girls have their spaces for each other. Guys have their spaces for each other. But there is very few multisex gatherings other than work and that’s rife with all kinds of other considerations and variables that isn’t all that great for building trust and community.
I try not to look at shallowness as a cause in and of itself because I know most people do not actually want to be shallow per se, at least in my discussions with them. Shallowness is a symptom of a Low Trust environment. And that to me is the issue.
There us no context or space where anyone could go, even if they are awkward, and just bump into the social space until they find their people. There arent people, on mass, just heading to the park to vibe, "alone, with people". And the Distrust has gotten so high, that even if one were to do that, they'd actually expect to be left alone instead of welcome an interaction in a public place.
So Dating apps, like all of the internet, is the strange substitute for this. And the Internet seems to consistently have the same effect on any social domain it touches. Gamifying. There aren't really any consequences for starting to turn people into a commodity online, or acting at the expense of someones trust. being rude, disrespectful, manipulative, not keeping one's word, or even simply acting out of fear of people. In real life, or in a community, youd be hurt physically or excommunicated from the social environment because youd be damaging the Trust that keeps that community alive. And for all of human history, Trust was the Life or Death Resource for just about everybody.
Why is our era an exception?
On a base level, we have become so wealthy & our systems have become so robust that we no longer depend on that trust to have society churn forward. But the result is that the Culture is a Zombie Husk of experimentation for things that do not work for the human soul and for stable connection long term. and these "experimentations" are really just inspired entirely by our primal wirings as men and women. What you are seeing is essentially humanity returning to a primal state of being in a Modern world. Thats why you feel so out of place.
women's monkey brain treats regular men as threats they need to be saved from by a powerful man. men's monkey brain treats all women as objects to shake sex out of. the result is hordes of women running headfirst into the same set of guys to save them from the "other men" and having sex being shaken out of them by men with too many options to do anything but that. Or the inverse of that, women picking up an average man who she feels "safe" with but really who she feels safe with because she can control him, and forcing him to be a shield for her in exchange for "Love" itself, the thing she sells to him. These are just the Male & Female expressions of "Dominant Positioning" in relationships on a Primal Level. Man, a defacto harem, Woman, a defacto slave (ideally multiple).
So I think your resistance to it is valid. it's literally animal behavior. Imagine using the need for Love (both the Men and Women) to create such abominations for Power and Leverage. But such is the times.
the only real answer is to genuinely and deeply choose yourself and go completely unconventional. Get weird. In this environment weird, instead of being just something that excommunicates you, becomes a beacon to the kind of people you want around. it will likely never work out on dating apps, so literally dont bother. You cant see the slow unfolding of a person in a high stakes meeting of a dating app. We all need way more time to feel out someone's character. To me, the next best thing, at least for the modern era is making online friend groups that do something like a community game or chat on a server or whatever. online social events. i hate that thats the best shot i see, but it fulfills the condition of really just getting to see people's character outside of the intense context of a 1 on 1. But obviously the cost are a bunch more things. The point though is you need multi sex friends and events.
You have an advantage in that, most people you meet will feel the same way. The bad news is, that they will distrust you the same way too lol. do with all that, what you will.
I truly feel for those who are younger, decent, and kind people trying to date now. All my buddies who I’d consider great candidates to become a spouse are single! They can’t find a sane, supportive, honest, and responsible prospect to propose to. I’m sure they’re out there, but I don’t envy yall. I’m 39 and been married 15 years. Selection is so insanely important with marriage. It’s a lifelong covenant that only makes your life better if it stands the test of time.
Recently signed up for bumble, I've given each of the dating apps a chance over the years and honestly nothing has changed. It's still a cesspool, I dont see how I will meet a soul mate on them, but I'm trying to con myself into believing it's worth a try lmao.
Havent given a fuck about it for YEARS
its just sounds barely worth it for me. everyone either demands prince charming, or has the personality of patrick starfish
i know little to nothing because i was in a long term relationship that lasted 4 and a half years. recently just ended, too, so there's that. big sad mode (even though it's my own fault)
I have nothing to compare it to so I can't say it's any worse now than in the past.
But I'm late 30s and was able to pretty easily find my first girlfriend on Hinge last year.
I'm going to be 20 and honestly around my age, everything feels superficial. People are either too self absorved, too strict or too focused on the sexual aspect. I had 2 ldr and in both I felt I needed to step out of my comfort zone because I didnt want to displease my partner. I'm just going to wait until I gain some independency from my parents and also until I meet someone that views relationships the same way I do and is willing to put in the effort and choose to be with me
I don't really use social media besides reddit, so I only really hear about the trends you're describing second-hand. That said, my take is that anyone who allows their whole world view and dating choices to be dictated by social media trends isn't someone who's gonna stand firm in their values when shit actually gets real. And I can only assume most women would rather their man be a "rock" in hard times and not so easily swayed by whichever way the "popular" sentiment is leaning. These are the "weak men who create hard times", and it might take some of those hard times before these guys really reevaluate their priorities.
That said, it's not always as deep as that some guys just legitimately have a thing for "baddie" type girls, and I believe there is room for many different "niches" within the dating market. But it's the indiscriminate pandering to social trends that concerns me.
I have never in my life wanted a toxic girl. Every guy who wants that annoying bullshit is braindead. That type of behavior is not cute nor fun. I want someone who won't stress me out and make me feel like shit. Unfortunately modern society rewards being problematic so people act accordingly. It also doesn't help that people who act this way are more prone to having sex alot quicker than others. It's all one big game to everyone out here and the ones who want something serious get left in the dust. Also you think this is bad for you? Alot of ya'll don't even bother giving a guy a chance if he's not a manipulative douche who is on a certain looks/height level. I don't want to here any of ya'll's complaints. Choose the men who don't like toxic girls. It shouldn't matter how unattractive they are to you. It's all about personality right 🙄?
Apps don’t work for everyone (including me). As a demisexual person who doesn’t like hookup culture and ONS, I hated the shallowness out there.
But I started dating my current partner (we met thru mutual friends) and she made me feel really loved.
There are people like you out there who are looking for you. Please keep your chin up.
Is this online dating? I feel like it's a breeding ground for narcissistic people to get their fix to be honest. In all my experiences from meeting someone, they ended up not being good people.
I think that people who are well-adjusted don't need apps because they meet other decent people in real life. There are ones that last though. I know a few long-term couples that met through apps.
Yeah I know a couple of people that have gotten married off of dating apps and that's honestly very surprising. And you're right, a lot of people with issues turn to dating apps and they find a lot of like-minded people there. I'm looking forward to more in-person connections.
Probably not going to date now that I’m in my mid 50s. I was married, engaged twice and had a kid who isn’t a kid anymore. Even though I’m alone, I’m trying to do the work on myself that I always wanted to do (therapist, physical, etc) and that is taking up my entire time in the day. Bringing another in for that wouldn’t be fair. After all, I’m doing it for myself, not for anyone else.
I’m pretty much done at this point.
Society is infected with Wetiko. So, it is not surprising that the dating apps are also infected with a mind virus. I agree, that this sucks. Society probably has to collapse and go through a dark ages and eventually an "Enlightenment" before dating is ever fixed. Is there some way we could kind of get by in the meantime?
I have actually never tried a dating app. If I do, I would want to talk to one person at a time. How does one know when to give up talking to the first person and move on to talking a second?
I have been a catalyst in other people's love, but I do not know how to find it myself. For example, I once said to my INFJ best friend: "Hey, that's your future wife! Go ask her out!"; he listened to my advice, and they have now been happily married for almost seven years.
You know when it's time to stop talking to the first person when they randomly stop responding to you 😂 Seriously, you can send them the most thought-out response and they just don't respond because they are most likely meeting with someone else. Then when that doesn't work, they come back and say "sorry I disappeared". It's a fun time lmaoo. You almost have to talk many people at once, just to see which one actually materializes into a real-life date. It's sad.
Mostly replying to Curious Nymph (though an insights from any INFP, INTP, INFJ, ENFP, or ISFP would be appreciated):
Based on the “randomly stop responding” criteria, it sounds like it is time for me to move on from my current crush. I introduced myself with a story, posted a selfie, engaged in fun, friendly conversation, shared a song she loved, poured a latte with a banded heart, hand wrote a note and placed it beside the latte, and shared the picture of the heart latte with the note. Then things went quiet on her end though she did say she was going to be very busy beforehand. I think the pause/break was forced by her schedule. I am guessing she also lost interest though after the forced pause/break. I may have made a mistake when I continued to share music and write more. I even apologized for writing so much, which was sincere in the moment, but then wrote again the next day. Some of what I wrote was may have been unnecessary, demonstrating that I was clingy, but I think some people would like the attention. During her silent period, I began learning one of the languages she knows - some basic Japanese; I have a 13 day duo lingo streak. Next, I did wrote the beginning of a short story. She came back to make a comment and then has been silent again since.
To Master Goose: So, other guys rarely put in the effort that I put in (see above paragraph)? What about male INFPs? Have you ever conversed with male INFPs? Maybe there just aren’t enough INFP men in the world.
I may need some more context as to how you know this person - are they a friend you've known or someone you just met? Is this all virtual communication, have you met in person?
I would say definitely don't wait around and move on. Those actions are sweet, but it may come across as a lot for someone. Especially if this is someone you do not know very well, but yea I would need context of your relationship. If it's not being reciprocated, I wouldn't continue sending her anything. You shouldn't have to beg for someone's attention, you have done enough to show your interest and she is giving minimal responses. You don't want this turning into an anxious/avoidant attachment type of relationship.
The context is all virtual (met here on the INFP sub), which is not a way I have met people before; so I feel like a fish out of water even more than usual.
Everything you have written makes sense, and I had some of the same thoughts but didn’t want to admit that they probably correspond to reality. I think I am ready now. Thank you for your assistance. Much appreciated!
I'm not completely dismissing what you're saying, but toxic people and cheaters aren't new to the dating scene. as women, what we've specifically gained in this climate is absolutely a blessing, especially compared to what our mothers and grandmothers had. most of us now have something that older generations either didn't have at all or had much less of, options. there are countless options available today.
finding the ideal partner isn't necessarily easier, as many of us have higher standards now, which is a good thing. but for example, if it takes me two weeks or a month to find a date with someone I find attractive, who shares my hobbies, loves cats, and has similar political beliefs, my mother probably had to search for years. my grandmother wouldn't have even dreamed of something like this. to be more precise, she didn't have much choice when it came to marriage itself, let alone finding a date with whom she had a lot in common.
so, in general, I like what we have now. do I like everything happening with the culture? probably not, but I appreciate the idea of having options.
also, may I also suggest not spending even a second thinking about, let alone talking to, the "no good women left" type of guys? there are millions of others who aren't loser crybabies looking for a mommy/therapist on a dating app.
I’ve been on 5 dates with this amazing ENFP woman, I shared my vulnerability with her, and we’re both taking it slowly, though I like her a lot and she likes me, we agreed. I absolutely abhors dating apps and explored that scene, women on there are too picky and choosy, that’s why I met her the rough a mutual friend I’ve known for a long time. She thinks I’m interesting, handsome, cool, a bit feminine, which isn’t a bad thing. She’s met my folks, painted with me, and I will continue to pursue her. As one says “slow and steady wins the race” 😊
It's challenging for sure and I used to feel the same way... **Then I started taking it as a challenge to grow as a person!**
Remember that everything you feel now is in your control for how you use it to influence your next steps in life. I realized that I NEEDED to take accountability for my own negative emotions and make myself feel better in those moments where it was going bad.
Once I started adopting that mindset - dating became fun and less depressing. Everything that I do feels good now and not nerve wracking. Even if it doesn't work out - I'm learning and growing constantly from those mistakes and pitfalls.
Those failed attempts don't make me weaker - *but actually stronger!*
I encourage anyone to take responsibility for your own emotional state and use these lessons to be empowered instead of defeated!
Oh, wow, it's like you've just illustrated your own version of the Strength Tarot card with these words. I have saved this comment. Thank you Motion Ocean!
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I feel the same way. It's extremely frustrating. You have every right to feel that way because it is horrible. No one wants to stand up and talk about it. Maybe a few people do but most people just worry about fitting in and that's what's so effing annoying.
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Yes. They have a totally warped way of thinking. Makes me wonder how they are trying to even date. They don't even know what's good for them or what they even want. Let alone how to navigate people's character and their own character for that matter.
Hey take me out to dinner first before you "F" me lol. Honestly it takes courage and heart to keep searching for compatible people. It has always been a process - never a solved equation that you need to follow steps to completion for. Take it as a challenge to grow and become the person you'd most want to date or see in the world instead of becoming bitter and closed off. Too many people who already have that job lol.
It gets better as you get older. Went out with a guy last week. He planned an entire day of things he thought I would appreciate or like and knocked it out the park. There’s still some decent people who put in effort out there!
Well I'm glad to hear you had a good experience.
Yeah, unfortunately it hasn’t been the norm but I just wanted to speak some positivity to you and let you know there’s still hope lol.
Don't think you are really given how the other replies are you seeking out the same validation for your claims on the dating space being terrible. It's okay to be honest in these cases - only makes it easier to learn lessons and become the people we want to be in life.
This gives me hope. Glad you found a treasure. hope it ends up working out.
Modern dating is an absolute wasteland. Never would I have imagined that cheating & narcissistic tendencies would be so openly embraced, by both men & women. Pornagraphy, social media, & swiping culture seem to be rotting people's ability to form genuine connections. With that said, I remain steadfast in my suspicion that I will find a fulfilling, loving partner. There are simply too many good people in this world to allow the toxicity to drain my perspective.
Yes. I agree 100% with everything you said. I'm trying to remain optimistic as well. Thank you for seeing it the way I do lol. There's not even many people I can discuss this with because they don't feel the same way. It's nice to hear that. And I agree dating apps and social media have made people just become so lazy and there's like no effort required anymore to get to know someone. Guys send one word messages and then get mad at me for not responding, yet they don't even want to formulate some sort of conversation opener. I don't know what they want. Is it for me to do all the work? Lol
> Is it for me to do all the work? Sadly, for many of them 'yes' is the answer to your query. Sit back and wait for the other person to take care of things. It just reveals their attitude about dating: "Entertain me"
It is rough out there. What I’ve noticed is that lots of people seem to be very proud of their immaturity and self-centeredness, it’s like a badge of honor. Hopefully that’s just a cultural phase we’re going through, I’ve taken it as a sign that I need to just work on myself for the time being rather than seek out a partner.
Yes, it seems like they are proud of being shitty, for a lack of a better word. Lol. And they expect that their partner is going to treat them the same, that's why no real effort is put in anymore. I don't like that kind of messiness and so that's probably why I'm single!
I agree! Maybe some people are like that because they're just lazy and don't want to fix their own issues, but I also think a lot of people were not given good methods of dealing with their childhood issues and trauma so they don't know exactly how to address their problems, and they just externalize it all.
I think so too! It manifests itself in the relationships and types of people they pursue. It looks like we both can see right through it lol. Edit: I also think people date people who will be accepted by their friends, like guys want to date a girl that will impress their guy friends. That seems to be a factor, like she has to look and act a certain way, and they will reject a girl who maybe has genuine values/qualities but they know they will be possibly talked about and she won't "fit in" which really, really sucks. But I think since I am reserved, this may be happening to me a bit? I don't participate in whats trendy lol.
Well I can always see right through it when I'm by myself sitting all comfy at the computer haha. When I'm actually dealing with people face to face well that's a little more challenging. I'm always drawn to being in a relationship, which can lead me to get into situations with people who aren't really good for me :/ but I'm working on it!
I feel that. Same there. I also hope it’s a phase. It has to be right
Having waited till 34 to even feel like I was in an emotional/mental state where I felt capable and ready for dating, everything feels gross. Swiping on people feels like I'm at a store trying to decide on what to get in hopes that they are anything like what I am interested in, with most profiles having a few pictures and half a sentence saying anything about them making it impossible to tell anything real about who they are or what kinds of things they enjoy or are looking for. I try hard to look into every part of their pictures and prompts to get any sort of view of who they are but it feels like most are ether afraid of showing themselves or actively avoiding it for some reason(possibly to have a broader appeal?). Every time I am on an app they shove it into my face that I should really pay money to them to get the most basic of functionality that make no sense to hide behind a paywall if they have any interest in helping anyone not paying. Everything about it just grosses me out and makes me sure that there is no way I am going to find someone there. Beyond the apps I feel like places where people used to just hang out and talk to others are disappearing outside of niche group activities, and while it is very much my own hangups I am having such trouble just getting myself out there to find people to approach or be approached by in hopes of finding others I can relate to. I honestly feel like I just hit a difficulty wall of a game and am looking over my choices to find that I somehow made all the wrong calls that make it close to impossible to proceed. Sorry for the long rant but it feels good to put some of my frustrations into words, and thanks to anyone who read it.
I get it. Thanks for your comment, yes, even meeting people in real life is a bit of a struggle nowadays, because everything still so social media centric that I find that I can't find the motivation or interest to even participate, and nobody even approaches others anymore, from my experience. edit: I hate the stupid paywalls on the dating apps and I can't believe anyone actually signs up for them, when it still doesn't seem to work as those guys still send the most low effort messages
My cousin suggested that I use Meet-Up to meet new people with similar interests. Not necessarily for dating as she met most of her friends that way, but you could potentially meet a nice single person.
I have been looking at meetup, most of the groups I see are not really what I am looking for, and I know its worth me going and exploring things that are not exactly as I hope and I am working on it, I just need to get better at being more out there and talking to others, which is hard for me.
I hear you, I have to damn near force myself to do uncomfortable social things. A good trick is to spray on some of your favorite cologne right beforehand for a confidence boost. Take a few big breaths and then just go for it. Once you get going the momentum will take over.
Never used cologne, thanks for the suggestion.
Be careful, it is an addicting hobby, and expensive. I have a 60+ bottle collection, and I have to cut myself off from buying anymore this year 😂
Oh wow, I have never even looked into them. Any pointers if I want to just get something basic?
If I were to only get one bottle then I would want it to something fresh, mass appealing, attractive to the ladies, and on the upper end price range to be more distinctive. For that I would recommend Acqua Di Gio Parfum. It also is ideal for use in the summer, and you should be able to test it at Sephora.
Meet-up could be a good move but in my area I found it to be mainly populated by older Gen X and up. Nothing wrong with that, just not the kind of people I'm trying to meet as a zoomer.
I feel it. Rant away. Also in my early 30s and not really feeling emotionally/mentally ready for the kind of thriving relationship I want. Working on it slowly. Maybe 34 is the magic number. I’ll be ready at 34. Hopefully something shifts a little in the culture by then.
I wish you the best of luck😊
Thanks 😊 you too
I've pretty much given up on dating, it's never happened for me, and it never will.
TBH I've only been in 1 relationship ever... I'm reaching 30 and feel like it will never happen to me as well.
I turned 32 in April. i didn't want to give up hope it seems so easy for everyone around me, but It's hard not to give up no one ever liked me back.
Hey I turned 31 in April! But also, same. I get this feeling so hard. People keep saying there’s more fish in the sea, without realizing how fucking huge the proverbial sea is. Shit gets taxing lol
What I hate is the people who rely on "its just a matter of time, everyone has someone out there for them and it will happen when you least expect it" those are just idioms, and I wish those people realized that there is no greater force that is going to play matchmaker or that everyone has someone they are compatible with to begin with, that they will even get to meet! there are 7 billion people roughly on Earth right now, and yes, you may click with some of them, but the chances you will meet them are slim when you consider the size of the earth and the amount of people in it. so no, i don't agree that this magical person is out there waiting for me or vice versa. I've known plenty of people with good personalities and good hearts who die single or keep ending up in bad relationships. We are not all entitled to a romantic relationship and the people who think we do annoy me lol. Good person or not, we cannot guarantee that we will meet someone to date who ends up being our "soulmate".
Not so long ago, a friend said to me "there's a lid for every pot". It's been running on constant playback when going about my life and whenever i see misery in person, my brain is just like "is there a lid for that pot?" and it becomes a matter of creativity and the amount of coping I'm willing to muster up that day because in the end, the only reason I try to prove or disprove this assumption is because i ask myself "is there a lid for my pot?" and honestly the answer is just that I don't know. I have a hard time just accepting that simple fact that I just don't know and it would be way easier to choose a side that makes me feel better (or worse) about myself because at least then I would believe to "know".
Were the same age, 28INFP M I’ve had a couple of serious relationships and in between dated around. It’s kinda whack and I’m in a situation now where I’m gonna do my thing, if it happens again sick and if it doesn’t so what lol
Me too. I’m 31 and same only 1 relationships and he wasn’t even from my country. I’m American and I have never had any faith in the dating pool here. I see too much drama, games, dishonesty and cheating. Media makes it worse cause it makes it seem like all the cool pretty people are toxic so you should be toxic too. 🤮 I know it’s not everyone, but the guys who don’t do those things tend not to be as proactive it seems in the dating pool. Which makes sense, but doesn’t help. I have always wonder why seem to choose really bitchy girls/ drama queens. They might be pretty, but is it really worth it? It confuses me. There was a guy I knew and he was trying to remember a song he liked by a band I like. The song was called “Hollywood Whore”. He had processed the “whore” in the song as a 👸 princess. 🤦♀️ How? It was very sad to me. I hear women complaining all the time about guys finding wives abroad but I’m kind of on the same train. I don’t blame them at all. It doesn’t help that I really don’t want to meet my life partner on a dating app. It’s so unromantic. And then You have to sell yourself on your profile basically. I’m not into that.
I have a hard time with the idea of selling myself via a dating app. I think I’ll do okay when I’m eventually ready though. I am in therapy to learn about boundaries, red flags, overcoming codependency and so on so I’m hoping all of that will be worth it.
Most people do not learn about themselves to the degree that you're doing, and I'm glad you are doing that for yourself. I think its the key to a healthy relationship eventually. I am somewhat doing this by working on myself, and not feeling pressured to be out there and commit to someone or something that I don't feel is genuine to me. Saving myself from potentially being hurt and wasting time.
Haha thank you:) I’ve definitely had to do this because I’ve been in a relationship that was not ideal to put it mildly and I don’t want that to happen again. Yeah it’s a good idea to learn more about what you want and ESPECIALLY how to listen to yourself and be a whole secure person so that you’re not afraid to say no to things that aren’t for you!
🙌 same. Let’s go self- improvement! To the future and a better life 🥂
When my mother was young, men would take women for dinner, bring them gifts and didn't think of sleeping together in the first date. Lucky days. I feel love today is extremely cheap and disgusting. That's why I write romantic novels instead of wasting my time going out with guys I don't even respect. I don't sleep around. If I have sexual urges, I channel them into my creative work. And having to pay half and half...! It would have been social suicide during my parents' youth, yet today it's accepted. I can never love a guy who makes me pay for my dinner, even if he was the hottest man on Earth. You want to sleep with me, we may get married one day, yet you can't pay me a meal?! Go to hell! By the way, I'm older than you.
I’ve actually been considering using writing as a kind of outlet for this too. I don’t think I could do a whole romance novel, but maybe a short story. I’m having trouble developing a consistent writing habit even though I want to. It’s been a challenge, but I feel inspired. I’ll keep trying . 😊
The habit of writing every day is not for P types. Don't force yourself to get into a habit like that. You'll create a lot when the feeling strikes. I'm glad you're inspired. Good luck!
Oh. Ok. Thanks for the tip 😊
The idea of always paying to take a woman out or being with a girl who always wants to be paid for is not fair or rational in 2024. Women are expected to hold jobs today out of necessity and are often better educated then the average man. If we're in a relationship then it's different where in that case I'm spending money on someone that I care about and have a real connection with no matter her economic status. But in that case I'd expect to be paid for occasionally as well. The man always paying was the historical norm when women were expected to be homemakers and didn't often have the rights or means to provide for themselves. It kept women dependent and subservient to men. Now it comes off as increasingly selfish and self-centered considering cultural shifts and modern economic conditions. To be clear, if both parties consent then I have no problem with a man always paying. People are still like that and that's okay.
I believe I have a lot to offer and expect the man to make an effort to woo me and even more effort to get into my panties. That's how it's always been, even in nature. Paying for a meal is too much effort for you, my date? Then go away. Women should pay even if they earn a lot less than men in the same job? Put up in the first date(s)? Looks to me everything got better for men and worse for women.
You said it right, and I agree with your last sentence about being influence by music and social media. I want to add that TV shows and movies have messed up the modern dating scene too. People think they do not get influenced by these things. But it is arrogant to think so. The producers of channels such as MTV, etc knows that the masses get influenced and swayed in the direction that they want people to get swayed in A quote from the founder of MTV "The strongest appeal you can make is emotionally. If You can get their emotions going, make them forget their logic, You've got em! At MTV, We don't shoot for the 14 year old. We own them!" - Robert Pittman He is not the only one there are plenty of others/producers that had said something along these lines. So back to modern dating. I was out of the dating scene since 2017 because I decided to focus on my kids, spirituality, learning new things. It was so worth it because I have found my beliefs, values, and goals and will never change these things for anyone. The principle of wholesome dating is to get to know someone to see if our beliefs, values, and goals are aligned; and then find out if our personality is compatible. It is actually very casual and takes the pressure of. Bc I tell the men I want to be friends with the potential of it becoming something more. I want a best friend as my life partner. Well this is how I am doing things. But I have faith that there is someone out there who I will be compatible with.
Thank you!!! I totally agree. It drives me up the wall when people say, “ It doesn’t influence me. Maybe gullible people are influenced, but not me” 😤 How are you so blind? There might be some exceptions of course, but for the average person. No. Your influenced. Doesn’t mean your are going to do everything you see on tv but it totally colors your opinions, what you view are good,cool, acceptable, and so on. If people weren’t influenced by media then major trends wouldn’t even exist. - sorry. It just blows my mind. Your brain soaks up everything. We are constantly learning and not just from school books. People think they are learning things when they are conscious of it. With media/entertainment most of the stuff you’re “learning” is unconscious I think. The quote was a great example.
Exactly! "If people weren't influenced then major trends wouldn't even exist." And you're right most of the stuff people see on the media is internalized subconciously. And each year the messages to young people are getting worst. I observed this from the young generations today and 6 year olds have so much attitude towards their peers when they dont get what they want because cartoon characters these days have so much attitude. Of course kids are going to emulate that because they think those characters are cool. Yes those producers and media owners target the young of course. Because they are the most moldable. So I am careful now with what media I consume and what I let my kids see. But ever since learning this truth I mostly turn to readings and videos that will edify my mind and turn to contents where I can learn some insights about my interests. Here is another quote "If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it." -Edward Bernace founder of public relations nephew of Sigmund Freud,' a specialist in propaganda, the author of the book, "Propaganda" There are so much more quotes! Lol
I feel so understood 😭 Your making me feel like there is still hope for humanity ❤️ God bless
The biggest issue I had was going on dates with a guy who had sex with another girl he was also seeing last night… immediately repulsive. Seeing multiple people at the same time is not for me. I cannot deal with the hookup culture and the stupid rules of the dating app game. Too many people just looking for easy fun, lying left and right to get laid, and running away from commitment. As someone who wants to save herself for marriage, I realized this isn’t going to work for me. Everybody else is in situationships and I don’t want that. Whatever happened to deep emotional connection, mutual respect, legit EFFORT, long-term commitment and LOVE ???
Definitely, I totally understand what you're saying. There is nothing meaningful. It's all about instant gratification and sex nowadays. Low effort conversation, etc. these are the same people who end up wondering why they keep getting their heart broken. They are in no position to complain, especially when they go for those types of "toxic" people and they're contributing to it. Talking about shooting yourself in the foot. They don't even know what they're doing. I'm glad you see it the way I do. Almost nobody wants commitment and they want to keep things casual. Which is fine for some people I guess, but it seems to be like nobody wants an actual committed relationship. It's like finding a needle in the haystack nowadays.
Too complicated for me honestly (28M here). I do want to date but I've tried for years with no luck whatsoever
I'm 41. And no dates since early 2020 (before lockdown had one date in Jan 2020). App dating culture is hell. And actually meeting someone is a disaster. No long term relationship since my then fiancee and I broke it off in 2015. Only hope is that things are better in a different city since Southern California hasn't been happy times in this area but I'm moving in 2 weeks.
Sorry about the break up. That’s rough, but better not to marry someone who you will eventually want to escape from. Good luck with your move. SoCal is rough. Hollywood is too close I think. 🤔
i hate dating apps so i'm hoping the love of my life shows up on my doorstep one of these days
Same 😂 if only right
Have you seen those man on the street interviews? Some girls will just admit to cheating right in front of there man and laugh about it. One of the biggest reason I don't even do dating apps is because I've met so many married women on there. It feels like 90% of people on there are there for a one nighter or to cheat.
I've never seen those . However, I agree with your saying and it's so discouraging. There is no real type of relationship nowadays it seems like. You're right, majority of people I encounter in dating apps are single parents, are in a poly relationship, divorced, just things that I don't want to be in. Not trying to be mean but it's just a lot of stuff that is not genuine. Not shaming anybody but the people on kind of are just looking for a quick fix so to speak. And you're right, a lot of people seem to be in relationships already or just looking for hookups on dating apps.
Have you ever watched The Lobster? I'd be an eagle.
lol no I haven't
Its a dark comedy about being people being turned into animals if they are not in a relationship by 30. I'm around your age and reading peoples responses to your post, I think it would resonate with people on here. I think INFPs are just cats in human form.
I used to be a human. Meow I’m a cat.
I bet dating is pretty purr-plexing when you are a cat!
Oh snap. I’ll be transforming any day now 😂 I will either be a bunny or a cat. We will have to wait and see. Apparently my great great grandfather (Native American) told my mom my spirit animal was a bunny, so there’s that. But I did an aura phot thing and when the lady printed out my results instead of a human shadow on the paper it was a playful cat 😂 She kept apologizing saying she did t know what happened. no problem 😉 I’m totally happy to be a cat. I might have to check on the movie? Show? It sounds interesting
That's interesting. I have a Native friend who also believes in that spiritual animal stuff and I always did wonder what my sprite animal was. You should watch it with someone else. The ending is a good conversation starter. Don't look up anything.
I’m not sure how much I personally believe in it, but I like the idea for sure. Hmmm… this might have to wait awhile than. When I remake my public debut, I will find someone to watch it with. 😂 I’ll have to add it to my notes.
When you do, you should tell me what you thought of the ending.
Awful. I’ve given up on dating for almost a year now and it’s kinda nice. I just wish someone had some empathy because I’m slowly losing mine
I want to give up on it too. Admittedly, I don't date in person, even though that's what I think I'd prefer. Every time I delete the apps I keep coming back to them because I don't want to feel totally left out lol
Aw, I get it. I’ve been burned way too many times to even think about new friends and dating. Dating in person is something I prefer and if I want to date online later, I can, it’s just I can’t find someone for my personality and that only. It’s just always about a gain and it sucks. I wish you the best out there OP. You seem nice
That's the sad reality of it I guess :( and thank you :)
Yeah. I don’t know how people even get their forever person. Pretty crazy in this day and age. Anyways, you’re welcome
It’s all a game, you can’t opt out, if you choose to not play, you will still lose. This works for dating and also getting ahead in life. I still think there’s someone out there for everyone, it helps knowing who you are and who is a good fit for you. I suggest you read Robert Greene’s The Art of Seduction and get a sense of what person you are, and who your ideal match is. Once you know this, you can better target these traits in people you meet online and IRL. Whoever is leftover with these filters will be more appreciative of you and you have a higher chance of having a quality relationship.
We must protect this one at all cost, People.
Who, me? 😅
Who else? glad to see people out there still holding on to their Integrity. so just a compliment from me to You for being You.☮💐
Aw thank you.
I feel like so many of us are hiding in our rooms or behind our friends (if you even have any) because the world has gotten so freakin harsh that it's hard to imagine that spark happening. Death of third spaces and communities, atomization, division between every group and identity facilitated by the media, we all know it sucks now and it's hard to imagine breaking out of it. The spark has happened for me before so I know it exists, but it seems so unattainable now. I graduated college and try to join interest groups and what not but it's all men or people much older than myself.
Yep, the ways of meeting people organically are pretty much non existent, due to the reasons you mentioned, and nobody wants to approach others in public, due to scrutiny or fear of getting in some sort of trouble. It's funny to think that every generation before ours pretty much had to approach people in public to even get a date, let alone marry and eventually have kids. We wouldn't be here if our parents had that mentality where approaching people was looked down upon. That is how people have been getting together since the dawn of civilization.
First off, you're absolutely right. But when you say "approach in public" I think it means a lot of different things to different people. Approaching a random on the street imo probably hasn't ever worked super well and is a numbers game that has never really been worth playing. But approaching an interesting stranger at an event or place where you have a common interest should be encouraged. This is what's disappearing due to the things I mentioned. What's driving me insane is it seems like going to art events where it isn't necessarily your favorite famous artist where it costs $100+ for a ticket, like a local band or whatever, is almost becoming a thing only done by people who are 35+. These used to be events that young people would flood into and create communities and scenes. Now they've become ghost towns especially post-covid.
Yes and I meant like at a time where it's appropriate to approach someone. I agree you shouldn't just walk to a random person on the street. But like even in group settings people don't try, I feel like nowadays, even at social gatherings where it would be more acceptable. Maybe it's because these things, as you have said, aren't really out there in the world anymore. People just don't naturally hang out anymore. I'm glad we're on the same page lol :)
It's so depressing. Seems like there's this huge gender war online which seeps into online dating. I just want a real connection and not to be taken advantage. I also personally don't like kissing on the first date, and people really don't know how to read body language and almost try to force it. I just want to get to know someone first before anything physical, you are basically still a stranger to me after a first date. That may just be a personal preference that I literally need to state at the start of the date, but that just seems like an off-putting way to start a date...
I totally agree with you about the kissing part. Guys like expect it nowadays, they think it's a given.
Exactly. And if that's what's expected on the first date, what are they expecting from me on the second and third? The whole thing makes me so uncomfortable and discouraged.
Some people give up and throw themselves to the wind Unfortunately if I'm honest Instagram and discord communities that aren't even meant for dating make better dating apps. When you go on dating apps you don't know people and while you there's bios they will never be enough and the easiest thing to do is to just swipe until you find someone attractive to you. Dating apps are horrible
Yeah I can see that, other apps that have more than a few pics and a prompt might lead to better connections. I just don't really use social media in general haha. And yes dating apps are horrible! Guys don't even really try anymore besides sending "hey beautiful" and then get mad when I don't respond, to that boring intro? lol that they probably send to 70 other women?
I know what you mean, and I dispise how it's like that. I always know people who are in comminted relationships or are having child, and they still talk about other women and wanting to be with them as if they're single. Like, dude you just took your gf out and spoiled her, and you over here asking this other girl out on a date? I assume it's the same for women in their private talks. Its a fun popular trend to go out and hook up with as many people as you can for status. It's stupid and cringe. I hate it lol. If you're dating someone, STAY COMMITED to that person. Don't even talk to me and flirt if you're in a relationship, if you're already seeing someone. I don't even want to acknowedge your existence unless it's just a strictly friendly thing. I hate it when women in commited relationships try to flirt or hook up with me I feel insulted, I WANT something serious and I want to be commited to one person only. It's also a massive turn-off, I've lost a ton of attraction towards a woman who did this a lot. To me displays they have no self-respect for themselves or their partner, no self-control, not bright at all, and are not commited. To love and to be loved is the #1 greatest feeling/pleasure to me, it makes me want to live forever. And I hope to find it again someday, and hopefully have it truly reciprocated.
This might be a good time to point out the concept of "enshittification" and how dating apps were among the first to fall. In other words the apps now only exist as a cash farm and it's in their best interest of the app companies to keep them shit. I'd probably suggest finding a different means than the apps if for no other reason than your own self-interest. Between the privacy nightmare presented by them to the way their services work, the whole thing wreaks of corruption and it's honestly safer to opt out of them these days.
just got out of my first situationship at 30 after my relationship of 8 years ended. honestly i’m feeling like everyone is doomed to want who treats them like shit, and that showing you like them and care turns people away. edit: it’s a little reassuring finishing reading your last few sentences and seeing you have the same complaint i do. maybe it’s just hard to find people who value that, or actually want that
Dating has always been awful because people who are awful pretend to be good and now, we have so many people who feel entitled to have sex and a partner without doing any work on themselves. If they’re not being picked, they’re being oppressed and victimized. Everyone wants to blame their lack of success on external factors that they can’t change and hate everyone else for not handing them what they think they’re owed.
Met my partner on Bumble. Getting married next month. Worked out for me lol
Yeahhh- just delete the apps. There’s no one worth your time on there. I honestly feel like out of all of the types, INFPs just don’t do well on those apps; it’s rare if we actually find someone decent because most of us want like, genuine love, and most (99.6%) of the people on those apps obvs don’t want genuine love. Your best bet is to manifest someone to you, because finding a genuine guy on those things is like searching for 1 gold needle mixed in with millions of silver needles- a never ending search… I gave up looking a longgg time ago. I’ve only had 1 serious relationship like, 7 years ago because I know exactly what I want, and I know “he” is out there somewhere; settling isn’t an option, so I’m bringing him, to me, rather than endlessly searching around. Bring “the one” to you, as they probably can’t find you either 😆 go fig.
Dating is weird because the internet mainly, I believe. Something I learned recently is that sometimes a meal is made a little more delicious by watching it slowly be created. The time and attention focused into the little things and visual details make it all the more enjoyable to eat. I think people are very similar. One has to take the time to unravel them slowly in different contexts and situations to ever get a true sense of joy from being in their company. And to me, the main issue is simply a lack of that time. We are “too efficient” now. And that efficiency has become so high that no static communities form where people just meet and vibe. Girls have their spaces for each other. Guys have their spaces for each other. But there is very few multisex gatherings other than work and that’s rife with all kinds of other considerations and variables that isn’t all that great for building trust and community. I try not to look at shallowness as a cause in and of itself because I know most people do not actually want to be shallow per se, at least in my discussions with them. Shallowness is a symptom of a Low Trust environment. And that to me is the issue. There us no context or space where anyone could go, even if they are awkward, and just bump into the social space until they find their people. There arent people, on mass, just heading to the park to vibe, "alone, with people". And the Distrust has gotten so high, that even if one were to do that, they'd actually expect to be left alone instead of welcome an interaction in a public place. So Dating apps, like all of the internet, is the strange substitute for this. And the Internet seems to consistently have the same effect on any social domain it touches. Gamifying. There aren't really any consequences for starting to turn people into a commodity online, or acting at the expense of someones trust. being rude, disrespectful, manipulative, not keeping one's word, or even simply acting out of fear of people. In real life, or in a community, youd be hurt physically or excommunicated from the social environment because youd be damaging the Trust that keeps that community alive. And for all of human history, Trust was the Life or Death Resource for just about everybody. Why is our era an exception? On a base level, we have become so wealthy & our systems have become so robust that we no longer depend on that trust to have society churn forward. But the result is that the Culture is a Zombie Husk of experimentation for things that do not work for the human soul and for stable connection long term. and these "experimentations" are really just inspired entirely by our primal wirings as men and women. What you are seeing is essentially humanity returning to a primal state of being in a Modern world. Thats why you feel so out of place. women's monkey brain treats regular men as threats they need to be saved from by a powerful man. men's monkey brain treats all women as objects to shake sex out of. the result is hordes of women running headfirst into the same set of guys to save them from the "other men" and having sex being shaken out of them by men with too many options to do anything but that. Or the inverse of that, women picking up an average man who she feels "safe" with but really who she feels safe with because she can control him, and forcing him to be a shield for her in exchange for "Love" itself, the thing she sells to him. These are just the Male & Female expressions of "Dominant Positioning" in relationships on a Primal Level. Man, a defacto harem, Woman, a defacto slave (ideally multiple). So I think your resistance to it is valid. it's literally animal behavior. Imagine using the need for Love (both the Men and Women) to create such abominations for Power and Leverage. But such is the times. the only real answer is to genuinely and deeply choose yourself and go completely unconventional. Get weird. In this environment weird, instead of being just something that excommunicates you, becomes a beacon to the kind of people you want around. it will likely never work out on dating apps, so literally dont bother. You cant see the slow unfolding of a person in a high stakes meeting of a dating app. We all need way more time to feel out someone's character. To me, the next best thing, at least for the modern era is making online friend groups that do something like a community game or chat on a server or whatever. online social events. i hate that thats the best shot i see, but it fulfills the condition of really just getting to see people's character outside of the intense context of a 1 on 1. But obviously the cost are a bunch more things. The point though is you need multi sex friends and events. You have an advantage in that, most people you meet will feel the same way. The bad news is, that they will distrust you the same way too lol. do with all that, what you will.
I truly feel for those who are younger, decent, and kind people trying to date now. All my buddies who I’d consider great candidates to become a spouse are single! They can’t find a sane, supportive, honest, and responsible prospect to propose to. I’m sure they’re out there, but I don’t envy yall. I’m 39 and been married 15 years. Selection is so insanely important with marriage. It’s a lifelong covenant that only makes your life better if it stands the test of time.
Recently signed up for bumble, I've given each of the dating apps a chance over the years and honestly nothing has changed. It's still a cesspool, I dont see how I will meet a soul mate on them, but I'm trying to con myself into believing it's worth a try lmao.
Havent given a fuck about it for YEARS its just sounds barely worth it for me. everyone either demands prince charming, or has the personality of patrick starfish
I don’t like how pushy people are with sex. But maybe it’s always been that way.
i know little to nothing because i was in a long term relationship that lasted 4 and a half years. recently just ended, too, so there's that. big sad mode (even though it's my own fault)
Disheartening and discouraging.
I have nothing to compare it to so I can't say it's any worse now than in the past. But I'm late 30s and was able to pretty easily find my first girlfriend on Hinge last year.
I don't know I didn't call it a dating scene is it more just like trauma bonding I think people know how to date anymore
I'm going to be 20 and honestly around my age, everything feels superficial. People are either too self absorved, too strict or too focused on the sexual aspect. I had 2 ldr and in both I felt I needed to step out of my comfort zone because I didnt want to displease my partner. I'm just going to wait until I gain some independency from my parents and also until I meet someone that views relationships the same way I do and is willing to put in the effort and choose to be with me
I don't really use social media besides reddit, so I only really hear about the trends you're describing second-hand. That said, my take is that anyone who allows their whole world view and dating choices to be dictated by social media trends isn't someone who's gonna stand firm in their values when shit actually gets real. And I can only assume most women would rather their man be a "rock" in hard times and not so easily swayed by whichever way the "popular" sentiment is leaning. These are the "weak men who create hard times", and it might take some of those hard times before these guys really reevaluate their priorities. That said, it's not always as deep as that some guys just legitimately have a thing for "baddie" type girls, and I believe there is room for many different "niches" within the dating market. But it's the indiscriminate pandering to social trends that concerns me.
I have never in my life wanted a toxic girl. Every guy who wants that annoying bullshit is braindead. That type of behavior is not cute nor fun. I want someone who won't stress me out and make me feel like shit. Unfortunately modern society rewards being problematic so people act accordingly. It also doesn't help that people who act this way are more prone to having sex alot quicker than others. It's all one big game to everyone out here and the ones who want something serious get left in the dust. Also you think this is bad for you? Alot of ya'll don't even bother giving a guy a chance if he's not a manipulative douche who is on a certain looks/height level. I don't want to here any of ya'll's complaints. Choose the men who don't like toxic girls. It shouldn't matter how unattractive they are to you. It's all about personality right 🙄?
Apps don’t work for everyone (including me). As a demisexual person who doesn’t like hookup culture and ONS, I hated the shallowness out there. But I started dating my current partner (we met thru mutual friends) and she made me feel really loved. There are people like you out there who are looking for you. Please keep your chin up.
Is this online dating? I feel like it's a breeding ground for narcissistic people to get their fix to be honest. In all my experiences from meeting someone, they ended up not being good people. I think that people who are well-adjusted don't need apps because they meet other decent people in real life. There are ones that last though. I know a few long-term couples that met through apps.
Yeah I know a couple of people that have gotten married off of dating apps and that's honestly very surprising. And you're right, a lot of people with issues turn to dating apps and they find a lot of like-minded people there. I'm looking forward to more in-person connections.
Probably not going to date now that I’m in my mid 50s. I was married, engaged twice and had a kid who isn’t a kid anymore. Even though I’m alone, I’m trying to do the work on myself that I always wanted to do (therapist, physical, etc) and that is taking up my entire time in the day. Bringing another in for that wouldn’t be fair. After all, I’m doing it for myself, not for anyone else. I’m pretty much done at this point.
Society is infected with Wetiko. So, it is not surprising that the dating apps are also infected with a mind virus. I agree, that this sucks. Society probably has to collapse and go through a dark ages and eventually an "Enlightenment" before dating is ever fixed. Is there some way we could kind of get by in the meantime? I have actually never tried a dating app. If I do, I would want to talk to one person at a time. How does one know when to give up talking to the first person and move on to talking a second? I have been a catalyst in other people's love, but I do not know how to find it myself. For example, I once said to my INFJ best friend: "Hey, that's your future wife! Go ask her out!"; he listened to my advice, and they have now been happily married for almost seven years.
You know when it's time to stop talking to the first person when they randomly stop responding to you 😂 Seriously, you can send them the most thought-out response and they just don't respond because they are most likely meeting with someone else. Then when that doesn't work, they come back and say "sorry I disappeared". It's a fun time lmaoo. You almost have to talk many people at once, just to see which one actually materializes into a real-life date. It's sad.
Mostly replying to Curious Nymph (though an insights from any INFP, INTP, INFJ, ENFP, or ISFP would be appreciated): Based on the “randomly stop responding” criteria, it sounds like it is time for me to move on from my current crush. I introduced myself with a story, posted a selfie, engaged in fun, friendly conversation, shared a song she loved, poured a latte with a banded heart, hand wrote a note and placed it beside the latte, and shared the picture of the heart latte with the note. Then things went quiet on her end though she did say she was going to be very busy beforehand. I think the pause/break was forced by her schedule. I am guessing she also lost interest though after the forced pause/break. I may have made a mistake when I continued to share music and write more. I even apologized for writing so much, which was sincere in the moment, but then wrote again the next day. Some of what I wrote was may have been unnecessary, demonstrating that I was clingy, but I think some people would like the attention. During her silent period, I began learning one of the languages she knows - some basic Japanese; I have a 13 day duo lingo streak. Next, I did wrote the beginning of a short story. She came back to make a comment and then has been silent again since. To Master Goose: So, other guys rarely put in the effort that I put in (see above paragraph)? What about male INFPs? Have you ever conversed with male INFPs? Maybe there just aren’t enough INFP men in the world.
I may need some more context as to how you know this person - are they a friend you've known or someone you just met? Is this all virtual communication, have you met in person? I would say definitely don't wait around and move on. Those actions are sweet, but it may come across as a lot for someone. Especially if this is someone you do not know very well, but yea I would need context of your relationship. If it's not being reciprocated, I wouldn't continue sending her anything. You shouldn't have to beg for someone's attention, you have done enough to show your interest and she is giving minimal responses. You don't want this turning into an anxious/avoidant attachment type of relationship.
The context is all virtual (met here on the INFP sub), which is not a way I have met people before; so I feel like a fish out of water even more than usual. Everything you have written makes sense, and I had some of the same thoughts but didn’t want to admit that they probably correspond to reality. I think I am ready now. Thank you for your assistance. Much appreciated!
I'm not completely dismissing what you're saying, but toxic people and cheaters aren't new to the dating scene. as women, what we've specifically gained in this climate is absolutely a blessing, especially compared to what our mothers and grandmothers had. most of us now have something that older generations either didn't have at all or had much less of, options. there are countless options available today. finding the ideal partner isn't necessarily easier, as many of us have higher standards now, which is a good thing. but for example, if it takes me two weeks or a month to find a date with someone I find attractive, who shares my hobbies, loves cats, and has similar political beliefs, my mother probably had to search for years. my grandmother wouldn't have even dreamed of something like this. to be more precise, she didn't have much choice when it came to marriage itself, let alone finding a date with whom she had a lot in common. so, in general, I like what we have now. do I like everything happening with the culture? probably not, but I appreciate the idea of having options. also, may I also suggest not spending even a second thinking about, let alone talking to, the "no good women left" type of guys? there are millions of others who aren't loser crybabies looking for a mommy/therapist on a dating app.
it is rough but not hopeless. there are still plenty of good people out there.
Wait to turn 40, singles moms of 6+ amazing kids with STDs and delusional expectations
I’ve been on 5 dates with this amazing ENFP woman, I shared my vulnerability with her, and we’re both taking it slowly, though I like her a lot and she likes me, we agreed. I absolutely abhors dating apps and explored that scene, women on there are too picky and choosy, that’s why I met her the rough a mutual friend I’ve known for a long time. She thinks I’m interesting, handsome, cool, a bit feminine, which isn’t a bad thing. She’s met my folks, painted with me, and I will continue to pursue her. As one says “slow and steady wins the race” 😊
Gave up! Focus on what you can control. I’m tired of wondering what’s going on in her head. I’d rather just grind and hit partner
It's challenging for sure and I used to feel the same way... **Then I started taking it as a challenge to grow as a person!** Remember that everything you feel now is in your control for how you use it to influence your next steps in life. I realized that I NEEDED to take accountability for my own negative emotions and make myself feel better in those moments where it was going bad. Once I started adopting that mindset - dating became fun and less depressing. Everything that I do feels good now and not nerve wracking. Even if it doesn't work out - I'm learning and growing constantly from those mistakes and pitfalls. Those failed attempts don't make me weaker - *but actually stronger!* I encourage anyone to take responsibility for your own emotional state and use these lessons to be empowered instead of defeated!
Oh, wow, it's like you've just illustrated your own version of the Strength Tarot card with these words. I have saved this comment. Thank you Motion Ocean!
You got this Turbulent-Beauty! Keep learning and growing in life. :-)
Thank you, again, Ocean Motion.
I'm ready to shove a gun in my mouth