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The other girl was loud and confident, regurgitating all the propaganda she could until the guy just easily swatted it away left and right. By the end she was deflated. Probably still delusional, but she had no more ammunition.
They aren't allowed to not be nationalists. If they actually criticized the government they go to jail. My wife is from Russia. Her father still lives there. The family who live in Russia all say whqt these girls say.
And they are probably not even oppressed, and have much more access to different sources. Same here, so I try not to shit on normal people, that might not know better, or often can't show they know better. Once I met some nice Russians in Moscow, like 20 years ago, and even then they were very careful speaking about politics. They were pro West, some from lgbt community and even those had very different ideas from what is normal to us. Can't even imagine how is now there...
It's the same with any country with a government full of monsters. Fuck Putin, but you can't blame the civilian population much considering they're brainwashed by state-owned media.
I really enjoyed this.
Interesting conversation on substantial matters by some kids; good to get an insight into their mindset and the way they communicate.
It’s so interesting that kids from 2 separate warring countries are just chatting with each other casually from their own homes.
The modern world is wild.
Imagine if this was a possibility back in ww2. People from Germany talking to random people in Russia while they played video games together. I wonder how those conversations would’ve gone.
They’re chatting, while this is happening:
https://texty.org.ua/articles/112816/russian-death-camp-three-stories-ukrainian-prisoners/
Fragment from the article:
>In early January 2024, I received information from another cellmate of my husband. This time, I heard that my husband was being tortured. On January 24, a Kyiv investigator called me and said there was an exchange of bodies in December 2023, and they had my husband's body.
>I couldn’t believe it; I said they had made a mistake and hung up. Later, the investigator sent me a photo of the tattoo, and I recognized him by the tattoo.
>It was the worst day of my life.
>When we arrived in Kyiv for body identification on January 25, I was shocked by what I saw. It was a very horrifying sight. What struck me the most was how emaciated the body was. The pathologist said that he weighed less than fifty kilograms.
>Sasha was tall—180 cm. Before captivity, he weighed 110 kg and was physically healthy. What was left of him were just bones and skin. His head was all bruised, his nose was crooked, and his index fingers had no nails. Whether they were ripped out or smashed, I do not know. There were signs of torture all over his body.
>His cellmates later told me how they were tortured. Every day, they were beaten. They were beaten either in the cell or taken outside. They beat them very brutally, especially my husband. Because he was tall, stately, from western Ukraine, and didn’t want to speak Russian.
Imagine the feeling of trying to do normal everyday things, trying to sleep, trying to rise your kids, trying to I don't know, cook or whatever while you know for a certain your significant other is being tortured at that very same moment. Fuck. That's throat clenching.
I don’t think I’d make it, honestly. The thought of my partner being tortured…it’d be too much. I might be able to stick it out if we had kids or on the hope of her eventual return, but to go through what this person went through and keep on going is unimaginable to me.
People like that become the kind of enemy you don't want to make. That woman has nothing to lose but she's full of burning rage. That can be a very strong motivator to fight back. For some, it becomes the meaning of their life - if not to get revenge but to spare others the same fate.
>Those conversations would go nowhere exactly like this one, and they have an advantage of speaking fluently in the same language in this scenario.
The first step to being effective in a debate like this is to accept that the other party IS NEVER going to admit to being beaten. Just because the clip didn't end with the girls admitting their leader is a murderous tyrant doesn't mean the conversation "went nowhere". By this standard, any conversation which doesn't end in one side admitting the other is right is pointless - a dangerous and defeatist attitude.
These girls got taken to task and had their ingrained beliefs challenged, in their own language, by a very effective, calm, and rational opponent. By not being hostile and by not engaging in personal attacks, and always returning to the substantive matters at hand, he kept them engaged and brought home his main points again and again - this war is happening because Russia invaded a sovereign territory.
They may not ever admit to each other or to themselves, but their justifications for the war fell flat. All they had was nebulous accusations of "Nazification". He asked them to define "Nazism" and they couldn't. He asked them to define "NATO" and they couldn't.
He was as successful as anyone could possibly be in a debate between people from warring countries. And if he does this with every Russian he chats with, he will have had an impact. They might not admit it, but they will know on some level their government is doing an atrocious thing that they failed miserably to justify.
Russians must know they are living in a fascist state. They don't dare protest. They feel everyone is spying on them because they are! They feel they have to toe the party line! Russians aren't idiots, just immoral.
Education here right now is filled with propaganda. Also overall country education lvl went down.
Tv is not filled, its only propaganda, its started in late 2013 iirc and only grew stronger and bigger. Ppl were brainwashed for 8+ years about how bad Ukraine went. Thats why middle aged population are supporting Putin and his decisions.
Corruption lvl is high as always.
These main three factors are stopping any possible protests from the very start. And dont forget what happened to Navalny, his name was on top of opposition, but there a lot of names who didnt went big outside of our country but now sitting in jail just because they were protesting against Putin's regime.
Its really a lot more complex and hard to explain situation to foreigners.
Im 36, my wife is 30 and all we want is to make a bright future to our kids so they wont need to ever come back and live here. I like places, spots, communications, QoL things in Moscow as i live here, but i hate almost everything about ppl and stuff that happens in politics here. But i would never open my mouth about it outside of my friends cirle. Because im scared to do it.
I agree, but there's still maybe a sliver of doubt seeded. They might fight hard in the moment, but if they have an ounce of intelligence or empathy, they may go away and reflect later upon the humanity and facts that were shared. This seemed like a stalemate, but it's what happens after that might be meaningful. We need more discourse like this.
This conversation could have easily devolved and resorted to petty name-calling by either side, but it didn't and I appreciate that.
They were exchanging perspectives. I happen to agree far more with the Ukrainian perspective, but like this, there was a far better likelihood that each side sees the other and gets a little better understanding, even if it's the Ukrainian seeing how the Russian girls were basing their perspective on misinformation and propaganda.
All they had was the nazism angle. super easy to debunk or even infer against by anyone who knows any history, of which they were demonstrated to know none. Especially Yeltsin in 93 and the nuke deal in 94.
No facts offered from their side at all, least of all supporting ones.
I remember being this age and being outnumbered in an argument. He did really well, and the girls will spend time reflecting but it won't go anywhere after that. They're not bad girls, in fact they're really high quality products of a system that produces citizens like this (strong and sincere support for their side, dismissed counters, parroted their propaganda well).
This thing may end when Russia runs out of conscripts, it won't be from a turn in domestic sentiment.
I knew a Russian girl. She'd lived in Western Europe for years, so she was outside the Russian propaganda bubble. But it was fascinating to listen to the shit she came out with. I asked her what they all though of Putin and she told me "Oh, we love Putin. He's for the people. He came in and took on the Russian Mafia and saved us all." I then asked her "what do you think about him poisoning people and killing people in other countries?" she burst into tears and shouted at me "IT'S NOT TRUE HE NEVER DID THAT WHY WOULD YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT?"
I had a Russian friend and, having a mutual interest in classical music, I told him I'd love to go to Russia to watch some ballet and some other cultural interests and he said "WHY? WHY DID YOU DO THAT?! DON'T EVER GO THERE!"
This was over 10 years ago and he still lives in the UK and is super proud to live here and be part of our country
One of the best clips I’ve ever seen on Reddit. The young man was excellent. The poor girls have limited access to information and will probably never accept that Russia is at fault. Shows you the power of propaganda.
Here in the US it’s hard to tell but at least 20% (maybe more) Americans now have a positive view of Russias actions. I see people wearing shirts that say “I’d rather elect Putin than a Democrat.” Make no mistake, these Americans are traitors.
>The poor girls have limited access to information and will probably never accept that Russia is at fault.
They may never admit Russia was at fault, but that should never be the goal of a debate like this in the first place. Getting them to capitulate isn't the bar for success - it's to keep your opponents engaged while you return again and again to your points. He never attacked them personally, didn't get emotional, and challenged them to define for themselves the justifications given for the war. They regurgitated some Kremlin talking points, but they didn't sound very convinced when offering "Nazification" and "NATO" as reasons to invade. When you ask your opponent to articulate these concepts, they're forced to translate them from an ambiguous implanted concept into concrete terms, and whether they admit it or not, they know they failed.
He circled back again and again to reality, refusing to engage in "what ifs" or "maybes" and stated the obvious - your country invaded mine.
I've heard that a good strategy when having a heated argument or debate is to imagine that you're being filmed. If you imagine an audience is going to watch the fight your having with your partner or spouse, you're a lot less inclined to hurl nasty insults. The fact that he's recording these conversations probably helps him to remember that the goal isn't to win these girls over, but to convince the viewers that he made better points.
Just shows post soviet countries had very contrasting 90s.
Here the law basically didn’t function during transition to market economy, hence the logic. It is not without reason russia is called a mafia state, this is precisely this 90s thug mentality of russian elites that everything is up for grabs if it doesn’t have mob protection.
They’re talking about the 90s in Russia, a period of economic ruin in the former Soviet republics during which people survived by any means necessary, including taking advantage and stealing from others. Many of today’s influential people including businessmen and politicians started out as gangsters in the 80s and 90s around the collapse of the Soviet Union. Many people are still stuck in that 90s mentality of taking what you want just because you can.
Wait until someone tells them about the Domino gas field in the Black Sea.
Or did they think Uncle Vladimir wanted Crimea for sentimental reasons? Same reason they want all ten Black Sea coast- the claim the field, otherwise the EU will have energy independence from Russia.
Yeah, I have (used to work in the sector, specifically in exploration). It’s a big one- 19 billion cubic meters total potential. Domino, as part of the Neptun Deep project is around. 100 BCM. Both are strategically vital to the EU, both are strategically vital for Russia to control to keep beignets nuclear armed, mafia run, gas station they’ve been for quite some time. The maritime one comes with the added complexity of coast line deciding claim size given the proximity to shore.
Ukraine is a wealthy country, but for Russia stealing from it. So is Romania, and Russia fucking hates that idea.
That was very interesting.
It's weird that the one girl is basically advocating taking Ukraine because they're small and weak. "You don't have anything. You don't have your own gas."
So, your argument is that Russia should be allowed to take any weaker countries?
No, that’s not there argument. Or at least it is a very simplified version of their argument.
I’ll preface this by saying I don’t agree with this obviously, but the argument they’re making is that to be a “country” you need to have complete self sufficiency.
Russia fears not being self sufficient because it knows it can easily be cut off from the rest of the world. So it has to consolidate all of the countries with close cultural and ethnic ties, like Ukraine, in order to have a state that can stand on an island from the west.
Russian propaganda says that the US and NATO will turn their backs on former Soviet states once their interest dies down. Once it’s not convenient. So the Russian idea is to capture as much territory as possible in order to gain as much power as possible. They pitch this as a benefit for the Ukrainians; that they’ll be part of a bigger economy.
Russian propaganda also says that a war with the west is incoming soon; and it will result from western aggression, so the Russians believe that in order to defend themselves that need to consolidate back into the Soviet Union.
Ukraine has a ton of farmland and other resources that Russia would benefit from, and they have ethnic Russians, so that’s why Russia has their sights on them. But they’ve also invaded Georgia and many other former Soviet states are not out of the question.
Nice explanation.
Ironically it sounds an awful lot like Hitlers war goals - unite the German speaking people/nations and then secure enough additional territory and resources to be a powerful self standing empire. Plus the extra sprinkle of might makes right justifications around sovereignty too. And mistrear minorities along the way.
Did I miss anything from the parallels to Russia? And they accuse Ukraine of fascism and nazism??
Oh absolutely. It’s the goal of several empires and powers throughout history. That’s why the whole concept of the “balance of power” was so important. Countries would get insecure if they were weaker than their neighbors and they had something that their neighbor wanted.
Although unlike Hitler, the idea of many of these empires was that once the weaker nation was incorporated in, the citizens would be on equal standing with the native nation. The only tradeoff was that during war men could be conscripted and the core nation now had access to all their economic systems and resources. Aside from the militaristic humiliation, everyone was “theoretically” better off.
Basically the goal was globalization by force.
In modern times thankfully we have a better system of treaties and agreements. The USA has had a few very successful attempts at it. Germany, South Korea, and Japan are America’s best allies because rather than do the usual thing of plundering or colonizing defeated nations, they set up a military agreement with them and helped them rebuild. If a nation is healthy and happy it will be far less likely to start a war.
Of course the US didn’t do this out of kindness but rather strategy and forward thinking, and the US wasn’t the first one to try this but the most successful. Plus they had the privilege of doing so as the US is very well defend from invaders and very resourceful on its own.
That’s the Moscovite mentality in a nutshell. They will take something just because they can. Most of the time they don’t need it or didn’t even want it, but because it belongs to someone weaker, they have the urge to take it for themselves to prove dominance or something.
All three ages combined are probably less than the age of either candidate
Edit: Trump is 78. They all can be 26 years old and it would be the exact same amount
"NATO is a defensive military organization."
"Defense against what?"
"Well, for example, like Russia invading Ukraine."
"And there it is!"
Lady, that's really not the "Gotcha!" you clearly think it is lol
NATO was literally formed initially for the explicit purpose of protecting European countries from potential German and/or Russian aggression. It’s hilarious to hear Russians talk about it as if simply joining a defensive alliance is an act of aggression.
Thanks, a lot of us do find a lot of similarities with the Baltic triplets. But you're lucky to have a lot of NATO neighbors and now that Russia had been proven a paper tiger with this war, yet our tiger is still theoretically real
Don’t worry, almost everyone I speak to with a conscious in the US cares about Taiwan. I’ll always support you guys and do my best to spread the sentiment. We’d fight a paper tiger or a real tiger for ya 🖤
I like to ask the Chinese keyboard warriors why the Taiwanese people aren’t allowed to choose the destiny of the place they live in. They typically stumble hard on that one and/or have to resort to ultra-BS argument along the line of “we are 1.4bn Chinese so we are the majority who can decide”. “
I hope the ukraine situation dissolves in a way that leaces China unwilling to risk the same and attack Taiwan! I love your country from what I can hear, and I wish you a bright and peaceful future. And not only because the list of truly working democracies worldwide is dangerously short.
Seems to me you see the effect of propaganda in action. The women use some buzz words and phrases they probably picked up in the Russian media, but when you ask why they think that way, there is no answer.
I hope by talking through Ukrainians they start to see the media they consume in the motherland is propaganda. And start thinking for themselves.
Can confirm. I'll be talking with my parents and then my mom will launch into some tirade filled with buzzwords that she probably heard from Gutfeld on Fox. Looking back, I now see the insidious way my mom and even my more moderate father who wasn't a big fan of Fox News have gotten sucked into that echo chamber over the past 25 years...
I know Roger Ailes is roasting in hell and I hope the Murdochs follow him there swiftly.
Honestly I think the blond girl started coming around, if not entirely; she was at least willing to start looking things up and questioning things she said before, like her attack on nato but not understanding why she hates nato.
I’m honestly now worried for these young women being arrested by Putins thugs.
Yeah, if this video gets too popular those two girls could actually be in danger.
Well, maybe. I don't know this for a fact. But if I was a totalitarian state, I wouldn't take kindly to large public examples of my citizens being made to question propaganda
As a Pole, I can guarantee that if our army ever enters Ukraine, it will be to kill russian occupiers. There is, of course, a vocal minority of ukrainophobes in our country, but it's very small and the vast majority of Poles, as well as our government, supports Ukraine and despises Russia.
And the fun thing is: even in this minority that has some issues with Ukrainie, most hate Russia even more.
The rest are just tankies on rubel payroll.
The only thing they need to learn is : if Russia stops fighting there is no war anymore, if Ukraine stops fighting there is no Ukraine anymore. As simple as that
As a Pole I really appreciate that we're, Poland, the top arch-enemy of Russia after global military powerhouse USA.
Damn, we gotta start paying even more than 4% of our GDP on defense than.
Gonna meet the expectations somehow!
We need more talks like this. It’s a shame that they so easily get heated though, and that people interrupt each other so easily. But I’d probably be equally infuriated if I was the guy…
communication is the hardest
He has couple of hundreds videos with dialogues like this on his youtube chanel. And I literally watched every one of them. If only his videos was popping in western waters more often.
I loved it when he clearly stated that invaders are evil, just like Germany, Japan, and Italy were in WWII, and I am Italian.
This man just paid honour to the sacrifice of millions of people. Well done Ukraine, you've been raising thinking souls.
Slava Ukraini!
He didn't mention (and it wouldn't have helped his argument), that in WWII, the Soviet Union was initially an invader as well. Germany and the Soviet Union agreed to attack Poland from both sides and split in between them, until Germany broke the agreement and back-stabbed the Soviet Union, turning them from aggressor to victim.
Russians will looooove to tell you that Romanians and Finns were Nazi collaborators. But they'll never say why, which is that literally the only way those countries could continue to exist was if they allied with the one country that was fighting against the Soviets that were trying to erase them.
I’m also boggled by the little or no use of the argument of the Ribbentrop-Molotov treaty. I believe that there is a good part of academics that don’t simply consider it a share of the spoils but also an aspect of the ~~guardianship~~ siding of the Soviets against the Axis. That said, he did a perfect job without even mentioning that (btw, I agree with you, it was a heinous and utter sharing of the spoils by Stalin and Hitler, as demonstrated by the subsequent years in Czechoslovakia and Hungary).
He already had multiple topics to cover, with girls trying to change topic whenever they couldn't counter his arguments. Digging too deep into WW2 history would have only distracted from talking about todays issues in Ukraine.
yup. there's a word for countries that work together to achieve a common and mutually beneficial goal like invading and partitioning a country in between them, the word is just on the tip of my tongue, ah what is it...
Kind of shut her up when he brought up all the supplies sent in WW2. Poor girl is just regurgitating the propaganda she is told. Maybe this exchange will have her question the truth and do some research.
Also when he pressed her to tell him why NATO was bad, just complete blank, the propaganda script never got that far, never justified why it was bad just told then "NATO big bad, Ukraine Nazis"
Amazing when Russian Vatniks and western Tankies learn that Russian victory against Nazi Germany would not have happened were it not for USA’s Lend-Lease.
This is exactly what the world needs more of. Regular people communicating. I hope these girls realize their country is culpable for the war, even in some small way
I doubt they learned anything. They didn't even understand the Russian propaganda they are trying (and failing) to yap back at him. Especially the one on the right is so damn dumb, all she has to show is her unjustified self-confidence. "Oh we attacked you necause you want to join the Nato" - "Ok and what is the Nato?" - crickets...
People's pride will keep them from directly admitting they're wrong but the women were quite silent at the end, which means he may have gotten through to them in some small way.
To add to this, many people on social media struggle to see another person they are talking to. On a video call like this, it is easier to understand another person and have empathy.
I don't think these people are straight up dumb.
Propaganda is a very complex way of manipulating and I think nearly everyone is being manipulated by it. Elections, Middle Eastern conflict, the war between Russia and Ukraine and many other forms of politics are all things that benefit heavily from manipulating people into supporting you or joining your cause and with social media we have a perfect platform to execute said propaganda. The time where people believe what they are taught in schools (or at home) is over and external views (also from bad actors) are becoming more and more prevalent in what people think and support.
We, as humanity, really need to find a way for ourselves to filter out all the bullshit and stop believing everything we read and see on social media. Too many people do this and it's really affecting our political landscapes and thus increase the possibility for wars
I also think they have to be careful because they could be arrested. I saw an article saying a 15 year old was sentenced to 5 years of prison for speaking out against the war
I would not say that. They are utterly uneducated on the history of their own country, they didn't even know the Russian alternative versions of history, they knew absolutely no version of history.
So this short interaction definitely turned some of their gears. But this takes time. And while it may not convince them Russia is the aggressor, it might tune down their brainless patriotism.
I think the main issue is, people like this cannot afford to change such an important opinion/worldview as this, because it would completely shatter their mind. Like, to realize, ADMIT, you've been wrong, lied to, been stupid, EVIL, your whole life? I don't think many people would be able to handle this.
It is hard. I was 19 when the Iraq war started and was convinced it was the right thing. It took time, but I came to realize that it was an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation that didn’t attack us. I’d imagine it’s even harder in a country in which the government controls all the media.
I’m actually surprised that those kids are able to use Omegle (or whatever it’s called now) to chat with someone outside of the country
>Like, to realize, ADMIT, you've been wrong, lied to, been stupid, EVIL, your whole life? I don't think many people would be able to handle this.
It's the same thing with religion too. Nobody has all the answers but you cannot reason or logic with someone who's been devoting their entire life into a particular faith and belief. It would break them. They simply can't handle it.
Its hillarious. Whenever they cant explain a circumstance or dont know, how to answer, they try to change the topic and quickly get stuck in their mental void of that topic again and then they try to change the topic again and so on. And theyre still very confident to be right. This is, what i call totally delusional. Russian brainwashing must be quite effective tbh as it just took 1 generation to deliver results like that.
the thing that you miss is that this is not the first generation. i bet that their parents are the same because it's been indoctrinated into the people for decades. it just had a certain revival but it never really stopped. i dont want to say that all russians believe in that but there is still a substantial amount of "sheep" if you so will. they were grown and taught not to trust any western media/governement and only the truth is spoken in the russian media.
Fundamentally these people don't hate each other or are bad, they've just been told that each others countries are bad and are talking it through.
Its pretty clear those girls have drank the kool aid, they seem to believe its justified but you can see the cracks in their arguments. These sorts of conversations are really important.
It’s not that they’ve drunkin the kool aid, they just get one side of the story from their government. They’re also very young, so they haven’t been fully exposed to the way the world works. The fact that they’re even willing to have this discussion with someone from Ukraine is a good first step
Me and My brother spoke to around 200 russians on chat roulette. Around 3 sorta changed mind, around a dozen were anti war (who still live in russia). Rest goes + - like with these girls. And those talks were closer to start of the war.
Now Roskomnadzor closed the internet even more, including every single non-kremlin media and platforms (except youtube, but even that recommends z-shit to them)
They're too far gone. They even teach z-shit in kindergardens and schools. Some anti-putin russians, that still didn't leave, are shocked to find their children supporting war, because that's now how schools work, and the whole society
They're full blown fascists now
Most terrifying is almost no one in the west grasps the severity of situation. They mass murder us, ukrainians, daily, get mass murdered daily themselves and still go to Ukraine. Future is looking very bleak, friends. There is no plan in the west, except freeze the conflict to give this version of russia a break to regroup
Only watched the first minutes so far but I already like how having the "cooler" army justifies invading another country lol.
edit: Watched the rest, complete brain rot.
Incredible how the Russian girls were manipulated to think this war is good and justifiable. Putin’s propaganda is doing a good job in Russia. The Ukrainian guy nailed with the arguments!
I didn't expect to watch so much of this. Perfect illustration of how exceedingly difficult arguing with someone uninformed can be. Good on this guy for keeping composure.
The level of propaganda on these people is pretty sad tbh.
The short of it is: Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia is on Ukrainian soil, and to his point, usually the side that attacks is in the wrong.
They didn't stand a chance lol. Glad is was pretty civil and at the end of the day, they are just regular ass people who deep down, ultimately want the same thing, to live in peace
That russian propaganda machine is powerful though
Entire russian propoganda boils down to 2014 maidan when they kicked out russian puppet president. This makes russia mad and they want to reinstate their puppet government.
When that fails its "Ukraine isnt a real country, its not self sufficient, therefore we can invade it to exploit it"
When that fails its generic nazis eating orthodox babies bs.
Its just an infinite loop of fallacies. Russians can never acknowledge that a sovereign country can be a sovereign country.
It's just hilarious how they thought flexing having more gas/oil is something they achieved, and not just inherit due to geography. What will ruZzia be in the future when there are more efficient ways to create electricity then currently the nuclear fission, and their main export becomes obsolete? I'm guessing something like NK but on a larger scale.
nah, lets be honest, Russia will always be a very resource rich country. And gas for example will still be useful for chemical production, even if we shift completely to renewables.
Tbf to the russian girls. The guy obviously went into chat roulette looking for a conversation like this and was prepared. The girls had very little knowledge on the conflict and gave him no challenge.
As a Czech i hate these stupid fucks with every fibre of my body..... "nobody knows the truth" & "if only there were less nazis" and other bulshit they repeat like demented parrots
My country didnt have nazis or didn't want to join nato and they still invaded Prague in 1968
They are scum....thats it
"because you don't have your own support. Because you are not a self sufficient country"
I translated that as "You don't have sufficient means to stave off our invasion, our murderers, our rapists."
its crazy to think just how indoctrinated the people from russia, china, and north korea are. To westerners putin has lost his mind but to the russians theyre mostly fighting cause they believe putin and his military "operations"
At 6:50 is the crutch of the issue. The girls are brainwashed from a young age to believe they have a right to the baltics she literally lists the ones that will be next.
You know who also wanted to recreate a European empire of his predecessors?
Yea prideful idiots are a different beast to handle, YOU can't tell them anything, because they think of you as lesser, how can a lesser person teach them anything? So instead you do all the critical thinking for them and let them put the pieces together themselves.
Listening to the girls... when I was a teen in college, I heard conversations similar with US kids. Uninformed, propagandized, and taught not to have any media literacy or thoughts about reality.
I really hope this conversation sparked some questions in their heads. They don't seem super set in what they're saying.
If all the youth in Russia are this messed up and misinformed, as maybe everyone expected, the war might last longer than we thought.. You see how proud they are, yet they dont know shit about fuck.
Exactly this we this is what Putin and his government are terrified of:
* Open communication where a discussion takes place. Because it is when this happens that it is so clear that Putin is an idiot who attacks a country for absolutely no reason, that Putin kills his own soldiers only because of a sick idea, that Putin kills innocent people both in Ukraine and his own citizens.
##It always has and forever will be 100% proof that you know you are wrong when you ban criticism and communication against your own opinions.
Putin is 100% aware that he is doing absolutely wrong in his war. But he completely ignores it as he is a disturbed and sick idiot.
Russia did it cause it could, simple. Wrapping it with NATO and crimes against Russian speaking populace in Ukraine was just a pretext.
However, untangling this mess wouldn't be a straight and simple solution, IMHO.
The Russian girls are saying that Russia doesn't execute their prisoners but Ukraine does? How is the truth so hidden and controlled in Russia? They don't know even half of the torture going on unfortunately.
Its sad to see normal citizens have such conversations. Talking about people killing each other and how its justified or not, war is such a cruel thing. The russian girls growing up thinking its a normal thing to crush the weak and claim everything they own, so sad.
It’s fascinating how they can make claims about all the wrongdoings NATO and Ukraine have committed, yet they don’t even know what NATO is. It’s just sad. A country intentionally making its own population stupid and uneducated to the point of not being to achieve any growth just for the sake of one rich guy's power. Putin is sitting on a throne, while most of his country pays for it.
No only will probably see this, but I found this to be incredibly sad. They are both just repeating propaganda to each other, which is naturally a mixed bag of half-truths and twisted logic:
"It is good to invade Ukraine because you are weak and poor." Are you sure??
"The US supports us so we must be the good guys!" Friend, I encourage you to more closely examine our historical track record! The US is hardly a consistent opponent of fascism. Much to the contrary.
"There's no Nazis in Ukraine!" Of course there is and in their military too! More than one Ukrainian unit emblem proudly features historically fascist symbolism including that from WWII Nazi-SS collaborator units. The much vaunted Azov doesn't exactly try to hide their history or beliefs. Does that mean Putin's De-Nazification talk is correct? Nope. There's fascists on the Russian side too!
"You execute our prisoners!" "No, you execute our prisoners!" Both armies are committing war crimes. The Ukrainian is right, it's on video, including summary executions committed by his side. Does he not know or just excuse it as tit-for-tat? I don't know, I had to turn it off.
I don't find this very interesting. It would be interesting to me if he had taken the fig leaf offered by the woman at the beginning and they had made a real human connection transcending the conflict instead of perpetuating it in their own lives by lobbing one-sided arguments at each other. This reflection of how two governments manipulate their people to engender hatred of their neighbor, turning a bind eye to the crimes of their own state, and support a senseless war is just depressing.
She has the dumb self-confidence only a pretty blonde can have.*
I'd have liked to hear more from the one on the left.
It is very interesting to see the effects of decades of lies & propaganda first hand.
The guy has solid arguments but is a bit too loud.
Still - they're trying to have a talk which in itself is good.
---
"You killed people (in Ukraine) because they speak Russian!" - "And what language am I speaking to you right now?"
🤣
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I feel for the guy most when he just sighs. He does that a lot.
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\* I am not really being misogynystic here, or sexist. First of all I watched the video before I commented, I'm talking about what she actually said and how. I am refering to people who have mainstream good looks and grow up in a society that tends to reward them for that, and not their intelligence. Nothing to do with gender. Note my phrasing: I'm not even saying she is dumb - how could I, I don't know her. But she doesn't seem to think much before answering and often seems to think that a monosyllabic phrase combined with a toss of the head and a vacant smile is just as valid as an actual counter-argument.
And I'm definitely not saying that all women with certain physical attributes are dumb. Which is what some people seem to have heard here. Check your reading comprehension.
he's really good whenever they try to change the subject to "yeah, but what about that other thing?".
I've talked to enough brainwashed people toknow how their arguments work. it always boils down to"yeah but my book says I'm right and you're wrong. and so says my mom"
I wanted to hear more from the girl on the left as well, but neither her friend, nor the guy gave her the word.
She had different point of view none the others were about to agree with.
It’s a shame, let’s hope they came up with a second video in the near future.
She echoing the sentiment of every western tankie as well.
Russia attacked because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, to protect them from being attacked by Russia.
Every one of their arguments is like: we wouldn't have to rape you if you'd just consent to be fucked. Resisting will only make it worse for you, because it's gonna happen no matter what because it's my right.
No matter how they formulate it, it basically comes down to the fact that they don't think Ukraine should exist independently.
All the other crap is just the same as the American civil war being about state's rights.
I think he was getting through a bit, but it shows how shallow the propaganda goes .. Nazism was developing was the reason for the invasion, and killing Russian speakers, I wish he'd dug deeper ok those to dispel the lies they have been fed more.
Not how I would have phrased it but she clearly has almost no grasp of history but is extremely confident at the same time. It is 100%, undistilled dumb self confidence
The Russian girls don't see the flaw in the voluntarily biased message they are fed with daily: if there were rampant Neo-nazis observed for so long acting against Russians of Donbass and Donetsk, then how would their number have grown to the point of becoming the largest ethnic minority in Ukraine over time?
Furthermore:
>According to the Institute of Sociology surveys conducted yearly **between 1995 and 2005, the percentage of respondents who have encountered cases of ethnic-based discrimination against Russians during the preceding year has consistently been low (mostly in single digits)**, with no noticeable difference when compared with the number of incidents directed against any other nation, including the Ukrainians and the Jews. According to the 2007 Comparative Survey of Ukraine and Europe only 0.1% of Ukrainian residents consider themselves belonging to a group which is discriminated by nationality. **However, by April 2017 in a public opinion survey conducted by Rating Group Ukraine, 57 percent of Ukrainians polled expressed a very cold or cold attitude toward Russia, as opposed to only 17 percent who expressed a very warm or warm attitude.** - Russians in Ukraine, Wikipedia.
Make us wonder what could have happened. Oh wait...
“Did the Americans only send aid to the Soviet Union?”
No, that’s the point. American aid has nothing to do with who “doesn’t have an army.” Girl on the right is braindead.
I know idiots like these exist but I always want to pretending they're not, my life already stressed ad fk. My latest family big problem also because they're stupid like this, fk every logic.
Watching this just ruined my mood. I watched it because the man is reasonable, I like listen him talk.
I feel like if the dude didn't start attacking girls directly just because they're Russians, he could have convinced them how brainwashed they are. My belief is that ordinary Russians do not think deeply about the war while being exposed to all types of propaganda on a daily basis. Hence, if he let them know about how horrible the war is for both Russians and Ukrainians, he could have gained two young person in Russia who are against the more. Many in here are full of hatred for Russian people but let's accept that there are many Russians who are against this war or suffered from it and not able to do anything about it due to oppression from the government. As a fellow person living in a semi-oppressive government, I totally understand being against something but also not being able to do anything about it.
I love how biased the comment section is. Its funny, because everyone is talking like the girls are the only ones subjected to propaganda, and that they dont know anything because they are "brainwashed".
The reality is, he chose to debate these russians because they were not interested in politics and therefore only know what the news and their connections say. This is something that will be the case for anyone from any country aslong as they are not interested in politics or history. You could go to the average person in any country and they wouldnt be able to debate anything about this. And at the same time, they would spit out the propaganda that they hear from their respective news or connections.
No country is immune to propaganda, especially not anyone supporting ukraine or russia.
Also i cant fathom how someone can answer "How are you feeling?" with "im good because of all the dead russian soldiers" or whatever like that he said. He clearly came there to debate, he didnt come to listen to what they had to say, he came to make... A sort of propaganda, in of itself, maybe to let out some anger aswell in the process. And to show off his psychopathic side. Anyways, im probably gonna get downvoted for saying all this.
But, sue me, both he and them are brainwashed, the difference is that he came for the purpose of making this video and bringing up this theme. While they came for the purpose of talking and probably not about the war.
Those girls were in way over their heads. Granted I think a lot of people would be because this guy's seems to have more knowledge than the average person on this matter but shit these girls had nothing but propaganda to spew out.
Different topic but that reminded me of debates before european elections in germany. Fascists vs the left. The left tried to explain their points with proof and scources that back them up and the fascist is like "no i don't believe that"
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Girl on the left seemed very civil at the start and as soon as he said he’s from Ukraine the other girl frowns in the background lol
The other girl was loud and confident, regurgitating all the propaganda she could until the guy just easily swatted it away left and right. By the end she was deflated. Probably still delusional, but she had no more ammunition.
They aren't allowed to not be nationalists. If they actually criticized the government they go to jail. My wife is from Russia. Her father still lives there. The family who live in Russia all say whqt these girls say.
Parf of me just wants to say fuck Russia, but then I think about all the brainwashed people in my own country.
And they are probably not even oppressed, and have much more access to different sources. Same here, so I try not to shit on normal people, that might not know better, or often can't show they know better. Once I met some nice Russians in Moscow, like 20 years ago, and even then they were very careful speaking about politics. They were pro West, some from lgbt community and even those had very different ideas from what is normal to us. Can't even imagine how is now there...
It's the same with any country with a government full of monsters. Fuck Putin, but you can't blame the civilian population much considering they're brainwashed by state-owned media.
My brain also exploded when the girl said "Ukraine is at war, not Russia!" Bitch who do you think Ukraine IS AT WAR WITH?
Because she knew an unpleasant conversation was coming
she’s smoking the same shit they kidnapped that basketball player for lmfao
I really enjoyed this. Interesting conversation on substantial matters by some kids; good to get an insight into their mindset and the way they communicate.
It’s so interesting that kids from 2 separate warring countries are just chatting with each other casually from their own homes. The modern world is wild. Imagine if this was a possibility back in ww2. People from Germany talking to random people in Russia while they played video games together. I wonder how those conversations would’ve gone.
They’re chatting, while this is happening: https://texty.org.ua/articles/112816/russian-death-camp-three-stories-ukrainian-prisoners/ Fragment from the article: >In early January 2024, I received information from another cellmate of my husband. This time, I heard that my husband was being tortured. On January 24, a Kyiv investigator called me and said there was an exchange of bodies in December 2023, and they had my husband's body. >I couldn’t believe it; I said they had made a mistake and hung up. Later, the investigator sent me a photo of the tattoo, and I recognized him by the tattoo. >It was the worst day of my life. >When we arrived in Kyiv for body identification on January 25, I was shocked by what I saw. It was a very horrifying sight. What struck me the most was how emaciated the body was. The pathologist said that he weighed less than fifty kilograms. >Sasha was tall—180 cm. Before captivity, he weighed 110 kg and was physically healthy. What was left of him were just bones and skin. His head was all bruised, his nose was crooked, and his index fingers had no nails. Whether they were ripped out or smashed, I do not know. There were signs of torture all over his body. >His cellmates later told me how they were tortured. Every day, they were beaten. They were beaten either in the cell or taken outside. They beat them very brutally, especially my husband. Because he was tall, stately, from western Ukraine, and didn’t want to speak Russian.
Imagine the feeling of trying to do normal everyday things, trying to sleep, trying to rise your kids, trying to I don't know, cook or whatever while you know for a certain your significant other is being tortured at that very same moment. Fuck. That's throat clenching.
I don’t think I’d make it, honestly. The thought of my partner being tortured…it’d be too much. I might be able to stick it out if we had kids or on the hope of her eventual return, but to go through what this person went through and keep on going is unimaginable to me.
People like that become the kind of enemy you don't want to make. That woman has nothing to lose but she's full of burning rage. That can be a very strong motivator to fight back. For some, it becomes the meaning of their life - if not to get revenge but to spare others the same fate.
You really took me there for a second
Those conversations would go nowhere exactly like this one, and they have an advantage of speaking fluently in the same language in this scenario.
>Those conversations would go nowhere exactly like this one, and they have an advantage of speaking fluently in the same language in this scenario. The first step to being effective in a debate like this is to accept that the other party IS NEVER going to admit to being beaten. Just because the clip didn't end with the girls admitting their leader is a murderous tyrant doesn't mean the conversation "went nowhere". By this standard, any conversation which doesn't end in one side admitting the other is right is pointless - a dangerous and defeatist attitude. These girls got taken to task and had their ingrained beliefs challenged, in their own language, by a very effective, calm, and rational opponent. By not being hostile and by not engaging in personal attacks, and always returning to the substantive matters at hand, he kept them engaged and brought home his main points again and again - this war is happening because Russia invaded a sovereign territory. They may not ever admit to each other or to themselves, but their justifications for the war fell flat. All they had was nebulous accusations of "Nazification". He asked them to define "Nazism" and they couldn't. He asked them to define "NATO" and they couldn't. He was as successful as anyone could possibly be in a debate between people from warring countries. And if he does this with every Russian he chats with, he will have had an impact. They might not admit it, but they will know on some level their government is doing an atrocious thing that they failed miserably to justify.
Russians must know they are living in a fascist state. They don't dare protest. They feel everyone is spying on them because they are! They feel they have to toe the party line! Russians aren't idiots, just immoral.
Education here right now is filled with propaganda. Also overall country education lvl went down. Tv is not filled, its only propaganda, its started in late 2013 iirc and only grew stronger and bigger. Ppl were brainwashed for 8+ years about how bad Ukraine went. Thats why middle aged population are supporting Putin and his decisions. Corruption lvl is high as always. These main three factors are stopping any possible protests from the very start. And dont forget what happened to Navalny, his name was on top of opposition, but there a lot of names who didnt went big outside of our country but now sitting in jail just because they were protesting against Putin's regime. Its really a lot more complex and hard to explain situation to foreigners. Im 36, my wife is 30 and all we want is to make a bright future to our kids so they wont need to ever come back and live here. I like places, spots, communications, QoL things in Moscow as i live here, but i hate almost everything about ppl and stuff that happens in politics here. But i would never open my mouth about it outside of my friends cirle. Because im scared to do it.
Really nice explanation!
I agree, but there's still maybe a sliver of doubt seeded. They might fight hard in the moment, but if they have an ounce of intelligence or empathy, they may go away and reflect later upon the humanity and facts that were shared. This seemed like a stalemate, but it's what happens after that might be meaningful. We need more discourse like this.
This conversation could have easily devolved and resorted to petty name-calling by either side, but it didn't and I appreciate that. They were exchanging perspectives. I happen to agree far more with the Ukrainian perspective, but like this, there was a far better likelihood that each side sees the other and gets a little better understanding, even if it's the Ukrainian seeing how the Russian girls were basing their perspective on misinformation and propaganda.
They are not shooting the breeze though, the Russian girls taunt him over Russia’s war in his country and push rashist anti-West propaganda.
All they had was the nazism angle. super easy to debunk or even infer against by anyone who knows any history, of which they were demonstrated to know none. Especially Yeltsin in 93 and the nuke deal in 94. No facts offered from their side at all, least of all supporting ones. I remember being this age and being outnumbered in an argument. He did really well, and the girls will spend time reflecting but it won't go anywhere after that. They're not bad girls, in fact they're really high quality products of a system that produces citizens like this (strong and sincere support for their side, dismissed counters, parroted their propaganda well). This thing may end when Russia runs out of conscripts, it won't be from a turn in domestic sentiment.
Indeed. And how much propaganda the Russians have absorbed...
I knew a Russian girl. She'd lived in Western Europe for years, so she was outside the Russian propaganda bubble. But it was fascinating to listen to the shit she came out with. I asked her what they all though of Putin and she told me "Oh, we love Putin. He's for the people. He came in and took on the Russian Mafia and saved us all." I then asked her "what do you think about him poisoning people and killing people in other countries?" she burst into tears and shouted at me "IT'S NOT TRUE HE NEVER DID THAT WHY WOULD YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT?"
Its funny how people living abroad prising putin. Come and live here, in Russia if you love him so much, you hypocrites
Same energy as the Turks voting no matter their location, or Muslims insisting things they disagree with not occur even though they live in the West.
I had a Russian friend and, having a mutual interest in classical music, I told him I'd love to go to Russia to watch some ballet and some other cultural interests and he said "WHY? WHY DID YOU DO THAT?! DON'T EVER GO THERE!" This was over 10 years ago and he still lives in the UK and is super proud to live here and be part of our country
I'm russian and I'd tell you the SAME.
Same. Which kinda sucks, because I miss my home, but like, *it's such a shithole*.
we have russian workers in finland at my workplace that have lived here for decades and say the same bs.
Shouting and tears indicate knowledge and guilt.
It's all they're getting Russia is a totalitarian dictatorship
Their mindset is a mish mash of talking points from state propaganda late night shows.
One of the best clips I’ve ever seen on Reddit. The young man was excellent. The poor girls have limited access to information and will probably never accept that Russia is at fault. Shows you the power of propaganda. Here in the US it’s hard to tell but at least 20% (maybe more) Americans now have a positive view of Russias actions. I see people wearing shirts that say “I’d rather elect Putin than a Democrat.” Make no mistake, these Americans are traitors.
>The poor girls have limited access to information and will probably never accept that Russia is at fault. They may never admit Russia was at fault, but that should never be the goal of a debate like this in the first place. Getting them to capitulate isn't the bar for success - it's to keep your opponents engaged while you return again and again to your points. He never attacked them personally, didn't get emotional, and challenged them to define for themselves the justifications given for the war. They regurgitated some Kremlin talking points, but they didn't sound very convinced when offering "Nazification" and "NATO" as reasons to invade. When you ask your opponent to articulate these concepts, they're forced to translate them from an ambiguous implanted concept into concrete terms, and whether they admit it or not, they know they failed. He circled back again and again to reality, refusing to engage in "what ifs" or "maybes" and stated the obvious - your country invaded mine. I've heard that a good strategy when having a heated argument or debate is to imagine that you're being filmed. If you imagine an audience is going to watch the fight your having with your partner or spouse, you're a lot less inclined to hurl nasty insults. The fact that he's recording these conversations probably helps him to remember that the goal isn't to win these girls over, but to convince the viewers that he made better points.
More than 20% get all their news from Tucker podcasts and Fox News. They love Putin and Russia now. Propaganda is insidious
They hear about him having dissidents killed and just say “he’s such a strong leader”. It’s kinda horrifying.
It really was IAF
Agreed. That was fascinating. And terrific to hear their thoughts on both sides, while trying to dismantle some propaganda.
If you don't have gas resources you don't deserve to be a sovereign country!?
This logic is from the dashing 1990s. If someone is weak or poor then you can do anything to him without any consequences.
Pretty sure this mentality is from the dawn of humanity.
It's called "might is right" it's the same ethics used by toddlers.
No. In the 1990s it was more like if you had oil or gas you got invaded
Just shows post soviet countries had very contrasting 90s. Here the law basically didn’t function during transition to market economy, hence the logic. It is not without reason russia is called a mafia state, this is precisely this 90s thug mentality of russian elites that everything is up for grabs if it doesn’t have mob protection.
They’re talking about the 90s in Russia, a period of economic ruin in the former Soviet republics during which people survived by any means necessary, including taking advantage and stealing from others. Many of today’s influential people including businessmen and politicians started out as gangsters in the 80s and 90s around the collapse of the Soviet Union. Many people are still stuck in that 90s mentality of taking what you want just because you can.
That's bully logic.
Yeah, exactly. Victim’s weakness is victim’s own “fault”, or something like that.
Gas, and gaslighting. That's Russia!
Wait until someone tells them about the Domino gas field in the Black Sea. Or did they think Uncle Vladimir wanted Crimea for sentimental reasons? Same reason they want all ten Black Sea coast- the claim the field, otherwise the EU will have energy independence from Russia.
Domino in the Black Sea? Have you heard about Yuzivska gas field: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuzivska_gas_field?
Yeah, I have (used to work in the sector, specifically in exploration). It’s a big one- 19 billion cubic meters total potential. Domino, as part of the Neptun Deep project is around. 100 BCM. Both are strategically vital to the EU, both are strategically vital for Russia to control to keep beignets nuclear armed, mafia run, gas station they’ve been for quite some time. The maritime one comes with the added complexity of coast line deciding claim size given the proximity to shore. Ukraine is a wealthy country, but for Russia stealing from it. So is Romania, and Russia fucking hates that idea.
That was very interesting. It's weird that the one girl is basically advocating taking Ukraine because they're small and weak. "You don't have anything. You don't have your own gas." So, your argument is that Russia should be allowed to take any weaker countries?
This is exactly their argument. I only wish more people realized it sooner.
No, that’s not there argument. Or at least it is a very simplified version of their argument. I’ll preface this by saying I don’t agree with this obviously, but the argument they’re making is that to be a “country” you need to have complete self sufficiency. Russia fears not being self sufficient because it knows it can easily be cut off from the rest of the world. So it has to consolidate all of the countries with close cultural and ethnic ties, like Ukraine, in order to have a state that can stand on an island from the west. Russian propaganda says that the US and NATO will turn their backs on former Soviet states once their interest dies down. Once it’s not convenient. So the Russian idea is to capture as much territory as possible in order to gain as much power as possible. They pitch this as a benefit for the Ukrainians; that they’ll be part of a bigger economy. Russian propaganda also says that a war with the west is incoming soon; and it will result from western aggression, so the Russians believe that in order to defend themselves that need to consolidate back into the Soviet Union. Ukraine has a ton of farmland and other resources that Russia would benefit from, and they have ethnic Russians, so that’s why Russia has their sights on them. But they’ve also invaded Georgia and many other former Soviet states are not out of the question.
Nice explanation. Ironically it sounds an awful lot like Hitlers war goals - unite the German speaking people/nations and then secure enough additional territory and resources to be a powerful self standing empire. Plus the extra sprinkle of might makes right justifications around sovereignty too. And mistrear minorities along the way. Did I miss anything from the parallels to Russia? And they accuse Ukraine of fascism and nazism??
Oh absolutely. It’s the goal of several empires and powers throughout history. That’s why the whole concept of the “balance of power” was so important. Countries would get insecure if they were weaker than their neighbors and they had something that their neighbor wanted. Although unlike Hitler, the idea of many of these empires was that once the weaker nation was incorporated in, the citizens would be on equal standing with the native nation. The only tradeoff was that during war men could be conscripted and the core nation now had access to all their economic systems and resources. Aside from the militaristic humiliation, everyone was “theoretically” better off. Basically the goal was globalization by force. In modern times thankfully we have a better system of treaties and agreements. The USA has had a few very successful attempts at it. Germany, South Korea, and Japan are America’s best allies because rather than do the usual thing of plundering or colonizing defeated nations, they set up a military agreement with them and helped them rebuild. If a nation is healthy and happy it will be far less likely to start a war. Of course the US didn’t do this out of kindness but rather strategy and forward thinking, and the US wasn’t the first one to try this but the most successful. Plus they had the privilege of doing so as the US is very well defend from invaders and very resourceful on its own.
The perceived idea is that Russia will take care of Ukraine, like it does to it's other Republics. But in reality we know how it would go.
They got it all wrong - you should invade countries which have oil and gas
That’s exactly how it is portrayed it’s an imperialistic attitude through and through.
That’s the Moscovite mentality in a nutshell. They will take something just because they can. Most of the time they don’t need it or didn’t even want it, but because it belongs to someone weaker, they have the urge to take it for themselves to prove dominance or something.
This is better than the presidential debate.
Not a high hurdle.
All three ages combined are probably less than the age of either candidate Edit: Trump is 78. They all can be 26 years old and it would be the exact same amount
At least they finished... most of their sentences on the same topic they started with XD
“Russia invaded Ukraine because they decided to join NATO” “Ok, explain what NATO is” *crickets* Wow lol
"NATO is a defensive military organization." "Defense against what?" "Well, for example, like Russia invading Ukraine." "And there it is!" Lady, that's really not the "Gotcha!" you clearly think it is lol
The problem is, they really do think it is. Because they are so far down the rabbit hole, they are convinced NATO it out to get them.
NATO was literally formed initially for the explicit purpose of protecting European countries from potential German and/or Russian aggression. It’s hilarious to hear Russians talk about it as if simply joining a defensive alliance is an act of aggression.
It's funnier when she tried to pull off the mind trick of, "**You** don't know what NATO is? Damn, okay stupid", like what?
When he says about joining NATO they have a look of offense like 'Aha, see - it's being done against Russia'
Being from Taiwan this gave me so much flashbacks of my online 'discussions' with some chinese
i can only imagine their superiority complex...Greetings from Latvia.. a small nation living by the bully neighbour.
Thanks, a lot of us do find a lot of similarities with the Baltic triplets. But you're lucky to have a lot of NATO neighbors and now that Russia had been proven a paper tiger with this war, yet our tiger is still theoretically real
Don’t worry, almost everyone I speak to with a conscious in the US cares about Taiwan. I’ll always support you guys and do my best to spread the sentiment. We’d fight a paper tiger or a real tiger for ya 🖤
A group even more brain washed than the Russians
I like to ask the Chinese keyboard warriors why the Taiwanese people aren’t allowed to choose the destiny of the place they live in. They typically stumble hard on that one and/or have to resort to ultra-BS argument along the line of “we are 1.4bn Chinese so we are the majority who can decide”. “
I hope the ukraine situation dissolves in a way that leaces China unwilling to risk the same and attack Taiwan! I love your country from what I can hear, and I wish you a bright and peaceful future. And not only because the list of truly working democracies worldwide is dangerously short.
Seems to me you see the effect of propaganda in action. The women use some buzz words and phrases they probably picked up in the Russian media, but when you ask why they think that way, there is no answer. I hope by talking through Ukrainians they start to see the media they consume in the motherland is propaganda. And start thinking for themselves.
You are correct they literally speak in unrelated talking points from Solovyov/Kiselyov talk shows.
It’s like Oprah for fascists lmao
Literally is. A lot of Russian boomers tune in to this just casually watching TV after work.
Happens to people in America too. Happens all over. Propaganda is a powerful way to control the masses.
Can confirm. I'll be talking with my parents and then my mom will launch into some tirade filled with buzzwords that she probably heard from Gutfeld on Fox. Looking back, I now see the insidious way my mom and even my more moderate father who wasn't a big fan of Fox News have gotten sucked into that echo chamber over the past 25 years... I know Roger Ailes is roasting in hell and I hope the Murdochs follow him there swiftly.
Those two seemed too far gone to learn anything.
The one on the left did not. When they were talking about NATO I saw a couple light bulbs go off in her head.
Honestly I think the blond girl started coming around, if not entirely; she was at least willing to start looking things up and questioning things she said before, like her attack on nato but not understanding why she hates nato. I’m honestly now worried for these young women being arrested by Putins thugs.
Yeah, if this video gets too popular those two girls could actually be in danger. Well, maybe. I don't know this for a fact. But if I was a totalitarian state, I wouldn't take kindly to large public examples of my citizens being made to question propaganda
yea hope these kids are okay...honestly I feel like people need to blur others faces if they're gonna do this!
That would be good. I hope you are right.
Yes, I saw that. Sudden realisation.
Cognitive dissonance in real time
As a Pole, I can guarantee that if our army ever enters Ukraine, it will be to kill russian occupiers. There is, of course, a vocal minority of ukrainophobes in our country, but it's very small and the vast majority of Poles, as well as our government, supports Ukraine and despises Russia.
And the fun thing is: even in this minority that has some issues with Ukrainie, most hate Russia even more. The rest are just tankies on rubel payroll.
The only thing they need to learn is : if Russia stops fighting there is no war anymore, if Ukraine stops fighting there is no Ukraine anymore. As simple as that
As a Pole I really appreciate that we're, Poland, the top arch-enemy of Russia after global military powerhouse USA. Damn, we gotta start paying even more than 4% of our GDP on defense than. Gonna meet the expectations somehow!
We need more talks like this. It’s a shame that they so easily get heated though, and that people interrupt each other so easily. But I’d probably be equally infuriated if I was the guy… communication is the hardest
He has couple of hundreds videos with dialogues like this on his youtube chanel. And I literally watched every one of them. If only his videos was popping in western waters more often.
Guy was sound but TBF,he just hammered them,not letting them talk at all.
agreed, but imagine being Ukrainian and trying your best to keep your cool in this situation ...
It's not easy for sure, but people tend to cut in between sentences when they feel they don't get a fair chance to speak.
Yeah I fully believe he would have made his case even better by just letting them hang their own rope.
I loved it when he clearly stated that invaders are evil, just like Germany, Japan, and Italy were in WWII, and I am Italian. This man just paid honour to the sacrifice of millions of people. Well done Ukraine, you've been raising thinking souls. Slava Ukraini!
He didn't mention (and it wouldn't have helped his argument), that in WWII, the Soviet Union was initially an invader as well. Germany and the Soviet Union agreed to attack Poland from both sides and split in between them, until Germany broke the agreement and back-stabbed the Soviet Union, turning them from aggressor to victim.
The Soviets also invaded Finland in 1939.
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Russians will looooove to tell you that Romanians and Finns were Nazi collaborators. But they'll never say why, which is that literally the only way those countries could continue to exist was if they allied with the one country that was fighting against the Soviets that were trying to erase them.
I’m also boggled by the little or no use of the argument of the Ribbentrop-Molotov treaty. I believe that there is a good part of academics that don’t simply consider it a share of the spoils but also an aspect of the ~~guardianship~~ siding of the Soviets against the Axis. That said, he did a perfect job without even mentioning that (btw, I agree with you, it was a heinous and utter sharing of the spoils by Stalin and Hitler, as demonstrated by the subsequent years in Czechoslovakia and Hungary).
He already had multiple topics to cover, with girls trying to change topic whenever they couldn't counter his arguments. Digging too deep into WW2 history would have only distracted from talking about todays issues in Ukraine.
yup. there's a word for countries that work together to achieve a common and mutually beneficial goal like invading and partitioning a country in between them, the word is just on the tip of my tongue, ah what is it...
I'm a fellow Italian and I'm actually surprised to hear someone not openly rooting for russia! 👍🏼👍🏼
Kind of shut her up when he brought up all the supplies sent in WW2. Poor girl is just regurgitating the propaganda she is told. Maybe this exchange will have her question the truth and do some research.
Also when he pressed her to tell him why NATO was bad, just complete blank, the propaganda script never got that far, never justified why it was bad just told then "NATO big bad, Ukraine Nazis"
Amazing when Russian Vatniks and western Tankies learn that Russian victory against Nazi Germany would not have happened were it not for USA’s Lend-Lease.
I like how it all boils down to "Russians came in, so they don't need to come out. If they had stayed at home, we'd all be fine"
i like that the girls dont end the call and instead choose to listen to him, even if the debate is getting heated. gives me hope
Make educating yourself great again.
Unfortunately they likely don’t really have a choice since they live in Russia. Propaganda is the only conventionally accessible option for them.
This is exactly what the world needs more of. Regular people communicating. I hope these girls realize their country is culpable for the war, even in some small way
I doubt they learned anything. They didn't even understand the Russian propaganda they are trying (and failing) to yap back at him. Especially the one on the right is so damn dumb, all she has to show is her unjustified self-confidence. "Oh we attacked you necause you want to join the Nato" - "Ok and what is the Nato?" - crickets...
People's pride will keep them from directly admitting they're wrong but the women were quite silent at the end, which means he may have gotten through to them in some small way.
To add to this, many people on social media struggle to see another person they are talking to. On a video call like this, it is easier to understand another person and have empathy.
I don't think these people are straight up dumb. Propaganda is a very complex way of manipulating and I think nearly everyone is being manipulated by it. Elections, Middle Eastern conflict, the war between Russia and Ukraine and many other forms of politics are all things that benefit heavily from manipulating people into supporting you or joining your cause and with social media we have a perfect platform to execute said propaganda. The time where people believe what they are taught in schools (or at home) is over and external views (also from bad actors) are becoming more and more prevalent in what people think and support. We, as humanity, really need to find a way for ourselves to filter out all the bullshit and stop believing everything we read and see on social media. Too many people do this and it's really affecting our political landscapes and thus increase the possibility for wars
I also think they have to be careful because they could be arrested. I saw an article saying a 15 year old was sentenced to 5 years of prison for speaking out against the war
You are Nazis. Ok what is your understanding of Nazism *Crickets*
She really hit him with the we suck more gas out of hole in the ground take L Ukraine lmao
I would not say that. They are utterly uneducated on the history of their own country, they didn't even know the Russian alternative versions of history, they knew absolutely no version of history. So this short interaction definitely turned some of their gears. But this takes time. And while it may not convince them Russia is the aggressor, it might tune down their brainless patriotism.
Russians communicate with Ukrainians online all the time, more than you might think, and this communication doesn't look like what you expect.
I think the main issue is, people like this cannot afford to change such an important opinion/worldview as this, because it would completely shatter their mind. Like, to realize, ADMIT, you've been wrong, lied to, been stupid, EVIL, your whole life? I don't think many people would be able to handle this.
It is hard. I was 19 when the Iraq war started and was convinced it was the right thing. It took time, but I came to realize that it was an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation that didn’t attack us. I’d imagine it’s even harder in a country in which the government controls all the media. I’m actually surprised that those kids are able to use Omegle (or whatever it’s called now) to chat with someone outside of the country
>Like, to realize, ADMIT, you've been wrong, lied to, been stupid, EVIL, your whole life? I don't think many people would be able to handle this. It's the same thing with religion too. Nobody has all the answers but you cannot reason or logic with someone who's been devoting their entire life into a particular faith and belief. It would break them. They simply can't handle it.
Its hillarious. Whenever they cant explain a circumstance or dont know, how to answer, they try to change the topic and quickly get stuck in their mental void of that topic again and then they try to change the topic again and so on. And theyre still very confident to be right. This is, what i call totally delusional. Russian brainwashing must be quite effective tbh as it just took 1 generation to deliver results like that.
the thing that you miss is that this is not the first generation. i bet that their parents are the same because it's been indoctrinated into the people for decades. it just had a certain revival but it never really stopped. i dont want to say that all russians believe in that but there is still a substantial amount of "sheep" if you so will. they were grown and taught not to trust any western media/governement and only the truth is spoken in the russian media.
The lad is sound.
He earned my undying respect with the way he delivered that line about "The greatest joy for a Ukrainian" in the beginning. Ice cold.
Fundamentally these people don't hate each other or are bad, they've just been told that each others countries are bad and are talking it through. Its pretty clear those girls have drank the kool aid, they seem to believe its justified but you can see the cracks in their arguments. These sorts of conversations are really important.
It’s not that they’ve drunkin the kool aid, they just get one side of the story from their government. They’re also very young, so they haven’t been fully exposed to the way the world works. The fact that they’re even willing to have this discussion with someone from Ukraine is a good first step
Yeah thats sort of what I meant but put better:)
If you know history well, it's already easy for you to win an argument
Me and My brother spoke to around 200 russians on chat roulette. Around 3 sorta changed mind, around a dozen were anti war (who still live in russia). Rest goes + - like with these girls. And those talks were closer to start of the war. Now Roskomnadzor closed the internet even more, including every single non-kremlin media and platforms (except youtube, but even that recommends z-shit to them) They're too far gone. They even teach z-shit in kindergardens and schools. Some anti-putin russians, that still didn't leave, are shocked to find their children supporting war, because that's now how schools work, and the whole society They're full blown fascists now Most terrifying is almost no one in the west grasps the severity of situation. They mass murder us, ukrainians, daily, get mass murdered daily themselves and still go to Ukraine. Future is looking very bleak, friends. There is no plan in the west, except freeze the conflict to give this version of russia a break to regroup
Moscow/St. Petersburg kids in their safe and warm little bubble.
just bought their plane tickets to Antalya to refresh their instagram (that they need to log in by vpn as it's banned to russians)
Sad to see how misinformed and brainwashed these Russian kids are.
Only watched the first minutes so far but I already like how having the "cooler" army justifies invading another country lol. edit: Watched the rest, complete brain rot.
"You have a hole from which you suck, you intellectually produce nothing."
Incredible how the Russian girls were manipulated to think this war is good and justifiable. Putin’s propaganda is doing a good job in Russia. The Ukrainian guy nailed with the arguments!
I didn't expect to watch so much of this. Perfect illustration of how exceedingly difficult arguing with someone uninformed can be. Good on this guy for keeping composure.
Geez the people hating on the dude for being angry have no idea
The level of propaganda on these people is pretty sad tbh. The short of it is: Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia is on Ukrainian soil, and to his point, usually the side that attacks is in the wrong.
They didn't stand a chance lol. Glad is was pretty civil and at the end of the day, they are just regular ass people who deep down, ultimately want the same thing, to live in peace That russian propaganda machine is powerful though
Those girls are just like MAGAs parroting words without knowing what they mean
Yes the way they talk is eerily similar
Entire russian propoganda boils down to 2014 maidan when they kicked out russian puppet president. This makes russia mad and they want to reinstate their puppet government. When that fails its "Ukraine isnt a real country, its not self sufficient, therefore we can invade it to exploit it" When that fails its generic nazis eating orthodox babies bs. Its just an infinite loop of fallacies. Russians can never acknowledge that a sovereign country can be a sovereign country.
It's just hilarious how they thought flexing having more gas/oil is something they achieved, and not just inherit due to geography. What will ruZzia be in the future when there are more efficient ways to create electricity then currently the nuclear fission, and their main export becomes obsolete? I'm guessing something like NK but on a larger scale.
nah, lets be honest, Russia will always be a very resource rich country. And gas for example will still be useful for chemical production, even if we shift completely to renewables.
I’m wondering if they know how much of their market they have lost.
Tbf to the russian girls. The guy obviously went into chat roulette looking for a conversation like this and was prepared. The girls had very little knowledge on the conflict and gave him no challenge.
If you are Russian - the only correct thig to say is " ITS NOT MY WAR " !
As a Czech i hate these stupid fucks with every fibre of my body..... "nobody knows the truth" & "if only there were less nazis" and other bulshit they repeat like demented parrots My country didnt have nazis or didn't want to join nato and they still invaded Prague in 1968 They are scum....thats it
"because you don't have your own support. Because you are not a self sufficient country" I translated that as "You don't have sufficient means to stave off our invasion, our murderers, our rapists."
its crazy to think just how indoctrinated the people from russia, china, and north korea are. To westerners putin has lost his mind but to the russians theyre mostly fighting cause they believe putin and his military "operations"
At 6:50 is the crutch of the issue. The girls are brainwashed from a young age to believe they have a right to the baltics she literally lists the ones that will be next. You know who also wanted to recreate a European empire of his predecessors?
Yea prideful idiots are a different beast to handle, YOU can't tell them anything, because they think of you as lesser, how can a lesser person teach them anything? So instead you do all the critical thinking for them and let them put the pieces together themselves.
Listening to the girls... when I was a teen in college, I heard conversations similar with US kids. Uninformed, propagandized, and taught not to have any media literacy or thoughts about reality. I really hope this conversation sparked some questions in their heads. They don't seem super set in what they're saying.
If all the youth in Russia are this messed up and misinformed, as maybe everyone expected, the war might last longer than we thought.. You see how proud they are, yet they dont know shit about fuck.
Exactly this we this is what Putin and his government are terrified of: * Open communication where a discussion takes place. Because it is when this happens that it is so clear that Putin is an idiot who attacks a country for absolutely no reason, that Putin kills his own soldiers only because of a sick idea, that Putin kills innocent people both in Ukraine and his own citizens. ##It always has and forever will be 100% proof that you know you are wrong when you ban criticism and communication against your own opinions. Putin is 100% aware that he is doing absolutely wrong in his war. But he completely ignores it as he is a disturbed and sick idiot.
Russia did it cause it could, simple. Wrapping it with NATO and crimes against Russian speaking populace in Ukraine was just a pretext. However, untangling this mess wouldn't be a straight and simple solution, IMHO.
The Russian girls are saying that Russia doesn't execute their prisoners but Ukraine does? How is the truth so hidden and controlled in Russia? They don't know even half of the torture going on unfortunately.
"Have you ever tried to learn the truth" "No, and I don't want to. I don't want to" a lost country. Doomed country. Their collapse is going to be bad.
Chwała Ukrainie.
Its sad to see normal citizens have such conversations. Talking about people killing each other and how its justified or not, war is such a cruel thing. The russian girls growing up thinking its a normal thing to crush the weak and claim everything they own, so sad.
congratulations to the boy from Ukraine. Very good and stringent argumentation.
It’s fascinating how they can make claims about all the wrongdoings NATO and Ukraine have committed, yet they don’t even know what NATO is. It’s just sad. A country intentionally making its own population stupid and uneducated to the point of not being to achieve any growth just for the sake of one rich guy's power. Putin is sitting on a throne, while most of his country pays for it.
No only will probably see this, but I found this to be incredibly sad. They are both just repeating propaganda to each other, which is naturally a mixed bag of half-truths and twisted logic: "It is good to invade Ukraine because you are weak and poor." Are you sure?? "The US supports us so we must be the good guys!" Friend, I encourage you to more closely examine our historical track record! The US is hardly a consistent opponent of fascism. Much to the contrary. "There's no Nazis in Ukraine!" Of course there is and in their military too! More than one Ukrainian unit emblem proudly features historically fascist symbolism including that from WWII Nazi-SS collaborator units. The much vaunted Azov doesn't exactly try to hide their history or beliefs. Does that mean Putin's De-Nazification talk is correct? Nope. There's fascists on the Russian side too! "You execute our prisoners!" "No, you execute our prisoners!" Both armies are committing war crimes. The Ukrainian is right, it's on video, including summary executions committed by his side. Does he not know or just excuse it as tit-for-tat? I don't know, I had to turn it off. I don't find this very interesting. It would be interesting to me if he had taken the fig leaf offered by the woman at the beginning and they had made a real human connection transcending the conflict instead of perpetuating it in their own lives by lobbing one-sided arguments at each other. This reflection of how two governments manipulate their people to engender hatred of their neighbor, turning a bind eye to the crimes of their own state, and support a senseless war is just depressing.
She has the dumb self-confidence only a pretty blonde can have.* I'd have liked to hear more from the one on the left. It is very interesting to see the effects of decades of lies & propaganda first hand. The guy has solid arguments but is a bit too loud. Still - they're trying to have a talk which in itself is good. --- "You killed people (in Ukraine) because they speak Russian!" - "And what language am I speaking to you right now?" 🤣 --- I feel for the guy most when he just sighs. He does that a lot. --- \* I am not really being misogynystic here, or sexist. First of all I watched the video before I commented, I'm talking about what she actually said and how. I am refering to people who have mainstream good looks and grow up in a society that tends to reward them for that, and not their intelligence. Nothing to do with gender. Note my phrasing: I'm not even saying she is dumb - how could I, I don't know her. But she doesn't seem to think much before answering and often seems to think that a monosyllabic phrase combined with a toss of the head and a vacant smile is just as valid as an actual counter-argument. And I'm definitely not saying that all women with certain physical attributes are dumb. Which is what some people seem to have heard here. Check your reading comprehension.
he's really good whenever they try to change the subject to "yeah, but what about that other thing?". I've talked to enough brainwashed people toknow how their arguments work. it always boils down to"yeah but my book says I'm right and you're wrong. and so says my mom"
I wanted to hear more from the girl on the left as well, but neither her friend, nor the guy gave her the word. She had different point of view none the others were about to agree with. It’s a shame, let’s hope they came up with a second video in the near future.
She echoing the sentiment of every western tankie as well. Russia attacked because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, to protect them from being attacked by Russia. Every one of their arguments is like: we wouldn't have to rape you if you'd just consent to be fucked. Resisting will only make it worse for you, because it's gonna happen no matter what because it's my right. No matter how they formulate it, it basically comes down to the fact that they don't think Ukraine should exist independently. All the other crap is just the same as the American civil war being about state's rights.
I think he was getting through a bit, but it shows how shallow the propaganda goes .. Nazism was developing was the reason for the invasion, and killing Russian speakers, I wish he'd dug deeper ok those to dispel the lies they have been fed more.
>She has the dumb self-confidence only a pretty blonde can have. Wow
Not how I would have phrased it but she clearly has almost no grasp of history but is extremely confident at the same time. It is 100%, undistilled dumb self confidence
The Russian girls don't see the flaw in the voluntarily biased message they are fed with daily: if there were rampant Neo-nazis observed for so long acting against Russians of Donbass and Donetsk, then how would their number have grown to the point of becoming the largest ethnic minority in Ukraine over time? Furthermore: >According to the Institute of Sociology surveys conducted yearly **between 1995 and 2005, the percentage of respondents who have encountered cases of ethnic-based discrimination against Russians during the preceding year has consistently been low (mostly in single digits)**, with no noticeable difference when compared with the number of incidents directed against any other nation, including the Ukrainians and the Jews. According to the 2007 Comparative Survey of Ukraine and Europe only 0.1% of Ukrainian residents consider themselves belonging to a group which is discriminated by nationality. **However, by April 2017 in a public opinion survey conducted by Rating Group Ukraine, 57 percent of Ukrainians polled expressed a very cold or cold attitude toward Russia, as opposed to only 17 percent who expressed a very warm or warm attitude.** - Russians in Ukraine, Wikipedia. Make us wonder what could have happened. Oh wait...
“Did the Americans only send aid to the Soviet Union?” No, that’s the point. American aid has nothing to do with who “doesn’t have an army.” Girl on the right is braindead.
I know idiots like these exist but I always want to pretending they're not, my life already stressed ad fk. My latest family big problem also because they're stupid like this, fk every logic. Watching this just ruined my mood. I watched it because the man is reasonable, I like listen him talk.
Pravda
I feel like if the dude didn't start attacking girls directly just because they're Russians, he could have convinced them how brainwashed they are. My belief is that ordinary Russians do not think deeply about the war while being exposed to all types of propaganda on a daily basis. Hence, if he let them know about how horrible the war is for both Russians and Ukrainians, he could have gained two young person in Russia who are against the more. Many in here are full of hatred for Russian people but let's accept that there are many Russians who are against this war or suffered from it and not able to do anything about it due to oppression from the government. As a fellow person living in a semi-oppressive government, I totally understand being against something but also not being able to do anything about it.
These girls are brainwashed by Russian propaganda.
Like a high school argument. No point trying to make sense to them
I love how biased the comment section is. Its funny, because everyone is talking like the girls are the only ones subjected to propaganda, and that they dont know anything because they are "brainwashed". The reality is, he chose to debate these russians because they were not interested in politics and therefore only know what the news and their connections say. This is something that will be the case for anyone from any country aslong as they are not interested in politics or history. You could go to the average person in any country and they wouldnt be able to debate anything about this. And at the same time, they would spit out the propaganda that they hear from their respective news or connections. No country is immune to propaganda, especially not anyone supporting ukraine or russia. Also i cant fathom how someone can answer "How are you feeling?" with "im good because of all the dead russian soldiers" or whatever like that he said. He clearly came there to debate, he didnt come to listen to what they had to say, he came to make... A sort of propaganda, in of itself, maybe to let out some anger aswell in the process. And to show off his psychopathic side. Anyways, im probably gonna get downvoted for saying all this. But, sue me, both he and them are brainwashed, the difference is that he came for the purpose of making this video and bringing up this theme. While they came for the purpose of talking and probably not about the war.
I enjoy this
If siblings next door were fighting each other, I'm not going to forcefully enter their home, do damage, and try to displace them from it.
What’s the hand gesture the girl on the left is doing? Does she just have a sore elbow or something?
I think shes raising her hand for the opportunity to speak
Those girls were in way over their heads. Granted I think a lot of people would be because this guy's seems to have more knowledge than the average person on this matter but shit these girls had nothing but propaganda to spew out.
Very eloquent and calm young man and credit to Ukraine.
Different topic but that reminded me of debates before european elections in germany. Fascists vs the left. The left tried to explain their points with proof and scources that back them up and the fascist is like "no i don't believe that"