Hey, sorry, I suck at using reddit and I think my text didn't post with the photos, so if that's the case, this is what I wrote with the original post:
(edited:typo)
Hey, I've dropped in on this page a little and thought maybe I'd go out on a limb and post. I don't know if iF is right for me and I can't afford a personal trainer so I guess I hope to gain some encouragement, advice, ideas, etc.
I don't think I have a lot of weight to lose and I'm not new to fitness. I'm really just trying to slim down so I can actually see the hard work I put in! Mainly I'm dying to rid myself of the extra weight I carry around my trunk and ideally, I'd like to not lose my muscle in the process.
I inadvertently discovered the basic idea of IF in a YouTube video about 6 years ago. The tuber didn't outright call it IF but she said she starts her eating at noon so she's able to cut out so many calories by reducing time spent eating. I mean, I know it's more nuanced than that. Anyway, for the better part of the past 6 years, I really held on to this idea and typically begin my eating at noon, with one significant caveat: I always drink coffee, at least a couple cups, and I don't drink it black (half and half). Could this really be what sets me back?
Recently I stumbled across Lean Gains and realized how wrong I had been approaching this whole thing.
But here's where it gets a little more tricky for me in my specific situation. My schedule is whack. I do intense exercise, circus acrobatics and things like that. I train mainly in the evenings, usually around 6pm and a lot of nights until 9. Sometimes in the AM on weekends. It's a little all over. There is no way I can eat dinner first. I cannot eat within a few hours of training as I have GERD/ chronic heartburn, and other problems that make training with any food in my stomach unbearably uncomfortable (I am upside down and get my stomach squeezed a lot in my training.)
When I finish training at 9pm, I'm so hungry for dinner. By the time I get home and cook from scratch, I usually don't end up eating until 10 at least. I was thinking aiming for 14/10 would be achievable but most days it's a struggle for me to go 12 hours fasting - and that's even with a couple cups of coffee with half and half so I'm already "cheating."
I also want to point out that I eat pretty healthy, vegetarian and no soda or junk food except I love sweets, though I try very hard to keep it in moderation. I admit however I do not count calories and ideally I would keep it that way.
So idk, I feel a bit overwhelmed by this whole thing. I just want to get into a good habit/ perhaps lifestyle change that helps me reach my goal and doesn't feel like a constant battle. When I put my mind to something, I'm good at staying strong. However, I tend to get easily discouraged if I feel like I'm not getting anywhere.
Thanks.
IF works for 2 reasons. The first is pretty easy to understand, skip a meal you'll generally eat less calories. But the bigger reason is your insulin response. When you consume any calories you spike insulin. Carbs spike it more, refined sugars spike it on steroids. By letting your body not consume calories you lower your insulin, when you have low insulin your body uses body fat for energy. So when you drink that coffee you tell your body stop using fat, I'm going to give you energy through eating now. But waiting longer your body will happily use body fat for energy.
So mostly stop thinking about food and think about insulin. If you're walking around at 18 hours fast you're 100% using energy from inside your body. And your body loves using that energy, so you do typically feel better. It's not proper to say calories don't matter, they do but it's good to understand they're just part of a bigger puzzle, and insulin is what really tells your body how to function energy wise.
Ah-ha, this is the info I'm looking for. Thank you for putting it into perspective like that.
So for those saying they allow a little cream in their coffee, is it some other factor aside from the insulin that's working for them?
Fat barely has an insulin response when you eat it. That's why keto became a thing, if you only eat fat and protein you don't leave fat burn mode as much as carbs do. So if you need a dash of cream to keep you going it's not going to ruin the fast but ideally no calories create the best case scenario. But if that dash of cream keeps you fasted otherwise for another 4 plus hours you're still ahead of the game.
I read that as "a dish of cream" lol, confirmation bias!
Ok, this is really interesting. I feel like I have a much better understanding of the whole concept.
Maybe not a dish lol but I totally get it, it's fascinating and when you deep dive into hormones things actually make more sense. The body doesn't really care about the energy source, we are super adapted to eat whatever and get what we can from it. But in this age of plenty it requires more work to keep healthy. Ben Bickmen has tons of his research online and I really enjoy his stuff.
>For those wondering if their morning cup of joe is safe to drink, it likely is.
>
>One 2021 study that looked at the effects of coffee on insulin resistance and sensitivity found that “long-term caffeinated or decaffeinated coffee consumption does not negatively affect insulin resistance or sensitivity.” Researchers added that “there is no need to restrict coffee intake in [those with diabetes and prediabetes] for fear of insulin resistance.”
Source: https://diatribe.org/diet-and-nutrition/does-caffeine-affect-blood-sugar# (and also chatGPT)
Looking more into it, it seems to be complicated.
>If you have diabetes, caffeine might affect the way your body uses insulin. And that could lead to higher or lower blood sugar. For some people with diabetes, about 200 milligrams of caffeine can cause this change. For others, it may have no significant effect on blood sugar.
>
>Caffeine affects each person differently. If you have diabetes or if you find it hard to control your blood sugar, limiting the amount of caffeine in your diet might be helpful. Talk to a member of your healthcare team if you have questions or concerns about caffeine.
Source: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/type-2-diabetes/expert-answers/blood-sugar/faq-20057941
Adding on to this excellent comment that you might track your protein consumption too if you’re worried about losing muscle. I don’t know your needs but I aim for 105 g of protein per day and I’m 5’6 and moderately active. It’s surprisingly hard to get that much without trying pretty hard.
IF lends itself to routine, so if you don’t have a routine it’s going to be difficult. But it sounds like you should at least shift your eating window later in the day to accommodate the usually-later workouts. Eating between 1-11pm gives a 14/10 schedule that might work better for your needs. Cream in coffee isn’t ideal, but that’s how I did it for a couple years and I still saw significant benefits (similar to you, I didn’t have much weight to lose). Ultimately it’s not that hard to get used to black coffee if you’ve already cut out sweeteners. It can take a little while but I’m really glad I made a concerted effort to switch to black coffee.
In your case you need to be careful to identify when the feeling of hunger indicates that you really need food or whether your body is just habitualized to eating at certain times/contexts. A 12 hour fast isn’t really a fast, so if you’re struggling to get through it, it could just be your body’s protest to change or it could be because you are very active and need food to recover properly. My partner does endurance cycling and his IF routine needs to take a backseat when he’s recovering.
You shouldn’t need to count calories or cut the cream from your coffee at this point but you definitely need to actually fast for IF to work. 14 hours is a good starting goal (16 hours is better) and it’s going to feel bad getting there bc the body will protest at the change. It helped me to realize that nothing actually bad is going to happen if I don’t eat, no matter how bad it feels. My body can survive days without food if it needs to, 16 hours is nothing. That being said, be safe, use electrolytes during your fasting window, and don’t push yourself if you are experiencing very low blood sugar.
I also suffer from GERD and live for coffee. I reluctantly switched to cold brew 2 years ago because of the reduced acid and now I can't imagine going back to hot coffee. I make it at home by the gallon and my heartburn has significantly decreased. I found it far easier to go black with cold brew as well.
IMO it’s all about calories in/calories out. IF helps with weight loss because like you said, your eating window is smaller and you generally consume less food. I have gone from 275-252 in two months and still allow myself coffee with some creamer 4-5 days a week. So I would guess that coffee with a splash of half and half won’t set you back terribly if you’re just fasting for weight loss.
To add. I do the same, I work out daily and am building kind of an athlete build. I have some coffee in the morning (iced, light oat milk) for a preworkout, and it hasnt hindered any progress.
It's really about WHAT you're eating and how much. I naturally am eating whole and healthy foods, but I still have sweets here and there. I just do it in my window and am cognitive of how many calories Im eating. Also, I dont eat carbs too much, so it's okay if I want that donut or dessert. Moderation is what I've really learned, and it's made eating those things so much better. Good luck!
I do! Workout mornings early generally, no later than 10am. I add HIIT and about 30-45 minutes on a bike at the end as well.
I've seen muscle increase and build. My overall strength has gotten better. However, this could come down to genetics, maybe? Though I do use creatine, less than 5gs a day the past 3 weeks. I was still gaining muscle before then, I just wanted an extra little boost.
I think your body will balance out. I also add a protein drink a day with the first meal. I should also mention I was a 4 sport athlete in HS and did powerlifting. I say that because I think it matters when building muscle, theres a base of muscle memory built up so I think its easier for me at first..I know in about a month I'll probably hit a plateau with IF too.
Overall, also make sure you're getting as much protein as you can in the day. I think that will help
I totally get not wanting to track calories, food intake etc. obviously it’s a pain in the butt.
I will say that you might consider it, if even for the short term. You obviously train a lot, and eat healthy. It seems like regardless of the individual plan (IF, keto, carnivore etc) some people (including me) struggle with that final 5% “fine tuning”.
Usually that’s exactly what it is…. Fine tuning. It could mean changing/adding exercises to break a plateau or slightly altering your diet. Either way, if all else fails consider a change for a few weeks. If you go the exercise route, consider body weight calisthenics (tons of you tube info routines) if you go the diet route consider a macro app for a few weeks, just to see what your current weekly intake shows. It can be eye opening when you see what a day/ week looks like in terms of protein, fat and carbs. I wouldn’t want to do it forever but it helped me see that I was a lot lower in overall protein than I thought…. Found a good plant based protein + collagen as a daily supplement!
You hit the nail on the head. I wish I could change the title to "can IF help me fine tune"! I'm curious which macro app you might recommend? I could use some eye opening, my fear is just that once I start tracking everything I eat I'll be driven to the brink of insanity by it!
I’ve been using My Fitness Pal. Initially I tried to find a free app, which several claim to be, but then most of the useful features require payment. This one was recommended to me and so I bit the bullet and paid for it. It’s tedious but you can save foods you eat often, can scan bar codes on packed foods.
After I saw the pictures of OP, I thought she was here to help me. Your fitness is admirable and I hope you find the help you need. One thing that has helped to endure intense workouts is to eat a good amount of protein an hour before but my workouts are generally within my eating window.
That's very sweet, thank you! And now I see how my headline could be misleading, lol. I could certainly someone get in shape, but sadly I'm crap at, as another Redditor very succinctly put it, "fine tuning." Hence why I'm looking to IF! :)
Hey, sorry, I suck at using reddit and I think my text didn't post with the photos, so if that's the case, this is what I wrote with the original post: (edited:typo) Hey, I've dropped in on this page a little and thought maybe I'd go out on a limb and post. I don't know if iF is right for me and I can't afford a personal trainer so I guess I hope to gain some encouragement, advice, ideas, etc. I don't think I have a lot of weight to lose and I'm not new to fitness. I'm really just trying to slim down so I can actually see the hard work I put in! Mainly I'm dying to rid myself of the extra weight I carry around my trunk and ideally, I'd like to not lose my muscle in the process. I inadvertently discovered the basic idea of IF in a YouTube video about 6 years ago. The tuber didn't outright call it IF but she said she starts her eating at noon so she's able to cut out so many calories by reducing time spent eating. I mean, I know it's more nuanced than that. Anyway, for the better part of the past 6 years, I really held on to this idea and typically begin my eating at noon, with one significant caveat: I always drink coffee, at least a couple cups, and I don't drink it black (half and half). Could this really be what sets me back? Recently I stumbled across Lean Gains and realized how wrong I had been approaching this whole thing. But here's where it gets a little more tricky for me in my specific situation. My schedule is whack. I do intense exercise, circus acrobatics and things like that. I train mainly in the evenings, usually around 6pm and a lot of nights until 9. Sometimes in the AM on weekends. It's a little all over. There is no way I can eat dinner first. I cannot eat within a few hours of training as I have GERD/ chronic heartburn, and other problems that make training with any food in my stomach unbearably uncomfortable (I am upside down and get my stomach squeezed a lot in my training.) When I finish training at 9pm, I'm so hungry for dinner. By the time I get home and cook from scratch, I usually don't end up eating until 10 at least. I was thinking aiming for 14/10 would be achievable but most days it's a struggle for me to go 12 hours fasting - and that's even with a couple cups of coffee with half and half so I'm already "cheating." I also want to point out that I eat pretty healthy, vegetarian and no soda or junk food except I love sweets, though I try very hard to keep it in moderation. I admit however I do not count calories and ideally I would keep it that way. So idk, I feel a bit overwhelmed by this whole thing. I just want to get into a good habit/ perhaps lifestyle change that helps me reach my goal and doesn't feel like a constant battle. When I put my mind to something, I'm good at staying strong. However, I tend to get easily discouraged if I feel like I'm not getting anywhere. Thanks.
IF works for 2 reasons. The first is pretty easy to understand, skip a meal you'll generally eat less calories. But the bigger reason is your insulin response. When you consume any calories you spike insulin. Carbs spike it more, refined sugars spike it on steroids. By letting your body not consume calories you lower your insulin, when you have low insulin your body uses body fat for energy. So when you drink that coffee you tell your body stop using fat, I'm going to give you energy through eating now. But waiting longer your body will happily use body fat for energy. So mostly stop thinking about food and think about insulin. If you're walking around at 18 hours fast you're 100% using energy from inside your body. And your body loves using that energy, so you do typically feel better. It's not proper to say calories don't matter, they do but it's good to understand they're just part of a bigger puzzle, and insulin is what really tells your body how to function energy wise.
Ah-ha, this is the info I'm looking for. Thank you for putting it into perspective like that. So for those saying they allow a little cream in their coffee, is it some other factor aside from the insulin that's working for them?
Fat barely has an insulin response when you eat it. That's why keto became a thing, if you only eat fat and protein you don't leave fat burn mode as much as carbs do. So if you need a dash of cream to keep you going it's not going to ruin the fast but ideally no calories create the best case scenario. But if that dash of cream keeps you fasted otherwise for another 4 plus hours you're still ahead of the game.
I read that as "a dish of cream" lol, confirmation bias! Ok, this is really interesting. I feel like I have a much better understanding of the whole concept.
Maybe not a dish lol but I totally get it, it's fascinating and when you deep dive into hormones things actually make more sense. The body doesn't really care about the energy source, we are super adapted to eat whatever and get what we can from it. But in this age of plenty it requires more work to keep healthy. Ben Bickmen has tons of his research online and I really enjoy his stuff.
>For those wondering if their morning cup of joe is safe to drink, it likely is. > >One 2021 study that looked at the effects of coffee on insulin resistance and sensitivity found that “long-term caffeinated or decaffeinated coffee consumption does not negatively affect insulin resistance or sensitivity.” Researchers added that “there is no need to restrict coffee intake in [those with diabetes and prediabetes] for fear of insulin resistance.” Source: https://diatribe.org/diet-and-nutrition/does-caffeine-affect-blood-sugar# (and also chatGPT) Looking more into it, it seems to be complicated. >If you have diabetes, caffeine might affect the way your body uses insulin. And that could lead to higher or lower blood sugar. For some people with diabetes, about 200 milligrams of caffeine can cause this change. For others, it may have no significant effect on blood sugar. > >Caffeine affects each person differently. If you have diabetes or if you find it hard to control your blood sugar, limiting the amount of caffeine in your diet might be helpful. Talk to a member of your healthcare team if you have questions or concerns about caffeine. Source: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/type-2-diabetes/expert-answers/blood-sugar/faq-20057941
Adding on to this excellent comment that you might track your protein consumption too if you’re worried about losing muscle. I don’t know your needs but I aim for 105 g of protein per day and I’m 5’6 and moderately active. It’s surprisingly hard to get that much without trying pretty hard.
IF lends itself to routine, so if you don’t have a routine it’s going to be difficult. But it sounds like you should at least shift your eating window later in the day to accommodate the usually-later workouts. Eating between 1-11pm gives a 14/10 schedule that might work better for your needs. Cream in coffee isn’t ideal, but that’s how I did it for a couple years and I still saw significant benefits (similar to you, I didn’t have much weight to lose). Ultimately it’s not that hard to get used to black coffee if you’ve already cut out sweeteners. It can take a little while but I’m really glad I made a concerted effort to switch to black coffee. In your case you need to be careful to identify when the feeling of hunger indicates that you really need food or whether your body is just habitualized to eating at certain times/contexts. A 12 hour fast isn’t really a fast, so if you’re struggling to get through it, it could just be your body’s protest to change or it could be because you are very active and need food to recover properly. My partner does endurance cycling and his IF routine needs to take a backseat when he’s recovering. You shouldn’t need to count calories or cut the cream from your coffee at this point but you definitely need to actually fast for IF to work. 14 hours is a good starting goal (16 hours is better) and it’s going to feel bad getting there bc the body will protest at the change. It helped me to realize that nothing actually bad is going to happen if I don’t eat, no matter how bad it feels. My body can survive days without food if it needs to, 16 hours is nothing. That being said, be safe, use electrolytes during your fasting window, and don’t push yourself if you are experiencing very low blood sugar.
Thank you so much, this was super helpful and encouraging!
I also suffer from GERD and live for coffee. I reluctantly switched to cold brew 2 years ago because of the reduced acid and now I can't imagine going back to hot coffee. I make it at home by the gallon and my heartburn has significantly decreased. I found it far easier to go black with cold brew as well.
IMO it’s all about calories in/calories out. IF helps with weight loss because like you said, your eating window is smaller and you generally consume less food. I have gone from 275-252 in two months and still allow myself coffee with some creamer 4-5 days a week. So I would guess that coffee with a splash of half and half won’t set you back terribly if you’re just fasting for weight loss.
I'm so glad to hear of your progress without having to completely sacrifice coffee the way you like it!
To add. I do the same, I work out daily and am building kind of an athlete build. I have some coffee in the morning (iced, light oat milk) for a preworkout, and it hasnt hindered any progress. It's really about WHAT you're eating and how much. I naturally am eating whole and healthy foods, but I still have sweets here and there. I just do it in my window and am cognitive of how many calories Im eating. Also, I dont eat carbs too much, so it's okay if I want that donut or dessert. Moderation is what I've really learned, and it's made eating those things so much better. Good luck!
Do you work out during fasting? I'm noticing some muscle loss since I've started IF.
I do! Workout mornings early generally, no later than 10am. I add HIIT and about 30-45 minutes on a bike at the end as well. I've seen muscle increase and build. My overall strength has gotten better. However, this could come down to genetics, maybe? Though I do use creatine, less than 5gs a day the past 3 weeks. I was still gaining muscle before then, I just wanted an extra little boost. I think your body will balance out. I also add a protein drink a day with the first meal. I should also mention I was a 4 sport athlete in HS and did powerlifting. I say that because I think it matters when building muscle, theres a base of muscle memory built up so I think its easier for me at first..I know in about a month I'll probably hit a plateau with IF too. Overall, also make sure you're getting as much protein as you can in the day. I think that will help
IF helped grow my love for just black coffee.
I totally get not wanting to track calories, food intake etc. obviously it’s a pain in the butt. I will say that you might consider it, if even for the short term. You obviously train a lot, and eat healthy. It seems like regardless of the individual plan (IF, keto, carnivore etc) some people (including me) struggle with that final 5% “fine tuning”. Usually that’s exactly what it is…. Fine tuning. It could mean changing/adding exercises to break a plateau or slightly altering your diet. Either way, if all else fails consider a change for a few weeks. If you go the exercise route, consider body weight calisthenics (tons of you tube info routines) if you go the diet route consider a macro app for a few weeks, just to see what your current weekly intake shows. It can be eye opening when you see what a day/ week looks like in terms of protein, fat and carbs. I wouldn’t want to do it forever but it helped me see that I was a lot lower in overall protein than I thought…. Found a good plant based protein + collagen as a daily supplement!
You hit the nail on the head. I wish I could change the title to "can IF help me fine tune"! I'm curious which macro app you might recommend? I could use some eye opening, my fear is just that once I start tracking everything I eat I'll be driven to the brink of insanity by it!
I’ve been using My Fitness Pal. Initially I tried to find a free app, which several claim to be, but then most of the useful features require payment. This one was recommended to me and so I bit the bullet and paid for it. It’s tedious but you can save foods you eat often, can scan bar codes on packed foods.
After I saw the pictures of OP, I thought she was here to help me. Your fitness is admirable and I hope you find the help you need. One thing that has helped to endure intense workouts is to eat a good amount of protein an hour before but my workouts are generally within my eating window.
That's very sweet, thank you! And now I see how my headline could be misleading, lol. I could certainly someone get in shape, but sadly I'm crap at, as another Redditor very succinctly put it, "fine tuning." Hence why I'm looking to IF! :)
Are you able to ask other circus people how they got so fit? They might be able to share their own knowledge in this specific case.
There are a lot of different body types that do circus at all levels.
Way to go! I love your commitment to wearing the same socks!