"Upgrade to the latest & greatest when it comes out".
Says the Guy with a 13" Intel Core Duo Macbook Pro that is over 10 years old :)
Hoping & praying that the 32" iMac comes next year.
Edit:
If it does i'll definitely be using it for 10 years.
This. Yes. Their security features (bricking machines). The way they withhold features. The way they say a perfectly good and powerful computer is obsolete and unsupported. Thank God for Linux. I’m making the switch.
What security measures brick iOS devices? Withholding features keeps the devices from being slowed down to the point of usable. That used to be a big contention with users.
If you have a family member pass and you inherit their computer, if you don’t have the passcode and they didn’t keep their records as most don’t, Apple will not unlock it. Period. Their photos and all that are gone. Business liquidations, academic returns- anything legal that just so happens to not come with a password… bricked by T2. Per policy, they won’t help you if you show legal purchase. These are all ways they sell more Macs- by keeping old ones off the market. I legitimately purchased a business liquidated computer at an auction. Like a real one with a real live auction company that was also selling the desks and chairs, etc. And Apple told me to piss off.
Opensuse runs better on older computers than macOS or windows. I purchased a large number of computers and one was a 2013 iMac. It ran like shit, slower than molasses. I put opensuse slow roll on it and now it’s comparable to my m1 studio on single core tasks. Hands down and far and away, Linux is amazing. I put fedora kinoite on a couple newer ones (2019) and now they are immutable- highly bug/crash resistant. They do every single thing I ask of them. And all the free programs that are as good as the corporate versions? Hell yes. And the fact that you can talk with the actual developers on their forums and help out, make suggestions, etc. And best of all, no ecosystem attached to you like a ball and chain.
do you need stage manager to just connect it? i though that works regardless of the ios version. my ipad pro 2018 has stage manager but only mirrors the screen in 4:3 aspect ratio
Yeah, I know. I was highlighting that my mini is not an older model, inasmuch as it's the current generation iPad mini. It's a £650 iPad that has feature parity with the larger £500 iPad.
For once I actually think this isn’t an intentional nerf. The usb-c on the IPad Air 4 isn’t thunderbolt and thus doesn’t support display over USB-C. The external display adapter Apple provides is basically a capture device, not a separate video output.
Correct me if I’m wrong but the A12 IPad pros don’t have thunderbolt either but can handle another display using spaces (or whatever it’s called). Also someone on this sub used trollstore (quasi jailbreak/root access) to enable this on his air 4.
Unfortunately no, I saw a YouTube video yesterday but I watched it in the Reddit app so it’s not in my watch history. Pretty sure it was from somewhere further down in this thread though.
Since it is mirroring the iPad screen, it has to support DisplayPort over usb c or else the monitor would appear blank when connected.
I would almost bet money on the issue being the limited memory in the iPad Air 4. The Air 4 only has 4gb of memory which severely limits what it can do.
You don't need thunderbolt for display over usb c. All the samsung flagships since 2018 have basic USB 3 5Gbps and can run 3440x1440p ultrawide monitors and their tablet display simultaneously.
This is just apple locking a feature unless you pay.
People are so weird with brands, if it’s a brand they hate they never want it to get better or compete, if it’s a brand they love they overlook any issues and pretend that it has no problems.
*Lmao why are you getting downvoted* - It’s because people are just stupid on Reddit. You get downvoted for practically anything. 🤷♂️That’s the one thing I thing I noticed after starting to use Reddit full time last year, the pettiness people had.
AI is locked in M Chip, and Externa displays as well. Can someone tell me why? Logically speaking A chips can handle these two with no compromises. Their Ipad chips are powerful enough for the Ipad os regardless if it's an M chip or not.
External displays are possible but with small amount of RAM, you cannot use on-device AI which has 3B parameters. None of the A series iPads have enough RAM for that. Worst M series iPad has 8 GB RAM.
Great so they make powerful chips capable enough, but because their decision to give out low ram we as a consumer get fcked. What a waste really, such a waste.
Apple fan Boys here comes the downvotes, I can already see it coming. You Apple fan Boys should know that 4GB of ram or lower in the years 2020 to 2024 would be ridiculous! 8GB of Ram should be the minimum nowadays.
[As this person just stated](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipad/s/6UzJELVaL0)
Computers have been able to run multi screens for decades with much less than 4gb ram...
Just like when they said a14 was not enough for stage manager, then apple magic it was, they just do not want to enable dual monitoring on the ipad.
I wish I hadn't been so keen to update my 6g mini to OS17 when I got it last September, because now there's no jailbreak for me to unlock anything useful. Might keep it on 17 and see what comes along.
I’m pretty sure the a12z in the 2020 pro has 7gb of ram. I might be wrong.
Correction Edit: 6gb of ram. 8 cores enabled over the 7 cores from the a12x (same chip, one more core enabled)
AI might be due to memory issues, which is fair.
External Display with Stage Manager? 100% software restriction to tier different models. Although some game apps may stutter on high res monitor, that could have been handled by limiting resolution depending on the model.
“logically speaking A chips can handle these two with no compromises” 😂 putting “logically speaking” in front of whatever you say after doesn’t just make it true. “logically speaking” that makes no sense because they’re two entirely different chip lines with different architectures, lanes, and buses for different things. The neural engine in iPhones stayed the same (in terms of cores) from the iPhone 11 till the 14 with very little improvement, the 15 Pro is the first phone to double that neural engine and be on a 3nm process so it makes a lot of sense why only 15 Pros get Apple Intelligence
Do you have black bars on the side? It technically works, mirroring your screen, but doesn’t take up the full screen real estate, or work as an external monitor. Only a mirror.
? No this is an aspect ratio issue? You can get it full screen using stage manager only otherwise it just where exactly what’s on your iPad display at the same as aspect ratio. I have an M2 iPad Pro that does this
That's what I meant by this...sure you can use a screen with the iPad but if you want to use Stage Manager you need an iPad with the M-Chip. Source: [https://support.apple.com/en-my/guide/ipad/ipadf1276cde/ipados](https://support.apple.com/en-my/guide/ipad/ipadf1276cde/ipados)
I use this option every day, but it’s annoying that an M chip iPad is necessary. My 2018 iPad Pro, which was still plenty fast, wasn’t compatible. Now, I connect my M4 iPad to my DualUp monitor and use it for almost everything on a daily basis.
Air 4 doesn't support proper external display support, only mirroring. It's limited to M series equipped iPads. Kinda sucks really
https://support.apple.com/en-us/guide/ipad/ipadf1276cde/ipados
I do not get why OP is being downvoted. This is ludicrous. You could extend screens with 1 GB RAM machines and Pentium processors waaay back when. There is no technical reason for the older iPads, which have decent processors and RAM, to be restricted in this d\*ckish manner.
There is no technical reason for this limitation. It is only an anti-consumer practice by apple to make you buy more iPads and MacBooks.
OP, I am with you on this. I have a 2020 iPad Pro and it is the worst purchase of my life because of Apple's BS like this. It is absolutely unusable for anything other than Netflix and light games.
I’m baffled tbh. I’m starting to see why Apple users are called cultish fanboys. I’m deep into the ecosystem and I’ve been an iPad user since the 3rd, updating regularly, but the truth is Apple has been deliberately undermining the iPad for a few years now. Old shitty windows laptops can extend to a monitor but this iPad can’t.
People wanna feel good about their m4 13 inch purchase and they hate seeing any criticism.
I have an Air 4 and I concur. I thought this was such bs when it was originally announced that the Air 4 wouldn’t have proper external monitor support. I don’t even give a fuck about stage manager but a couple years ago somebody got both features working on r/jailbreak on the Air 4– proving that the device is capable of it. Everybody saying oh the device doesn’t have the bandwidth to extend the display is flat out wrong. It’s been a lame ass move from Apple since day one.
I’d wager that 90% of what Apple claims is hardware-dependent isn’t at all. Apple’s entire strategy has and always will be an insane lockdown walled garden until the day they die. It’s the Apple way.
Yeah, the cultishness is not necessary. Simply put, Apple’s genius is in devising a way to make a profit from the iPad while only satisfying a tiny sliver of the billions of folks in the world. Because of this, they could sell a year’s supply of 50-60 million iPads to a completely different group of 60 million people each year for 133 years (if they needed to. They don’t, but this is just how unimportant current iPad owners are)! And, since half of the iPads sold go to folks new to Apple every year, they don’t even have to make sure that ALL the folks that currently own iPads are happy enough to buy iPads this year… 25-30 million will go to new users and they only have to get a tiny percentage of the over 600 million folks that currently own iPads to purchase the other 25-30 million. If it feels like Apple doesn’t place a lot of priority on delighting ALL the folks that currently own iPads, there’s a very good reason for that. They don’t *have* to.
So, for anyone that buys an iPad today, there’s no guarantee that Apple will ever make another iPad that they’ll want to buy ever again.
> Old shitty windows laptops can extend to a monitor but this iPad can’t.
The 2014 Mac mini I use at work has a 2.6ghz dual core i5 and a built in Intel Iris GPU. It's currently showing me stuff on two displays.
My 6th gen iPad mini (which is still the current gen iPad mini) has an A15 Bionic, which Wikipedia tells me is a 2.9ghz, six core CPU with a 5 core GPU. This can only mirror to a single display at its own resolution.
🤷🏻♂️
As an Android fanboy, who now uses both Android/Windows and Mac/iOS/iPadOS, this is why my stereotype of the average Apple consumer has never changed. Still like the products though, although the iPad is very frustrating (ironically I prefer my galaxy tab S8U).
They're a bit sore at the moment because they all went out and bought M4 iPads and then Apple owned them really badly with the most underwhelming update in the history of software.
Here’s the thing, as “cultish” as we are, we still love the stuff that Apple gives. All Apple users make fun and get mad over Apple bs, but they still have somethings that keeps us in. It’s a weird limbo.
> You could extend screens with 1 GB RAM machines and Pentium processors waaay back when.
And if we stick to tablets, 5 years old Galaxy Tab S and 10 years old Surface Pro could do that no problem.
Sorry I think I should have mentioned HDMI. I thought we were already in HDMI context but it seems not. The limitation is HDMI interface it seems. It seems from Google that it’s a purposeful limitation too. Not accidental. I think DP is possibly different; I don’t have any DP displays above 60 to hand I think. Only my LG DualUp and it’s 60Hz
But also; I read it’s a MacBook Air thing. The MacBook Pro I have granted has a dedicated HDMI port but it can do 40-120VRR on my LGC1 just fine. So wonder which M1 Mac platform you’re on?
Oh yeah you're right, should have factored that in. So USB-C supports several Alt-mode, including HDMI 1.4b (which is up to 4K/75Hz) and DisplayPort 2.0 (up to USB-C max bandwidth). Apple displays and premium displays uses Thunderbolt and almost no data rate limitations there.
Yep. So I think n it’s the 1.4b limitation.
It also means that 4K60 is absolutely ***terrible*** if you try and do HDR because you don’t have room for 10bits at 60Hz so it converts 10bit to 8bit colour and it looks like rainbow banding everywhere. It’s actually disgusting. I have to switch down to 24,25 or 30Hz to have room for 10bit HDR. Even 4:2:0 doesn’t leave enough room I think.
Anyway… it’s a silly (imo) limitation to put in there. Just leads to a terrible end user experience for no need really. The bandwidth is there so far as I can tell. The adapter works fine on a windows machine.
But I don’t let it ruin my day.
Just cutting through the (valid) criticism - there's a workaround app for this that was being used way before Apple added external monitor support.
Check out ShiftScreen - https://shiftscreen.app/index.html
Good luck trying to keep valid criticism up! All of us iPad lovers who are mad at Apple for not putting more attention into iPadOS get shit on by Apple fan boys who wear bamboozled by a shitty Calculator app.
In the reply you will either get that you shouldn’t have expected this from an iPad or that iPad will never be macOS even even if all you are asking is for for some minor details and attention
I came from the android/windows world last fall. As I say on these forums it’s mostly been a wash. Some good, some bad. Some things are great, some things Android and Windows did better. Mostly I’m just a guy trying to create and consume using tech products and not cheer for a team.
Same here. I'd say overall it's better, at least for my stress levels. There are a few things I wish I could still do, but it isn't a deal breaker.
Personally, I got tired of working a job all day long where I have to troubleshoot and fix technology, only to have to do that in my free time as well. Everything works, and I'm happy with that. I think the older I get, the less I want to experiment and tinker with tech and would rather just spend my time doing other things.
For me, the desire to tinker with tech is still there, but mission critical devices like my phone or work computer are the last places I wanna be doing that. So for those I use Apple, they make the best daily drivers on the market imo
I have an M2 12.9, really want the new keyboard because ‘esc’, but that’s not worth a $1000+ trade-up for new pencil, keyboard, iPad. Totally underwhelmed with new iPadOS, hopefully you’ll be able to disable all the AI crap, I can think on my own…
Get out. It is not as scary as it seems. I am writing this from an HP laptop and my phone is a mid-range Android. Both work perfectly and I do not miss Apple one bit.
I’ve actually helped folks with this. It wasn’t iPad, it was Mac Pro’s. And, when I helped them into different Windows systems that met their needs better, I was always dreading the day they’d contact me upset that the NEXT Mac Pro was exactly what they were waiting for, now I’d have to help them migrate back!
Fortunately for me, Apple never made a system they liked again and “not caring about Apple” has done a lot of good for their general disposition. Having gone through that, though, I’d say this to any Apple user. Are you content with the current state of how things are done? Not 100%, that’s likely impossible, but the things you don’t like, are they a source of continual irritation? If so, the chances are VERY high that the hope you’re holding that Apple will make those changes you want is not going to be fulfilled. The die has been cast they’ve shown where they’re headed and refusing to listen will just mean more of the same every year.
The ecosystem stuff is nice but it’s crazy how people call it a walled garden or a trap, for anything other than airpods or watch I don’t see anything that would prevent somebody from switching at all.
It’s a realist via optimist situation.
Realist - this device doesn’t support that thing, i did my research before buying and accepted it and purchased it anyway. Everyone should have done the same.
Optimist - this device is great, surely it will do that thing, why wouldn’t it do it? My old xyz device could after all.
With apple, the optimists tend to come to the forums and bitch, while the others defend the reality of the situation.
Both should keep quiet hehe.
I don't even have access to the god damned calculator app on my iPads, I can't tell you how many times I ran into problems because of it. Felt like a neanderthal using a search engine to do math
You didn’t pay enough, so apple says no. Just like how i didn’t buy a new one, so my a10**x** (4gb ram) ipad pro is being dropped, while the a10 (3gb ram) ipad 7th gen isn’t.
Your device is 100% capable of it i bet too. apple just says no, and we get fucked.
Yeah the M series iPads have it. This is an older model running on one of the A series phone chips. They just didn’t design them with external monitor support back then.
It’s just a generic keyboard I got from Amazon to test this set up. Wouldn’t recommend for serious use:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07K6MGLDL/ref=ppx_yo_tab_ap_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The way external monitors work with pre-M iPads, was the reason I got Mac mini m2 after 4 years of exclusively using iPad Pro for work and personal things. I got new 4K monitor for PS5 and wanted to connect iPad Pro 2018 too…
That sucks, I’m sorry it doesn’t work. Just because it’s not an M series iPad I really can’t see why it wouldn’t work. The 4th gen Air is far more powerful that a lot of mid level laptops from a few years ago. Just more silly restrictions to protect the experience.
Apple’s 1984 marketing campaign was one of the most brilliant schemes ever developed. And this is partially due to how accurately it predicted the future. Unfortunately, they were describing a world where they are the dictatorial authoritarian “machine.” They ought to have Putin, Xi, and Trump on their board. Hell, maybe they are.
Apple: “it just works…. As long as you keep upgrading every few years and no you can’t do what want until we decide it’s time for you to pay us to do it.”
You can unlock it with a jailbreak and supposedly it works just fine. The truth is Apple just wants to sell new iPads, we all know it, and I am not even mad, Apple wants to make money, new iPads are shiny and fast, why not. But there is no reason to be in denial about the fact Apple wants us to abandon working older devices in favor of giving them more money for new ones. Anyone who does not like this business practice should move on and not buy Apple products. Apple won't change.
I had an iPhone and iPad already, plus I wanted to get into swift development. I figured if I need windows I can just dual boot it on the Mac. Much more seamless experience
You’ll be disappointed when you find out you can no longer double boot on M-series Macs (I know I was). But I use Whisky to run windows apps I need and it works better than Parallels IMO.
The M chip seems like a powerhouse. It's just too bad the software doesn't allow much of those powers to show. I think the Ipad would be a no-brainer if they just improves their software, app optimization (like Instagram is a nightmare) and made their desktop mode more professional (stage manager feels like something that would come on a kids tablet)
The one thing that uses a good amount of CPU on my M2 pro is having a lot of digital instruments and audio effects going in real time. With the Audio Unit system you can get a lot going in not much time - iPad-as-instrument isn't discussed nearly as much as I think it should be, tech news rooms tend to use video editors and visual folks, but honestly with the AUM app and a lot of midi, synths, and effects, getting multitrack audio in going... you can push the M series to its limits on iPad. AND!! AUv3 units already appear in their own little windows in GarageBand or whatever, long before Stage Manager, they're able to resize just fine? I digress...
OF COURSE, exporting/managing audio files and working with copy/pasted audio between apps is a cludgy mess, getting stuff on an SD card using Files super sucks, Files sucks in general - but record the sounds externally and you kind of avoid that problem, but I wish that it was as easy as Finder.
Honestly. Finder and Terminal. Get those for me on iPad and I'm a happy camper.
New on device Siri intelligence in iOS 18.
New games that require iPad with M chip.
And then the features like enough memory for the multi stage display and there are a few other things here and there but I’ve not looked at them all because I’m not an iPad-er at the moment.
This is true, there is no scaling or anything so things will look as big as they do on an iPad just more of it. You will realize also that the vast majority of apps will be gimped for any useful usage. When I got my iPad M1 I tried to use it as my only computer with an external monitor, and it only lasted about a day.
The issue is that they write the drivers for specific platforms. So they didn't bother to bring external display to anything that doesn't have an M-series chip.
Sure thing!
From top left to bottom right:
[Sofa](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/sofa-downtime-organizer/id1276554886) app (add movies/shows/books/games you’re planning on consuming. Kind of like a read later app but for media
[Bleacher Report](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/bleacher-report-sports-news/id418075935) app for scores
Apple Podcasts
Apple Weather
Apple battery widget
Apple calendar widget
[Flipboard](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/flipboard-the-social-magazine/id358801284) for news, comes with nice widgets
Apple TV
I mean used to own a 2018 iPad Pro and that did the same thing. My new M1 iPad Pro does extend to my other monitor. Maybe it’s just an M series supported feature much like how certain apps only work on those M chip models eg Davinci Resolve.
No, I gave up on ipad long time ago. Unless it's really just to draw something (1% of usage) or content consumption (kids on sofa), or maybe gaming.
it's not worth it.
I’m old enough to remember when it took a dedicated graphics card the size of a brick to drive a high res monitor. Now we’re whining about a device resembling a piece of paper can’t do everything we demand.
After iOS 17 some app won’t change to 16:9 aspect ratio. It’s sucks. Youtube was able to do that before.
Edit: by the way using the first party Apple display adapter or usb-c to usb-c connect will make the display fill the empty void so I heard.
Apple never sold this model with the ability to use an extended display. It’s like me being mad that my gas only power car can’t be charged up at a Tesla supercharger. Buy what you need and stop with the fake drama please.
Op do you have a mouse that you use for this setup? Or is it just the Apple Pencil? Just curious as I’ve been thinking about doing something like this.
It’s just a generic keyboard I got from Amazon to test this set up. Wouldn’t recommend for serious use:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07K6MGLDL/ref=ppx_yo_tab_ap_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Apple wants you to have the courage to buy their latest devices. I don’t know why people don’t get this at yet. They want you upgrading as often as possible.
“2024 and I can’t extend my iPad screen” brother it doesn’t matter what year it is now when the iPad your using is from 2020 and uses an iPhone 12 chip…
ProTip:
Even if you connect your M-series iPads to external monitor that can output 120Hz or more signal, the external display will just run at 60Hz.
LOL
Throughout my life, I exclusively used only jailbroken iPhones coupled with whatever macbook. Never in my life have I owned that pos oversized phone with a mobile os and idk how apple is even managing to sell them. Baffles me why anyone would willingly buy them.
I love my iPad as I have the basic 9th generation that does what I expect it to do. I do plan on learning how to do more with it to get even more value but for now it's pretty doggone good.
I was really happy with my iPad 3 before this one and ran it for a very long time.
The pros can do some pretty impressive video work, especially if you don't use the built in camera (which is good, but the pad itself can support much better video). They are impressive in a lot of ways and tasks. I do love mine, and i give them credit for their hardware.
And that comes from somone growing in anti-apple sentiments... just like their business model and marketing. The way that they brick perfectly good legally purchased computers and call it security... no it's "give us money for a new one." Their totalitarian ecosystem and App Store. Not supporting computers when they can run the current OS just fine (try opencore and see for yourself)... Just all of it. Years of putting up with having to do without a lot of cool things for the "it just works" aspect- which was true back in the day. Today they are a corporate monster whose sole purpose is to get as much out of it's customers as it can.
Oh wow, that was a tangent. Yeah, I gotta just be as much Linux as I can be.
External monitors only work with M-Chips....
Apple is so terrible when it comes to compatibility
Everything works together seamlessly! ..so long as you only buy OUR stuff
buy the newest stuff*
"Upgrade to the latest & greatest when it comes out". Says the Guy with a 13" Intel Core Duo Macbook Pro that is over 10 years old :) Hoping & praying that the 32" iMac comes next year. Edit: If it does i'll definitely be using it for 10 years.
True that
Sometimes that doesn’t even cut it
This. Yes. Their security features (bricking machines). The way they withhold features. The way they say a perfectly good and powerful computer is obsolete and unsupported. Thank God for Linux. I’m making the switch.
What security measures brick iOS devices? Withholding features keeps the devices from being slowed down to the point of usable. That used to be a big contention with users.
If you have a family member pass and you inherit their computer, if you don’t have the passcode and they didn’t keep their records as most don’t, Apple will not unlock it. Period. Their photos and all that are gone. Business liquidations, academic returns- anything legal that just so happens to not come with a password… bricked by T2. Per policy, they won’t help you if you show legal purchase. These are all ways they sell more Macs- by keeping old ones off the market. I legitimately purchased a business liquidated computer at an auction. Like a real one with a real live auction company that was also selling the desks and chairs, etc. And Apple told me to piss off.
I was with you until you said Linux tbh hahaha 😂
Opensuse runs better on older computers than macOS or windows. I purchased a large number of computers and one was a 2013 iMac. It ran like shit, slower than molasses. I put opensuse slow roll on it and now it’s comparable to my m1 studio on single core tasks. Hands down and far and away, Linux is amazing. I put fedora kinoite on a couple newer ones (2019) and now they are immutable- highly bug/crash resistant. They do every single thing I ask of them. And all the free programs that are as good as the corporate versions? Hell yes. And the fact that you can talk with the actual developers on their forums and help out, make suggestions, etc. And best of all, no ecosystem attached to you like a ball and chain.
Wait, are you actually saying that I can't just plug in a normal monitor and use that?
u can on the older models but it just mirrors and u cant scale it to the proper aspect ratio and such
> older models *stares at his mini6 that's the current generation iPad mini and doesn't support Stage Manger*
do you need stage manager to just connect it? i though that works regardless of the ios version. my ipad pro 2018 has stage manager but only mirrors the screen in 4:3 aspect ratio
I can connect it, but it only mirrors in 4:3. And doesn't support Stage Manager in any way.
yeah thats what mine does too, thats what i meant with "you can but.."
Yeah, I know. I was highlighting that my mini is not an older model, inasmuch as it's the current generation iPad mini. It's a £650 iPad that has feature parity with the larger £500 iPad.
Fr
*latest* stuff
Such a d\*ck move by Apple. I do imagine someone in Apple's office reading this thread and being all like "because f you, that's why"
For once I actually think this isn’t an intentional nerf. The usb-c on the IPad Air 4 isn’t thunderbolt and thus doesn’t support display over USB-C. The external display adapter Apple provides is basically a capture device, not a separate video output.
Correct me if I’m wrong but the A12 IPad pros don’t have thunderbolt either but can handle another display using spaces (or whatever it’s called). Also someone on this sub used trollstore (quasi jailbreak/root access) to enable this on his air 4.
I think the jailbreak method was over AirPlay so port restrictions wouldn’t have been an issue for that hack. Not sure about the A12 iPad pros though.
Do you have any info about the airplay thing? I have an air 4 with trollstore and would love to use the monitor separately!
Unfortunately no, I saw a YouTube video yesterday but I watched it in the Reddit app so it’s not in my watch history. Pretty sure it was from somewhere further down in this thread though.
Since it is mirroring the iPad screen, it has to support DisplayPort over usb c or else the monitor would appear blank when connected. I would almost bet money on the issue being the limited memory in the iPad Air 4. The Air 4 only has 4gb of memory which severely limits what it can do.
You don't need thunderbolt for display over usb c. All the samsung flagships since 2018 have basic USB 3 5Gbps and can run 3440x1440p ultrawide monitors and their tablet display simultaneously. This is just apple locking a feature unless you pay.
Lmao why are you getting downvoted
It's an Apple fan subreddit
People are so weird with brands, if it’s a brand they hate they never want it to get better or compete, if it’s a brand they love they overlook any issues and pretend that it has no problems.
The power of branding. It stops you from thinking logically.
Honestly that’s just people about anything.
1000% true in any Apple subreddit.
Also weird though that people expect Apple to do everything they want it to do if other companies do it.
*Lmao why are you getting downvoted* - It’s because people are just stupid on Reddit. You get downvoted for practically anything. 🤷♂️That’s the one thing I thing I noticed after starting to use Reddit full time last year, the pettiness people had.
AI is locked in M Chip, and Externa displays as well. Can someone tell me why? Logically speaking A chips can handle these two with no compromises. Their Ipad chips are powerful enough for the Ipad os regardless if it's an M chip or not.
External displays are possible but with small amount of RAM, you cannot use on-device AI which has 3B parameters. None of the A series iPads have enough RAM for that. Worst M series iPad has 8 GB RAM.
Great so they make powerful chips capable enough, but because their decision to give out low ram we as a consumer get fcked. What a waste really, such a waste. Apple fan Boys here comes the downvotes, I can already see it coming. You Apple fan Boys should know that 4GB of ram or lower in the years 2020 to 2024 would be ridiculous! 8GB of Ram should be the minimum nowadays. [As this person just stated](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipad/s/6UzJELVaL0)
There’s speculation that this is the reason why only iPhone 15 pro got ai - RAM.
Computers have been able to run multi screens for decades with much less than 4gb ram... Just like when they said a14 was not enough for stage manager, then apple magic it was, they just do not want to enable dual monitoring on the ipad.
BS - I got a12 iPad with trollstore and have enabled external monitor support it works without any issues
I wish I hadn't been so keen to update my 6g mini to OS17 when I got it last September, because now there's no jailbreak for me to unlock anything useful. Might keep it on 17 and see what comes along.
I’m pretty sure the a12z in the 2020 pro has 7gb of ram. I might be wrong. Correction Edit: 6gb of ram. 8 cores enabled over the 7 cores from the a12x (same chip, one more core enabled)
AI might be due to memory issues, which is fair. External Display with Stage Manager? 100% software restriction to tier different models. Although some game apps may stutter on high res monitor, that could have been handled by limiting resolution depending on the model.
“logically speaking A chips can handle these two with no compromises” 😂 putting “logically speaking” in front of whatever you say after doesn’t just make it true. “logically speaking” that makes no sense because they’re two entirely different chip lines with different architectures, lanes, and buses for different things. The neural engine in iPhones stayed the same (in terms of cores) from the iPhone 11 till the 14 with very little improvement, the 15 Pro is the first phone to double that neural engine and be on a 3nm process so it makes a lot of sense why only 15 Pros get Apple Intelligence
Even with M-Chips it only works well with 16x9 monitors. My ultrawide has black-bars whenever I hook it up to my monitor
Mine doesn’t. My 34” ultrawide 1440p LG works great! Check your settings.
I tried looking at the settings but saw no options to change the resolution. Maybe it’s because my monitor is a 3440x1600.
Use a displayourt to usbc cable and you’ll get rod of the bars. I was using my m1 ipad pro with a 32:9 ultrawide and jt worked flawlessly
As others have said - it works on ultrawide monitors. My 38" 21:9 works fine either using USB-C to DP or using my CalDigit doc.
I have an iPad Air 4th gen and it works with an external display just fine. A14 chip. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_Air_(4th_generation)
Do you have black bars on the side? It technically works, mirroring your screen, but doesn’t take up the full screen real estate, or work as an external monitor. Only a mirror.
Yup. Mirrored screen. https://photos.app.goo.gl/xQrejYjX2YiKzfPY6
I wished I could have extended monitors with my 2018 iPad Pro but nope. It only mirrored it. Time to hop back to my Mac.
? No this is an aspect ratio issue? You can get it full screen using stage manager only otherwise it just where exactly what’s on your iPad display at the same as aspect ratio. I have an M2 iPad Pro that does this
That's what I meant by this...sure you can use a screen with the iPad but if you want to use Stage Manager you need an iPad with the M-Chip. Source: [https://support.apple.com/en-my/guide/ipad/ipadf1276cde/ipados](https://support.apple.com/en-my/guide/ipad/ipadf1276cde/ipados)
I use this option every day, but it’s annoying that an M chip iPad is necessary. My 2018 iPad Pro, which was still plenty fast, wasn’t compatible. Now, I connect my M4 iPad to my DualUp monitor and use it for almost everything on a daily basis.
Wait so you can use an M4 iPad with dual monitors and have 2 separate things open simultaneously? 😭 I just got my iPad a couple weeks ago too
Air 4 doesn't support proper external display support, only mirroring. It's limited to M series equipped iPads. Kinda sucks really https://support.apple.com/en-us/guide/ipad/ipadf1276cde/ipados
Happy cake day :)
I do not get why OP is being downvoted. This is ludicrous. You could extend screens with 1 GB RAM machines and Pentium processors waaay back when. There is no technical reason for the older iPads, which have decent processors and RAM, to be restricted in this d\*ckish manner. There is no technical reason for this limitation. It is only an anti-consumer practice by apple to make you buy more iPads and MacBooks. OP, I am with you on this. I have a 2020 iPad Pro and it is the worst purchase of my life because of Apple's BS like this. It is absolutely unusable for anything other than Netflix and light games.
I’m baffled tbh. I’m starting to see why Apple users are called cultish fanboys. I’m deep into the ecosystem and I’ve been an iPad user since the 3rd, updating regularly, but the truth is Apple has been deliberately undermining the iPad for a few years now. Old shitty windows laptops can extend to a monitor but this iPad can’t. People wanna feel good about their m4 13 inch purchase and they hate seeing any criticism.
I have an Air 4 and I concur. I thought this was such bs when it was originally announced that the Air 4 wouldn’t have proper external monitor support. I don’t even give a fuck about stage manager but a couple years ago somebody got both features working on r/jailbreak on the Air 4– proving that the device is capable of it. Everybody saying oh the device doesn’t have the bandwidth to extend the display is flat out wrong. It’s been a lame ass move from Apple since day one.
I’d wager that 90% of what Apple claims is hardware-dependent isn’t at all. Apple’s entire strategy has and always will be an insane lockdown walled garden until the day they die. It’s the Apple way.
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Yeah, the cultishness is not necessary. Simply put, Apple’s genius is in devising a way to make a profit from the iPad while only satisfying a tiny sliver of the billions of folks in the world. Because of this, they could sell a year’s supply of 50-60 million iPads to a completely different group of 60 million people each year for 133 years (if they needed to. They don’t, but this is just how unimportant current iPad owners are)! And, since half of the iPads sold go to folks new to Apple every year, they don’t even have to make sure that ALL the folks that currently own iPads are happy enough to buy iPads this year… 25-30 million will go to new users and they only have to get a tiny percentage of the over 600 million folks that currently own iPads to purchase the other 25-30 million. If it feels like Apple doesn’t place a lot of priority on delighting ALL the folks that currently own iPads, there’s a very good reason for that. They don’t *have* to. So, for anyone that buys an iPad today, there’s no guarantee that Apple will ever make another iPad that they’ll want to buy ever again.
Very well put. They simply have no need to make current customers happy.
> Old shitty windows laptops can extend to a monitor but this iPad can’t. The 2014 Mac mini I use at work has a 2.6ghz dual core i5 and a built in Intel Iris GPU. It's currently showing me stuff on two displays. My 6th gen iPad mini (which is still the current gen iPad mini) has an A15 Bionic, which Wikipedia tells me is a 2.9ghz, six core CPU with a 5 core GPU. This can only mirror to a single display at its own resolution. 🤷🏻♂️
They’re shameless with their greed
As an Android fanboy, who now uses both Android/Windows and Mac/iOS/iPadOS, this is why my stereotype of the average Apple consumer has never changed. Still like the products though, although the iPad is very frustrating (ironically I prefer my galaxy tab S8U).
They're a bit sore at the moment because they all went out and bought M4 iPads and then Apple owned them really badly with the most underwhelming update in the history of software.
Here’s the thing, as “cultish” as we are, we still love the stuff that Apple gives. All Apple users make fun and get mad over Apple bs, but they still have somethings that keeps us in. It’s a weird limbo.
Fanboyism is really annoying. I can feel you
> You could extend screens with 1 GB RAM machines and Pentium processors waaay back when. And if we stick to tablets, 5 years old Galaxy Tab S and 10 years old Surface Pro could do that no problem.
If we expand it to portable devices, you can connect a Game Boy Advanced from 2001 to a TV with an HDMI link cable.
Fr
>Are you serious I had this moment when I hooked my M4 iPad up to my Monitor and figured out that external Monitors are limited to 60hz.
No idea why they don’t allow higher refresh rates. Extremely disappointed
M2 MacBook Air also limited over USB-C in this regard too. 4K60 is all it’s allowed I believe. Won’t allow over 60 on any setting.
M1 Mac, 4K/144Hz VRR via USB-C to DisplayPort cable.
Sorry I think I should have mentioned HDMI. I thought we were already in HDMI context but it seems not. The limitation is HDMI interface it seems. It seems from Google that it’s a purposeful limitation too. Not accidental. I think DP is possibly different; I don’t have any DP displays above 60 to hand I think. Only my LG DualUp and it’s 60Hz But also; I read it’s a MacBook Air thing. The MacBook Pro I have granted has a dedicated HDMI port but it can do 40-120VRR on my LGC1 just fine. So wonder which M1 Mac platform you’re on?
Oh yeah you're right, should have factored that in. So USB-C supports several Alt-mode, including HDMI 1.4b (which is up to 4K/75Hz) and DisplayPort 2.0 (up to USB-C max bandwidth). Apple displays and premium displays uses Thunderbolt and almost no data rate limitations there.
Yep. So I think n it’s the 1.4b limitation. It also means that 4K60 is absolutely ***terrible*** if you try and do HDR because you don’t have room for 10bits at 60Hz so it converts 10bit to 8bit colour and it looks like rainbow banding everywhere. It’s actually disgusting. I have to switch down to 24,25 or 30Hz to have room for 10bit HDR. Even 4:2:0 doesn’t leave enough room I think. Anyway… it’s a silly (imo) limitation to put in there. Just leads to a terrible end user experience for no need really. The bandwidth is there so far as I can tell. The adapter works fine on a windows machine. But I don’t let it ruin my day.
Apple is ridiculous.
"And this isn't even my final form."
Just cutting through the (valid) criticism - there's a workaround app for this that was being used way before Apple added external monitor support. Check out ShiftScreen - https://shiftscreen.app/index.html
Yeah for a proper use of your iPad as a (temporary) Desktop replacement, it must be M-series, otherwise it’s just a larger screen
Beautiful setup
Glorified iphone
Good luck trying to keep valid criticism up! All of us iPad lovers who are mad at Apple for not putting more attention into iPadOS get shit on by Apple fan boys who wear bamboozled by a shitty Calculator app. In the reply you will either get that you shouldn’t have expected this from an iPad or that iPad will never be macOS even even if all you are asking is for for some minor details and attention
Yea I’m getting downvoted like crazy. I am deep into the ecosystem but some of the people in this thread are drunk on the koolaid.
I came from the android/windows world last fall. As I say on these forums it’s mostly been a wash. Some good, some bad. Some things are great, some things Android and Windows did better. Mostly I’m just a guy trying to create and consume using tech products and not cheer for a team.
Same here. I'd say overall it's better, at least for my stress levels. There are a few things I wish I could still do, but it isn't a deal breaker. Personally, I got tired of working a job all day long where I have to troubleshoot and fix technology, only to have to do that in my free time as well. Everything works, and I'm happy with that. I think the older I get, the less I want to experiment and tinker with tech and would rather just spend my time doing other things.
For me, the desire to tinker with tech is still there, but mission critical devices like my phone or work computer are the last places I wanna be doing that. So for those I use Apple, they make the best daily drivers on the market imo
I have an M2 12.9, really want the new keyboard because ‘esc’, but that’s not worth a $1000+ trade-up for new pencil, keyboard, iPad. Totally underwhelmed with new iPadOS, hopefully you’ll be able to disable all the AI crap, I can think on my own…
You can rebind the globe button on the bottom left to esc. That’s what I did when I had the older pre m chip iPad and it was so much better.
I love how Apple it is that to upgrade your keyboard to include an 'esc' key would cost you the fat end of $2k. The shareholders love this.
Get out. It is not as scary as it seems. I am writing this from an HP laptop and my phone is a mid-range Android. Both work perfectly and I do not miss Apple one bit.
I’ve actually helped folks with this. It wasn’t iPad, it was Mac Pro’s. And, when I helped them into different Windows systems that met their needs better, I was always dreading the day they’d contact me upset that the NEXT Mac Pro was exactly what they were waiting for, now I’d have to help them migrate back! Fortunately for me, Apple never made a system they liked again and “not caring about Apple” has done a lot of good for their general disposition. Having gone through that, though, I’d say this to any Apple user. Are you content with the current state of how things are done? Not 100%, that’s likely impossible, but the things you don’t like, are they a source of continual irritation? If so, the chances are VERY high that the hope you’re holding that Apple will make those changes you want is not going to be fulfilled. The die has been cast they’ve shown where they’re headed and refusing to listen will just mean more of the same every year.
The ecosystem stuff is nice but it’s crazy how people call it a walled garden or a trap, for anything other than airpods or watch I don’t see anything that would prevent somebody from switching at all.
It’s a realist via optimist situation. Realist - this device doesn’t support that thing, i did my research before buying and accepted it and purchased it anyway. Everyone should have done the same. Optimist - this device is great, surely it will do that thing, why wouldn’t it do it? My old xyz device could after all. With apple, the optimists tend to come to the forums and bitch, while the others defend the reality of the situation. Both should keep quiet hehe.
Yeah I saw these downvotes lol like this is a genuine obnoxious situation and people dont seem to understand what empathy is
I don't even have access to the god damned calculator app on my iPads, I can't tell you how many times I ran into problems because of it. Felt like a neanderthal using a search engine to do math
iPad Pro M2 and up got true external monitor support, big reason for my recent upgrade to M4.
M1 too
You didn’t pay enough, so apple says no. Just like how i didn’t buy a new one, so my a10**x** (4gb ram) ipad pro is being dropped, while the a10 (3gb ram) ipad 7th gen isn’t. Your device is 100% capable of it i bet too. apple just says no, and we get fucked.
Mine does. Maybe it’s an iPad Pro thing? My M1 had it and my M4 has it.
Yeah the M series iPads have it. This is an older model running on one of the A series phone chips. They just didn’t design them with external monitor support back then.
What brand model keyboard is that?
It’s just a generic keyboard I got from Amazon to test this set up. Wouldn’t recommend for serious use: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07K6MGLDL/ref=ppx_yo_tab_ap_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The way external monitors work with pre-M iPads, was the reason I got Mac mini m2 after 4 years of exclusively using iPad Pro for work and personal things. I got new 4K monitor for PS5 and wanted to connect iPad Pro 2018 too…
That sucks, I’m sorry it doesn’t work. Just because it’s not an M series iPad I really can’t see why it wouldn’t work. The 4th gen Air is far more powerful that a lot of mid level laptops from a few years ago. Just more silly restrictions to protect the experience.
A cheapo raspberry pi has better external monitor support than Apples expensive iPads.
Seriously?
Apple’s 1984 marketing campaign was one of the most brilliant schemes ever developed. And this is partially due to how accurately it predicted the future. Unfortunately, they were describing a world where they are the dictatorial authoritarian “machine.” They ought to have Putin, Xi, and Trump on their board. Hell, maybe they are. Apple: “it just works…. As long as you keep upgrading every few years and no you can’t do what want until we decide it’s time for you to pay us to do it.”
You can unlock it with a jailbreak and supposedly it works just fine. The truth is Apple just wants to sell new iPads, we all know it, and I am not even mad, Apple wants to make money, new iPads are shiny and fast, why not. But there is no reason to be in denial about the fact Apple wants us to abandon working older devices in favor of giving them more money for new ones. Anyone who does not like this business practice should move on and not buy Apple products. Apple won't change.
Tbh, your not missing out on much. The M chip version is not anything to write home about.
That’s the reason I haven’t upgraded. If I can’t do anything different with an M chip then I don’t see a reason to upgrade
You can extend your screen 😜
Which I will stop needing to do when the new Mac gets delivered
Hey man, may I ask why you chose to get a Mac instead of a windows computer? Just wondering
I had an iPhone and iPad already, plus I wanted to get into swift development. I figured if I need windows I can just dual boot it on the Mac. Much more seamless experience
You’ll be disappointed when you find out you can no longer double boot on M-series Macs (I know I was). But I use Whisky to run windows apps I need and it works better than Parallels IMO.
The M chip seems like a powerhouse. It's just too bad the software doesn't allow much of those powers to show. I think the Ipad would be a no-brainer if they just improves their software, app optimization (like Instagram is a nightmare) and made their desktop mode more professional (stage manager feels like something that would come on a kids tablet)
The one thing that uses a good amount of CPU on my M2 pro is having a lot of digital instruments and audio effects going in real time. With the Audio Unit system you can get a lot going in not much time - iPad-as-instrument isn't discussed nearly as much as I think it should be, tech news rooms tend to use video editors and visual folks, but honestly with the AUM app and a lot of midi, synths, and effects, getting multitrack audio in going... you can push the M series to its limits on iPad. AND!! AUv3 units already appear in their own little windows in GarageBand or whatever, long before Stage Manager, they're able to resize just fine? I digress... OF COURSE, exporting/managing audio files and working with copy/pasted audio between apps is a cludgy mess, getting stuff on an SD card using Files super sucks, Files sucks in general - but record the sounds externally and you kind of avoid that problem, but I wish that it was as easy as Finder. Honestly. Finder and Terminal. Get those for me on iPad and I'm a happy camper.
New on device Siri intelligence in iOS 18. New games that require iPad with M chip. And then the features like enough memory for the multi stage display and there are a few other things here and there but I’ve not looked at them all because I’m not an iPad-er at the moment.
This is true, there is no scaling or anything so things will look as big as they do on an iPad just more of it. You will realize also that the vast majority of apps will be gimped for any useful usage. When I got my iPad M1 I tried to use it as my only computer with an external monitor, and it only lasted about a day.
You ain’t trying to make Genmoji’s homie?
This is one of the reasons I'd like the next Mini to have m-series cpu. Even a downclocked one, just for the feature set.
Use the Shiftscreen App. It’s what I use to get work done on my iPad mini.
Nah, you pay for it and it sucks
When was the last time you used it? It gets the job done very well for me working off of webapps.
you can use an app called Duet.
Is it paid
The issue is that they write the drivers for specific platforms. So they didn't bother to bring external display to anything that doesn't have an M-series chip.
That do be how it is
May i know these widgets, i would love to add these especially the one on the top left
Sure thing! From top left to bottom right: [Sofa](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/sofa-downtime-organizer/id1276554886) app (add movies/shows/books/games you’re planning on consuming. Kind of like a read later app but for media [Bleacher Report](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/bleacher-report-sports-news/id418075935) app for scores Apple Podcasts Apple Weather Apple battery widget Apple calendar widget [Flipboard](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/flipboard-the-social-magazine/id358801284) for news, comes with nice widgets Apple TV
Thank you
I mean used to own a 2018 iPad Pro and that did the same thing. My new M1 iPad Pro does extend to my other monitor. Maybe it’s just an M series supported feature much like how certain apps only work on those M chip models eg Davinci Resolve.
No, I gave up on ipad long time ago. Unless it's really just to draw something (1% of usage) or content consumption (kids on sofa), or maybe gaming. it's not worth it.
I have an M1 iPad and it also mirrors? What’s this about M series being able to have a separate display?
But it’s thin 😎
Extra pixels cost extra...
I’m old enough to remember when it took a dedicated graphics card the size of a brick to drive a high res monitor. Now we’re whining about a device resembling a piece of paper can’t do everything we demand.
After iOS 17 some app won’t change to 16:9 aspect ratio. It’s sucks. Youtube was able to do that before. Edit: by the way using the first party Apple display adapter or usb-c to usb-c connect will make the display fill the empty void so I heard.
I mean I get why you’re upset but you should’ve known this before buying it especially for such a big purchase. Just simple due diligence
If your iPadOS is low enough, you can jailbreak it and get external monitor enabled
The iPad team is all clowns who don’t know how to make a good product
Apple never sold this model with the ability to use an extended display. It’s like me being mad that my gas only power car can’t be charged up at a Tesla supercharger. Buy what you need and stop with the fake drama please.
Do you usually kiss that corporate ass or do you sometimes try to think on your own as well?
Op do you have a mouse that you use for this setup? Or is it just the Apple Pencil? Just curious as I’ve been thinking about doing something like this.
I do have a mouse, it just didn’t show up in the pic
My M1 Pro does this as well, until I turn on stage manager that is. No stage manager on air 4?
No, Apple didn’t think air 4 users deserved stage manager
Didn't they market iPad as a laptop replacement?
“What’s a computer?”
Apple should just remove ipados and put macos on the ipad
That backlight bleed tho
It’s from the blinds lol
Yeah boi
😂 yes
Turn on “Stage Manager” see if that helps.
How do you do this? I have the new iPad Air
I have the iPad connected to a dock which is connected to the monitor via hdmi
I didn’t even notice the hdmi until now! lol thanks
Do you have a mouse connected? Because you need a mouse and keyboard to use extended monitor. Just asking because I don't see one pictured.
I do have a mouse connected, just not visible in the pic
Mirror display…only m1 and up will give you external support…just sayin bro🤙
What keyboard is that? Looks clean
It’s just a generic keyboard I got from Amazon to test this set up. Wouldn’t recommend for serious use: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07K6MGLDL/ref=ppx_yo_tab_ap_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I’ve had this happen with my 2022 iPad Pro too is there a fix that I don’t know about?
Yours should be working fine. It’s got an M chip. Apple purposely excluded non M chip iPads from this feature .
If I can DM you I’ll show you how it looks when I connect an external monitor
Apple wants you to have the courage to buy their latest devices. I don’t know why people don’t get this at yet. They want you upgrading as often as possible.
I figure they are not share holders in tech.
What’s the widget that showed your list with movies?
It’s the [Sofa](https://apps.apple.com/app/id1276554886) app.
“2024 and I can’t extend my iPad screen” brother it doesn’t matter what year it is now when the iPad your using is from 2020 and uses an iPhone 12 chip…
ProTip: Even if you connect your M-series iPads to external monitor that can output 120Hz or more signal, the external display will just run at 60Hz. LOL
Throughout my life, I exclusively used only jailbroken iPhones coupled with whatever macbook. Never in my life have I owned that pos oversized phone with a mobile os and idk how apple is even managing to sell them. Baffles me why anyone would willingly buy them.
Got an iPad Air 5 and it works perfectly fine…
Only works on M1 iPads
[удалено]
Ipad and procreate are not the only options available for drawing, not even close.
[удалено]
Is this a serious question? Yes, yes there are loads.
Bu the book Apple's artificial feature limitations.
I think you are looking for r/applesucks I somewhat love my iPad, but it seems only good for reading books, reading webpages, and FaceTime.
I love my iPad as I have the basic 9th generation that does what I expect it to do. I do plan on learning how to do more with it to get even more value but for now it's pretty doggone good. I was really happy with my iPad 3 before this one and ran it for a very long time.
The pros can do some pretty impressive video work, especially if you don't use the built in camera (which is good, but the pad itself can support much better video). They are impressive in a lot of ways and tasks. I do love mine, and i give them credit for their hardware. And that comes from somone growing in anti-apple sentiments... just like their business model and marketing. The way that they brick perfectly good legally purchased computers and call it security... no it's "give us money for a new one." Their totalitarian ecosystem and App Store. Not supporting computers when they can run the current OS just fine (try opencore and see for yourself)... Just all of it. Years of putting up with having to do without a lot of cool things for the "it just works" aspect- which was true back in the day. Today they are a corporate monster whose sole purpose is to get as much out of it's customers as it can. Oh wow, that was a tangent. Yeah, I gotta just be as much Linux as I can be.