And if anyone thinks this is hyperbolic, remember what happened in 2013 with the EU Gender Equality legislation.
For those who don't, young males used to be charged multiple times what women were until the EU found it was open and shut gender discrimination, ruling that both need to be charged the same. Rather than aggregating between the old male and female price differences, overnight everyone basically got to pay the old (much, much higher) male prices. I worked in a car insurance call centre at the time (Aon) and nobody in the whole building was able to explain or justify it.
I can’t remember where I saw this system (Australia?). If I recall correctly, third party insurance is administered by the government and premiums built into fuel prices. You only pay an additional premium for comprehensive coverage.
Wonder if something like that is viable here.
It would, but having also worked in the AA previously back in 2011 I can also tell you they were massively loading the cost of peoples insurance simply for having lived outside the country in the last 12 months. That's another that I could never get a justification for from anyone else that worked there.
That’s just simply untrue. It’s a myth.
Average motor insurance premium at the start of 2011 was €567. Average premium in 2023 was €568
2011: https://www.thejournal.ie/drop-in-motor-insurance-premiums-in-2011-273176-Nov2011/
2023: https://www.centralbank.ie/news/article/press-release-central-bank-of-ireland-publishes-fifth-annual-private-motor-insurance-report-of-the-national-claims-information-database-13-dec-2023
Yeah I always think the insurance argument is BS 2011 to 2023 everything else has gone up exponentially but my premium hasnt changed much, although the business costs for insurers have to have gone up alot so to be fair the prices arnt going up with inflation so the insurers must be passing on some of the savings.
Prices have stayed more or less the same for drivers with a proven safe track record. The costs are passed to newer drivers as they can't justify someone driving for and paying insurance for 10 years with no incidents ever paying 1000€ and a new driver without experience and record paying 1500. So experienced ones have a relatively lower insurance, 500/800 and newer ones 2000€ and more. Obviously there are other variables but generally it works like that.
That's why I said 2000 or more for newer drivers. 2000€ being the minimum in some circumstances with only third party coverage and one of those black boxes. When me and my gf were with learner permit all insurances except one were asking 5000€+ for first insurance. Eventually insured it with 123GO , third party only and black box( paid 1900€ 1st year), had to stay 3 years like that. Now for 4th year paid 600€ comprehensive with AXA.
Ahh sorry I miss read. It’s mad what is being asking for. I’m just hoping I can try to negotiate once I get my N. Just feels if insurance is a requirement and they are not competing with each other the government should step in already..
Just out of curiosity, are you negotiating over email or phone? I'd suggest doing it face to face in one of their offices if you can, be nice and humble about it and they can do some magic and take off 100/200€ here and there, that if you're lucky and get an experiened employee. Last year my renewal for AXA was 1100 somehow. I went to to one of their offices and left there paying 600€ only, comprehensive.
I'm not sure if you have memory holed the huge price increases in the years immediately following the gender equality legislation, but from 2013 when it came in to 2017, motor insurance had risen 70%. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30747435.html
I remember this well because I worked in it. I remember the awkward calls with the guys I had told to think of hold off until after the new year and legislation as they might get a big drop, when their price was essentially the exact same. I remember the standard quotes for young female drives going from the €800-1100 give or take for the standard details, up to €1,800-2,100. I remember the panic attacks and tears they had on the phone to me when it was their only way to get to work/college/etc.
I remember fiddling around wherever I could to increase their excess, try the likes of XS Direct (previously more or less exclusively for use by is for 20 year old boy racers in Japanese import tye vehicles), and also warning these people of the risks of extremely high excesses and what different types of protection would entail if they wanted to move to stepback or even no bonus protection to try and be able to keep their job. And I remember having exactly zero answers to explain to them why it had gone up this much, and nobody in the office was able to answer why. 2914 was a fucking horrible start to the new year work wise because of this.
Yes they did increase prices they started hemorrhaging money, they lost 1.1 billion in those 4 years (despite the price raises). It had nothing to do with EU gender equality legislation.
https://www.insuranceireland.eu/news-and-publications/news-press-release/statement-on-insurance-ireland-s-2017-factfile-from-2013-2017-irish-insurers-made-underwriting-losses-of-1-1-billion-in-motor-an
The market also shrank significantly due to those losses
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1012/1410319-number-of-insurance-firms-here-down-39-since-2009/
It absolutely was not a case of them just flicking a switch and just pricing everyone at the higher rate ‘overnight’. They did aggregate it. Market conditions just led to gradual increases and despite them they still lost money
Edit in response to your edit: you worked for a broker, you didn’t underwrite. You sold other companies products. Regardless, the data doesn’t support your position at all
I just want third party insurance to be government provided :(, they still charge you, just the absolute minimum to break even.
Let the insurance companies compete with government prices and other offerings like tpft and full comprehensive but this shite of having to have insurance and then it costing so much you'd be better off just putting it in a bank account and just paying out of that when you get in a crash (unironically on average its like 10->15k)
The 3rd party bit is the most expensive bit of insurance. It makes no sense to have private industry only provide the difference. It would not be worth it for them.
When you get deep into risk analysis and look at several criteria, someone who wants comprehensive insurance is much less likely to get into an accident than someone who only wants 3rd party, so actuarially speaking the 3rd party insuree is a much greater risk so at times comp can be cheaper than 3rd party.
Risk management is my line of work.
>It makes no sense to have private industry only provide the difference. It would not be worth it for them.
This is a good thing. If companies are unable to provide a service people want, then they *should* die.
Also should the government be inefficient at providing affordable third party only insurance then the private sector can step in and *actually* reduce costs.
It genuinely shouldn't be that hard for the government, they have large reserves, they already have the administration and processes for tax discs the only thing they need to do is handle claims and risk analysis. Which in the beginning could be contracted out.
Why would you want a governamt scheme to cover 3rd party perils, but then expect the private industry to pick up the the rest?
I don’t mean to sound too rude, but you appear to have no idea how insurance actually works. Comp is not an ‘add on’ like breakdown, it’s a risk driver.
Anyway, you know as well as I do your stupid idea will never happen. So all is OK.
Because its legally required. Any service that is legally required should be affordable.
I don't think you fully understand. The government would be selling third party insurance, same as anyone else, they just aren't profit motivated. Private sector can still sell its current offerings. If its current offerings are uncompetitive then boohoo. If you believe in the private sectors ability to be competitive and are genuinely productive members of society then they should easily beat any offering the government could through sheer feats of efficiency. I mean, that's why most of the world uses capitalism right?
Also for your information I did work tangentially to insurance. Working on the systems that manage the quoting and lifecycle of policies, I had to sit through many a lecture on how insurance companies were planning on using new data analysis techniques to improve their earnings.
But I think it’s cheaper to shell out in one go there. We live in London and it’s an annual DD rather a monthly or quarterly one. We alwas go for the cheapest option, just like the insurers fuck you by 20% if you want to pay monthly.
> But I think it’s cheaper to shell out in one go there.
It's 5% dearer if you pay monthly by direct debit instead of yearly. In Ireland paying quarterly (there's no monthly option) depends on the band but it's usually between 10-13% more expensive than paying yearly.
What's galling is it's currently more expensive over the course of the year if you go for 3 or 6 month discs. They'd have to sort that as well so it's the same price overall regardless.
I remember one time reading that it wasn't mandatory in like Texas or some other wild west type place.
You have to prove that you have the money to cover the cost of a crash if you are found to be at fault.
There was some type of audit of your finances that needed to be done, but if you were rich enough you didn't have to have car insurance.
Of course I am not rich enough. Haha
The same rule applies in Ireland. You have to be able to demonstrate that you have the finances to cover yourself. But you'd have to be uber rich to do so
Afaik Dublin Bus don't have a policy with an insurance company as they state underwrites them.
Will the public be able to search for non-compliant cars like [https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/](https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/) and report to the Gardai after this is implemented? Or will the agencies just benefit from lower postage charges? Anything for the consumer?
Why would you need to report it? If it’s all in a database (it is) then the Gardai already know who’s out of date (they do) and they can check using your number plate (they can).
IMO, it would be good supplementary info when reporting (yes, I know they can check it themselves) alleged infringements to the Gardai using dashcam footage. r/irelandsshitedrivers is full of videos of idiots nearly killing people...anything to make the roads safer...
It's actually kind of essential that there is a public method of inputting a reg and getting back the make, tax, NCT and insurance status.
And it's perfectly GDPR compliant.
If it's the legal duty of the driver to ensure a vehicle is taxed and NCTed before driving it, then how else are the public supposed to do it without access to the database?
Great news and about time. I look forward to a nice reduction in NCT, insurance and motor tax charges due to the reduced administrative costs.
Yeah, it's going to be great when the insurance companies don't charge us all a new "technology fee".
And if anyone thinks this is hyperbolic, remember what happened in 2013 with the EU Gender Equality legislation. For those who don't, young males used to be charged multiple times what women were until the EU found it was open and shut gender discrimination, ruling that both need to be charged the same. Rather than aggregating between the old male and female price differences, overnight everyone basically got to pay the old (much, much higher) male prices. I worked in a car insurance call centre at the time (Aon) and nobody in the whole building was able to explain or justify it.
I can’t remember where I saw this system (Australia?). If I recall correctly, third party insurance is administered by the government and premiums built into fuel prices. You only pay an additional premium for comprehensive coverage. Wonder if something like that is viable here.
It would, but having also worked in the AA previously back in 2011 I can also tell you they were massively loading the cost of peoples insurance simply for having lived outside the country in the last 12 months. That's another that I could never get a justification for from anyone else that worked there.
So electric car drivers go free?
That’s just simply untrue. It’s a myth. Average motor insurance premium at the start of 2011 was €567. Average premium in 2023 was €568 2011: https://www.thejournal.ie/drop-in-motor-insurance-premiums-in-2011-273176-Nov2011/ 2023: https://www.centralbank.ie/news/article/press-release-central-bank-of-ireland-publishes-fifth-annual-private-motor-insurance-report-of-the-national-claims-information-database-13-dec-2023
Don’t let facts get in the way of a good story!
I wouldn't believe it either, you can prove anything with facts
Yeah I always think the insurance argument is BS 2011 to 2023 everything else has gone up exponentially but my premium hasnt changed much, although the business costs for insurers have to have gone up alot so to be fair the prices arnt going up with inflation so the insurers must be passing on some of the savings.
Prices have stayed more or less the same for drivers with a proven safe track record. The costs are passed to newer drivers as they can't justify someone driving for and paying insurance for 10 years with no incidents ever paying 1000€ and a new driver without experience and record paying 1500. So experienced ones have a relatively lower insurance, 500/800 and newer ones 2000€ and more. Obviously there are other variables but generally it works like that.
€1500? Oh I wish.. €2340 after named driver added… 29 and weeks away from second test. Never had accident or previous insurance
That's why I said 2000 or more for newer drivers. 2000€ being the minimum in some circumstances with only third party coverage and one of those black boxes. When me and my gf were with learner permit all insurances except one were asking 5000€+ for first insurance. Eventually insured it with 123GO , third party only and black box( paid 1900€ 1st year), had to stay 3 years like that. Now for 4th year paid 600€ comprehensive with AXA.
Ahh sorry I miss read. It’s mad what is being asking for. I’m just hoping I can try to negotiate once I get my N. Just feels if insurance is a requirement and they are not competing with each other the government should step in already..
Just out of curiosity, are you negotiating over email or phone? I'd suggest doing it face to face in one of their offices if you can, be nice and humble about it and they can do some magic and take off 100/200€ here and there, that if you're lucky and get an experiened employee. Last year my renewal for AXA was 1100 somehow. I went to to one of their offices and left there paying 600€ only, comprehensive.
is that inflation adjusted?
Nope, I don’t believe so
I'm not sure if you have memory holed the huge price increases in the years immediately following the gender equality legislation, but from 2013 when it came in to 2017, motor insurance had risen 70%. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30747435.html I remember this well because I worked in it. I remember the awkward calls with the guys I had told to think of hold off until after the new year and legislation as they might get a big drop, when their price was essentially the exact same. I remember the standard quotes for young female drives going from the €800-1100 give or take for the standard details, up to €1,800-2,100. I remember the panic attacks and tears they had on the phone to me when it was their only way to get to work/college/etc. I remember fiddling around wherever I could to increase their excess, try the likes of XS Direct (previously more or less exclusively for use by is for 20 year old boy racers in Japanese import tye vehicles), and also warning these people of the risks of extremely high excesses and what different types of protection would entail if they wanted to move to stepback or even no bonus protection to try and be able to keep their job. And I remember having exactly zero answers to explain to them why it had gone up this much, and nobody in the office was able to answer why. 2914 was a fucking horrible start to the new year work wise because of this.
Yes they did increase prices they started hemorrhaging money, they lost 1.1 billion in those 4 years (despite the price raises). It had nothing to do with EU gender equality legislation. https://www.insuranceireland.eu/news-and-publications/news-press-release/statement-on-insurance-ireland-s-2017-factfile-from-2013-2017-irish-insurers-made-underwriting-losses-of-1-1-billion-in-motor-an The market also shrank significantly due to those losses https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1012/1410319-number-of-insurance-firms-here-down-39-since-2009/ It absolutely was not a case of them just flicking a switch and just pricing everyone at the higher rate ‘overnight’. They did aggregate it. Market conditions just led to gradual increases and despite them they still lost money Edit in response to your edit: you worked for a broker, you didn’t underwrite. You sold other companies products. Regardless, the data doesn’t support your position at all
"EU Modernization Compliance Levy" (It'll have nothing to do with the EU but sure...)
Nah bud its gonna be "Due to the cost involved with the digital switchover, on average policy's will increase by 57%, suck it!"
Good one. But yes we should be asking our TDs why it hasn't arrived Also with less uninsured driver lower premiums
Not sure about less uninsured drivers. Might make it easier if they don't need anything in the windscreen. Depends on how well it's policed.
They have plate detection, but people can't report anymore without the windscreen
But they will surly just pin them onto every Garda car and spot immediately by the plate and pull them over. More chance of detection more caught
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, o wait, you're serious, let me laugh even harder.
Yep, and expect "Technology Fee" to replaced it with even more
Ha will believe it when I see it. I still have to use a proprietary card to get the bus and luas
But that's a hugely complicated one to fix and replace...because the right buddy of a TD hasn't applied for the tender yet.
i know its a joke but the tender is already awarded to a spanish company
I just want third party insurance to be government provided :(, they still charge you, just the absolute minimum to break even. Let the insurance companies compete with government prices and other offerings like tpft and full comprehensive but this shite of having to have insurance and then it costing so much you'd be better off just putting it in a bank account and just paying out of that when you get in a crash (unironically on average its like 10->15k)
The 3rd party bit is the most expensive bit of insurance. It makes no sense to have private industry only provide the difference. It would not be worth it for them. When you get deep into risk analysis and look at several criteria, someone who wants comprehensive insurance is much less likely to get into an accident than someone who only wants 3rd party, so actuarially speaking the 3rd party insuree is a much greater risk so at times comp can be cheaper than 3rd party. Risk management is my line of work.
>It makes no sense to have private industry only provide the difference. It would not be worth it for them. This is a good thing. If companies are unable to provide a service people want, then they *should* die. Also should the government be inefficient at providing affordable third party only insurance then the private sector can step in and *actually* reduce costs. It genuinely shouldn't be that hard for the government, they have large reserves, they already have the administration and processes for tax discs the only thing they need to do is handle claims and risk analysis. Which in the beginning could be contracted out.
This is braindead. Nobody WANTS insurance. We buy it to cover perils.
I'm not sure where exactly you think I said insurance didn't cover perils?
Why would you want a governamt scheme to cover 3rd party perils, but then expect the private industry to pick up the the rest? I don’t mean to sound too rude, but you appear to have no idea how insurance actually works. Comp is not an ‘add on’ like breakdown, it’s a risk driver. Anyway, you know as well as I do your stupid idea will never happen. So all is OK.
Because its legally required. Any service that is legally required should be affordable. I don't think you fully understand. The government would be selling third party insurance, same as anyone else, they just aren't profit motivated. Private sector can still sell its current offerings. If its current offerings are uncompetitive then boohoo. If you believe in the private sectors ability to be competitive and are genuinely productive members of society then they should easily beat any offering the government could through sheer feats of efficiency. I mean, that's why most of the world uses capitalism right? Also for your information I did work tangentially to insurance. Working on the systems that manage the quoting and lifecycle of policies, I had to sit through many a lecture on how insurance companies were planning on using new data analysis techniques to improve their earnings.
Brilliant now bring in a direct debt for road tax so I don’t have to shell out a chunk of money every 3-6-12 months
I never knew I wanted this until you said it
The UK have it and i only found out when i was sorting out the V5 cert when i was importing my car.
The UK also got rid of tax discs a few years ago.
The snaky way the UK do it is that the tax doesn’t follow the car when you buy/sell. You apply for a refund when you sell
Thats a bit shit alright
It was 2014. More than a few years ago.. a decade. 😂 Will probably be another 3 years at least before it’s fully implemented in Ireland.
But I think it’s cheaper to shell out in one go there. We live in London and it’s an annual DD rather a monthly or quarterly one. We alwas go for the cheapest option, just like the insurers fuck you by 20% if you want to pay monthly.
> But I think it’s cheaper to shell out in one go there. It's 5% dearer if you pay monthly by direct debit instead of yearly. In Ireland paying quarterly (there's no monthly option) depends on the band but it's usually between 10-13% more expensive than paying yearly.
What's galling is it's currently more expensive over the course of the year if you go for 3 or 6 month discs. They'd have to sort that as well so it's the same price overall regardless.
I look forward to this being implemented in 2048
>Car insurance...... to become a thing of past Almost the headline we all want
Not really. I’m pretty sure I’d take out car insurance whether it was mandatory or not
They couldn't fleece you if you didn't have to have it
I remember one time reading that it wasn't mandatory in like Texas or some other wild west type place. You have to prove that you have the money to cover the cost of a crash if you are found to be at fault. There was some type of audit of your finances that needed to be done, but if you were rich enough you didn't have to have car insurance. Of course I am not rich enough. Haha
The same rule applies in Ireland. You have to be able to demonstrate that you have the finances to cover yourself. But you'd have to be uber rich to do so Afaik Dublin Bus don't have a policy with an insurance company as they state underwrites them.
How many consultants are required for this change and at what cost?
I give in 10 years.
Will the public be able to search for non-compliant cars like [https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/](https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/) and report to the Gardai after this is implemented? Or will the agencies just benefit from lower postage charges? Anything for the consumer?
Why would you need to report it? If it’s all in a database (it is) then the Gardai already know who’s out of date (they do) and they can check using your number plate (they can).
IMO, it would be good supplementary info when reporting (yes, I know they can check it themselves) alleged infringements to the Gardai using dashcam footage. r/irelandsshitedrivers is full of videos of idiots nearly killing people...anything to make the roads safer...
It's actually kind of essential that there is a public method of inputting a reg and getting back the make, tax, NCT and insurance status. And it's perfectly GDPR compliant. If it's the legal duty of the driver to ensure a vehicle is taxed and NCTed before driving it, then how else are the public supposed to do it without access to the database?
Finally!!!
Finally catching up to stuff that other European countries got 25 years ago. Ffs.
Great but I doubt it really costs that much to get the discs out. Probably easier for enforcement if it's all digital
Ireland being paddy last as always. This is 10-15 years behind other countries.
When are they gonna ban cars from the city centre! Destroyed the place!
Digitisation by 2026 So actual date of new system going live: 2046.
They'll find some way to make a hames of this and ride us sideways.
All I've gotten from this is insurance and tax will be gone forever. Time for some free love on the free love freeway.